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Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:23 PM

"We Don't Need Two Wall Street Parties" Markos responds to Third Way attack at Politico.

The Third Way is at it again. On March 19th they put up an op ed at Politico accusing Markos of Daily Kos of folding up the big tent. Politico gave Markos a chance to respond today.

Here is the Third Way attack on the 19th.

Kos folds up the big tent

If Markos Moulitsas had his way there’d be no Affordable Care Act, no Dodd-Frank, no economic stimulus package. That’s the price when purity tests are applied to Democrats.

In a remarkable post yesterday, Moulitsas, founder and publisher of the progressive community site DailyKos, celebrates the departure from the Senate of 10 moderate Democrats over the last decade, and makes clear his hope that Senators Mark Pryor (D-Ark.) and Mary Landrieu (D-La.) lose their tough reelection battles this year. He doesn’t name some other moderates in tight races, like Mark Begich (D-Alaska) and Kay Hagan (D-N.C.), but his logic suggests that he’d be only too happy to say goodbye to them as well.


And once again they used the words "politics of purity".

We have all witnessed the devastating effect that the politics of purity can have, as the Republicans grapple with the toxic impact of the Tea Party on their candidates, their congressional leadership and their governing philosophy. Let’s not become them.


I hate that term. Through the years they have called us fringe, elitists and worse. They should not be accusing others of purity politics.

Here is Markos' response today.

We Don’t Need Two Wall Street Parties

It’s tough to be a “Third Way” corporatist in today’s Democratic Party. Sure, the numerically small faction of Wall Street and Beltway Democrats has long enjoyed an outsized influence on public policy, but all the hedge fund money in the world can’t change the fact that the party is in the midst of a dramatic reorientation toward a new progressive populism. And it turns out that populism is popular! Voters across the country are increasingly concerned about the pressing issues of income inequality and economic security, and elected Democrats have responded with a renewed focus on solutions for working Americans.

...Apparently, the answer is to lash out at me and others who simply want to see the Democratic Party work for Democratic values. Third Way’s Matt Bennett and Jim Kessler took to this site last week to charge me with the apparent sin of celebrating the party’s current Senate majority, one that is finally starting to function thanks to the absence of corrosive elements like Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman, who tied the Democratic caucus in knots just 10 years ago.

....Still, let’s look at the question of whether our populist approach is compromising the party’s ability to win across the country. Bennett and Kessler lament that seven of the 10 right-wing Democrats that I celebrated for no longer being in the Senate were replaced by Republicans—but what was then a Democratic two-seat minority is now a Democratic 10-seat majority. If you’re genuinely a Democrat, you have to admit that a 55-seat caucus reinforced with strong progressive voices is objectively preferable to a 49-seat caucus packed with corporatist Democrats who voted for the disastrous Iraq war and George W. Bush’s budget-busting tax cuts. If you’re genuinely a Democrat.

.....Indeed, it was September 2012, just months before election day, when Third Way’s Bennett claimed that Elizabeth Warren was “catastrophically antibusiness” and that her economic populism was “not a winning strategy.” It would make sense for Third Way to prefer Sen. Scott Brown over Warren, given that 27 of the organization’s 29 board members are current or former CEOs, corporate lawyers or principals at financial service institutions.But you don’t get to whine about big tents after undermining Democratic candidates in the heat of an election.



