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Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:39 PM

Had to share this FB post from a friend ...



68 replies, 10148 views

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Reply Had to share this FB post from a friend ... (Original post)
sunnystarr Mar 2014 OP
Mnemosyne Mar 2014 #1
Wounded Bear Mar 2014 #2
HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #3
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #4
TBF Mar 2014 #6
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #8
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #10
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #14
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #15
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #30
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #33
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #41
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #45
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #59
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #65
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #68
druidity33 Mar 2014 #44
TBF Mar 2014 #17
mindwalker_i Mar 2014 #23
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #25
TBF Mar 2014 #11
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #12
TBF Mar 2014 #13
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #16
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #22
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #26
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #34
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #36
TBF Mar 2014 #31
ChisolmTrailDem Mar 2014 #19
TBF Mar 2014 #32
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #37
TBF Mar 2014 #38
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #39
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #40
TBF Mar 2014 #42
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #55
TBF Mar 2014 #56
MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #60
TBF Mar 2014 #61
TBF Mar 2014 #57
A Simple Game Mar 2014 #53
Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2014 #29
justiceischeap Mar 2014 #43
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #46
Scootaloo Mar 2014 #52
fasttense Mar 2014 #54
kcr Mar 2014 #62
blm Mar 2014 #63
edbermac Mar 2014 #5
Orrex Mar 2014 #7
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #9
Name Unpronounceable Mar 2014 #20
Tsiyu Mar 2014 #24
sunnystarr Mar 2014 #35
alcibiades_mystery Mar 2014 #18
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #21
Rider3 Mar 2014 #27
Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2014 #28
IrishAyes Mar 2014 #47
IrishAyes Mar 2014 #48
sunnystarr Mar 2014 #50
IrishAyes Mar 2014 #67
sunnystarr Mar 2014 #51
IrishAyes Mar 2014 #66
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #49
liberalmike27 Mar 2014 #58
hueymahl Mar 2014 #64

Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:50 PM

1. The irony...so true. nt

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:51 PM

2. K & R..nt

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:57 PM

3. Without the Soviets the capitalists lost all reason to model beneficence

which, in turn, liberated the dogs of finance to eat the peace dividend, which wasn't a piece, but rather was most of everything.

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:58 PM

4. Hyperbole

 

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:31 PM

6. Exactly what do you think is being exaggerated

and please be specific.

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Response to TBF (Reply #6)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:03 PM

8. All of it

 


We have not lost our houses (private property). Yes, bad decisions and bad luck have led to some people losing property that they were in the process of buying, and yes, sometimes government flexes its muscle and wrongly kicks people out of homes they own. But to say Americans no longer have the right to private property is nothing but hyperbole.

We still have our savings and are still free to contribute to it. Yes, some who were willing to leverage their savings have ended up losing it, and many don't have the discipline to save, but that in no way means we have lost our savings. Exaggeration.

We are not forced to labor by anybody or any entity. We are free to choose to not work, work part time, full time or whatever. Where and where not. Pretending we are forced in labor camps for pennies a day is hyperbole.

We have a voice in the system through our vote. Your voice has not been silenced simply because others disagree.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:16 PM

10. You are hilarious, you know that?


Your entire screed is more evidence of how out of touch many Americans are.

Where does one start to enlighten you?

Maybe I'll just say that if anyone believes your happy little post, they will also believe there are pink unicorns and elves and flying monkeys, too.


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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:47 PM

14. So enlighten me

 

What facts do you have that prove me wrong?

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:55 PM

15. You seem to live in some other America

You've never heard of CCA - private for profit prisons, whose lobbyists throw lots of $$$$$$ at our legislators so that even breathing will soon become a crime and they can keep up the "growth of prisoners" for more moolah??

Never heard of the failed War on Drugs that makes us the nation with the HIGHEST INCARCERATION RATE IN THE WORLD?

How does imprisonment become a fucking GROWTH INDUSTRY in a free nation?

Never heard of them using prison labor at a dollar a day so US corporations can get richer off the false and unconstitutional imprisonment of our citizens?

