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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 05:41 PM Dec 2011

FBI Says Activists Who Investigate Factory Farms Can Be Prosecuted as Terrorists

FBI Says Activists Who Investigate Factory Farms Can Be Prosecuted as Terrorists

The FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force has kept files on activists who expose animal welfare abuses on factory farms and recommended prosecuting them as terrorists, according to a new document uncovered through the Freedom of Information Act.

This new information comes as the Center for Constitutional Rights has filed a lawsuit challenging the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (AETA) as unconstitutional because its vague wording has had a chilling effect on political activism. This document adds to the evidence demonstrating that the AETA goes far beyond property destruction, as its supporters claim.

The 2003 FBI file details the work of several animal rights activists who used undercover investigation to document repeated animal welfare violations. The FBI special agent who authored the report said they “illegally entered buildings owned by [redacted] Farm… and videotaped conditions of animals.”

The animal activists caused “economic loss” to businesses, the FBI says. And they also openly rescued several animals from the abusive conditions. This was not done covertly in the style of underground groups like the Animal Liberation Front — it was an act of non-violent civil disobedience and, as the FBI agent notes, the activists distributed press releases and conducted media interviews taking responsibility for their actions.

...

http://younisd.tumblr.com/post/14526341752/fbi-says-activists-who-investigate-factory-farms-can-be



With every passing day, I wonder how & when we'll ever get out of this mess.

