General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo let's see here. A 5-4 SCOTUS decision split exactly on party lines.
And the response from usual suspects is that the two parties are essentially no different? That it's not really about "red versus blue"? That it's "wall street party" versus the "CEO party". Whaaaaaa?
BeyondGeography
(39,346 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Maybe he'll join this one.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)Funny, that.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)MineralMan
(146,254 posts)my posts. I found it interesting that he self-deleted that one, though. I guess the writing on the board seemed like the writing on the wall to him. Good decision, I'm pretty sure, and one that probably should be noticed by some other DUers.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Is that what drove you to cuss?
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)From time to time, he deigns to reply to me, but never in any substantial way.
I cuss rarely. When I do, though, it comes from the heart.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He may as well have said "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here." That wasn't even a subtle effort.
They're winning. No matter what we do, they win...and we can't stop it.
Good thing the POTUS doesn't listen to that kind of talk. We wouldn't have the ACA if he did.
I suppose POTUS should just give up his efforts to raise the minimum wage, too, because "they're winning," or whatever.
I think some serious shark got jumped with those comments.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)finally got it that he had stepped a little too far over the line, so he killed the thread by self-deleting. He won't go away, though, and will be back spreading FUD and negativity again very soon.
It's tiresome, but I try to comment in each of those threads.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)MineralMan
(146,254 posts)For pete's sake. We do not know who our Manny Goldstein is, though. At least I don't. Maybe some people do know. I don't care.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)If I see real bullshit, I'm gonna get a screen capture and I urge others to do the same. That way, there will be none of that "What, who, me?" naive posturing when people spreading FUD are called on their crap. "I never said that!!" Oh, really?
I liken this kind of aiding and abetting to behaving like the little kids in the Shake and Bake commercials....except in this case, Granny makes up a nice big plate of Phony Republican Fried Chicken, and these little FUDders pass it around to all and sundry....bottom line is, even when they aren't the authors of the FUD, they are still responsible for giving it legs--they can't play both ends when they stand beside "GOP Granny" and all that fake fried chicken, and proudly proclaim "An' ah hepped!"
I'm with you on GOTV all the way. We need to make our OWN Shake and Bake, and help elect/re-elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to public office.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Anyplace, I and most of the rest of us don't care. I read that crap and could not believe someone would post that here. Sometimes you do OK, but really, I've never seen you contribute actual information to anything.
You're an egotist with no actual redeeming social qualities. You need to leave.
Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #78)
Post removed
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)He made it to my ignore list. I'm at the point where I've figured out this place attracts a lot of anti-social folks who have no interest in actually making things better, only in their own egos.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Again, I'm with you completely. I've learned that too. There are alot of people here that are either so bored, lonely or pathological that they squat on this web site, shit on everything that makes people happy and even remotely involves making progress, and stoke doom and gloom. All we can do is just take comfort that DU seems to be the only place in the world outside of their living rooms where they have large enough numbers to drown out everyone else.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You find them in the positive posts, in the state groups, and in the politicians' groups.
The few incessant gripers and Debbie Downers have a signal-to-noise ratio that is way outta whack.
I am not an advocate of censorship, but I do think that if criticism is not smart or constructive, it's worthless. Swearing, pouting or acting like an ass doesn't enhance any post writer's reputation and it doesn't build community here. It's just pissing in someone else's Cheerios, and it's meanspirited.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Or you'll be next on the alert roster for making an indirect reference.
Watched them nail you just that way bigger than shit. Still shaking my head over that one.
You are too freaking awesome.
After seeing how pissed of MADem was upthread, I went and had a little looky loo to see what all the fuss was about. That OP was classic, not for its content but for the responses.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Mail Message
On Wed Apr 2, 2014, 08:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Edit before it gets hidden!! The flying monkeys won't abide insults against their king!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4771921
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
That's an ugly attack on fellow DU members.
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 2, 2014, 09:02 PM, and the Jury voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not a personal attack, though.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yeah this isn't the place forthis kind of post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree with the edit advice and disagree with the flying monkeys/king portion, but it made me laugh. As an insult, it's pretty mild. I can't see gigging her 20 points for it; I want #23 available to judge my posts. She seems like a very fair person.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This whole thread is probably keeping the juries busy. Ugh.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: flying monkeys? I'm tired of the insults on both sides and will elect to hide any time I am on a jury. It's just plain rude and not appropriate.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Self-satisfied.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Vindictive to the bitter end.
Did I call it, or what?
