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davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:18 PM May 2014

Time to wake up. The mentally ill are NOT responsible for society's woes.

Lately there seems to be this misconception, in the media, among the general populace, pretty much everywhere... that people with mental illness are somehow the culprits, somehow to blame for all of the most brutal crimes in our society. I'm here in an attempt to dissuade some of that ignorance, egotism and - yes - bigotry. I certainly do have a dog in this fight - and so should we all.

First, a brief introduction. I am David (no, not really a gnome - I just liked the name) and I was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder sixteen years ago - at the age of fourteen. Since that time I have come into contact with just about every "mental illness" we know of - in the form of (for the most part) genuinely good people who frequently struggle with illnesses and hardships that are poorly understood, often poorly diagnosed, and very rarely accurately or efficiently treated. It has been my honor, my pleasure and my privilege to have known these wonderful, compassionate, and unbelievably strong and brave individuals. Our society does them all a great dishonor, gives them all a great insult for which we had all ought to hang our heads in shame.

Imagine you have a heart condition that starts in your teens. This heart condition is unbelievably powerful, it makes you unable to do many things which are associated with normality, or a normal life. For instance, even the lightest exercise might exhaust you and threaten your life. Now let us imagine that this condition is not fatal in the typical sense of the word, but that it makes you unable to do certain things. Perhaps, under stress, your heart beats wildly and out of control, perhaps you cannot handle crowds for this reason, perhaps you are unable to work in any typical profession because of this disease - not due to a character flaw, stupidity, laziness, weakness, or a lack of morality... simply due to a biological, physical condition.

Now imagine the loneliness this might inspire, the struggle with feelings of self worth, the sad realization that you will never be like other people, that you will never be able to do the things they do. Perhaps you dream wistfully that you might attend the prom, but can't, because of this condition. For the same reason, perhaps the conventional avenues of education are unavailable to you, such as high school or a university education.

Let us now imagine that there are daily reports in the media of how strange you are for your solitude. People attribute all sorts of things to you - that you are dangerous, a socio path, a murderer waiting to happen. That you are intellectually damaged, that your illness is the result of some severe character flaws. Society judges you without any true knowledge of guilty or innocent, but simply the assumption that because you are so different, you must therefor be dangerous. Like a wild animal that must be treated with a strong measure of caution, even fear - and quite often, outright contempt.

Doctors prescribe medications which make this condition more bearable but cannot by any means hope to cure it - for they simply do not understand it well enough. Even the Doctors who treat you look at you askance, afraid that, perhaps, by mere closeness to you, they may contract the same disease. Or perhaps that you are a danger to them, simply by being.

What do you imagine such a life might entail? How do you imagine you might feel in these circumstances? Here's a suggestion for a radical experiment with empathy: put yourselves in their shoes. You have done nothing wrong, harmed none, and in fact have a great deal of courage and compassion for humanity, but all the same, humanity judges you as being "other", almost as if you were a vampire, monster, or alien species.

Does anyone expect that this might indeed take a toll on one's overall sanity? Perhaps one's state of mind? Might it not inspire anger over time, perhaps even hatred... and eventually, retribution? Consider these things. Consider them well.

For I have found in my own experience, and with my own illness, that we live in just such a society - that the picture I have painted here is painfully accurate and indicates that we are indeed foolish beyond all belief. Is a man with diabetes, or a woman with breast cancer... a threat to society? Do they, perhaps, sit around plotting all sorts of terrible things to do to people by virtue of their illness? What mind might even suggest such a thing? What foolishness might contemplate that an illness makes one somehow a bad or dangerous person?

It is this very ignorance - this very bigotry and foolishness - that often is responsible for the causation of hate crimes and cruelty in our society. As someone who is himself mentally ill, I have run out of patience with it and lost all tolerance for it. I may be one of the very few who understands that this is done in ignorance and not out of deliberate malice - but I must say all the same that I have experienced great suffering as a result of society's twisted views.

If you would judge me, if you would judge one who is "other" merely by their illness... because of their illness... is that fair? Is it just? Is it even rational? I say that it is not - and I welcome any challenge to my position.

Blame us if you like, but understand that you are making the very same mistake that cruel and terrible forces in this world once made. The eugenics movement, the Nazi regime, the Romans when they persecuted the Druids. History has millions of examples of this very thing - and it is without question, stupid, cruel... and a terrible, terrible waste.

I am not your enemy. I am not a danger to you. I am a man with an illness. Often it causes me pain and suffering. Would you add to it?

