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Tue May 13, 2014, 11:40 AM

I love it when white Dudes proclaim to know the cure for white privilege

Don't you?

And we should all just be blessed when these white dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.


Tone deafness anyone??

243 replies, 11408 views

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Reply I love it when white Dudes proclaim to know the cure for white privilege (Original post)
boston bean May 2014 OP
Sheldon Cooper May 2014 #1
boston bean May 2014 #2
Sheldon Cooper May 2014 #5
pintobean May 2014 #3
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #35
Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #213
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #226
Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #234
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #236
Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #239
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #241
randys1 May 2014 #229
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #232
randys1 May 2014 #233
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #235
randys1 May 2014 #238
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #240
cyberswede May 2014 #63
Violet_Crumble May 2014 #183
Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #214
cyberswede May 2014 #217
pintobean May 2014 #224
NYC_SKP May 2014 #4
boston bean May 2014 #7
11 Bravo May 2014 #36
cyberswede May 2014 #51
Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #215
cyberswede May 2014 #218
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VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #39
lumberjack_jeff May 2014 #41
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #86
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MannyGoldstein May 2014 #130
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Nye Bevan May 2014 #6
Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #10
nomorenomore08 May 2014 #125
Name removed May 2014 #22
bravenak May 2014 #34
KansDem May 2014 #8
boston bean May 2014 #12
BainsBane May 2014 #9
boston bean May 2014 #11
BainsBane May 2014 #13
Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #25
Squinch May 2014 #138
NuclearDem May 2014 #14
boston bean May 2014 #15
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #40
nomorenomore08 May 2014 #126
el_bryanto May 2014 #16
boston bean May 2014 #17
nomorenomore08 May 2014 #128
TroglodyteScholar May 2014 #146
boston bean May 2014 #147
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stage left May 2014 #99
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The Second Stone May 2014 #123
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The Second Stone May 2014 #222
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The Second Stone May 2014 #242
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Name removed May 2014 #191
boston bean May 2014 #192
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boston bean May 2014 #194
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Post removed May 2014 #201
nomorenomore08 May 2014 #131
The Second Stone May 2014 #137
bravenak May 2014 #37
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Enrique May 2014 #43
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Name removed May 2014 #67
cyberswede May 2014 #69
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arcane1 May 2014 #82
VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #70
Lizzie Poppet May 2014 #216
Eleanors38 May 2014 #55
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boston bean May 2014 #61
nomorenomore08 May 2014 #133
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Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #64
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Post removed May 2014 #205

Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:42 AM

1. Dig a ditch. Drink beer. Easy peasy.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #1)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:42 AM

2. LOL

Well, the ditch keeps getting deeper and deeper.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #2)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:46 AM

5. They must not have heard the one about stopping the dig

when you're getting your ass handed to you.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:44 AM

3. Or, white women?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #3)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:46 PM

35. This White woman...agrees with the premise that White privilege exists...

 

so not all of us are dense enough to believe we (Whites) have the solutions...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #35)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:27 AM

213. As does male privilege.

 

Does that mean we women are the only ones who get to determine how to address that? Obviously not. Whites have a stake in addressing white privilege, too...

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #213)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:13 PM

226. Did I say that....weren't you one of the ones that denied White male privilege last week?

 

I believe so....but here is why you are wrong

Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:

as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)

Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)

White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)


So I call bullshit on your denial of the truth that White males ARE privileged.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #226)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:29 PM

234. I didn't claim you did...it was a general question.

 

And no, I have affirmed white privilege (and male privilege) multiple times and have never argued otherwise.. Feel free to retract your false claim.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #234)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:31 PM

236. And I just proved to your fast that White males ARE advantaged

 

If I recall you were posting in support of many of those men in denial of White male privilege last week. But if I have you confused with someone else I could be mistaken. If it wasn't you I apologize

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #236)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:46 PM

239. Proved to my fast? I have no idea what that means.

 

I reiterate: I have never denied white privilege and have stated this multiple times. I have also stated that the term itself (in common usage rather than academic) can be problematic, and I stand by that...but never that the problem it describes isn't very real and something that our society must address. I feel the same way about male privilege, fwiw.

Are these issues of privilege the worst problem we face as a society/culture? Nope...that would be gross capital inequality and the inevitable horror and bloodshed the current economic trends will cause, probably sooner rather than later. However, addressing issues of privilege would also be part of the solution to that larger problem.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #239)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:47 PM

241. mistyped....meant FACE

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #35)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:19 PM

229. White people are behind racism and privilege and only white people can resolve said issues

In america...

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Response to randys1 (Reply #229)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:25 PM

232. Uh no....why is it ONLY White people.....I do not agree at all....

 

There were White people who marched with Martin Luther King...there were White people on the buses into the South to register voters....there were White abolitionists even some during the Underground Railroad.

White people can be a part of the solution yes......but they cannot change it without first admitting that the problems exist....and that means listening to and accepting what minorities are saying about their experiences.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #232)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:27 PM

233. We are saying the same thing, I am saying that someone without privilege cannot solve

the issue, only those with the privilege can address it and resolve it.

Just like no Black person in America, who has no institutional power or societal power, can be a racist since the word racist exists to define power, if you arent in power you arent a racist, you are a bigot...

No Asian person or Latino person can resolve racism, only white can (in america)

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Response to randys1 (Reply #233)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:29 PM

235. Oh for sure.....those with the privilege MUST be a big part of the solution....

 

but as long as some as so-called Liberals are in denial about White male privilege.....we are still a long way from being able to fix it....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #235)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:43 PM

238. Sadly we are...and it isnt complicated why

Lots of white folk, especially men, hear the same footsteps that the rightwing racist assholes hear, that the minorities are gaining on them and they are not comfortable with it.

Our job is to convince that 50% or more of the white democratic party that they must let go of their fear and anxiety and admit that they/we are part of the problem...

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Response to randys1 (Reply #238)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:46 PM

240. Agree with you randys1 100%!

 

THAT is how we fix it!

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Response to pintobean (Reply #3)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:21 PM

63. Is there a thread somewhere demonstrating this?

Because there is one demonstrating the OP's premise.

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #63)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:22 AM

183. Why does there have to be? Of course white women are a privileged group...

And my bet is there's white women who'd deny that privilege exists....

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #183)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:33 AM

214. For being white, sure. For being women, obviously not.

 

Which matters more, white privilege or male privilege?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #183)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:44 AM

217. pintobean's reply implied that the OP was negligent in not mentioning women...

but since the OP is about a specific post by a white male offering a "cure" for white privilege, I was wondering if there was a similar thread posted by a woman, which would then make pintobean's reply more relevant.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #217)

Wed May 14, 2014, 03:48 PM

224. How about this OP?

Or, the fact that a bunch of white women are all over these threads telling everyone how to think and feel about race issues. Just don't dare let a white "dude" do it. Yeah, I knew it was a call-out of a specific "dude". I also find it hypocritical.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:46 AM

4. Speaking of tone deafness.

 

Is there a way on Earth that your commentary can possibly be helpful to the progressive community?

"White Dudes"?

Really?

Mama used to tell me, "Read more. Talk less."

Here's a good read on 'privilege':

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4945643

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:53 AM

7. It's the god damned truth of the matter.

If you can't see that, I suggest it is you who need to "read more and talk less" on DU.

Wow what a condescending thing to say, wasn't it?

And that isn't to say that white women can't be just as bad, they can.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #7)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:47 PM

36. And yet notice who you singled out in your thread title.

Maybe you get bonus righteous lefty DU cred for the first dozen or so threads about the same topic, but eventually the bloom comes off of the rose.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #36)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:01 PM

51. There's at least one thread by a white male proposing a solution to white privilege...

Perhaps that's why the OP singled out "white dudes" in her thread title.

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #51)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:34 AM

215. Why shouldn't there be?

 

Does anyone really think those who benefit from privilege shouldn't be part of the conversation on eliminating it?

