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FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:28 PM Jun 2014

Sen. Elizabeth Warren's religion is very important to her

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/elizabeth-warren-on-health-care-and-religion/2012/08/23/5c509058-ed6c-11e1-9ddc-340d5efb1e9c_blog.html


On Religious Faith and Public Life


Methodists believe in action. And that’s a part of goodness — a part of worship of God is to act.

I grew up in a Methodist church and I was a Sunday school teacher when we lived back in Texas. When I was making the decision whether to get into this Senate race, one of the important touch points for me was to read my bible. And it’s Matthew 25:40, you know the passage? For me, that passage is the heart of what I believe. Because what it says is “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of these the least of these my bretheren. ...” (I still use the King James version, it’s beautiful).

It says three things: it says there is God in...the hungry, the poor, the stranger, there is God in each of us. Because. Remember, it says “you did it unto me.” And that’s saying God was in, God is in, the poor, the thirsty, the stranger.

But then part two is he never asks the question of going to heaven and hell, what your intent was, the question was: Did you act? And those who gave meat to the hungry, those who gave water to the thirsty, those who welcomed the stranger in, were the ones that God welcomed to heaven. ... It stresses the importance of community, because it says, in fact, it’s about action and it’s about action together.

And that’s how I read Matthew 25:40. And it’s why I’m in this race.
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Sen. Elizabeth Warren's religion is very important to her (Original Post) FrodosPet Jun 2014 OP
But that's not the same as Hillary... SidDithers Jun 2014 #1
because she lives what the rabbi taught. Matthew 25:31-44 roguevalley Jun 2014 #45
"important to me" <> "biggest influence on my thinking" n/t Gore1FL Jun 2014 #68
whoopsie! that'll leave a mark VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #2
Does her religious group support Uganda's 'Kill Gays' law? sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #91
prove it VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #99
Prove what? That Hillary prayed with them? That is not in sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #105
so what she prayyed with them....my FDR grandparents would have prayyed with them too.. VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #106
And I believe her. Sanity Claws Jun 2014 #3
Yeah, surely Jesus wouldn't be a fan of JaneyVee Jun 2014 #4
Yeah, surely Jesus wouldn't have been a fan of ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #6
Probably not, but she does admit her mistake, and JaneyVee Jun 2014 #11
'Awfully sorry I voted to bomb your country back into the stone age.... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #17
Awfully sorry I voted to bomb your country back into the stone age.... The CCC Jun 2014 #38
Everyone voted for it. Blame Bush. JaneyVee Jun 2014 #52
Ah, ignore their votes, and blame the other guy... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #53
It is only redemption if you change and repair what you did. its cheap grace otherwise roguevalley Jun 2014 #47
Human rights? She was on the board of WalMart. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #9
Excellent point. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #10
I know you have your believey's, but please JaneyVee Jun 2014 #12
I'm actually pretty careful about that kind of thing. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #14
Or American slave labor wages. Fuddnik Jun 2014 #34
Haiti is open for Clinton business. Whisp Jun 2014 #76
...says the person using a computer made in China. brooklynite Jun 2014 #100
If you're going to use a painfully stupid argument can you come up with a novel one? See post 14. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #102
So your computer or tablet was made in the US then? LordGlenconner Jun 2014 #108
The thing is... madamesilverspurs Jun 2014 #7
good point barbtries Jun 2014 #13
There ya go, bringing logic and compassion into the argument. intheflow Jun 2014 #43
that might be applicable if she wasn't consistent in her dealings. Her life is a roguevalley Jun 2014 #50
Whoa, take it down a notch. intheflow Jun 2014 #88
first of all, don't tell me what to think or feel You can disagree with me and I welcome roguevalley Jun 2014 #92
And that is the most important point of all zeemike Jun 2014 #55
Ping me when EW says the Bible is the most important book in her life MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #5
^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^ truebrit71 Jun 2014 #18
Who said it was the most important book in their life? Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #30
Hillary. KamaAina Jun 2014 #33
Actually this post said most influence. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #41
No stone will be hurled Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #64
They will be hurled right along with those hurled at any candidate running for the Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #71
