Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:14 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

Hey America! Don't like some law? Get together a couple hundred of your friends with guns!

The law won't be in effect any more so long as you and a couple hundred friends have guns and say you won't abide by the law!

Welcome to Galt's Gulch, where freedom reigns!

We're now livin' the Ayn Rand dream here in America!

205 replies, 26885 views

Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread

Reply to this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

205 replies	Author	Time	Post
Hey America! Don't like some law? Get together a couple hundred of your friends with guns! (Original post)	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	OP
OWS take note. nt	HooptieWagon	Apr 2014	#1
Read the fine print.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#2
Wrong. Offer only valid to heavily-armed group.	HooptieWagon	Apr 2014	#5
Yeah right.	RedCappedBandit	Apr 2014	#53
How did unarmed unions do before acquiring mafia muscle?	HooptieWagon	Apr 2014	#152
Beg to differ. I've seen how well the Bureau of Land Management maintains publicly owned lands out	ancianita	Apr 2014	#150
How are we differing?	HooptieWagon	Apr 2014	#155
The BLM isn't a security group, doesn't have the authority or firepower to stand up to guns. It's	ancianita	Apr 2014	#166
Thank you for your post, anicanita.	Cha	Apr 2014	#194
Well said. And that's where we are. And if we don't get seriously	ballyhoo	Apr 2014	#165
That's what I got out of the whole ordeal.	Vashta Nerada	Apr 2014	#3
Lol	BlindTiresias	Apr 2014	#4
Although to be fair	BlindTiresias	Apr 2014	#6
It also helps to have Fox News on your side.	CJCRANE	Apr 2014	#7
You really believe that this moran's stunt was worthy of...	99Forever	Apr 2014	#8
You really think letting hundreds of gun toting terrorists believe the threat of violence	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#9
These jackasses were spoiling for a confrontation.	99Forever	Apr 2014	#15
IF by "more complicated" you mean Bundy gets the money	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#16
Yeah, that's what "I meant."	99Forever	Apr 2014	#17
News flash	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#21
Thank you Judge MohRokTah.	99Forever	Apr 2014	#31
Wait and see. eom	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#33
Nope, I want to see right now!	99Forever	Apr 2014	#36
Or embolden	Aerows	Apr 2014	#126
Just the opposite. Their lives are to become much more	ballyhoo	Apr 2014	#168
Settle down, Francis.	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#18
Condecension as ad hominem.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#20
You're running around waving your arms in panic that thousands will be killed.	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#23
Embolden violent terrorists.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#25
Embolden violent authoritarianism and despotism ensues.	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#32
Then we have nothing further to discuss.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#34
The civil rights movement was based on civil disobedience.	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#41
This!!!!	SCUBANOW	Apr 2014	#51
Yep, you pick your battles.	Brigid	Apr 2014	#54
These are words to live by....at least they once were. But I've changed my mind of	snappyturtle	Apr 2014	#115
Like my signature says --	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#131
I'm not advocating violence but letting the 'authorities' know when pushed, shoved,	snappyturtle	Apr 2014	#162
If by "we" you mean you and me as taxpayer owners of that land, hell yeah, not one inch to squatters	ancianita	Apr 2014	#157
I certainly did not. I'd like to see some sources for Bundy having made millions of	snappyturtle	Apr 2014	#164
Yep, satisfied. And I agree with you. This vigilante band thinks this is his land. That "issue,"	ancianita	Apr 2014	#167
Excuse me. My guess would be they didn't like the tactics of the BLM against	snappyturtle	Apr 2014	#171
This guy owns a ranch. He owns double the number of cattle the BLM allows on that acreage. Cattle.	ancianita	Apr 2014	#172
My, my, my. 25% of your posts in Gun Control/RKBA.	Paladin	Apr 2014	#71
"Imagine my lack of surprise......"	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#125
A "poisoning the well" fallacy.	Lizzie Poppet	Apr 2014	#202
He wins this one. And they now know to bring 100s more to the next showdown. Stupid to back off. nt	Logical	Apr 2014	#68
That's the truth....as well as adding 100's more ranchers	Curmudgeoness	Apr 2014	#112
Great point! n-t	Logical	Apr 2014	#161
where are our devout 2A supporters?	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#10
These idiots have been talking about "second amendment solutions" for years.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#11
funny that they ain't here, isn't it?	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#12
All ti takes to fight a federal agent is a few assholes with guns.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#14
LOL, you are so transparent	Electric Monk	Apr 2014	#26
It worked for the milita terrorists in Nevada. eom	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#27
Not really. The BLM just doesn't fight trespassers. They take them to court, is all. This is theater	ancianita	Apr 2014	#174
Me too	Boreal	Apr 2014	#28
And then they'll be replaced by right wing militias	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#128
This is what we're in for.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#130
Want to get really scared?	BlindTiresias	Apr 2014	#138
Isn't that the nutbag that claims Milton Friedman was a socialist?	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#142
More common in the right than you might think	BlindTiresias	Apr 2014	#148
And most people around this country have no idea of any of this	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#191
I can definitely see that scenario emerging.	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#149
Great. Corporate "death squads." Where in hell are the lawyers.	ancianita	Apr 2014	#175
This is all those cute birdies we let loose coming home to roost	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#192
Millions of Americans	Boreal	Apr 2014	#136
I won't argue with you.	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#154
The Department of Education has a SWAT team to deal with the	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#30
The US doesn't have rule of law.	ZombieHorde	Apr 2014	#108
I support the 2A - I do not support Bundy or his dipshit supporters.	hack89	Apr 2014	#107
then what do you think should be done to stop him?	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#110
Wait to the situation calms down	hack89	Apr 2014	#111
I agree, no violence. But it is nice to hear your solution to this guy...	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#114
Please don't put words in my mouth	hack89	Apr 2014	#117
well, fine. That's nice, too. I approve.	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#119
I can't tell you how much that means to me	hack89	Apr 2014	#121
well, my parents told me to be polite...	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#122
You are getting better at it. Nt	hack89	Apr 2014	#124
I'm a feisty third generation Texan so be advised about my nice-ness...	CTyankee	Apr 2014	#129
2A is the law of the land until repealed or modified.	agbdf	Apr 2014	#159
Count me out...	KansDem	Apr 2014	#13
I'm confused--why can't this guy be arrested?	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#19
They can	Dwayne Hicks	Apr 2014	#24
Bundy won't be arrested.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#29
It's up to an agent on site to decide whether someone will be	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#35
This entire thing has been a civil matter from the beginning	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#37
Armed resistance against agents of the government isn't a civil matter.	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#39
Show where Bundy himself was involved in armed resistence.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#42
I guess we'll find out if federal charges are brought. I think he will go to jail.	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#44
I think a few of the militia assholes will be arrested in a few weeks, maybe.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#45
Oh, we'll have to see.	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#47
What?	Dwayne Hicks	Apr 2014	#38
Actually, there were no direct threats made by Bundy.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#40
Yes, I agree	agbdf	Apr 2014	#137
Welcome to DU	gopiscrap	Apr 2014	#193
Nope. He can be arrested for defying this court order which overrides some witnessed "talk."	ancianita	Apr 2014	#176
When? After 21 more years? nt	Logical	Apr 2014	#69
They've reached an agreement with him.	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#43
Did they make either overt or implied threats of violence or present weapons?	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#46
Do not confuse the militia assholes for Bundy.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#48
Conspiracy to commit.	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#49
The feds would have to prove prior contact	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#50
I think they will find he directed some of these clowns, enlisted their help, fed them,	TwilightGardener	Apr 2014	#52
This isn't about contracts. This is about the original BLM permit. Permit. This was reported two	ancianita	Apr 2014	#181
Arrested on what charge?	agbdf	Apr 2014	#205
Worked in Kiev nt	Boreal	Apr 2014	#22
Curious...	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#55
Curious...	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#56
From you	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#63
As a lawyer please do not get your legal help from arm chair DU 'lawyers'.	former9thward	Apr 2014	#70
lol ty	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#76
Yes, as long as you know it is worth what you are being charged ...	former9thward	Apr 2014	#78
No problem	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#81
I have an understanding of contract law.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#74
An "understanding" huh?	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#79
That is how contract law works	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#82
See post 79. n/t	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#87
See post 82. eom	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#88
You are funny.	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#90
I'm really trying to understand why he's so eager for bloodshed?	IronGate	Apr 2014	#91
Maybe	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#92
Could be.	IronGate	Apr 2014	#95
I don't know but I'm pretty sure of one thing --	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#132
Wife is an attorney	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#94
Good for you both.	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#96
It's good to be employed.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#98
Good luck to you.	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#100
Thanks	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#102
Sure I can. I hate your job already!	tazkcmo	Apr 2014	#106
This is what happens when we allow a bunch of right wing haters to arm up.	Hoyt	Apr 2014	#57
PRecisely	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#58
Yep. The BLM should be disarmed.	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#60
right	sweetapogee	Apr 2014	#93
The "never back down" mentality got us Ruby Ridge and Waco. I'm glad the gov backed down	LittleBlue	Apr 2014	#59
I beg to differ, violence WAS the answer here.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#61
Hundreds or thousands would have died	LittleBlue	Apr 2014	#64
there were maybe 3 hundred armed terrorists.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#72
Aaaaand that's why you're not making these decisions	LittleBlue	Apr 2014	#83
This administration is playing it smart. No Janet Renos. No Martyrs	BlueStreak	Apr 2014	#173
Thank goodness you are not in charge of anything.	former9thward	Apr 2014	#75
So you disagree that the threat of the use of violence was how the terrorists won?	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#77
My sky is full of colors.	former9thward	Apr 2014	#85
Not necessarily so. New Mexico citizens I've met in Albuquerque and Silver City speak well of BLM.	ancianita	Apr 2014	#185
Well, we know what color the sky is in your world.	IronGate	Apr 2014	#86
I think more people are worried	Texasgal	Apr 2014	#104
That's PR. That's not how it's really going to go down.	ancianita	Apr 2014	#178
Violence is never the answer.	840high	Apr 2014	#180
It was this time. n/t	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#187
In this case, that decision will come back to hunt all of us	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#101
Yeah, racist gun trafficker Weaver hid behind his wife and kids. Feds gave	Hoyt	Apr 2014	#123
It is and it worked.	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#145
You guys aren't really	SevenSixtyTwo	Apr 2014	#62
Your posts emit an unsettling aura of disappointment	Union Scribe	Apr 2014	#65
My posts are due to a disappointment	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#66
Oh bull.	IronGate	Apr 2014	#73
I'm trying to understand why he is so eager for a shootout.	IronGate	Apr 2014	#67
You noticed that also	oneofthe99	Apr 2014	#127
Do you remember Elian Gonzales?	Savannahmann	Apr 2014	#80
The federal government was NOT bashing people	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#84
The court ordered the surrender of Elian Gonzales too.	Savannahmann	Apr 2014	#89
Guys with guns came and got Elian...	PoliticAverse	Apr 2014	#158
I never said they didn't.	Savannahmann	Apr 2014	#186
Yes, I remember it very well.	Crunchy Frog	Apr 2014	#183
You sure are bloodthirsty, OP	Boreal	Apr 2014	#97
Ad hominems.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#99
said the guy running around claiming terrorists are going to kill thousands.	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#133
I am sure glad I do not do alerts	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#103
I guess you're right	Boreal	Apr 2014	#109
It is not a desire for bloodshed	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#113
Too bad posts cannot be recommended	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#120
Well, sorry but	Boreal	Apr 2014	#182
Don't take my word for it	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#190
Somehow	2naSalit	Apr 2014	#196
For the record, but that is because of the area we cover	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#105
I strongly disagree with you,	ZombieHorde	Apr 2014	#116
I hate being right on this sort of shit, too.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#118
if a black, Hispanic, Muslim Militia tried his, would it not have been forcefully ended?	politicman	Apr 2014	#134
This has been my point all along	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#135
You can bet that they will use this tactic in the future.	Moses2SandyKoufax	Apr 2014	#140
They're already plotting use of the armed terrorist tactic.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#146
Yeah well,	Moses2SandyKoufax	Apr 2014	#156
Agreed	BlindTiresias	Apr 2014	#160
I guess the lesson out of this is that any new OWS movements should arm themselves?	politicman	Apr 2014	#141
OWS would be slaughtered if they did.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#143
"progressives adn liberals need not attempt."	Nuclear Unicorn	Apr 2014	#147
isnt that an indictment on how the feds let this armed group get their way	politicman	Apr 2014	#151
It definitely is an indictment on the whole situation.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#153
Much of this militia WAS Hispanic. That was covered yesterday. n/t	JJChambers	Apr 2014	#139
Ok the, if it was a Muslim Militia, would this have happened?	politicman	Apr 2014	#144
Hell no. There wouldn't be an argument. Muslims would respect federal land law and would have	ancianita	Apr 2014	#163
my hypothetical was to show the absurdity of letting this armed wing nut group..	politicman	Apr 2014	#169
Ah, sorry I missed the ironic note there. You're absolutely right; the sympathy here is misplaced.	ancianita	Apr 2014	#170
Good job	DashOneBravo	Apr 2014	#177
Now that the government has capitulated to insurection, we better expect it everytime the RW doesn't	Taitertots	Apr 2014	#179
Post removed	Post removed	Apr 2014	#184
Yeah because	AnalystInParadise	Apr 2014	#188
Only a couple hundred rightwing friends. If you're a Fred Hampton, say,	villager	Apr 2014	#189
Let me add this just for fun	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#195
Welcome to the age of emboldened white wing nutbags waging an open shooting war.	MohRokTah	Apr 2014	#197
I know, you know, I stopped writing a novel involving militias	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2014	#198
...	maddezmom	Apr 2014	#201
Another reason guns need to be restricted.	AcertainLiz	Apr 2014	#199
OK, something tells me I missed something.	Lady Freedom Returns	Apr 2014	#200
In Roberts America	CFLDem	Apr 2014	#203
I don't understand	LynnTTT	Apr 2014	#204