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #215)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:46 AM

218. I didn't say there shouldn't be...just that the OP is about a specific thread...

posted by a white male, and that's why bb "singled out" white males in her OP.

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #218)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:49 AM

219. My question was more general...not directed specifically at you.

 

I should have been more clear...

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Response to boston bean (Reply #7)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:50 PM

39. Who were arguing against White privilege?

 

none other than the Whites that have benefitted from it the most....White men!

I was just told by one that expecting them to accept White privilege is "arrogant and condescending" even from me....a White woman!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #7)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:52 PM

41. I'm sure anyone can find anecdotes that support their prejudicial biases.

 

Just because your prejudicial bias is the prevailing sentiment doesn't make it less prejudiced.

If white women "can be just as bad as white men" (how's that for revealing?) then why, in every one of your posts on the topic, do you treat white women as somehow exempt?

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #41)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:46 PM

86. Its just prejudice huh?

 

2010 White men salaries 100% comparison

Black men 74.5% (of White men's)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men's)

White females 80.5% (of White men's)
Black females 69.6% (of White men's)
Hispanic females 59.8% (of White men's)

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #86)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:05 PM

103. Is this a better example of a non sequitur or a red herring?

 

I vote red herring.

An unsourced, misleading*, red herring.

*I'll follow you this far down the rabbit hole into which you want to derail the conversation: median earnings are not in any way comparable figures unless you correct for hours worked, occupational choice and experience.

... but no farther.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #86)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:12 PM

130. Source?

 

Thanks.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #130)

Wed May 14, 2014, 03:47 AM

175. for your Edification....

 

Source: U.S. Current Population Survey and the National Committee on Pay Equity; also Bureau of Labor Statistics: Weekly and Hourly Earnings Data from the Current Population Survey.

Read more: The Wage Gap by Gender & Race Timeline History (White, Black, Hispanic, Men & Women) http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html#ixzz31fqsWrX9

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #175)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:51 AM

190. Thanks. nt

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #190)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:17 PM

228. Welcome...

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:51 AM

6. .

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:56 AM

10. Sorry, the horse isn't dead. it is the highest horse I have ever seen and Some White Dudes on here

are riding it through the BIGGEST PUDDLE of SHIT that I have ever seen.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #10)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:02 PM

125. +1

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)


Response to Name removed (Reply #22)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:46 PM

34. Wah!!!

 

Waaaaahhh!
Poor you.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:55 AM

8. "White dude?"

Hypocrisy much?

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Response to KansDem (Reply #8)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:59 AM

12. Which are you objecting to, "White" or "Dude" ? nt

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:56 AM

9. My favorite

getting black folks to dig ditches and plow fields. Yeah, that worked really well back in the nineteenth century.
For some reason it didn't cure racism. Fancy that?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #9)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:56 AM

11. I know. I was like WTF?

This one has got to be playing us.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:59 AM

13. I am now certain of it

No question.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #13)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:32 PM

25. me too

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #9)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:18 PM

138. Which bright light said THAT???

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:01 PM

14. I would've thought that maybe listening to minority communities on the issue would be a solution.

 

And given all the shit they have to put up with on a daily basis, not taxing them with the responsibility of not offending white men.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #14)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:04 PM

15. Are you kidding me? Listen to minority communities regarding issues that effect them

and how they see a resolution... Hell NO, that's what white people are for and they are to do that for them.

I'm being sarcastic for those who couldn't tell...

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #14)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:51 PM

40. We were told that if we all just held hands and sing Kumbaya together

 

it would fix everything in that thread!

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #14)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:04 PM

126. "...not taxing them with the responsibility of not offending white men."

Indeed. This white dude says the whiners can shove it.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:04 PM

16. I guess your argument is that white males at DU should not comment on this issue? nt

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #16)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:05 PM

17. My argument is that they shouldn't be diminishing and denying a black persons

experience or feelings on the issue, and think it is only they who have the answers and not the ones who experience it.

Is that ok?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #17)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:08 PM

128. Exactly. It's the arrogance and presumptuousness that are most of the problem. n/t

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Response to boston bean (Reply #17)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:54 PM

146. "... and think it is only they who have the answers..."

We all experience it from different angles, and your comment implies that white people necessarily must not contradict anything you say because you have some kind of automatic credibility that trumps the entire experience of any white male. You are basically saying not only that minorities exclusively hold the answer, but that whites have nothing to contribute at all. Talk about condescending.

By your logic, men have no right to doubt Sarah Palin's view of what a woman ought to be, either. Utter horseshit.

P.S. Discussion is a two-way road. If you don't want to share the road, it's not discussion you're looking for in the first place.

P.P.S. I am a white male who acknowledges and regrets the existence of white privilege. By telling me that, by virtue of my race and gender, I am the problem, you are espousing racist views on a liberal message board. Take a moment to replace your self-righteousness with a little shame, if only for a microsecond.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #146)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:57 PM

147. I'm not sharing any road with people who attempt to diminish and squelch

the experiences of minorities. YMMV.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #147)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:00 PM

148. My mileage does fucking vary

Your entire approach throughout all of these threads has been, "white men believe only they have the answers." Nevermind that your problem is with a few vocal assholes (something every race produces).

Now...I missed the last "white dudes" meeting, so I don't know what the others think, but I'm pretty sure your opening premise and go-to line is RACIST AS FUCK .

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #148)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:01 PM

149. That's because the ones I am talking about do believe they are the only ones with the correct

way to speak about, solve it, and discuss it.

Jaysus!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #149)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:09 PM

152. "White dudes"

That's the group you call out. I'm part of that group.

Why is it okay to attack all "white dudes" and then claim innocence because you really just meant the assholes who are white?

If I posted an OP condemning "black folks" for some activity that I ascribe to all of them, would the post even survive long enough for me to backpeddle like you did? Fuck no. That would be racist. Just like what you've said.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #152)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:10 PM

153. Did you write a post or ever speak about curing privilege whilst denying it exists?

If not, then I'm not talking about you. If so, then maybe the shoe fits.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #153)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:11 PM

156. plonk

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #156)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:13 PM

158. Plonk is exactly my thought as well.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #158)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:17 PM

160. Enjoy spewing your one-liners while someone else tries to solve the problems you actively exacerbate

Keep driving those wedges. That's the path to enlightenment.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #160)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:20 PM

161. You keep driving those wedges by not understanding it's not about you personally.

Your argument is tired, worn and old. I'm done listening to it.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #147)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:04 PM

150. P.S. It does DU a serious disservice...

...when someone like you comes along to start a flamebait thread, and makes sure to reply to every contrary viewpoint NOT with a thoughtful, considered response...but rather with contemptuous and dismissive one-liners. It's beneath us as a community.

You've lumped myself and a lot of decent people in with a bad crowd because of your willingness to generalize in ways that would SIMPLY OUTRAGE you if the tables were turned.

If you can't give a serious response to those of us who call your inflammatory bullshit, you shouldn't bother posting at all.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #150)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:07 PM

151. No it is you who have done that. ie lumped yourself in with the others.

How do you think black persons feel when they are told they are discussing their experiences wrong.

Don't think about that much do you. You just want to think about how boston bean wrote an OP and you don't like the way it was written.

Well there is a bigger discussion to be had here than how you think I done did you wrong somehow.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #151)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:11 PM

154. You are not worth any more time

So many assumptions about me in such a small space! You must be proud of your enlightened attitude?

You're part of the problem, not the solution. You AIM TO DIVIDE. You make me fucking sick.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #154)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:12 PM

157. No, I made no assumptions about YOU.

You may think I have personally affronted you somehow, but I did not.

No, I seek to give persons who experience racism respect and listen to them, and not take their words as a personal affront to me when they discuss their experiences.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #157)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:18 AM

181. but but but you said mean things about "White dudes".....why why that's...that's...

