If Hillary is the nominee I will of course vote for her, so should you unless you are an idiot!

[Logical]

I do not like Hillary. I do not want her to run or be the nominee. I would not send her a dime of my money. I would spend it on other candidates.

You don't have to work for her. Donate money to her. Or even like her.

But helping elect a Republican right wing nut will not help our side at all.

People saying this are saying it on emotion only.

I am sure the real liberals here will do the right thing.

[HockeyMom]

1. They prefer a President Cruz or Palin?

Here? On DU??????

[mylye2222]

17. no. they prefer a Warren or a Bernie.

In fact a truth honest person.

[LordGlenconner]

23. You can't always get what you want

Mick and Keith said that.

And it's true.

[HockeyMom]

51. Sometimes you get what you need

[RobertEarl]

2. The Peace Candidate

The candidate most peaceful won the 2008 election, it will be that way again in 2016. Won't be too hard to find some one more in favor of peace than Hill.

Young people just want peace and they will turnout to vote for peace.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. It's still up to the candidates to convince the voters to vote for them.

If he/she fails to do so, don't blame the voters.

[Logical]

11. If you are a democrat you don't try to help the GOP!!! nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Alas, some of our Democratic candidates do try to help the GOP. See IWR for reference.

[hughee99]

43. Perhaps that comment should be directed towards Democratic candidates.

Not speaking of anyone specifically, but should a Democrat support a Democratic candidate that supports some of the same policies as GOP?

What makes one a Democrat, their political beliefs or the candidates they vote for? If the two are in conflict, which is more important?

[djean111]

4. I think there is a pushback on the DU meme (from a few) that Hillary WILL be the

candidate, so no point in caring about her policies and words or whatever, just shut up and be on board the Hillary train.
No point in looking at or supporting other possible candidates, because Hillary has a mountain of money and fantastic poll numbers. (You know, like Cantor did.)
Because the GOP is evil, and Hillary is better than the GOP. That's pretty much the only cogent argument, but then again, any of the possible Dem candidates would be better than the GOP.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Because they want to WIN! Geebus....

[GeorgeGist]

6. Real Liberals don't vote Republican ...

even when she has a D after her name.

[ancianita]

7. Fine, but then who have you got as an alternative. And are they where big campaign money will go.

[Logical]

13. LOL, so you think Hillary is worse than any republican? nt

[SidDithers]

8. DU rec...nt

Sid

[samsingh]

9. she's better than most candidates and may be a star if given the chance

[NCTraveler]

10. If she makes it out of the Primary....

Any person who has voted in the past, and doesn't vote because it is Hillary, is truly an idiot. Tens of millions of Republicans will not vote for her based on their principles. Some idiots with a complete lack of principles won't either.

[LanternWaste]

14. While I'll certainly vote for the nominee, I can't begrudge other people abstaining if done so in...

I imagine many half-wits and simpletons place party politics before ethical convictions, and further attempt to rationalize it as the only choice for "real liberals" (though I realize it does tend to allow one the veneer of both cleverness and party purity, regardless of its fundamental fiction).

While I'll certainly vote for the nominee, I can't begrudge other people abstaining if done so in good conscience.

[Maedhros]

15. I am not an idiot, thank you.

I will not help elect any Republican, but I will cast my vote for whomever I believe to be the best candidate.

Your attempts to try and shame me into compromising my vote are ineffective.

[Logical]

16. Republican? LOL, nice try. nt

[Maedhros]

18. Not a Republican, thank you.

I just believe in voting one's conscience, and disagree with lockstep partisanship.

[Logical]

27. You also don't believe in voting in your best interests. nt

[Maedhros]

28. You are in no position to determine what I believe,

and I am perfectly capable of determining what is in my best interests.

[Logical]

50. I disagree that you are! nt

[Maedhros]

67. Thankfully, I don't care! [n/t]

[rhett o rick]

19. As I have said, if you dont want a REpublican in the WH, dont nominate Clinton.

If you do nominate Clinton-Sachs and she loses, dont blame those that warned you not to nominate her.

[zappaman]

21. Clinton is a Democrat.

Hope this clears up your confusion.

[rhett o rick]

22. And that's as far as your evaluation goes. That does clear that up.

For the record, I only support Democrats, but I dont support all Democrats.

Those that are happy with the status quo will support a Clinton/Goldman-Sachs ticket. I support Democrats that want to save SS, Medicare for all, spending money on infrastructure and not military buildup. I support a strong VA and bringing back manufacturing jobs to America. I dont support fracking, the TPP, the XL Pipeline, the Patriot Act, nor those that do.