Never heard of income inequality or the fact that the federal "poverty rate" is a sham - that over half of Americans now live in poverty?

I could go on and on and on, but somehow I believe you would rather live in la-la land and blame the poor and working class for the way they are being exploited, underpaid, underserved and imprisoned at a phenomenal rate.

Capitalism and corporate ANARCHY have FAILED, my friend. We are approaching third world status fast and furiously, but blame the poor and working class, because that makes everything ALL better.


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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:47 PM

30. Nope, we live in the same America

 

I just don't exaggerate things for personal and political gain.

Prisoners forfeit many of their rights when they knowingly break the law and, to be quite honest, using them to say we Americans are now forced to labor for meager wages, is pretty weak.

I haven't blamed anybody for anything. In fact, I have acknowledge that it is more difficult for some than others. None of that has anything to do with the fact that the OP is exaggerating certain things to make a political point.
We Americans have NOT lost the houses we own or the savings we have accumulated. We have NOT been forced into labor or that we have NOT lost our right to vote.

Look, our capitalist society has not failed, we are not becoming "socialist" and we are not worse off than the "evil communist." We are not becoming a third world nation, sheesh. Our system is just being abused and we will fix it.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #30)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:02 PM

33. Where's my political and personal gain?

Dammit, if that's what I get for telling the truth, I want some!

You keep living in your dream world, MO_Moderate. Maybe some day you will "knowingly" break some new law ALEC passes and then you can get back to us on how our constitution means anything with Capitalist anarchists running the show.

I suppose you would like to see me incarcerated because I ( very infrequently ) use cannabis to ease my PTSD symptoms? And I should get a long prison sentence for that in my state, because that makes a lot of sense? Hell yeah! PRISON AMERICA!!!!!!

Maybe you will get sick and drain your resources trying to get well.

Maybe the bank will take your home even when you've been current on all payments,( and because you love the bankers so much you should just let them HAVE it! ) and you will be sleeping in a tent under a bridge. These dire conditions may be the only thing that makes you see what life is really like for millions of US citizens

It seems you are doing well in this new Third World economy. Yay you, but you do not tell the truth about the system or the poor.

We have no voice in the system any more. Not to any degree that will make our lives better. Our politicians, under the unfettered capitalist model, are now OWNED by the capitalist anarchists and you well know it.

We are at the mercy of oligarchs and the cruel wealthy now, and you know that as well.

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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #33)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:28 PM

41. What does any of that have to do with the exaggerations in the OP?

 

And why make even more silly exaggerations just to "try" and get under my skin? It's not working.

Look, you are free to believe that you are somehow oppressed and living in some kind of evil Wal-Mart controlled third world nation all you want, good for you. Reminds me of the Alex Jones updates my neighbor loves to give me. It's really no reason to wish ill on me for simply disagreeing with you though.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:47 PM

45. Like I said, you're hilarious


May you reap what you sow, Friend....Sometimes you have to suffer to understand reality.

Back before the 2008 meltdown, we had a lot of DUers like you and I could name names but won't.

They blamed all the problems of the poor on the poor. One even claimed that she didn't even know anyone who made less than 100 grand a year, and that those of us struggling just weren't trying hard enough. She is no longer here or is using a sock puppet.

Soon after that, there was a question on DU: what's our biggest problem in the US?

I answered "growing poverty and income inequality." At the time, I was ignored. Now a lot of DUers are in poverty. They finally get it.

I only wish for you enlightenment. by whatever means necessary

And I note how afraid you are to debate facts, as TBF gave you quite a few and you appear too afwaid to address those pesky "facts," instead accusing the poster of being a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the FACTS even economists say are TRUE.

So your motive isn't discussion, it's denial of reality to make yourself feel better.


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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #45)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:07 AM

59. That's just it

 

I haven't blamed ALL of anything on anybody. I simply stated that the OP is exaggerating a few problems in order to make its claim.

I am more than willing to debate facts and hell, I'll even keep it simple so that you might be able to stay on subject and follow along:
Have Americans lost our right to private property?