 

that's just mean.....you big ol meanie head!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #157)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:18 AM

207. Your denial of your divisiveness is no better than the denial you

 

Are pretending to care about. ..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #207)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:22 AM

208. I am the divisive one and "pretending to care"?

If what I post makes you feel alienated from DU or the party, put me on ignore.

What I post is well within the priorities of the Democratic Party and most of DU. Have a problem with that? I don't care.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #208)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:28 AM

209. Waaaa....not alienated, stupefied by those who wish to

 

cure racism through divisive racist sexist rants that convince nobody to agree...and pretending they aren't these things convinces no one...The king has no clothes...

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Response to pipoman (Reply #209)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:31 AM

210. Oh, it is me who is sexist and racist?

Not those who denies sexism or racism? Just the one who do believe and live with the oppression are racist and sexist.

Ok, seems rather twisted to me. But you go for it!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #210)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:04 AM

211. Have a link to someone on DU denying racism or sexism?

 

Not talking about someone taking umbrage with semantics. No, stereotyping based on race and/or gender is racist and sexist. Pretending it isn't doesn't change anything. .

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Response to boston bean (Reply #17)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:10 PM

170. +1

Damn okay with me.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #17)


Response to Name removed (Reply #187)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:07 AM

195. You sound like you don't trust black persons.

ok.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #195)


Response to Name removed (Reply #199)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:21 AM

200. keep on keeping on....

I'm done with responding to a person who thinks black persons lie about racism to benefit themselves.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #199)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:27 AM

202. .



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Response to boston bean (Reply #17)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:01 AM

203. Citation Needed

diminishing and denying a black persons experience or feelings on the issue, and think it is only they who have the answers and not the ones who experience it.


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Response to On the Road (Reply #203)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:03 AM

204. The citation is all over this thread and all over GD

start there.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #16)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:07 PM

127. Then why have I made dozens of posts on the subject and never been called out once?

As a Scottish/Lithuanian-American I'm about as lily-white as you can get.

Oh, wait... Maybe it's because I don't act like I know more about racism than actual people of color?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:08 PM

18. I'm listening. What, EXACTLY, is the cure for white privilege...

 

Please be specific. Very specific. I'll wait.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #18)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:30 PM

24. .

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #18)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:46 PM

33. As someone upthread said, "listening to minority communities on the issue"

That would be a good start.

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #33)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:33 PM

71. I am listening, but there doesn't seem to be any unified message...

 

Outside here on DU that is.

Here the alpha and omega seems to be semantics, with advocates insisting that they be allowed to establish the parameters of debate and the language used. In any case, I believe that white privilege is very real, but I think it is more useful to discuss this in terms of specific defined ADVANTAGES. I do not, however, insist that anyone else agree with me, nor do I believe that these terminology wars are useful unless the goal is to stifle debate and dismiss opinion.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #18)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:41 PM

142. Acknowledgment. And before you say, "Fine I acknowledge it so it's cured,"

what I mean is that it needs to be acknowledged by the privileged in response to the situation in which the privilege was wielded. The privileged need to make it socially unacceptable among themselves to use the privilege, and need to point out its unacceptable nature when they see it occurring.

For example if, as recently happened to me, I am at a real estate open house, and a black couple arrives and the realtor makes a side remark to me that the couple will probably not be comfortable in the neighborhood, nudge, nudge, as a member of the privileged group, I need to be vocal about the fact that her attitude toward them lost her my business. She doesn't want the business of the non-privileged group. She does want my business. They can't create a change in her behavior. I can. The non-privileged group, by definition, cannot end privilege. Only the privileged group can.

Another example: smart, obviously well educated, adult people on a discussion board discuss their first hand experiences with privilege and how profoundly they have been affected by them. Some jackass, without any first hand experience of that privilege, comes along and tells them that the experiences either didn't occur, or were not important, or were not examples of white privilege, or they say that white privilege doesn't exist. One step to cure white privilege is if we all avoid being that jackass.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #142)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:53 PM

174. It goes quite a bit beyond these limited examples, and that's the problem...

 

The things you described are not privilege, they are just racism, and hopefully we all challenge that evil whenever and wherever we see it. Privilege is more subtle. Privilege is knowing that a black guy, no matter how talented he is, probably cannot do what I do for a living. Because he is black, and white people are not going to trust him the way they trust me. And more, when its midnight and he is walking back to his car in the dark, when he walks past the police he has to wonder if he will be rousted for being black, whereas I feel only relief that they are there to protect me. And that's why they are there, to protect me, the white guy. And from who? You already know the answer.

So how do you fix this? Where do you have beven begin?

For individuals it's easy. We can try to root out our personal prejudices and destroy them, but we can only do this where it makes sense. Cops profile, and so do I. When I am walking back to my car at midnight and I spot a college girl jogging I am not concerned for MY safety, but hers. You can call that a privilege if you like. She, on the other hand, might not feel the same about me. Seeing me there might just scare the hell out of her, not because she hates men or me personally, but because other men have given her cause to react this way. So what do we do?

For myself, I am just going to continue to treat people the way I want to be treated. I can try to be understanding and compassionate, and help other people the way I have been helped in my own life. Beyond that I don't have any good answers.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #174)

Wed May 14, 2014, 03:30 PM

223. No. The things I describe are privilege. The others experienced racism. I experienced privilege.

And basically, your post says, yes I experience privilege, but I have no intention of doing anything different in response to it.

I suspect that there is nothing I can write to which you won't respond, "No, that's not privilege and there's nothing I can do about privilege."

So my last word on this is to say, for yourself, maybe you could add an activity: quit posting posts that are designed to shut down the conversation among people when they are discussing white privilege. Especially people of color who are discussing their lack of privilege.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:10 PM

19. The smart thing is to say nothing.

I really have ended up giving up talking about a range of subjects these days because I was born white and male and therefor know nothing.

I'll do what I can to help elect people that I think can fix it. I'll do my best to raise my kids to understand the problem and not make it worse.

But I won't offer solutions. I'll just grow older and be thought of as the problem because of what I am. I'm fine with that.

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #19)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:53 PM

42. Nobody said nothing.....but apparently on this subject you don't...

 

You have no idea what it is like to be "pregnant" either do you? You just cannot relate to that because you will never be pregnant. Being non-white and or non-male is like that for you....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #42)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:30 PM

121. So all of these subjects are completely beyond the scope of reason?

If that's the case then why is there any point in discussing them at all?

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #121)

Wed May 14, 2014, 03:54 AM

176. Did I ask about reason?

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #176)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:13 AM

206. Your claim is that reason has zero value

If people have "no idea" what an experience is like unless they have experienced it, then those who have apparently are incapable of articulating those experiences in a way that someone else can understand.

So if this were actually true, then what is the point of discussing these things?

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #206)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:14 PM

227. Have you experienced child-birth?

 

neither have I...

I do not presume to tell women who have what that is like....do you?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #227)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:19 PM

230. I do no presume to tell people who have not had a particular experience...

that they have no business discussing the topic.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #230)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:22 PM

231. You have no business telling pregnant women what its like and how they should handle it

 

any more than a White man should do for women or minorities....period....BECAUSE White men cannot relate to their experience....just like men cannot relate to what its like to be pregnant.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #231)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:38 PM

237. So were back full circle now

You obviously feel the subject is beyond the scope of reason and feel the need to misrepresent the person you were responding to in order to make your point. I don't really see the point in continuing a discussion that goes back to where it started every couple of posts or so.

Cheers!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #42)


Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:17 PM

20. Yes! "white Dudes" shouldn't offer any thoughts on how to address issues of privilege at all.

That's what we all need to start doing with our privilege issues, dismissing opinions based solely on someone's race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Only then can we have a society where all people are treated equally!