It's in Matthew. JoeyT Jun 2014 #39
I think Elizabeth implies that in her quote in the OP hamsterjill Jun 2014 #56
"important to me" <> "biggest influence on my thinking" n/t Gore1FL Jun 2014 #69
What's the objective measure of difference in policy between the two? LanternWaste Jun 2014 #80
Define objective in this context. Gore1FL Jun 2014 #84
First she said she supports Hillary LordGlenconner Jun 2014 #109
Warren seems to practice what she preaches. Whisp Jun 2014 #8
So now Hilliary isn't the right kind of Christian. JoePhilly Jun 2014 #15
ideologues the lot of them VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #20
was it Christian of Hillary to vote for the Iraq war? Whisp Jun 2014 #21
I'm just enjoying the self-righteous mind set that's on display here. JoePhilly Jun 2014 #63
It's the lying about being a christian. Hillary has lied about many things, proven lies. Whisp Jun 2014 #66
Who made you Pope? JoePhilly Jun 2014 #107
+1 My gods, what have we come to? nt Hekate Jun 2014 #23
Her prayer group in Washington was "The Family". Fuddnik Jun 2014 #58
I attended and graduated from a Jesuit University, am I a Catholic? JoePhilly Jun 2014 #65
based on what? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #19
"Hillary the Dominionist and her secret power group" -- that is a filthy accusation. Back it up. nt Hekate Jun 2014 #24
Here is the author of The Family on Rachel Maddow's show: Whisp Jun 2014 #25
I saw this when it was first broadcast, and nowhere is HRC mentioned. I've just looked in the index Hekate Jun 2014 #60
I just posted that they were her prayer group. Fuddnik Jun 2014 #62
A rather good example of seeing only what we wish to, and dismissing those things we'd rather not ex LanternWaste Jun 2014 #82
Wait! I hear the bus! Sorry, Elizabeth! You will be judged and found wanting. freshwest Jun 2014 #16
I wish I could think that you are posting this to show support for Sen Warren in lieu of rhett o rick Jun 2014 #22
Yup. It sure has. And will be just about as effective. Which is not effective. djean111 Jun 2014 #27
I have a lot of respect for Senator Warren FrodosPet Jun 2014 #37
You mean like this guy. Phlem Jun 2014 #48
What you said, FrodosPet :D roguevalley Jun 2014 #51
What does any of this have to do with Edward Snowden? Cali_Democrat Jun 2014 #67
but JI7 Jun 2014 #87
She was also a happy Republican during their most deadly anti gay era Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #26
Hey, I just hate the TPP. djean111 Jun 2014 #28
What's that got to do with what I said? Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #31
I guess I feel that Hillary's bible worship, and the dislike among some for that, djean111 Jun 2014 #32
Christ on a cracker does it get old! Weary of "kissing the ring" pre-campaign speculations, as well. ancianita Jun 2014 #90
No religious test shall Stryst Jun 2014 #29
But people aren't going to stop asking candidates about their faith nxylas Jun 2014 #42
That's why I said Stryst Jun 2014 #44
"As private as their sexuality" nxylas Jun 2014 #54
And no matter who she chooses Stryst Jun 2014 #59
If people go around proclaiming their belief in the great god Ohm... trotsky Jun 2014 #70
Nice. Stryst Jun 2014 #72
I for one am glad you misspelled. :) trotsky Jun 2014 #73
I am too Stryst Jun 2014 #74
What you said Stryst. Phlem Jun 2014 #86
This isnt a two sided mirror, if Hillary is bad for reading the bible and being a Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #35
This isnt a two sided mirror, if Hillary is bad for reading the bible and being a The CCC Jun 2014 #40
Kick and rec! As a Buddhist, I was happy and heartened to receive a mailer from our local Methodist DesertDiamond Jun 2014 #36
I just don't get it. pangaia Jun 2014 #46
What is the problem with reading it? hueymahl Jun 2014 #85
Nothing wrong with reading the bible. pangaia Jun 2014 #89
Ha - Good Point! hueymahl Jun 2014 #98
THANK YOU Skittles Jun 2014 #94
The Republican Bible says " if you meet a man with no shirt take his shoes and make a tidy profit at geretogo Jun 2014 #49
Methodists are Cool Stallion Jun 2014 #57
Since we have no way of knowing another person's heart... hamsterjill Jun 2014 #61
This is the one subject that makes some DU'ers heads explode Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #103
Yes, I see that, too, at times here. hamsterjill Jun 2014 #104
Amazing how some people are twisting themselves into knots to defend Warren, while joeybee12 Jun 2014 #75
there is a Huge difference between Warren and Hillary. Whisp Jun 2014 #77
Yeah, right... joeybee12 Jun 2014 #78
I expect Warren not to jeopardize her political career Whisp Jun 2014 #83
Ok. yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #101
Absolutely agree. hamsterjill Jun 2014 #79
I'm waiting for the day Elizabeth shows up at a campaign stop to show joeybee12 Jun 2014 #81
you do not need religion to do good things Skittles Jun 2014 #93
And you can do it WITH the church involved as well FrodosPet Jun 2014 #96
it's not cool to think religion is necessary to treat people right, either Skittles Jun 2014 #97
Well there goes the neighborhood AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #95