MADem
(135,425 posts)I suppose it's a good thing that the admins are all seeing. Can't understand why anyone would be mad about that post ... unless they were, in actual fact, a flying monkey?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Very sensitive feelings, it seems. Maybe we need a flying monkeys group.
MADem
(135,425 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)the expressions on their faces seemed to fit, too.
Here's one that I saw on Facebook this morning that made me laugh.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think the pug's 'shirt' is photoshopped, but that is an hilarious pic!
MADem
(135,425 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Could have a cached version.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Surprised he deleted it. My reply would have been something like: we're winning, gay marriage, marijuana, dadt, aca, etc. Then go on about how they are trying to steal our wins.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)I had to get going, so I figured my comment wasn't that important. There were enough people letting him know the OP was scorned.
I got particularly clear opportunity on what to make of his persona when I saw him bend over backwards to post an apology for having posted something that was possibly racist-- Yet he posted a blatantly sexist OP mocking women who mention the negative aspects of the sexualization of women, and dismissed any women replying with their thoughts on the matter.
I particularly resent that he responded to my comment with further insults. It appeared his intent was to uphold his arrogance and demoralize me and women in general.
I got no use for that crap.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If it makes DU suck, we gotta say so.
Enough!
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)sexism on DU has been a struggle too. Alerting, notifying MIRT, messages to the Admins.....there are some things that haven't become clear enough to a large enough majority, so that people can use words cleverly and avoid getting the boot.
But, I do see more people here taking a stand against sexism.....maybe it's about a change of heart among more people, rather than focusing only on attempts to control asshattery by outside means?
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think the admins get that and they've tossed a few troublemakers over the side. And I think it's a combination of people waking up and smelling the coffee, and troublemakers getting bold and mistakenly thinking they can get away with smart remarks. People do tend to not want to think badly of someone who has been here awhile, especially if they don't KNOW the person very well or interact with them ordinarily, but if they sit on two or three juries with the same complaint about the same person, even those who aren't paying attention, who don't visit certain groups, who avoid certain turfs and fights, will start to see what's happening. Then the boom gets lowered.
People can play the "cute" game for awhile, sometimes for a long while, but time is never on their side. With enough posts, a pattern becomes clear.
Also, people should be aware that the admins DO see the alerts, and they see the jury results. Observations by jurors are read by the admins along with the alerts themselves.
And yeah, stuff is often never easy...but a good fight is a worthy fight, ya?
Cha
(296,836 posts)I know sees that pathetic whining for what it is.
MADem
(135,425 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Manny hates when Manny whines. Manny would rather fight than whine.
So Manny make thread go bye-bye.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Because the shark can't communicate with us.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)Sincerely,
Backpedaling-way MineralManny
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Cha
(296,836 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Cha
(296,836 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Cha
(296,836 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)unfortunately.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)election to suppress.
"Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side".
When will "enough be enough"?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)Koch brothers are now using their money to influence a small town election in Wisconsin. We cannot win the top and lose the local elections. This is the year to get in touch of our local party leaders and see what we can do and then follow through to the House and Senate.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)Libertarian wet dream of states' rights is playing itself out all over the country. And meanwhile, we've got internet folks (supposedly on the left) who are solely focused on the White House, and every perceived impurity of the Obama administration. When do we stop working against one another?
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,546 posts)and it's true,
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)He was the ultimate politician--a savvy pragmatist.
People don't realize or remember that the GOP excoriated him mercilessly; he didn't let it get to him, though--he knew how to play the game better than they ever could.
People all over the internet bashing Obama from the left could very well be --and likely are--Left-Teas. You can tell if they'll criticize anything and everything about Obama, down to his choice of tie. Nothing is ever "good enough."
When anyone challenges them, they take an approach that "dissent" is patriotic, but they're rabid and unrelenting in their criticism, to the point where they are obvious and their gripes are, well, stupid. They just can't get out of attack mode. It's a visceral thing with them. And it is, as the kids like to say, a "tell."
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)This used to be a helluva site for real grassroots Democratic activism. Even the state forums were active. "Holding his feet to the fire" now includes calling him names that we can't even call each other. Go figure that one out.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I agree with you about the state forums, too--I put stuff up in mine on occasion, and just get responses from the few die-hards...whereas in DUs past, those groups used to be jumping.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Its not productive....we have midterms....
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)Chathamization
(1,638 posts)participating in the threads that discuss how we get it now.
"Hey, here's how you can get involved with others who are making single-payer happen at the state level."
"Shutup, I want to talk about how we didn't get it four years ago again."
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)folks. It's like a yoke around the neck, and reeks of a divide & conquer strategy on the part of the complainants. When you talk about a Dem majority to help this president get a more progressive agenda, you're met with lies about him having a majority for two years, when in reality, we had a majority for like 72 days.