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:17 PM

HooptieWagon (17,064 posts)

1. OWS take note. nt

Reply to this post

Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:18 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

2. Read the fine print.

Offer only valid to right wing white people.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:28 PM

HooptieWagon (17,064 posts)

5. Wrong. Offer only valid to heavily-armed group.

The Government no longer works for us, nor does it protect our Constitutional rights, such as peaceful assembly. We are very near the point where defense of our Constitutional rights must be undertaken by ourselves. The Govt, and its militarized police forces, serve the interests of corporations and the 0.1% Elite.

Reply to this post

Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:34 PM

RedCappedBandit (5,514 posts)

53. Yeah right.

If a bunch of heavily armed non-whites showed up in Zucotti park they sure as shit wouldn't get their way.

Reply to this post

Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:51 PM

HooptieWagon (17,064 posts)

152. How did unarmed unions do before acquiring mafia muscle?

Hint: not well.

Reply to this post

Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:50 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

150. Beg to differ. I've seen how well the Bureau of Land Management maintains publicly owned lands out

West -- for preventing forest fires and preserving wildlife -- and they're a good department, manned by Americans like you and me. They work hard out in the West, and it's not uncommon for many individuals out there to think they can squat and help themselves to whatever public lands they want. These self-styled 'victim' vigilantes who want to start a 'land war' against the feds are in the wrong. Their interests do not in any way trump the larger public interest.

The fact that the elites are trying to get Congress to allow them buy up all the national parks for fracking and other extraction industries they own should be one good reason you'd support at least a project to put solar panels into lands that can help more Nevadans than does one millionaire cattleman with plenty of his own land to use. At least this project produces energy for the many.

Reply to this post

Response to ancianita (Reply #150)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:56 PM

HooptieWagon (17,064 posts)

155. How are we differing?

I'm merely pointing out the Govt, right or wrong, backed down when facing a heavily-armed large group. Would the govt have backed down if Occupy had showed up instead of an armed militia?

Reply to this post

Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #155)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:28 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

166. The BLM isn't a security group, doesn't have the authority or firepower to stand up to guns. It's

interior land maintenance department that depends on the good will of citizens to respect publicly held land. This is about how the BLM wants to handle the conflict, not the feds.