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Reply "We Don't Need Two Wall Street Parties" Markos responds to Third Way attack at Politico. (Original post)
madfloridian Mar 2014 OP
bbgrunt Mar 2014 #1
madfloridian Mar 2014 #2
sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #65
WillyT Mar 2014 #3
antigop Mar 2014 #4
jazzimov Mar 2014 #5
madfloridian Mar 2014 #7
rpannier Mar 2014 #20
Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #21
Dragonfli Mar 2014 #34
ChisolmTrailDem Mar 2014 #56
Rex Mar 2014 #58
Bjorn Against Mar 2014 #59
frylock Mar 2014 #62
bobduca Mar 2014 #6
madfloridian Mar 2014 #37
msongs Mar 2014 #8
SwankyXomb Mar 2014 #12
leftstreet Mar 2014 #82
zeemike Mar 2014 #9
madfloridian Mar 2014 #48
Supersedeas Mar 2014 #101
Lasher Mar 2014 #10
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #11
madfloridian Mar 2014 #16
Auntie Bush Mar 2014 #45
truebrit71 Mar 2014 #74
JDPriestly Mar 2014 #75
truedelphi Mar 2014 #80
A Simple Game Mar 2014 #84
Mnpaul Mar 2014 #90
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #91
woo me with science Mar 2014 #94
woo me with science Mar 2014 #95
Jake2413 Mar 2014 #13
elzenmahn Mar 2014 #14
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #15
fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #17
Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #18
madfloridian Mar 2014 #31
QuestForSense Mar 2014 #19
DeSwiss Mar 2014 #22
adirondacker Mar 2014 #23
madfloridian Mar 2014 #27
awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #24
Oilwellian Mar 2014 #25
madfloridian Mar 2014 #35
madfloridian Mar 2014 #26
mvd Mar 2014 #28
pragmatic_dem Mar 2014 #29
mvd Mar 2014 #30
madfloridian Mar 2014 #32
mvd Mar 2014 #33
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #36
madfloridian Mar 2014 #39
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #47
Maedhros Mar 2014 #72
JDPriestly Mar 2014 #76
Maedhros Mar 2014 #89
mvd Mar 2014 #63
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #73
mvd Mar 2014 #86
FloriTexan Mar 2014 #38
Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #40
ProSense Mar 2014 #41
theboss Mar 2014 #50
ProSense Mar 2014 #71
madfloridian Mar 2014 #42
L0oniX Mar 2014 #43
G_j Mar 2014 #44
laserhaas Mar 2014 #46
me b zola Mar 2014 #49
Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #51
Kermitt Gribble Mar 2014 #52
FiveGoodMen Mar 2014 #68
xchrom Mar 2014 #53
Enthusiast Mar 2014 #54
bvar22 Mar 2014 #55
ReRe Mar 2014 #98
Tippy Mar 2014 #57
nxylas Mar 2014 #60
madfloridian Mar 2014 #64
blackspade Mar 2014 #61
sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #66
swilton Mar 2014 #67
Phlem Mar 2014 #69
Revanchist Mar 2014 #70
dotymed Mar 2014 #77
bobduca Mar 2014 #97
Doctor_J Mar 2014 #78
dreamnightwind Mar 2014 #79
truedelphi Mar 2014 #81
leftstreet Mar 2014 #83
Laelth Mar 2014 #85
2banon Mar 2014 #87
Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #88
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #92
psiman Mar 2014 #93
woo me with science Mar 2014 #96
ReRe Mar 2014 #99
Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #100

Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:25 PM

1. thanks for this. k and r

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Response to bbgrunt (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:28 PM

2. I like what else he said in the subject of the post.

"Yes, I think Democrats should stop sucking up to the rich. Leave that to the Republicans."

Amen to that.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:37 PM

65. When you have two political parties

 

that suck up to one constituency you have one political party.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:35 PM

3. HUMONGOUS K & R !!!

 








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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:38 PM

4. k&r. nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:43 PM

5. So, if they disagree with you they're Third Way?

I couldn't read the post, because of your automatic prejudice.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:47 PM

7. Perfect example.

Thanks.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:07 AM

20. And that's not what the OP or Markos said or even inferred

At least have the courtesy to read the reply at Politico before making accusations.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:09 AM

21. Are you suggesting that those who call themselves Third Way are actually lying and are not really

Third Way?

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:15 AM

34. Not necessarily, most who disagree with economic populism and favor the financial elite

Are Republicans, only purchased politicians that wear a (D) to get elected but are Republicans at heart appear to join, are favored, and provided with talking points by the third way.

For more info, go to their conservative corporate funded propaganda tank at thirdway .org

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:48 PM

56. Do you have any idea what's going on? nt

 

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:50 PM

58. You are the perfect example.

 

Thank you for your post!

