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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOkay, DU. "It has been kind of hot in here around the topic of race/privilege ...
So be honest, have these threads made you think that you are more, less or agnostic on whether you will vote Democratic in 2014 and beyond?
Do you think an observer would be swayed one way or the other?"
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Egnever
(21,506 posts)They have little or nothing to do with democrats.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)Yet you say discussions of race have nothing to do with Democrats? 
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Bravo.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Due to the fact that a majority of nonwhite voter are democrats.
How you read that as BainsBane considering it a problem is beyond my comprehension. Maybe you could explain.
Edit: Turns out a fifteen-hour shift kills my ability to spell. G'lawrd
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)I am saying that considering issues of race to be unrelated to the party is a problem. The experiences of African Americans and other people of color matter. Privilege--whether race, class, gender, or sexuality--matters. These are issues that play a role in public policy: the death penalty, the legal and penal system; violations of Title IX on college campuses due to inadequate efforts to deal with rape; education policy more generally; marriage equality; human rights; voting rights; economic justice, on and on. Because the Democratic Party is majority people of color and women, the ongoing insistence by a number of DUers that issues of race and gender are not political or important is offensively dismissive.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)It is the basis of being a democrat.
Equality for al,l what else is there?
Bottom line?
I am not voting because of taxes I will tell you that.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)to believe that most of the issues you mentioned are not race or gender issues, but much wider. For example, I do not consider the death penalty to be a racial issue. Many do.
Not saying race and gender aren't issues, but making everything into race and gender is not the road to a solution for many of us. Some would even say its counterproductive.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)You are ignoring reality. That seems to be common around here. The death penalty is racist. It targets African Americans disproportionately. To pretend otherwise is to close one's eyes to reality. Al of the rest of those issues deal with inequality and civil rights. Those are not minor issues. It is impossible to have even a minimal understanding of the death penalty or penal system in this country without understanding the way in which it is used against people of color.
As for your comment about "gender baiting." No one "baits." What BS. We discuss ideas we care about. You don't care about those issues. That's your right. But to demean them with right-wing terms like gender and race baiting is insulting.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)everyone else must see it the same way.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)Indeed.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)the death penalty without regard to who it targets. I take a wider view. I don't believe it's wrong because it targets people of color, I believe it's just wrong. I don't see it as a race issue.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)So you chose to do ignore a part of the problem.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)without paying attention that they targeted black people? How about thinking the Holocaust was bad without paying attention to the fact that Jews were its principal target? Would that make sense?
The racism of the death penalty demonstrates why it so unfair and not simply a response to heinous crime. There are many arguments against the death penalty. Arguing it is wrong may be enough for you, but it's not enough to convince a death penalty proponent or a court. That its implementation violates the 14th Amendment has a chance of being successful. Moreover, I have trouble believing you can really care very much about the death penalty is you haven't bothered to acquaint yourself on how it is applied.
Other points in my post related directed to subject positions: Title IX is about women. Efforts to keep people of color from voting is clearly entirely about racism and the fact those voters tend to support Democrats.
Closing one's eyes to reality doesn't do anyone any good. It only results in blindness.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Then I guess it's just an unfortunate coincidence that most people on death row are black... 
RobinA
(9,888 posts)has nothing to do with my opposition to the death penalty.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Main one being that there's no such thing as an infallible legal system, so some number of innocent people will always be wrongly convicted no matter what.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)This is Democratic underground not freeperville . The vast majority of the people here are democrats because they believe in equal rights for all people be they black grey white green gay or whatever you want to call them.
It is the single biggest reason I vote for democrats.
I dont get the huge sense of outrage directed at DUers on race equality or gender equality.
I think it is pretty much a given it is what the vast majority of people on this board care about.
So the only effect these race baiting and gender war threads have had on me is to annoy me.
Yes we are aware that the problems exist we are democrats in large part because of it...
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Do a poll. Do one every day for the next week.
You will find time and time again it is.
One or two poorly worded posts or loud posters on the contrary side are not evidence of something else.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)sympathies lie?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)is race-baiting and/or inciting gender wars?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)but largely lately, yup that is what I am seeing.
That is my opinion your mileage may vary.
You asked.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It apparently is. You have to stick to the regularly prepared liberal issues manual.
The things you speak of are in the back of the manual in the section labled " Things we do not speak of, because some may find it unhelpful to their agenda".
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)damn those temps and interns!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)but they sure as fuck are not the biggest issues for women these days.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I also do not find them to be my main issues.
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)No AA issues, No women's issues because they are so very divisive. Hmmm Really? Seems some here would like to shut us up and shut us down. Funny that, since AA and women are a huge voting block for the Democratic party.
I will tell you what is divisive here. It's the constant bashing of this President. No matter what he does it is never enough, ever.
Well the way I see it. We will not shut up and We will not sit down!
Gotta run bravenak, I will be back later.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I find that it is not in my nature to shut up. I'd rather die than go along with the status quo. 
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)or actions isn't bashing, remember?
But criticism of the white, male supremacy status quo, in society, the Democratic Party and/or this board of liberals and progressive IS bashing! Funny how that works out, huh?