IMHO, they aren't the ones we need to be trying to reach. They're a lost cause AFAIC. There's plenty of fertile ground in the folks who either don't vote, or only vote in presidential years. There are plenty of younger voters who don't yet realize that what happens in off year elections directly affects what happens with the pocketbook issues they complain about.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)To do that WE have to act like the WINNERS we are...we should be dismissing all notions from anyone, of us being anything else but!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)off year elections. This mindset is widespread, and it's dangerous. I tell folks, you don't get to bitch if you don't participate, I'm not interested.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)that it is IMPORTANT for them to go vote...YOU WON'T do that by being "Democrats" flogging Democrats!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)You know what I mean?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)wolves in sheeps clothing...trojan horses.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)to be done with 'em.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Small town local in the early 1980s. School board here, town council there. drip, drip, drip. Like a cancer.
And I have had cancer. The only way to get rid of it is to GET RID OF IT.. and even then, one never knows for sure.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)and the patience to infect our system of government from end to end.
BainsBane
(53,012 posts)I'd have gone with someone further South.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Two were confirmed by a 98-0 and 97-0 votes.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Why attack today's Dems for something that happened about 30 years ago.
Oh wait ... nevermind.
Tell me, do we think Al Gore would have nominated Roberts or Alito?
Did having folks vote for Nader help us in any way?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)But keep bringing that one up with anyone that isn't a cheerleader.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Every vote for Gore was a vote to prevent Bush from getting to select SCOTUS nominees.
Can't say the same about a vote for Nader.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)On Planet Bozone it may actually come true.
But that seems to be the answer you give every time.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)But I don't live on the range.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)And what, stay home?
Vote for 3rd party candidates?
What's your plan?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)that's the standard reply by the cheerleaders.
I haven't missed an election yet even if I had to hold my nose and carry a barf bag.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I encourage them to vote for the Dems ... to both advance policy, and also prevent the GOP from getting sufficient hold of our government to screw it up.
If you are confused as to why I asked ... that's is ... DU has plenty of disgruntled folks who will sit out elections.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Sorry to interrupt this exchange, but I seriously doubt the veracity of the claim highlighted above. Political junkies vote, and the vast majority of the people who post on DU are political junkies (whether they admit it or not) compared to the average American voter.
-Laelth
MADem
(135,425 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)SCOTUS appointments are a presidential privilege.
Democrats understand "doing governing" unlike Repubs who exist to tear it down.
Yes, elections are THAT important.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)If I had a nickel for every time Naderites in 1999-2000 told me that "Democrats are the same as Republicans", I'd have enough money to own stock holdings almost as large as Ralph Nader.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,739 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)leftstreet
(36,098 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)I know that reality is a troubling concept for some here, but if it wasn't Scalia and Kennedy, it would have been two other right-wing judges. The problem was that Reagan was president, not that every single Democrat in the 80s was some kind of right-wing sellout.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)That Dems in the 80s made a mistake in deferring to senate tradition? OK. Maybe. The relevance?
MADem
(135,425 posts)In fact, that little fucker (and pardon my French) was the namesake of the term "Borking."
So would Harriet Myers!
Sometimes, the President gets the SCOTUS nominees that can pass the gauntlet--not the ones they necessarily want.
That said, I do agree with your essential point-- that wingnut Presidents are going to nominate wingnut justices--they're just going to pick ones that can fly under the radar, who can provide "non-responsive responses" to tricky questions, or who can outright lie without blushing furiously, and who will say what the Senate wants to hear. I mean, after all, Dumbya didn't say, "Gee, I couldn't squish mah best gal Harriet through that meat grinder, let me look at my short list and pick someone who's been working for the Southern Poverty Law Center as an alternative!"
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)It will drive you nuts. Let it be. No one is fooled by that stuff.
Anansi1171
(793 posts)I believe 2014 will determine 2016. Austerity will a huge burden for many Americans as Ryan class warfare kicks into high gear.
Here's a brief look at what the Republicans are after and what they intend for most of us:
leftstreet
(36,098 posts)Obama came into office with more political capital than any other President in our lifetimes. That he could leave that office losing the House and the Senate, boggles the mind
What happened?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Your concern is noted.
Truly.
leftstreet
(36,098 posts)no one ever reads what I say
Anansi1171
(793 posts)Rick Santelli on CNBC literally christens the Tea Party?
While Occupy is vilified and dismantled.