If the governor asks the feds to come in, then this whole attempt to strong arm BLM would go down differently. But what's happened doesn't prove that armed resistance is either right or scares off the government.

Reply to this post

Response to ancianita (Reply #150)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:35 PM

Cha (289,579 posts)

194. Thank you for your post, anicanita.

Reply to this post

Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:26 PM

ballyhoo (2,060 posts)

165. Well said. And that's where we are. And if we don't get seriously

1955 mean, we are done for. I'd bet a good piece of change that major cities will get hit with drones should too many of the Bundy Brouhahas take place. I think what happened between the ranchers and the Feds was huge.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:18 PM

Vashta Nerada (3,922 posts)

3. That's what I got out of the whole ordeal.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:19 PM

BlindTiresias (1,563 posts)

4. Lol

I mean yeah, this has always been true.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:34 PM

BlindTiresias (1,563 posts)

6. Although to be fair

The federal government will likely freeze his assets.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:41 PM

CJCRANE (18,184 posts)

7. It also helps to have Fox News on your side.

Hannity's Dangerous Game Touting A Rogue Rancher And His Violent Threats

Fox News' Sean Hannity is increasingly -- and dangerously -- taking on the role of PR agent for a Nevada rancher defying the federal government with violent threats.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/04/11/hannitys-dangerous-game-touting-a-rogue-rancher/198864

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:46 PM

99Forever (14,524 posts)

8. You really believe that this moran's stunt was worthy of...

... the loss of human lives?

Well then, it would seem that both you and he have the same kind and level of mentality. No shots fired seems a very much more desirable outcome than what you advocate.

Let all of idiot NRA badasses disperse back to their own "compounds," then go in and arrest the clown. Lock his ass up and throw away the key.

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:49 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

9. You really think letting hundreds of gun toting terrorists believe the threat of violence

is all it takes to avoid fallowing the law is a good thing?

The loss of human lives now that these terrorists have been emboldened will be hundreds, if not thousands of times greater than failing to cave in to their violent threats now.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:55 PM

99Forever (14,524 posts)

15. These jackasses were spoiling for a confrontation.

They didn't get it. And their lives are about to become MUCH more complicated. There's more than one way to skin a dipshit.

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:57 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

16. IF by "more complicated" you mean Bundy gets the money

and continues to illegally use the federal land for grazing, I guess you're right.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:59 PM

99Forever (14,524 posts)

17. Yeah, that's what "I meant."

Good one, dude.

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:07 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

21. News flash

A BLM agent acting under color of authority reaches an agreement with Bundy that is witnessed by Gillespie.

That rises to the level of contract.

Bundy cannot be touched now.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:14 PM

99Forever (14,524 posts)

31. Thank you Judge MohRokTah.

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #31)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:16 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

33. Wait and see. eom

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:19 PM

99Forever (14,524 posts)

36. Nope, I want to see right now!

Really troubles you that there wasn't a bloody firefight, does it MohRokTah?

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:09 PM

Aerows (39,961 posts)

126. Or embolden

a dipshit...

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:33 PM

ballyhoo (2,060 posts)

168. Just the opposite. Their lives are to become much more

evil and aggressive. They'll all end up as ready as the more fierce militias, and I would bet money is now pouring into them from all kinds of types. The next confrontation the government better be ready to do something besides retreat because the other side will be ready for action.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:59 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

18. Settle down, Francis.

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:06 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

20. Condecension as ad hominem.

Fascinating.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:09 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

23. You're running around waving your arms in panic that thousands will be killed.

An unserious statement deserves an unserious response.

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:09 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

25. Embolden violent terrorists.

Violence ensues.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:14 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

32. Embolden violent authoritarianism and despotism ensues.

People before power.

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:17 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

34. Then we have nothing further to discuss.

It's obvious you and I cannot agree and I will no longer take the bait.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #34)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:22 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

41. The civil rights movement was based on civil disobedience.

If people want a law they must understand that they are setting the circumstances wherein they want the government to employ lethal force. Decide what you are willing to kill for. A few hundred cattle on hundreds of thousands of acres of land isn't worth a fight, blind obedience to authoritarianism notwithstanding.

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:32 PM

SCUBANOW (92 posts)

51. This!!!!

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:35 PM

Brigid (17,621 posts)

54. Yep, you pick your battles.

That's what this boils down to.

Reply to this post

Response to Brigid (Reply #54)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:50 PM

snappyturtle (14,656 posts)

115. These are words to live by....at least they once were. But I've changed my mind of

late as I've seen our freedoms eroded. I don't believe we can give an inch anymore. While I do not advocate for violence, I have come to the conclusion that meeting like with like, especially in this instance, MAY have signaled to TPTB that people are tired of being pushed around. Let's not forget all the kettling and harassment (free speech cages) that took place during the political conventions in 2008 and the occurrences of brute force during the peaceful protests of OWS. If we want to keep peddling the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free mantra, does the gov't or its minion subsidiary law enforcement agencies such as the BLM dare to show the world it attacks its citizenry? I hope not. imho

Reply to this post

Response to snappyturtle (Reply #115)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:17 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

131. Like my signature says --

Be the Jell-O balloon cat.

You can't nail Jell-O to a wall. You can't squeeze a balloon. You can't herd cats.

We live in a nation that has 51,000 pages of tax law -- and that's just taxes. For all practical purposes they may as well be publishing laws in secret and then prosecuting people for breaking their secret laws. And in those secret laws are carve-outs for the highest bidders and even then only the richest can afford to obey they law or exploit them to their advantage. And that's just taxes.

Cronies are rewarded. Small businesses and families are being destroyed. Crooks go unpunished while the people are susceptible to becoming criminals even if all they want to do is live their lives peaceably.

We have come to the point where we MUST simply walk away from the dictates they impose upon us. Not violently -- because that's not what Jell-O balloon cats are about -- but we must look tem straight in the eye and demand to know what, exactly, they plan to do with 300 million restive citizens.

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #131)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:15 PM

snappyturtle (14,656 posts)

162. I'm not advocating violence but letting the 'authorities' know when pushed, shoved,

tased and threatened we too will take a stand. Let them think about it. We out number them...and we are restive. Who's to blame for that?

I agree that we must walk away...it's the best...but let's make them think about what it is they're doing to us. All we're doing is reversing the tables.

Reply to this post

Response to snappyturtle (Reply #115)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:59 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

157. If by "we" you mean you and me as taxpayer owners of that land, hell yeah, not one inch to squatters

The BLM waited patiently twenty-plus years for this moocher of public land to move his cattle back onto his own land. I don't know about you, but as far as I'm concerned, he and his band's "issues" are indefensible. He's made his millions off our land while refusing to pay our grazing rights lease fees; so now that he, his entitled Republican gun-totin' vigilante thugs and their FOX echo chamber can cry me a riviera. He's more of a leech than Republicans claim the poor are.

Reply to this post

Response to ancianita (Reply #157)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:24 PM

snappyturtle (14,656 posts)

164. I certainly did not. I'd like to see some sources for Bundy having made millions of

dollars. He owes the money...yes. He was and is taking a stand. As an American citizen he has that right. Will he lose big time...probably. Satisfied?

Along with the validation of his income please forward what the band's (?) "issues" are that you find indefensible.

Reply to this post

Response to snappyturtle (Reply #164)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:31 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

167. Yep, satisfied. And I agree with you. This vigilante band thinks this is his land. That "issue,"

along with their self-styled right to bear arms for some rich squatter in the area. That issue. If they're going to do battle, they'd better be legally right. That issue.

Reply to this post

Response to ancianita (Reply #167)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:42 PM

snappyturtle (14,656 posts)

171. Excuse me. My guess would be they didn't like the tactics of the BLM against

the peaceful protesters armed with call phones and a camera. I don't think arms were to protect Bundy but themselves in a protest situation. If legally carried they have that right, period. Still waiting to hear how Bundy amassed his fortune.

