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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis book changed me from being a "conservative" to a "liberal"....
"A Peoples History of the United States"
In fact, it was the opening chapter about the traditional story of Columbus we were taught in school compared to how Zinn tells it, and his subsequent analysis of what history is and how it is taught that captured my attention.
I had never been exposed to that before and I found it fascinating.
The youth of America need to be exposed to this kind of "other" explanation of history, an alternate, more truthful accounting of history that doesn't indoctrinate the ways of empire into our kids' heads - but educates them into critical thinking.
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MadHound
(34,179 posts)I know several teachers who include Zinn, Chomsky and others in their lesson plans.
matmar
(593 posts)But as for my own kids' public education, their history teacher in the local H.S. told me he wasn't allowed to use A Peoples' History of the United States in class.
That was nearly 10 years ago, mind you.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)I know of teachers who are using Zinn to help teach history in the 5th grade. The administration has no problem with it.
matmar
(593 posts)
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)are not all teachers in this country who teach history.
Therefore all kids aren't being taught this, which is what he's saying.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)And pointing out the obvious. Have a good day.
iverglas
(38,549 posts)I thought the OP was interesting and sincere. I thought your remark:
was really kind of obnoxious.
What made you think that the OP thought that they aren't being exposed to this and similar works?
It would have been very easy to say, instead, "Did you know that some teachers do include this material in their courses today?"
Cirque du So-What
(25,927 posts)
It's not a discussion unless some element of drama is included, yunno.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)without hell to pay in most places in the US these days. However, that doesn't mean that the teachings of Chomsky and Zinn don't weave their way into the classroom.
And I'm not trying to pick at you. I come from a family of teachers and I know what they're up against today.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)It depends on the district in which you live. A college town in the Midwest, no problem. An agricultural town thirty miles away, maybe, maybe not.
There is a reason that history is being forced out of the curriculum by our emphasis on math, comm arts and science. You can no longer hide behind the mythical history of America that was so popular fifty years ago. Even when I was in school, thirty five odd years ago, the dam of information was starting to break. It has become a serious flood by now, so the strategy is to teach less and less of history.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)I did grad work in an extremely conservative state, and my students simply refused to acknowledge anything that didn't toe the mythological "US is great and infallible" line.
I now teach in a more cosmopolitan state, with college students who have a much more diverse upbringing, and they're more willingly to put myths aside.
I teach Latin America. I do a whole lot of myth-busting. But even armed with documents to prove what I teach, some people simply do not acknowledge historians as anything other than left-wing propagandists.
Papagoose
(428 posts)Heresy!
Hell, my kid asked me why her US History teacher acts as if the North winning the Civil War is lamentable.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)And I agree, where I went to grad school teaching Zinn or Chomsky could be grounds for immolation. But not where I live now. I think it really depends. I grew up in a fairly liberal age and time (and I'm not old by any stretch), but even there teachers are under attack for what they do.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)That is an awesome book, and one I recommended to a young woman coming into her "own" trying to find her way.
In particular, the Triangle Shirt Factory account was a story that had been passed down from my own family. My grandmother and her sister refused to work in that awful factory, were docked their pay for doing so, and learned to their horror what happened. When I got the the part where that happened, the account was astounding to read... matching so well.
There is a repeating course of the turn in history and you learn very quickly in this book how and why it has always been that the working class Americans are responsible for any real change.
K&R
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)My grandparents were very pro labor and had lots of history to share about the Depression, about WW2, about unions and strikes etc on the West Coast.
I was lucky to be around them enough to absorb much of their repeated stories and memories.
jerseyjack
(1,361 posts)In N.J., I applied to be a history teacher in two districts. One, the supervisor said, "It is now 10:40. I know what every teacher in the classroom in each high school is teaching at this minute."
In another district I was told, "Here is the course of study. Here is the text. How you approach it and what you emphasize is your choice."
Guess which position I accepted. Guess which one would likely not allow Zinn.
matmar
(593 posts)going on as there is "indoctrination" - as far as US history is concerned.
Am I correct?
caraher
(6,278 posts)In wealthy districts the kids will be expected to excel in college and will need to develop some critical thinking skills. Those same districts also need to recruit good teachers, who are more likely to insist on actually teaching something of substance.
