Study: 43% of young men say they have been sexually coerced by women

[davidn3600]

A large proportion of teenage boys and college men report having been coerced into sex or sexual behavior, according to research published by the American Psychological Association.

A total of 43 percent of high school boys and young college men reported they had an unwanted sexual experience and of those, 95 percent said a female acquaintance was the aggressor, according to a study published online in the APA journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity.

"Sexual victimization continues to be a pervasive problem in the United States, but the victimization of men is rarely explored," said lead author Bryana H. French, PhD, of the University of Missouri. "Our findings can help lead to better prevention by identifying the various types of coercion that men face and by acknowledging women as perpetrators against men."

Of 284 U.S. high school and college students who responded to a survey about unwanted sexual encounters, 18 percent reported sexual coercion by physical force; 31 percent said they were verbally coerced; 26 percent described unwanted seduction by sexual behaviors; and 7 percent said they were compelled after being given alcohol or drugs, according to the study. Half of the students said they ended up having intercourse, 10 percent reported an attempt to have intercourse and 40 percent said the result was kissing or fondling.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140325113302.htm

Study can be found here...
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/men-a0035915.pdf

[dionysus]

1. why? you know what's about to happen. nt

[kelly1mm]

2. A thoughtful discussion of a scientific article that shows a pervasive social problem? Perhaps.

Or maybe not .......

[dionysus]

3. would be nice if true. i think everyone knows how these type of threads end up these days.

200+ posts of flame...

the article itself is moot, it's the inevitable flamefest I speak of.

[HubertHeaver]

7. The inferno hasn't erupted yet.

But then, the post is only about a half-hour old.

[Nye Bevan]

12. Yeah, why do people post stuff that is going to annoy some DUers?

People should stick to safe topics like "I hate the Kochs".

[closeupready]

51. +1. Frankly, I'm disgusted by that first post.

But it's predictable here on DU.

[dionysus]

60. be disgusted all you want. anyone who reads DU knows this leads to a flame war.

[closeupready]

61. Yes, I'm VERY disgusted at your attempt to silence this discussion.

[dionysus]

66. calm down there pal, i don't have the ability to "silence" anything on DU.

[Comrade Grumpy]

62. I hope not because this study isn't worth a flame war. It's about as reliable as an Internet poll.

"284 U.S. high school and college students who responded to a survey about unwanted sexual encounters."

[dionysus]

65. all i meant was, post any gender based OP on DU and watch it become a several hundred post flame war

DU hasn't had a good track record of rational discussion in this area. anything rape\porn\gender is like a live hand grenade these days, so you have to wonder if it wasn't posted just to start a shitstorm, considering how, as you said, the study looks pretty weak

[hfojvt]

95. aw hell, it wasn't even a random sample?

good catch there.

Junk numbers.

[Rex]

89. Guess this one flamed out.

A dud. No epic sub-threads.

[dionysus]

108. i know, my guess was wrong. usually there are epic trainwrecks of subthread!

[Rex]

110. I was surprised to see this thread with no epic sub-thread.

You are so correct, this topic usually ends up with people flinging poo at each other.

[dionysus]

68. i see it as a drive by post meant to piss off the HOF people.

[hfojvt]

88. excuse me, but I happen to find that annoying

since my name happens to BE Koch. And my family is known, among our friends and family as THE KOCHS.

Just FYI, I wish people would stop saying "the Kochs" (and also FYI my name, in my family is pronounced "cook" and NOT "coke".) or "Koch brothers" and say instead "Koch billionaires" or "the billionaire Kochs".

[Iggo]

59. Sure he knows.

And that's why.

[Bonobo]

4. Coerced envelopment? nt

[hfojvt]

5. I think their sample size is way too small

Especially when they break things down. They say 40% of Latinos reported sexual coercion. But 40% is only 12 guys out of a sample size of 31.

As a guy, I find the results very hard to believe. Plus your title is wrong. Only 41% were coerced by females (95% of the 43%) the other 2% were apparently coerced by males.