Reply to this post

Response to snappyturtle (Reply #171)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:48 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

172. This guy owns a ranch. He owns double the number of cattle the BLM allows on that acreage. Cattle.

No one who owns cattle is poor. No one who owns a ranch across generations is poor. No one who lawyers up regularly to fight to use public land instead of paying for grazing rights is poor. http://www.thewildlifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Order-US-v.-Bundy-7-9-13.pdf

Still waiting for you to support the greater public interest in all this.

Reply to this post

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:01 PM

Paladin (27,612 posts)

71. My, my, my. 25% of your posts in Gun Control/RKBA.

Imagine my lack of surprise......

Reply to this post

Response to Paladin (Reply #71)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:06 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

125. "Imagine my lack of surprise......"

Imagine my lack of concern.

Reply to this post

Response to Paladin (Reply #71)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:55 AM

Lizzie Poppet (10,164 posts)

202. A "poisoning the well" fallacy.

Imagine my lack of surprise...

Reply to this post

Response to 99Forever (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:59 PM

Logical (22,457 posts)

68. He wins this one. And they now know to bring 100s more to the next showdown. Stupid to back off. nt

Reply to this post

Response to Logical (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:43 PM

Curmudgeoness (18,219 posts)

112. That's the truth....as well as adding 100's more ranchers

to the "we aren't paying to graze" club.

Reply to this post

Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #112)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:14 PM

Logical (22,457 posts)

161. Great point! n-t

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:49 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

10. where are our devout 2A supporters?

come out, come out, wherever you are...

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:50 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

11. These idiots have been talking about "second amendment solutions" for years.

It seems they knew just threatening violence is all it takes to overthrow the rule of law.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:52 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

12. funny that they ain't here, isn't it?

I mean, don't they have a reason to defend the insurrectionists?

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:53 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

14. All ti takes to fight a federal agent is a few assholes with guns.

It really pisses me off that the gun assholes win by threatening gun violence.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:10 PM

Electric Monk (13,869 posts)

26. LOL, you are so transparent

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=421

Reply to this post

Response to Electric Monk (Reply #26)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:11 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

27. It worked for the milita terrorists in Nevada. eom

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:57 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

174. Not really. The BLM just doesn't fight trespassers. They take them to court, is all. This is theater

that in no way shows up the feds to be inconsistent or powerless. The feds are letting the BLM handle this their way, is all. They don't care about the PR like these chest-beating gun nuts do.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:12 PM

Boreal (725 posts)

28. Me too

It really pisses me off that the gun assholes win by threatening gun violence.

Cops have murdered more innocent people in the last decade than all of the US troops killed in Iraq. Not to mention the thousands of family dogs blown away for shits and giggles by these psychopaths hiding behind "the law". The sooner all US, state and local LE are disarmed, the sooner I'll feel safe.

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:13 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

128. And then they'll be replaced by right wing militias

And things will be so much better.

Reply to this post

Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #128)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:14 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

130. This is what we're in for.

Right Wing Militias will end up being what passes for "law" in this country. Don't obey them, you get shot down in the streets.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #130)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:39 PM

BlindTiresias (1,563 posts)

138. Want to get really scared?

Look up Hans-Hermann Hoppe. He is the cutting edge in anarcho-capitalist ideology and is being secretly adopted by the right wing. He specifically advocates for bands of like-minded rightists using force of arms and backed by corporate power to instate a kind of corporate feudalism in which local communities of right wingers dictate the laws based on their own personal conception of what ought to be allowed in a society.

Reply to this post

Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #138)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:42 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

142. Isn't that the nutbag that claims Milton Friedman was a socialist?

I mean seriously, I think he's the nutbag that actually called the University of Chicago school of economic thought "socialism".

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #142)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:48 PM

BlindTiresias (1,563 posts)

148. More common in the right than you might think

Friedman and Hayek both advocated for a negative income tax or basic income system, and have been all but abandoned by the contemporary right wing. You can definitely see the transition in the right wing follow the shift in anarcho-capitalism with resurgent right in the 70's and 80's following people like Friedman and Hayek fairly closely with the modern shift being a distinctly anti-democracy eliminationist one in the model of Hoppe, Rothbard, and Molyneux.

Reply to this post

Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #148)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:31 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

191. And most people around this country have no idea of any of this

If they win, this country is truly going to be up a shit creek, more like Mariana's Trench, without a paddle

Reply to this post

Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #138)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:49 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

149. I can definitely see that scenario emerging.

Especially after today's events.

Reply to this post

Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #138)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:58 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

175. Great. Corporate "death squads." Where in hell are the lawyers.

Reply to this post

Response to ancianita (Reply #175)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:32 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

192. This is all those cute birdies we let loose coming home to roost

Right Wing militias are very common in places like Colombia, they used to be in Chile and Argentina Their favorite targets, reporters, students, union activists, and intellectuals.

Reply to this post

Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #128)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:35 PM

Boreal (725 posts)

136. Millions of Americans

are armed, including some DUers, but it's cops who are on a killing spree, terrorizing families and communities, murdering family pets, murdering innocent people, beating innocent people to a pulp. So, no, I'm not worried about militias, I'm worried about the psychopaths running around killing people and getting away with it. Which militia murdered Miriam Carey? Which militia beat Kelly Thomas to death? What militia shot at a scared mom with a car full of kids? What militia broke into in an innocent family's home and shot their two family dogs who were in crates? Who was the militia that murdered a homeless man for camping? What militia murdered a handcuffed teenager sitting a squad car? What militia shot an old man in a nursing home as he leaned his walker? I could go on and on and on and on.

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #136)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:56 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

154. I won't argue with you.

If you think the RW militias will be kinder and gentler, then more power to you.

I don't think you and I reasonably have anything to say to each other.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:12 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

30. The Department of Education has a SWAT team to deal with the

white collar crime of loan fraud.

It really pisses me off that the gun assholes win by threatening gun violence.

That is the basis of ALL law.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:35 PM

ZombieHorde (29,047 posts)

108. The US doesn't have rule of law.

Torturers can brag about their activities openly and nothing happens to them.

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:33 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

107. I support the 2A - I do not support Bundy or his dipshit supporters.

Why would I?

Reply to this post

Response to hack89 (Reply #107)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:39 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

110. then what do you think should be done to stop him?

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #110)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:42 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

111. Wait to the situation calms down

And then he and the militia folks can be quietly arrested. I oppose a violent solution - it is not worth killing people over.

Reply to this post

Response to hack89 (Reply #111)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:48 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

114. I agree, no violence. But it is nice to hear your solution to this guy...

maybe a quiet overnight in a local motel, then a gentle arrest, followed by a nice arraignment after brunch and a little chit chat among the lawyers, then the gun folks go home all rested and happy...cool beans, bro...

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #114)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:52 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

117. Please don't put words in my mouth

He should have the full force of the law directed at him - he must be made an example of. But in a non-violent way.

Reply to this post

Response to hack89 (Reply #117)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:57 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

119. well, fine. That's nice, too. I approve.

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #119)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:03 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

121. I can't tell you how much that means to me

Reply to this post

Response to hack89 (Reply #121)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:04 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

122. well, my parents told me to be polite...

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #122)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:06 PM

hack89 (39,136 posts)

124. You are getting better at it. Nt

Reply to this post

Response to hack89 (Reply #124)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:13 PM

CTyankee (62,735 posts)

129. I'm a feisty third generation Texan so be advised about my nice-ness...

I live in CT because it suits me better, but my roots are all Southern and Texan...

Reply to this post

Response to CTyankee (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:09 PM

agbdf (200 posts)

159. 2A is the law of the land until repealed or modified.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that the Second Amendment applies to individuals and not just those serving in a government militia. However, the courts have consistently allowed for reasonable regulation of gun possession and gun sales. The way to get around the Second Amendment is to repeal it. I have never had an interest in owning or firing a gun but, until there is a change, debating the validity of the Second Amendment is just as futile as debating those of the First, Third, Fourth - and so on.

The reasonable regulations of firearms allowed under the Second Amendment are to encourage responsible gun ownership. I sincerely doubt that all of the militia members who showed up to support Bundy had responsible motives
in bringing their guns.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 05:52 PM

KansDem (28,498 posts)

13. Count me out...

I don't think I could kick dogs...