By contrast, in resource-poor districts the history teacher is more likely to be chosen mainly because the school needs a good football coach, and he has a teaching certificate.
At high school age, students are more likely to adopt their parents' politics than anything else, and students also compartmentalize well ("this is the answer I give in the class for the teacher, but it's not what I really think" - this goes on a LOT with teaching evolution, for instance. In fact, I'd say that if you take your mental image of the school most likely to adopt (or want to adopt) teaching the latest flavor of creationism, that will be the same kind of school most inclined to the indoctrination model for US history). So while some students might have their eyes opened, it's not enough for rich conservative parents to demand dumbed-down schools for their kids when that would put them at a competitive disadvantage for college.
Indoctrination central would be rural schools and working class areas where terms like "Reagan Democrats" are not considered oxymorons.
nxylas
(6,440 posts)Poor rural southern and western states are probably more likely to have restrictive statutes ensuring that only the "USA! USA! USA!" version of American history is allowed to be taught in schools.
ananda
(28,858 posts)... John Steinbeck.
Of course his fiction is great, particularly The Grapes of Wrath, which
highlights the need for workers' rights.
But some of his other books are also fantastic for opening eyes by shedding light
on labor history, politics, and the way hate works in the USA. Here I'm
thinking of books such as In Dubious Battle (labor history and Eugene
Debs); America and Americans; A Russian Journal; and Travels with Charlie.
What Steinbeck does like no other author does is to create a dialogue based
on our common humanity, to penetrate through hates and prejudices to the heart.
It's one thing to be brain-smart; it's another entirely to be heart-smart.
matmar
(593 posts)I wonder how a remake of The Grapes of Wrath would fare today.....
ananda
(28,858 posts)I sometimes wonder the same thing.
I would like to see the book more fleshed out than it was in 1939,
but that movie was still dammed good.
I could see Ewan McGregor as Tom, and Jim Caviezel as Jim Casy.
Maybe Kathy Baker as Ma.
Bainbridge Bear
(155 posts)I'm sure he would approve of the importance of being "heart-smart". I was fortunate to live in the San Francisco Bay Area once and was able to make my way to the Steinbeck Museum in Salinas. I recommend it to anyone who who would like to find out more about one of our great writers. They even have the pickup truck and camper shell that he used when he went out to rediscover America, the trip that resulted in his fine book "Travels with Charley."
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Beautiful.
onlyadream
(2,166 posts)Thanks... I'm definitely going to check that book out for my history loving son!
ProgressiveATL
(50 posts)Entire book: http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
On Howard Zinn, RIP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Zinn
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)The referenced book, by James Loewen can be a great "warm up" for Zinn. Zinn can be a touch "overwhelming" for those who have never been exposed to history in any other way than Hollywood and high school. It is as much about the process of teaching history as it is about history itself.
arthritisR_US
(7,287 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)I hated American history. It was nothing but one war after another and nothing but what the government did. It was remembering dates by rote regarding American acquisitions of the continent and the spread of our imperialist white agenda. Then one day my counselor told me I could fulfill that requirement by taking another version of American History, like women's history. I did and it turns out this country has had a fascinating history when you learn about the different immigrants who came over in waves, and about the Native Americans and the slave trade and when wars were covered it was always from the women's perspective. How during every war women stepped in to do the men's work as well as their own. It was about women's suffrage and the anti-slavery movement and the fight to get the right to vote.
The US has far more depth to it than just one President after another going to war in whatever year it happened with everything else delegated to being a mere asterisk.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I took "standard" American History in high school. Then I took an "alternate" version in college. Dug around a bit to find a replacement for the regular class that was taught. A bit of an eye opener in that it focused on the immigrant nature of the country, and what each wave did/caused/dealt. After that eye opening experience, I took some world history and the REALLY opened up the eyes.
grntuscarora
(1,249 posts)wouldn't touch "A People's History" with a 10-foot pole, I have no doubt.
And I feel the same way you do about the book. So I gave a copy to my 14-year old and asked her to read it because I felt it was important. It was my college-age daughter that had recommended it to me.
This isn't meant to bash teachers. Just certain uber-conservative school boards like ours.