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #59)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 02:52 PM

65. The OP didn't say we'd lost our RIGHT to houses

It states we would "lose our houses" which indeed has happened for many.

YOU are putting your own words in the OP.

Or will you deny many have lost their homes due to our pitiful wages, jobs sent overseas, profane health care expense -all cost-cutting measures made without regard to the consequences by CAPITALISTS?

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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #65)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:32 AM

68. Your own words justify my claim of hyperbole

 


Under communism, WE ALL would lose our private property and would be forced into labor.

WE however, have NOT lost our houses and savings, SOME have. NONE of us are FORCED into labor for meager wages. Do some lose their homes? YES. Do we need to raise our wages? YES. Is our health care to expensive? YES. But we CAN fix those things with our votes, something you CAN NOT do under communism.
Our lives are NOTHING like those who live under communism.

Taking the negative experiences of some to suggest they are the experiences of the whole is an exaggeration. It is hyperbole. It's also the same kind of logic the nuts on the right use to claim we are now a socialist country every time a new government program is enacted.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #30)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:34 PM

44. tell that to my father and grandfather

who both lost near their entire retirement savings in the "collapse" of 2008. Tell that to my neighbor who lost her house for missing 2 payments (no fault of her own... a very long story). Capitalism in this country has turned people into nothing but numbers... that is the goal of the system, not an abuse of it. There is a PROFIT IMPERATIVE that allows all corporations to take advantage for the sake of more money.



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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:18 PM

23. I believe in flying monkeys

I see them coming out of people's butts all the time.

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Response to mindwalker_i (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:21 PM

25. ...



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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:23 PM

11. But how many people really have these rights?

The people with all the $$$ have the rights. If you are in the top 1% (or especially the top 1/10 of the top 1%) congratulations, you do in fact have property, savings, high income and a voice. If not, why are you pretending you do?


I will share some info with you on economic inequality:

You may have property but what is it worth (and what kind of money are you really making):




And guess who is paying all the taxes:





Guess who has 2/3 of the wealth in the country:





The top 1% are sitting pretty:

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Response to TBF (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:43 PM

12. Great charts and visuals

And it appears to be ((((((((( ....... crickets........)))))))) from our Moderate friend from LaLa Land

to you TBF

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Response to TBF (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:58 PM

16. Gotta love MJ

And our Moderate pal won't even respond to you!

That's funny as hell....in a sad way

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Response to TBF (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:16 PM

22. We all have those rights

 

What you are talking about are goals and yes, it is easier for those with money to reach those goals. The difficulty to reach those goals does not mean those rights no longer exist. People still own their houses, still have savings and still vote.

And I don't really fall for the 1% Bilderberg Rothschild taking over the world conspiracies, sorry. I frankly could care less how much money others have earned.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:25 PM

26. And I suppose you could care less

( although "couldn't care less" would be the correct phrase, Alex ) that those rich fucks make their money exploiting others?

That if the minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be around $20 now, but we have to fight to get even HALF of that approved?

That poor working class people like me have NO ACCESS to any health care, while our millionaire politicians get the best care money can provide?

You don't care how much the rich man makes the same way you don't care how little the working person makes. I see what you did there....

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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #26)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:12 PM

34. You sure assume alot

 

must be why you debate from emotion.

I don't support the exploiting of any human being.
I would love for a higher min wage.
We ALL have access to health care, our problem is with cost and that is why I support single payer.
I support the right of workers to unionize if they so choose, so I must care a little about how little a working person makes.

Can you see how silly your argument is yet? How pointless it is to jump to conclusions? I merely pointed out the facts showing how silly the OP was and you automatically assume I am against all those things.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #34)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:23 PM

36. No, I read your post

You blamed the working class from the get go.

They made "poor decisions" oh, maybe like paying for their sick child's care which is so exorbitantly expensive in the GREATEST NATION ON EARTH they lost their home because of it? Maybe they should have let the sick child die so they could keep their home?

You are aware that many foreclosures were due to WORKING citizens choosing health care so they could live?