Then again, I don't really have much in the way of relationship experience.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i think there overall sample sizes were not too bad. effects sizes were small

i am going to re-read this in the morning.

i have a few questions about methodology, but am too tired to look it up now

[Logical]

6. Odd the usual suspects are ignoring this! nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. you know that it is the middle of the night, right? people may just be sleeping

it may not be nefarious conspiracy

[Logical]

9. The DU never sleeps! :-)

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

79. Third shift only handles emergency alerts

The bat signal goes up and everything.

[Ohio Joe]

97. I am far more fascinated by...

The sudden cries of oppression, harassment and even rape culture by the same group that has been denying it happens to women in any way that it is more then a trivial thing.

[NYC_SKP]

11. Unfortunately, 72% of the same group could not define the term "coerce".

I wish I was kidding.

[Larry the Cable Dude]

20. Does the article say that?

[cui bono]

75. Pretty much.

"31 percent said they were verbally coerced;"

"Examples of coercion included "My partner threatened to stop seeing me" for verbal;"

[Major Nikon]

80. How is this outside the definition?

[cui bono]

82. That is hardly coercion.

If someone gives you an ultimatum, don't take it. Well, a mild one like that. Let them leave. They're not worth your time. That is not forcing someone to have sex.

[Major Nikon]

85. coerce: to make (someone) do something by using force OR threats

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coerce

[cui bono]

86. That's not the sort of threat that forces you to do something though.

You don't do it and let them leave. Done.

It's not like they are threatening you with violence, or blackmailing you, they're saying if you don't do it I'll leave. So you just say no and they leave you. So what? Anyone who does that in a relationship is not worth having a relationship with.

[Major Nikon]

90. You could say the same thing about most who are in an abusive relationship

It's not always that easy. Often people rely on a mate for material or other support. The threat of breaking it off can be quite significant to some and while they may be better off as you suggest in the long term, short term decisions (which young people tend to emphasize) may not be so cut and dried.

[Scootaloo]

100. It's stil la form of coersion

In fact it is, whether or not you succumb. The person is trying to blackmail you into doing what they want you to do, by threatening something you value.

[ZombieHorde]

96. Have you never loved?

What a bizarre post. lol

[cui bono]

106. Right back atcha. n/t

[CFLDem]

29. I'm highly skeptical until evidence is presented otherwise.

[cui bono]

77. It's right in the article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4780211

[McDiggy]

13. I believe it.

When I was 6, my sister's best friend (12 y/o) got me to digitally penetrate her. I had no idea what I was doing. In fact, I didn't even remember it until a few years ago when something triggered some part of my brain, recalling the memory. At the time it was no big deal, because I didn't know any better at the time. But looking back...my god, WTF?

I also know 3 guys I went to college with that woke up after drinking heavily with women they had no intention of sleeping with. One of which we know for a fact that the woman was sober.

Men and boys are sexually abused by women all the time. Its just that its not considered a crime. The male "probably enjoyed it." I was sexually abused as a 6 year old and the one person I told about this tried to high five me like it was awesome. The abuser had a vagina, so it was obviously awesome.

[Dorian Gray]

21. Wow

I am so sorry that happened to you. And I'm sorry that you don't have someone to discuss this with who will actually accept it as a huge problem rather than give you high fives for it.

[mercuryblues]

117. sorry

that you experienced that.

That type response is based on the stereotypical idea that males are supposed to enjoy sex at any given time, with any female. A few here on this board even perpetuate the idea that males have a basic uncontrollable urge for sex. Then you have bill oreilly who suggested a 11 year old boy liked his circumstances. Despite the fact that he was kidnapped and raped over a 4 year period. <Cause you know, he didn't have to go to school and all. The high fiving on some sites when it is reported that a minor boy is molested by his female teacher, with remarks like" where was she when I was in middle school?" further embeds this idea into society's collective morals as acceptable behavior. Thankfully it is being exposed for what it is.

Again, I am sorry that you experienced sexual abuse as a child and then had your experience minimized as something you were supposed to enjoy.

[treestar]

14. A broad view of coercion

Which surely would be used to argue against women were they to claim it was coercion:

Examples of coercion included "My partner threatened to stop seeing me" for verbal; "My partner encouraged me to drink alcohol and then took advantage of me" for substance; "My partner threatened to use or did use a weapon" for physical; and "My partner has tried to interest me by sexually touching but I was not interested" for seduction. For additional information, researchers also asked participants to describe in writing a time they felt sexually coerced. The participants also responded to several commonly used psychological assessments to measure their psychological functioning, distress and risky behaviors.

