Okay, this is REALLY messed up- refuse to hand over your FB password? You are FIRED!

[BeHereNow]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/grade-school-teacher-aide-fired-refusing-hand-over-172305406.html

"Kimberly Hester, a grade school teacher's aide in Michigan, was fired for refusing to hand over her Facebook password to her supervisors. Hester posted a picture of a co-workers' shoes and pants bunched around her ankles on Facebook in April 2011 with the caption, "Thinking of you." She posted the picture in jest, but a parent who's on her Facebook friend list saw the image and reported it to Frank Squires Elementary where Hester was employed, prompting the investigation."

I hope she sues the hell out of that district.

BHN

[alphafemale]

1. Shadow account.

Plenty of people have them.

[MadHound]

4. Don't have an account period,

Facebook is not some benign entity enabling people to mix and mingle on line. It is a ruthless business engaged in making money by selling personal information. Sure, a shadow account will work for now, but in a few years expect an upgrade that will tie you to whatever shadow account you have.

The best way to handle this is to opt out of everything Facebook. If you want to keep in touch with people, email, snail mail, phone are the best bets.

[FreakinDJ]

5. We can count on you to defend the 1st amendment

[MadHound]

7. Not sure I get your point, can you make it a bit clearer? n/t

[FreakinDJ]

13. The school district is intimidating her from practicing her right to free speech

you are simularly advising against her Right to practice Free speech

and I am well aware of what Facebook and countless other corporations do. That is not the point.

[ladjf]

18. Would you forfeit your job over this issue? Might be hard to support your family with no job. nt

[derby378]

20. The tree of liberty...

...must be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Besides, Facebook specifically prohibits you from divulging your password, right? Just tell you boss he's breaking the law if he demands your password and show him a copy of the Facebook Terms and Conditions. And have an attorney's number on speeddial.

[ladjf]

25. The school system most definitely has no right, legal or otherwise to access ones personal

documents. That is not the issue. Yes, one might beat the school in a court of law. But, that's
a protracted and slippery slope for anyone who isn't wealthy.

I will be more specific with my question. If you were the sole bread winner, married with children
and have modest savings, would you put yourself on the unemployed list, placing your family is serious financial jeopardy, just in the brave hopes that you would be successful in beating the system?

If your answer is yes, that is your decision. I would pull for you and your people while you were engaged in the legal battle.

[Doremus]

30. If there were more people w the courage of their convictions America would be in far better shape.

The "I got mine so tough noogies to you" attitude that has permeated society (aka I'm the breadwinner with mouths to feed, yadda yadda) will be our undoing.

I, for one, do not question anyone who stands up to power, I just thank dog they do.

[FreakinDJ]

43. Why not ? I work contract to contract as it is now

put my job on the line for a lot less

[Warpy]

9. One thing that makes me crazy is how businesses

have largely tied themselves to FB. If you want information about products or if you want to contact them, you're forced to sign up for that service.

Uh, no thanks. I rejected FB a couple of years ago because I didn't like their Swiss cheese security.

Oh, and giving an employer one's password? That's like allowing a video camera in your bedroom and allowing them to fit you with a wire to tape all your conversations ever day. Some things belong to private lives and social media are one of those things.

And yes, I hope she sues the hell out of them and that this policy is stopped dead in its tracks.

[jp11]

17. That I'm sure is part of the FB 'contract'

setup services/deals/etc with FB and only FB or we won't let you gain access to our millions of 'clients' and all the information we collect about them as they hand over detail and detail of their lives, interests, shopping trends, etc.

As someone who has never had a FB account I find more and more things are FB only and companies I had relationships with jumped onto the FB boat sharing my and other customers information with them I'm sure. So while I don't have a FB account FB has some of my information through all their partnership deals and just about anyone else that does things online with any of their partners.

[LanternWaste]

54. I imagine your position would be the same

I imagine your position would be the same should your employers ask for your DU login and password, yes?

If nothing else, at least non-DUers could also righteously proclaim, "Don't have an account period..."

[Justice wanted]

23. Facebook deletes those once they find out about them. Friend used her maiden name instead of

her married name. Her account was closed when someone posted a picture on their acount with her married name.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

2. As long as it is not public...

...and she isn't having inappropriate relationships with her students, they really can't do this. Regardless of if she says where she is employed, she is allowed to have a life outside of school. That is just ridiculous.