People are forced to work for substandard wages. We have no living wage mandate in America. If people made a living wage, perhaps they could make better decisions with their money rather than having to make such dire choices like choosing health care rather than house payments. You say you'd "love" a higher minimum wage, while pretending its meager amount doesn't leave US workers out in the cold when it comes to home ownership and savings.

You are aware of many things I could bring up, yet you say it's not so bad as others are saying.

Someday, I just hope you wake up. As for emotion, where are you getting that? I'm having a conversation. If you aren't, and are only trying to play a really bad shrink on the internet to score a point or two, you MIGHT be on the wrong forum.....

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:47 PM

31. This isn't crazy talk -

I have no use for conspiracy theories. Or empty rhetoric. Show me some facts and we can talk.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:04 PM

19. I'd like to see your response to TBF's posts #11 and #17. nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:48 PM

32. His response is nada -

all he has is empty rhetoric like every other republican. No facts, nada.

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Response to TBF (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:28 PM

37. You only posted that info for your own political and personal gain!



The poster is afwaid of you, because FACTS, so he or she attacks me.

Fun times in the US of A

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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #37)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:33 PM

38. Either that or I am part of his Bilderberg Conspiracy

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Response to TBF (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:36 PM

39. That's what it was



No facts for you!



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Response to TBF (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:03 PM

40. Not true

 

Do you really need title of ownership documents to believe Americans own their own homes? No.
Do you really need bank statements to know Americans have savings? No.
Do you really need employment records to know Americans are not forced into slave labor? No.
Why? Because anybody with any common sense knows those things to be fact.

Of course, if you can show me to be wrong about any of those things, I will gladly admit so.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #40)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:52 PM

42. You haven't shown me anything

factual. Empty rhetoric.

Homes - show me how many Americans own their homes (I mean own - not upside down in a mortgage they may never pay off)
Bank Statements - I'm sure the 1%ers have healthy statements. If you want to show and tell we are eager to look
Employment Records - go ahead - tell us about all the folks in the service economy. not that we don't already know

Common sense = Nada.

Show me some actual facts that are from decent sources and we'll talk. I was willing to show you the facts to illustrate that a good share of the wealth in this country is controlled by fewer and fewer people. You don't want to respond to that because you know that it's true.

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Response to TBF (Reply #42)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:50 AM

55. Want me to also "show you" that the sky is blue?

 

The fact is that Americans can and do still own their "houses," something they would not be able to do under communism. To suggest that the greater wealth disparity means we are no better off under capitalism than we would be under communism, is hyperbole.

I didn't question your little charts about the wealth being held by fewer and fewer people. But I did ignore them because they have nothing to do with my reply about the OP being nothing but hyperbole. That the OP is doing nothing more than exaggerating a few current problems in order to promote some misguided anti-capitalism meme.

Contrary to what many on here seem to think, our President is NOT some corporate stooge enabling some group of "1%" to enslave us.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #55)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:00 AM

56. "little charts" -

how condescending and nasty.

Frankly your love for the wealthy and their accumulation of all resources disgusts me.

You have no facts to show that Americans are doing well financially, rather you have NOTHING because you know as well as anyone that the wealth is being hoarded by just a few at the top. And you have no facts to show me because your pie-in-the-sky capitalist fantasy does not exist.

You have some nerve posting at a democratic website with those values.

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Response to TBF (Reply #56)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:33 AM

60. Oh brother

 

I didn't say "Americans are doing well financially," now did I. I understand that too many Americans are struggling right now. I know that our nations wealth is all out of whack. I know there are things we could do to fix things.
NONE of that has anything to do with the OPs exaggerated claim that we have lost our right to private property and are forced into slave labor.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #60)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:38 AM

61. That is the problem with your words -

you are distorting what the OP said while you claim "hyperbole". Maybe you should take a look in the mirror this morning.

Where did the OP say "we have lost our right to private property" and we "are forced into slave labor"? The OP didn't say that. You did.

