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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 12:29 PM Dec 2011

Krugman: Politifact, R.I.P.

Politifact, R.I.P.

This is really awful. Politifact, which is supposed to police false claims in politics, has announced its Lie of the Year — and it’s a statement that happens to be true, the claim that Republicans have voted to end Medicare....to replace Medicare with a voucher system to buy private insurance — and not just that, a voucher system in which the value of the vouchers would systematically lag the cost of health care, so that there was no guarantee that seniors would even be able to afford private insurance.

The new scheme would still be called “Medicare”, but it would bear little resemblance to the current system, which guarantees essential care to all seniors.

How is this not an end to Medicare? And given all the actual, indisputable lies out there, how on earth could saying that it is be the “Lie of the year”?

The answer is, of course, obvious: the people at Politifact are terrified of being considered partisan if they acknowledge the clear fact that there’s a lot more lying on one side of the political divide than on the other. So they’ve bent over backwards to appear “balanced” — and in the process made themselves useless and irrelevant.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/politifact-r-i-p/


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Krugman: Politifact, R.I.P. (Original Post) ProSense Dec 2011 OP
Thank you, Paul Richardo Dec 2011 #1
I didn't kill that guy. Jackpine Radical Dec 2011 #2
lol wakemewhenitsover Dec 2011 #27
Politifact's readers' poll put this "lie" in third for its Lie of the Year boxman15 Dec 2011 #3
Let's ProSense Dec 2011 #6
Politifact's lie should be #1. n/t deacon Dec 2011 #9
Ugh Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2011 #4
K & R. n/t FSogol Dec 2011 #5
The truth has a liberal bias. Laelth Dec 2011 #7
Q.E.D. WheelWalker Dec 2011 #21
Damn right. K + R deacon Dec 2011 #8
Yup, it's deliberate ProSense Dec 2011 #10
the St Pete Times has this on their front page today Enrique Dec 2011 #11
They get slammed secondvariety Dec 2011 #13
They're not so liberal anymore. Fuddnik Dec 2011 #18
PolitiFact’s Semantic Distinction of the Year: Ending Medicare (Time) ProSense Dec 2011 #12
Politifact's Flawed "Lie of The Year" Selection Only Encourages More Lying ProSense Dec 2011 #14
did you google to get that link, or just go to the site? I googled a bunch of Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #16
Google. ProSense Dec 2011 #23
PolitiFact has failed a fact check and no longer should be considered a reliable source. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #15
RIP PolitiFact otohara Dec 2011 #17
"Fair & Balanced" doesn't mean "make it all look balanced"... Beartracks Dec 2011 #19
why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good lie? BadGimp Dec 2011 #20
K&R....n/t unkachuck Dec 2011 #22
use the nonprofit FactCheck.org, without ties to a newspaper. alp227 Dec 2011 #24
FactCheck.org agrees with PolitiFact klook Dec 2011 #31
so what? just shows they're either just as blind/stupid/gullible as the average jamoke Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #33
Here's Politifact's contact information. CBHagman Dec 2011 #25
The GOP has spent the last 6 months trying to deny the Ryan Plan they voted for. McCamy Taylor Dec 2011 #26
We bat 1000. vs Spineless Jerks Veracious Dec 2011 #28
This is exactly what Molly Ivins warned us about ... eppur_se_muova Dec 2011 #29
That is the same thing that happened to formerly "liberal" tblue37 Dec 2011 #30
I saw a report on the CBS morning show today about the middle class tax cuts deutsey Dec 2011 #32

boxman15

(1,033 posts)
3. Politifact's readers' poll put this "lie" in third for its Lie of the Year
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 12:40 PM
Dec 2011

Number one by a wide margin was a repeated claim by Republicans that the stimulus package created zero jobs.

If they went with that, as they should have, it would've been three straight years where the Lie of the Year was a GOP talking point: In 2009 and 2010, the Lies of the Year were death panels and the Affordable Care Act being a government takeover of health care.

It's obvious they didn't want to be seen as "biased."

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
6. Let's
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 12:50 PM
Dec 2011

"If they went with that, as they should have, it would've been three straight years where the Lie of the Year was a GOP talking point: In 2009 and 2010, the Lies of the Year were death panels and the Affordable Care Act being a government takeover of health care. "


...accept that this is an attempt to appear balanced: Why include a claim that is completely true, one that is the exact opposite of a lie to be among the finalist?

PolitiFact editors chose the Democratic line that Republicans voted "to end Medicare" as the 2011 Lie of the Year, while the winner in our reader poll was the Republican claim that "zero jobs" were created by the economic stimulus. (The Medicare claim was No. 3 in the readers' poll.)

We define the Lie of the Year as the most significant falsehood, the one that had the most impact on the political discourse. In 2010, we chose the claim made by many Republicans that the health care overhaul was "a government takeover." In 2009, we chose Sarah Palin's often-repeated claim that the health care plan included "death panels."

Both were easily the top choices for PolitiFact editors and our readers. This year, the choice was not as clear.

