What is the ultimate solution to income inequality in the US?

[Skip Intro]

Last edited Mon May 12, 2014, 12:15 AM - Edit history (2)

Is the inevitable solution to income inequality to pay everyone the same amount, regardless of job, or lack thereof? Is anything less than entirely equal pay really equality? Is anything less than equality really a cure for inequality?

Should the system be scrapped entirely, with everything being provided equally to everyone by the central office? No pay. No taxes. Contribute to society in some way, most will work, I’d assume, to keep things functioning, and we all get the same reward, dispensed by the government. Should it be that way or similar?



Bonus question: Is it really about equality of income, in the larger picture, or equality of outcome?

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Equality of outcome, equality of condition, or equality of results is a political concept which is central to some political ideologies and is used regularly in political discourse, often in contrast to the term equality of opportunity.[2] It describes a state in which people have approximately the same material wealth or in which the general economic conditions of their lives are similar. Achieving equal results generally entails reducing or eliminating material inequalities between individuals or households in a society, and usually involves a transfer of income or wealth from wealthier to poorer individuals, or adopting other measures to promote equality of condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_of_outcome

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on edit: narrowed the scope of the post to income inequality

[elleng]

1. Equality of opportunity,

which will NOT be ameliorated by equal 'income.' History needs to be rewritten.

[Skip Intro]

2. Equal income won't remedy income inequality? n/t

[elleng]

4. OPPORTUNITY doesn't mean income,

opportunity connotes education, culture, experiences. Obviously equal income remedies income inequality, but there is more to the country's problems, imo.

[Skip Intro]

5. True.

Maybe the OP is a bit clumsy. I started off writing about income inequality and tried, as I often do, to see the larger picture. However, there is a viable question there. Given the immense power of governments, especially Western governments, would such drastic steps as paying everyone the exact same wage solve income inequality, and if so, what other steps should governments take to ensure equality in all areas of human existence? Or should that even be tried?

I agree that equality of opportunity should be the goal.

[oneofthe99]

6. do you think if that was done that the most productive of our country now would still

work the same? I don't.....

[Skip Intro]

11. No, I don't. n/t

[oneofthe99]

15. That's why in my humble opinion equality will never be reached but

having the right kind of government that people can actually trust and believe
works for all citizens would go a long way in reaching some type of equality.

I'm not against a capitalist society because some people work hard for what they have and some people
are just plain lazy ...and that's the truth


What would help is to nationalize certain things like health care , energy , get rid of the federal reserve and the IRS
but at the same time have a government that you can trust . We need another body to collect taxes.
The tax code should be no more than 5 pages long ,not 10,000 pages

The IRS has become a legalized mafia that only serves the rich with it's tax loop holes.

[Skip Intro]

17. Wow, yes, I agree. But...

Aren't you in conflict by at once arguing that so much of the economy be nationalized - run by the government, that very, very few trust - while also describing the IRS quite correctly, imho.

[oneofthe99]

19. That's why I wrote the key is to trust your government

Right now they have lost that trust. I don't know how they will ever gain that back..

[Skip Intro]

22. Key problem. Here's a scary tangent -

The great power of this nation will be controlled by a few elected (and probably a few shadowy unelected too) office holders. Whether we like it or not. Obama turned out the vote, but much of that vote was for things undelivered. It was for the idea of change, rather than the specifics of change. Hence, the majority disapprove of him, his admin, the house, the Senate, etc. People, the people, of, for and by whom this country is supposed to revolve, do not trust their leaders or political establishments. Even here on DU, this is true.

Yet the power is there and it will be controlled and manipulated by those with agendas of which we are probably clueless.

So say trust doesn't return, but control grows. At some point, do those in control, despised and untrusted by the vast majority of the people, begin to force compliance? Drones, NSA spying, IRS enforcers - maybe those in charge, or those next to be in charge, don't care about or need approval or trust. Maybe they just need the power, and the manipulative and deceptive charade that surrounds it all?

[oneofthe99]

23. This is just opinion but I blame us the people as much as our government

I believe in the saying people get the government they deserve.