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:52 PM

59. Well maybe you should have read the post...

Because if you had read it you would know it was not just referring to people who disagree, it was referring to the co-founders of an organization they named Third Way. Before you accuse others of automatic prejudice you should probably make sure you are not the one being prejudiced.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:24 PM

62. no, they're third way because they fucking belong to Third Way..

are you fucking shitting me?!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:45 PM

6. "Two Wall Street Parties" Succinct

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Response to bobduca (Reply #6)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:45 AM

37. Good choice of title.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:50 PM

8. 3rd way = republican nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:15 AM

12. ^ that right there +1000

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:56 PM

82. +1

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:06 AM

9. "We don't need two Wall Street parties..."

That is a fact...but that is what we have because the money is good.
K&R

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Response to zeemike (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:12 PM

48. Yep, it pays very well.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:10 PM

101. especially if there is a return from both parties on your

Wall Street investment into backing both parties

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:07 AM

10. That's gonna leave a mark.

Turd Way corporate toadies have been handed their asses.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:13 AM

11. It isn't about throwing people out of the tent. Is it about the tent having a purpose.

 

Last edited Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:40 PM - Edit history (1)

When people who share few of our values sneak (or shove their way) into the tent, that makes the whole enterprise lose focus and message. And this is EXACTLY what they want to accomplish, straight up.

We should respond, not just with this excellent rebuttal, but with a clear statement of our principles. Real Democrats may not agree on every policy matter, but we should be able to succinctly state the 10 most important principles Democrats are willing to fight for. If we cannot do that, the tent is too damned big.

We need the progressive equivalent of the Contract with America (or Martin Lither's theses for that matter). We need to tell people exactly what they are buying if they vote for Democrats. A big part of our present problem results from the fact that Obama never said much about what he would do, other than hope, change, and yes we can. That worked for him personally, but it sucked for the Party. To win a party victory, we need to be a lot more clear about what we stand for and what we will fight for if America gives us a majority to work with.

Let me mention a few that should be on that list in some form:

- An end to the unlimited data collection by the NSA, and real laws, not just Presidential orders, that include protections of the peoples' privacy as an inherent part of any data collection

- No reduction in social security benefits, period.

- Elimination of the loopholes that allow our most profitable corporations to pay no taxes. Not just that, but a return to the situation of 50 years ago where corporations and the wealthy paid their fair share of the cost of having a modern society.

- Elimination of incentives to move jobs overseas, new incentives for creation of jobs employing Americans, elimination of work visas in any industry where there are unemployed Americans qualified to do those jobs

- Completion of the work to get health care coverage for all Americans

- Solid goals for carbon reduction and a move to a renewable energy economy

+++Edited to include one of the most important ones I can't believe I left off+++

- Cut food stamp usage and other public assistance in half, not by cruel austerity, but by ensuring every full-time worker makes a living wage above the poverty level.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:42 AM

16. Very thoughtful post.

Thanks.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:56 AM

45. I'm all for this excellent list of Democrat principles posted by BlueStreak.n/t

"To win a party victory, we need to be a lot more clear about what we stand for and what we will fight for if America gives us a majority to work with.

Let me mention a few that should be on that list in some form:

- An end to the unlimited data collection by the NSA, and real laws, not just Presidential orders, that include protections of the peoples' privacy as an inherent part of any data collection

- No reduction in social security benefits, period.

- Elimination of the loopholes that allow our most profitable corporations to pay no taxes. Not just that, but a return to the situation of 50 years ago where cor"porations and the wealthy paid their fair share of the cost of having a modern society.

- Elimination of incentives to move jobs overseas, new incentives for creation of jobs employing Americans, elimination of work visas in any industry where there are unemployed Americans qualified to do those jobs

- Completion of the work to get health care coverage for all Americans

- Solid goals for carbon reduction and a move to a renewable energy economy

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:41 PM

74. Agreed 100%

 

.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:51 PM

75. Excellent!

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:41 PM

80. Wonderful work on your part.

Thanks for taking the time to put this up here.

Can I add to other goals we need -

One - putting the brakes on the rush to privatize our educational system. The experts that are advising the public on the situation do not examine one crucial ingredient in the mix of "Why kids in other countries do better than American kids."

This important factor is the job factor - when kids whose parents include two parents with Masters' degrees or PhD's realize that all the education was for naught, as the research labs are now overseas, why should they tackle difficult subjects like math and science?

