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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI think it is time to start talking about war culture.
Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 06:06 AM - Edit history (3)
I've been reading a little bit lately about the endeavor by Feminists to define and identify
rape culture and I've come to think that perhaps something similar should be done
when it comes to war (perhaps they are even somewhat related). What is war culture?
I think it is pretty hard to define it conclusively, since it
is more of a "you know it if you see it" type of thing but if I had to I would
use the following definition:
It is a many-faceted complex phenomenon
but roughly speaking, it is a set of cultural norms that make war more likely
and/or promote war as the normal state of things.
From the top of my head a couple of examples come to mind. I've compiled a list
of things that I can think of and I'd be happy if DU could help me add to it.
For example, war culture is...
...peddling the belief that cooperation between two strangers of
the same nationality is more natural than cooperation between
two strangers of different nationalities.
...envoking grand historical and/or mythological analogies
to justify foreign policy. (The founding fathers, the Roman empire,
the battle against Hitler, 300 Spartans, "city on the hill" ...)
...peddling simplistic "good vs. evil" narratives in the context
of foreign civil wars. ("Let's help the good Croatians against the evil
Serbs."
...national myth-building to cover up or justify atrocities of the past.
("The atomic bombs on Japan saved millions of lives on both sides."
...national myth-building which over-emphasizes the importance of
the military.
("The country was founded on the backs of our troops"
...exaggerating the impact of one's own nation on historical events
while downplaying the impact of other nations.
("The USA saved the world from the nazis. Russia? Never heard of it."
...rationalizing acts of war by saying that they are not as bad as previous
acts of war.
("Drone strikes are ok because they are not as bad as carpet bombing."
...rationalizing acts of war by claiming that they are the norm amongst nations.
("Every country acts in its interest."
...rationalizing acts of war by claiming that they are inevitable.
("There will always be war."
...making it socially acceptable to enlist in the military without
understanding the broader political context. ("Blame the leaders!"
...making it socially acceptable to enlist while a war of aggression
is being waged. ("When the bugle calls you answer!"
...accepting the cover-up of international crimes committed by one's government.
("If US presidents could be prosecuted the US would become a banana republic."
...peddling an interpretation of history that emphasizes the importance of struggles
between nations and/or tribes (rather than, say, the struggles between social classes).
...equating pacifism with support for an enemy.
...tying the physical education of children into a framework that promotes the military.
...using the phrase "sometimes war is necessary" in times of perpetual senseless war.
...thinking that being under orders is an excuse.
...the belief that being disloyal to one's nation is an intrinsically immoral thing
(likewise, the perpetual use of words such as "traitor" in a derogatory manner).
...the belief that loyalty to one's nation is intrinsically moral.
...justifying collateral damage with the excuse that "the enemy used them as human shields".
...focusing on the hardships of those guilty of atrocities rather than on the victims.
...having the economy set up in a way that provides financial incentives for war.
...when "war presidents" have a higher chance of being re-elected.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)dealing with one groups pet rant?
I took part in a war what do you want to know. or do you know it all from the sidelines?
Do you buy into the idea of making joining the military acceptable is war culture?
So all us vets are now war culture and to be looked on as you do a rapist in rape culture?
This mass mind fucking is sick IMHO
Lars39
(26,109 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Can't you express yourself?this isn't about putting me down.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)And a lot of us who have been to war are happy to see resistance.
merrily
(45,251 posts)My husband was in the military for several years, but I did not serve, unless being an Army wife is considered serving. It sure wasn't as emphasized then as it is now.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Taking part in a war is a different issue from cultivating a war culture. Ask anyone who fought in World War II.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)One thing that always bothered me was tv commercials to join the military during a time of war. They make it seem so innocent, as if you won't come home with traumatic ptsd, missing limbs, or in a coffin. Seems macabre.
TBF
(32,040 posts)topic but you will have NRA trolls attack you over it. It is in their financial interest to promote war and a warlike culture.
A $6 Billion industry which brings in over $300 Million in taxes. Smith-Wesson's earnings alone are $40 Million/year.
That is what is at stake and that is why the NRA fights so hard.
Resources:
http://www.nssf.org/Impact/
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/1217/US-gun-industry-is-thriving.-Seven-key-figures/31.8-billion
http://classicvalueinvestors.com/i/2010/10/smith-wesson-swhc-took-a-bullet-but-is-ready-for-growth/
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)In the satellite technology that you use every day
Is that war culture?
TBF
(32,040 posts)Or any of the NRA folks who sign up.
