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DanTex

(20,709 posts)
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 01:59 PM Apr 2014

So let's see here. A 5-4 SCOTUS decision split exactly on party lines.

And the response from usual suspects is that the two parties are essentially no different? That it's not really about "red versus blue"? That it's "wall street party" versus the "CEO party". Whaaaaaa?

148 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So let's see here. A 5-4 SCOTUS decision split exactly on party lines. (Original Post) DanTex Apr 2014 OP
My primary conclusion is that misery loves misery BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #1
I'm sorry Manny didn't respond to you in his thread Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #2
Manny self-deleted his thread. MineralMan Apr 2014 #22
I'm sorry he didn't respond to you eaither Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #25
Yah, but Manny never really responds to MineralMan Apr 2014 #26
Maybe he has you on ignore Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #27
No, he doesn't have me on ignore. MineralMan Apr 2014 #28
That one was particularly OTT. MADem Apr 2014 #33
I thought so, too. Apparently Manny, or whatever his name is, MineralMan Apr 2014 #38
You do get that it's a Nineteen Eighty-Four reference, right? Electric Monk Apr 2014 #40
Yes, of course. Hasn't everyone read that? MineralMan Apr 2014 #41
"Maybe some people do know. I don't care." Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #61
I'm not putting up with it anymore. MADem Apr 2014 #42
Good for you, and you have my thanks! MineralMan Apr 2014 #43
Go get 'em, sport. nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #57
You need to go someplace else. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #78
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #94
Like I care. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #99
I'm with you 100% but don't let this one be the reason you get a post hidden. Number23 Apr 2014 #107
There are a LOT of good people here. MADem Apr 2014 #111
Careful Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #125
... Number23 Apr 2014 #128
Shaking my head. Jury results. pintobean Apr 2014 #129
Shame Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #130
*gasp* pintobean Apr 2014 #131
(c) infringement Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #132
Lol. Fair use pintobean Apr 2014 #133
Feel better now? Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #135
Better? No Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #136
Rephrase Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #138
No Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #139
Unbelievable Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #134
Certainly not DU's finest hour. MADem Apr 2014 #143
Flying monkeys have feelings, too pintobean Apr 2014 #144
I am not normally a fan of dog clothing, but those are flat-out hilarious! nt MADem Apr 2014 #145
Same here. pintobean Apr 2014 #146
A relative with a pug wants to do that "for real!" MADem Apr 2014 #147
Already have. nt MADem Apr 2014 #96
MADem, that one is the master, the Emperor of the "who me?" guise Number23 Apr 2014 #93
Google the title. joshcryer Apr 2014 #95
Yup... SidDithers Apr 2014 #122
Not that bad. joshcryer Apr 2014 #124
I tried to comment on a recent one of his...and then my mobile wouldn't send. BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2014 #52
Time we did a little "get up, stand up" and just not put up with it anymore. MADem Apr 2014 #97
I agree, but how... BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2014 #120
Sexism is NEVER OK. MADem Apr 2014 #140
It's the Dead Enders on Endless Parade. It's a damn good thing anyone Cha Apr 2014 #102
What will the next gripe be? MADem Apr 2014 #105
Manny got disgusted by Manny's defeatism MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #55
Have you lost your precious? DCBob Apr 2014 #63
Jump-the-Shark-Manny? joshcryer Apr 2014 #98
Do not ask for whom the shark jumps MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #104
Whatever you say, Manny... MineralMan Apr 2014 #116
Third Person Manny? Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #142
Nobody that I know gives a fuck. Cha Apr 2014 #101
You're tough Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #108
Yeah, the facts are tough. Cha Apr 2014 #117
Nobody you know gives a fuck about facts Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #118
Deal with it. Cha Apr 2014 #119
We all are Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #121
Democrats had a win yesterday. Expect increased demonization from the usuals. They have an..... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #3
Damn, that's right on point! Perfectly illustrated! Well done, you! Wish I could rec your post! nt MADem Apr 2014 #4
I wish it weren't, but there's no other explanation. nt Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #31
And that has to start with the local level. On Ed last night he was talking about how and why the jwirr Apr 2014 #5
"All politics are local". I forget who said it, but it's never been more true than today. The.... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #10
Tip O'Neil said that Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2014 #20
I should've known. He was a helluva legislator, and apparently a soothsayer as well. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #29
Mah man Tip! Friend to all, including a geezer or two in my family! MADem Apr 2014 #36
One good way to spot 'em is they rarely, if ever, participate in threads that aren't about Obama. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #45
Yer darn tootin! I've had enough, though--and I think a lot of us have! MADem Apr 2014 #48
Right there with you...I am SICK up to here with the Negativism! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #80
+1 Jamaal510 Apr 2014 #51
!!! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #64
Yes. I'd hope those complaining about not getting single-payer in 2009-10 would spend more time Chathamization Apr 2014 #74
DING! DING! DING! You have characterized them perfectly. We can't move forward with these.... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #75
Exactly....we have to get the mushy middle off the couches to vote in the midterms! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #81
My father (rest his soul) was one of those. He thought his vote was too important to use it in.... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #84
