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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf the GOP put half the energy into mental health and gun issues as they have Benghazi...
...I'm willing to bet tragedies like the California shooting would be far less frequent than we've come to expect.
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DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)'Murderous' does not automatically mean 'mentally ill.'
'Crazy' is not an actual mental health category.
Mentally ill persons are more likely to be victims of violence than to be perpetrators.
I'm seriously in favor of improving access to and quality of mental health care, and gun control. But for the love of little green apples can we PLEASE stop conflating the two?
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)That's like saying not everyone who gets lung cancer smokes, so, we shouldn't focus on preventing smoking. You're right - not every mentally ill person is a psychopath hellbent on killing. That doesn't change the fact that, because we don't advocate for mental health in this country at the level we should, incidents like this take place over and over and over again.
There are a wide range of mental illnesses that lead to violent outbursts and we don't do anything about it. If we don't do anything about mental health, then I guess we shouldn't be surprised when shit like this keeps happening.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)Care to pony up some statistics about those "wide range of mental illnesses that lead to violent outbursts?"
Also, out of curiosity, what is it you would have us "do about it?" (assuming that 'it' means possibly violent, possibly mentally ill people existing in the world)
Here, I'll get you started: Among DSM-listed mental health diagnoses, alcohol and drug use disorders were the most significant contributors to the public health burden of violent behavior. (1)
So, if we really want to address violence in this country, we need to find a way to deal with alcohol and drug use.
(1) -- Pulay, Dawson, Hasin, et al. (2008). Violent behavior and DSM-IV psychiatric disorders. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 69(1), 12-22.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)You're deflecting. Badly. Did drugs or alcohol play a role in Elliot Rodger's spree killing? Do you think he was mentally fit or what? So, let me get this straight: You're fine addressing alcohol and drug use to stop violence (even though not everyone on drugs or alcohol is violent), but you're dismissive of the idea that mental health could play a role in this?
Let me tell you my personal story. I had a father who suffered from PTSD due to his serving in Vietnam and when his disorder was triggered, he had the potential to become very violent - to the point where my mom had to call the police. We had to contain the PTSD through therapy and other measures, and fortunately, he never crossed the line where our lives were ever put at risk. But there were instances where he'd slip into an entirely different mindset and we worried - not only for his safety, but ours. I've dealt with a mentally unfit person and I know for a fact they can be violent. It doesn't mean they're all violent, in fact, most probably aren't, but there is obviously something horribly wrong with an individual who decides to kill and the way he plotted it out, the fact his parents were concerned, the fact there is no evidence he was on drugs or in a drunken rage, points to the fact that he wasn't all right mentally.
Your flippant dismissal of this issue is the reason this keeps happening. Instead of shedding light on a problem, we're too busy pretending it doesn't exist because the stigma this attaches to mental health issues are too painful and difficult to deal with. Well that mindset isn't going to change the fact that no one seemed to do anything to try to get this kid help and instead ignored the growing, and troubling signs, that something wasn't right.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)First, I'm truly sorry for your experiences with your father's PTSD. That sounds like a rough way to grow up, and an awful experience for your dad.
I am in no way suggesting that mental health care in this country shouldn't be a MUCH bigger priority than it is. It needs more funding, and more research, and more trained practitioners.
But the idea that most violence is perpetrated by mentally ill persons is WRONG. Most violence is perpetrated by perfectly sane persons who happen to think that violence is a good idea. (I am not saying the current shooter falls in to this category. I don't know a damn thing about his actual mental health status and neither does anyone else on this board.)
The reason these things keep happening is because we have built a society that says violence is an acceptable solution to problems.
Blaming mentally ill people for the violence in our society is so far beyond "flippant" that I can't even find the word for it.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)I didn't say most violence is perpetrated by the mentally ill - but it's clear mass-shootings and spree killings are generally the result of individuals who have some mental problems that might be better curtailed with the right care in this country. Obviously you're not going to wipe out all crime by pushing more mental health care - but it's clear far too many individuals are falling through the cracks and that does impact people from James Holmes to Adam Lanza and Elliot Rodger.
From my perspective, none of those men were mentally healthy. They might be a minority, but sadly, it's becoming far too common in the United States. But as is, we ignore the red flags and don't give these people the proper health needed so that they can work through whatever issues they may have.