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)I mean they voted for Obama not once but twice!!1! So they hold his feet to the fire, because he told us too! Never mind that we have a very "white male supremacy" in control of the house, acting like petulant children, trying to see that the black man in the WH fails.
Funny how they never criticize them, for blocking the closure of Gitmo, denying a jobs bill, denying an extension of unemployment benefits etc etc etc.
Yes, 1SBM, funny that.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)sheshe2
(83,723 posts)You bad msanthrope. 
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hell to the naw!!!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Discussing issues regarding racism or sexism is perceived as "bashing people over the head" by some and "annoying" by others and I really wonder why discussions of these issues bother them.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)"I really wonder why discussions of these issues bother them."
...nameless poster a while ago claim that it's because they are "distractions" from "more important" issues.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Neat!
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Nobody is forcing anyone to participate in discussions which they personally consider unimportant.
Those that jump in to ignorantly proclaim that racism isn't a big problem, that white privilege doesn't exist, that racism 'goes both ways', that rape culture doesn't exist, that street harassment is no big deal, etc. etc. ad nauseam - they're the ones that deserve the ire of those who are concerned about equality.
Accusations of "searching for reasons to attack people" kinda... well..
Yeah.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)It's the constant search for reasons to attack people fighting and voting to try to address those issues that gets tiring.
You are well aware of that I am quite sure.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)You might stop and consider why you think discussions about racism and misogyny are an attack on people here.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Do you see the disconnect?
It's only bad if it is directed at you.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)I clearly did not say that "everyone is shouting (me) down".
And you clearly aren't paying attention.
Gee, I wonder why.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)but we are just going in circles.
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)Yet they make it about themselves. Some may say that they doth protest to much.
Just saying.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)do you get pissed off when you see posts about Wall Street? The majority agree about how nuts the Republican party is. Do you get mad when you see posts about that? The majority oppose military intervention. Do you get mad when you see posts talking about US interventions or military spending? So why is it that you get mad when you see posts that discuss the experiences of subaltern groups? Why is we, the majority voters in the party, who have to remain silent about issues of concern to us in order to make you feel better?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)And that is what I see here in most of these posts.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)As 1strongblackman explained in another thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4925485
What you don't want is to hear about the view on the other side of that divide.
Moreover, people argue on every issue under the sun, from Snowden to Obamacare, Hillary Clinton, and everything else. Yet you single out the voices of people of color and feminists to denounce.
First you say we all agree. Then you say you don't like to see Democrats divided. These arguments contradict each other. They do not hold up to scrutiny since there are scores of others subjects around which people agree and disagree that you don't object to.
This strikes me as a demonstration of entitlement: if it's not about you and what you think is important, it is not legitimate.
Every time someone tells people of color, feminists, and members of other subaltern groups that there concerns are illegitimate or too divisive to be discussed, they only deepen that divide you want to pretend doesn't exist.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You should copy this and save it and then paste it every time this issue comes up.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)that the gender and race concerns are illegitimate or too divisive to discuss, it's the baiting that seems to go along with it.
I am female and want no part of what passes for discussion of gender issues on DU. As an American and a female, my most important issues at the moment are Quantanamo, internal spying, and corporate greed. I only rarely touch gender or race threads because they generally involve a lot of name calling and screaming by the very people who like to believe they are preaching toleration.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
Number23
(24,544 posts)Holy shit. There it is.
Too bad it won't make ONE DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE. BainsBane
(53,027 posts)It's all very frustrating.
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)When you think you have the privilege to decided what issues are "important" or "divisive."
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
tavalon
(27,985 posts)I believe you completely missed the point. Whether you agree with the point or not, it's important to know what the point is that is being made.
Squinch
(50,935 posts)RobinA
(9,888 posts)that the discussions ON HERE have nothing to do with Democrats in a larger sense. I point with which I agree. The discussions on DU, which just make me shake my head, have no effect on whether I would vote Democrat in the future. The actions of actual Democrats in the real world...well, that's another story.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)Because in real life I don't know people who ignore basic issues and concerns pertinent to the majority of the population, or who live in some reactionary world where people close their eyes to race and gender. But then I live in a very diverse urban area and work at a university. I work with educated people who see nothing controversial about understanding basic concepts of race, class, and gender, any more than they see climate change as a librul conspiracy. When I volunteer for the Democratic Party, I canvass neighborhoods in my city populated by African Americans, Muslims, Tribal Peoples, Hispanics, and progressive whites because that is the make up of the city I live in. Anyone of those Democrats of color knows that their race/ethnicity is always at issue when dealing with our city's racist police force. They don't have the luxury of pretending the penal system and other issues don't have anything to do with race because their daily experiences prove otherwise.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And btw, I for one, know DAMN well that racism is still a problem in this country. But it doesn't help that a certain few individuals have ended up getting all high-and-mighty and extra defensive over someone disagreeing with them on whatever.....
And for the record, I'm still an Obama supporter. Always will be from this point forward.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Remember how shocked Karl rove was? You crack me up.