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
45. because she lives what the rabbi taught. Matthew 25:31-44
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:23 PM
Jun 2014

My mom was a methodist and lived the love of God everyday for everyone. I knew I loved her and now its off the scale.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
91. Does her religious group support Uganda's 'Kill Gays' law?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:12 AM
Jun 2014

See it isn't about the person, it IS about their associations which raise questions about THEIR beliefs. Eg, would you pray with people who supported the death penalty for Gays? Would Elizabeth Warren? HAS Elizabeth? Would Hillary? HAS Hillary prayed with them? I don't know so I'm asking, because that IS important, don't you think?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
99. prove it
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:58 AM
Jun 2014

She is not Seven Mountains by the way..... Nor Dominionist.

But again prove this statement....please try. I need the laugh. By the way my grandparents were staunch Democrats and Christians.....good luck trying.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
105. Prove what? That Hillary prayed with them? That is not in
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:47 AM
Jun 2014

question. What is in question is just how much influence this shadowy Right Wing organization has on those who pray with them. From the list that is available of those who pray with them, they are mostly right wing Republicans and couple of Blue Dogs who support Republican policies.

So exactly what is it you want proof of?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
106. so what she prayyed with them....my FDR grandparents would have prayyed with them too..
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:15 PM
Jun 2014

I have even bowwed my head and closed my eyes when actual Dominionist Southern Baptists prayyed. So what.

Sanity Claws

(21,846 posts)
3. And I believe her.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:30 PM
Jun 2014

Her actions are consistent with her belief.
I had problems with Hillary Clinton's statements because her actions were not consistent with her stated belief.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
6. Yeah, surely Jesus wouldn't have been a fan of
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:39 PM
Jun 2014

voting to go to war with an innocent country who had nothing to do with the reason we were going to war.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
11. Probably not, but she does admit her mistake, and
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:48 PM
Jun 2014

If there's one thing Jesus was a fan of, it is forgiveness.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
17. 'Awfully sorry I voted to bomb your country back into the stone age....
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:09 PM
Jun 2014

....but my mythical sky daddy is all okay with it!!'

The CCC

(463 posts)
38. Awfully sorry I voted to bomb your country back into the stone age....
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:05 PM
Jun 2014

Glad to see you have your pile of stones ready to throw.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
47. It is only redemption if you change and repair what you did. its cheap grace otherwise
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:24 PM
Jun 2014

she doesn't seem to have changed in my opinion and that is why she is different from warren

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
9. Human rights? She was on the board of WalMart.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
Jun 2014

You don't get to pretend to give a shit about human rights while making money off of Chinese slave labor.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
12. I know you have your believey's, but please
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:51 PM
Jun 2014

Check the tags on your clothing, shoes, electronics before taking the higher moral ground. I despise Walmart, but it doesn't negate her global campaign of human rights.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
14. I'm actually pretty careful about that kind of thing.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:57 PM
Jun 2014

I try to have as much impact as I can with my purchasing decisions, but I don't have as much impact as somebody say, on the board of WalMart.

You're right, supporting offshoring and free trade policies is totally the same thing as buying underpants.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
34. Or American slave labor wages.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:56 PM
Jun 2014

I'll write in Mickey Mouse before I ever vote for Hillary Clinton.