I am against the military industrial complex. I think there are better ways to use our resources. Period.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Be pure
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)You are truly just throwing it on the wall to see what sticks.
TBF
(32,040 posts)way to intentionally distort.
I said I'm not fighting with military/NRA enthusiasts - whomever they may be. It was a statement as opposed to an accusation.
ETA - Although I also just looked and you both have "Gun Control & RKBA" as favorite group. Color me surprised.
sarisataka
(18,570 posts)Laughing...
SQUEE and upaloopa lumped together.
Talk about false impressions
TBF
(32,040 posts)obviously I do not visit the group. And I can promise to continue staying out.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)in that jet propulsion technology we use every day. Notwithstanding that I'm not a big fan of the Nazis.
2banon
(7,321 posts)over the top, hostile response doesn't get you there either.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It happens that one of the sicknesses of this country is to be able to appropriate money for the military and little else. So things get done by the military. For example, Roosevelt conceived of a national highway system. A lot of it got built under Ike--as a need of national defense.
If we had less of a war culture, the highway still could have been built.
The OP put a lot of effort coming up with characteristics of war culture. Did you see satellite technology in thread opener?
merrily
(45,251 posts)(I don't know if was referred to as a war tax, but FDR increased taxes to pay for WWII. Don't know what Wilson did for World War I.)
I think the country should impose a war tax to pay for all costs of wars--the costs of maintaining the military, the insane amounts we pay to military contractors, veteran's benefits and rehab, everything last penny. Even the costs of supporting the families. Homeland Security and NSA and the Secret Service, too. CIA, FBI. Everything being done in the name of keeping us safe.
I don't send anyone to war. Don't tax me and then ask me to dip into my own pocket to pay for the needs created by the wars you declare (or wage unconstitutionally). You choose them, you pay for them and you tell your voters what your decisions are costing them. And intentionally falsifying or disguising any of those costs in any communication from our alleged representatives should be a felony. Let's see if that changes the war culture.
Squinch
(50,935 posts)a culture in which those who control the means of government are also those who receive enormous financial benefits from war.
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)The massive military -- and all the other stuff not called military which is really military -- like the VA, Homeland Security, Atomic Energy, and servicing the debt of past military spending that the RepubliCons put on the credit card is bankrupting our country.
Initech
(100,059 posts)sarisataka
(18,570 posts)But overly simplistic. Also the points take some liberties that aren't reflected in reality.
Sometimes war is necessary
War is always a diplomatic failure
War is inevitable if one side desires it (I believe Ghandi said that)
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)And worth dying for.
The problem is that the bastards who send us to useless wars don't have a clue.
sarisataka
(18,570 posts)Also, for the most part, the bastards sending us have never been there. If they had been, they'd know war isn't a John Wayne film festival...
It doesn't hurt that their kids are comfortably secured in approved educational institutions and never need worry about traveling to some dark alley of the world and fight some chump over the choicest trash can.
IME put grunts from each side together with a few six packs and a soccer ball and they'll solve the conflict before the beer is gone.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)...I had lunch at a coffee plantation with veterans of the ARVNs, the VC, the NVA. We were having a great time, and at one point I remarked that I wished we were doing this back then, instead of killing each other.
AT that point, we were all in tears.
sarisataka
(18,570 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:40 PM - Edit history (1)
Going back and meeting some of my former opponents. Unfortunately SW Asia is still' unsettled'
We all heal over time. Take care elder brother
Hip_Flask
(233 posts)... you know has blown you up in the past or is going to try to blow you up as soon as your meeting is complete and you are RTB.
merrily
(45,251 posts)And sometimes, it's necessary only because we choose it over developing and perfecting other skills.
And sometimes, it's necessary only because our own actions have engendered hatred.
Everyone cites World War II. That situation happened once in the history of all humankind. And the "peace" crafted at the end of World I was so onerous and demoralizing on Germans that it facilitated the rise of that monster and the success of his unspeakable policies and actions.
I am not saying no one had any other choice. I am saying that we and the other nations helped create a climate in which he could flourish.
When you act from a place of respect for your fellow human and his or her life, a lot of the above is not eliminated, but ameliorated.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)We do need to have the conversation badly.