I only support Democrats but will not walk lock-step with those supported by the oligarchs.

We need a progressive Democrat in the WH.

[zappaman]

25. Great! You can vote for the Republican against the Democratic nominee...

or just write in Mickey Mouse, or just stay home, both of which also benefit the Republicans.
I'm sure the Republicans appreciate your upcoming support!

[Maedhros]

29. This notion that having actual expectations from Democratic Presidential candidates

is equivalent to supporting Republicans is truly, deeply, alarmingly stupid.

[rhett o rick]

58. That's the best they have. nm

[rhett o rick]

32. I always work hard for Democrats, but the nation wants change

and nominating Clinton will be a slap in the face. She does not represent change, she does not represent the 99%. She represents Goldman-Sachs and the Banking industry.

"Great! You can vote for the Republican against the Democratic nominee..." Really???

[lumpy]

37. Can you or anyone else give us a precise list of Hillary's political actions that have been so

horrendous that would move Democrats to hating her? I don't mean unspecified stuff like "she's a corporatist", "doesn't represent change".

[rhett o rick]

38. I think the onus is on those that support her to explain how she represents the 99%.

We know she takes money from Goldman-Sachs-O-Money and has stood up for the banks.

[lumpy]

44. I disagree. Anti-Clinton people have the onus to explain their reason for disdain of Clinton.

How does she take money from Goldman Sachs and how has she stood up for the banks? I really don't know, so clue me. Without more detail these statements are meaningless.

[rhett o rick]

49. I have seen plenty of reasons not to vote for Clinton-Sachs but little in favor.

Let's start with her support of the Republican I-War. And are you trying to tell me you missed the big stink made a few months ago when Goldman-Sachs gave her personal account $400,000 for having tea with them or some such excuse? At that time she told the bankers that she thought they were being maligned. I am pretty sure she favors the Trans Pacific Partnership, but maybe you know.

Tell us why we should support her.

[840high]

56. ....

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. Well said. Watch for Jerry Brown to jump in to challenge the "Wall Street" mentality of doing business and show he can relate to the little guy, if no one else does.

[lumpy]

46. I've heard how Hillary is a bad choice,lesser of two evils etc. but have failed to see concrete

reasons only vague statements like "she's a corporatist". What is the evil she has wrought?

[zappaman]

47. Ask our "progressives". n/t

[rhett o rick]

61. Or ask our conservatives why they love her so. She is in the pocket of Goldman-Sach-O-money

and that's good enough for our conservatives.

Oh yes, she will bow down to REpublicans at the drop of a hat. She fully supported the Bush/Cheney illegal Iraq War.

[joshcryer]

65. Conservatives despise her.

[rhett o rick]

59. Tell us where she stands on the economy and on the NSA/CIA. And then maybe you will figure

it out.

[joshcryer]

64. She voted against telecom immunity and wanted to renegotate NAFTA.

She hasn't been asked about TPP but TPP is geopolitical not economic, just as NAFTA was (and why Krugman won't apologize for his support for NAFTA to this day). So her answer probably would waffle.

Otherwise her ratings are pretty damn progressive across the board, you have to go really far back, when she was starting out and taking whatever she could get (Walmart, Rose Law Firm, etc). Of course, when you go that far back you have to ignore her working for Robert Treuhaft, a practicing communist. So you can't just pin her ideology to some past working environments, you have to take her at her word. At which point all you have to do is say she's a liar and can easily dismiss her offhand.

[liberal_at_heart]

20. You can call me anything you want. I don't give a damn. When I vote do you know who I

will be thinking about? My son. The fact that some faceless name on a computer screen thinks I'm an idiot will not cross my mind at all.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. Same here - the desperation of insulting fellow progressive here to garner support for Hillary, a hero Wall Street, is just sad.

[840high]

57. ..... +10

[LittleBlue]

24. I will leave the party if Hillary is nominee

Choosing between the lesser of two evils is not something I'm willing to do again. It isn't worth my time, effort or money.

The day Hillary gets the nomination I will change my registration to independent and never look back. It's sad because my family has been Democrats since the New Deal. My grandparents were union all the way. My grandmother would brag that my grandfather got bloodied fighting with scabs. We'd never betray the union, she said. Guess I'm not a "real liberal" after all.

I have absolutely zero interest in a party full of Wall Street puppets wearing Democrat masks. Count me out. If my grandparents were alive today, neither would recognize someone like Hillary as a Democrat. She is the kind of corporatist they fought against.