Yep....you have to appear POWERFUL to appeal to those....you have to make them understand VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #87
Exactly. But I'm under no illusion that we're actually dealing with "Democrats". It's the internet. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #90
Yep...I tend to agree with that sentiment... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #91
Tarheel, now that is an excellent STRATEGIC post. Thanks for that. Number23 Apr 2014 #100
It's time to move beyond them. Let them do their 3rd party thing, and leave Dems the hell alone. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #106
Good grief. I could not agree with you more. Number23 Apr 2014 #109
That should include their own site. How does Third Party Underground grab you? I'd donate just.... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #113
They could take Jon Huntsman voters with them Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #115
As long as they take the Putinistas/Assangeanistas/Naderites & Greenwaldians too. nt Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #141
I believe that's how the repubs started it. pangaia Apr 2014 #83
They have both the money Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #127
Nader wouldn't have been the image I would have chosen myself BainsBane Apr 2014 #137
And how many Democrats in the Senate voted to confirm those five. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #6
What year was that? JoePhilly Apr 2014 #7
Nader had no more to do with than you did. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #9
Did voting for Nader help prevent Bush from getting to select the nominees? JoePhilly Apr 2014 #11
Just keep telling yourself that. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #12
Certainly did not help stop him from getting to do so. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #13
And TWO of the justices that gave the election to Shrub had those lopsided votes 30 years ago. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #15
So clearly, we should blame the current Democrats. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #17
I knew that was coming. What I call Standard Answer 35B. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #18
Good. I never miss either ... and I take others with me. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #23
I have to disagree. Laelth Apr 2014 #76
Ohhhh kay....so stuff that happened in the past ONLY counts when YOU say so!! MADem Apr 2014 #44
Besides Bobbie Jo Apr 2014 #19
Yup, this one is on Nader and his supporters too. We all warned Naderites about the SCOTUS stevenleser Apr 2014 #60
Bingo Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2014 #123
Of course, almost all analyses show that Nader wasn't responsible for Gore "losing" nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #126
Shh. We're not supposed to talk about that leftstreet Apr 2014 #8
The reality, is the president basically gets the SCOTUS nominees he wants. DanTex Apr 2014 #14
Evidently NONE of them voted their conscience. hobbit709 Apr 2014 #16
Your point being? DanTex Apr 2014 #21
Robert Bork would disagree furiously! (Of course, that's what he ALWAYS did...!) MADem Apr 2014 #46
Why are you trying to make sense of nonsense? Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #24
If we lose the Senate - then maybe progressives should leave the Democratic Party en masse Anansi1171 Apr 2014 #30
It's hard to imagine that as Obama's legacy leftstreet Apr 2014 #32
LOL Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #34
Thx for drawing attn to my post leftstreet Apr 2014 #35
That political capital met very real resistance by TPTB! Anansi1171 Apr 2014 #37
No it's not leftynyc Apr 2014 #49
Point taken - and being "leaderless" was misguided Anansi1171 Apr 2014 #50
Hopefully learning from their mistakes leftynyc Apr 2014 #53
Agree...thanks for that exchange. Very enlightening conversation VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #82
I know but lame ducks tend to lose their political capital pretty fast. n/t totodeinhere Apr 2014 #39
Grandma needs help in the kitchen... MADem Apr 2014 #47
Uh..okay. Well, hurry back n/t leftstreet Apr 2014 #54
Not MY grandma.... nt MADem Apr 2014 #103
This message was self-deleted by its author frylock Apr 2014 #89
Anyone who believes that is a fool. DCBob Apr 2014 #56
Have you noticed that, somehow, things just keep getting worse? MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #58
Sure, when you work very hard to ignore positive results. jeff47 Apr 2014 #65
Name something that's improving substantially MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #68
9.5 million more of them will be able to see a doctor this year VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #85
Will a higher or lower percentage of Americans have health insurance MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #92
Some things are getting worse, others better. DanTex Apr 2014 #79
I Think that's a Mis-characterization of a Valid Point Some People are Making fascisthunter Apr 2014 #59
Gore was too corporate for you? That's all this would have taken stevenleser Apr 2014 #62
See, I didn't even say that, and I voted for Gore fascisthunter Apr 2014 #67
The point is broader than for whom you personally voted. It's the philosophy you are espousing. stevenleser Apr 2014 #70
well, I Didn't Vote for the Guy, Because I didn't Think He had a Chance fascisthunter Apr 2014 #77
if only 550 of the 300,000 registered Democrats that voted for bush had instead voted for Gore... frylock Apr 2014 #86
The time to make such a point is in the primary. jeff47 Apr 2014 #66
That's All I Think People are Saying fascisthunter Apr 2014 #72
Perhaps you should seek out a site that doesn't have a partisan "Democratic" mission then. This one Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #69
Exactly. nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #71
Would I be considered a soothsayer if I say "Hobby Lobby anyone". Boomerproud Apr 2014 #73
pretty certain everyone here votes for dems. don't know what the fuck else you want.. frylock Apr 2014 #88
Everyone may vote for Dems Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #110
apparently if you don't for dems and do it with complete adulation.. frylock Apr 2014 #112
Would bringing a HOPE poster into the voting booth help? Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #114
Good grief. Just another of the many whining about DU posts. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #148