No Walmart directors in the White House.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
76. Haiti is open for Clinton business.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:16 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.globalresearch.ca/haiti-open-for-business-sourcing-slave-labor-for-u-s-based-companies/5327292

Haiti “Open for Business”: Sourcing Slave Labor for U.S.-Based Companies


See this great photos of the wonderful benefactors high above the working poor:


“We supported the Caracol Park because we knew it was going to be an extraordinary thing for the north,” then-Social Affairs Minister Josépha Raymond Gauthier told Haiti Grassroots Watch (HGW). “The park will allow us to ‘decentralize’ the country and create a northern ‘pole.’ It will also give people jobs in an extraordinary way!”

But a two-month investigation by HGW discovered that the number of jobs in the north is not yet “extraordinary,” and that many other promises have not yet been kept.

One year after it started operations, only 1,388 people work in the park; 26 of them are foreigners, and another 24 are security guards. Also, HGW research among a sampling of workers found that, at the end of the day, most have only 57 gourdes, or US$1.36, in hand after paying for transportation and food out of their 200 gourdes minimum wage (US$4.75) salary.

HGW also learned that most of the farmers kicked off the land to make way for the industrial park are still without land.

madamesilverspurs

(15,800 posts)
7. The thing is...
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:40 PM
Jun 2014

very few humans can claim actions that are 100% consistent with their stated belief. For that reason I try very hard to avoid holding anyone ANYONE to a higher moral standard than I apply to myself. Most certainly my life could not withstand the scrutiny endured by those seeking office.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
50. that might be applicable if she wasn't consistent in her dealings. Her life is a
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:27 PM
Jun 2014

long trip through the gutter of crap called commerce and three way politics. When she really changes I will be glad if not for anything but her soul. Admitting a 'mistake' doesn't bring back the dead or heal the wounded. so what. When it was after the war turned into the clusterfuck that I in Alaska with a computer and a modem could see before it began is saying you goofed contrition, explanation or absolution? it isn't.

intheflow

(28,462 posts)
88. Whoa, take it down a notch.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:17 PM
Jun 2014

I am not a Hillary supporter. I thought political dynasties were what we fought independence from. Her alleged upcoming candidacy spits in the face of that legacy.

However, I can also acknowledge she's a human being, driven by all kinds of forces in her life. People do what they can with what they got, for good and bad. No one in 21st century America can lead a pure life, or live by their ideals 100% of the time.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
92. first of all, don't tell me what to think or feel You can disagree with me and I welcome
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:08 AM
Jun 2014

that but I don't think I need you to tell me to shut up essentially about what I feel.

No one is saying live a perfect life. I just see a pattern of taking care of number one all along the way. You are what you do. Words are cheap. She has shown me by her works what she is and what matters to her.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
55. And that is the most important point of all
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:35 PM
Jun 2014

being consistent with your belief.
Talk is cheep and easy...but action is evidence.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
5. Ping me when EW says the Bible is the most important book in her life
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:39 PM
Jun 2014

Or when we unearth the part where Jesus praises the money changers, does whatever they ask of him, and preaches to the Jews that being against the money changers helps nothing.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
41. Actually this post said most influence.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

Guess we can kill two birds with one stone here, Hillary and Elizabeth.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
64. No stone will be hurled
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:52 PM
Jun 2014

in EW's general direction.

Most assuredly, there will be no ridicule for the fact that she even has religious beliefs.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
39. It's in Matthew.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:06 PM
Jun 2014

Jesus charged the money changers ten thousand silver to speak at their dinner where he told them "All that meek stuff? That's just populist rhetoric to please the masses. You guys know I'm totally on your side."

The bible isn't the magic belief Clinton holds that I object to. It's the neo-liberal free trade and deregulation of the financial sector brings prosperity cult that I want no part of.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
56. I think Elizabeth implies that in her quote in the OP
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:41 PM
Jun 2014

She is a Christian. She is a believer. Certainly as a Christian and a believer, the bible would be very important to her.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
80. What's the objective measure of difference in policy between the two?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jun 2014

What's the objective measure of difference in policy between the two, and on what is that measure based on?