He's spot on.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)And they were just as wrong as you for not believing him.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)have given you more accurate information then his scientific surveys.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I should know better.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have to do it! It's my job!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I have to do it too! :smile:
Egnever
(21,506 posts)
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)The ones that say that he has done nothing and that he is Bush lite. The ones that call this President a POS, with hundreds of posters rec'ing them on. Where have you said that this makes you sick and tired? Do you consider them divisive or not?
Yet you have a problem with AA and women's threads.
Ah, it is nit-picking.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nitpicking
Let me just say, we have a voice here too. No one has a right to explain what we really believe or what we feel or what we have personally experienced. One needs to actually listen to what is being said. Listen and learn. If you have not walked it, you can not understand what a person has gone through. Have you been stopped and frisked before for walking while black? No me either. So I have no right to tell them how they should feel. However I have experienced spousal abuse, both verbal and physical. I have never figured out which one was worse as they both hurt your soul.
High-and-mighty.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/high-and-mighty
Is that like uppity? AA and women are uppity?
Taking liberties or assuming airs beyond one's place in a social heirarchy. Assuming equality with someone higher up the social ladder.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity
We all need to listen and learn.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)With that said, I'd like to set the record straight on a few things:
The ones that say that he has done nothing and that he is Bush lite. The ones that call this President a POS, with hundreds of posters rec'ing them on. Where have you said that this makes you sick and tired? Do you consider them divisive or not?
I'm honestly surprised. Because I'm a fairly active commenter and there's probably quite a few people who can testify on my behalf that I got *quite* tired of dealing with that stuff.
Yet you have a problem with AA and women's threads.
I really don't, actually. On the contrary, I've actually found many to be enlightening. Check my recent comments on niyad's bicycle thread if you'd like:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4923325
Honestly, the only problem I've really had for the most part is with flamebait, trolling, etc., on the comments boards, and 90% of it seems to have come from a very small group of individuals.
Is that like uppity? AA and women are uppity?
I'm not saying that at all. I was referring to a certain few individuals whom were acting in a certain manner because I offered a different POV.
Let me just say, we have a voice here too.
Okay, and nobody has a problem with that.
No one has a right to explain what we really believe or what we feel or what we have personally experienced.
And I haven't done that myself.
One needs to actually listen to what is being said. Listen and learn. If you have not walked it, you can not understand what a person has gone through. Have you been stopped and frisked before for walking while black? No me either.
Yes, I get what you're saying. But listening is a two-way street, too, that's all.
However I have experienced spousal abuse, both verbal and physical. I have never figured out which one was worse as they both hurt your soul.
My sincere condolences to you. Nobody deserves to suffer like that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's either this or the gop.
The fact that some people can't accept reality wont affect my vote.
But the casual observer reading through the threads may not see much difference between the parties on these issues. That graph from Nate Silver really opened up my eyes to how much work there stiil is to do. According to the graphs there is not much difference between republicans and democrats on race issues.
I wish i could say i was surprised. But i rarely am.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024926461#post28
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)In some ways it was surprising, yet in other ways--based on recent experiences--not so much. I'd love to see some similar data on issues regarding women.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Trying to tell certain people these things makes them get all pissed off. I want nate to do a sexism chart. I wonder what surprises will be in there.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)A couple of percentage points difference was HUGE. That was just as bad.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And they were proud. Like they figured out a loophole.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)The status quo is A-Okay with me.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The lengths people will go to to pretend nothing is wrong drives me nuts.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Sounds like progress to me.
Supersedeas
(20,630 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)already was a conservative and they are full of shit.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)That he wasn't voting because of how mean "extremist" feminists on DU have been to him. He is going to eat waffles and pancakes on voting day instead. He's still a member.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)has said the same thing because of how mean PoC have been to straight white men.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)humanism, not feminism, man. Because it's fairer, to like ... people.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)reading DU makes me more cynical about the future. It used to give me hope.
I think the window of opportunities is pretty smudged and there ain't no one around who can clean it up. I think its all these kids with their noses pressed to the glass that has made it smudged. And more than one old timer, too.
Given AGW, nukes, age of oil burning out, tbaggers, pukelicans and free-roaming banksters, stolen elections, polluted waters, population increase and all that, all i can say is it has been quite a ride.
I think observers grok it. What about you?
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)How some folks reply to some issues on a message board does not affect how I vote.
I believe most on the site feel the same about core issues (racism/sexism/welfare/corporations/etc) but differ in how they discuss the issues and apply their ideals to certain situations. One event/action can be looked at through many lenses which can cause conflict when discussing an issue on a micro level. The problem comes in when someone says you are x because you didn't agree with them on your take of the issue presented.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)DFW
(54,330 posts)Especially this board. We have an incredibly diverse membership, and some posters seem to have a hard time seeing that others will be posting from a life situation they will never be confronted with. Some will be jealous. Some will breathe a sigh of relief.