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
26. Yah, but Manny never really responds to
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:54 PM
Apr 2014

my posts. I found it interesting that he self-deleted that one, though. I guess the writing on the board seemed like the writing on the wall to him. Good decision, I'm pretty sure, and one that probably should be noticed by some other DUers.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
28. No, he doesn't have me on ignore.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:02 PM
Apr 2014

From time to time, he deigns to reply to me, but never in any substantial way.

I cuss rarely. When I do, though, it comes from the heart.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
33. That one was particularly OTT.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:23 PM
Apr 2014

He may as well have said "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here." That wasn't even a subtle effort.

They're winning. No matter what we do, they win...and we can't stop it.

Good thing the POTUS doesn't listen to that kind of talk. We wouldn't have the ACA if he did.

I suppose POTUS should just give up his efforts to raise the minimum wage, too, because "they're winning," or whatever.

I think some serious shark got jumped with those comments.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
38. I thought so, too. Apparently Manny, or whatever his name is,
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:53 PM
Apr 2014

finally got it that he had stepped a little too far over the line, so he killed the thread by self-deleting. He won't go away, though, and will be back spreading FUD and negativity again very soon.

It's tiresome, but I try to comment in each of those threads.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
41. Yes, of course. Hasn't everyone read that?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:06 PM
Apr 2014

For pete's sake. We do not know who our Manny Goldstein is, though. At least I don't. Maybe some people do know. I don't care.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
42. I'm not putting up with it anymore.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:07 PM
Apr 2014

If I see real bullshit, I'm gonna get a screen capture and I urge others to do the same. That way, there will be none of that "What, who, me?" naive posturing when people spreading FUD are called on their crap. "I never said that!!" Oh, really?

I liken this kind of aiding and abetting to behaving like the little kids in the Shake and Bake commercials....except in this case, Granny makes up a nice big plate of Phony Republican Fried Chicken, and these little FUDders pass it around to all and sundry....bottom line is, even when they aren't the authors of the FUD, they are still responsible for giving it legs--they can't play both ends when they stand beside "GOP Granny" and all that fake fried chicken, and proudly proclaim "An' ah hepped!"



I'm with you on GOTV all the way. We need to make our OWN Shake and Bake, and help elect/re-elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to public office.



Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
78. You need to go someplace else.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:08 PM
Apr 2014

Anyplace, I and most of the rest of us don't care. I read that crap and could not believe someone would post that here. Sometimes you do OK, but really, I've never seen you contribute actual information to anything.
You're an egotist with no actual redeeming social qualities. You need to leave.

Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #78)

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
99. Like I care.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:50 PM
Apr 2014

He made it to my ignore list. I'm at the point where I've figured out this place attracts a lot of anti-social folks who have no interest in actually making things better, only in their own egos.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
107. I'm with you 100% but don't let this one be the reason you get a post hidden.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:58 PM
Apr 2014
I'm at the point where I've figured out this place attracts a lot of anti-social folks who have no interest in actually making things better, only in their own egos.