Two - the absolute need to return the jobs to the USA. I repeatedly hear that it would cost too much to bring manufacturing jobs back to the USA. However, many jobs we are losing are in the data entry field. And in the customer service ends of things.

As a taxpayer, I am astounded that the jobs available through America's private educational loan company, Sallie Mae, are now handled by third world people. How can "our" government expect people to pay off their student loans, when even the damn student loan agency is not hiring Americans?

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:07 PM

84. Nice post, I would also tell the 3rd way people that our tent is for 99% of the people,

if you aren't comfortable there perhaps the reason is you are in the wrong tent.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:58 PM

90. Gee, that sounds familiar

Here maybe:
http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform

Maybe someone should send a copy to the Third Way folks. I many others should take a look as well.

If they go against the party platform, they should be booted from the tent.

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #90)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:07 PM

91. With respect, a 32-page white paper is not the same as a list of core principles

 

It just doesn't have the impact and too much is lost by all the weasel-wording that goes into negotiating the platform. It is so watered down that nobody gives it any attention. A simple one-page list of the things that just about all Democrats (and Americans in general) can agree on, which draws sharp contrast with the Republicans, would have much greater impact.

Obama came into office with big electoral college numbers, but he couldn't point to any real mandate because he never really said much of anything that he was really going to do. He made various comments along the way, but never really offered a succinct plan to the people, ergo no mandate for implementing that plan. And the bigger problem is that the Senators and Congressmen don't have any clear message for the people.

This is modern political science. The beltway goofs think that the best way to get elected is to be vague about everything and just be really good at slandering your opponents. That may be the best way to win, but it is not the best way to govern because nobody has a mandate that is acknowledged widely.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:43 PM

94. Beautiful post.



And need to add one more that I consider the most important one of all:

A relentless focus on eliminating corruption of our politics by corporate money through

*public funding of elections
*wresting control of debates and balloting from the two corporate parties
*reform of lobbying (which is increasingly corrupt and non-transparent)
*eliminating the revolving door between government and Wall Street jobs that reward corruption beyond our politicians' wildest dreams.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #94)


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:18 AM

13. well stated

Thank you for standing up to these guys. Someone with a loud voice needed to say this.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:18 AM

14. K&R...

...it's about time somebody of stature told off these third way assholes.

Populism is indeed popular, and geez, third-wayers, I wonder why?

BTW - don't like the language? Sorry, but when it comes to disingenuous schlubs like the Third-Way Corporatist Crowd, I call spades, spades. Looks like 'em, sounds like 'em, smells like 'em - that's what they are.

Assholes.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:28 AM

15. k&r thanks for posting. nm

 

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:43 AM

17. An excellent finish UP the Third Way!

"...Given America’s pressing economic problems, it is clear to the vast majority of Democrats that Wall Street isn’t part of the solution, it’s part of the problem. And a Democratic group that relentlessly promotes Wall Street’s agenda is as welcome among the progressive base as cholera.

Bennett and Kessler are right about one thing, however. The Democratic tent isn’t big enough for those who privilege the wants of Wall Street over the needs of working Americans."

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:03 AM

18. fabulous!! for far too long - a tiny fringe has been representing mainstream Democrats as the fringe

The days of them being able to do that without being laughed off the stage are finally and rapidly coming to a close

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:43 AM

31. I agree.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:04 AM

19. Of all people to attack, Third Way goes after the one with the most integrity.

Dumb.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:10 AM

22. ''If you’re genuinely a Democrat.''

 

- But they aren't. They never were. Bill Clinton ain't . Hillary Clinton ain't. Neither is President Obama. He actually had the cojones (or misfortune) of having said so himself. I suppose one could argue that it was inevitable since the Republicans stopped making liberals and moderates that the Democrats would take up their slack for them.......



K&R

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:10 AM

23. Markos doesn't sound as republican as some suggested on DU just days ago. Hmmm.

Thanks for posting Mad!

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Response to adirondacker (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:29 AM

27. He's not at all.

In many ways he's been a whipping boy for the right wing of the party. He's had a lot of views at times I disagree with, but overall he's outspoken for liberal rights.