An inner city poster with job and/or health issues won't be coming from anywhere near the same place as someone in a rural area with meager, if tenuous, means to get by. A white poster with a decent job and good health coverage will have a hard time putting him- or herself in the same shoes as a single parent of color who can't find a job that allows them to support and care for a child/children. On a board with people from the 1% to the lower rungs of the 47%, we have to allow for people posting from lives we have never experienced on our own.
We can try to shout louder, or we can listen. It's not easy to do both at the same time.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I'm a sure thing, no matter how annoyed I get.
But yes, I do think that it sways observers, and I think these themes are one of the reasons that young men are latching on to libertarianism.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)otherwise they'd quickly find out what a crock of shit it is.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)pay little attention to politics and want to appear "above it all."
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Just like conscientious Anarchists (they're not all punks with black bandannas). However, they are extremely rare.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Like a lot of people, when they are older they might find something in politics that hooks their self interest and start voting.
I think a lot of young people do not see a connection to politics effecting their day to day lives. I always have, but I was raised to give a shit about my community. If we were doing more to reverse the loss of jobs these days, I think that might change.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I see this a lot.
q) "Why don't they vote for us?"
a) "Because they're stupid and smell funny."
I saw it on prominent display in a thread in TMG asking how to get men to vote for democrats. I think it's a politically immature viewpoint.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)chasing, because they already think they are "participating" politically, bless their hearts. I haven't looked that thread in a long time, sorry it went south. It was probably the best idea for a thread I ever saw in TMG. I will have to look.
I think jobs is across the board #1. Jobs and getting back to our core liberal values, shifting away from incarcerating our youth for non violent offences or sending them off to the military, and for women securing full reproductive rights nationally.
But chasing Libertarians? Mostly a waste of time. If they cannot see in this day and age that corporations need more regulation, they are idiots.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Those threads have a high probability of ending up instantly trashed when I see them.
What observers may think of those threads, don't know, and don't care.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)With some of those threads it seems there is a swarm ready to pounce if someone who replies in them deviates one inch from the answer the swarm wants, hell, not just wants, but demands. Lock-steppers only need apply!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)No accusations on the NSA and 3rd Way threads, that you don't seem to trash.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)It's better than coming in and telling us we are posting flamebait and shouldn't be discussing these issues at all.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Because that has become a settled issue to me, I don't see the point of posting any longer about it. But I trash all kinds of threads, if you must know. Even threads I may tend to agree with, if I'm not interested in posting in them, just to get rid of clutter and make new topics and threads easier to see.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)There is a difference between:
Or, trashing threads because:
And trashing a thread because there are too many accusations.
Just say ...
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)A pre-packaged response, reminds me of that prison joke:
Young punk is sent to the big house for the first time, and strut as he might, is scared shitless. His cellmate doesn't talk to him. Night falls. Suddenly, a prisoner shouts "28!" Laughter breaks out. Another: "40!" More laughter. A third: "14!" The cell block roars.
The kid is confused, and finally asks the lifer cellmate, "why is everyone laughing at those numbers?" The lifer answers, "well, kid we've told the same jokes so often, we gave 'em numbers, saves time."
The kid relaxes and listens for a while, then finally blurts out: "22!"
Silence, then fretful murmuring.
The punk's fears return. He turns toward his cellmate: "Did I tell the wrong joke?" The cellmate answers: "No, kid, you told it all wrong."
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)
You could basically say "are you an angry white man who's tired of being told how privileged you are because of your race and gender? Do you wish minorities would just shut up, because a black president means racism obviously isn't a problem anymore? Do you think feminism is an insidious plot to castrate men and impose female domination? Don't worry, you don't have to vote Republican, there is a home for you in the Democratic Party!" I'm not sure that's the appropriate message to be sending, but, that's what a lot of people sound like, really. (It's probably just a reflection of how overwhelmingly white, male, and old DU is, demographically speaking, though.)
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Have not noticed anyone argue that considering priviledge is way to get votes- I am pretty sure that poster is imagining things.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)there's this reply:
Period.
"Why the women's ___________ is garbage".
I challenge you to fill in the blanks with any two words that wouldn't alienate women.
It's up to each man to decide what being a man means. I'm all about rejecting strictly enforced gender roles, but rarely does anyone ask him or her for his decision on that matter. In other words, it's not about personal autonomy, but replacement of one paradigm with another.
"Alienates men? So what? More women vote."
There's a schizophrenic quality to conversations about the gender gap; e.g. it's a good thing because the oppressed minority should use their voting bloc dominance to crush the oppressors. It unfortunately ignores a reality that as women marry and start families, their voting patterns change but their husbands do not. 53% of married women voted for Romney.
To resolve any of the issues that the OP is purportedly intended to address, we need more men to vote for Democrats.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024828729#post54
Egnever
(21,506 posts)has nothing to do with the hypocrisy of demanding links from others but refusing to provide them yourself. Nice of you to go search for an example for them though.
Of course you have to ignore the post it is in response to one that claims all mens issues are garbage to make if fit the scenario you are looking for but we will pretend it was an example.
If we flipped those posts and said all AA issues are garbage would we not be alienating AA people?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)The Men's Rights Movement actually is garbage, btw.