The OP claimed we have lost our houses - and many have lost them to foreclosure (however the banks determine to define "foreclosure" which is a BIG problem) and the OP said "forced to labor for meager wages". How is that not true. Your distortions do not change what the OP said, and the OP remains accurate.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #55)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:04 AM

57. 165 likes on this OP as of 9:33 am -

every single one is deserved.

Most republicans have no idea what the word actually means and I see from your words that you could use a primer as well.

You can start here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 07:21 AM

53. Maybe a little modification will make them true.

Do you really need title of ownership documents to foreclose on peoples homes? Legally yes, practically, apparently not.

Do the lack of bank statements show Americans have no savings? Yes, I know, I know, hard to prove a negative.

Are Americans being forced into slave labor? No. Of course not, slaves would be too expensive, they have to be fed, require medical attention, housing, etc. much too expensive. It's much easier to pay a small wage, use, abuse, discard, and replace. Sometimes they don't even have to bother with the discard part, just seal the mine shaft and be done with them.

Why? Because anybody with any common sense knows these things to be fact.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:42 PM

29. Oh, it comes down to "discipline."

So, those people who lost their entire savings because some finance guru came up with exotic instruments to fleece a huge amount of the population, well, those people should have been even more disciplined, eh?

And yes, wage earners are coerced into working for companies because to do otherwise would be to starve.

Nothing hyperbolic about the OP at all.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:25 PM

43. Most of your points are true

for people that are fortunate enough to have decent paying jobs... however, there's a new sector of homeless and most of it is because or our economy and capitalism... let me explain:

In the 1980's the Reagan Administration began dismantling regulation in industry, thinking a "free" market would be better for the economy--they felt competition between companies, forcing said companies to have better products was bad for business. I'd imagine some pretty serious corporate lobbyists helped with those laws. Now look at all the conglomerate monopolies we have in the US... no price competition (except to see how high they can go before it pisses people off), no competition to offer a better product.

In the 1990's, the Clinton administration signed NAFTA into law, taking the concept of capitalism and the "free" market even further. All the somewhat decent paying jobs in America began to flee to Mexico and India where the corporations could avoid Unions, who fought for fair wages for their workers. Now the Unions are almost dead and most of our manufacturing jobs are in other countries where corporations can charge us 30k for a car that probably cost 5k to build--including wages.

In the 2000's, the Bush administration took us into two wars, one of which was unnecessary and caused a lot of unnecessary death (and debt)... however, friends of the administration in the private mercenary business (and oil industry) made out like bandits--not just in Iraq and Afghanistan but in New Orleans as well. How many people lost their homes in NOLA and were shipped to other parts of the country and offered no way to get back home? Lots. Those people not only lost their homes but their families as well (because they were shipped to other states in this country).

What does this have to do with some stupid graphic and hyperbole? Not much but the picture you're painting does not apply to most Americans. Most Americans don't have savings because they're too busy working two or three part-time jobs and trying to figure out how they're going to feed their families, pay their rent, afford public transport if they don't have a car, afford car insurance in they do have a car, or goodness forbid, if their car breaks down, how they're going to pay for the repairs.

And, oh my, if they can't get to work because they lost their transportation, they'll most likely lose their lousy part-time job which is necessary for their survival because who gives a shit about some part-time employee when we can live in some fantasy world that ALL Americans have the same rights... when clearly they do not.

Another point is about health care. Until recently, there was the worry of a family member getting sick and not being able to get care but of course the people that work 3 part-time jobs to survive can't take sick time 'cause they'll lose their jobs if they do.

Oh, and did I forget to mention this fictional (not-so-fictional) person I'm imagining used to be in middle management and owned a home and leased a new car every few years and sent their kids to private school and bought the kids new shoes whenever they needed them?

What you seem to be missing out on is that all Americans have the right to those rights you speak of but that doesn't automatically mean they have those rights or will ever get to a place where they can have a savings account or own a home or have good credit (because between eating and the electric bill... what choice do they have).