[BeHereNow]

10. So true- her private life is just that- PRIVATE.

The parent who brought her personal life to the attention
of the district violated her trust and privacy and is an ASSHOLE-
I hope FB kicks the parent off of their site.

BHN

[FBaggins]

14. Hmm... That's an interesting perspective.

I infer from the story that she took a photo of another woman in a restroom stall and posted it in public.

I'm not sure that she's safe from civil/criminal prosecution... But I am sure that she doesn't have a hypocritical leg to stand on whining about her private life.

[NoMoreWarNow]

24. If the person's face wasn't shown or the identity was not clear, then it's harmless and there's no

reason for the school to ask for her info. It's insane.

[FBaggins]

26. I disagree.

You can't take a photo of a person in the restroom and call it "harmless".

Now... the employer's "right" to investigate is questionable (though if it's the school restroom that too might be different)... but I certainly wouldn't want her teaching my kids. That level of poor judgement usually isnt isolated to a single incident.

A teen taking photos over the tops of bathroom stalls and posting them online would be suspended... wouldnt they?

[Justice wanted]

31. From what I'm understanding it's no different than someone looking down at the stall space to see

that the stall is occupied.

[Snake Alchemist]

32. What if the shoes or skirt is easily identifiable? nt

[Justice wanted]

35. IT WAS A PAIR OF PANTS and REALLY can you figure out who the person is just by a pair of pants and

shoes?

[Snake Alchemist]

37. of my coworkers, yes. nt

[FBaggins]

44. Especially if you so label it.

If you post it to the target of the photo, people don't have to guess very hard.

If the photo that has been released is accurate, the shoes most certainly are identifiable. And from the reporting you can see that they know who the target is.

If the photo was taken without permission, this could very well be a felony.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. It was given to her by the co-worker, and posted with permission

Hester, 27, was a full-time peer professional, or teacher's aide, at Frank Squires Elementary in Cassapolis, Mich. for about two years. A year ago, in April 2011, a coworker texted a photo showing herself with her pants around her ankles, with the message "thinking of you" as a joke.

"She's actually quite funny. It was spur of the moment," adding that there was nothing pornographic about the picture, which only showed the pants, part of her legs, and the tips of her shoes.

"I couldn't stop laughing so I asked for her permission to post it (on Facebook)," she said. The coworker agreed. Hester said all this took place on their own time, not at or during work.

Hester said a parent (not of one of her students) showed the photo to the superintendent, calling it unprofessional and offensive. Hester said the photo could only be viewed by her Facebook friends. The parent happened to be a family friend.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/michigan-teacher-disciplined-providing-access-facebook-page/story?id=16056231#.T3rPbKjaKSo

So this is nothing to do with privacy. It's about whether a family 'friend' (some friend, I'd say, if they complain to the school about this) has the right to demand school action about what a private group sees from a school employee, and whether the school has the right to regulate out-of-school behaviour of that type.

[FBaggins]

49. Good... then at least it isn't illegal.

Tasteless... but not illegal.

Your link also fleshes out the story some. She wasn't fired (though the friend who did take the photo resigned). Nor was she asked for her password, she was asked to show them her facebook page. Less intrusive, though still questionable.

The refusal to allow union representation at the meeting and her later treatment seem more offensive to me than asking to see a facebook account.

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. The 'tasteless' part is subjective

Her later treatment would probably be called 'constructive dismissal' in the UK - bullying and unreasonable behaviour to coerce the person into quitting. And what they did to the co-worker in the photo also sounds like constructive dismissal (who, of course, couldn't grant access to the private group anyway).

[WillowTree]

21. Actually, they can. Michigan is an "employment at will" state.

They can fire her for any non-discriminatory reason.

[1monster]

36. I do believe that even in "at will" states, if an employer fires an employee "for cause" and

that cause is protected, for example, free speech or labor rights issues, the employee can legally sue the pants off the employer... and can win.

[FBaggins]

42. There is no free speech issue here.

And you most certainly can fire someone for things that we would consider free speech. The first amendment keeps the government to silencing you... It doesn't require your employer to continue your employment.