Nice try, though. 
Egnever
(21,506 posts)The fact remains it's divisive bullshit with no intention other than to create animosity
Just as it would be if it said all AA issues are garbage or all women's issues are garbage.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)If someone says the Black Separatist Movement is garbage, it doesn't mean they think all AA issues are garbage.
If someone says TERFs are garbage, that isn't the same as saying "all women's issues" are garbage.
All that aside, the bottom line is that people on DU have said that discussing privilege can drive away voters (which is absurd, of course), and I provided a link to an example.
Sorry if that blows up your little argument with bettyellen.
Have a nice weekend.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is a sure-fire vote winner. I am sure whoever the nominee is will adopt this as a major part of her or his strategy in 2014.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Yeah, I think you might have missed the point.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)How is that post "telling white people that they should vote Democratic because of their privilege?"
I read that post as pointing out that others have indicated that people WON'T vote democratic because they don't like discussions of privilege.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I thought all my reading comprehension skills had gone poof!
I read it the same way ... and I read it that way when a DUer said that people WON'T vote democratic because they don't like discussions of privilege.
(That was in a/the "What Democrats need to do to attract rural white voters" ... I'll go look for the OP)
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Poster says they perceive discussions one way Betty demands links and is incensed they aren't provided.
poster that demands links makes a claim then is asked for the same she demands of others but cant be bothered because it is just idiotic crap.
Real easy to figure out the hypocrisy if you are bothering to try.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)that points to someone "telling white people that they should vote Democratic because of their privilege." I haven't seen anyone saying that on DU.
However, I *have* seen people saying what bettyellen describes.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Care to link those threads you have seen that claim white guys are going to vote republican because of the racial threads?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4925619there were a bunch more in that thread, but thankfully, the troll (who signed up multiple times) got banned. Prior to that, he was here for a while (MO_Moderate).
ETA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4930875
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I don't think most of this thread means what you think it does. My condolences.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)I find your inability to grasp that or pretense of not grasping that quite telling and yet another example of why these threads annoy me.
It's pretty clear you have no problem accusing du of all kinds of ridiculous stuff with no evidence of it whatsoever but god forbid someone else do the same. Then you get all righteous with indignation and demand links.
Pot meet kettle
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)slogan. I have seen a lot here, but never a single person suggesting that. But you have been misreading much here, and despite having that pointed out to you, you persist. Not knocking my head against the wall for you. I get it, the misunderstandings are a fun little game for you. Good luck with that.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)and apparently can not tolerate any differing opinion. All the while demanding of others what you will not provide yourself.
It is right here for all to see I even provided links
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)for both bigotry and bullshit. Sometimes zero tolerance is actually a good thing! Only idiot libertarians think otherwise.
Supersedeas
(20,630 posts)
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)Who the hell actually argues that white privledge is not real, harmful and a part of racism? Well I know who but it gives me a headache.
I've taken college courses on race and race relations and the history of racism. They might have increased my awareness, (and you bet I still "check my privilege --partly because it's the right thing to do and partly because I don't want to sound like a racist asshole when I open my mouth on anything to do with race) but those classes didn't take one iota of my personal white privilege away. (And I can tell a story of personal poverty, and not having enough, kids not having enough--doesn't matter in the bigger picture)
Anyway--that's a really good question. I wanted to say "no" then I read your caveat "observer" and I became much less sure.
I'm lucky enough to live on the blue side of a purple state. I vote Democrat.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)It's simply the right thing to do.
name not needed
(11,660 posts)Get on my level, shitlord.
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)You might hurt my feelings.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)would argue the same, but they re all republicans. Funny, that!
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)I don't get it.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)check my privilege all the way back in the '70's when poverty was the issue, but I called it my "luck" at the time. Before it became a thing. Now that it's crammed down my throat and I get lectured to about it I don't do it anymore.
As a person of gender, I don't consider myself dis-privileged. Men have their privileges, woman have their privileges. Work needs to be done, but it's a two way street.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)As some like to spew in these parts, I know there are less racially divisive asses on the right by far...
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Maybe you should try to persuade people on notdemocraticunderground or something like that, if it is your intention to change the vote intention due to the issue of race/privilege. I just don't see why that discussion would change anyone's inclination to vote dem.
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)some have been quite public about it. Some threads announcing decisions to leave the party have gotten a lot of recommendations.
name not needed
(11,660 posts)Plus, I don't take this place seriously enough to let the neverending shitfest determine my voting habits.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Nobody's going to love me here for writing this, but you asked and you said to be honest. So I'm answering and being honest.
Honestly, I suspect the party may try to create and inflame racial animosity in order to motivate the Black voting block. I think the strategy is being implemented now. Critics of Obama, even Democratic ones, have long been dismissed as racist, and I believe that a wider type of this tired political strategy will be minimally effective this November, but I believe it will be a major focus of Democrats nonetheless. I think the recent statement from Crist is an example. And I think you will see this play out in larger and larger scale as November approaches. To me, as the political observer I was when I first came to DU, it smacks of desperation.