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:01 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

19. I'm confused--why can't this guy be arrested?

And all of his backwoods-inbred militia nutter friends too?

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:09 PM

Dwayne Hicks (637 posts)

24. They can

And they will be.

Reply to this post

Response to Dwayne Hicks (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:12 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

29. Bundy won't be arrested.

If a BLM agent acting under color of authority reached an agreement with Bundy that was witnessed by Gillespie as has been reported, that rises to the level of contract and Bundy cannot be touched.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:18 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

35. It's up to an agent on site to decide whether someone will be

held on federal charges (such as threatening federal agents)? I have never heard of this. Wouldn't the FBI get involved?

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:20 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

37. This entire thing has been a civil matter from the beginning

If an agent came to an agreement over how to proceed in the civil matter, the matter is closed.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:21 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

39. Armed resistance against agents of the government isn't a civil matter.

Otherwise who the fuck would ever pay grazing fees again? Who the fuck would ever pay their taxes?

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #39)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:23 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

42. Show where Bundy himself was involved in armed resistence.

Some miliita assholes threatened armed resistance, but Bundy himself never did.

This guy knew what he was doing all along, he's getting what he wanted all along and if anybody pays for it, it will not be him.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #42)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:25 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

44. I guess we'll find out if federal charges are brought. I think he will go to jail.

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:25 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

45. I think a few of the militia assholes will be arrested in a few weeks, maybe.

Bundy gets what he wanted, though.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:27 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

47. Oh, we'll have to see.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:21 PM

Dwayne Hicks (637 posts)

38. What?

HE openly threatened violence against lawful federal agents. That is a class c felony with a 5 year mandatory prison term.

Reply to this post

Response to Dwayne Hicks (Reply #38)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:22 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

40. Actually, there were no direct threats made by Bundy.

Some of the militia assholes posted direct threats online, but Bundy himself never made any direct threats.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:38 PM

agbdf (200 posts)

137. Yes, I agree

It certainly does look to be a fait accompli. Good riddance to this whole ridiculous affair. Bundy and his supporters never deserved the attention showered upon them by mainstream media. By the way, because this was a national news story, I do believe the President was not only briefed on the standoff but, issued the stand down order. I think he chose wisely to call off the BLM agents. So little was to be gained and the potential for tragedy was real. The Waco incident occurred in 1993 and, the following year, it still was weighing on the minds of a significant number who went to the polls. For those of you too young to remember, 1994 was almost as bad for us as 2010 was.

This year, we are in a struggle to retain control of the U.S. Senate and the last thing we need is another Waco style disaster. Good work President Obama!

Reply to this post

Response to agbdf (Reply #137)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:33 PM

gopiscrap (23,323 posts)

193. Welcome to DU

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:03 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

176. Nope. He can be arrested for defying this court order which overrides some witnessed "talk."

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Order-US-v.-Bundy-7-9-13.pdf

Reply to this post

Response to Dwayne Hicks (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:00 PM

Logical (22,457 posts)

69. When? After 21 more years? nt

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:24 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

43. They've reached an agreement with him.

As mentioned above, that reaches the level of contract that I guess supersedes any relevant court orders.

Myself, I would have employed siege tactics. Let Bundy and his buddies eat cows until they're gone and then surrender.

Reply to this post

Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:26 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

46. Did they make either overt or implied threats of violence or present weapons?

Did they block federal agents from BLM land? If they did, I can't see how any "agreement" would stand.

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #46)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:28 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

48. Do not confuse the militia assholes for Bundy.

Bundy wasn't out there threatening violence.

He let others do his dirty work and only those others could ever be charged with anything, if at all.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:29 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

49. Conspiracy to commit.

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:31 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

50. The feds would have to prove prior contact

It was right wing media that fanned the flames on this one and prompted the milita assholes to take action. Bundy didn't to the best of my knowledge, contact any of these militia assholes.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #50)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:33 PM

TwilightGardener (46,416 posts)

52. I think they will find he directed some of these clowns, enlisted their help, fed them,

communicated with them, something. There is no way the federal government will ever let this stand, or we'll have anarchy. They'll wait for everyone to go home, from whatever crapholes they came from, and then arrest him later.

Reply to this post

Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:11 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

181. This isn't about contracts. This is about the original BLM permit. Permit. This was reported two

years ago.

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/11/28/18-years-of-trespass-and-blm-still-hasnt-removed-the-cattle/

Reply to this post

Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 11:56 AM

agbdf (200 posts)

205. Arrested on what charge?

For willfully obstructing a court order he might and probably should be picked up for contempt of court. That's what I think should happen.

Also, referring to the protesters as "backwoods-inbred" is not productive. These are mostly low income people who would benefit most from our party's programs. If African Americans voted 90 percent Republican, instead of with us, would you also use the "N-word" to describe them. The problem with these types of attacks is that through design or otherwise, it dehumanizes other human being. Let's leave that conduct to the other side - they are masters of it.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:08 PM

Boreal (725 posts)

22. Worked in Kiev nt

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:38 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

55. Curious...

Where did you get your law degree?

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #55)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:41 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

56. Curious...

where do you get your news?

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #56)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:48 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

63. From you

"A BLM agent acting under color of authority reaches an agreement with Bundy that is witnessed by Gillespie.

That rises to the level of contract.

Bundy cannot be touched now."

I'm assuming you're a lawyer and have a degree so I was curious from which law school you graduated. I'm in need of a good lawyer...

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #63)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:01 PM

former9thward (30,022 posts)

70. As a lawyer please do not get your legal help from arm chair DU 'lawyers'.

Including me although I am not presently in an armchair. You would do much better just throwing yourself on the mercy of the court.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #70)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:03 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

76. lol ty

I hope you're not charging me for this! Can I get a free initial consult here?

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #76)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:05 PM

former9thward (30,022 posts)

78. Yes, as long as you know it is worth what you are being charged ...

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #78)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:06 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

81. No problem

After all, you get what you pay for!

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #63)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:03 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

74. I have an understanding of contract law.

The only argument the federal government could possibly use was the contract was made under duress.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #74)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:05 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

79. An "understanding" huh?

"A BLM agent acting under color of authority reaches an agreement with Bundy that is witnessed by Gillespie.

That rises to the level of contract.

Bundy cannot be touched now."

May as well have said "I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express."

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #79)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:06 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

82. That is how contract law works

One need not sign a document to be contractually bound to an agreement. One need only agree, and have the agreement witnessed, to be contractually bound.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #82)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:11 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

87. See post 79. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #87)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:12 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

88. See post 82. eom

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #88)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:18 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

90. You are funny.

You make this statement
"A BLM agent acting under color of authority reaches an agreement with Bundy that is witnessed by Gillespie.

That rises to the level of contract.

Bundy cannot be touched now."

and then offer your "understanding of contract law" as your credentials to provide credibility. I would no more allow someone with an understanding of anatomy to do surgery on me than believe your conclusion that "Bundy cannot be touched now.". I'm sure he can and will be "touched" and mean while a potentially violent and ugly incident has been defused.

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #90)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:20 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

91. I'm really trying to understand why he's so eager for bloodshed?

Reply to this post

Response to IronGate (Reply #91)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:21 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

92. Maybe

he has an understanding of mortuary sciences?

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #92)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:22 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

95. Could be.

That would make sense.

Reply to this post

Response to IronGate (Reply #91)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:21 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

132. I don't know but I'm pretty sure of one thing --

he won't be anywhere near it.

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #90)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:22 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

94. Wife is an attorney

And my job involves support of contract negotiation for Fortune 500 companies as I am a management consultant.

If I did not have a deep understanding of contract law, I would not have my job.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #94)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:23 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

96. Good for you both.

I'm glad to hear you are both gainfully employed.

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #96)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:26 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

98. It's good to be employed.

My job is a soul sucking pit of sickening garbage, though, because the contracts I am involved with involve third party outsource agreements.

Five more years and I'm out, though, if I can make it without making myself sick.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #98)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:28 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

100. Good luck to you.

NO bs or snark.