I was very upset recently by a very disturbing interaction with someone that exhibited a blatant sociopathic indifference to the deaths of several children while refusing to believe or admit we bear any responsibility whatsoever for killing them, the coldness deeply shocked me and upset me..
having read your post I think we should add another to the list of war culture thinking:
...Ignoring the slaughter of innocent children and dehumanizing them by referring to them as "bug splats" while exhibiting a cold indifference to their deaths because "one cannot produce the classified order for the strike"
You have done so well with your well thought out post you would certainly be able to word it better. I will PM a link to the exchange so you can evaluate yourself if such an attitude and reaction might qualify as a war culture item. the exchange truly shocked me and I realized in a personal way there are people born without a shred of empathy. I am not familiar with him or his normal posting habits but he made my skin crawl so badly he is now on ignore.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)with the entire world - including the United States - considered a battlefield and, as so many posters on this site constantly parrot, there are no Constitutional rights on a battlefield. The Obama Administration took that ball and enthusiastically ran with it, greatly expanding far beyond Bush's wildest dreams the number of countries in which our military is operating and the ways in which the national security state solidifies its grip on us.
Civil rights are always one of the casualties of war, whether it's Lincoln's suspension of habeus corpus, or Roosevelt's internment of Japanese-Americans. With previous wars we grudgingly accepted these limitations on our personal liberties, because we knew that eventually the war would be over and things would go back to normal.
However we have now evolved into a culture that is always at "war", with an enemy that cannot really be defined and cannot really be defeated. There is no end in sight for this "war." Yet we are expected to surrender more of our personal freedoms to the national security state "to keep us safe" in this time of Forever War.
Essentially, the rights and freedoms we fought so hard to win and which the military pretends to secure for us by bombing third world tribesmen are gone. We cannot expect them to return, because the "war" will never be over.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They need to remind me: What clause in the Constitution says that"
The Framers had just fought a war. Hence their need for a Constitution (unless they wanted a dictatorship of some kind). You'd think suspension of Constitutional rights during war would have been right on the tip of their tongue. So, I guess government can forbid troops on a battlefield from praying in the manner, and to the being, of their choice?
Anyway, the only war being waged on my one is the one by all the cameras against my privacy. IOW, it's not a battlefield at all, except to the extent that government pretends it is.
Sometimes, this board brings to mind the title of an old movie, namely, Say Anything. It's been an education. I used to think that kind of thing was the exclusive province of the right. Another example of why stereotypes are evil.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Don't like what some "radical cleric" is saying, and the pesky Constitution prevents you from rounding him up and throwing him in jail? Just declare his country a "battlefield", claim that it's "too dangerous" to apprehend him, then drop a hellfire missile on him (and his teenaged son, for good measure).
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The US has been slavering for war since its foundation. It's Truman who put an enemy in every closet and under every bed. All Bush did was revitalize it by replacing "commies" with "turrists."
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)about battleships of the second world war or some shit. The sort that they try and sell on the TV for four easy instalments of 29.95. Apparently when you get to a certain age and real pornography doesn't do it for you anymore you're supposed to switch over to this stuff.
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)Culture exists in the context of a multitude of realities that define it. If you want to change war culture, find a way for this country to change its consumption habits so we don't have to garrison the planet to protect our empire. But you can't just decide that war is bad and not accept the economic consequences that go along with it.
2banon
(7,321 posts).....and thanks to a bloodthirsty corporate media, promoting neo-cold war hawks salivating for a military showdown with Russia (the real game) makes this discussion timely as ever.
Actually, to talk about war culture I think, we have to discuss the culture and the psychology of imperialism which makes war of aggression not only possible but inevitable.
But getting this started is a good thing and I appreciate you taking the initiative..
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)that appears to have taken over our country's motive for most of our "unofficial wars" waged all over the globe.
The fact that it is a corporate imperialism rather than a royal one matters little to all those killed to protect the interests the purchasers of our government have in the resources they covet in all those very same places were we wage said war.
2banon
(7,321 posts)to invade Iraq. IMHO.
Not to ignore all of the other unjustified invasions, regime changes we've engaged in the past 60 + years and even in the late 19th century. But I want to put the brakes on the one in front of us right now..
i fear Obama might succumb to the pressure being applied by the salivating cold-war hawks, including his old pal Leon Panetta former SoD and Former Director of the CiA, no doubt whispering in his ear at every opportunity. Even if he doesn't have his ear, there's plenty of his ilk who do. If Hillary has any sense at all, she will keep her own council on this matter, and stfu. But that's like asking for the moon, I know.
TBF
(32,040 posts)a discussion on imperialism. There is an interesting chart on Wiki listing the wars involving the US thus far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
It would be a far shorter chart if they simply listed the years we have NOT been at war (or in conflict).