In general, the constant trickle of threads bashing Whites and men (most commonly) here are, to varying degrees, usually hypocritically racist and sexist, imho. I think some here relish bashing Whites and men and Christians, etc. This doesn't apply to genuine discussion of race issues. But it does drown out those honest discussions.
I was a Dem when I came to DU, having voted Dem for decades, and wondering if anyone else saw the new president bush as the evil bastard I did. And they did. Here, at DU. I have called this place my online home ever since.
But much has made me hesitant to promise blind support to anyone at this point. The predictable cry of racism from Democrats in regard to anyone who criticizes Obama is one of those reasons. It obscures instances of real racism, and devalues the word toward being meaningless, as does the assumption on the part of a few that everything boils down to race. And it insults anyone with legitimate concerns and criticisms of a political leader. The intended chilling effect on free speech and political commentary alone is revolting.
Race is a tough issue from the outset. It isn't something to be used as a wedge or lure or distraction. People will call me racist for having written this I'm sure. I might be banned (I hope not, I look forward to being here for 2016 and beyond). I'm sure I'll be called a repub, troll, right winger, white winger (love that one), etc. for having written this. I won't answer. I will wonder, though, if we will ever have an election about issues and policy again.
Respectfully.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)this bullshit all the time too. And it is, considering the state of the country, incredibly ignorant and self centered.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)I haven't seen these claims of racism against simple critics of Obama. I have seen people demanding to see his birth certificate called racist. And in point of fact? The entirety of conservative politics since Nixon is based on racism.
And it's kind of hard to have an honest discussion about issues of race and gender when half the participants are obliviously clueless middle-class white people who resent being called privileged and men's rights activist cranks. (It's very telling that you see any discussions of things like white privilege and feminist issues as "bashing whites and men", by the way.)
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)In fact I said I wasn't talking about honest discussion. Why twist my words?
Yes, critics of Obama have been and are called racist, even Dems, even here.
It is unbelievable to me that you haven't seen it.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)"constant trickle of threads bashing whites/men". Show me where this "bashing" has been taking place. Because you know, I haven't seen it. I've seen a lot of thin-skinned people like you who think that any discussion or criticism is "bashing". See for instance basically any discussion on issues of white privilege or the inherent misogyny of much popular culture.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)"half the participants are obliviously clueless middle-class white people who resent being called privileged and men's rights activist cranks."
That's your fellow Democratic Underground members you're talking about.
Maybe you can find a more appropriate foe to pick a fight with.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)any feminist views they don't agree with who are the problem.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)The fact that you need to frame it that way speaks volumes.
You are not the holder of the one truth that is indisputable. People are going to disagree it doesnt mean they are shouting you down.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Other people have noticed.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Disagreeing with you on a discussion board is not trying to shout you down. In fact, accusing people of trying to shout you down sounds like an effort to shut down discussion. On a discussion board. If all you want is an amen choir, stay in the HOF.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Supersedeas
(20,630 posts)not the only "groups" that have irrational resentment, no?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
M0rpheus
(885 posts)
840high
(17,196 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Anything you say will be misinterpreted in the worst possible light and used against you. 
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
deutsey
(20,166 posts)Beyond their entertainment value when I want to see a good train wreck, these threads contain a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing...to paraphrase the Bard.
Throd
(7,208 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)not ever DUer is a Democrat (I've seen self-proclaimed anarchists, socialists, Greens, and also members getting caught as RW infiltrators), and that the Democratic Party is the only sane and viable alternative in our 2-party system right now, the threads on this site generally speaking don't sway how I vote. As long as prominent Republicans continue going on TV to hatemonger against the poor and against minorities (and as long as their policies reflect their disregard towards us), I will continue voting with the party I see that can best thwart their agenda.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I'm going to vote Democratic (sometimes holding my nose) no matter what happens on DU.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)may decide not to come back, but I don't know how they will vote. Seems to be a gratuitous air about these threads which I find quite unconstructive. But I appreciate your asking. Now, I will bank to the left and avoid the foul weather ahead.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)I'm voting Booker and D (we have a primary here) in the 7th.
I'm going there - if I was a young "think I'm liberal but not sure" person of color and came here looking to become more aware - After some of the nonsense I've seen I would throw my hands up and say to hell with you all.
If a 17 year old black male came here this past summer on a fly by - He would have turned on the radio station of WIIFM and said to himself - Self. I can't win. I might get shot and be found guilty of my own murder - but on the way to my death I'm going to go work on Wall Street because then I will never be guilty of anything.
And if he gets there - he might start voting for his financial interests. My nephew Karei was 19 this past summer.i think he saw The Wolf Of Wall Street and saw a couple of verdicts and snapped. He even said, "Antie A - brush them all off". Yeah - that was so not a Merry Christmas.
He has a right. Can't say I blame him. When your country tells you time and again you have no value - you start coming to my house and talking about how great it is that Princeton brings in Wall Street to recruit and eventually you are going to have a black owned boutique venture capital firm.