This is several times now the Third Way has had op eds bashing liberals.....it's not working out too well for them anymore.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:19 AM

24. We don't need it

 

but that's what we have.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:20 AM

25. Refreshing and hopeful

Kos reaches a huge crowd.

K&R

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:25 AM

35. Yes, he does.

I think it was well said.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:26 AM

26. From Page 2 of his response....wow!

Third Way’s and its “centrist” allies have spent decades building a Beltway elitist consensus on the need to slash the safety net. It must tear them up seeing all that hard work evaporate over the span of a few years—with their economic ideas now on the party fringe, they have nothing left to do but cry persecution.

But Third Way’s attacks on me and my fellow progressives have never been about tolerance for disagreement—it’s always been about policy. And they’re losing the argument, now more than ever. Given America’s pressing economic problems, it is clear to the vast majority of Democrats that Wall Street isn’t part of the solution, it’s part of the problem. And a Democratic group that relentlessly promotes Wall Street’s agenda is as welcome among the progressive base as cholera.


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Response to madfloridian (Original post)


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:32 AM

29. This 3rd way shit has got to go, even more destructive to workers/families than DLC...

 

the problem is Republicans have moved the game so far to the right, every carpet bagging motherfker is going to try to fill in the vacuum.

Third way is anti-family, anti-worker, anti-American. They are the platinum class, preferred citizen aholes that fly first class and bitch about the poor riding in economy class (stewardess, I think that person in our restroom is from economy class, can you see to it that they are punished? There's a dear girl...).

The 3rd way will slit your throat to make an extra dime and then charge you for the dry cleaning bill as they bleed you out.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:43 AM

30. K&R

More hard hitting article than I expected from Markos. Very good.

I do feel for progressive red state Democrats though. It's either support a Democrat who goes against his/her party on major issues or let a right winger take office. I still prefer the Democrat, but I am not happy with Senators like Pryor who go further than needed in the right wing direction. Wish they could get good primary challengers.

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Response to mvd (Reply #30)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:48 AM

32. We need to remember what happens....

you have two candidates basically running on the same things. All too often the one who takes the most powerful stand will win. Or as Truman put it....A real Republican will be likely beat a Democrat acting like one.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:51 AM

33. Yep, I agree

What makes people like Pryor think they will be stronger really often makes them weaker. Running from the President and not offering much of a choice is just counter productive for any Democrat.

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Response to mvd (Reply #30)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:28 AM

36. I don't really accept that argument

 

Last edited Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:41 PM - Edit history (2)

Yes, I agree that the country is not monolithic and we have to be willing to accept some variation in some specific areas. But the fact is that in EVERY CORNER OF THIS COUNTRY, majorities agree with most of our bedrock principles. Tell me what state has a majority against these things (OK, maybe I'll concede Utah, but I'm not even sure about that.):

- An end to the unlimited data collection by the NSA, and real laws, not just Presidential orders, that include protections of the peoples' privacy as an inherent part of any data collection

- No reduction in social security benefits, period.

- Elimination of the loopholes that allow our most profitable corporations to pay no taxes. Not just that, but a return to the situation of 50 years ago where corporations and the wealthy paid their fair share of the cost of having a modern society.

- Elimination of incentives to move jobs overseas, new incentives for creation of jobs employing Americans, elimination of work visas in any industry where there are unemployed Americans qualified to do those jobs

- Completion of the work to get health care coverage for all Americans

- Solid goals for carbon reduction and a move to a renewable energy economy

+++Edited to include one of the most important ones I can't believe I left off+++

- Cut food stamp usage and other public assistance in half, not by cruel austerity, but by ensuring every full-time worker makes a living wage above the poverty level.


It truly is a messaging problem more than the idea that people are too conservative to elect a real Democrat. Most of them have never had the opportunity to vote for a real Democrat in their entire lives. THAT is what needs to change.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:57 AM

39. "Most of them have never had the opportunity to vote for a real Democrat in their entire lives"

So true. Sounds a lot like my area of Florida.