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FBI Says Activists Who Investigate Factory Farms Can Be Prosecuted as Terrorists (Original Post) Catherina Dec 2011 OP
Now, THIS saddens me. This is not good! secondwind Dec 2011 #1
This is getting more and more like a repressive police state IMO. As many Americans snooze. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2011 #2
Getting? It *is* a police state and there's nothing we can do about it. MotherPetrie Dec 2011 #4
femrap Dec 2011 #62
Femrap, I feel that way every day. dotymed Dec 2011 #109
Bullshit there is nothing we can do! Nostradammit Dec 2011 #87
I agree. Eddie Haskell Dec 2011 #125
Seems any damage to a corporation can be construded as terror. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #3
That's because they write the laws that congress passes and the president signs MotherPetrie Dec 2011 #5
And everyone is bought by big money, so they do their bidding. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2011 #7
Yep..i agree.. INdemo Dec 2011 #103
I just watched Casino Jack (the Jack Abramoff story). Eddie Haskell Dec 2011 #126
The word "terrorism" has been mis/overused. Dawson Leery Dec 2011 #6
At what point do we declare the country a lost cause and just move out? Speck Tater Dec 2011 #8
The border fence is not completed yet so there's still time. nt NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #28
I'm Canadian and I live in a state that allows me to marry anyone 17 and older... OswegoAtheist Dec 2011 #41
Will keep your contact info if needed.... Pachamama Dec 2011 #47
Can your property grow wheat? aquart Dec 2011 #81
Yes, it can. n/t Pachamama Dec 2011 #112
Male or female? Eddie Haskell Dec 2011 #127
Leave any time you like. aquart Dec 2011 #80
Right now to very many people. dotymed Dec 2011 #111
I've already started the process to go to New Zealand kylie772 Dec 2011 #133
The thread is bad news, but I'm glad to see you! Starry Messenger Dec 2011 #9
I really like DU3's jury system & improved transparency Catherina Dec 2011 #21
Thanks for posting this, it's quite interesting and quite telling about the state of affairs in RKP5637 Dec 2011 #22
All we have to do is turn off Internet & turn on FOX & all of this anguish will disappear Catherina Dec 2011 #38
The corporations are in control now...not "We The People" CoffeeCat Dec 2011 #10
well, now that corporations are people, I guess that they're just really BIG people Burgman Dec 2011 #14
Well that's bullshit. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #11
I like your quote. fasttense Dec 2011 #93
What a depressing post, sometimes I am afraid Autumn Dec 2011 #12
The way it's going eventually just posting on DU will be considered an act of terrorism. RKP5637 Dec 2011 #24
I've been an "Enemy Of The State" for just about my whole life, one way or another. hobbit709 Dec 2011 #97
Fucking amazing...fromt eh FBI, the org that missed 9-11...knr joeybee12 Dec 2011 #13
To consider Law "enforcement" as a career would be the equivalent Dawson Leery Dec 2011 #17
Only if your specialty was being a dom that gave your subs STDs saras Dec 2011 #42
And that took years to find the anthrax killer -- if it found him or her or it. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #96
Gee. Just the other day I learned on DU that the government would never do that. Octafish Dec 2011 #15
+ a googolplex hifiguy Dec 2011 #18
I remember that. Trust the governement, they only write these laws for sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #143
Excuse me? hifiguy Dec 2011 #16
Good thing we all voted for that 'Hope and change' right? truebrit71 Dec 2011 #19
The prison lobby will be contributing heavily, imagine all of the $$$ they will get RKP5637 Dec 2011 #26
CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE == TERRORISM yodermon Dec 2011 #20
That's the problem with starting ill-defined, never ending wars, whether Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #23
Now it's gone to full fledged war against "We the People." Submit or be imprisoned. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2011 #29
As "Terrorists" are they now eligible to be detained indefinately NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #25
Yes they are!! thank GAWD it is not mandatory but just at the kings pleasure as Dragonfli Dec 2011 #45
Laws are a pretense. fasttense Dec 2011 #94
FYI, folks, AETA passed in 2006. yewberry Dec 2011 #27
No, this is the FBI Autumn Dec 2011 #30
The FBI has had this ability for the past 5 years, since AETA was passed. yewberry Dec 2011 #32
Correct, it was a culmation from the "Green Scare." It went unnoticed on DU. joshcryer Dec 2011 #85
I don't see Obama anywhere in the OP. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #116
No, not in the OP. yewberry Dec 2011 #141
The original legislation dates back to 1992 Major Nikon Dec 2011 #135
Unfortunately we do live in a police state...... Swede Atlanta Dec 2011 #31
Not quite. The Nazi kangaroo courts executed people shortly after the trial. stevenleser Dec 2011 #131
Well, assassinating US citizens by drone, without charges, doesn't sound all that different sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #145
Wartime conditions are different than a kangaroo court. stevenleser Dec 2011 #152
I am against these wars in the ME and N. Africa. Aren't you? I mean it was clear sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #154
we killed a number of US citizens with bombing in WW2 stevenleser Dec 2011 #155
First, there is no comparison to anything that went on in WW11 and Bush's sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #156
FBI to announce that all Americans are suspected terrorists. Deep13 Dec 2011 #33
Sad but true. nt Critters2 Dec 2011 #82
Just take a ride on an airplane. We are all suspects. gtar100 Dec 2011 #150
Ahh, well that's just dandy. a la izquierda Dec 2011 #34
Center for Constitutional Rights is fighting back meow2u3 Dec 2011 #35
"Thank God someone is sticking up for our Constitutional rights." fascisthunter Dec 2011 #44
Thanks, meow2u3 for helping me breathe again. freshwest Dec 2011 #123
Yes, they are all that is between the people and their government which is apparently sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #147
That's the problem with using amorphous words like malaise Dec 2011 #36
Hi Malaise Catherina Dec 2011 #39
Disgusting. K&R n/t myrna minx Dec 2011 #37
K&R for CCR Solly Mack Dec 2011 #40
We Knew the knew We'd start seeing this fascisthunter Dec 2011 #43
Then sent to never ending detention camps. sarcasmo Dec 2011 #46
The FBI declared animal rights activism their #1 anti-terror priority in 2005. LeftyMom Dec 2011 #48
I worked at the DU-hated PETA 2001-2004 justiceischeap Dec 2011 #98
Do you have proof for any of this? Major Nikon Dec 2011 #134
They never said it was their exclusive focus. LeftyMom Dec 2011 #138
The only thing I remember that comes close to that is the Faux story from a few years ago Major Nikon Dec 2011 #139
CNN work for you? LeftyMom Dec 2011 #140
The FBI declared animal rights activism their #1 anti-terror priority in 2005 Major Nikon Dec 2011 #142
You really don't need to explain this issue to me, thanks. LeftyMom Dec 2011 #144
I just asked for proof of your assertion Major Nikon Dec 2011 #149
well yes, you did need the explanation, because your assertion is wrong DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2011 #151
Why cant they just be charged under existing laws for trespassing? Answer: because the precident is Pachamama Dec 2011 #49
+ 1,000 suffragette Dec 2011 #51
Just connecting the dots for the bigger picture... Pachamama Dec 2011 #61
These are scary times suffragette Dec 2011 #66
Exactly. Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #57
I might just do that.... Pachamama Dec 2011 #59
I agree with Wind Dancer suffragette Dec 2011 #67
The can't be charged with trespassing because they actually get hired justiceischeap Dec 2011 #95
If you can get charged with trespassing for standing on a public sidewalk, then they can charge you hobbit709 Dec 2011 #99
Are all the activists/whistleblowers who expose these factory farms for what they are always Pachamama Dec 2011 #110
U.S. agencies and departments have become nothing but gangsters for industry. marmar Dec 2011 #50
mission creep? swelfdealing? creating your own market? elehhhhna Dec 2011 #52
How long till its considered an act of terror to protest wall street thievery or capitalism itself? workinclasszero Dec 2011 #53
what you mean "'til"? hobbit709 Dec 2011 #100
I must be on absolutely everyone's Ignore. flvegan Dec 2011 #54
It's not important if an AR person posts about it. yewberry Dec 2011 #55
Not that you'd know this Catherina Dec 2011 #60
No disrespect intended. yewberry Dec 2011 #69
I'm sorry about that Catherina Dec 2011 #73
Glad to hear it. yewberry Dec 2011 #77
I'm a die hard meat eater and Zalatix Dec 2011 #92
What did ignored say? LeftyMom Dec 2011 #56
Same old same old. yewberry Dec 2011 #70
This is why we can't have nice things. flvegan Dec 2011 #71
A guy goes to the doctor yewberry Dec 2011 #74
His love for that dude's a bit creepy. LeftyMom Dec 2011 #83
I know I recommended some Catherina Dec 2011 #58
Thanks. flvegan Dec 2011 #72
And there it is. annabanana Dec 2011 #63
indeed (nt) fascisthunter Dec 2011 #65
This is why We progressives oppose fascist shit like the NDAA. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #64
"Activism = terrorism." And terrorists have no civil rights. Handy. DirkGently Dec 2011 #68
Yes, it started years ago. redqueen Dec 2011 #78
Is any one reading this feeling chills over the Defense Appropriates Act? Jack Rabbit Dec 2011 #75
No kidding ... I spent a few days posting about the ACLU's concerns with this law - TBF Dec 2011 #102
K&R (n/t) a2liberal Dec 2011 #76
Hey Agent Mike! FUCK YOU! lonestarnot Dec 2011 #79
Where's all the defender's of this law? limpyhobbler Dec 2011 #84
Why would DUers support a law Bush passed? joshcryer Dec 2011 #86
Why wasn't it repealed them? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #88
A moderate post-partisan repeal it? joshcryer Dec 2011 #89
Never stop asking those "inconvenient questions" Nadine... Pachamama Dec 2011 #124
There's nothing like good old American Fascism. Peter1x9 Dec 2011 #90
Some people act like the president controls the police-military-business community. Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #91
The ACLU warned on NDAA - unfortunately most have hopped on the fascist bandwagon. nt TBF Dec 2011 #101
Jesus, what a bunch of shit this is. ellie Dec 2011 #104
FBI = Federal Bureau of Intimidation Yon_Yonson Dec 2011 #105
And there you have the reason for NDAA KansDem Dec 2011 #106
Hi Catherina :) Marrah_G Dec 2011 #107
I agree with you Catherina Dec 2011 #121
It's really good to "see" you as well :) Marrah_G Dec 2011 #122
As I've said before ... "national security" is code for corporate profits TownDrunk2 Dec 2011 #108
Coming soon to your neighborhood, Mom and Pop terrorist shops. Thor_MN Dec 2011 #113
Animal activists caused economic harm? abelenkpe Dec 2011 #114
...America is going to hell. SoapBox Dec 2011 #115
indeed Baclava Dec 2011 #120
These two photos. There's your terrorism. lib_wit_it Dec 2011 #132
The ACLU didn't oppose the bill........suggest some word changes. Historic NY Dec 2011 #117
Looks like Fl has the Ag Gag back up also Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #118
I Called this back in during the Bush/Cheney regime krucial Dec 2011 #119
As one Prosecutor said "I can get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich" Conviction is another yellowcanine Dec 2011 #128
Tell the SHAC 7 that. flvegan Dec 2011 #148
Investigations and charges waste activists time and money. LeftyMom Dec 2011 #153
why can't factory farming be illegal instead? alp227 Dec 2011 #129
In other news... Javaman Dec 2011 #130
K&R (nt) T S Justly Dec 2011 #136
And when this DHS report...“Rightwing Extremism:...." for police & other groups was leaked, tpsbmam Dec 2011 #137
Nothing is more important to conservatives than money. gtar100 Dec 2011 #146
 