SamG
(535 posts)that book and hated Zinn for years. Conservatives think Howard Zinn was the Saul Alinski of history teachers.
I think it depends upon where one goes to HS and college as to weather that book is often used.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Teach Zinn: be on the phone for three hours every night explaining to parents that I do not hate America.
arthritisR_US
(7,287 posts)for provided an inside perspective.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I can only imagine.
Quite honestly, I don't think Zinn makes a good "high school" history text. A bit too much preaching and politics in it for that. Don't get me wrong, I think it has the basic CONTENT that is needed. The presentation could use some adjusting.
The reality is that a big part of the problem with high school history is that it is intended less as a history course and more of a civics course, with some anthropology thrown in for context. You can't understand our culture, or our government, if you don't have some knowledge of where it all came from. Zinn does a good job of exploring and explaining the role of the population on our history, and de-emphasizes the whole "great leaders and military campaigns" approach, which tends to distort our history. Our "great leaders" responded to the people, they rarely actually "lead" them. The continental congress got drug kicking and screaming into the American Revolution, by the "regular people" of the northern colonies. Franklin "followed" the people into the idea of independence. He spend alot of time in London trying to find a way to stay IN the british empire, while the people were quickly rejecting that idea at all.
Zinn does a good job of illustrating the peoples role in driving events, and the tendency of those with economic and civil power to try to thwart them. And that has to be understood in order to be an intelligent "citizen". I just felt that Zinn didn't emphasize the "success" of the people in ultimately "triumphing" over the economic powers that be. He speaks in more historical terms, and a high school class probably needs a touch more "civics" in it, and maybe some anthropology thrown in.
Joseph8th
(228 posts)If only every historian were Zinn.
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)One of my favorite movies.
RZM
(8,556 posts)AJ, who is portrayed as not particularly bright, is assigned to read it in school and finds it interesting. Tony's response is:
'So you finally read a book and it's bullshit?'
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Howard Zinn is wonderful and I agree with you about his book. There's even an illustrated "comic book" version that is a quick read.
Thanks for this OP. Recced.
Cirque du So-What
(25,927 posts)Here is A People's History, available in its entirety:
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
The main point that I took away from his work is that from its inception, the powerbrokers never intended for America to become the egalitarian utopia that the founding fathers touted. 'We the People' are tolerated only to the extent that we serve as a pool of cheap labor and cannon fodder for their wars.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I should have a copy, but don't and neither does the local library.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)matmar
(593 posts)Zinn's book does that.
Along with listening to Thom Hartmann.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)got root
(425 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)when I read it in 1989 or so. I thought it was great then.
Now, having done more research, I think it is kinda hackwork in some ways.
For example, as I now kinda skim the first chapter. First, in a People's history of the United States he spends a fair amount of time talking about Columbus, and Peru, and Mexico, rather than the United States.
Secondly, he quickly strays away from facts to put his own interpretation on events Here's how he describes King Phillip's war, something which I have studied fairly extensively.
"The English found their excuse, a murder which they attributed to Metacom, and they began a war of conquest against the Wampanoags, a war to take their land. They were clearly the aggressors, but claimed they attacked for preventive purposes. As Roger Williams, more friendly to the Indians than most, put it: "All men of conscience or prudence ply to windward, to maintain their wars to be defensive."
Yeah, I call bullshit on that. The story is not nearly as simple, as black-and-white, as Zinn portrays it here. Here's how Ellis and Morris describe it in a much more detailed account.
Ellis and Morris seem to give the most complete account, if not the most modern (1906). Here's how they describe the immediate cause.