The Obama presidency, if it ends in such spectacular failure that all is lost by 2016, should demonstrate to progressives that the state is far too corrupt to be changed from within.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The difference between the teabaggers and Occupy was that as venal as the baggers are, they realized how to get things done - they got their people elected and that change is coming from within. If Occupy had channeled their incredibly good message with leaders who knew how to get things done, they would have been heroes.
Anansi1171
(793 posts)And indicates a promising but immature movement.
But whether art thou millennials now?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and planning on voting every single election day for the rest of their lives. I wish they had been more successful with their message - it was a winning message but very few in Washington had any reason to take it seriously.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)totodeinhere
(13,056 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)leftstreet
(36,098 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Response to Anansi1171 (Reply #30)
frylock This message was self-deleted by its author.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I mean for the 99%, that is?
For anything involving cash for the 1%?
Even when we win, we lose?
Would this be a sign of roaring success on the part of our elected Democrats?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It's very easy to construct a frame where everything always gets worse. All you have to do is ignore any good thing that happens.
You do an excellent job at that, btw.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)that involves economics and the 99%?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and 100% of them have no lifetime caps....no copays or deductibles for diagnostics and vaccinations....no pre-existing conditions....kids stay on parents insurance until 26....out of pockets capped at about 6 grand. ....next year Rx counts for your Out Of Pocket....fixed the donut hole in Senior Rx coverage....
Oh and lets not forget...Lily Ledbetter and the end of DADT and eliminated the "exempted status" for many employees....
Etc. Etc. Etc...(I am sure I have left some out)
but nothing has improved right?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)compared to when President Obama took office?
To be clear - ACA is better than nothing.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)For example, the healthcare system in the US just got a lot better. But I share your frustrations with economic inequality.
Here's the thing. Right now, while you and I are arguing here on the internet, President Obama is going around advocating for an increase in the minimum wage. By executive action, he has already raised the minimum wage for federal workers and contractors. But he can't raise the legal minimum wage for everyone without a congressional vote.
So my question for you is: if Obama is really some corporate apologist president for the 1%, why on earth is he going around advocating for an increase in the minimum wage? Does he not understand that this will increase labor costs and cut into profits and potentially reduce CEO bonuses while directing more money to workers?
And if he somehow manages, against all odds, to get the minimum wage increase through congress, will that count as something getting better? And if he fails, will you lay the blame with the GOP congress who blocked it, or is it somehow both parties' fault even though one of them is for it and the other against it?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)The point I see people making is that we should be voting for those who are not pro-corporate tools into the Democratic Party. Just voting for anyone with a "D" next to their name ensures nothing. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Or is it that you want pro-corporate Dems instead of progressive liberals ones, or think it doesn't matter?
If you vote for a pro-corporate Dem, do you truthfully expect them to support progressive or liberal policies or vote in favor of Supreme Court judges who aren't pro-corporate themselves?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)550 folks who voted Nader to instead have voted for Gore.
Your usual rhetoric is completely overwhelmed by today's evidence.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)People saying things exactly like what you posted were trying to convince me to vote Nader instead of Gore. If you were old enough, I am sure they were approaching you too.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)...and wasn't interested in any party except for the Democratic Party. I knew at the time the only thing standing in between the White House and the GOP was the Democratic Party. I am old enough, but I don't assume every DUer saying "just voting for any "D" is not going to mean much in the end. I think supporting and voting for candidates with an informed mind is important if one wants representation of their values, and saying this just makes the party stronger in the long-run,but that's my pov, which is liberal.
frylock
(34,825 posts)there, I fixed it for you.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Vote out the corporate dems in the primaries. If they're the ones left standing, vote for them in November. And then vote against them in the next primary. Repeat until they've been removed.
It's how the Republicans were dragged to insanity. We can easily do the same to drag the Democrats to the left.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)and trust me, the Democratic candidate gets my vote every election. The concern is for blindly voting for any candidate that has a "D"next to their names expecting them to represent your values. It's an important point.
Well, that's what I'm going to do.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)is for Democrats. Skinner didn't specify, but until & unless the TOS changes to "fascisthunter approved Democrats", we'll forego your self declared purity standards.
Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Boomerproud
(7,940 posts)I will be shocked if it is not the same result come mid-summer. We have been/are being screwed.
frylock
(34,825 posts)do you want blood? is that what you want?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)but some votes for Dems count more.
frylock
(34,825 posts)then your vote somehow doesn't count.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Someone writes a post that doesnt show proper reverence to the Pres, and "The Team" responses with dozens of self-righteous "We Love Obama irregardless of whatever he should do" posts.
We have an important election coming up. Someone has to be the bigger person.