MotherPetrie

(3,145 posts)
4. Getting? It *is* a police state and there's nothing we can do about it.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 05:49 PM
Dec 2011

Absolutely nothing. The system is just too rigged against us.

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
109. Femrap, I feel that way every day.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:39 AM
Dec 2011

It is messed up to feel that way in "the land of the free." I feel like everything we communicate is stored for future evidence.

GO OWS!

Nostradammit

(2,921 posts)
87. Bullshit there is nothing we can do!
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 04:05 AM
Dec 2011

I mean - I beg your pardon, I disagree with your view that our situation is permanent and hopeless.

We're just getting this party started.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
103. Yep..i agree..
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 09:45 AM
Dec 2011

It seems that newly elected {Presidents/Congressmaen} get an orientation about how things will be, along with a set of corporate mafia rules they must abide by...They walk into the meeting room with their own ideas and walk out with a totally different game plan..
Maybe that explains why we went from change we can believe in to corpoate control is best.

Eddie Haskell

(1,628 posts)
126. I just watched Casino Jack (the Jack Abramoff story).
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 02:24 PM
Dec 2011

How a movie this tragic can be funny is beyond me, but that didn't keep me from laughing. Our government is a sick, twisted, and when compared to our founding father's vision, FUBAR.

 

Speck Tater

(10,618 posts)
8. At what point do we declare the country a lost cause and just move out?
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 05:55 PM
Dec 2011

I think back to all the people who could've left Nazi Germany while it was still possible, but they didn't for one reason or another... How long before the borders are closed to outgoing traffic?

OswegoAtheist

(609 posts)
41. I'm Canadian and I live in a state that allows me to marry anyone 17 and older...
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 08:22 PM
Dec 2011

...my current quote is 7500, but that'll go up during the election season, of course.

Oswego "Canadian Dollars, specifically" Atheist

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
111. Right now to very many people.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:43 AM
Dec 2011

If you owe any back child support,maybe even money to state or federal government, you can not get a visa. Then of course, the cost of visa's are out of reach for many.





edited for spelling

 

kylie772

(4 posts)
133. I've already started the process to go to New Zealand
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 03:52 PM
Dec 2011

They have flexible immigration policies and I meet their point system I have thought about this from time to time over the years but feel compelled to make this decision.

This means anyone who spray paints some pro animal message and releases a few animals can be held for years without charges.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
21. I really like DU3's jury system & improved transparency
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:25 PM
Dec 2011

It resolved a major issue I had so I plan to post here as much as time allows, which unfortunately won't be as much as I'd like.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
22. Thanks for posting this, it's quite interesting and quite telling about the state of affairs in
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:30 PM
Dec 2011

the US.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
38. All we have to do is turn off Internet & turn on FOX & all of this anguish will disappear
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 07:58 PM
Dec 2011

That's was actually a tweet from Egypt but it fits so well.