Again, I'm with you completely. I've learned that too. There are alot of people here that are either so bored, lonely or pathological that they squat on this web site, shit on everything that makes people happy and even remotely involves making progress, and stoke doom and gloom. All we can do is just take comfort that DU seems to be the only place in the world outside of their living rooms where they have large enough numbers to drown out everyone else.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
111. There are a LOT of good people here.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 07:01 PM
Apr 2014

You find them in the positive posts, in the state groups, and in the politicians' groups.

The few incessant gripers and Debbie Downers have a signal-to-noise ratio that is way outta whack.

I am not an advocate of censorship, but I do think that if criticism is not smart or constructive, it's worthless. Swearing, pouting or acting like an ass doesn't enhance any post writer's reputation and it doesn't build community here. It's just pissing in someone else's Cheerios, and it's meanspirited.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
125. Careful
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 09:15 PM
Apr 2014

Or you'll be next on the alert roster for making an indirect reference.

Watched them nail you just that way bigger than shit. Still shaking my head over that one.


Number23

(24,544 posts)
128. ...
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 09:31 PM
Apr 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4770416

You are too freaking awesome.

After seeing how pissed of MADem was upthread, I went and had a little looky loo to see what all the fuss was about. That OP was classic, not for its content but for the responses.
 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
129. Shaking my head. Jury results.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 10:10 PM
Apr 2014


AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Wed Apr 2, 2014, 08:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Edit before it gets hidden!! The flying monkeys won't abide insults against their king!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4771921

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

That's an ugly attack on fellow DU members.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 2, 2014, 09:02 PM, and the Jury voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not a personal attack, though.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yeah this isn't the place forthis kind of post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree with the edit advice and disagree with the flying monkeys/king portion, but it made me laugh. As an insult, it's pretty mild. I can't see gigging her 20 points for it; I want #23 available to judge my posts. She seems like a very fair person.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This whole thread is probably keeping the juries busy. Ugh.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: flying monkeys? I'm tired of the insults on both sides and will elect to hide any time I am on a jury. It's just plain rude and not appropriate.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
143. Certainly not DU's finest hour.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 02:00 AM
Apr 2014

I suppose it's a good thing that the admins are all seeing. Can't understand why anyone would be mad about that post ... unless they were, in actual fact, a flying monkey?

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
144. Flying monkeys have feelings, too
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 06:47 AM
Apr 2014

Very sensitive feelings, it seems. Maybe we need a flying monkeys group.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
146. Same here.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 12:05 PM
Apr 2014

the expressions on their faces seemed to fit, too.

Here's one that I saw on Facebook this morning that made me laugh.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
147. A relative with a pug wants to do that "for real!"
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 12:10 PM
Apr 2014

I think the pug's 'shirt' is photoshopped, but that is an hilarious pic!

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
124. Not that bad.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 08:56 PM
Apr 2014

Surprised he deleted it. My reply would have been something like: we're winning, gay marriage, marijuana, dadt, aca, etc. Then go on about how they are trying to steal our wins.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
52. I tried to comment on a recent one of his...and then my mobile wouldn't send.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:52 PM
Apr 2014

I had to get going, so I figured my comment wasn't that important. There were enough people letting him know the OP was scorned.

I got particularly clear opportunity on what to make of his persona when I saw him bend over backwards to post an apology for having posted something that was possibly racist-- Yet he posted a blatantly sexist OP mocking women who mention the negative aspects of the sexualization of women, and dismissed any women replying with their thoughts on the matter.

I particularly resent that he responded to my comment with further insults. It appeared his intent was to uphold his arrogance and demoralize me and women in general.

I got no use for that crap.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
97. Time we did a little "get up, stand up" and just not put up with it anymore.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:49 PM
Apr 2014

If it makes DU suck, we gotta say so.

Enough!

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
120. I agree, but how...
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 07:45 PM
Apr 2014

sexism on DU has been a struggle too. Alerting, notifying MIRT, messages to the Admins.....there are some things that haven't become clear enough to a large enough majority, so that people can use words cleverly and avoid getting the boot.