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Time to wake up. The mentally ill are NOT responsible for society's woes. (Original Post) davidthegnome May 2014 OP
Actually, I believe the Sociopaths that lead industry and government are responsible. dballance May 2014 #1
An interesting point, however... davidthegnome May 2014 #5
I have to agree with you on "Evil" being used as some supernatural thing. dballance May 2014 #12
Our society has a big, big problem phil89 May 2014 #2
You are not wrong. davidthegnome May 2014 #4
Thank you for your very poignant post etherealtruth May 2014 #3
Thank you David that was a beautiful post Bjorn Against May 2014 #6
I would encourage you to stay. davidthegnome May 2014 #15
Right there with you,bro Prophet 451 May 2014 #7
The mentally ill are being scapegoated, it is unfortunately a stance too many embrace through Jefferson23 May 2014 #8
Straw man treestar May 2014 #9
I didn't say a single word about Rodger. davidthegnome May 2014 #14
I don't think the mentally ill are dangerous per se treestar May 2014 #16
Of course they're not, not as a group. But some mentally ill individuals are a threat, pnwmom May 2014 #10
Let's consider the meaning of "some" and who is "threatened" HereSince1628 May 2014 #11
Exactly FunkyLeprechaun May 2014 #13
K&R for an important perspective. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #17
 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
1. Actually, I believe the Sociopaths that lead industry and government are responsible.
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:35 PM
May 2014

I absolutely accept your argument that the vast majority of people with a mental illness are not responsible for society's woes. I suffer from depression and take an SSRI for that. It has made my life much better along with the lives of the people who have to interact with me on a daily basis.

There is a book called "The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry." Many, but not all of our captains of industry, the banksters and the politicians would turn out to be psychopaths if rated according to this book.

Does this mean they should be classified as "mentally ill?" That's a question I don't believe I'm qualified to answer since I'm just an ordinary layperson and not specialist in mental health. If I were a betting man I'd bet on them being classified as, at least, anti-social and narcissistic.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
5. An interesting point, however...
Mon May 26, 2014, 03:05 PM
May 2014

Cruel, evil, ignorant, terrible, greedy. There are so many ways in which such people might be defined that do not even touch upon mental illness. While I tend to reject "evil" because it is often used with some kind of supernatural or paranormal implications... I think the others will do just fine those who are so cruel, narcissistic and anti-social. We could also use more naughty language and just call them assholes.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
12. I have to agree with you on "Evil" being used as some supernatural thing.
Mon May 26, 2014, 04:45 PM
May 2014

That's a really good point. I'm glad you brought it up so I can consider it in my future postings. "Evil" and "Good" do have some very obvious supernatural or paranormal connotations. Especially since we have so many movies and TV like Grimm or the Hunger Games or the Hobbit and Twilight series.

Thanks for posting!

 

phil89

(1,043 posts)
2. Our society has a big, big problem
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:36 PM
May 2014

with idea of accepting that there are things we don't understand, and that there may be no real explanation when terrible things happen. Many people demand an afterlife because they can't imagine death being the end, for example. Such is the case with scapegoating mental illness. It makes sense to people to just say "he was crazy/schizophrenic/etc." and stop thinking. As long as we have our safe simple explanation, we're satisfied. Just a thought. I do notice that the media seems to look for explanations like mental illness when it's not an african american person, because they are considered thugs, no mental illness explanation necessary.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
4. You are not wrong.
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:46 PM
May 2014

Even in this supposedly enlightened age... we still judge others as being different, invalid, incompetent - even inferior, merely because they are different and because we do not truly understand this difference. The first tyrant with the first sword was likely a person who said "they are different, let us destroy them".

This is why I don't really despair or let hate overcome me. Yes, I am judged in this way, but it is a part of the human condition, this ignorance, this cruelty, this fear. At the same time... compassion, understanding, generosity - these are also part of the human condition. We need not be slaves to either biology or genetics. Neither to history nor even to logic. Rather, we might choose our own paths, decide for ourselves who we might be. We might say "they are different, but still good. So I like them even though they are different. I will try to understand them with compassion and respect."

We are completely capable of this. History does not have to repeat itself so damnably often and so stupidly. We learn. With our will we choose to act (or not act) upon what we have learned. It is my belief that more of us are this way than the other. That more of us have genuine compassion in our hearts that is stronger than our ego, our greed, or our apparent lust for ignorance and destruction.

If I am wrong - then I will die having been a better person for this belief, even if it was inaccurate. I expect though, that I am right, at least in this. That people are more kind than cruel, more good than bad.

We are all human, we are all capable of great cruelty. We are also capable of great kindness.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
3. Thank you for your very poignant post
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:46 PM
May 2014

I am hoping that those that are not informed read your post and at least try to understand.

The more people that speak out .... about themselves, about those they love ... the more understanding, help and compassion will (hopefully) be given.

Thank you!