So all I have to do is turn off Internet & turn on state TV & all of this anguish will disappear - blue pill/red pill #Egypt

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
10. The corporations are in control now...not "We The People"
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:00 PM
Dec 2011

The corporations bribed our politicians and became bedfellows with them--long ago.

We are now seeing the horrible effects of this putrid corporatism.

Big Agriculture corporations first bribed our politicians to get regulations relaxed or abolished. Now the animals
survive in filthy, disgusting and cruel conditions, so the corporations can improve their profit margin.

That's all fine and dandy until the consumer wants to know what these corporations are doing to our food.

When we take pictures of corporate evil and abuse--we can now be prosecuted as terrorists. Lovely. Just
lovely.

When in the hell will we have ONE, JUST ONE, politician who will stand up to these horrendous abuses, call out
these corporations for what they are doing to our democracy--and say, "NO MORE!"???

THERE IS NO ONE FIGHTING FOR US. NO ONE!! NOT ONE POLITICIAN EVEN TALKS ABOUT THIS!!

 

Burgman

(330 posts)
14. well, now that corporations are people, I guess that they're just really BIG people
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:04 PM
Dec 2011

in the eyes of the elected. really big people with lots of dollars.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
11. Well that's bullshit.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:01 PM
Dec 2011

I'd gladly risk it if I had the stomach for it, which I don't. Instead I contribute to mercyforanimals.org

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
* Mohandas Gandhi

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
93. I like your quote.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 07:58 AM
Dec 2011

It reminds me of this one:

"A society is not judged on how well they keep their kings but on how they treat the weakest among them." Anonymous (which has a totally different meaning today)

But really how much weaker and defenseless can you get in this society than an animal.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
12. What a depressing post, sometimes I am afraid
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:03 PM
Dec 2011

we will never get out of this mess. It just keeps getting worse. I am so glad to see you back.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
24. The way it's going eventually just posting on DU will be considered an act of terrorism.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:33 PM
Dec 2011

This is all getting to remind me of the SS and the Gestapo in Germany during WWII.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
96. And that took years to find the anthrax killer -- if it found him or her or it.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 08:42 AM
Dec 2011

And we are supposed to think that an organization that can't find a killer lurking in an obvious place in a government agency can differentiate terrorists from peaceful dissidents.

Destroying property is a crime, but it is not terrorism.

If you steal someone's animals, even if they are mistreating them, you have stolen something. If you purposely destroy their property, that also is a crime, but it is not the same sort of crime as blowing up the World Trade Center -- not at all.

We don't need special laws about terrorism. We just need calm, fair enforcement of the laws we have -- including our First Amendment rights. Entities or individuals in the government who over-react or try to deprive us of our First Amendment rights should be sued and/or prosecuted.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
15. Gee. Just the other day I learned on DU that the government would never do that.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:06 PM
Dec 2011

Something to do with signing away Habeas Corpus or Due Process or NDAA or something?

We don't even know what Uncle Sam is doing with the USA PATRIOT Act. Remember Udall and Wyden?

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/despite-attempts-wyden-and-udall-secr

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
16. Excuse me?
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:06 PM
Dec 2011


Soon enough, all protest of any kind will be labeled as terrorism and the transition to fascism will be complete in all but name.
 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
19. Good thing we all voted for that 'Hope and change' right?
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:13 PM
Dec 2011


And yes, I know that Obama doesn't run the FBI....his appointee does...He sets the tone, and so far that tone has been 'deaf'...

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
26. The prison lobby will be contributing heavily, imagine all of the $$$ they will get
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:37 PM
Dec 2011

imprisoning more and more Americans. As another poster said, I too am starting to wonder when the borders will be sealed. I'm sure OWS will be eventually labeled as terrorists, against the state.

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
23. That's the problem with starting ill-defined, never ending wars, whether
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:31 PM
Dec 2011

it be the "War on Drugs" or "War against Terrorism" you can't wage war; against inanimate objects or emotions without it morphing into war against the American People as a whole.

Power corrupts and the corrupted ones in power will use those ambigious, eternal dynamics to enrich themselves and trash their legitimate political opposition.

Thanks for the thread, Catherina.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
25. As "Terrorists" are they now eligible to be detained indefinately
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:37 PM
Dec 2011

without trial under the NDAA guidelines?

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
45. Yes they are!! thank GAWD it is not mandatory but just at the kings pleasure as
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:37 PM
Dec 2011

laid out by the "new language".

We all know that the king would never side with a corporation against such "terrorists" so I guess all the animal rights activists are safe because all kings are surely always just and good.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
94. Laws are a pretense.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 08:17 AM
Dec 2011

Soon they will stop passing laws and drop the charade altogether. They will rule simply on their whim.

Just think of all the laws the federal government is actively ignoring now, buy America Act, Anti-trust laws, Anti-torture laws, Financial fraud laws, Election fraud laws, Not to mention several parts of the Constitution like this one: no warrants shall be issued, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized, and this one: nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

I heard a Libertarian, the other day, say that democracy was messy, and self-destructive. He thought it should be replaced. He didn't say what he would replace it with. I imagine the whim of some rich man would be more to his liking.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
27. FYI, folks, AETA passed in 2006.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:37 PM
Dec 2011

I don't love everything Obama has done, but this one wasn't on his watch.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
30. No, this is the FBI
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:40 PM
Dec 2011

But with the way they work they will do what they can to make terrorists of us all.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
32. The FBI has had this ability for the past 5 years, since AETA was passed.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:46 PM
Dec 2011

The story now is that someone is actually challenging it as unconstitutional.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
85. Correct, it was a culmation from the "Green Scare." It went unnoticed on DU.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 03:35 AM
Dec 2011

And few have complained much about it since.