But, I do see more people here taking a stand against sexism.....maybe it's about a change of heart among more people, rather than focusing only on attempts to control asshattery by outside means?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
140. Sexism is NEVER OK.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 12:43 AM
Apr 2014

I think the admins get that and they've tossed a few troublemakers over the side. And I think it's a combination of people waking up and smelling the coffee, and troublemakers getting bold and mistakenly thinking they can get away with smart remarks. People do tend to not want to think badly of someone who has been here awhile, especially if they don't KNOW the person very well or interact with them ordinarily, but if they sit on two or three juries with the same complaint about the same person, even those who aren't paying attention, who don't visit certain groups, who avoid certain turfs and fights, will start to see what's happening. Then the boom gets lowered.

People can play the "cute" game for awhile, sometimes for a long while, but time is never on their side. With enough posts, a pattern becomes clear.

Also, people should be aware that the admins DO see the alerts, and they see the jury results. Observations by jurors are read by the admins along with the alerts themselves.

And yeah, stuff is often never easy...but a good fight is a worthy fight, ya?

Cha

(296,836 posts)
102. It's the Dead Enders on Endless Parade. It's a damn good thing anyone
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:53 PM
Apr 2014

I know sees that pathetic whining for what it is.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
105. What will the next gripe be?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:55 PM
Apr 2014
The minimum wage proposal isn't enough! Impeach him!!! It's OBAMA's FAULT!!!!
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
55. Manny got disgusted by Manny's defeatism
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:57 PM
Apr 2014

Manny hates when Manny whines. Manny would rather fight than whine.

So Manny make thread go bye-bye.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
3. Democrats had a win yesterday. Expect increased demonization from the usuals. They have an.....
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:07 PM
Apr 2014

election to suppress.



"Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side".


When will "enough be enough"?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
4. Damn, that's right on point! Perfectly illustrated! Well done, you! Wish I could rec your post! nt
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:14 PM
Apr 2014

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
5. And that has to start with the local level. On Ed last night he was talking about how and why the
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:21 PM
Apr 2014

Koch brothers are now using their money to influence a small town election in Wisconsin. We cannot win the top and lose the local elections. This is the year to get in touch of our local party leaders and see what we can do and then follow through to the House and Senate.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
10. "All politics are local". I forget who said it, but it's never been more true than today. The....
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:35 PM
Apr 2014

Libertarian wet dream of states' rights is playing itself out all over the country. And meanwhile, we've got internet folks (supposedly on the left) who are solely focused on the White House, and every perceived impurity of the Obama administration. When do we stop working against one another?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
36. Mah man Tip! Friend to all, including a geezer or two in my family!
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:35 PM
Apr 2014

He was the ultimate politician--a savvy pragmatist.

People don't realize or remember that the GOP excoriated him mercilessly; he didn't let it get to him, though--he knew how to play the game better than they ever could.

People all over the internet bashing Obama from the left could very well be --and likely are--Left-Teas. You can tell if they'll criticize anything and everything about Obama, down to his choice of tie. Nothing is ever "good enough."

When anyone challenges them, they take an approach that "dissent" is patriotic, but they're rabid and unrelenting in their criticism, to the point where they are obvious and their gripes are, well, stupid. They just can't get out of attack mode. It's a visceral thing with them. And it is, as the kids like to say, a "tell."

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
45. One good way to spot 'em is they rarely, if ever, participate in threads that aren't about Obama.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:11 PM
Apr 2014

This used to be a helluva site for real grassroots Democratic activism. Even the state forums were active. "Holding his feet to the fire" now includes calling him names that we can't even call each other. Go figure that one out.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
48. Yer darn tootin! I've had enough, though--and I think a lot of us have!
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:27 PM
Apr 2014

I agree with you about the state forums, too--I put stuff up in mine on occasion, and just get responses from the few die-hards...whereas in DUs past, those groups used to be jumping.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
80. Right there with you...I am SICK up to here with the Negativism!
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:14 PM
Apr 2014

Its not productive....we have midterms....

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
74. Yes. I'd hope those complaining about not getting single-payer in 2009-10 would spend more time
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:44 PM
Apr 2014

participating in the threads that discuss how we get it now.

"Hey, here's how you can get involved with others who are making single-payer happen at the state level."

"Shutup, I want to talk about how we didn't get it four years ago again."

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
75. DING! DING! DING! You have characterized them perfectly. We can't move forward with these....
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:02 PM
Apr 2014

folks. It's like a yoke around the neck, and reeks of a divide & conquer strategy on the part of the complainants. When you talk about a Dem majority to help this president get a more progressive agenda, you're met with lies about him having a majority for two years, when in reality, we had a majority for like 72 days.