Gore1FL

(21,127 posts)
84. Define objective in this context.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:23 PM
Jun 2014

The difference I discern in the two are:

"I use made-up bullshit on which to base my decisions."
vs
"The ritual going to church is something I enjoy."

The first is a travesty, the other is merely a waste of time.

 

LordGlenconner

(1,348 posts)
109. First she said she supports Hillary
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:27 PM
Jun 2014

Now she admits she has god in her life.

By my count she's on strike 2 of your ideological purity smell test.

Who will be the next FOM after she falls from your favor?

I can't wait to find out.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
8. Warren seems to practice what she preaches.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:40 PM
Jun 2014

She is much closer to the original idea of what a Christian is than Hillary the Dominionist and her secret power group.

Warren has demonstrated that she cares about the least among us, Hillary cares about the most in her bank account and how she can capitalize on the least among us for her personal power.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
15. So now Hilliary isn't the right kind of Christian.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:02 PM
Jun 2014

At first it was "Hillary is pushing Christianity".

Now, she's the wrong kind.

I think its pretty silly when the right wing claims they are the arbiter of who the good Christians are.

Its just as silly when the left does it.

First Hillary was "bad" for saying the bible is the most important book in her life ... how DARE she push Christianity.

Wait what? Warren said something similar??

Well clearly Warren means it ... and Hillary ... well, she wasn't pushing Christianity, no no, now she doesn't act like the right kind of Christian.

Its Hilarious.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
21. was it Christian of Hillary to vote for the Iraq war?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:16 PM
Jun 2014

or how about that massive lie about Tuzla? Does she belong to that convenient part of christianity where whatever you say and do you are forgiven, so say and do whatever you please?

what would Warren have done in the same circumstance - of course we can't know but I have a hunch how Warren would have voted.

Comparing Warren and Hillary as equal in any way is wrong.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
63. I'm just enjoying the self-righteous mind set that's on display here.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:49 PM
Jun 2014

I'm particularly impressed with how you just "hunched" your way into claiming Warren is a better Christian than Hillary.

As an agnostic/athiest type, I'm generally not interested in who the better Christian is. But I am entertained by those who think they sit in judgement on such matters.

Usually, I see this behavior on display from the right, not the left.

And again, the thing I found particularly funny was how the attack on Hillary has gone from "she's pushing Christianity down our throats" to "she's not the right kind of Christian", once it became clear Warren had made similar remarks.

First Hillary is too Christian, then hours later, not Christian enough.

Sitting in judgement is hard work.



 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
66. It's the lying about being a christian. Hillary has lied about many things, proven lies.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:57 PM
Jun 2014

lying and using your faith to promote your self interests is repugnant when the RW do it and when anyone does it.

so I don't find it self righteous to point this out, at all. We have seen enough of that from the RW, and to expect that no one on the supposed left or centre could possibly use the same tactics, that seem to work on far too many, is naive.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
107. Who made you Pope?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jun 2014

Again, I'm amazed by anyone who thinks they sit I'm judgement over who is really a Christian.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
58. Her prayer group in Washington was "The Family".
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:42 PM
Jun 2014

With the likes of Tom Coburn, Jim DeMint, among others. People who believe they are god appointed to be our betters.
Founded as a support group for rich people who needed comforting during labor strikes.

Good credentials for a Walmart director.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
65. I attended and graduated from a Jesuit University, am I a Catholic?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jun 2014

For a number of years, I attended, and played basketball, for a baptist Church, am I a Baptist?

I married a Methodist woman, and we joined her church shortly after, am I a Methodist?

Well?

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
24. "Hillary the Dominionist and her secret power group" -- that is a filthy accusation. Back it up. nt
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:29 PM
Jun 2014
 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
25. Here is the author of The Family on Rachel Maddow's show:
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:34 PM
Jun 2014


Hillary is not mentioned here but she is in his book as being a member. She also has some really high compliments for Doug Coe, the leader, which she writes about in one of her books. He is as scary a fuck as there could be. Find out more about this blight of a person and judge for yourself.

There is a lot of info on this around DU now - a lot of which just can't be thrown into the conspiracy nutjob basket and be rid of.