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #20)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:18 PM

21. I guess you miss the part where the actual persons who experience racism

have their opinions dismissed, based on some white dudes feelings on the subject.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #21)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:29 PM

23. So you don't think people's opinions should be dismissed?

I didn't get that from your OP at all. I probably "missed that part" because it wasn't there.

You made a snarky comment and got snark in return.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #23)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:35 PM

27. Yep, I did. and now I return to you to your regularly scheduled programming of

It's a Mans World.

Lord knows no one has a more valid opinion than the one given by he. Even when it is he who isn't affected by it.

Try to keep up with the topic. Believe it or not, it really is simple. White men ought not be telling minorities how and why they should feel and then go on to give advice on how to resolve it based on those views that minorities reject.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #27)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:40 PM

30. I didn't say anything about the validity of anyone's opinion, nor did I sugget dismissing ANYONE's

opinion. You're arguing against things I've never said. I'm arguing against what you actually said.

Is it okay for a white woman to discussion issues of race? Is it okay for a black man to discuss issues of gender?

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #30)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:43 PM

32. It's ok for any one to discuss issues of race

in a respectful manner that is actually based in reality, not denial of racial issues.

Get it? Hope so..

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Response to boston bean (Reply #32)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:54 PM

44. So your issue is with the denial of racial issues, then.

To me, it sounded from your OP like your issue is with "white dudes" opinions, not general uninformed and stupid opinions regardless of race or gender. I'm all on board with having no regard for idiotic opinions regardless of their source.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #44)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:56 PM

46. the subject at hand is White Dude Privilege.....

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #46)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:00 PM

49. Also, it is quite presumptuous for any white person to be proclaiming the CURE

for white privilege.

Especially when the cure they put forward has nothing to do with acknowledging privilege exists. In fact it was and was stated over and over again how words mean nothing, only action does in that thread. When for a week now, we've had nothing but alleged progressives (mostly males) state over and over again how white privilege does not exist, how it is prejudiced to say that it does, and how they don't have any.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #49)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:14 PM

56. totally agree with you Boston Bean!

 

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Response to boston bean (Reply #27)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:19 PM

118. "White men ought not be telling minorities how and why they should feel" Okay, and perhaps..........

 

the reverse should hold true as well, am I right?

My point is, why not listen to everyone? No one ideological group should be totally dominating the conversation......I'm sure we can agree on *that*, I hope?

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #118)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:08 AM

178. on discrimination....white men have the market pretty much cornered

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #26)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:36 PM

28. Well...

In this case, the OP is referring to a thread posted by a white male, I believe.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #26)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:41 PM

31. Well they both exist...

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Response to Name removed (Reply #26)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:54 PM

45. Yes n/t

 

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Response to Name removed (Reply #26)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:56 PM

47. both...so don't be confused

 

are you suggesting one isn't valid?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #47)


Response to Name removed (Reply #52)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:09 PM

53. Uh. Huh.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #52)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:12 PM

54. why are you feeling "scolded"?

 

You are not scolded....you're privileged.

(and lest you forget....women are also at a disadvantage)

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Response to Name removed (Reply #52)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:16 PM

60. Are males privileged to females?

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #60)


Response to Name removed (Reply #74)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:37 PM

75. That is YOUR question not mine...

 

who is "calling you out"?

Some salary facts for your edification (just for starters..)


2010 White men 100%
Black men 74.5% (of White men)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men)

White women 80.5% (of White men)
Black women 69.6% (of White men)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White men)

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #75)


Response to Name removed (Reply #84)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:47 PM

87. I am saying if you are White and male....you are very privileged indeed!

 

everyone else makes at least 20% less then you do!

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Response to Name removed (Reply #84)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:50 PM

92. Do you deny the existence of institutionalized privilege based on skin color, gender or sexual

orientation?

A white person has institutional privilege over someone with a different color skin.
A man has institutional privilege over a woman.
A hetero has institutional privilege over non-hetero.

Do you deny these institutional privileges exist?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #92)


Response to Name removed (Reply #100)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:55 PM

101. At least you now say you recognize privilege exists but wtf?

This thread is about specific posts by specific people who do need scolding. Your attempt to expand it to everyone is rather amusing.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #74)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:40 PM

77. White females have privilege compared to black females

But I haven't seen a thread posted by a white woman presuming to know how to "cure" white privilege.

This OP is about a thread posted by a white male who did presume to know how to "cure" white privilege.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #52)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:17 PM

62. So?

 

White men owned their wives until recent history, like the 20th century. Black dudes got the vote before white women. White women have it harder than white men. White men are special in the way that they didn't have to march in the streets and get beat up and arrested just to get the rights that they have. Black people and women had to fight.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #62)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:34 AM

184. And then it behooves white women,

of whom I am one, to recognize that black women have met much more resistance than white women. Black women face more entrenched stereotypes, and those stereotypes are different than the ones white women face. White women suffer street harassment because they are objectified and to be 'kept in check', but black women face street harassment on steroids because not only are they objectified, but they also have to contend with the institutional racism that teaches men that black women are, literally, objects to owned.

Some of us realize that that is what checking one's privilege means - to realize that certain characteristics about ourselves means that we have it easier than others with the minority characteristic. It means challenging others with the same privilege when they neglect or refuse to take into account the increased resistance faced by minority groups one does not belong to oneself. Unfortunately, many white feminists have had problems acknowledging the experiences of black women, but they are being challenged these days not only by black feminists and womanists, but also by white feminists that want to be allies to black feminists and womanists.

That is how different privileges play out in real time - we all have different privileges, some more than others. If the only privilege you lack is class, you really need to think before you dismiss others when they tell you about how they experience the world.

Bravenak, I know you already know all these things, so the 'you' is generic. This is less an answer to your post, and more a post that uses your post as a point of departure.

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #184)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:05 PM

221. Good post.

 

Thanks.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #52)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:53 PM

98. Well this thread appears to be about specific posts by specific people

Are all of those people white dudes? If so then that's why white dudes are being singled out.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #26)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:15 PM

59. I can't blame you for being confused; a lot of this banter fails to make complete sense anyway.

 

Welcome to DU, by the way.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #59)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:23 PM

65. funny how it is only confusing to a few White males....

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #65)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:42 PM

80. At least this time

he is using civil language.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #80)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:43 PM

81. very true....I guess that is a step...a baby one but still

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #81)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:52 PM

96. Awaiting the Magnum Opus/op.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #65)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:53 PM

99. and funny how it is just banter if one group expresses their life experience and reactions to same

and considered discourse when another group does it. The unwarranted defensiveness rampant here is getting on my nerves, but I can no longer be silent.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:39 PM

29. As a now middle aged white man who has spent his whole life

 

fighting for equality, I've got to say it looks like your post is nothing more than trying to divide the people fighting for equality. I don't need to be publicly scorned because I am white or a male. Nor do I need to see other white men publicly scorned on the basis that they are white or male. Perhaps some people have engaged in behavior you find needs discussing in a specific way, like, say, Donald Sterling said something offensive and stupid. But your post is just generally racist.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #29)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:49 PM

38. But, it is ok and we should all just remain quiet

about men who give pronounce these cures, when they don't respect the opinion of minorities.

I get it. You could literally take my OP and read it how you would like. But the intention is to point out the massive ego some males must have to think they get to spout cures and everyone ought to listen and lend credence, when they do nothing but deny the privilege they hold. And insult minorities in the process.