IMHO, they aren't the ones we need to be trying to reach. They're a lost cause AFAIC. There's plenty of fertile ground in the folks who either don't vote, or only vote in presidential years. There are plenty of younger voters who don't yet realize that what happens in off year elections directly affects what happens with the pocketbook issues they complain about.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
81. Exactly....we have to get the mushy middle off the couches to vote in the midterms!
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:16 PM
Apr 2014

To do that WE have to act like the WINNERS we are...we should be dismissing all notions from anyone, of us being anything else but!

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
84. My father (rest his soul) was one of those. He thought his vote was too important to use it in....
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:25 PM
Apr 2014

off year elections. This mindset is widespread, and it's dangerous. I tell folks, you don't get to bitch if you don't participate, I'm not interested.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
87. Yep....you have to appear POWERFUL to appeal to those....you have to make them understand
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:31 PM
Apr 2014

that it is IMPORTANT for them to go vote...YOU WON'T do that by being "Democrats" flogging Democrats!

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
90. Exactly. But I'm under no illusion that we're actually dealing with "Democrats". It's the internet.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:35 PM
Apr 2014

You know what I mean?

Number23

(24,544 posts)
109. Good grief. I could not agree with you more.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 07:00 PM
Apr 2014
Let them do their 3rd party thing, and leave Dems the hell alone.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
113. That should include their own site. How does Third Party Underground grab you? I'd donate just....
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 07:10 PM
Apr 2014

to be done with 'em.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
83. I believe that's how the repubs started it.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:23 PM
Apr 2014

Small town local in the early 1980s. School board here, town council there. drip, drip, drip. Like a cancer.
And I have had cancer. The only way to get rid of it is to GET RID OF IT.. and even then, one never knows for sure.

BainsBane

(53,012 posts)
137. Nader wouldn't have been the image I would have chosen myself
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 10:34 PM
Apr 2014

I'd have gone with someone further South.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
6. And how many Democrats in the Senate voted to confirm those five.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:23 PM
Apr 2014

Two were confirmed by a 98-0 and 97-0 votes.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
7. What year was that?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:27 PM
Apr 2014

Why attack today's Dems for something that happened about 30 years ago.

Oh wait ... nevermind.

Tell me, do we think Al Gore would have nominated Roberts or Alito?

Did having folks vote for Nader help us in any way?

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
9. Nader had no more to do with than you did.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:32 PM
Apr 2014

But keep bringing that one up with anyone that isn't a cheerleader.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
11. Did voting for Nader help prevent Bush from getting to select the nominees?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:35 PM
Apr 2014

Every vote for Gore was a vote to prevent Bush from getting to select SCOTUS nominees.

Can't say the same about a vote for Nader.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
12. Just keep telling yourself that.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:38 PM
Apr 2014

On Planet Bozone it may actually come true.

But that seems to be the answer you give every time.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
15. And TWO of the justices that gave the election to Shrub had those lopsided votes 30 years ago.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:41 PM
Apr 2014

But I don't live on the range.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
17. So clearly, we should blame the current Democrats.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:43 PM
Apr 2014

And what, stay home?

Vote for 3rd party candidates?

What's your plan?

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
18. I knew that was coming. What I call Standard Answer 35B.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:45 PM
Apr 2014

that's the standard reply by the cheerleaders.
I haven't missed an election yet even if I had to hold my nose and carry a barf bag.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
23. Good. I never miss either ... and I take others with me.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:50 PM
Apr 2014

I encourage them to vote for the Dems ... to both advance policy, and also prevent the GOP from getting sufficient hold of our government to screw it up.

If you are confused as to why I asked ... that's is ... DU has plenty of disgruntled folks who will sit out elections.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
76. I have to disagree.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:06 PM
Apr 2014
DU has plenty of disgruntled folks who will sit out elections.


Sorry to interrupt this exchange, but I seriously doubt the veracity of the claim highlighted above. Political junkies vote, and the vast majority of the people who post on DU are political junkies (whether they admit it or not) compared to the average American voter.

-Laelth


Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
19. Besides
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:46 PM
Apr 2014

SCOTUS appointments are a presidential privilege.

Democrats understand "doing governing" unlike Repubs who exist to tear it down.