[dsc]

17. I have literally never seen anyone on this site argue

that threatening to use or using a weapon wasn't coercion. I agree the my partner threatened to stop seeing me is absurd, and the other two may or may not be depending on exactly what they mean.

[KitSileya]

24. I remember a rather heated exchange I had on DU

..because I claimed that if you were pressured or guilted into having sex it wasn't freely given consent. Having sex with your partner because she or he nags so much it's easier to give in might not be everyone's view of rape, but it certainly isn't enthusiastic consent, and I cannot think but that it must damage the relationship at the very least.

Of course, many male DUers, both straight and gay, thought that was the most ridiculous thing they had ever heard, and that if their partners had sex with them like that it wasn't worse than doing the dishes when you didn't want to.

[dsc]

31. nice move of the goal posts

I said, and I quote, that I thought the notion of nagging as force was absurd, which is what I think it is. You can just say no. What I also said was, that I didn't think anyone had argued that USING A WEAPON OR THREATENING TO USE A WEAPON, wasn't force. That was also in that post.

[hfojvt]

94. nagging and threatening though

are coercion.

I got into a huge argument on a discussion list because I called it rape when a drug dealer got a heroin addict to have sex with him by withholding her drugs. (This was in the movie "Traffic&quot . I stand by that though - that is basically forced consent.

There are two questions though.

One is "where do you draw the line" or "where are the goalposts". Yes, it is coercion, but it is a fairly mild and fairly normal coercion. Coercion happens all the time in life, like being scolded to do the dishes or to take out the garbage.

Of course, when I was growing up, a certain amount of violence was normal too. Dad (or mom) tells you to mow the lawn, and you could get your butt beat if you don't do it. But those lines have been moved over the years.

The other question is - is there a double standard?

That is, if a guy used that type of coercion would it be considered acceptable? Or would he be villified?

[cui bono]

81. Right. And the verbal coercion accounts for 31%.

So that brings the number way down from 43%. But then the headline wouldn't make people read that article so... you know.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. Lover Boy and I were out with friends when the topic of

"if she's intoxicated she can't consent" was brought up. Without even taking his eyes off the lecturer he reached over and took my drink away.

[tkmorris]

113. Now that IS amusing

[hobbit709]

15. Oh boy!

[99Forever]

18. Uh huh...

... pass some my way.

[AverageJoe90]

16. Interesting, I guess.

[safeinOhio]

19. Once again

I was stuck in the 57%

[sendero]

22. I think it's likely..

..... that this is a more recent phenomenon.

On a related note, if a guy makes a pass at a woman and she turns him down, he is supposed to suck it up and move on. If a woman makes a pass at a man and HE turns it down, he can well expect to understand the meaning of "hell hath no fury...". And yes, this is from personal experience

My point being that double-standards between the genders are ubiquitous, but we are only supposed to notice half of them.

[Major Nikon]

42. I think it's just more of a recently noticed phenomenon

It doesn't sound much different than behavior I saw and experienced 30 years ago.

Men and women like to do the nasty and they have an inherent natural drive to do so. The idea that either sex isn't above employing coercive methods to get what they want isn't a good one. The differences appear in some of the methods employed. For example, if a man turns down sex, his masculinity may be questioned while the reverse isn't true for women.

[mercuryblues]

116. only a

woman's is. I have been called a lesbian more times than I can count for turning offers of sex by random men.

[Major Nikon]

118. I was thinking more along the lines of being accused of being impotent

Certainly women can be accused of being frigid, but it's not quite the same thing. Your example is going to translate to both sexes, but being called gay (especially from a woman) is going to be a bigger insult to a man than a woman being called a lesbian. Certainly other examples are going to disparately affect women.

[mercuryblues]

121. I get what

you are saying. But no. It is not a bigger insult to a man. There are a whole slew of names women are called when they refuse to stop drop and roll on demand. Any words used as a way to demean and hurt a person are hurtful, no matter what the sex of the person is.