Take a wider look at this country and see that there are people that are struggling and it's because of capitalism that they are. Take a look at the information for CEO's and their golden parachutes and the same CEO's closing companies in the US because it's more important for them to make extra profit so they can get their parachutes.

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 07:35 PM

46. But all people have access to health care according to our Moderate friend

who appears too timid to answer your very well-written post.

We poor have access if we sell our kidneys or go without food or give our kids up for adoption.

GAWD would I love some access to health care. You have no idea.

But our moderate friend seems to be telling me if I shit out a lot of money I can haz access too! I better get to work on that....



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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 04:05 AM

52. Nothing is said about the loss of private property - that's YOUR hyperbole

 

The majority of Americans cannot afford to own a home. A substantial number of those people struggle with rent. Homelessness is eternally on the rise. I would count that as "losing our houses" quite succinctly.

The value of our savings has been consistently dropping - as has our collective ability to maintain savings in the first place. Fewer and fewer people are saving money, as wages stagnate and prices inflate.

And while no, we are not "forced" to labor, good luck subsisting without doing so. There really is no choice involved here, you work or you go hungry. And wages are dropping, where they are not stagnating. Benefits are being slashed. All while prices go up steadily, pinned as they are to the cost of oil. Minimum wage, at full time, is below the poverty line, and well below a decent standard of living. And for those who can only find part-time work, it's even worse.

Meanwhile, our tax dollars go to bank CEO bonuses, the military interests of foreign nations, and the health coverage of men and women who strive to prevent us from gaining such coverage.

As for our vote, who shall we vote for, the corporatist party, or the other corporatist party? The Republicans and democrats do have differences, some of them profound - but economics isn't one of them, really. Both enact policy to benefit the upper echelon and strive to silence the needs of the lower economic brackets - there is much talk of the "middle class" - which is taken to mean homeowners with two garages, benefits, college savings for the kids, and vacation time for the adults - but nothing is spoken of hte lower middle class, much less the poor or impoverished. Plenty of talk about expanding the "high tech sector of the jobs market" but that doesn't help if you weren't able to afford six years tuition needed to enter those fields.

Capitalism is a parasitic system. Left unchecked it will impoverish the multitude for the gain of the minimal number of people. And there is precious little checking going on in this system, as it stands.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 08:39 AM

54. You may not have lost your home

 

But many people were conned out of them by banksters with forged documents. It's called fraud and the attorney general looked the other way when it came to holding the banks accountable.

The comment makes NO mention of loss of private property rights. Yes you can own a home and if your lucky a bank wont forge documents and force you into foreclosure.

Many people loss their savings in the crash of the stock market. People believed that the stock market was a safe place to put their retirement savings. It wasn't but we were all told how great those 401k plans were. You might have been one of the lucky few who didn't lose out but many did. Many corporations have reneged on their retirement plans so that those people who thought they would get a decent retirement after working for 20 or 30 years for lower pay don't get anything. Corporations, and now the city of Detroit, routinely go through bankruptcy and end up better off then before while shedding the responsibility and contracts agreements to provide pensions for their retired workers.

We are not forced to labor? Really? We can choose to NOT work? If by choosing we starve to death, freeze to death or end up dying from a curable illness, is it really a choice? How is that a choice of any kind? And the wages these days are horrible. You try feeding your family by working 60 hours a week (if you can get the hours) as a waiter or retail sales clerk. You do not have a choice if you want to live. You must work at what ever job you can get. That is No choice, that is an ultimatum. You better work at a job or starve.

How do you know your vote was counted if you use a voting machine? There is no way to prove it wasn't simply ignored. Voting in this country is NOT a voice. It is a pretend action. We all pretend that the voting machines are not rigged. There is no evidence the machines are accurate.

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:56 AM

62. And what caused the sudden massive collection of bad decisions and bad luck

that overcame huge swaths of the American public? Coincidence?

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:39 AM

63. NC is now forcing landowners to allow fracking.

Texas and Florida have made it illegal to live off the grid.

The corporate elite are on their way to having more say over the landowners, workers, consumers, and women thanks to their GOP water carriers.

