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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHolder: Big banks may face criminal cases soon... says, no such thing as 'too big to jail.'
tweeted by, Occupy Wall Street ?@OccupyWallStNYC 6m
BREAKING: Attorney General Eric Holder says big banks may face criminal cases soon http://reut.rs/1g2Q8Ly ht @usuncut pic.twitter.com/B1vcUjmOZ6
May 5 (Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department is pursuing criminal investigations of financial institutions that could result in action in the coming weeks and months, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a video, adding that no company was "too big to jail."
The comments, made in a video posted on the Justice Department's website on Monday, came as federal prosecutors push two banks, BNP Paribas SA and Credit Suisse AG , to plead guilty to criminal charges to resolve investigations into sanctions and tax violations, respectively, according to people familiar with the probes.
"I intend to reaffirm the principle that no individual or entity that does harm to our economy is ever above the law," Holder said in the video. "There is no such thing as 'too big to jail.'"
read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/usa-banks-holder-idUSL2N0NR0NA20140505
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BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Sounds like more empty rhetoric to me.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Are the dismissive responses by people who haven't been paying attention to Holder's actual record.
Like The President, Holder follows through. What is it about these two that makes you see the opposite of reality?
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Said these financial entities were too large t effectively prosecute before backtracking after the public reaction. Furthermore, prosecution for financial crimes is at a 20 year low.
tridim
(45,358 posts)And do you have a link to the "public reaction" that he is apparently "backtracking" from?
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Regarding "these two" as I am just talking about Holder.
And the statements he made are common knowledge: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-06/too-big-to-fail-banks-limit-prosecutor-options-holder-testifies.html
Not sure how you want me to cite the reaction to that at the time, but this new opinion is very clearly a backtrack.
tridim
(45,358 posts)And you provided old news.
It's okay if you don't want to answer, most Holder/Obama bashers don't.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)You are not making any sense, I am sorry.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)If Obama ate a baby on live television, he would be here on DU talking about what good taste Obama has in meals.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)I don't know why he is lumping Obama and Holden together though, I never mentioned Obama. I really hope he isn't insinuating a racist motivation on my part or something.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)but that particular poster will allow no one to criticize Obama or anyone in the administration. I won't pretend to know why, but posting history shows blistering criticism of anyone that dares to find fault with even the most egregious thing done by the DoJ, Obama and anyone connected with it.
QC
(26,371 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)It wanted nothing more than to live in a world where Obama lived, and die in a world where Obama lived!
LeftOfWest
(482 posts)remember that.
Cha
(296,875 posts)are always ready with their knee jerk whine.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,758 posts)I'll be happy if he takes action but it's been a long time coming.
FuzzyRabbit
(1,967 posts)Historically, this justice department does not prosecute individual bankers who broke the law, but merely fines the banks. The fines are tiny compared to the profits the banks made by breaking the law.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)
lsewpershad
(2,620 posts)because they are foreign entities??????
1000words
(7,051 posts)The only fools you'll send to prison will be low-hanging fruit, who derp'd the CYA.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)
Whisp
(24,096 posts)and do tappy dancing, and dodging and ricocheting but never admitting they may have been wrong about Holder. 
DJ13
(23,671 posts)...... now that the Statute of Limitations is up.
It might have meant something if he hadnt been such a coward and said this 3-4 years ago.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Suddenly his reversal of opinion makes perfect sense.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)10 years (i.e., Bank/Wire Fraud, Conspiracy to Commit ...)
bigtree
(85,977 posts)Original charges were dismissed. 18 USC 3288 and 3289. Federal prosecutors can reinstate charges for an additional 6 months after the statute of limitations has run.
The offense took place in a foreign country, or evidence is located in foreign territory. 18 USC 3292.
The statue of limitations for major fraud against the US is 7 years from the date of the offense.
Conspiracy crimes have an exception to the 5-year statute of limitation. In conspiracies prosecuted under 18 USC 371, such as conspiracies to commit a federal offense or conspiracies to defraud the United States, the statute of limitations begins to run on the date of the last action taken to further or enable the conspiracy. The same rule applies to conspiracies to defraud the federal government by making a false claim under 18 USC 286, and drug trafficking conspiracies prosecuted under 21 USC 846
Banks and other financial institutions have special protection under federal criminal laws. The following offenses against banks have a 10-year statute of limitations:
Bank fraud (scheme or artifice to defraud a financial institution). 18 USC 1344.