2banon
(7,321 posts)among an endless list of stunning surprises. jeeze. fascinating chart!
nikto
(3,284 posts)With $$$Money$$$,
to America's ruling elites.
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)as we destroy it and wipe out 100,000+ of it's women, children and men. See Iraq.
swilton
(5,069 posts)disaggregate the war culture from the gun culture....It seems that the two are symbiotic - it also seems that author/social historian Richard Slotkin (Gunfighter Nation) believes that our current wars are just products/extensions of our gunfighter-frontier culture....
http://billmoyers.com/guest/richard-slotkin/
zeemike
(18,998 posts)but what drives this is the media, and it is overlooked all the time.
If you look at what your kids are watching on the TV and seeing in the movies objectively you can see how it is imprinted in their brain that to be a warrior and kill the enemy is to be a hero and to be admired by all.
And I don't think it is any accident that we have that kind of media....it serves the MIC.
I think back for an example in simple terms and come up with Star Treck...which when it first came on said the mission was to explore new worlds....and before we knew it it was about Star Wars, and science fiction for the most part after that was about war.
And then there was Rambo...which provided emotional justification for killing people...and now a movie is not a good movie unless it has explosions and mass killing with automatic weapons.
It is a dumbing down of people in a dangerous and violent way...and violence should be expected...violence is our new pornography
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)One loses count...
Hip_Flask
(233 posts)Oops... 613....
Forgot the culture war against the left handed...
Crap.. 614..
Gingers.. always forget about the gingers...
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Hip_Flask
(233 posts)... if they'll ever go through with it to get the gag and then make ginger jokes for a few years until he rotates out.
Go back, pick up the Ponds and Vincent and have a red headed circus...
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)You know what all of those "cultures" have in common? They all belong to our culture.
Why not talk about ways to change our one culture instead of introducing 894730957834590734097539 cultures? It's just as annoying as adding "-gate" to every political scandal.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Absolute spot-on description. The good general, who received two Medals of Honor and singlehandedly stopped the fascist coup against FDR, also observed what you did, raouldukelives. Our main export was death. Imports varied by nation looted.:
"War is a racket. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives." -- Smedley D. Butler
Butler said he felt like a gangster collecting for racketeers.
For DUers and all who enjoy reading about the nation's true state of affairs: "War Is a Racket" in PDF form.
My 2-cents:
Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn t win WWII, so they backed Bushes
And for those wondering why generation upon generation are called on to fight and pay for the wars for profit:
"Money trumps peace." -- pretzeldent George W Bush
PS: Anyone want to ask me about Trireme Partnerships?
Augiedog
(2,545 posts)John Locke might tell you that all societies are in a state of nature, or war, with each other. Thus the necessity of treaties, alliances and things like NATO and the United Nations. Seemingly we as humans are to one degree or another fated to be conquerors or the conquered. The real problem comes when Machiavelli's Princes start thinking they are invincible and can waste their population in senseless wars of colonialism and imperialism. Bush/Cheney are of this ilk and history will accurately record them as the war criminals they are.
It matters too that we don't hold these war politicians/profiteers to account for their crimes. So they will continue to behave in this manner because not only are they not punished for their actions, they are rewarded. When you have a political party that has no agenda if it can't prosecute some sort of slaughter in a foreign land containing folks who appear different to us and don't pray to the appropriate god, perhaps don't even subscribe to the capitalist supreme being, cash, you have a bizarre privileged elite who dine on the blood of sheeples, for an equally bizarre reason; we let them.
The Republican Party has found a fear based formula to keep us sheeples in thrall to the boogey men across the world who, if we don't act now, is going to do "the terrible thing" to us that we must fear, and fear now. War is more than a political tool used upon other nations, it is a control tool used to keep the populace nailed down and at each other's throats. Think of all the times you have heard that you must support the troops, what they really mean is don't you dare question our policy...or else. And so we have had and will continue to have unnecessary war(s), and your families will die in them all so an elite few can maintain a bizarre privilege of power. I am a viet nam war vet and am sick of this crap, but we can change all this.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I am opposed to all things War Machine.
clandestiny
(47 posts)China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia Serbia 1999
Afghanistan 2001
Libya 2011
http://www.globalresearch.ca/list-of-countries-the-usa-has-bombed-since-the-end-of-world-war-ii/24626
The old saying goes - You get what you deserve.There are approximately 330 million Americans, and what have anyone of us done to stop children and innocents murdered in our name? What do we Americans deserve?
Shame on us all.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Albert Einstein
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Thanks for all the input!