Reply to this post

Response to tazkcmo (Reply #100)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:29 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

102. Thanks

You cannot imagine how badly I want out of this job.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #102)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:33 PM

tazkcmo (7,149 posts)

106. Sure I can. I hate your job already!

I've refused offers of employment from scum sucking, predatory, ruthless companies and I have a job now that I hate with the heat a million suns and will be putting in my one week notice tomorrow because I found a job with a local company that has a soul.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:42 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

57. This is what happens when we allow a bunch of right wing haters to arm up.

It's only going to get worse.

Reply to this post

Response to Hoyt (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:43 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

58. PRecisely

So long as the guns are out there, the gun assholes will use the threat of gun violence in a terroristic way to get their political will.

Reply to this post

Response to Hoyt (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:44 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

60. Yep. The BLM should be disarmed.

Reply to this post

Response to Hoyt (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:21 PM

sweetapogee (1,168 posts)

93. right

It would be like another Matewan, West Virginia.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:44 PM

LittleBlue (10,362 posts)

59. The "never back down" mentality got us Ruby Ridge and Waco. I'm glad the gov backed down

An issue over cattle grazing isn't worth the lives of hundreds of people.

Keep things in perspective. Violence isn't the answer here.

Reply to this post

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:45 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

61. I beg to differ, violence WAS the answer here.

And the violent terrorists won.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:49 PM

LittleBlue (10,362 posts)

64. Hundreds or thousands would have died

senselessly. Better to let them cool off.

It's really not worth starting a small war over something as stupid as cattle grazing. You kill them and they become anti-government martyrs.

Reply to this post

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #64)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:01 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

72. there were maybe 3 hundred armed terrorists.

By not taking a stand, the terrorists have won and will now be even more violent.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:08 PM

LittleBlue (10,362 posts)

83. Aaaaand that's why you're not making these decisions

Do you know how much carnage 300 armed people can cause? You may thirst for blood but most people don't.

Reply to this post

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #64)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:51 PM

BlueStreak (8,377 posts)

173. This administration is playing it smart. No Janet Renos. No Martyrs

They have already hurt Bundy badly. They can lay back, hit him some more in the courts, let the hotheads run out of money, then come back in and finish the job in a month or two. The last thing they want to do is turn a deadbeat asshole into a right-wing martyr.

This is smart. They are playing the long game.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:03 PM

former9thward (30,022 posts)

75. Thank goodness you are not in charge of anything.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #75)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:03 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

77. So you disagree that the threat of the use of violence was how the terrorists won?

What color is the sky in your world?

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #77)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:10 PM

former9thward (30,022 posts)

85. My sky is full of colors.

That is why I love AZ. Waco and Ruby Ridge were disasters. The federal government recognizes that. It is a known fact that Waco is what sent McVeigh over the edge. The cows aren't hurting anybody. The practices of the BLM do not have a good reputation in the West. They need to take a close look at those and move on.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #85)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:25 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

185. Not necessarily so. New Mexico citizens I've met in Albuquerque and Silver City speak well of BLM.

It's not about the cows. It's about their owners.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #77)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:10 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

86. Well, we know what color the sky is in your world.

Red, as in the color of blood.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #77)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:33 PM

Texasgal (16,958 posts)

104. I think more people are worried

about getting food on the table to feed their families. Sorry, priorities and all that.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:05 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

178. That's PR. That's not how it's really going to go down.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:09 PM

840high (17,196 posts)

180. Violence is never the answer.

Reply to this post

Response to 840high (Reply #180)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:29 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

187. It was this time. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:28 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

101. In this case, that decision will come back to hunt all of us

Because all you need to do is threaten violence.

Oh and endangered species is not just cows. There is far more to this than grazing. But I guess that is fine, since who cares about other species?

Sorry, but I can see how many ways this will come back to hunt us as a nation. You think Bundy is alone? I know there are at least ten of that type in my local back country. They just got a free card. All you need to do is get our friends to come along armed, and walla the feds will back down! This will cause more of these incidents, not less.

Reply to this post

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:05 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

123. Yeah, racist gun trafficker Weaver hid behind his wife and kids. Feds gave

racist fun trafficker plenty of time to walk out. Instead, Weaver sent his kid out to murder an agent. Weaver, his love for Ayran Nation, and choice to hide behind his family rather than give up peacefully, caused Ruby Ridge.

Reply to this post

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:44 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

145. It is and it worked.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:45 PM

SevenSixtyTwo (255 posts)

62. You guys aren't really

picturing a bunch of NRA hillbillies up on the berm sitting up on their 1960's pickup trucks with long guns are you? These are very wealthy people working the system and apparently won. Nothing unusual here. The media makes it out to be a cowboys and feds gunfight but that's not the case. This one is all about money, power and politics.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:51 PM

Union Scribe (7,099 posts)

65. Your posts emit an unsettling aura of disappointment

that this didn't end up in an armed confrontation.

Reply to this post

Response to Union Scribe (Reply #65)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:55 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

66. My posts are due to a disappointment

that armed terrorists now dictate what the federal government can and cannot do.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #66)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:01 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

73. Oh bull.

The BLM backed off because cooler heads (not you) determined that an armed confrontation with the real possibility of loss of life on both sides wasn't worth some cattle grazing on public land.
Get real and quit frothing at the mouth for bloodshed.

Reply to this post

Response to Union Scribe (Reply #65)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 06:58 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

67. I'm trying to understand why he is so eager for a shootout.

Reply to this post

Response to Union Scribe (Reply #65)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:09 PM

oneofthe99 (712 posts)

127. You noticed that also

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:05 PM

Savannahmann (3,891 posts)

80. Do you remember Elian Gonzales?

Because if you had your way, there would have been a war in Miami instead of the achievement of the goal.

Let's review what happened in Miami shall we? The Federal Government de-escalated the confrontation and then retrieved the boy with zero casualties. Mission accomplished, and with no dead or injured. A brilliant use of strategic vision.

If you were in charge, the headlines on Sunday would have been about the American Tienanmen Square massacre. Thankfully that did not happen.

Force is best used as a scalpel, slicing as little as possible. You would use it as a sledgehammer bashing your way in. So let's play what if?

The use of the sledgehammer approach at Waco and Ruby Ridge was the justification behind the bombing of Oklahoma City and the bombing of the Olympic Park. In other words, much as we are relearning in the war on terror bashing people inspires more to resist. You never see Elian Gonzales as a poster child for Federal Abuses. You would give them the Range War they want. I wonder why?

Are you so obtuse as to believe that bashing people and killing them makes the victims anything but martyrs? Are you so immature as to believe that gunfights and maiming and death are cool? Even if Federal Authorities had won, it would have instigated more resistance instead of less. Republicans would have had a massive GOTV campaign. Thankfully the people in power are not so obtuse nor as immature. They are looking for the strategic victory, not a tactical win that dooms the nation and the party.

Reply to this post

Response to Savannahmann (Reply #80)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:08 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

84. The federal government was NOT bashing people

The BLM was carrying out its court ordered authority.

Armed terrorists were threatening violence.

The terrorists won.

That's how it went down, now rightwing terrorists nationwide are emboldened and matters will only get worse.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #84)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:15 PM

Savannahmann (3,891 posts)

89. The court ordered the surrender of Elian Gonzales too.

But there wiser heads prevailed and carried out the order wisely. Would you have preferred tanks in Miami to contain the riots? I honestly hope you are never in the position to make a decision like this. Because your Pattonesque grease the treds of our tanks with their guts mentality would lead to a massive public outrage and civil unrest.

Reply to this post

Response to Savannahmann (Reply #89)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:02 PM

PoliticAverse (26,366 posts)

158. Guys with guns came and got Elian...

Reply to this post

Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #158)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:27 PM

Savannahmann (3,891 posts)

186. I never said they didn't.

I said that the government de-escalated the situation instead of attempting to go through the protestors.

Reply to this post

Response to Savannahmann (Reply #80)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:21 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,362 posts)

183. Yes, I remember it very well.

The government used overwhelming force, and Elian was siezed by heavily armed men. They were quick and efficient, and got the boy away from the kidnappers with no bloodshed. And yes, they did use Elian as a poster child.