We started with 10 finalists ranging from Michele Bachmann's statement that the HPV vaccine can cause mental retardation to Barack Obama's claim that his review of federal regulations was "unprecedented." We examined each one to see if it could be considered the most significant falsehood.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/20/how-we-chose-lie-year/


Given these organizations' track record on the safety net programs, I'm going to conclude that it's deliberate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100246745

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,355 posts)
4. Ugh
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 12:47 PM
Dec 2011


I had a bad feeling that this is what they would end up choosing- despite the fact that it isn't a lie but Politifact seems to bend over backwards to "split hairs" on issues like this. I can pick up a rock and call it "Medicare" but that doesn't make it so.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
7. The truth has a liberal bias.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 01:11 PM
Dec 2011

I should come as no surprise that one side does more lying than the other.

-Laelth

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
10. Yup, it's deliberate
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 02:10 PM
Dec 2011

either that or Politico's factchecking license should be yanked.

Politifact Has Decided That A Totally True Thing Is The "Lie Of The Year," For Some Reason

<...>

The truth is, Politifact has been so inconsistent in covering this matter this year, that it's pretty clear they really haven't figured this stuff out. Take this entry from April 22, 2011. In it, they take on Rep. David Cicilline's (D-R.I.) statement that, "We just fought a Republican budget that ends Medicare as we know it." That statement is precisely what Politifact calls the "lie of the year." But on one entry, they are of multiple minds on the matter. The entry begins with a graphic that indicates the claim is "mostly false."

But what's this doing there?

Under the Republican plan, developed because the GOP and other critics regard the costs of the current program as unsustainable, Medicare would continue in its present form for people who already receive it. In addition, those 55 or older would be covered by the program once they hit their 65th birthday. So even 12 years from now, part of today's Medicare would remain in place until every recipient covered under the existing rules has died.

The claim would be true for younger people, because the version of Medicare they would see when they retire would be very different. For example, they would have to buy health plans from private insurance companies, with financial assistance and regulation from the government -- akin in some ways to President Obama's health-care plan that so many Republicans object to. In addition, the eligibility age would gradually rise to 67.

Let me put a very fine point on this:

"The claim (that the GOP budget would end Medicare as we know it) WOULD BE TRUE FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE, because the version of Medicare they would see when they retire WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT."
-- POLITIFACT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/politifact-lie-of-the-year_n_1160576.html


So Politifact already acknowledged that the current program would eventually end. Yet in the current piece, they claimed it would still be an option.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
11. the St Pete Times has this on their front page today
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 02:21 PM
Dec 2011

with a huge headline.

It's a very good newspaper, but this is not fact-checking.

secondvariety

(1,245 posts)
13. They get slammed
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 05:39 PM
Dec 2011

constantly for bring a liberal fish wrap around here. Damn fine newspaper and they regularly stick it to Reek Scott-too bad they're pandering this time to the local big mouths.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
18. They're not so liberal anymore.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 08:00 PM
Dec 2011

They started a rightward drift about five years ago after an Editor or Publisher change.

I canceled my subscription to them after they published libelous accusations against a friend of mine in a congressional race. They did another story to "kind of" correct the original. Then, a year later they ran the same original accusations again.

I won't even use them for bird cage liner anymore. I'll go next door and get their Tampa Tribune for that.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
12. PolitiFact’s Semantic Distinction of the Year: Ending Medicare (Time)
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:33 PM
Dec 2011
PolitiFact’s Semantic Distinction of the Year: Ending Medicare

By Adam Sorensen

The ubiquitous fact-checking outfit PolitiFact has chosen Democrats’ charge that Paul Ryan’s budget would “end Medicare” as its Lie of the Year. This dubious honor, which follows 2009 and 2010 rulings that both went against the GOP for its health care claims, is a coup for House Republicans, who will no doubt face an onslaught of Mediscare TV ads next year; the verdict will surely appear in countless defensive spots declaring that their opponent personally perpetrated “the lie of year according to PolitiFact.” Of course, that statement itself relies on the same tenuous semantics that made “Republicans voted to end Medicare” 2011&#8242;s top prevarication in the first place.

<...>

Does all that constitute an “end” to Medicare? It depends. It doesn’t excise the name Medicare from the federal government, but it fundamentally changes the nature of that program from a public, guaranteed benefit to a private, subsidized one that would require seniors to cover more of their own health care costs over time.

Ultimately, in other words, this is a semantic distinction. “With a few small tweaks to their attack lines, Democrats could have been factually correct,” begins one paragraph in the analysis. It goes on to point out that Ryan’s plan wouldn’t affect those currently enrolled in Medicare, that Democrats used images of people too old to be impacted by Ryan’s plan in advertising, and that the program would still be called Medicare. By this literalist interpretation, if someone voted to keep Medicare exactly the same, but changed its name to HealthiCare, you could call that an end to Medicare. You could also nitpick whether the people used in political ads were real testimonials or paid actors. It’s a slippery slope.