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
60. I saw this when it was first broadcast, and nowhere is HRC mentioned. I've just looked in the index
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jun 2014

... of HRC's book "Living History" published in 2003. Mention of Coe is on page 168, in the Vince Foster chapter. The chapter covers: grief over death of her father, invasion of privacy within the family rooms of the WH, a "pitiless season in Washington," HRC "sustained by family friends, and faith."

On personal faith, pg. 167: "My religious faith has always been a crucial part of my life. Until he had his fatal stroke, my father knelt by his bed to say his prayers every night. And i shared his belief in the power and importance of prayer. I've often told audiences that if I hadn't believed in prayer before 1992, life in the White House would have persuaded me." >snip<
&quot My good friend Linda Lader) invited Tipper and me to a luncheon sponsored by a women's prayer group that included Democrats and Republicans..." (women who prayed with her, sent her Scripture readings, remained friends)

pg. 168: "The lunch on February 24, 1993, was held at the Cedars, an estate on the Potomac that serves as headquarters for the National Prayer Breakfast and the prayer groups it has spawned around the world Doug Coe, the longtime National Prayer Breakfast organizer, is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God and offer the gift of service to others in need. Doug became a source of strength and friendship, and, too, often sent me notes of support. All these relationships began at that extraordinary lunch."

And that's it. Twenty-two years ago she was in desperate need of human friendship and spiritual relief at a time when the Clintons were under relentless attack and she was in grief over the death of her father and the suicide of a friend. The women's prayer group provided that, and from there she met the founder of the Prayer Breakfast, who we know is someone who exudes a certain kind of persona.

The questions I would ask today, 22 years later, are these: Has Hillary seen Rachel Maddow's interview with Jeff Sharlett or read his book? Has she done any independent investigation to determine to her own satisfaction if Sharlett's research is true? (I'm sure it is true, but I'd like to know about HRC.) Has she maintained a relationship with Coe or any significant member of his group since then? If she no longer has a relationship, when did she cease, and why? Is she prepared to oppose the machinations of this group when it appears to be machinating?

My ballot for 2016 is not filled in -- I'm not coming at this from the standpoint of "Hillary's the One and Only." But I do see her as a woman who has spent her lifetime in genuine public service, bent on social justice. I need a lot more evidence than the slurs currently being thrown about here on DU before I change my mind about her character.

Those are relevant questions today. 22 years ago, what could any of us have known about what The Family was up to?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
82. A rather good example of seeing only what we wish to, and dismissing those things we'd rather not ex
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jun 2014

A rather good example of seeing only what we wish to, and dismissing those things we'd rather not examine...

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
16. Wait! I hear the bus! Sorry, Elizabeth! You will be judged and found wanting.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:07 PM
Jun 2014

People worship their strawdogs, then celebrate discarding them.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
22. I wish I could think that you are posting this to show support for Sen Warren in lieu of
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:17 PM
Jun 2014

mocking her supporters. Looks like the Hate Snowden Crowd has turned on Sen Warren.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
37. I have a lot of respect for Senator Warren
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:03 PM
Jun 2014

What she says she gets from her faith is what I respect about it, even if I don't follow with the supernatural parts of it.

And it is why I am frustrated by the arrogant atheists who automatically attack followers of religion as being backwards or uncaring, just because there are a few highly visible ones who are like that.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
26. She was also a happy Republican during their most deadly anti gay era
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jun 2014

She is just another straight of privilege, not the standard by which to judge others. She and Hillary have both been very comfortable with extremely bigoted political groups and people. Warren was a Southern Strategy Republican, during their attack on LGBT.
All the Straights like to claim they are holy persons, their relationships are 'Sacraments' and other people are not really human beings, just objects to be mistreated at the will of the Supreme Christian Straights.

It really gets old, all of this. Are there no Democrats who do not have a history of Republicanism and homophobia? Who are not associated with vicious clerics and right wing hate mongers? Can we nominate one of those, please?

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
28. Hey, I just hate the TPP.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:44 PM
Jun 2014

I have a feeling that supporting the TPP will be the next boulder that Sisyphus tries to push up the DU hill.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
31. What's that got to do with what I said?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:50 PM
Jun 2014

That sort of comment is dismissive of the important issues spoken of.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
32. I guess I feel that Hillary's bible worship, and the dislike among some for that,
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:54 PM
Jun 2014

is going to be used as a straw man to encompass all dislike of Hillary as a candidate.
The TPP is one of my big reasons. The bible thing is just distasteful to me.