[Demo_Chris]

23. Several times. And in one way it's tougher on guys as we have to perform...

None of that 'Close your eyes and think of England' stuff for men. Despite this, I was never more than temporarily bothered. The reason, I suspect, is that men and boys are overall socially ELEVATED by sexual activity while girls often experience the opposite. Boys who have sex are conquerors, girls who have sex are conquered. One is exalted, the other debased. Frankly, it's a sickening? twisted perversion, it's EVIL what we do to girls in the name of 'Christian Values,' but there it is.

[NickB79]

26. I can relate

In college I knew a woman who was prone to severe depression, self-cutting, drug use, etc. One night we had friends over, and everyone went to bed or home except the two of us. When I implied it was time for me to get some sleep, she started talking about suicide. This scared the hell out of me, so I told her she could crash in my room. As I was drifting off to sleep I feel her start to grope me. When I asked her to stop she again started talking about her loneliness and how she should kill herself.

I ended up having sex with her even though I didn't want to. I wasn't even able to orgasm, but it was good enough for her.

The next day I barely got through my first class before I had a panic attack and ran to the campus counseling center where I broke down in tears to the first free counselor available.

[CFLDem]

27. I had a crazy chick who would grope me on the schoolbus

even though she knew I had a gf. Some chicks are just freaking nuts!

It was not wanted and I made that very clear by turning up my crazy dial a bit.

Quite frankly rape culture doesn't care about gender.

[WinkyDink]

41. 18%, though?

[pintobean]

50. .

[Marr]

64. I don't understand the weight comment.

Not snark, I genuinely don't understand. Can you elaborate?

[CFLDem]

70. Unfortunately I cannot articulate the point

politically correct enough without fully enraging the Hoff.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Marr]

71. Ah, no need.

I think I got your meaning from a follow up post below. It makes sense.

[AngryAmish]

73. .

[Comrade Grumpy]

109. Stop that!

[Nye Bevan]

28. "No" means "no". And don't just get "consent", get *enthusiastic* consent (nt)

[WinkyDink]

30. "Physical force"? Yeah, I'm still pondering that claim.

[CFLDem]

32. Small guy, big woman

It happens as in my case the big boned rapist had at least 100 pounds on me.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

39. The study's creators -

used this as the example of physical coercion: "My partner threatened to use or did use a weapon." I find that kind of bizarre that a full 18% claimed that. I wonder if some chains were being yanked, because you know a teenage boy would never this something like that would be funny to do.

[closeupready]

54. 30 year old teacher, 13 year old boy.

[Niceguy1]

33. well women do get men to do..

All kinds of things in order to get sex....

[CFLDem]

35. Like what?

[chrisa]

44. Not in a healthy relationship

[closeupready]

55. Part of why I'm glad I'm gay.

[MindPilot]

36. A junior high classmate would call me and talk dirty.

A couple years later I would have thought it pretty exciting, but at the time it was a bit creepy. The last thing a young teenage boy wants to do is ask his dad to screen his calls, so I would just put down the phone and let her talk. One time I was gone for 20 minutes, I came back and she was still talking!

[badtoworse]

37. Were they bragging about it or complaining about it?

"She couldn't keep her hands off me" was something I would hear a guy say once in a while, but it never seemed to happen to me.

[ananda]

38. hmm...

Rape ... all too common in an oppressive society where everyone
who has ever been oppressed wants to take a position of power
over another.

I do hold to the view that rape is about power and not sexual pleasure.
It is a crime against the body and mind of another, and it's very effective
at screwing people up bigtime.

Whenever a victim feels pleasure while being raped, this can result in
huge guilt and sometimes denial which can also result in the person
becoming a rapist later on.

My view is that just about anyone who becomes a rapist has been raped
themselves in some form or fashion. That doesn't make it right, but it
does make it understandable.

Here's where it gets complicated. As a whole, boys are raised to be
oppressors, and women are raised to be oppressed; so generally women
are the victims of rape.

However, in order to take on oppressor roles, boys have to be brutally
oppressed first... and this oppression can take the form of rape. Also,
oppressed girls can sometimes take on male aggression because it gives
them a feeling of power. So yes, girls/women can be sexually aggressive towards
boys/men.