Yes, elections are THAT important.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
60. Yup, this one is on Nader and his supporters too. We all warned Naderites about the SCOTUS
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:12 PM
Apr 2014

If I had a nickel for every time Naderites in 1999-2000 told me that "Democrats are the same as Republicans", I'd have enough money to own stock holdings almost as large as Ralph Nader.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
14. The reality, is the president basically gets the SCOTUS nominees he wants.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:40 PM
Apr 2014

I know that reality is a troubling concept for some here, but if it wasn't Scalia and Kennedy, it would have been two other right-wing judges. The problem was that Reagan was president, not that every single Democrat in the 80s was some kind of right-wing sellout.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
21. Your point being?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:49 PM
Apr 2014

That Dems in the 80s made a mistake in deferring to senate tradition? OK. Maybe. The relevance?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
46. Robert Bork would disagree furiously! (Of course, that's what he ALWAYS did...!)
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:22 PM
Apr 2014

In fact, that little fucker (and pardon my French) was the namesake of the term "Borking."

So would Harriet Myers!

Sometimes, the President gets the SCOTUS nominees that can pass the gauntlet--not the ones they necessarily want.

That said, I do agree with your essential point-- that wingnut Presidents are going to nominate wingnut justices--they're just going to pick ones that can fly under the radar, who can provide "non-responsive responses" to tricky questions, or who can outright lie without blushing furiously, and who will say what the Senate wants to hear. I mean, after all, Dumbya didn't say, "Gee, I couldn't squish mah best gal Harriet through that meat grinder, let me look at my short list and pick someone who's been working for the Southern Poverty Law Center as an alternative!"

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
24. Why are you trying to make sense of nonsense?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 02:51 PM
Apr 2014

It will drive you nuts. Let it be. No one is fooled by that stuff.

Anansi1171

(793 posts)
30. If we lose the Senate - then maybe progressives should leave the Democratic Party en masse
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:09 PM
Apr 2014

I believe 2014 will determine 2016. Austerity will a huge burden for many Americans as Ryan class warfare kicks into high gear.

Here's a brief look at what the Republicans are after and what they intend for most of us:

leftstreet

(36,098 posts)
32. It's hard to imagine that as Obama's legacy
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:22 PM
Apr 2014

Obama came into office with more political capital than any other President in our lifetimes. That he could leave that office losing the House and the Senate, boggles the mind



What happened?

Anansi1171

(793 posts)
37. That political capital met very real resistance by TPTB!
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 03:52 PM
Apr 2014

Rick Santelli on CNBC literally christens the Tea Party?

While Occupy is vilified and dismantled.

The Obama presidency, if it ends in such spectacular failure that all is lost by 2016, should demonstrate to progressives that the state is far too corrupt to be changed from within.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
49. No it's not
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:35 PM
Apr 2014

The difference between the teabaggers and Occupy was that as venal as the baggers are, they realized how to get things done - they got their people elected and that change is coming from within. If Occupy had channeled their incredibly good message with leaders who knew how to get things done, they would have been heroes.

Anansi1171

(793 posts)
50. Point taken - and being "leaderless" was misguided
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:44 PM
Apr 2014

And indicates a promising but immature movement.

But whether art thou millennials now?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
53. Hopefully learning from their mistakes
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 04:53 PM
Apr 2014

and planning on voting every single election day for the rest of their lives. I wish they had been more successful with their message - it was a winning message but very few in Washington had any reason to take it seriously.

Response to Anansi1171 (Reply #30)

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
58. Have you noticed that, somehow, things just keep getting worse?
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:06 PM
Apr 2014

I mean for the 99%, that is?

For anything involving cash for the 1%?

Even when we win, we lose?

Would this be a sign of roaring success on the part of our elected Democrats?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
65. Sure, when you work very hard to ignore positive results.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:29 PM
Apr 2014

It's very easy to construct a frame where everything always gets worse. All you have to do is ignore any good thing that happens.

You do an excellent job at that, btw.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
85. 9.5 million more of them will be able to see a doctor this year
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:28 PM
Apr 2014

and 100% of them have no lifetime caps....no copays or deductibles for diagnostics and vaccinations....no pre-existing conditions....kids stay on parents insurance until 26....out of pockets capped at about 6 grand. ....next year Rx counts for your Out Of Pocket....fixed the donut hole in Senior Rx coverage....

Oh and lets not forget...Lily Ledbetter and the end of DADT and eliminated the "exempted status" for many employees....

Etc. Etc. Etc...(I am sure I have left some out)

but nothing has improved right?

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
92. Will a higher or lower percentage of Americans have health insurance
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:43 PM
Apr 2014

compared to when President Obama took office?