What they did not do was simply back off and let the kidnappers have their way, as the BLM seems to be doing in this instance.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:26 PM

Boreal (725 posts)

97. You sure are bloodthirsty, OP

Maybe you should be a cop.

Edit: personal remark removed. I stand corrected!

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #97)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:27 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

99. Ad hominems.

The last resort of one with no argument.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #99)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:27 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

133. said the guy running around claiming terrorists are going to kill thousands.

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #97)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:31 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

103. I am sure glad I do not do alerts

but since you are new... that is a personal attack.

Just a heads up

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #103)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:38 PM

Boreal (725 posts)

109. I guess you're right

I don't understand the desire for bloodshed but I'll edit the post.

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #109)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:45 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

113. It is not a desire for bloodshed

I cover rural areas, and I get exactly where the OP is coming from. The old saying, give them an inch and they will take a mile comes to mind.

Of the top of my head I can think of ten folks in my back country that are getting the exact wrong message on this one. So this has the potential of leading to more of these incidents, not less.

It is truly hard rock, and hard place. Ruby Ridge is part of the mythology, but so is the we will fight the damn Feds, who are extremely evil, every time we have a chance. Well, from their POV, they just won. That will embolden them. Ruby Ridge, they did not win.

And trust me, as a former paramedic I abhor violence. This is way out of area of coverage and I sent it to my editor since this is one of those that can have unintended consequences where we travel.

It is also quite a bit of urban vs rural. I live in an urban setting, and most of my neighbors do not really get the danger of the far right hate groups (not just militia) that are part of quite a bit of the rural landscape (and to be fair my local beach bum community}

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #113)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:59 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

120. Too bad posts cannot be recommended

Yours was truly eloquent while being explicitly informative.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #113)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:16 PM

Boreal (725 posts)

182. Well, sorry but

I cannot sympathize with anything you've said. I'm an old school liberal and I oppose heavy handed, authoritarian armed force. I'm also a Gerry Spence fan and I followed ruby Ridge closely. That was entrapment followed by murder. I have no idea what "mythology" you're talking about. I also don't know what you mean about "your" back country. Do you work for the BLM?

I agree that there is an urban v. rural dynamic at play. While I'm not a farmer or rancher, and I don't approve of killing animals for food, I'm sympathetic to a man and his family who only know this way of life and I believe it is threatened, just as small farming has been.

I've seen remarks in these threads about how more tasing should have been done, drones should have been sent in (for what - to kill people???) and I'm appalled. The OP was chomping at the bit for some kind of violent crackdown, while claiming it was citizens who were violent, which isn't true. The only violence was against the animals, tasing the guy's son and shoving a woman to the ground - all done by the BLM.

This man and his cattle aren't harming anyone and thi8s kind of harassment is what's out of line. "Give them an inch..." indeed.

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #182)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:18 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

190. Don't take my word for it

go visit a few sites on the far right, especially the Sovereign Movement and the Neo Nazi movement. I could also recommend the good folks at the Oath Keepers.

It is not about being liberal or not. Or authoritarian or not, or for that matter sympathy. Trust me, to these guys, the Feds are the enemy and so are you. And a good liberal is a dead liberal. What happened today is a victory, as big as not quite Fort Sumpter, more like the shot that rang around the world and started the first American Revolution (The Battle of Lexington and Concord)

As to the mythology of ruby ridge, those sites will make it very very clear for you. So is the idea of a second american revolution, where they will return the country to a mythical past that never existed. But the myth you have partly repeated it, but not fully (The influence of the far right on media). It was not entrapment, it was more like yes, he bought weapons and all that.

I will assume, you can correct me, that you live in a very urban center where you really rarely come across this way of thinking. I live in such an urban center and in my regular group of folks I rarely come across this thinking. In the country side, your ears would burn if you heard some of the things these folks at times say, both about the Federal Government, which just got worst since this uppity (*&*( took over, and I have heard those exact words by the way. But also at times even state government. Some of these folks would rather have absolutely no regulations and no government whatsoever. Part of the reason is those damn wonderful liberals in charge.

And some of this has come out of the mouths of government officials, as in board members, which I find ironic as hell.

The most extreme of these folks want ALL and I mean this, ALL local control. They don't even want a County Department of Public Works. Yes, it is that bad. So when it comes to the FBI, BLM and the rest of the alphabet soups, well then, they really both hate them and fear them.

I used to read those hate sites for fun, these days I have actually met people who believe that crap in the flesh.

And yes, we will have more, no less, incidents.

Reply to this post

Response to Boreal (Reply #182)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:58 PM

2naSalit (79,337 posts)

196. Somehow

I think it would benefit your perspective if you went for a drive out in the Rocky Mountain states, OFF the FREEWAY. You have no clue about which you opine here.

I think, especially in my case where I was flamed for speculating a couple scenarios where the millitiaclowns might have felt a win but not won at all, I say those of you who really don't get what life is like out here should take a road trip and check out the landscape... pictures just don't do it justice.

I happen to live out here in the region and have watched this 2+ decade long train wreck develop... and there are militias in my back yard and my front yard, three within a hundred miles of me (mind you, I often go a hundred miles one way just to go grocery shopping), and that's just in my red state.

The cattle in question in this case are not only on BLM land they are also illegally on lands administered by the NPS - NOT grazing allotment, and this guy is no small fry rancher, but he is a mega-welfare rancher who needs to be reined in. It isn't like he hasn't had twenty one years to comply with the laws that the majority of welfare ranchers sort of abide by (at least they get their damned cows off the range when they're supposed to even if they are running 25-80% more head than the allotment allows - and they pay their fees albeit less than they should be paying).

And yes, they are hurting more than one endangered species, cattle degrade springs and creeks and any place water is located which in turn destroys habitat which in turn depletes entire ecosystems via trophic collapse. Cattle are about the worst thing that has happened to the wild of the west next to humans. Watch this grapic example... http://www.westernwatersheds.org/

So this case is about how some welfare rancher has held the BLM at bay for decades, he has threatened violence in the recent past BTW, and the BLM finally got around to taking action and this is what happened.

Anyone calling for drones, I would think, would be for the drones to take out the damned cows... many of which are feral. So drones might be the answer to this problem and nobody but the cows will be targeted and that could end the whole mess in a matter of days. I'm not talking missiles or bombs just some gunfire would put down a bunch of feral cows and the predators and scavengers will take care of the remains thus feeding some wildlife.

I think this loud-mouthed toad should go to jail along with his ignorant spawn but that might be another day's task. For now, I would be happy to see the cattle off my property, this jerk has already shown he deserves no claim to the ownership of our collective property since he has no proper respect for the land, its owners' rules nor the environment, he has to go along with all his damned cows. His friends need to go home and learn to abide by our social contract or find some other place to be assholes.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:33 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

105. For the record, but that is because of the area we cover

(Chiefly rural), you are right.

This is how this will go down all over the back country and this is not a good signal to send. Unless some folks are arrested, and charges can be proven on conspiracy and incitement to violence, this is not good.

I expect the language of standing up to the feds and all that crap to increase.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:51 PM

ZombieHorde (29,047 posts)

116. I strongly disagree with you,

but I do like that you take insults well. You just call out the insult and leave it at that.

I look forward to arguing with you in the future.

Reply to this post

Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #116)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:55 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

118. I hate being right on this sort of shit, too.

But by looking at the far right sites, they are claiming a huge victory, are now going to push Issa to investigate this (you know he will), and are trying to figure out where next to use the armed terrorism approach.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:30 PM

politicman (710 posts)

134. if a black, Hispanic, Muslim Militia tried his, would it not have been forcefully ended?

Just a question for everyone:

If this whole thing was done by a black or Hispanic (or even worse, Muslim) Militia, do any of you seriously think that the Feds would not have gone and ended it with force?

I am not for bloodshed, but I am not for peaceful end to a solution when it only applies to white Militias.

Also, if the rule of law can be ignored by any armed group in a democratic nation, then doesn't that create a precedent for other armed Militias to attempt the same thing for their cause?

Lastly, if Black, Hispanic or Muslim group tries this stunt in future and it is ended forcefully, won't that show that colour of skin makes all the difference when it comes to whether violence is warranted.