You think that isn't an issue... ok.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #38)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:57 PM

123. Personally, I find this "white privilege" meme in the abstract to be viciously

 

insulting. I've spent 45 years fighting for equality. I find your comments different from the comments of Strom Thurmond only in that he said racist things about all black people, and you are saying racist things about all white men. If find your behavior racist and insulting. If a particular person has done something wrong, call out the specific behavior of that particular person. If there is an institutional practice that you find racist, call out that practice by name and the people who support it by name.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #123)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:02 AM

177. Why would you .....have you personally committed racism?

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #177)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:38 PM

222. I'm a person of plaid complexion with notions that I express

 

publicly. You tell me, are my notions racist? I certainly do not intend them to be racist, I certainly do not intend to offend anyone. I do not wish to cut in line, I want everyone around me to be the happiest they can be. For liberal causes I've passed petitions, stuffed envelopes, walked-precincts, joined and chaired committees and boards, attended conventions, donated and raised money, registered voters, written and published materials, run for office, held office and many other things. Because equality and respect for others is self-evidently correct.

Are certain people privileged by skin color or birth? George Will is a very good example. Talented at putting sentences together, he was born into a job defending conservatism where approximately one out of three columns he writes are about how black people aren't as worthy as white people. His columns are filled with historical errors. He has never worked a day in his life outside this world of conservative and racist water carrying for his employers. It is the epitome of privileged cluelessness. Every time he talks about race, he would be the good subject of such a discussion. But white men in general are not privileged. Men like George Will and Donald Sterling are. Their racism is not the result of their skin color, or really even their privileged upbringing. It is their lack of respect for the equality of others who weren't born rich and remain self-centered their entire lives, not just through their teenage years. They happen to have a skin color.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #222)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:11 PM

225. You are calling ME racist when all I am doing is pointing out the truth...

 

Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:

as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)

Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)

White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)


So I call bullshit on your denial of the truth that White males ARE privileged.


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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #225)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:35 PM

242. I think that the way the "white male privilege" debate is being

 

developed is insulting and racist.

If I am in fact "privileged" by the mere fact of being white and male I'd like to know at what desk, window or counter I go to take a job of someone else and get higher pay to boot. I've never done such a thing or heard of such a thing. I would be happy to investigate the facts if anyone knows of such an arrangement. I can assure you that no one has ever alerted me, a pleasant enough white male of FDR style liberal politics persuasion, that there was such an old boys club available. Let me put in a caveat. I can tell you the names for such clubs for conservative white males. The Federalist Society, the Republican Party, The Bohemian Club, The Olympic Club, Skull & Bones etc. are in fact such arrangements. But they are closed to me and the vast majority of white males. At least I assume so. I wouldn't ask to join a club like that, and I've never been recruited for them despite knowing many of their members. Those are not clubs for any ole white males. They are for conservative white males from the right kind of families (that have money).

I don't get to skip lines at the airport, have limo drivers assume that I am their afternoon customer, get moved ahead in line, get to speak longer, get special treatment of any kind that I know of because I am a white male. I didn't get to be a legacy at university, admitted to any grad school, or hired by any company because I am a white male.

So when someone tells me about all these wonderful privileges, I have to call bullshit. I don't get them, I know of no individual who does get them. What I interpret as a fact from those same statistics are that women and black people and other minorities are discriminated against and oppressed in a great number of ways and that is a fact that should be remedied by law. We can do that by passing laws. We can pass laws by building coalitions, registering voters and voting for liberal candidates and progressive candidates. Votes are counted one at a time. Equal pay laws with teeth behind them will protect all citizens.


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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #242)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:52 PM

243. I just showed you why....but here it is again.....please pay attention

 

Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:

as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)

Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)

White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)

^^^^ and THAT is just salary...that's called "privilege".

You can deny it and call it "insulting" to be faced with it all you want....doesn't change the facts.....

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Response to boston bean (Reply #38)


Response to Name removed (Reply #191)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:56 AM

192. Denying their experience and controlling the language

they use to describe their experience is INSULTING and DISRESPECTFUL.

You really think that's the way to go... more power to ya then.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #192)


Response to Name removed (Reply #193)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:04 AM

194. Denying their experiences and historical and current day struggles

is well... I don't know... you think up a word.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #194)


Response to Name removed (Reply #196)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:16 AM

198. It is your problem that you are so distrustful of black persons,

not mine. I tend to agree with them regarding white privilege and how it affects them and their life experience. You don't.

That's about all I need to know. Thank you.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #198)


Response to The Second Stone (Reply #29)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:20 PM

131. If you've spent your life fighting for equality, then you've already done more than most of us.

So relax, and try not to take things personally, is all I can say.

Just because there are a lot of bad white men out there doesn't mean we're all bad. And I don't think anyone on DU means to suggest otherwise.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #131)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:44 PM

137. I don't want to see the current "white privilege" meme

 

that is so popular gain any traction. Individuals can be jerks. White dudes are not jerks as a general principle.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth115056.html#92p7bM6DElaKcA4F.99

This is the dream that we and our forebearers fought for. Many died, many were injured, many psychologically scarred. We are called by this ideal to have high individual character, to treat people not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Each individual. Do not smear me and all white people with a quip about "privileged white dude" unless I or a specific person has done something specific.

Many of us know very well and with a heavy heart that good people have suffered, even died, with the last thing they ever heard being a reference to their skin color or ancestors. Please don't even look down that road, don't look down your nose at someone's skin color because they are, as an individual, ignorant and privileged. That kid from Princeton who wrote the piece for time magazine is ignorant and privileged, not because he is white, but because he, as an individual, came from a family with wealth and the privilege that brings and because he is young and ignorant, he doesn't know any better. Whoever flung "check your white privilege" and whoever flings it, is not being thoughtful and respectful and addressing the problem, they are summarizing in a bumper sticker style slogan that diminishes us.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:49 PM

37. Oh my.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #37)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:24 PM

132. ...

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:53 PM

43. this is a bogus way to discuss this issue

very transparently bogus.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #43)

Tue May 13, 2014, 12:57 PM

48. Only to those that are offended by the term White male privilege...

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:00 PM

50. 100% totally wrong

White privilege is a real thing and very worthy of discussion.

But this thread and others like it are bogus.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #50)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:15 PM

58. Apparently NOT...

 

its Bogus because White male privilege doesn't exist?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)


Response to Name removed (Reply #67)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:30 PM

69. It evolved in the 3 hours that you've been here?

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #69)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:35 PM

73. it's been a slow run

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #69)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:43 PM

82. LMAO

 

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Response to Name removed (Reply #67)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:31 PM

70. No we didn't...because you can be both and receive privilege from both

 

as a White male you are not likely to make 30% less because of your gender and....You are also only 13% of the population in poverty....

Here are some stats:

White male salary in 2010 100%

Black men 74.5% (of White men)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men)

White women 80.5% (of White men)
Black women 69.6% (of White men)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White men)

and this is JUST salary...not housing and other issues...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:43 AM

216. Bullshit.

 

I have no problem with the the concept and only object to the term because its academic meaning and colloquial usage have drifted apart (which created confusion). This line of argument though, with its implications that white men shouldn't propose solutions, is idiotic and counterproductive.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #43)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:12 PM

55. Yep. The "white privilege" discussion is becoming poisonous.

 

I think the OP is upset that rrneck in a separate thread revealed the exhaustion of the WP threads. I think few who demand "checking white privilege" really want to any resolution, or even any improvement. It has become an end in itself.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:14 PM

57. Does *any* one group really have *all* the cure for "white privilege"?

 

Or rather, the institutional barriers placed in front of People of Color? I don't think so, TBH. Often times, the most social progress is achieved when groups of people set aside their differences to focus on a goal, whether of "normal" status or disadvantaged. Look at the Civil Rights Movement for example.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #57)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:16 PM

61. One must agree an issue exists before they put their weight behind it.

If that can't be done, then any other "words" coming out of their mouth sound like bs to me.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #57)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:28 PM

133. Nobody said they did. But we need to stop splitting hairs over what to label the problem

and actually work on solutions. That much I agree with.