"The trial and execution of the three Indians (who had been accused and convicted of killing Sassamon who had apparently been spying on King Phillip) aroused the Wampanoag warriors to madness. From all sides came reports to the authorities of excesses on the part of the Wampanoags. Cattle were shot, corn stolen, houses robbed; in some places outbuildings were fired. The attitude of the warriors had become defiant, while spies reported that strange Indians were swarming into Phillip's villages and the women and children were being sent to the Narragansetts....The authorities held back from all agressive action, in the belief that such a course would allow the excitement among the warriors time to abate, but as Phillip made no attempt to clear himself, James Brown of Swansea, who had been on friendly terms with him, solicited and obtained permission to inform Phillip that the Plymouth authorities disclaimed all injurious intentions and urged him to discontinue hostile preparations." KPW pp 49-50
Although some mind-reading authors claim that the colonists had no real desire to avoid war, Ellis and Morris also write this:
"Rhode Island, alarmed at the state of affairs, made ineffectual attempts to compromise the
matter and bring Philip to an agreement. Deputy Governor Easton of that colony, and five others,
including Samuel Gorton, met Philip and his chiefs at Bristol Neck Point on the 17th of June, and
(1673) proposed that the quarrel and all matters in contention should be arbitrated. It might be
well, was the reply, but that all the English agreed against them. Many square miles of land
were taken from them by English arbitrators." (KPW p. 51)
Yet, Zinn describes it as a war of conquest, happily embarked upon under the pretext of the death of Sassamon.
And, of course, it is mostly about those darned whites massacring those mostly helpless, and purely peaceful Native Americans. Things like thie following are just swept under the rug in Zinn's account.
However, when the war finally began, I do note this:
"Panic already reigned among the scattered farmhouses that stretched along the eastern shore, and Major Bradford, with the company from Bridgewater, leaving Swansea on the 23rd, marched down to Jared Bourne's house at Mattapoiset where nearly seventy people had collected. Everywhere along the march were to be met people flying from their homes, wringing their hands and bewailing their losses." (KPW p. 59)
and this
"The spring (of 1676) was opening with terror. No man dared go out to his fields unless guarded by his neighbors and soldiers. Food was scarce. No husbandman stirred from his door save with arms in hand, and at night the town guards watched upon the stockade. Families on the outskirts dared not occupy their homes, and even in the villages people left their homes at night for the protection of the garrison." (KPW p. 184)
and this
"Everywhere there was terror and fear and every day brought news of buildings burnt and settlers killed. The towns around Narragansett Bay were abandoned save by the soldiers and the most resolute, who took refuge in the garrisons, and even Providence could count but fifty of its five hundred inhabitants." (KPW p. 188)
Instead, Western civilization is disparaged, Indian civilization glorified and the Europeans are just conquerors, annihilating races in the name of a false idea of progress.
Rather than a more truthful account of history, it just seems more like propaganda from another direction.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)We need more to be like you and reconsider what we have learned beginning with K- 12 historical mythology.
Those of us who are Gen X to late boomer adult ages are the ones who are not only some of the least well educated in US history, we are also teaching and on school boards.
James Loewen is a sort of gentle introduction to open minds to the fact that we have been lied to.
The series of books regarding historical lies is very good. "Lies My Teacher Told Me" as in what those of us from 60-early adult have learned in US classrooms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Loewenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Loewen
cilla4progress
(24,726 posts)If more Americans understood that historically unions representat the working class as a whole - vs. the owners of industry, corporate heads, they would be more supportive of them, I believe. Unions got a bad name starting in the 60s under Hoffa, when their power ran rampant and became corrupted. Historically, the unions spoke for the workingmen and woman, and were the supreme organized force on their side...still are.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)
greyl
(22,990 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Thanks for adding that link for those of us who do that sometimes. I don't know if we can do that after July 12th of this year.
At 622 pages, as the pdf says, I'm thinking the paperback might be quite heavy to hold and carry around.
I like pdfs because I can alter the font size for reading on my computer. This is going to be a good read for many of us.
donheld
(21,311 posts)
burrowowl
(17,638 posts)is a must READ! And as soon as possible!
DianaForRussFeingold
(2,552 posts)I never learned about this great man in school--Nikola Tesla
~ His contributions to science and technology include the discovery and invention of Alternating current and motor,Fluorescent lighting, Radio, Television, Remote control, Robotics, Radar, X-Ray, MRI and the Wireless transmission of electricity. 
Tesla demonstrates "wireless" power transmission in his Houston Street laboratory in March 1899. http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/index.html 
"The City Of Light" 1893
I sure wish I had this teacher:
I also learned about the the marginalized views of Einstein and Eisenhower on peace... Thanks for recommending this book.. It seems very enlightening!
