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Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:28 PM

How did legal observers and Obamacare backers get it so wrong? By Greg Sargent

snip

This now looks like a terrible misjudgment. During oral arguments this week, Scalia invoked the broccoli argument to question the govermentís case. He mocked the governmentís position with a reference to the ďcornhusker kickback,Ē even though thatís not in the law. As Fried notes, this language is straight out of the Tea Party guerrilla manual that was written during the battle to prevent Obamacare from becoming law in the first place.

All of which is to say that the law's proponents were badly caught off guard by the depth of the conservative blocís apparent hostility towards the law and its willingness to embrace the hard rightís arguments against its constitutionality. They didnít anticipate that this could shape up as an ideological death struggle over the heart and soul of the Obama presidency, which, as E.J. Dionne notes today, is exactly what it has become.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/how-did-obamacares-backers-get-it-so-wrong/2012/03/29/gIQArH5wiS_blog.html

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply How did legal observers and Obamacare backers get it so wrong? By Greg Sargent (Original post)
Swede Mar 2012 OP
nashville_brook Mar 2012 #1
calimary Mar 2012 #4
gratuitous Mar 2012 #13
calimary Mar 2012 #14
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #2
barbtries Mar 2012 #7
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #8
barbtries Mar 2012 #9
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #10
barbtries Mar 2012 #11
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #12
DJ13 Mar 2012 #3
calimary Mar 2012 #5
barbtries Mar 2012 #6

Response to Swede (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:31 PM

1. no excuse for being caught "off gaurd"- the teabaggers have been threatening

violence since the summer the public option was laid to rest.

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Response to nashville_brook (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:06 PM

4. Absolutely. "Caught off-guard." Dear God!

What utter bullshit. These stupid naive know-nothings were born yesterday? They truly don't understand who and what they're up against? They're THAT gullible??!?!?!?!?!? They haven't seen enough evidence and enough proof?

I keep hearing, from Democrats, various versions of "the American people will understand!" WRONG! "They'll know!" WRONG! "They'll see the benefits and they'll get it." WRONG! "They'll see the benefits and they'll understand!" WRONG! "They'll see how health care reform has helped them, and ... " WRONG! "Those benefits will speak for themselves." WRONG! And my newest favorite: "The American people aren't stupid." WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!

When they're being force-fed a constant stream of negativity and criticism and distortions and lies, it wouldn't matter if Obama and all the Dems arrived at their front door with checks made out to pay for ANY of their most drastic healthcare needs for the rest of their lives! They'd STILL believe the propaganda instead of their own lying eyes. They've been trained by now, over some 30 years of carefuly crafted and shrewdly delivered CONservative propaganda to vote against their own interests because, well, that trickle-down stuff will SURELY trickle down to them someday if they just keep believing. God will provide. The GOP way will make them all rich. And there won't be any more of those annoying blacks and brown-skins or uppity women getting in their way. It'll be magic! A nice, white America like a lot of them grew up believing in while they watched "Ozzie and Harriet" and believed that was how it was or should be, and how it must always continue to be. When "the little woman" stayed in the kitchen and only left the house to go grocery shopping or to the PTA, and African-Americans were - well - out of sight and out of mind unless they were shoeshine men with their sidewalk shoeshine stands, or washing your car at the car wash where you didn't have to tip them if you didn't feel like it. And Hispanics were like Bill Dana and that old "dumb Mexican" "Jose Jimenez" comedy routine of his - that is, when they weren't waiting tables and you didn't have to tip them much anyway - they should be grateful to have those jobs. Better when they were in the back washing dishes so they, too, were out of sight and out of mind and because of that you didn't have to tip them either - OR feel guilty about not doing so.

That's the America they want "back." They want to go "back." Back in time. When they really didn't have to believe that all men were created equal - and note the slogan says "all men," and no women need apply. Especially when everyone knows they just shouldn't be bothering their pretty little heads about such things anyway. And gays? Hey, nobody around HERE is gay! It's Communism!!!!

That America is long dead, thank goodness. But it won't stop these bastards from wanting to resurrect it again. And trying their damnedest to make sure it happens.

And with ALL of that, for all these years setting up VERY painfully obvious templates based on a long track record of consistently bad behavior, these dumb-asses on our side keep getting "caught off-guard." UNBELIEVABLE.

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Response to calimary (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:57 PM

13. I'd respond to this thread

But this post pretty much said it all. How gullible are the functionaries of this administration? And if they're not, how gullible do they think we are? "Wellllllll, how are ya gunna get Joe Lieberman's vote, huh?" You get Lieberman's vote (or Snowe's or Collins' or anyone's) by making it more expensive for them to oppose you than to go along with you. But that means getting out in front of an issue, taking nothing for granted, and repeating the same message about a brazillion times. Yeah, the policy wonks might know all about an issue, but as said above, the American people don't understand, don't get it, and don't recognize their own interests when they're told the exact opposite 24-7 by an organized opposition of rhetorical bomb-throwers who don't have anything to offer, only something to tear down.

Fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck, and fuck.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:08 PM

14. Man! You hit it outta the ballpark again, gratuitous.

As usual.

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Response to Swede (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:34 PM

2. How many people here or elsewhere believed that it would be a "slam dunk"

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:38 PM

7. i'll admit this

to my own shame: i thought there was a chance.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:53 PM

8. Don't lose heart

I still feel pretty confident they won't dump it- at least not the entire law. If a George W. Bush appointee (in a lower court) can vote to uphold the law, anything is possible. Not sure if Roberts wants to have dumping the entire law as part of his "legacy".

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:04 PM

9. thanks

i was listening to NPR this afternoon about it. not encouraging, not at all. i'll try to buck up.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:14 PM

10. NPR is a decent news source

but it is so "balanced" that sometimes it sets your head spinning and you don't really know what to think/believe afterwards

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:19 PM

11. not when it comes to politics any more...

i guess it was, once upon a time. i have to slam in a CD so often these days because of the way they play up the right.

i'll give you a recent example. there was a republican primary or a caucus in Illinois recently. how did they announce Romney's win? "The voters of Illinois have spoken..."
bullshit. the REPUBLICANS, those who bothered to vote, spoke. that is a far cry from all of the voters in Illinois. but you would think if you didn't know better that the entire populace of the state wants Romney for president.

anyhow. shit like that all the time.

on the other hand, they have a lot of really great programming, and i listen to it whenever i am in my car, and fairly often i catch up with programs that are streamed on the computer.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:36 PM

12. I agree with you about their coverage of politics

I usually listen to daytime shows like Diane Rehm and Fresh Air, which are really good. Coverage of everything else seems to range from good to bad.

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Response to Swede (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:35 PM

3. The law's backers thought that enacting a Heritage Foundation plan immunized it from criticism

..... at least from the right (the left didnt matter I guess).

How wrong they were.

This just proves that they might as well appease the left so at least one side ends up happy.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:07 PM

5. And they still don't understand anything about messaging.

Or how to win the PR wars. After all this time. After all these hard-learned lessons. Sorry - I misspoke. The folks on our side CLEARLY haven't "learned" anything. And most distressing of all, most of the people on our side don't think it's even a priority!!!!

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Response to Swede (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:36 PM

6. conservative judges

could really not care less about the people, the constitution, their sworn duty. they just don't and nothing anyone else says or does will make them. the only hope is Democrats for president for the foreseeable future.

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