Stryst

(714 posts)
29. No religious test shall
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:44 PM
Jun 2014

Ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

With hat said, I surely wish that every (nearly) politician in America didn't feel the need to espouse or explain their religious views every election cycle. I wouldn't care if she worshiped the great god Ohm as long as the church/state barrier stays rigidly intact.

nxylas

(6,440 posts)
42. But people aren't going to stop asking candidates about their faith
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:15 PM
Jun 2014

And if you're a campaigning politician, answering "that's none of your business" to pretty much any question is a surefire way to appear shifty and evasive.

Stryst

(714 posts)
44. That's why I said
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:22 PM
Jun 2014

"I wish". I wish for a lot of things that'll never hapen. And I know that it's a personal quirk, but I just think that religiosity should be as private as sexuality, and just as rude to ask about. But I'm a godless heathan, so, you knpw, grain of salt and all that.

nxylas

(6,440 posts)
54. "As private as their sexuality"
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jun 2014

Well, you'll get your wish in a way, since neither is likely to be off-limits. I expect the insinuations about Hillary Clinton's alleged lesbian affair to resurface once she declares her candidacy, to make conservative men all hot and sweaty once again.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
70. If people go around proclaiming their belief in the great god Ohm...
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:07 PM
Jun 2014

they might encounter some resistance.

Stryst

(714 posts)
74. I am too
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:14 PM
Jun 2014

This actualy cheered me up as I sit waiting in my neurologists office. The coldest and most boringest place on earth.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
35. This isnt a two sided mirror, if Hillary is bad for reading the bible and being a
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:58 PM
Jun 2014

Methodist then Elizabeth Warren is also bad. They have both been Republican though Hillary has been a Democrat much longer than Warren. All of this needless ranting is wrong, there has not been anything posted here which would discredit either person based on their religious background. Occasionally look for something good.

The CCC

(463 posts)
40. This isnt a two sided mirror, if Hillary is bad for reading the bible and being a
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:09 PM
Jun 2014

It has been said that your politics is just your actual beliefs in action.

DesertDiamond

(1,616 posts)
36. Kick and rec! As a Buddhist, I was happy and heartened to receive a mailer from our local Methodist
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:59 PM
Jun 2014

church about their Change the World campaign, the slogan for which is "Put your beliefs into action and get involved." I am much more encouraged by this than by other local churches, who seem to only be interested in getting us to say that Jesus is our savior. Those churches do support the local food bank, at which starving people have to listen to a sermon about Jesus before receiving any help. I love Jesus' teachings, but I only recall him saying that we should be helping the suffering, not that we should help them only if they agree with our beliefs.

Kudos to Senator Warren - no surprise that she's a member of a church that's true to Jesus' teachings.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
46. I just don't get it.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:23 PM
Jun 2014

Why does one have to go read the bible to know how to behave toward other human beings?

This is not about Elizabeth Warren or any individual in particular.
it is about anybody.

I mean WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Duh !!

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
85. What is the problem with reading it?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:32 PM
Jun 2014

Even for "devout" Atheists, the bible can be a source of philosophical inspiration, just like Plato, Socrates, Ghandi and great poets, philosophers and thinkers throughout history.

She doesn't say, "the bible says it, so it must be true". She picks one passage that inspires her. Why the concern?

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
89. Nothing wrong with reading the bible.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:35 PM
Jun 2014

But, how often have you heard a politician say they have read 'Plato, Socrates, Ghandi and great poets, philosophers and thinkers throughout history?'

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
98. Ha - Good Point!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:50 AM
Jun 2014

l seem to recall Clinton referencing other philosophers, but I can't give you a link and I may not be remembering correctly.

You sure as heck didn't see shrub or Romney reference those guys!

geretogo

(1,281 posts)
49. The Republican Bible says " if you meet a man with no shirt take his shoes and make a tidy profit at
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:26 PM
Jun 2014

the free market price and then praise the Lord " .