I knew people in the "Green Scare."

And could've been one of them, easily.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
135. The original legislation dates back to 1992
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 03:58 PM
Dec 2011

The update in 2006 was bi-partisan and passed unopposed other than Kunich walking out on the debate.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
31. Unfortunately we do live in a police state......
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
Dec 2011

The U.N. criticized the Obama administration for failing to protect the human rights of OWS.

This is the first I had heard about this but yes, pretty soon, any action you take to even protest the crimes of businesses will be deemed terrorism and subject to indefinite, lifetime incarceration with no access to legal representation or promise of prosecution or freedom. This is exactly the way the Nazi regime worked.

I am glad I have been transferring my assets out of the country slowly over the past 5-7 years so that I can soon move out of this country and weep for those left behind. Reminds me of the Germans that left Germany while they could.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
131. Not quite. The Nazi kangaroo courts executed people shortly after the trial.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 03:15 PM
Dec 2011

I am not agreeing with your characterization, just pointing out that lifetime encarceration definitely does not capture the horror of the Nazi criminal justice system.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
145. Well, assassinating US citizens by drone, without charges, doesn't sound all that different
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 12:52 AM
Dec 2011

especially when it is now defended on the left. I agree and have said so, that indefinite detention is not nearly as bad as death by drone without charges. But with those choices, I am wondering if those getting ready to leave are the smart people.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
152. Wartime conditions are different than a kangaroo court.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:26 AM
Dec 2011

We sent planes to ambush and kill Admiral Yamamoto in the second world war. I've always thought the drone issue a red herring. If you are against war or against a particular war, be against it. Concentrating on a weapons platform as if that is the issue doesn't work for me (assuming of course were not talking about wmd)

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
154. I am against these wars in the ME and N. Africa. Aren't you? I mean it was clear
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:39 AM
Dec 2011

when Bush was president what they were all about. Now instead of ending them we are moving into other countries. The reason the drone is important, to them, is it makes it possible to wage wars without major invasions. Ask Pakistan and all the victims' relatives who have been killed there.

Admiral Yamamoto was not an American citizen. And Japan had declared on the US. How on earth does that compare to killing a teenaged US citizen and his friends?

These policies are wrong. The are NOT going to bring any kind of peace and safety to this or any other country. Look at the state of the world right now, after decades of Imperial invasions, the whole world is a mess. These policies are a failure, for millions and millions of people.

We are a country of only a few hundred thousand people. There are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. We are not that important. And we are more unpopular each day around the world. That leaves an opening for some other super power to step into as people grow sick and tired of our insane claims that we are the most important people on the planet and can kill anyone, anywhere to keep ourselves 'safe'. Even China is beginning to look good to people in other parts of the world who in the past feared it and looked to the US to contain it.

Nice going, PNACers, the world hates us now. And all these wars have done is weaken this country.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
155. we killed a number of US citizens with bombing in WW2
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:50 AM
Dec 2011

They were POWs in Germany and Japan and got caught in bombing raids. I am sure if a us citizen had defected and became an important enough member of the Nazi high command or the Imperial Japanese army or navy, they would have been targeted too.

Beyond that, if you decide to go overseas and spend time in war zones or with groups engaged in armed rebellions or terror, you stand a good chance of being killed by any number of groups or countries.

I agree with you in general about the wars there, but not about these specific actions.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
156. First, there is no comparison to anything that went on in WW11 and Bush's
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 03:00 PM
Dec 2011

phony war on terror.

Second, Awlaki was not in a war zone. He was never charged with a crime, and the US Government sought him out and killed him in another country, for what, they have still refused to say. Then they sought out his teenaged son and killed him along with whoever was with him, also.

If this does not scare people, it should. We have laws still in this country and despite the War on our Constitution, there are still avenues remaining where if someone is suspected of committing a crime, due process can be applied.

The fact that the government doesn't even pretend it is abiding by the law shows how successful the Bush attack on the US Constitution has been. Now being continued under this administration. Which many people warned would happen, UNLESS the Bush gang were held accountable. Now we see why they were not.

It appears it is not just the Republican party that wants to destroy our rights, and that is a shock to many of us who believed that at least one party would protect our Constitutional rights. A real shock, frankly and the reason why people have now taken to the streets. No one is protecting them, we are on our own.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
33. FBI to announce that all Americans are suspected terrorists.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:48 PM
Dec 2011

The real world or an Onion story? I can't tell the difference any more.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
150. Just take a ride on an airplane. We are all suspects.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:05 AM
Dec 2011

And you are watched with suspicion the whole way through.

meow2u3

(24,745 posts)
35. Center for Constitutional Rights is fighting back
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 07:21 PM
Dec 2011

to have the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act declared unconstitutional.

New Lawsuit Challenges the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act as Unconstitutional

A new lawsuit challenges the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act as unconstitutional because it has given activists reason to fear that they could be prosecuted as “terrorists” for non-violent civil disobedience, protests, and First Amendment activity.