So basically, stop complaining about the phrase "white privilege" because it's not going away. And this isn't directed at you as an individual either, because several posters here have gotten bogged down in quibbling arguments like that.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #133)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:12 AM

179. Okay lets call it White Male Advantage.....does that suit your sensibilities?

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #179)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:18 AM

180. I wasn't one of the ones arguing against anybody's framing.

I was describing other people's reactions, not my own. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Personally I am totally in favor of using the phrase "white privilege" because it's concise and describes a very real phenomenon. Plus I don't feel it's my place as a white person to tell anyone how to talk about racism anyway.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #180)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:19 AM

182. Okay thank you for clarifying....I did misunderstand then sorry....

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:23 PM

64. If only our presidential and congressional candidates adopted white privilege as a campaign theme.

 

Why, we would sweep the nation, or at least a couple of precincts in Berkeley.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #64)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:38 PM

76. That sounds just like how some democrats handled gay marriage.

Say it's between a man and a woman, say it's states rights... to not lose an election. I guess if all gay people hadn't spoken up or said anything, thing would have been way more equal than they are today?

Boy, I would have thought you were way more courageous than what it seems you are.

It's got to start somewhere and it's about time it does start.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #76)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:48 PM

88. Gay marriage is an actual policy position. What's the policy associated with white privilege?

 

What is it exactly that our candidates are supposed to embrace?

"I"m sorry I'm white, and you should be, too. Vote for me!"

We have a long history of anti-racist politics in this country already. The white privilege meme doesn't seem like a very useful way of advancing that cause.

Boy, I would have thought you were way more intelligent that what it seems you are.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #88)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:51 PM

95. Gay marriage wasn't achieved by people keeping their mouths shut.

Our candidates are suppose to recognize that disparity exists, that privilege exists, so policies are created with those facts in mind.

Now, go insult someone else. I'm not going to alert, but your insult deserves a hide.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #95)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:14 PM

110. My insult was a direct response to yours. I even used the same sentence structure.

 

I guess you didn't notice that.

And I'm done here. You and your OP are a waste of my time.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #110)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:16 PM

111. Thank the lord! nt

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #64)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:49 PM

90. Best reply I've seen!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:27 PM

66. Your post, to me, comes off as if you're saying that 'white dudes' have nothing to contribute

to discussions and should not speak, but only listen. Am I off base when with my interpretation of what you're saying?

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Response to penultimate (Reply #66)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:35 PM

72. Wow, I wish persons who are so critical of what I write would

actually read through threads and educate themselves on the matter.

I'm not saying you alone, but gosh it's to seem that some think my post is way worse than others that actually deny privilege and then spout off on cures.

I understand what you say, but really... read the thread.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #72)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:49 PM

91. I'm reading through the thread and it's still unclear.

I wanted to ask in my own way, because I feel that often times people phrase their questions in a hostile way because they assume the intentions of others. I try not to assume the intentions of other as much as I possibly can, and much prefer to have explicit confirmations to ensure an understanding of others viewpoints. I find that makes discussions about these sorts of subjects far more enlightening and productive.

DU is a discussion board, and it seems reasonable to believe that your intent was to have your comment/observation discussed. The original post seemed more like a broad statement about white dudes in general, as opposed to a specific instance of a person speaking about something with authority from a point of ignorance. I see references from you in other parts of thread that may suggest you're speaking about a specific instance/person, but then there are other posts that go more toward a more broad statement being made.

So the reason I asked was so I could get a more accurate feeling for what you're getting at, without it being tainted by other's who may have asked similar questions that were tinged with a knee-jerk hostility toward your initial post.

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Response to penultimate (Reply #91)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:59 PM

102. well, sorry, it's not more clear to you. But it certainly is clear to many others.

When you see what I am talking about, PM me, so I know you and I are on the same page and you're not just singling me out. And maybe make a post questioning them. Now, that would be great.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:30 PM

68. Bilge. An idea is an idea is an idea; the colour of the person putting it forward is irrelevant. N.T

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:40 PM

78. My solution is

I don't give a crap, about who's yelling it and who's denying it. I really could care less. So why did I reply? Only to let it be known that some of us, and I bet there are quite a few, think it's all complete bullshit and are not going to play this game.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:42 PM

79. The cure won't come

 

from white dudes. It comes from black dudes overcoming it. President Obama found the cure and took a big dose of it. He won the majority approval of America twice over white privilege. Model yourself after him and succeed.

And FWIW, little old ladies lock their car doors when my ugly white ass walks by too. Wealthy people avoid the lobby doors to their condominium buildings if I'm standing outside waiting to be let in too. The sherrif clubbed me unconscious back in '81 when I got off of my Harley one night for a speeding ticket. Maybe because my Harley was black I don't know. But I can't simply dismiss it or every other time something goes wrong as racist.

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Response to SevenSixtyTwo (Reply #79)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:51 PM

93. How did the president get some and noone else?

Could it be he had green privilege?

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #93)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:27 PM

119. I like that better!

 

It's not white privilege, it's green privilege!

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Response to SevenSixtyTwo (Reply #119)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:32 PM

134. So what makes you think social class is so important, but race is irrelevant?

Seems to me they both have a major effect in shaping people's life circumstances.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #134)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:34 PM

140. I agree

 

But I think how we apply and present ourselves is more important than either. Many people of all races have overcome adversity and moved on to become great successes. More often than not, we're our own biggest obstacle.

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Response to SevenSixtyTwo (Reply #140)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:44 PM

172. I don't doubt that plenty of people of all backgrounds sabotage whatever chances they may have

in life, by various means. But focusing too much on individual effort and achievement tends to breed a sense of "I did it, so why can't everyone else???" Which, when we know little to nothing about a person's circumstances, can often be misguided.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #172)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:22 AM

186. Individual effort

 

is our best tool for success. I'll never be more than a greasy mechanic. I've reached my limit. But I'm going to be the best mechanic the company has. I might not have had to jump over that "white privilege" hurdle but, countless blacks have and have advanced far beyond anything I'll ever reach. "What can you do for me" is admitting defeat. "What can I do for you" is opening doors of opportunity for employment or business ownership. It might not be Microsoft, but it will be your success.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:45 PM

83. Claiming a "white dude" can't authentically contribute to a discussion about privilege is BS.

I'm not saying "white dudes" are the best at understanding privilege, and I'm sure many comments from this demographic will be too reductive or dismissive.

But summarily dismissing someone because they are a "white dude" is also destructive and reductive.

This is, yet again, another example of someone completely missing the point on the privilege discussion.

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Response to TeacherB87 (Reply #83)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:46 PM

85. Just so happens to be it is a white dude (s)

claiming privilege does not exist and then go on to state what the CURE is.

But I guess that is lost on you and you find my post much more offensive. So.be.it.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #85)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:51 PM

94. Your overgeneralization is offensive.

Just because it was a white guy claiming privilege does not exist does not mean all white men cannot productively contribute to the conversation. Would you have all white men stay out of the conversation? Because that seems counterintuitive. Those men need to be drug out of the woodwork and called out for what they are doing. If we shame them into inaction then their aberrant ideas are allowed to fester under the surface. I'm just not sure I see the point of you shaming "white dudes" here. Your post is neither helpful or productive.

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Response to TeacherB87 (Reply #94)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:52 PM

97. So, you don't like the (s) on the end of dudes. ok.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #97)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:11 PM

105. ...

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #105)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:14 PM

108. LOL!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #97)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:01 PM

115. I don't making sweeping generalizations about a group of people based on the actions of a few.

And an "s" isn't the only thing I would change about your post.

I am a white guy and have pushed back against the ignorant posts by some about how "white privilege" doesn't exist. I have also pushed back on the erroneous definitions for racism that get bandied about in these discussions. I am your ally here, not your enemy.