Good post. It IS in great part a messaging problem. And a problem of fearing to be outspoken on issues.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #39)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:36 PM

47. It is a meessaging problem and it is a CANDIDATE problem

 

Kos is right that today we have more Senators that uphold those values, and that is progress. Nonetheless, I don't think the above list is a very tough standard for any real Democrat, yet more than half the sitting Dem senators couldn't sign on to those points today, even with the broadly inclusive working I gave it.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:31 PM

72. Kos' guiding directive has always been:

 

"More and better Democrats."

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #39)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:05 PM

76. Think conservative talk radio. How do we get effective progressive voices into the mix?

That's the big missaging question. To attract advertisers, we have to show that listeners are progressive. But that is hard to do because really effective progressive voices are not given the chance to build a listener base. Thom Hartmann is great, but not heard in enough of the country.

I support Pacifica. And when it was on the air, I listened regularly to Air America. Where do we get the money and the means to make a second try similar to Air America work?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #76)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:55 PM

89. The reason right-wing talk radio is effective is because the Republican's target demographic

 

listens to AM radio. I'm not sure that the same thing will work for liberal voters, because they tend to be a) younger and b) better educated than their conservative counterparts and talk radio isn't a part of their media experience.

Even blogs and forums are old hat - the votes we need to get to the polls subsist on Reddit, Twitter and Instagram.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:29 PM

63. Good post

Yes, I believe even conservative districts might go left if we had the right messaging. Too often we give a less crazy variation on Repuke ideas. Part of that is our Party thinking progressive candidates don't win, but I never believed that. It's the candidate and message, not the ideas. Now I concede that this messaging may not have immediate effect in red districts, but we have to work on it.

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Response to mvd (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:35 PM

73. It may have an IMMEDIATE effect. We really should try.

 

I understand that a lot of folks have voted a certain way their whole lives and they may not change overnight. But we don't have to win all of them over in the first cycle. Many districts can be won if we just change 10% of the minds out there. That is a tall order, but I submit that the first step is in telling them what they get if they vote for a Democrat. Who can answer that question today? I cannot. Dems act like a bunch of free agents, meandering here and there with no purpose.

If we could get agreement that the whole party would run on these simple messages, that could be powerful. I don't see how it could possibly lose any votes and it certainly would gain some. The real problem is that the people in charge of the Dem Party really don't want these things very badly. They are happy with the status quo where they grandstand a little here and there but don't ever hurt the Moneyed Elite [tm], so they are always in a position to ensure a rich flow of campaign funds.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #73)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:46 PM

86. Sadly I agree with you

Our official policies too often nip at the heels of the establishment rather than changing it.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:51 AM

38. K&R nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:12 AM

40. When I was a kid, Third Way types were called 'Reagan Democrats' because

 

they claimed to be Democrats but voted for Republicans like Ronald Wilson Reagan in huge numbers, only to become a bit embarrassed about the bigoted and ignorant social attitudes in their new Party so they became 'DLC' and later Third Way. They are the most destructive force in our Party.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:27 AM

41. Kos is being

Furthermore, the notion that Daily Kos and I are intolerant toward moderate Democrats just doesn’t square with the facts. We’ve raised millions of dollars and generated on-the-ground activism for moderate Democratic candidates such as Jon Tester in Montana, Jim Webb in Virginia, Mark Begich in Alaska, Jack Conway in Kentucky and Jim Martin in Georgia. No liberal or progressive would categorize a single one of those candidates as anything other than moderate, yet our community backed them with significant financial resources. The Senate races in Kentucky and Georgia will be getting plenty of love this year despite featuring moderate Democrats on the ballot. We’ve backed similar moderates at the House and state level for more than a decade

<...>

Let me put it plainly: We aren’t the Tea Party, undermining our party’s electoral chances by nominating fringe candidates like Christine O’Donnell, Richard Mourdock, Sharron Angle, Todd Akin and Linda McMahon. Quite the contrary, in fact. We support Democrats of all flavors so long as they support basic Democratic values and their fellow Democrats. Can Third Way say the same, or point to anything remotely similar they’ve accomplished on behalf of Sens. Sherrod Brown, Jeff Merkley or (ahem) Elizabeth Warren?

...realistic. Jim Webb turned out to be a big friggin disappointment. I'm glad he's gone. The problem is this: "undermining our party’s electoral chances."