Unspecific hyperbole is commonplace in politics. In selecting ending Medicare as the lie of the year, it seems PolitiFact chose it for its political potency rather than for the depth or deviousness of its deception. This is a claim that will appear in countless TV ads next year and has arguably already helped swing a special congressional election in New York. It’s a big deal to be sure, and its nuances are worth exploring. But lie of the year? Maybe that will require a debate over the word “lie.”

http://swampland.time.com/2011/12/20/politifacts-semantic-distinction-of-the-year-ending-medicare/#ixzz1h6ZH5yg8

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
14. Politifact's Flawed "Lie of The Year" Selection Only Encourages More Lying
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 05:39 PM
Dec 2011
Politifact's Flawed "Lie of The Year" Selection Only Encourages More Lying

by Jamison Foser

In naming as its 2011 "Lie of the Year" a statement that is, at worst, arguably true, Politifact has inadvertently said more about itself and the media's failure to adequately combat the lies and deception that act as a cancer on American democracy.

Politifact's assertion that it is a lie to say "Republicans voted to end Medicare" -- and that this is the most important lie of the year -- suffers from some basic flaws: Republicans did, in fact, vote to end Medicare; and Politifact overlooked actual lies that have had and continue to have a profound and debilitating effect on the nation's attempts to come out of lingering economic troubles....The weakness of Politifact's ruling that the House GOP budget written by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) did not "end Medicare" can be seen in its April 20, 2011, explanation:

One of the its major features is dramatically restructuring Medicare, the government-run health insurance program for those 65 and older. Right now, Medicare pays doctors and hospitals set fees for the care beneficiaries receive. [...] In 2022 (under the GOP plan) new beneficiaries would receive "premium support," which means they would buy plans from private insurance companies with financial assistance from the government. [...]the Republican plan would be a huge change to the current program, and seniors would have to pay more for their health plans if it becomes law. [...] Both Republicans and Democrats would no doubt agree that Ryan's plan for Medicare is a dramatic change of course. But we don't agree with the ad's contention that the proposal ends Medicare.

So, according to Politifact, the House Republican plan constitutes a "dramatic restructuring" of Medicare, a "huge change to the current program," and a "dramatic change of course" by ending the direct payment of fees for service and replacing it with a voucher program. In its "Lie of the Year" write-up, Politifact again concedes the GOP plan "dramatically changed the program [for people currently under age 55] by privatizing it and providing government subsidies." That's ending Medicare, just as replacing the armed services with government vouchers for private bodyguards would be ending the U.S. military. As Igor Volsky wrote earlier this month, "closing the traditional fee-for-service program, and forcing seniors to enroll in new private coverage, ends Medicare by eliminating everything that has defined the program for the last 46 years."

But Polififact concluded in April that "we don't agree [...] that the proposal ends Medicare." That should set off some alarm bells: As fact-checks go, "we don't agree" is remarkably weak tea. As justification for naming something the "Lie of the Year," it's an embarrassment.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201112200016
 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
16. did you google to get that link, or just go to the site? I googled a bunch of
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 05:52 PM
Dec 2011

media matters/politifact/medicare combinations today when I heard on CBS's morning show that the lie of the year was the above, wanting to see some response, but I didn't come up with that one.

thanks for that very apt description of the specifics on how ridiculous Politifact's 'case' for the biggest lie of the year was

as someone said in my reading today, what about Kyl's whoppo about 90+ percent of planned parenthood's budget going for abortions, then admitting that it wasn't intended as a factual statement. not much room for cutting semantic hairs on that one

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
23. Google.
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 11:19 PM
Dec 2011

"as someone said in my reading today, what about Kyl's whoppo about 90+ percent of planned parenthood's budget going for abortions, then admitting that it wasn't intended as a factual statement. not much room for cutting semantic hairs on that one"

...I forgot about that one. There are so many lies coming from Republicans.



Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
19. "Fair & Balanced" doesn't mean "make it all look balanced"...
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:39 PM
Dec 2011

... it means "put a leveler on it and show where the imbalance is"!

Politifact Fail.

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
33. so what? just shows they're either just as blind/stupid/gullible as the average jamoke
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 09:36 PM
Dec 2011

or as craven as politifact

there is absolutely no doubt as to the truthiness that lies at the core of this disagreement.

you really have to go no farther than post no. 2 here for its best characterization

tblue37

(64,980 posts)
30. That is the same thing that happened to formerly "liberal"
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 03:07 AM
Dec 2011

Last edited Sun Dec 25, 2011, 12:44 AM - Edit history (1)

media--they were afraid of seeming partisan, because reality has a liberal bias, so reporting the truth would force them to criticize Republicans far more often.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
32. I saw a report on the CBS morning show today about the middle class tax cuts
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 09:27 AM
Dec 2011

that was subtly partisan toward the Right, imo.

The reporter gave the report the usual "both sides are to blame" slant while giving more time to the Republicans' side. I counted four soundbites from GOP (Greed Over Patriotism) members of Congress and only two for the Democrats (Obama and either a Rep. or a Senator whose name I didn't catch).

The cumulative effect of this lopsided "balance," despite its ostensible "both sides are to blame" spin, was to give the impression that the Democrats are off on vacation and obstructing the Republicans' gallant attempt to extend the middle class tax cuts.



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