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Response to TeacherB87 (Reply #83)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:34 PM

135. Then "authentically contribute." No one's stopping you, or me.

The problem is when white people act like they know more about racism than people of color do. Same goes for men and sexism, straight people and homophobia, and so on.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #135)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:45 PM

143. I have already in several threads...here is an example. Let me know what you think.

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Response to TeacherB87 (Reply #143)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:51 PM

173. I think you're on the right track, absolutely. What trips some people up is that "privilege" doesn't

generally consist of obvious benefits or "extras" - and then there's the idea of a straight white non-disabled non-impoverished male playing life on the "easy" setting, whereas a better way to look at it might be as the "default" or "neutral" setting. In the sense that one can simply be considered a "generic" human being with no particular baggage attached, whereas others have all sorts of (usually negative) assumptions made about their character and/or motives. The lack of said baggage is privilege, in a nutshell.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 01:49 PM

89. As a white dude myself...

There are certain things I have learned:

1. White privilege in our culture is absolutely real. It is pervasive and deeply ingrained.
2. It is so subtle that most of the time I don't perceive it, even when I am benefitting from it.
3. There is no way in Hell I can even imagine what it's like to have lived my entire life on the wrong end of it.

So no, I certainly don't know the cure for this. What I can do is pledge to try to be more aware of it in my everyday life, and do my damndest to not perpetuate it.

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Response to jmondine (Reply #89)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:13 PM

107. Tired of people bitching for the sake of bitching.

Yes, white privilege is real. I don't know how to fix it. Come up with Solution and I'll listen, and if it's a good idea, I'll work to have it implemented.

But I'm sick of people lambasting me for my whiteness. I didn't choose to be white.

Don't we have important actionable things to do? Like oh, winning an election or two?

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #107)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:37 PM

136. "But I'm sick of people lambasting me for my whiteness. I didn't choose to be white."

You're certainly far from the first person to have the point sail over your head...

No, you didn't choose to be white, and neither did I. But personally I choose not to be closed off to the experiences and perspectives of those who don't share my skin color (or sexuality). I'm not saying anything about you personally, one way or the other, I'm just saying what I think is really at issue here.

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Response to jmondine (Reply #89)

Wed May 14, 2014, 11:34 AM

220. Good post

and I'd like to point out that I think #2 is a problem with a lot of people - it's so subtle they deny its very existence and are very defensive when someone suggests that they may benefit from something they don't believe exists. Sadly, by denying its very existence, they perpetuate it. IMO, that is why it's so important to make people aware of what it is...most people, once they are shown, understand. Unfortunately, there will always be a small subset of people who will take the suggestion of privilege as a personal attack on their own life. I don't know if it's because they are being willfully obtuse, or if they are worried subconsciously that acknowledging it means they will no longer benefit from it.

Anyway, I don't know the cure either, but I'm aware of it and I also do my damndest to not perpetuate it.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:11 PM

104. I ran this OP through Google Translate...

...and I think I see the problem.

Take for example the phrase "proclaim to know the cure for."

When you select the English to Stewing In Misdirected Resentment translation option, it becomes: "so I'm not allowed to say anything I guess."

Now, this could be a failure in the translation program.

Or it could reflect a deeper shortcoming of the Stewing In Misdirected Resentment dialect, which appears to lack much of the grammatical syntax needed for clear, linear reasoning.

Either way, until this language barrier can be overcome somehow, discussion of this topic (and many others) seems bound to result in endless sidetracks and outright derailments, making true dialog difficult if not impossible.

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Response to Zenlitened (Reply #104)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:12 PM

106. Do you save your comments for only maligning one side of the argument?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #106)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:36 PM

113. Generally, yes. The side I oppose or disagree with.

Assuming there are only two sides, of course.

But in any case I'm not sure I understand your question?

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Response to Zenlitened (Reply #113)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:37 PM

114. No, you answered just fine. thanks.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:27 PM

112. I guess we need the solution white-splained to us

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:11 PM

116. I'd be interested in hearing ANYONE'S cure, regardless of sex, gender, or color...

...but right now I've heard nothing.

Wait. I take that back. I heard 'Now go and get every white person in America to 'check their privilege' and get back with us'.

So, barring some kind of evidence to the contrary, the only presented answer thus far is an intentionally unreachable goal.

Making racism a permanent topic, helping no one, but making privilege overseers eternally politically relevant.

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Response to Shandris (Reply #116)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:15 PM

117. "I'd be interested in hearing ANYONE'S cure, regardless of sex, gender, or color..." This, x1,000.

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:29 PM

120. The problem I have with discussing "white privilege"

is that it doesn't provide any solutions. I'm pretty sure that most people here realize that white people generally have it easier than people of color, but what are we going to do about it besides throw insults at each other?

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #120)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:42 PM

122. Actually I can agree with this.

Besides, I doubt the problem is any one in this site to begin with.

It is only when, like I mentioned earlier, someone like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan talk about their work and then try to get rid of the securities and protections that they or their grandparents used to get ahead, that I have a problem.

Thing is though, at some point, someone has to back down.

I know that many can agree that there is some inherent advantages due to race, and that some really should step off, because they can't really do anything about it. People are born that way.

On the other hand, going off creating posts mentioning "poor me", I'm white and this is what is expected of me or I am blamed for this, just doesn't help things either. It sets people off, it basically proves to people that they don't know what they are talking about.

Then, comparing themselves to Asians, never considering that Asians have higher job expectations for them to receive comparative treatment. Sometimes though, when in a hole, please stop digging.

Let it go, talk about solutions.
Solutions such as affirmative action which have been hit hard by the Supreme Court.
Solutions such as actually improving public education, and figure out ways to reduce absenteeism.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #120)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:02 PM

124. Try this.

...

Examples of what people ACTUALLY mean when they say “Check Your Privilege.”

You are inserting yourself into a conversation where you shouldn’t be. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are making my pain about you. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are belittling my pain. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are making my fears concerns and troubles less important than your annoyance about me talking about my experience. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.


Now What?

If you believe that PoC want you to apologize for having white privilege, you are wrong. To be honest, I don’t get why you would think that in the first place. Let’s pretend for a second that I DO want you to apologize for having white privilege. Then, let’s pretend that you actually do apologize to me. How does that help me in ANY way? You see, some of you believe that we want to take away what you have or we want you to be ashamed of what you have. This is not the case. We want to be treated like human beings and we want you to understand that you don’t get to assert yourself or your feelings ABOUT OUR FEELINGS onto us or into our conversations.

...

http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/17004629556/white-privilege-now-what-other-such-fallacies

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Response to redqueen (Reply #124)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:09 PM

129. I know you seldom respond to me, but as a matter of point...

...allow me to point out that if one were to follow this 'article' (which doesn't speak for a group naturally, even though it refers to a group), one could simply ignore all matters pertaining to people of color -- including the existence of privilege itself -- and fulfill the request.

Is that where we're at now? Ignore everyone who isn't like you so you don't somehow 'make it about you'? It seems to me that that is how we got this problem started in the first place. That isn't a solution.

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Response to Shandris (Reply #129)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:25 PM

139. I think that is the approach of those denying privilege

Last edited Tue May 13, 2014, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

because what they are refusing to pay even a little attention to DUers of color. Not only that, they feel they should tell them what words they are allowed to use. I care a hell of a lot more what they have to say about racism than some folks who are freaked out that the subject is even discussed and effectively insist race doesn't matter by continually reference class. You have to put up with some people who disagree with you. How awful for you. Think about the racism people of color face everyday, and then they come here and learn that people who claim to be liberals don't give a shit.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #139)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:50 PM

164. I care about what everyone has to say about racism.

When I want to know what its like to -experience- it, I go to people who experience it. When I want to know whether something is useful or not in conversation, I go to those who experience it. People are free to 'disagree' all they want, that's fine. When it's not fine is when they begin to attribute thoughts, feelings, or beliefs to me that I don't espouse because that's the only way to make the disagreement fit the narrative.