The lawsuit was filed by the Center for Constitutional Rights on behalf of 5 longtime animal rights activists. The activists say the vague wording of the law, and the corporate-led campaigns against animal rights activism, have made them alter their own advocacy.

The landmark case has implications for all social justice movement, beyond the animal rights activists targeted. It sets a dangerous precedent for labeling anyone who effectively threatens corporate profits a “terrorist.” As the Occupy Wall Street Movement grows rapidly, and has begun reclaiming foreclosed homes from banks and shutting down ports, this lawsuit couldn’t come at a more pressing time. And with the impending passage of the National Defense Authorization Act, the dangers of this parallel legal system for “terrorists” has become strikingly clear.

The lawsuit seeks to strike down the law for violating the First and Fifth Amendments [read the criminal complaint in Blum v. Holder]. Specifically, it argues that the law is unconstitutional for 3 reasons:
(more)
http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/animal-enterprise-terrorism-act-lawsuit-ccr/5397/


Thank God someone is sticking up for our Constitutional rights.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
147. Yes, they are all that is between the people and their government which is apparently
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 12:54 AM
Dec 2011

of control and the reason why they and the Civil Liberties Union and the National Lawyers' Guild are the only people I will donate to from now on. No one else is working for the people.

malaise

(267,823 posts)
36. That's the problem with using amorphous words like
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 07:30 PM
Dec 2011

terrorism and terrorist.
Any opposition to the system is now terrorism.
Ah well. They will still be defeated. The 99% will win.

Nice to see you Catherina

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
48. The FBI declared animal rights activism their #1 anti-terror priority in 2005.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:56 PM
Dec 2011

It's worse than that: any action intended to cause economic harm to an animal using business is terrorism under the AETA. Some little old lady stands outside the shop that sells puppy mill puppies and hands out pamphlets on adopting pets from shelters instead? Terrorist. Hold up an anti-fur sign outside a fur shop? Terrorist.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
98. I worked at the DU-hated PETA 2001-2004
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 08:46 AM
Dec 2011

at the time the FBI was illegally investigating the organization and its employees. There's nothing like having your life gone over by the FBI because someone, at some time, paid defense fees for an ALF (Animal Liberation Front) member.

Just to be clear, PETA gives grants to people in need that are helping animals. A member of ALF needed bail money...PETA does not participate in illegal actions like ALF does but that doesn't mean that they won't help with legal fees if asked--hence, this is why all employees were investigated and spied upon for years (just wanted to be transparent about why PETA was initially investigated by the FBI).

http://abcnews.go.com/News/Blotter/fbi-spied-peta-greenpeace-anti-war-activists/story?id=11682844#.TvHTZCNSRy8

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
134. Do you have proof for any of this?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 03:56 PM
Dec 2011

IIRC, the FBI had a focus on domestic terrorism, but claiming their focus was exclusively on animal rights terrorists sounds a bit like hyperbole.

Also you may want to read the actual legislation as it specifically exempts what you claim it includes:

‘‘(e) RULES OF CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall
be construed—
‘‘(1) to prohibit any expressive conduct (including peaceful
picketing or other peaceful demonstration) protected from legal
prohibition by the First Amendment to the Constitution;
‘‘(2) to create new remedies for interference with activities
protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of the
First Amendment to the Constitution, regardless of the point
of view expressed, or to limit any existing legal remedies for
such interference; or
‘‘(3) to provide exclusive criminal penalties or civil remedies
with respect to the conduct prohibited by this action, or to
preempt State or local laws that may provide such penalties
or remedies.’’.

http://abolishtheaeta.org/web/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/the-animal-enterprise-terrorism-act.pdf

I have a hard time believing anyone who is prosecuted under this act is doing nothing more than handing out pamphlets.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
139. The only thing I remember that comes close to that is the Faux story from a few years ago
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:43 PM
Dec 2011

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343768,00.html

So if you have anything that backs up your claim, I'd be glad to see it.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
142. The FBI declared animal rights activism their #1 anti-terror priority in 2005
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 12:39 AM
Dec 2011

Your claim:

"The FBI declared animal rights activism their #1 anti-terror priority in 2005"


What they actually said, from your link:

"The No. 1 domestic terrorism threat is the eco-terrorism, animal-rights movement,"


They limited the scope to domestic terrorism and they lumped the animal-rights movement in with eco-terrorism. There is no way domestic terrorism is going to hold a candle to foreign terrorism, even within the FBI. Just check their most wanted list if you need evidence of this. So all of this is very far from your claim. Furthermore, they are right. During the Bush years, right wing domestic terrorists were mostly quiet, while left wing domestic terrorists have been on the rise for many years committing numerous acts of arson, bombings, and threatening people's lives. The ADL happens to agree with the FBI.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ecoterrorism.asp

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
149. I just asked for proof of your assertion
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:05 AM
Dec 2011

If you had no intention of supporting it, you could have said that up front. Would have saved a lot of time.

Just sayin'

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
151. well yes, you did need the explanation, because your assertion is wrong
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:09 AM
Dec 2011

There is a difference between the two, as the other poster ably pointed out. You can't argue one thing, then pretend that you weren't. It's much simpler to just admit that you made a small error, and move along with life.