I believe that the reason they get away with what they do is because most people
don't care enough to get involved and educate them selves on what's going on.

I wish everyone was like DU members in this country whether they are on the right or the left . Makes no difference to me.
Just understand every vote being taken by congress , what the implications are to this country and when the Presidents says he wants
to push a certain agenda ... ...take the time to understand it

As to your thought , it's scary to even think about. We see it in other countries but we like to think it would never happen here.

I don't know anymore..

[elleng]

8. A fine goal,

but given human nature, seeking to ensure equality in all areas of human existence would be a futile endeavor. imo.

[yawnmaster]

10. interesting thought experiment at the very least...

there would have to be more to the process than just equal wages for everyone.
Since not jobs are equal (based either on its difficulty, desirability, skill level, etc.), how would ensuring that all needed positions are filled and a diverse functional job base is maintained?

[Skip Intro]

13. Bingo. Yes. It is exactly that - a thought experiment.

Many questions. If the power to do whatever was deemed the right remedy, what would that remedy look like, and how would it be implemented, and what effect would it be likely to produce. I don't know. Would a congressperson make as much as a McDonald's assistant manager? Would the assistant manager make more than the new-hire french fry person? Why or why not?

[yawnmaster]

3. inequality of what?

some inequalities can never be solved.
Humans are variant (as is everything).
Diversity requires variation and variation means inequalities.

opportunity equality is something to be worked for.
justice equality is another.
There are many more.

[Electric Monk]

7. You consider yourself a Christian, right?

It’s not ‘class warfare,’ it’s Christianity

[Skip Intro]

9. .

I am not the topic, EM. You have attacked me personally, repeatedly, for more than a year.

I don't have any desire to discuss my religious beliefs, or anything else, for that matter, with you.

[Electric Monk]

12. Oh, I already knew you weren't here to discuss. I thought I'd try anyway though.

"I like CjeekDgg"

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Do what worked before.

What we did from 1933 to the mid-1970s. Liberal policies. Big taxes on rich people and corporations. Way-lower taxes on working America. Apply the legal system to bankers. Reinstate Glass-Steagall. Encourage unions. Tariffs.

[Enthusiast]

26. Plus one a whole bunch.

We have a formula for success but we seem to have adopted the Grover Norquist plan instead.

[Gravitycollapse]

16. There is no way to ultimately do away with inequality in a capitalist system.

Thus there is no solution to your answer besides abandoning capitalism. In a capitalist society, there are only measures which can be taken to give enough concessions to those whose labor is exploited to create the illusion of equality.

[Enthusiast]

27. Few of us expect to do away with all inequality. It isn't realistic.

Most of us just want greater equality which can be accomplished through regulation and taxes.

After decades of deregulation and tax cuts we find ourselves in a very bad spot. But we know from history that things can be much better.

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. It's about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes.

Unfortunately the distorting effects of disproportionate control of wealth by a small elite severely limit equality of opportunity for everyone else.

See the following for instance:

an emerging body of evidence suggests that more inequality of incomes in the present is likely to make family background play a stronger role in determining the adult outcomes of young people, with their own hard work playing a commensurately weaker role. The OECD (2011a, p. 40) has gone so far as to state that rising income inequality “can stifle upward social mobility, making it harder for talented and hard-working people to get the rewards they deserve. Intergenerational earnings mobility is low in countries with high inequality such as Italy, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and much higher in the Nordic countries, where income is distributed more evenly.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp7520.pdf

[mazzarro]

24. Probably another aspect is to ask - What is the ultimate cost of income inequality?

The lack of appropriate income for some in the society must have a cost that is at moment not taken into account. For a lost of those that are at the low end of income scale, there are opportunities that have been lost for lack of resource to pursue ideas or opportunities that could have benefited the society and indeed the persons themselves.

[Prophet 451]

25. I can think of several possibilities

1) Reformation of tax policies, shifting the tax burden onto the rich complete with higher rates of taxation on larger incomes (as a personal rule, I think it should top out at 50%).

2) Expansion of Earned Income Tax Credit, Medicare and Medicaid.