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
6. Thank you David that was a beautiful post
Mon May 26, 2014, 03:24 PM
May 2014

After the bigotry I have seen this weekend I have been debating whether I should stay at DU and fight or get away from the bigots who spout their ignorance and move to a different forum where I know my family won't be attacked. Posts like yours remind me that there are still some wonderful people here and it goes a long way in making me feel more welcome.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
15. I would encourage you to stay.
Mon May 26, 2014, 07:54 PM
May 2014

This is a fight that needs to be fought - and it is worth fighting. If we are ever to really get a better handle on mental illness... to be able to treat it with greater success, or perhaps even one day cure various forms... it must first be understood. Your experience gives you more insight into this than most will have. It is difficult, amazingly difficult, to really understand the mind. It is just as difficult to understand why one is mentally ill when another is not. Modern science is making some progress, but we need to make more progress on the sociological aspects of this as well. A more understanding society will lead to wiser, more enlightened, happier, more compassionate people. When the world at large accepts that "mentally ill" simply means ill, not bad, cruel, wrong, evil, or inferior... then I can say with 100% confidence that it will be a much better world to live in.

Stick around, your experience and your wisdom have great value in this struggle for a better understanding. I admire your courage, your dedication - and your understanding. I would not care to frequent any forum where someone like yourself was not welcome. As far as I am concerned, you are very welcome here indeed.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
8. The mentally ill are being scapegoated, it is unfortunately a stance too many embrace through
Mon May 26, 2014, 03:29 PM
May 2014

ignorance. The NRA is one large factor in the discrimination because it suits their quest
for the gun culture to thrive unabated.



treestar

(82,383 posts)
9. Straw man
Mon May 26, 2014, 03:31 PM
May 2014

Nobody said that.

When something like this happens, it is a perfectly reasonable thing to question the perpetrator's mental state.

It seems to me this is being used to pretend victimization, which always seems to be an advantage to some arguers. If you're a victim, we are mean to debate you. The mentally ill are not being blamed. Rodger is, and we are wondering, reasonably, if maybe he was mentally ill.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
14. I didn't say a single word about Rodger.
Mon May 26, 2014, 07:17 PM
May 2014

It seems that you drew this implication from my post that I am arguing that point - I am not. My post was not about that particular event so much as about society at large and the ways in which it operates. Were I indeed attempting to make the argument you seem to have thought I was making, then it would indeed have been a straw man. It is reasonable to wonder if someone who does something like he did is mentally ill. I would not argue this point.

On the contrary, my argument is with those who seem to think that mental illness is the cause of violence and terrible actions. It should be very obvious to anyone who has taken even a couple psychology and/or sociology classes that this is not the case. It can cause it, but to immediately determine that because someone is mentally ill - they are dangerous, or somehow inferior, is very faulty logic. Further, it is also faulty logic to immediately assume that someone who commits a crime (however terrible) absolutely MUST be mentally ill. To question if they might be? Well, now that's perfectly rational. I must point out though - that it is also perfectly rational to wonder if this person was NOT mentally ill.

The victimization of the mentally ill - the scapegoating of the mentally ill in this society, is very real and very painful for those of us who have experienced it. As someone who has lived with it for well over a decade, I find your notion of "pretend victimization" to be unbelievably ignorant.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
16. I don't think the mentally ill are dangerous per se
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:19 PM
May 2014

But there is a question of whether they are a danger to themselves or others. I understand they are more likely to be the victims of crimes than perpetrate them.

When someone does something like this shooting, their perception of reality is off. If he really believed what was in his manifesto, he doesn't see reality.

There is the legal definition too. Did he know what he was doing was wrong. That's complex. In some ways it seemed he didn't know. He seemed to think he had a perfect right to this retribution. That is messed up thinking.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
10. Of course they're not, not as a group. But some mentally ill individuals are a threat,
Mon May 26, 2014, 03:40 PM
May 2014

just as some "normal" people are.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
11. Let's consider the meaning of "some" and who is "threatened"
Mon May 26, 2014, 04:33 PM
May 2014

Most of the perception of dangerousness by the mentally ill exploited by the NRA in it's war on 'the monsters among us' is drawn from studies undertaken in institutions. In those settings the annual likelihood of -reported- violence from the severely mentally ill varies between 15% and 30%, but has sometimes been reported at 45%.

Studies of violence by persons with 'serious' mental illness in the general population such as the large catchment study conducted in the 1990's, suggest much lower annualized rates of violence. Those studies find that violence in society from the non-mentally ill is about 5% and the violence by the mentally ill is about 8%. Violence by drug users under the influence is about 15%.

Violence can be parsed in many ways and it may be aggressive or defensive. Studies of violence in institutions, mostly done in Sweden and England, suggest that most violence by the institutionalized mentally ill is defensive and directed at staff who are deemed to be threatening (perhaps irrationally and perhaps rationally) by the institutionalized person. A similar patter of violence appears to exist against non-professional caregivers who are mostly relatives.

The risk of violence in mass shootings associated with suicide doesn't closely follow this general pattern. Innocent victims may be unfortunate targets of opportunity. Thankfully these events are statistically rare among events of violence.

 

FunkyLeprechaun

(2,383 posts)
13. Exactly
Mon May 26, 2014, 05:08 PM
May 2014

I've known mentally ill people.

It's more about the easy accessibility of guns than any other issue.

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