Pachamama

(16,874 posts)
49. Why cant they just be charged under existing laws for trespassing? Answer: because the precident is
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:56 PM
Dec 2011

Being established in which people who conduct any kind of surveillance are guilty then of laws set for combating terrorism which of course supercedes many of our civil liberties and constitutional protections.

All these things are being put into place and the use of the term "terrorism" "war on terrorism" and all the things being justified in the name of fighting terrorism will only continue to take us closer and closer to the Police State we are becoming.

Pachamama

(16,874 posts)
61. Just connecting the dots for the bigger picture...
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:35 PM
Dec 2011

And I am very frightened by the picture that is starting to come into view....

Wind Dancer

(3,618 posts)
57. Exactly.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:27 PM
Dec 2011

Wish I could recommend this post.

You really should start a separate thread about this topic.

Pachamama

(16,874 posts)
59. I might just do that....
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:33 PM
Dec 2011

Thanks for the suggestion.... i think this is a topic we all need to be discussing more...

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
95. The can't be charged with trespassing because they actually get hired
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 08:35 AM
Dec 2011

at these factory farms. They work every day and get a paycheck. They make the decision to uproot their lives for a certain amount of time and move away from their homes in order to do this. They are, for the most part, all alone as they do this--concerned each day they'll be found out.

I see your greater point but I just wanted to point out the process these whistleblowers go through. If the factory farms cleaned up their acts (and if the FBI or local police investigated the people in these videos abusing animals) there wouldn't be a need to label whistleblowers as terrorists.

Pachamama

(16,874 posts)
110. Are all the activists/whistleblowers who expose these factory farms for what they are always
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:40 AM
Dec 2011

Employees? Even if it that was the case, there has to be some other means that perhaps the factory farm owner has a "non-disclosure agreement" or employment agreement that maybe they charge those employees with violating. And even if that was the case, my hope is that whistleblower laws would supercede that. And even then, wouldnt they need to know who filmed it in order to prosecute? What if the videotaping was anonymous?

But charging these people as if they were terrorists? This is absolutely insane! But once again, I get back to the bigger picture which is that all these things seem to be set up so that eventually anyone who is a whistleblower against corporate crime (or government crime) will be punished.

As another poster in the thread said: activism=terrorism How handy!

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
53. How long till its considered an act of terror to protest wall street thievery or capitalism itself?
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:13 PM
Dec 2011

After all it could cause economic lost right?

Welcome to the american capitalist/fascist nightmare...

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
60. Not that you'd know this
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:33 PM
Dec 2011

but I've done a lot of AR work and still do. I could have been one of those trespassing terrorists for rescuing a calf that were left to die simply because it was too weak from dehydration to make it from the truck to the slaughterhouse on its own. We went in, grabbed it and took it to Suwanna Ranch.

All it needed was some water.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
69. No disrespect intended.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:58 AM
Dec 2011

When this initially came into being, some of us "AR people" tried to get people informed about AETA, but got a "meh" from DU. Seemed that DU was fine with it as long as it was just those AR "terrorists" who got targeted.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
73. I'm sorry about that
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:07 AM
Dec 2011

I didn't take it as disrespect. I just wanted to throw that out there for what it was worth.

Solidarity

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
92. I'm a die hard meat eater and
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 05:00 AM
Dec 2011

I do not TRUST the quality of food from companies that abuse food animals. I do not trust the company of those who abuse animals, as they may get around to abusing humans.

That and I just don't LIKE animal abusers.

yewberry

(6,530 posts)
74. A guy goes to the doctor
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:15 AM
Dec 2011

with celery sticking out of his nose, lettuce sticking out of one ear, and zucchini sticking out of the other.

He asks the doctor what is wrong.

"Well, for one, thing, " the doctor says, "you're not eating right!"

Ba-dum-ching.

flvegan

(64,389 posts)
72. Thanks.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:07 AM
Dec 2011

All things considered, when they can come kick your door in at any moment, you stay on top of it if for no other reason.

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
63. And there it is.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 11:04 PM
Dec 2011

The logical progression of the twisting of language. War on Poverty. War on Drugs. War on Terror.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
78. Yes, it started years ago.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:28 AM
Dec 2011

Supposedly aimed at radicals who would destroy property, but the language clearly stated that anything causing economic loss / disrupting commerce would be considered a terrorist act.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
75. Is any one reading this feeling chills over the Defense Appropriates Act?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:15 AM
Dec 2011

This is exactly the sort of thing of which I've been afraid.

OWS is out to raise corporate taxes. Is that, too, terrorism?

TBF

(31,922 posts)
102. No kidding ... I spent a few days posting about the ACLU's concerns with this law -
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 09:33 AM
Dec 2011

and anyone who thinks we are exaggerating should be reading about the Wilson administration and Palmer raids.

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
84. Where's all the defender's of this law?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 02:37 AM
Dec 2011

I just read all the posts in this thread and nobody has tried to defend this law.

Nobody here supports it. Not that DU is politically representative of the county as a whole, but I'd bet the vast majority of the American people would be opposed to this law that categorizes this peaceful activism as terrorism.

Too bad what the American people want has nothing to do with laws passed by our government.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
89. A moderate post-partisan repeal it?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 04:27 AM
Dec 2011

Feinstein voted for it for crying out loud. It has built in exemptions for "protest" but that still didn't preclude several protesters from being under house arrest for a year (ie, indefinite dentition; the case was thrown out). It's a shitty law that has no hope of being repealed without a progressive Senate and House. And we haven't had that in who knows how long, if ever.