But, since the oppression of women is at the heart of this oppressive society/
economy, I would automatically question ANY article that seeks to show women
as rapists according to a so=called "study." Not that it never happens, just that
it tends to obscure the fact that women and girls are currently being attacked
and demonized in a horrifically persistent and increasingly escalated way these
days.

The only answer to this problem is to end oppression.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

74. ^

[Jackpine Radical]

91. Ananda, I think you are very much on target.

[Nine]

40. I have no doubt this happens, and it's wrong.

The exact numbers aren't as important to me. I have no idea why this article should have people eating popcorn. Also, I see a couple instances of "high-fiving" right on this thread, and I find that troublesome.

[Major Nikon]

43. Gender topics touch emotional buttons for many

Which generally means that gender topics in GD eventually dissolve into 200+ post count shit throwing contests, thus the popcorn comments.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

47. "Gender topics touch emotional buttons for many"

Bad touch! Bad touch!

[Major Nikon]

49. ...

[closeupready]

56. Wish they had been raped? What if she transmitted sexual diseases to him?

Or became pregnant? Still think they'd wish they'd been raped?

[CFLDem]

58. ^^^RAPE CULTURE^^^

Disgusting

[Zorra]

52. First of all, how were these boys, or men, dressed? It appears that they "wanted it", and were just

asking for it!


No means no. Most women learn how to deal with unwanted sexual advances relatively effectively at an early age; many of us have long standing "scripts", rejection lines for different situations, for dealing with them. Most of us have other devices we use, some instinctive, for dealing with assertive, or aggressive, undesired sexual advances as well.

It appears that males may want to start learning techniques to deal with unwanted, assertive sexual advances also, and gathering information on how to deal with possible predators.

[Comrade Grumpy]

57. Is this a study with a self-selected sample? Like an Internet poll?

Because I otherwise find it pretty unbelievable.

[seabeyond]

63. you men make it so easy, in the arguin'. we have a host from mens group calling out hof

other men taunting women saying, .... ya ya??? whatta 'bout it.

jokes.... about rape. really? hot button? ya. loverboy too cute. i bet we would have all had a chuckle.

and a man declaring 57% is yellin', me too me too.

one man who proclaims professional women should maintain femininity at all cost by wearing summer dresses as their professional work clothes, as he is letting us all know about the rape culture and his rape??? (not clear, attempted rape???)

this thread cfl is another example of the rape culture.

everything that is being done in this thread to diminish and dismiss what we talk about with women, boys and girls on du.

now...

there really is nothing to see here. we can all move along

there could have been a serious discussion, .... but the purpose seems to be a show.

i am taking mopinko up on here suggestions. (actuallly, i only read the title of mopinko's Op. that works for me. the rest?)



peace out.

[closeupready]

84. And we smugly tell ourselves rap music about pimping and whoring is offensive.

Know what I mean?

[pnwmom]

67. Considering the definitions, I'm surprised the answer wasn't 100%.

Who hasn't had this example of "unwanted experience of seduction" at least once:

"My partner has tried to interest me by sexually touching but I was not interested"

[davidn3600]

103. Yeah but these are the same questions that the same type of studies ask women

Has a man ever forced a kiss on you that you didnt want?
Has a man ever touched you but you were not interested?
etc, etc...

How the heck do you think they arrived at that "1 in 4 women are raped" statistic? Those are the questions that are asked.

Why is it that when we ask these questions to men that we suddenly start to question the methodology?

[pnwmom]

111. "forced a kiss on you that you didn't want" isn't the same thing.

The statement in this study didn't suggest force.

"My partner has tried to interest me by sexually touching but I was not interested"

No study of rape that I've seen has ever included that statement as a definition of rape, so that is NOT why 1 in 4 women report having been raped. If that statement were included, as I said before, almost all women -- almost all men -- would respond positively.

[etherealtruth]

114. that struck me as well ...?

Rape and coercion are very serious regardless of the gender of the victim or the perpetrator.

A partner seducing you or trying to interest you in sex is NOT rape ... it is NOT assault ... it is NOT coercion.