To be clear - ACA is better than nothing.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
79. Some things are getting worse, others better.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:12 PM
Apr 2014

For example, the healthcare system in the US just got a lot better. But I share your frustrations with economic inequality.

Here's the thing. Right now, while you and I are arguing here on the internet, President Obama is going around advocating for an increase in the minimum wage. By executive action, he has already raised the minimum wage for federal workers and contractors. But he can't raise the legal minimum wage for everyone without a congressional vote.

So my question for you is: if Obama is really some corporate apologist president for the 1%, why on earth is he going around advocating for an increase in the minimum wage? Does he not understand that this will increase labor costs and cut into profits and potentially reduce CEO bonuses while directing more money to workers?

And if he somehow manages, against all odds, to get the minimum wage increase through congress, will that count as something getting better? And if he fails, will you lay the blame with the GOP congress who blocked it, or is it somehow both parties' fault even though one of them is for it and the other against it?

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
59. I Think that's a Mis-characterization of a Valid Point Some People are Making
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:08 PM
Apr 2014

The point I see people making is that we should be voting for those who are not pro-corporate tools into the Democratic Party. Just voting for anyone with a "D" next to their name ensures nothing. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Or is it that you want pro-corporate Dems instead of progressive liberals ones, or think it doesn't matter?

If you vote for a pro-corporate Dem, do you truthfully expect them to support progressive or liberal policies or vote in favor of Supreme Court judges who aren't pro-corporate themselves?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
62. Gore was too corporate for you? That's all this would have taken
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:19 PM
Apr 2014

550 folks who voted Nader to instead have voted for Gore.

Your usual rhetoric is completely overwhelmed by today's evidence.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
70. The point is broader than for whom you personally voted. It's the philosophy you are espousing.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:38 PM
Apr 2014

People saying things exactly like what you posted were trying to convince me to vote Nader instead of Gore. If you were old enough, I am sure they were approaching you too.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
77. well, I Didn't Vote for the Guy, Because I didn't Think He had a Chance
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:07 PM
Apr 2014

...and wasn't interested in any party except for the Democratic Party. I knew at the time the only thing standing in between the White House and the GOP was the Democratic Party. I am old enough, but I don't assume every DUer saying "just voting for any "D" is not going to mean much in the end. I think supporting and voting for candidates with an informed mind is important if one wants representation of their values, and saying this just makes the party stronger in the long-run,but that's my pov, which is liberal.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
86. if only 550 of the 300,000 registered Democrats that voted for bush had instead voted for Gore...
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:30 PM
Apr 2014

there, I fixed it for you.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
66. The time to make such a point is in the primary.
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:31 PM
Apr 2014

Vote out the corporate dems in the primaries. If they're the ones left standing, vote for them in November. And then vote against them in the next primary. Repeat until they've been removed.

It's how the Republicans were dragged to insanity. We can easily do the same to drag the Democrats to the left.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
72. That's All I Think People are Saying
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:42 PM
Apr 2014

and trust me, the Democratic candidate gets my vote every election. The concern is for blindly voting for any candidate that has a "D"next to their names expecting them to represent your values. It's an important point.

Well, that's what I'm going to do.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,222 posts)
69. Perhaps you should seek out a site that doesn't have a partisan "Democratic" mission then. This one
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:37 PM
Apr 2014

is for Democrats. Skinner didn't specify, but until & unless the TOS changes to "fascisthunter approved Democrats", we'll forego your self declared purity standards.

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Boomerproud

(7,940 posts)
73. Would I be considered a soothsayer if I say "Hobby Lobby anyone".
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 05:43 PM
Apr 2014

I will be shocked if it is not the same result come mid-summer. We have been/are being screwed.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
88. pretty certain everyone here votes for dems. don't know what the fuck else you want..
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 06:31 PM
Apr 2014

do you want blood? is that what you want?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
112. apparently if you don't for dems and do it with complete adulation..
Wed Apr 2, 2014, 07:08 PM
Apr 2014

then your vote somehow doesn't count.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
148. Good grief. Just another of the many whining about DU posts.
Thu Apr 3, 2014, 07:47 PM
Apr 2014

Someone writes a post that doesnt show proper reverence to the Pres, and "The Team" responses with dozens of self-righteous "We Love Obama irregardless of whatever he should do" posts.

We have an important election coming up. Someone has to be the bigger person.

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