Pachamama

(16,874 posts)
124. Never stop asking those "inconvenient questions" Nadine...
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 02:13 PM
Dec 2011


Glad you and others do....its the day when you either stop or are stopped that I worry about....

Peter1x9

(311 posts)
90. There's nothing like good old American Fascism.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 04:53 AM
Dec 2011

Somewhere in a deep corner of Hell, Adolf Hitler is celebrating.

Shoe Horn

(302 posts)
91. Some people act like the president controls the police-military-business community.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 04:57 AM
Dec 2011

He doesn't. Far as I know. And probably hasn't for 50 years.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2465144342633379864

ellie

(6,928 posts)
104. Jesus, what a bunch of shit this is.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 09:47 AM
Dec 2011

Terrorists? Really? God forbid these businesses should lose money because they are cruel to animals. The horror!

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
121. I agree with you
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:34 PM
Dec 2011

The good thing is that more people are paying attention. It's good to see you again.

 

TownDrunk2

(63 posts)
108. As I've said before ... "national security" is code for corporate profits
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:17 AM
Dec 2011

I can't adequately express my revulsion towards the eff bee eye because of this.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
113. Coming soon to your neighborhood, Mom and Pop terrorist shops.
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:53 AM
Dec 2011

How long before small businesses, eating into coporate profits, are declared terrorist organizations?

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
114. Animal activists caused economic harm?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 11:00 AM
Dec 2011

I'm more concerned with the physical harm to consumers caused by unsafe practices and factory farms. Once again government seems more concerned with corporate interests rather than protecting individuals.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
118. Looks like Fl has the Ag Gag back up also
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:38 PM
Dec 2011

I got this today in my email
Earlier this year a bill was introduced in Florida by Senator Jim Norman that would have made it a felony to take photos or video of a farm or agriculture operation.

The “Ag Gag” bill was openly supported by Big Ag and directed at both whistle-blowers who go undercover to document the cruelty that animals on farms suffer, as well as anyone who wants to just snap a shot while standing on the side of the road. Those documenting what they saw would have been left facing criminal charges, while abusers would be left unaccountable. Fortunately, the bill never came to a vote and similar measures failed in Minnesota, Iowa and New York.

Sen. Norman has reintroduced this legislation by sneaking similar language into a larger agricultural bill (SB 1184), which will make it a first-degree misdemeanor to take photos, audio recordings or video of a farm or farm operation without previous written consent.

All of this was done with urging from Wilton Simpson of Simpson Farms, which “produces 21 million eggs annually for Florida’s second-largest egg seller, Tampa Farm Service,” according to the Florida Independent. Simpson reportedly fears activists will gather dirt on factory farms for campaigns that could lead to a ballot initiative similar to California’s Prop 2. Simpson’s also currently running for senate.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/floridas-ag-gag-bill-reintroduced.html#ixzz1hBiVHe3w

 

krucial

(206 posts)
119. I Called this back in during the Bush/Cheney regime
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:40 PM
Dec 2011

I told people that America was heading towards fascism ,but some thought I was crazy,but we have been seeing that we are slowly but surely heading towards a total repressive police state,and gertting to be just like the Tyranical doctaors we have been suporrting in the middle east and other places around the world.
We set them up with torture chamers and other forms of opression to supress their masses, and now are applying it on our own citizens here in America

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
128. As one Prosecutor said "I can get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich" Conviction is another
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 02:46 PM
Dec 2011

story. Investigations aren't charges and charges aren't convictions.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
153. Investigations and charges waste activists time and money.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:26 AM
Dec 2011

Resources that get used on legal defense instead of activism are a victory for industry.

alp227

(31,961 posts)
129. why can't factory farming be illegal instead?
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 02:54 PM
Dec 2011

And corporate personhood must have something to do with this ridiculous "economic disruption=terrorism" provision.

tpsbmam

(3,927 posts)
137. And when this DHS report...“Rightwing Extremism:...." for police & other groups was leaked,
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 06:33 PM
Dec 2011

the right wing threw a total hissy fit and the report was fucking pulled.

“Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment" http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

And it was based on FACT -- all of this has been documented by the Southern Poverty Law Center, among other groups. The report was based on actual violence and threats of violence, not on people fucking protesting. But nooooooooooo, the right-wing has a hissy fit and all D.C. fucking quivers! Unbefuckinglievable! These right-wing nutcases, a la McVeigh and his ilk, ARE domestic terrorists, but god forbid they actually call THESE violence-prone whack-a-doodles "terrorists" or even "extremists."

Fascist is the correct term for what this country has become. Horrifying.



Edit: forgot the close-quote in the title.






gtar100

(4,192 posts)
146. Nothing is more important to conservatives than money.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 12:53 AM
Dec 2011

Nothing.

Instead of dealing with the real problem in a sane, rational way, industry lobbies to make illegal the means by which their bad practices exposed. That is really fucked up. I suppose there are a few executives and lobbyists out there that feel mighty damn proud of themselves. All the while they make our justice system an absolute joke.

Cry for the animals for their lives are a living hell as they are tortured over and over again for years before they are slaughtered.

And, ironically, all those small-government conservatives are using the protection of that very same government they criticize to hide their cruelty. They really don't believe in a free market after all, do they! Or for that matter, small government.

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