[Angleae]

46. Except her employer is the goverment.

Lewis Cass Intermediate School District.

[1monster]

51. I only used "free speech" as an example. There are other protected things

for which employers are prohibited from firing employees; things that may be revealed on facebook, even...

[teddy51]

3. I hope she contacts Facebook cause I think they are looking for a test case like this. n/t

[BeHereNow]

6. Agree! I hope they help her lawyer up ($$$$)

I also hope the parent who "alerted" on her is identified.
What a jerk.

BHN

[rsmith6621]

8. This Is Why.......

The name on my Facebook page is spelled phonetically and my city is the nearest metro city I live next to. Also I keep my images to a minimum.

Heaven forbid they find it I speak strong political opinion...so if they were to ASK I just say no I don't have a Facebook account, next question..

[RebelOne]

12. That was my thought.

If asked, I would say I did not have a Facebook account. I don't have anything to worry about now as I am not working any longer. But that would be my response if I was asked for my password.

[slampoet]

40. and legally that is true because Facebook hosts the info...

so how can you HAVE something that isn't on your computer?

[Shankapotomus]

11. Ask for their password.

If they ask for your password just say "sure" but tell them you are also particular about who you work for and will be needing the passwords to the facebook accounts of the president and chief officers of the company as well as the interviewer's. If they don't comply ask them what are they hiding?

[Kencorburn]

15. Fourth Amendment

I have to wonder if this is a Fourth Amendment issue also, if this was a public school.

[Chemisse]

16. Is it illegal to take a picture of someone in a bathroom stall and post it?

Probably not, if the person was not photographed in the nude, but it certainly could be considered workplace harassment. I think this is worthy of investigation, but asking for her Facebook password was probably not the best way to approach it.

[FBaggins]

45. In Michigan, yes.

I think that people are getting caught up in the Facebook side of the story... And ignoring what led up to it.

If you read a story about someone taking photos of people in the bathroom and sticking them up on the breakroom wall... You probably would have a different reaction than what we've seen so far.

[Canuckistanian]

19. Giving others your FB password is a violation of the TOS agreement

And FB has made it clear that it disapproves, up to the point of legal action. Not because of the member that gave the password, but for the friends of that member.

If FB loses privacy confidence, it could mean the loss of MILLIONS of dollars of potential personal data.

And we can't have that, can we?

[Aerows]

22. Solution

Don't use Facebook. I wouldn't if my life depended upon it, and it looks more obviously every day that it does.

[Skittles]

27. I agree

and I gotta tell you, seeing a LIKE US ON FACEBOOK! sign in a restaurant toilet stall wall made me SO happy with my decision to have NOTHING TO DO with that piece of SHIT site

[MADem]

28. Why people would go near that Facebook using their own name is beyond me. nt

[Orrex]

29. I agree. That's why I only post using your name.

And some of the stuff that you've post is waaaaay over the top.

[MADem]

38. Oooooh! I'll have to return the favor!

I was using dead film stars' names!

[LiberalFighter]

33. I'm wondering how the school considers this different from

1) handing over the keys to the teacher's home or car?
2) allowing access to their bank or credit cards?
3) who they vote for in the general election?
4) providing church attendance records and tithing amounts?
5) requiring a daily log on the tv shows watched?
6) providing if they are using birth control?

[jmowreader]

34. Shh...

Those things are next, starting with number four.

[MADem]

39. Number Four is the Law of the Land in Germany, you know.

If you are a member of a church, you put it on your tax form and the state takes out the money from your income and gives it to the church. They do it in other countries, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Not the same

The person can say 'no church', and that's the end of the matter. You only give the name of the church you attend if you want to give money to it.

[Johnny Rico]

41. Reason #749 why I don't have a Facebook account (or anything like it).

[randome]

52. Because you might accidentally post an embarrassing picture?

Seriously, why are people so holier-than-thou about Facebook? Don't use it if you don't want to but why disparage people who do?

It's the younger generation's means of communication. And many other people's. They don't need our approval.

[Johnny Rico]

53. No, I simply don't use *any* of the social media.

Don't use it if you don't want to but why disparage people who do?

How does expressing my dislike of Facebook disparage anyone?