If no one cared, people would simply do what I posted was possible; they'd ignore it entirely. And, according to the linked article, it would be a 'victory' for racism. Since that's not what I see happening, then either that definition posted is completely useless, or people care more than what you're attributing to them -- which is wholly in line with the expected attitude of a liberal site.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:39 PM

141. I don't pretend to know the solution for white privilege

However as a "white dude" I think I have some insight into what other "white dudes" are likely to listen to and what they are likely to just dismiss out of hand.

It really depends on whether you actually want to get "white dudes" to understand or if you rather are all about making poor "white dudes" in particular feel like bigger losers than they already do. "You played life on the ~easy~ setting and still lost, you really are a clueless dweeb".

The latter seems to be the aim of some around here, they never attack money, power or the wealthy (the vast majority of whom are white in this country) but rather go after the poor white schmuck who doesn't have two nickels to rub together.

The enemy of all of us who are struggling is not poor or even middle class whites, it's the damn ultra-wealthy and this whole "white privilege" discussion seems designed to avoid that fact.





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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:51 PM

144. Who are "These white dudes"

 

of which you speak?

What is the point of this OP?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:53 PM

145. And they are willing to share that cure

once AA's make amends to white people for making them feel bad.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:11 PM

155. What about us Jew dudes can we give an input or is strictly for others?

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Response to dilby (Reply #155)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:14 PM

159. Sure if its not diminishing the experience of those who live the negative effects

of this privilege.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #159)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:33 PM

162. So in your opinion I have to declare someone priviledged based on the pigmantation of their skin.

I feel like a racist already just thinking that I need to judge someone because they were not born the right color. I actually feel sick to my stomach as I look out my window and think that 9 out of the 10 people I see are lesser than me because they are not the right color. I feel empathy for our country because we have never moved to all men are equal only men are judged by the color of their skin. I can see how this works though as a Jew, Hitler blamed Jews for being successful he threw them up as privileged, he used them as examples on why Germans did not enjoy the same benefits as the Jews. Funny thing he never mentioned wealth, where are you at when it comes to the 99% vs the 1% are you closer to the 1% where you can throw racial bombs and not have to worry about consequence as you sit in your McMansion. I have you on my radar, I don't forget those who try to separate based on race.

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Response to dilby (Reply #162)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:37 PM

163. No, I think one who denies white privilege

has some real issues. I also think that someone who denies white privilege and then insists on telling minorities how they should speak about it and what words they can use, have some real issues. And I think that those who do all the prior, and then proclaim a cure, deserve to be called on it.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #163)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:53 PM

165. Then we have lost and the 1% has won.

You side with the 1% and you fight a war that is already over, instead of pulling your brother up you cast doubts upon him based on the color of his skin. There is a new war, it's one where sides are not based upon color but income. If you want to keep fighting your poverty stricken brother all while putting a dagger to his throat because you could not afford that AR-15 so be it. Me, my self I will actually fight against those who make it so we can't afford those AR-15's and are destined to stab our own in the back with rusty shanks we made out of our imagination.

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Response to dilby (Reply #165)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:57 PM

166. I'm not siding with the 1%.

Hey, you want to focus on only your white brethren by denying any additional obstacle race plays into, go for it. I however will continue to speak out and for those who have it even worse by recognizing their obstacles and hurdles. I don't have any clue how you think that supports the 1%. You got it all ass backwards.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #166)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:01 PM

168. I am a Jew we make up 2% of this country.

You want to say I am focusing on my brethren then fine yeah I hate seeing Jews being put down. But I wont sit by and watch stones throne at my Democrat Brother no matter what color he is.

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Response to dilby (Reply #168)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:06 PM

169. Join the club then. What the hell is it you think I'm doing?

Only one side gets to throw these stones, the other has to sit idly by and get pummeled.

Get a grip. It's obvious your type of view is some what common in progressive circles, shame that is. But you better expect some push back.

Go toss your dividing the democratic party on someone who might buy it. I could say it is those who believe as you who are doing the dividing.

Difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm not going to vote democratic, even though some of the things spouted here on the democratic message board make me want to hurl. Also, difference of opinion does mean I won't make some judgments on the person who is spouting them. You are free to do the same.

Now, I hope that allays your fears that I'm working for the 1%.

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Response to dilby (Reply #165)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:13 AM

197. You think siding with people of color is siding with the 1%?

Telling people of color and women to not fight for thier own rights and only fight against the 1% is saying, "We shouldn't talk about racism and sexism until there are no poor white men." And we know the history and know that no matter how things go economically in the US, people of color and women will always be left behind. (And IMO I'll say people of color more than women because I'll always ride my white husband's coattails.)

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Response to gollygee (Reply #197)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:07 AM

212. One hell of a leap of logic there, gollygee......nt

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:00 PM

167. I always thought it was in bad taste

for a member of the culture that oppressed another culture to claim they knew more about how to heal the scars than the members of the oppressed culture.

I see second generation fellow white people act like they know better what's going on between the races here than African Americans whose family has been here since the slave trade. I mean, shut up already. You don't know what's going on!

I would never suggest African American measures to heal their wounds were wrong. It's in bad taste and it is just a continuation of the racism.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:27 PM

171. You rang?



These are somebody elses words to me...

When you can't even bear to allow them to speak, to choose their own words, you make impossible such work toward shared goals.

It's not enough to tell those members what words they should use, but now you tell them what they should do.

If you insist on making these discussions about your feelings rather than the experiences of those subject to racism...

You are talking about forcing people to keep their mouths shut about racism and haul rocks because you want them to.

Refraining from telling them they shouldn't use words or discuss issues that some white posters don't like.

These are my words...

Talk about whatever you want.

Talk all you want, but talk is cheap.

Fine. Go for it. Nobody is stopping you

Discuss it all you want.

Talk is cheap if it's only talk.

Whatever you say.

Again, whatever you say. At this point neither of us knows what we are talking about. If you'd like to post some links or some comments made by others we could get some traction.

You guys need to get your story straight.


And as an added bonus...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024944558#post135

Edit to add:

I won't even try to count how many times I asked this:

Do you have a solution for the problem? All I got for an answer was "careful introspection".











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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:42 AM

185. So here's a test....

 

Which one of these statements is acceptable?:

1) And we should all just be blessed when these white dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.

2) And we should all just be blessed when these black dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.

3) And we should all just be blessed when these gay dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.

4) And we should all just be blessed when these Mexican dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.

5) All of the above

6) None of the above





The answer is 6.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:31 AM

188. I like when anyone thinks they know what's best for someone else

which is a broad brush. Like anyone outside of a any demographic would know what's best for that demographic.

White people have a multi-millenial history of know what's best for non-whites and that includes many white liberals today who are oblivious of their own white privilege that enables them to live a hippie lifestyle. There's a reason that liberals are very diverse but most hippies are white.

Men like to "mansplain" to women. Women do similar things to men, often in a more emotional guilt-trip manipulative way rather than logical. I'm sure it feels right to the ones who do it. I bet their intentions are honorable, as with most normal human beings.

Older folks always know that younger folks are so stupid and lazy they need someone else telling them to work harder and wise up, in a world that has completely transformed in many important ways from where we were just a few years ago let alone decades.

Younger folks have similar thoughts about how older folks are to blame for most problems and should have done things better.

Everyone always knows better. No one bothers to take the log out of their own eye before pointing out the dust in someone else's. Every time I point a finger at you, there's 3 pointing back at me. A fist is more effective. Its so easy to tell someone else to "suck it up", "bootstraps!", "be grateful", etc.

i'm guilty too. I'm looking for someone to blame for my impending job loss which will happen any day now. I'm a small minority, so maybe I'll blame white privilege. I'll be willfully oblivious to the fact that a big reason I got my job in the first place is because my white female boss was clearly stacking her group with diversity in order to build her coalition of support to propel her upwards, and it worked. My education/income privilege will help cushion my impending fall.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

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