3) A guaranteed minimum income and/or higher minimum wage. We can quibble about the exact numbers some other time. My point is that a single full-time job should provide enough to lift a family of three above the poverty level and, if not, the state should supplement wages.

4) The state becomes the employer of last resort. An extension of the above. When the individual is unable to find work, the state directly employs them. The US has people out of work, it also has a crumbling infrastructure. Hire the one to fix the other.

5) Free tuition at a college or tradeschool. Ideally, there would also be some kind of arrangement to support those doing internships or apprenticeships in professions where that's the normal method of entry.

[pampango]

28. Do what FDR did - progressive taxes, better safety net, union protections, tighter regulation,

expansive fiscal policy and promote trade.

Not coincidentally, those are all policies that modern countries with the best income equality follow.

[WinkyDink]

29. See: Taxation before Reagan Presidency.

Besides the revolution that will not come and would be vanquished by the 1%'s military if it did?

[Adrahil]

30. Heck, it doesn't even have to be about "equality"

"Equality" implies that our goal should be to enforce some sort of leveling of outcome. Not only is that unnecessary, it's not ultimately healthy for the economy and for even for individuals. BUT... The high concentration of wealth in every increasing intensity is devastating. Not only does it lead to the stagnation or even decline of largely consumer-based economy, but it leads, as we've seen, to the corruption of the political system. I often disagree with Manny on the details, but he's right about this. We know what to do about this. We did with great success before. We need aggressive tax policies that counteract the wealth concentration inherit in capitalism. We need to encourage unions (though, IMO, with eye towards preventing corrupt mega unions), and tariffs to help flatten the effects of lower wages abroad.

[safeinOhio]

31. Tax wealth, not income.

The rich have too many loop holes to tax income. 10% of wealth on the rich would about pay for everything.

[OLDMDDEM]

32. income inequality

I'm now into my retirement years age-wise and am still working. I do this so when the time comes, social security will be paying me the extra 8 percent per year that I don't draw it that is due me when I start getting it when I turn 70. In other words, my social security will increase by 32 percent when I reach age 70, if I do not start drawing it until then. The Great Recession killed my 401k. If companies value their employees work, the large bonuses going to the top level people would be spread among the workers also. Instead of a $10 million bonus to the CEO, give that person $2 million and spread the rest among the employees. Productivity and morale would go through the roof, creating a circle of more bonuses and better productivity, etc, etc.

If management simply cared. That's all people are asking. It doesn't take much to please the worker. Just recognition of a job well done. A decent pay raise and paid time off, as well as the possibility of merit bonuses is all people are asking. This is really what unions fought for in the 20th century. I used to be a teamster and marveled at how lucky I was to have the benefits I had. That was 40+ years ago. Now, my benefits aren't as good, but still okay. Every year we have had bonuses paid to us and that has helped. People understand that management makes more money but the outrageous bonuses and, in some cases, salaries paid to high level individuals are what exposes the company to ridicule. No one, and I really mean no one, is worth millions of dollars per year. That is a ridiculous waste of money that could have been better spent making the company a better place to work.

[RainDog]

33. Basic Living Income

That is higher than the rate of poverty, indexed to inflation and achieved by a tax on wealth, not income.

Everyone receives it. Those who don't need it return it in their taxes.

[Blue_Tires]

34. from my view

1. Higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations
2. Eliminating ouside money from political races, which is one of the things that keeps perpetuating the cycle
3. Severe penalties for corporations who send their jobs overseas, or insource foreign workers...
4. A complete housecleaning of the 'anything goes' nature of the stock market....

[Starry Messenger]

35. What is it about the current system that is working out for you?

[Fumesucker]

36. Pretty much the same as the ultimate solution to social inequality in the US

Just make everyone unprivileged and poor and both problems are solved.



Except for the trillionaire of course, how would the politicians know what was the right thing to do without the trillionaire to tell them?

And then everyone will be equal except for one guy and I guess he would just have to suffer being so different from everyone else.

It's kind of opposite day or bizzarro world version of The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.

[rock]

37. Let the workers decide what management gets paid

!