ChaoticSilly
(374 posts)I don't see any reason to bother voting at all anymore and DU has had a hand in that. I'm a poor white man in a blue city in a red state in the south. The only thing that is worth less than my opinion is my vote.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)It doesn't surprise me to hear that there have been "hot" topics surrounding race; it wouldn't be the first time.
Agnostic...that's an interesting way to put it. I'm a political lone wolf. While I am a registered Democrat, I don't vote for parties or for personalities. I'm strictly an issues voter. Anyone who wants my vote earns it with position and record on issues. My Senator gets an enthusiastic vote from me, for example. Not because he is a Democrat or I'm "voting Democrat," but because he's earned it from me.
It's true that I've sometimes been put off an enthusiastic vote by well-meaning Democrats who tried to bully me into line to vote for someone whose positions and record on issues didn't deserve it. To be honest, DU has, over the last 11-12 years, taught me that I don't respect many Democrats' campaign techniques, nor do I respect their position on voting and elections. None of that, up to this point, has anything to do with race. I sure hope it stays that way.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)message board posters may or may not 'like' or 'agree' with my opinions. The entire of humanity was built on ethnic cleansing, wars, genocide, slavery. Education and knowledge will set us all free. Not more social segregation.
avebury
(10,952 posts)voting decision.
I live in an uber red state that has managed to wipe blue totally off the map. As much as people try to claim that every vote counts, in reality voting for Democrats here really won't accomplish much (even considering that there are actually more registered Democrats then Republicans - go figure). I vote but I do so with no expectations except maybe helping out with one local race where my vote might actually count. We have a Democratic DA that has been given a lot of grief for a couple of his cases (he was right on target with both to the dismay of the gun nuts). I make sure to support him because the alternative is unthinkable.
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)
Orsino
(37,428 posts)The rest will almost certainly be voting Republucan.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I think a normal observer would notice the groups on here and realize some have an agenda to try and shut this place down. It is rather obvious after reading enough posts by certain people.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)I hope people without jobs and food will say "who the fuck is doing this to me?" and realize who it is...
I hope the people who are being kept from voting in a myriad of ways stop and ask them-self "who the fuck is doing this to me?"
I hope we stop the war on drug users and start helping addicts (a little off topic, my son is a heroin addict)...
Throd
(7,208 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)M0rpheus
(885 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)[URL=http://gifsoup.com/view/1345106/carlton-dancing-again.html][IMG]
[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://gifsoup.com]GIFSoup[/URL]
M0rpheus
(885 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)I cannot beat that! 
M0rpheus
(885 posts)Let us celebrate with MOOAR Carlton!
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)And I can't wait for 1strong to log on and see this subthread!
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)What's the basis for this question?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Suggesting talking about racism/white privilege (on DU and in general) was Democrats shooting themselves on the foot and might have the effect of discouraging (rural and poorer) white Democrats from voting ... As they feel betrayed by allies.
(I've been trying to find the thread; but on a smartphone, it's slow searching. )
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)from The Cave trying to shit-stir on DU.
Seriously, who thinks DUers debating race/privilege are having ANY impact on poor, rural voters -- of any color?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)From what I recall, the posters had relatively high post counts and a fairly regular "rec" following.
ETA: That's why I mentioned it, as I did not get the impression that the sentiment was an out - layer.
herding cats
(19,558 posts)Is either being overly dramatic or not a person who votes in the first place.
I've read a lot of silly arguments on the internet, and sometimes the silly arguments are on DU. I try to stay out of those arguments, even when I agree with the main point being made. Not because I don't care about the point, but just because hot button topics here cannot be discussed rationally. It's the internet after all. People tend to like to be sensational and act in ways which they wouldn't in their real day to day life when they're on the internet. I believe the vast majority of people know this and tend to just ignore the silly and senseless personality conflicts they see taking place. Let's face it, some people just like to argue, and they'll say things they know will provoke the other person to react just for the fun of it.
There are also people here who didn't understand the gravity of some of our current social problems in the US until they've had it pointed out to them. They don't appear to be the ones running around starting arguments, but rather are uninformed and usually receptive to new information. Which makes me think these discussion do have merit and do help the cause.
Back to your question, I think no observer is going to be swayed into voting or not voting by witnessing people showing their asses on the internet. Having said that, I do think some of the more informative discussions I've seen on the value of voting, and having your voice be heard, could influence a person to get off their rump and vote. I've encountered people before who used to believe their vote didn't count who are now regular voters thanks to others motivating them to go to the polls.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)If you're an African-American man stopped by NYPD and frisked, it's because you Rights have been violated, not because I'm a "privileged white male."
I believe this because of the "Civil Rights" movement of the 1960s, not the "Anti-White-Privileged Male" movement of the 1980s or 1990s or whenever.
Having said that, I will vote for any candidate whose name ends with "D"
redqueen
(115,103 posts)of white privilege is raised.
Are you familiar with the concept of micro aggressions?
KansDem
(28,498 posts)But I recognized civil rights violations long before the issue of "white privilege" was raised.
Do a Google search using "white privilege" and limit to "and site:edu" You'll discover that for the most part academic articles written about "white privilege" appeared during the 1990s and after. I am referring to "civil rights" issues addressed by MLK and MX during the 1960s.