Can none of you see the problems this solution could cause in future.

Reply to this post

Response to politicman (Reply #134)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:32 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

135. This has been my point all along

Wingnut sites are dancing gleefully over their "victory" in this and are plotting how to best use the armed terrorist threat in the future.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #135)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:40 PM

Moses2SandyKoufax (1,290 posts)

140. You can bet that they will use this tactic in the future.

I can see this happening at women's clinics, schools, political events/rallies, and seven months from now at various polling places around the country.

Reply to this post

Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #140)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:44 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

146. They're already plotting use of the armed terrorist tactic.

Meanwhile, many on the left are happy this ended without violence, ignoring the imapct it will have on EVERYTHING in the future.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #146)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:57 PM

Moses2SandyKoufax (1,290 posts)

156. Yeah well,

the flower children have pretty much neutered the lefty movement in this country. I can just picture the kvetching when the Jim-Bobs and KKKletus'es show up armed to harass people at voting precincts this November.

Reply to this post

Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #156)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:12 PM

BlindTiresias (1,563 posts)

160. Agreed

History seems to always repeat itself. This wouldn't be the first time that well intentioned liberals have let the far right do whatever it pleases in the interests of preserving peace while evil men plan for war.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #135)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:41 PM

politicman (710 posts)

141. I guess the lesson out of this is that any new OWS movements should arm themselves?

I guess the lesson for this for the next future OWS movement is to arm themselves and then go and camp out on federal land in the middle of New York.

I wonder would anyone of those that think this 'peaceful solution' (to this situation where armed Militias defied a law and won was the right thing) support a future OWS movement if they did this in the middle of New York to stop themselves from being peppered sprayed and arrested?

Reply to this post

Response to politicman (Reply #141)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:43 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

143. OWS would be slaughtered if they did.

This only works for wingnuts, progressives adn liberals need not attempt.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #143)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:46 PM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

147. "progressives adn liberals need not attempt."

The cities where OWS was abused the worst were the cities traditionally run by Democratic/progressive administrations, i.e. Oakland Denver, etc.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #143)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:51 PM

politicman (710 posts)

151. isnt that an indictment on how the feds let this armed group get their way

Isn't that an indictment on the whole situation then.

Because I can imagine how many groups out there right now are thinking that all they have to do is arm themselves and they will get their way.

Reply to this post

Response to politicman (Reply #151)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:53 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

153. It definitely is an indictment on the whole situation.

Here we are.

Reply to this post

Response to politicman (Reply #134)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:40 PM

JJChambers (1,115 posts)

139. Much of this militia WAS Hispanic. That was covered yesterday. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to JJChambers (Reply #139)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:43 PM

politicman (710 posts)

144. Ok the, if it was a Muslim Militia, would this have happened?

I never knew that.

But my point still stands.

And Ill make it even easier for you. If this was a Muslim Militia, what do you think would have happened?

Reply to this post

Response to politicman (Reply #144)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:23 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

163. Hell no. There wouldn't be an argument. Muslims would respect federal land law and would have

gotten the cattle off OUR land when our BLM asked them to, instead of trying to squat and cheat us out of our money. Muslims pay their bills. So much for your stereotyped hypothetical.

Reply to this post

Response to ancianita (Reply #163)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:39 PM

politicman (710 posts)

169. my hypothetical was to show the absurdity of letting this armed wing nut group..

get their way under the threats of violence.

I only used that hypothetical because Muslims are the latest public enemy it seems, and I wanted to show that if one armed group can stand in the way of a law being carried out and people on this forum support it, then how would they feel if it was a muslim militia doing the same thing.

Reply to this post

Response to politicman (Reply #169)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 09:42 PM

ancianita (33,737 posts)

170. Ah, sorry I missed the ironic note there. You're absolutely right; the sympathy here is misplaced.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:04 PM

DashOneBravo (2,679 posts)

177. Good job

I think they did a good job. They can arrest him later and with no blood shed.

If it means that much to you. Feel free to grab a weapon and ruck up.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:06 PM

Taitertots (7,745 posts)

179. Now that the government has capitulated to insurection, we better expect it everytime the RW doesn't

get it's way.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Name removed Message auto-removed

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:43 PM

AnalystInParadise (1,832 posts)

188. Yeah because

gunning down women and children makes much more sense. The BLM is playing the long game here, let the wackos go home after the weekend and then come up with a new plan.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:49 PM

villager (26,001 posts)

189. Only a couple hundred rightwing friends. If you're a Fred Hampton, say,

...they'll come gun you down in your bed, while claiming after the fact you were "violent."

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:52 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

195. Let me add this just for fun

since I bothered to go look it up

Sheriff Mack travels with other CSPOA members, Oathkeepers & State Legislators to stand with Nevada rancher against the BLM …
Many of you have called or emailed regarding the storm brewing between Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and the BLM. We all know how we feel about the all-too-frequent bullying of individual citizens by various Feds with their usurped, unconstitutional powers. It’s an epidemic that must be stopped.

Well, we want you to know we ARE doing something about it, and thankfully this time we’re not alone. Sheriff Mack is leaving early Saturday morning for an emergency trip to Bunkerville, Nevada, along with other members of the CSPOA posse (hopefully that’s some of you!) to stand vigil and find a peaceful resolution to this conflict (i.e., the feds going home).

State Senate President Andy Biggs and House of Reps Speaker Dave Livingston have both agreed that Arizona should be involved in supporting CSPOA and Oath Keepers in going to Bunkerville, NV to support the movement for freedom there with the Cliven Bundy family. State Senators Al Melvin, Chester Crandall, and Kelly Ward along with State Reps Brenda Barton, Bob Thorpe, Kelly Townsend and Warren Peterson are all planning to be at the Bundy ranch by Sunday morning. Furthermore, they all plan to attend the Press Conference Monday afternoon with the CSPOA and Oath Keepers along with the Bundys and other sheriffs and public officials from across the country.

http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/avn-bundy-ranch-update-sheriff-mack-oathkeepers-more/

I will just give you the tittle on this one

Militias Are On Route: Is the 2nd American Revolution Starting in Bunkerville, Nevada? -

See more at: http://www.thedailysheeple.com/militias-are-on-route-is-the-2nd-american-revolution-starting-in-bunkerville-nevada_042014#sthash.hkL8spKl.dpuf

http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/avn-bundy-ranch-update-sheriff-mack-oathkeepers-more/

It is pretty self explanatory.

There is a lot more of this crap out there. The sad part is that since I have followed this crap for DECADES now, I knew what they were saying before looking for you.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #195)

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:58 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

197. Welcome to the age of emboldened white wing nutbags waging an open shooting war.

Anybody who thinks the BLM backing down here is anything less than a complete disaster that will open the doors to the single most violent period in American history is only fooling themselves.

I say this as a person who originally met with this shit after being threatened by the Phineas Priesthood and having it followed up by the FBI back in 1996 because of things I posted on the internet.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #197)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 12:02 AM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

198. I know, you know, I stopped writing a novel involving militias

and a school shooting, (ironically I was writing that scene, and also wrote one with one of these boy scouts flying a plane into the Federal building, since done), the day a certain school shooting happened in Colorado. I was writing that, and I put that file on permanent ice. but those books I read in the 1980s are just as applicable right now (Rage Across the Plain comes to mind)

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #198)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 05:55 AM

maddezmom (135,060 posts)

201. ...

What haven't you done?

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 12:03 AM

AcertainLiz (863 posts)

199. Another reason guns need to be restricted.

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 05:51 AM

Lady Freedom Returns (14,119 posts)

200. OK, something tells me I missed something.

Can anyone fill me in???

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 08:51 AM

CFLDem (2,083 posts)

203. In Roberts America

guns are free speech!

Reply to this post

Response to MohRokTah (Original post)

Sun Apr 13, 2014, 10:04 AM

LynnTTT (362 posts)

204. I don't understand

Why the Hell did the put the cattle back? I sort of see why they stopped the round up, and are going to proceed thru courts etc
( which they have been doing for 20 years!!!). But why return the cattle?

Reply to this post

General Discussion (Forum)