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:11 PM

5. Reminds me of the quote from John Kenneth Galbraith.

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.

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Response to edbermac (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:43 PM

7. That's a great quote

I first read it in a Dave Berg comic strip for Mad Magazine ages ago. Apparently (as I just now learned) Galbraith identified it as an old Polish joke.

Sadly as true today and when it was first coined...

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:13 PM

9. Yep


The takers take and rule the show, and have somehow fooled the racists and bigots into believing the bejillionaires are above reproach - that it's the poor working class woman or minority who is evil. That there's "just not enough money out there!"

Stupidity led to this mess we're in. But the rich are quaking in their boots, because people ARE slowly waking up.

Woe to the greedy when the US populace has finally had enough.

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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:05 PM

20. I wish that I could share

in your optimism, Tsiyu, but I think it'll take generations before the majority idiots in the country wake up and fight back against these greedy scumbags. Even now, every time someone brings up the evil, secretive Cock brothers buying up politicians, their defenders (probably piss poor themselves) bring up George Soros as a counter, as if Soros donating money to hospitals and orphanages is an evil thing to match the greed of people like the Cocks.

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Response to Name Unpronounceable (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:19 PM

24. I'm not always an optimist, believe me

My governor - the rich fuck whose family has cheated people for years - decided not to expand Medicaid. I was so excited to think I could see a doctor after 20 years, but my hopes were swiftly dashed. I cried for a few days when I realized ACA wasn't going to help me.

My governor would rather see people like me just die and go away.

As for your last comment, I just read this: It is now considered mental illness to share what you have with others!!!!!!:

http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/981266/i-dont-think-hes-crazy-mystery-man-who-gave-out-free-money-in-halifax-reportedly-detained-in-p-e-i-hospital/

They locked this guy up for giving away money to others!

On Sunday evening, Chelsey Wright posted a photo of her father on Facebook to call attention to what she says has been “unfair” treatment by the hospital and police.

She said Wright was returning to P.E.I. after their family spent March Break in Halifax where he shared “some extra money” with needy people. She said her father had worked hard to save up the funds.

Social media was buzzing about Wright’s assessment Monday, with many people calling for his release. A Facebook group was started Monday morning titled #OpFreeRichardWright, and now has over 1,200 members.

Health P.E.I said in a release they cannot comment on specific patients or their care due to privacy reasons

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Response to Name Unpronounceable (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:15 PM

35. Actually that's the scary part

Slowly but surely our right to demonstrate legally is more and more limited and groups are delegated to obscure places. Major demonstrations that involve 10's of thousands of people aren't covered by our media. It's now SWAT teams with Tasers and pepper sprays who swoop down to quell any expressions of dissent. The MSM is "hired" to sell the populace on how un-American protesters are and dehumanize them as ungrateful takers. I remember when OWS was making their mark and the media focused in on some of the homeless who attached themselves to the group for some food, shelter, and probably some company and used them to denigrate the movement. Similar to using the beach bum on food stamps who buys lobster to sell the idea that all SNAP recipients are abusing their benefits.

You're so right about the "majority of idiots in the country" taking generations to wake up and back. I talk to an online friend every day. She really has a heart of gold and has been a good friend. She lives in New Hampshire, isn't really political at all, but sure has absorbed the media bs about poor people. Now she's struggled most of her life. Her hubby is going to retire at 72 in a few weeks and right now still works about 7 days a week making about $10 per hour. They just paid off their house. Two sons, a DIL and granddaughter live there as well. I think they are representative of the "majority" who are blind to what goes on in their country and who vote Republican. Politics and government are just too complex for them and they don't want to spend time thinking about it when it's so much easier to parrot what they hear around them. Of course I've been educating her as much as I can before she says "Ok let's talk about the weather." I like to think I've made a little headway but I don't count on it. So I keep trying.

I'm an immigrant from Germany and arrived here in Nov. 1950 while in the 2nd grade. My NYC early education instilled intense patriotism in the country I immediately loved. I only returned to Germany once in 1990, a few months after the wall came down. I was able to finally meet my father in East Berlin. I met many, many people while there, both young and old. What struck me most was the interest and knowledge all of them had in world around them, in politics, and in history.