During the late-1960s I read "Black Like Me," a book about a white author who first experienced "Southern hospitality" as a white man, then turned his skin black and discovered racism. I didn't think, "Wow! An example of 'white privilege!'", but rather a blatant example of a denial of Rights based on racism.
I don't blame academicians for writing articles on "white privilege." I spent many years in academia and know that to survive you have to publish, and publishing writings on new concepts is tantamount to securing promotions and tenure. But, I wonder how far MLK would have gotten if "I have a dream" was comprised with rants against "white privilege."
And I'll take a look at the concept of "micro aggressions" this weekend.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)1st, (and being in academia, you should appreciate this) while it is true the research and publishing of original works lead to promotions and status, it is what advances/evolves the science. That is why I bang my head when people use pre- 1960s definitions of Racism, as if the science has stood still.
2ndly, Spoke of white privilege (albeit under a different name) all through his involvement in the civil rights movement.
840high
(17,196 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)This is a big tent, if someone thinks I am racist, bigot, privileged or whatever based on the color of my skin that is their problem not mine. I vote for the candidate who holds the most values I find important.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts).... discussing anything on DU will not impact how "people" vote.
Number23
(24,544 posts)and intimidate the handful of black people that still post here that are the first ones to chime in with how they "ignore" the threads on racism/white privilege because it's a "mine field" or have all sorts of wacky theories for why people of color, women and other marginalized groups are "annoying" them by using our power and making our voices heard.
I mean, you can't pay for this type of entertainment. It would be funny if it wasn't so fucking predictable and tiring. All I see on this board is posts from white people saying how they can't wait until the Real Racists (ie Bundys, Cruz's, Stirlings etc.) to die off. But how long is that going to take? And the beauty of that type of argument is that again, it allows white people to determine who and what is and is not racist and discount the opinions and experience of the people who are ACTUALLY AFFECTED by racism.
Black people know that the Real Racists consists of a hell of a lot more than the Cliven Bundys of the world. What about the rest of them? Are poc just supposed to sit down, shut up and wait to be told by our benevolent betters when it's safe/convenient/easy for us to speak about our experiences?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Don't mind me. it was just so good.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I'm leaving all of this to you guys. I don't have the patience and to be honest, this place isn't worth the trouble.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We shoulda talked about the Nsa.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)"We shoulda talked about the Nsa."
[IMG]
[/IMG]
sheshe2
(83,723 posts)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024805722
Yes they find us annoying and they say that they "ignore" this kind of thread. Yet they don't. They come in and drop turds. I read the threads, they come in and explain to us what we really mean, what we really feel and what we have experienced. They try to edit and rewrite our comments time and time again. Are they a person of color? No. Are they a woman that has been abused? No. Yet they tell us what we should feel.
As a white woman, I have privilege. As a woman, I have lost most of that. As an abused woman, no one has a right to tell me what I should or should not feel.
You Number23, and other PoC are not going to wait and be told when you can speak out and neither will I.
Number23
(24,544 posts) Beautiful Beautiful creatures~
Ta Da!~Yes we are.
Thanks Number 23
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)"All I see on this board is posts from white people saying how they can't wait until the Real Racists (ie Bundys, Cruz's, Stirlings etc.) to die off. But how long is that going to take?"
...another fallacy that I can think of with that type of mindset (the one about one day the last of the racists dying off) is that there has ALWAYS been (and always will be) some form of racism and bigotry throughout the history of mankind, just because of how different we all are. It is the 21st century, but obviously many people in this world are afraid of those who they see as different from them.
There will always be people who throw hissy fits over what others look like or what their background is.
Number23
(24,544 posts)not quite as racist but still racist brethren keep quietly fucking everyone with melanin over while they scream "look!! Cliven Bundy!" whenever anyone tries to put the spotlight on their own shortcomings.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)sheshe2
(83,723 posts)We will not sit down...We will not shut up!
Women, oh yes we are.
We are proud and strong and fearless.
We have been humiliated and hurt, sometimes grievously. We have been beaten both physically and verbally. Our rights over our bodies are being taken away from us. We have been told our voice does not matter, that our voice is shrill and hurts some sensitive ears. Aaaah, such sensitive ears, so sorry that the truth hurts.
Yet in the end, we rise. We will not be beaten. We are gaining strength and our fathers our brothers our sons and our friends have our backs. The color of ones skin does not matter here, it is for every woman that we stand for. We have each others backs.
What matters is that we all stand together, we all rise together. If one group is denied equality then every single one of us will lose our integrity and our humanity.
Let's Break that Chain! All of us it is time to stand up and be heard. We have your back and you have ours!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024805722
Thank you 1SBM. This is for all of us, our brothers and our sisters and together we have a strong voice. We can speak and we will be heard.
I will be damned before I shut up!
Autumn
(45,042 posts)I have voted in every election in my life for Democrats. Anyone posting their disappointment with Democrats or race/privilege sure as hell isn't going to get me to stay home and not vote. I am not an ignorant fool.