Mail fraud (using the mails for a scheme or artifice to defraud). 18 USC 1341.
Wire fraud (using wire, radio, or television in a scheme or artifice to defraud). 18 USC 1343.
Violation of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), 18 USC 1962, that is predicated on bank fraud under 18 USC 1344.
Receipt of commissions or gifts for procuring loans. 18 USC 215.
Theft, embezzlement, or misapplication by bank officer or employee. 18 USC 656.
Embezzling funds from a federal financial institution. 18 USC 657.
Falsifying bank records (reports, entries or transactions). 18 USC 1005.
Falsifying records of a federal financial institution (reports, entries or transactions). 18 USC 1006.
Falsifying, forging, or counterfeiting a statement to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). 18 USC 1007.
Making a false statement or report, or overvaluing assets for a federal loan. 18 USC 1014.
Making a false statement or report, or overvaluing assets as it relates to insurance and a financial institution. 18 USC 1033.
http://www.federalcriminallawyer.us/2010/12/05/the-statute-of-limitations-defense-for-federal-crimes/
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)The crimes took place around 2007 I believe, so they are running out right about now. I guess in cases of conspiracy there may be another year or two left before time runs out on that too, assuming they stopped around 2008-2009
bigtree
(85,977 posts). . . they are exploring whether they can build criminal cases against bankers by using a 1984 law intended to punish individuals for scamming commercial banks.
The strategy involves a shift away from the more widely used securities fraud charge to a less common offense: bank fraud. The advantage is that perpetrators of bank fraud can be charged up to 10 years after their crimes, compared with the five-year statute of limitations on securities fraud, which has already run out on most events leading up to the 2008 financial crisis. A bank fraud conviction carries up to $1 million in fines and a maximum prison sentence of 30 years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/17/us-financialcrisis-fraud-probes-idUSBRE96G13620130717
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Hopefully this is followed up on, then.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)They will be let off on some petty violation of law.
We'll see it in all of it's extravagant glory, show trial, and then "cannot prosecute because..."
sheshe2
(83,660 posts)Thanks bigtree.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It was posted the last FEW times that the SoL canard was reached. People should pay special attention to the sections (charges) highlighted below, as even a pedestrian following of the banking thing is clear:
Mail fraud (using the mails for a scheme or artifice to defraud). 18 USC 1341.
Wire fraud (using wire, radio, or television in a scheme or artifice to defraud). 18 USC 1343.
Violation of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), 18 USC 1962, that is predicated on bank fraud under 18 USC 1344.
Receipt of commissions or gifts for procuring loans. 18 USC 215.
Theft, embezzlement, or misapplication by bank officer or employee. 18 USC 656.
Embezzling funds from a federal financial institution. 18 USC 657.
Falsifying bank records (reports, entries or transactions). 18 USC 1005.
Falsifying records of a federal financial institution (reports, entries or transactions). 18 USC 1006.
Falsifying, forging, or counterfeiting a statement to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). 18 USC 1007.
Making a false statement or report, or overvaluing assets for a federal loan. 18 USC 1014.
Making a false statement or report, or overvaluing assets as it relates to insurance and a financial institution. 18 USC 1033.
sheshe2
(83,660 posts)You don't snap your fingers and yell make it so. You study all the possibilities all angles, you know your facts before you pursue these banks. We all know that they have an army of highly paid lawyers doing the same damn thing and probably have for years. The banks aren't stupid, they have known this was coming.
Holder and Obama know all about the long game and it has paid off time and time again. The fly by the seat of your pants brigade believes that you just wave a magic wand. However a good lawyer goes in prepared with facts, prepared to win!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But all the internet legal eagles can make it happen at the tapping of their fingers ... in their minds.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)He's got wide shoulders now. Last year and the years before that, he "couldn't ascertain what broke the law" or some shit like that. Now he's strong, since he doesn't have to prosecute a damn thing.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Have you ever been even remotely involved in any type of investigation or prosecutorial process what so ever?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)How much experience do you have in the real world where people work their asses off to feed their families, take care of their elders and make sure that their children are given a proper education?
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)I have more experience than you could ever imagine not that it was relevant to this particular thread.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)& the possible prosecution of banks. You have spouted off nonsense repeatedly throughout this thread even when provided with irrefutable evidence proving otherwise & without anything to back it up. Yet, when I asked you if you had any legal expertise or experience you had nothing but a childish comeback about my personal civic duties which you know nothing about.
