The wisdom of the founding fathers

[Algernon Moncrieff]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

It's a 225 year old document written by white men in a very different time. Perhaps it's time to reconsider the 2nd amendment....and perhaps raise the monetary limit on the 7th.

[el_bryanto]

1. Are you proposing a constitutional convention to redo the constitution

or an amendment process to revise those two amendments?

Bryant

[Slip_n_Slide]

2. What a shit show that would be....

[rustydog]

11. Can you imagine the circle-jerk the GOP would put on for the Country?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

8. I don't think we could get enough states to agree to a CC, no matter what the issue.

Whether it would be liberal items like ending corporate personhood, election finance reform, limiting the 2nd amendment, or codifying a right to privacy -- or conservative items like RTL, balanced budget, term limits, or redefining marriage -- I doubt it would happen.

If it would happen, however, I'd like to hold the CC at the Dakota Dome in Vermillion SD. On one hand, it's a university town, and I think college students would be eager assistants and witnesses to the spectacle. OTOH, I can't think of a place that most pols and press members would want to leave faster, so it would encourage quick work.

[Hoyt]

3. Basically agree, but there are too many right wingers to change most amendments like the 2nd.

Courts are the best avenue in most cases, especially when some of the neo-confederates on the Supreme Court are replaced.

[treestar]

4. We could make a start

It would take repealing an Amendment, but that has been done.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

12. Fighting the gun lobby will have to be a long, slow process.

As examples (from different parts of the political spectrum), look at MADD and National Right to Life. You'll need people who are in the fight for the long haul; who are certain of the justness of their cause; who can legally (or physically) get knocked on their ass and keep coming back; who will relentlessly be in the face of their elected officials every.damn.day; who will master the art of propaganda; who will be able to raise money and use it to good effect in elections; who won't expect quick results; and who understand that they might not live to see change, but their grandchildren might.

[former9thward]

5. The Seventh amendment is not really a problem.

It takes a dispute of $75,000 or more to get into federal court. Congress over the years has ignored the $20 figure. The only place $20 applies is in federal courts that are located in federal jurisdictions such as D.C.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

9. I'd just like it fixed for the record

Adjust the $20 for inflation, amend to a new amount, and then indicate something like "or as Congress determines, from time to time"

[Nye Bevan]

6. Many of the founding fathers were slave-owning racists.

The guy in my avatar being an honorable exception.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

10. I wonder what the guy in your avatar would think of America in 2014?

scared ?

of two minds?

sad?

amazed?

[treestar]

13. Amazed at the size of the country

Probably happy about that - going from coast to coast.

Distressed by the fact of the Civil War.

Totally amazed a black man is President.

A bit upset about the foreign wars. Or maybe very proud of all the power that means? Maybe the Founders would like the idea of being a superpower in the world. Probably didn't enter their heads.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

14. I think there's a lot they couldn't possibly have imagined

The fact that the Constitution works as well as it does 225 years on (with amendments, and that minor skirmish in the 1860s) is amazing.

[Nye Bevan]

16. I think he would be amazed and humbled that the original Constitution still survives,

pretty much in its original format, despite the enormous changes that have taken place in the United States.

[linuxman]

7. Oh, well...

As long as they were white!

[LittleBlue]

15. Not going to happen

Why waste time trying to do something that is hopeless?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

17. Once, somebody said that to women who wanted the vote

Once, somebody said that to people who wanted to desegregate lunch counters

Once, somebody said that to a young African American Senator from Illinois who wanted to be President.

"But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas? We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too." JFK, 9/12/1962

Little Blue, think about how that great man in your avatar would respond to, "Why waste time trying to do something that is hopeless?"

[Wolf Frankula]

18. Your Three Middle Points are now moot

Last edited Mon May 26, 2014, 12:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Amendments have changed apportionment and how taxes are done, how senators are chosen, and that about Persons held to Service or Labour.

Wolf

[Algernon Moncrieff]

20. Precisely the point. The Constitution was imperfect, but has been fixed over time

Perhaps the time has come to repair the 2nd Amendment.

[Cali_Democrat]

19. Good post

I'm a little baffled at how people worship at the feet of the founding fathers (all white men), many of whom were bigots.

The Constitution is flawed in many cases and the notion that we should worship it is ridiculous.