[Maedhros]

30. The politics of today's Democratic rank-and-file have devolved to simple Blue Team/Red Team

competition. The first, and only, goal is to win office - any actual policy goals or concrete objectives (e.g. strengthen social security, decreasing militarism, restoring civil rights) are considered good talking points but ultimately unimportant.

[zappaman]

26. I don't love her, but if she is the nominee

then she has my vote.

[Zorra]

31. Yeh, the lesser of two evils is preferable to the greater of two evils. nt

[rhett o rick]

33. The lesser of evils game plays right into the hands of the oligarchs. Each iteration we

get less and less. At some point we have to change the game. Sadly there are those among us that desperately want to hold onto the status quo likes it's a blankie. Afraid to fight for their freedoms and liberties. Our founders are rolling in their graves.

[Zorra]

35. If we're going to change the game, enough of us are going to have to go play in the street

to make the rule changes effective and permanent.



The most they are ever going to allow us on the political front is a few gains in social issues. And we'll get those with Democrats. We get less than zero with republicans. You might argue that the country has to get worse in order for the people to rise up and form a democracy, but the fact is, Occupy came about under a Democratic administration, and as disappointing as the Obama administration has been, life in the US is soooo much better than it was under Bush.

I'll take back any of our stuff I can until we move to take back everything that is ours.

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. he great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

The only solution is world revolution.

[rhett o rick]

36. We may get to world revolution but that wont help and probably will hinder.

Elites will rule. Elites will always rule. We need to find elites that understand that they will be better off if they dont let us die.

[Zorra]

39. My friend, when we find elites who aren't so greedy that they need to enslave others,

we'll be riding the unicorns that fly out of our asses.

We actually tried what you are suggesting a few times before in this country, and someone didn't like the idea much.

[lumpy]

40. Those gun slinging/shootin' patriots are working on changing the game also.

[amandabeech]

34. The next president may get a few Supreme Court picks.

The Supreme Court determines many tough questions in our society, and we need at least moderately progressive justices on the Supreme Court bench. Remember, all federal judges serve for life if they wish, and are nearly impossible to impeach. Once a justice like Scalia takes the bench, he can be a disaster for progressives for decades.

I haven't always been happy with Dem presidents, but they always pick decent people for the courts, and that's one reason why I simply will not vote for a third party for president.

Hillary, if she is the nominee and becomes president, will undoubtedly nominate much more progressive candidates than, for example, Paul Ryan or Jeb Bush.

That's enough for me to get out and vote for her (and the rest of the Dems) no matter how much I might disagree with her on other issues.

[lumpy]

42. What are Clinton's issues that you have disagreement with? I really want to know so I can

streamline my viewpoint.

[amandabeech]

62. She voted for the Iraq War resolution.

I simply cannot get over that disastrous vote.

Also, IMHO, she is even more "in" with the big financial companies than Obama has been.

I'd like to read her book to find out what she was thinking about Lybia, Egypt and Syria because I was leery of the Obama administration's positions with respect to those countries.

[Whisp]

41. Too bad Hillary didn't take your advice in '08 - she said McCain would be better than Obama

"I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."

But we are better than her, it appears. I don't have much respect or admiration for Hillary, but I would support her over any Pug if it came down to the wire. Not saying much for her.

[lumpy]

45. Can you point to a source that Clinton said McCain would be better tha Obama?

[mimi85]

48. Here you go...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-says-she-and-mccain-offer-experience-obama-offers-speeches/

[lumpy]

52. Thanks. She was directing a swipe at Obama. Of course McCain has had longer experience

in politics than Obama: she should have added, in her opinion, that McCain has contributed little good to the welfare of this nation perhaps. I suppose some might interpret her statement as being more supportive of McCain.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

53. I'll vote for her even if I don't like her

But then, I've never really liked any Democratic candidate in my lifetime except for JFK (and then I was a young kid swept up in my parents' adoration of him). Even though I expect imperfection, disappointment and lies from every Democratic candidate I vote for, I don't have the virulent hatred for them as I have had for every Republican Presidential candidate I've seen in my lifetime.

[Art_from_Ark]

63. I don't think that Gerald Ford was so bad for a Republican

And Bob Dole came across to me as a conservative but not a knuckle-dragger.

But all the other GOP candidates I remember, going back to 1968, were pretty bad.

[WhiteTara]

54. Let's make that Democrats

we vote for a dead yellow dog in the road before we vote for a repke...or give them the victory.

[B Calm]

66. I think she is more interested on being a grandmother, she won't run.

[fireflysky46]

68. I see it the same way. NT