It gets depressing to know that at least half or more of our population is so easily swayed to vote against their own interests. To know that some are just plain ignorant and others just don't want to bother to be informed. They aren't aware of the danger. I just keep hoping that leaders will emerge at every level - local, state, and national. I greatly admire our President. But I know that one man can't do it all himself. WE have to do all we can but in the light of Citizens United, I'm afraid we need more WE with money. Are there any PEPSI brothers out there?


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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:04 PM

18. After the Soviet Union collapsed, there was a saying in Russia:

 

"Everything the Communists told us about communism was false. But everything they told us about capitalism was true."

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:09 PM

21. Thanks for sharing! Absolutely brilliant!

 

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:36 PM

27. Isn't that the truth.

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:39 PM

28. A hardy hear hear!!!

So fucking true.

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:58 PM

47. Wow. I'll try to share that on FB, ok?

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:59 PM

48. Can you please provide a link where I can FB share from?

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #48)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 12:25 AM

50. My friend Bobby shared it on mine.

I'm not sure how to do what you requested. I just copied the image to my computer, uploaded it on some web space I have and put that link here. Actually it's easier to put a pic on FB than here lol. Do you want my FB link? While I'm pretty computer literate I've never been that big a FB user and I'm not sure of the ins and outs.

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Response to sunnystarr (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:00 AM

67. I read your last post first. Thanks again for the link.

Before I started volunteering for this charity, I only used FB as a convenient news feed so as not to clutter my personal email boxes. I even told my RL friends with FB pages NOT to 'follow' me because I can't return the compliment. Not enough time. But now I share a lot of things on my timeline, not only as a convenient cache, but also to provide others involved in the charity (those who do 'follow' me) good graphics for them to share far and wide. Every drop in the bucket counts.

That's how we take and hold beaches - one grain of sand at a time.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #48)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 12:38 AM

51. Ignore my previous post

I think this is what you're looking for. I just clicked on what he shared and copied the link.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=608935402522452&set=a.160124877403509.40503.106680532747944&type=1&theater

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Response to sunnystarr (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:54 AM

66. Thank you so much!

I've been away from DU for a week or so, working on something that might prove financially beneficial in the long run, and I want that as much for the sake of charity as perhaps becoming able to send $ to Democrats.

Meanwhile I'm continuing to volunteer with others, and one of the things I consider important is sharing good posters. A visual being more powerful than a thousand words - unless it's Lincoln or Obama speaking, of course!

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:53 PM

49. So true. nt

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 10:06 AM

58. Stealing

Back to Facebook.

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Response to sunnystarr (Original post)

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:56 AM

64. Thought provoking graphic, but it is hyperbole. And misleading.

It is not universally true that "we would lose our houses and savings and be forced to labor eternally for meager wages with no voice in the system" or that all this has "come true under capitalism".

The recession caused some folks to suffer. And there is a big problem with corporate money in the political system. But it is not capitalism per say that is causes this. It is corrupt politicians and a conservative supreme court that is warping the version of capitalism that made this country great. Capitalism did not cause the recession. Greed, corruption and the dismantling of safeguards and permitting the rise of oligarchy is what cause the recession (and oligarchy/monopoly is the enemy of capitalism).

So, the graphic posted by the OP makes a point by using hyperbole. But I'm afraid it ends up making the wrong point.

Capitalism works best when it tempered by a strong social contract. Capitalism is like a force of nature. It does what it does. It is up to us to temper it properly to protect the most vulnerable of our society from excess. It is that social contract that has been under attack by the right. And we play right into their hands by attacking capitalism itself instead of the people trying to dismantle the social contract.

We need strong unions
We need higher minimum wage
We need single payer
We need corporate money out of politics
We need prosecution of white collar criminals
We need to break up the big banks and reinstall Glass-Stegal

What we don't need is to do away with capitalism.

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