I'm simply trying to figure out if there is a contextual argument to your responses or if the purpose is solely to bash AG Holder.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)You are concerned about people criticizing AG Holder, even if criticism is warranted.
I got that, and I didn't need to read a treatise on what you think I said to arrive at that conclusion.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)It took 2 years of secrecy to get Bin Laden - and I expect there have been busy bees working on the wallscum/bankscum as well. Holder gets a raw deal here - he is doing a damn fine job considering all the cowards he has criticizing him constantly.
Only common sense for this to be done nearing the end of Obama's term, contrary to the demands of the I WANT IT NOWWWWWWWWWW! crowd.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)became AG. I don't believe a word of it and it is posturing trying to help the Dem's in a horrible mid-term election.
----
Y'all can scoff all you want at us who just don't believe anything will be done. Oh, there might be a dog and pony show but in the end Holder will end up with some cushy Wall St job making millions per year. That's how he got his job in the first place. I cannot remember the details, but someone on the board sent the story about him covering for some Wall Street 1%'er and was pushed up the ranks in the US Attorney's office.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)They MAY face criminal charges...
Whisp
(24,096 posts)When the time comes.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Greater than five years under the bridge. This administration let a lot of criminals walk, by design.
I do hope we see *something,* if only because of the country's backlash to Holder's appalling admission that that banks would not be held accountable and because of a need for PR during an election year.
However, I can't really be wrong at this point. Not anymore.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Last edited Mon May 5, 2014, 08:52 PM - Edit history (1)
You know very well what I have said all along:
that the threats of SS cuts will be used for as long as corporate politicians find them useful as a "greater evil" in order to push through other assaults and, bizarrely, to take credit for "saving" SS...an absurd bit of propaganda twisting, since it was Obama who wielded the threat in the first place.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2020314
This is not *only* about Social Security and Medicare. In fact, I would not be surprised if SS and Medicare were ostentatiously "saved" at the last minute one more time as propaganda to make the people cheer and be grateful and feel represented when the blow is withheld, rather than demanding to know why predatory policies are still being enacted in every other area of our lives, and why nobody is helping us.
There are other other examples, too. It just takes a google.
Only the propaganda of the Third Way could possibly try to advertise as representation of the people the president's withholding of an assault HE himself chose to threaten them with. But there is no way this country would have as quietly accepted the vicious austerity that *was* imposed had he and other slick corporatists not pre-arranged the situation so that they could terrify seniors to their shoes and then make them breathe that, "At least he didn't cut Social Security." It was a cruel and cynical tactic, but that is how the Third Way rolls.
And true to my prediction, the cuts are *still* on the table...merely moved to the side temporarily because it is an election year. But you knew that, too, because you have been caught before trying to claim it's all over ...and have been shamed by the White House's own statements contradicting you:The disinformation campaign grows old, Whisp.
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4713737
Your impressive fail on SS aside, it's certainly illustrative that you felt compelled to *try* to change the subject from the administration's protected bankers to SS, because you could not refute the cold, hard truth about the delays, the statutes of limitations, and Holder's own shameful admission.
Now, you go ahead and try another tactic without me. Youve already made me break my rule about responding to Third Way arguments that've been debunked a thousand times, so I will bow out now and let you spin this any way you like. I think the pattern here is already sufficiently clear.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is all but an admission that they WON'T.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Does anyone trust Holder to go after the bankers?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to hold the door open for a little old lady without slamming it in her face and telling her how important he is, much less prosecuting an actual criminal.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Glad it is.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)it was the Court that cut 10 years off of Skilling's sentence.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100835443
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)The deal just needed approval by a federal judge.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the portion of the conviction that covered that excess sentence based on a SCOTUS ruling.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Cha
(296,875 posts)than can be said for anonymous posters on the internet whose claim to fame is epic whining.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)
PADemD
(4,482 posts)What about American banks?
That kind of observation makes people nervous around here.
Cha
(296,875 posts)
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Hestia
(3,818 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)what the alternative is...
any criticism of Obama from the right is hypocritical and racist...maybe a true believer (idiot) xtian who is against abortion could oppose Obama, but they would have to oppose all pro mature adult life, not just him...
KG
(28,751 posts)he know which side his bread is buttered on...