.... but, I am sure the poster understood that when s/he posted

[riderinthestorm]

107. I thought that too. Someone else mentioned the skewed questions upthread

But that point is getting drowned out. Thought I'd highlight your response and maybe folks will actually look at the details of the study

[Marr]

69. Something like this happened to me when I was 17.

I had a female boss who made all kinds of unwanted sexual advances, including groping. I could not have been less interested in this woman and made it clear, but she kept doing it until I eventually left for college. I didn't know what to do about it, and the only time I mentioned it to a friend their response was something along the lines of 'lucky you'. I'll bet it happens more than people think.

[Warpy]

72. Can we all say "BOGUS" together?

The sample size was too small and the whole thing poorly designed.

I'm sure young males feel pressured, but it's mostly from their own libidos overriding their good sense when it comes to choosing a partner.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

76. Wow, what an interesting statement....

Tell me, do you think young women often override their "good sense" too when it comes to choosing a partner? And for what reasons?

[Major Nikon]

83. Sounds quite a bit like victim blaming

In fact, it sounds exactly like victim blaming.

[Warpy]

93. The difference is a cultural one, boys are not supposed to be able to control their libidos

and the larger culture says men mostly follow their dicks around. This is unfair.

You know, "boys will be boys." It's entitlement but doesn't say anything good about their characters.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

122. I still don't understand one thing you are trying to say....

....a boy should know to stay away from aggressive girls or something by not following his penis?

Seriously, what you wrote was complete word salad.

[1000words]

87. Blaming the victim is frowned upon when it's women

Let's address this issue with equality.

[dilby]

99. Happened to me in College.

I had a boss that would have me go out with her on nights her husband was out of town. She was in her mid 40's and she did this to several of the men at my place of work, all of us college age, all of us needing a job. I would not say it was rape because I could have said no, but she made it clear a no was a loss of a job that paid really well.

[Warpy]

104. Well, Mrs. Robinson is a different phenomenon

I'm sorry you went through that, call it what it is: rape. The implicit violence was the loss of your livelihood. She belongs in prison but rape shames the victims so profoundly that it's unlikely to happen.

What I'm really objecting to are the size of the study and the percentage of males who said they felt pushed. While I know it happens, the conclusion of that high a percentage can't be drawn from that small a sample.

[Vashta Nerada]

78. Sexual coercion, no matter what gender does it, is wrong.

There are some ugly responses in this thread.

[blueamy66]

92. verbally coerced?

don't believe it

[ProfessorGAC]

98. This Requires Massive Corroboration

Multiple studies, multiple sampling protocols, and consistency of analysis is needed before i accept these findings.

I was a young guy too once, and so were all my friends. I think the definitions may be too convenient by half and now it's possible to answer yes to any question about coercion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

101. the only real prob i have with this study is i would like to see a sex comparison

for the exact same definitions of coercion.

i do believe boys are coerced. that is not something i think is even up for debate.

[salin]

112. I agree with your last point,

and would add, as one who works with adolescent young ladies - on the whole they are much more aggressive (in pursuit of the boys of their current attraction) today than they were several decades ago. It (aggressiveness) is a flip side of a very good thing, many younger women are more confident and self-assured. I also work with adolescent boys, who are at times overwhelmed by the girls. While i am not talking about coercion in the sense of the study, it is not hard for be to believe the extension of that behavior in sexual interactions.

I would be most interested in teasing apart the different types of coercion lumped together. Separate the verbal (emotional) coercion from the physical threat coercion. The latter, if indeed common, is a very serious problem.

[Lex]

102. Did the study ask how many knew what the word "coerced" means?

[LeftyMom]

105. FYI: the LOWEST analogous statistic I can find for women is 52% and the highest is 75%.

We also know that 91% of rape victims are women, and 99% of rapists (of either male or female victims) are male.

The OP is arguing in bad faith to support his agenda, as usual.

[idendoit]

115. Read the Limitations and Future Research section.

'Although our results are statistically significant, the effect sizes were small and as a cross-sectional study, we cannot make inferences about causal effects.' Which is usually research-ese for maybe.

[Behind the Aegis]

119. It was comedy fodder on Bill Mahr.

It was interesting watching the parsing that took place in the thread, unsurprising, but interesting nonetheless.