Stallion

(6,474 posts)
57. Methodists are Cool
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:42 PM
Jun 2014

even in the South you don't see many whaco Methodist preachers

Hillary and Warren are great examples

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
61. Since we have no way of knowing another person's heart...
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jun 2014

I will take both Elizabeth AND Hillary at their word. Many people keep their faith very private. I do that myself. My faith is something very important to me, but I don't come to DU to argue it or force it on anyone; therefore, I rarely speak of it.



Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
103. This is the one subject that makes some DU'ers heads explode
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jun 2014

The obsession with faith/religion by those who say they have none.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
104. Yes, I see that, too, at times here.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

There's almost a compulsion sometimes on DU to argue "I'm right" to try to sway someone to think like they do, and that's not necessary where a belief system is being discussed.

I'm comfortable with my own set of beliefs and comfortable that anyone else can believe as I do or believe otherwise. It's an individual's choice.

But I do get a little annoyed sometimes at posts that openly make fun of anyone who DOES have a set of beliefs. I feel that's just another form of bullying by someone who may not quite be secure in THEIR own beliefs.

Someone can simply say "I choose not to believe" rather than mockingly saying "yeah, like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny", etc. (which I've seen multiple times on DU). The fact of the matter is that NONE of us really know. We choose to believe through faith, or choose not to believe. But no one KNOWS and it's rude in my opinion to mock those that choose to believe. Just as I cannot "prove" that there is a higher power, a non-believer cannot "prove" that there isn't.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
75. Amazing how some people are twisting themselves into knots to defend Warren, while
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:14 PM
Jun 2014

chastising Hilary, and no, there is no substantial difference what the two ladies said, and so fucking what anyway...they are both free to believe what they want to, and anyone who thinks a politician WILL NOT bring up religion and its influence while campaigning is delusional.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
77. there is a Huge difference between Warren and Hillary.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:19 PM
Jun 2014

in honesty and commitment to the American people.

If this were the only thing to point out about Hillary in a negative way, I would pass but there is so much baggage, so many previous acts and gaffes and down right lies and piss poor judgements...

Sorry, Warren is not that kind of person that Hillary is and it doesn't take a professional profiler to figure that out.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
78. Yeah, right...
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:27 PM
Jun 2014

Like I said, some people are twisting themselves into knots over this...it's just another chance to bash Hilary and says way more about the bashers than about Hilary. You don't have to be a Hilary foe to see the ridiculousnes and total lack of rational thought into a lot of these posts.

And what will you be doing when Elizabteh shows up at campagn stops showing her support for Hilary?

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
83. I expect Warren not to jeopardize her political career
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jun 2014

and talking shit about the Clintons will kill her career instantly.

Of course she will and should support Hillary if that dreaded day does come around.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
101. Ok.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:37 AM
Jun 2014

I like both Warren and Clinton. However, Warren at this point has had it a little easier. She was not in the Senate when the vote for war was on the table so we don't really know how she would have voted. Warren's husband was not President so she doesn't have the "well since Hillary's husband passed it, Hillary is guilty" constant discussions. I think they both are terrific but comparisons are a bit dishonest.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
79. Absolutely agree.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:33 PM
Jun 2014

I don't like the sentiment that I currently see on DU, being Hillary VERSUS Elizabeth.

Why does it have to be one or the other? When Elizabeth has already as much as endorsed Hillary.

Let's be happy that we have TWO great minded female politicians and quit trying to make Hillary into the Sarah Palin of the Democratic party. Hillary is brilliant, political savvy, and we could all do a helluva lot worse.

Elizabeth is all of those things as well. She's just newer to the game and needs some more time to get her feet wet.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
81. I'm waiting for the day Elizabeth shows up at a campaign stop to show
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jun 2014

her support for Hilary...heads will explode! And then when Hilary is Prez, she shows up in Mass to lend her supprot to Liz's re-election!

Skittles

(153,147 posts)
93. you do not need religion to do good things
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:20 AM
Jun 2014

you can actually feed and clothe people and care about them without church being involved

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
96. And you can do it WITH the church involved as well
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:42 AM
Jun 2014

But it is really not cool to see Christians as anything less than Jesus' own American Taliban or as slack jawed yokels who think the world is flat.

Skittles

(153,147 posts)
97. it's not cool to think religion is necessary to treat people right, either
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:47 AM
Jun 2014

it is downright insulting

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