Where does one draw the line? People can pick and choose which Democrats they will support. Congressional Democrats are also focused on keeping the Senate in Democratic hands. Then you get an e-mail from Elizabeth Warren fundraising for Mark Pryor. I despise Mark Pryor more than even Mary Landrieu. He's likely to lose without grassroots support. He would never get a penny from me.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:26 PM

50. You pick the most liberal Democrat who can win

 

I don't see why this is so hard. That person is going to look a lot different in Missouri than in Massachusetts.

I don't get why this is so hard.

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Response to theboss (Reply #50)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:29 PM

71. It's not "hard"

Is Mark Pryor "the most liberal Democrat who can win" in Arkansas? Who decides?

I mean, your comment missed the point altogether.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:30 AM

42. Ha. In his response at DKos to Third Way he puts a pic of Elizabeth Warren and himself.

Here's where I punch back at Third Way in Politico



By the way, my original version said that "25 of 29 board members" were Wall Street types. Politico fact-checked me and, well, I like 27 of 29 even better. I somehow missed a couple.

....And so it goes, for over 1,000 words. On the plus side, for the Third Way dudes, Politico apparently couldn't find a goofy looking picture of them to illustrate the piece. So for them, at least there's that!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:32 AM

43. BIG K & R

 

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:34 AM

44. K&R!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 12:22 PM

46. K&R While Markos can be a bit of a putz sometimes. This discussion nails proverbial head (aches).

 

We can't have "feigning" Democrats ramrod U.S. into the GOP box.

Just hope Kos realizes he has "feigns" inside his upper ranks too;
and purges that realm of such in short order.

K&R -

United We Stand

Against the realm "thems"

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:20 PM

49. K&R

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:30 PM

51. K&R

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:37 PM

52. "folding up the big tent"

I remember seeing that phrase used on DU a few days ago - must have been distributed with the new talking points. And, of course, we always see the "purity tests" accusation.

In my opinion, it is time to "fold up the big tent". The Third Way and the resulting influx of republicans has caused our Party to move way too far to the right.

K&R

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Response to Kermitt Gribble (Reply #52)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:01 PM

68. Yup.

Agree that we've seen too much of that "purity" riff on DU.

Agree that the big tent has done too much harm.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:41 PM

53. du rec.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:45 PM

54. Come on, people! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

Third Way is a cancer on the Democratic Party.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:48 PM

55. DURec.....and a KMA to the Corporatist Republicans masquerading as 3rd Way.

3rd Way Water Carriers pull that "Purity" bullshit here all the time.

Paul Wellstone was warning us about the 3rd Way/DLC 12 years ago:

[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #55)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:06 PM

98. Long live the memory of Paul Wellstone...

... and would that we all stand up and speak truth to power like he did, every day for the rest of our lives. Amen!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:49 PM

57. K&R

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:58 PM

60. One small correction

The Turd Way attack was actually published on the 19th. It would be hard for Markos to respond to an attack that won't be published until tomorrow!

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Response to nxylas (Reply #60)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:32 PM

64. .....

Thanks for the heads up...I edited.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:20 PM

61. Ka-Pow!

Thanks for posting!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:49 PM

66. Were I grading

 

the Third Way op ed, I would have red penciled their questionable use of the word "moderate" at least once in 5 of their 11 paragraphs. Upon reading it, one might have gotten the impression that all democrats are either liberal or moderate. Imagine that.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 02:51 PM

67. BIG K&R

 

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:24 PM

69. So nice to finally hear this.

The third way has got to disappear completely. Been on board with that since forever. Hopefully many of it's supporters here in DU get the message.

It's really sad when, in the middle of taking a republican troll out to the woodshed, some here defend them unknowingly (just letting their color show through I guess), and those personalities do have an affect on the rest of us in this forum.

Yes it happens, I have it bookmarked.

Moderates and the Third Way, 2 glaring zits (couldn't post what I was thinking) on our party.



-p

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 03:24 PM

70. What does this remind me of? Oh yeah:

I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating.
Boss Tweed

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 04:19 PM

77. It should be..


Democratic Party- only Progressives need apply.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #77)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:01 PM

97. Better yet "No fifth columnists need apply"

Don't vote for secret republicans.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:31 PM

78. We won't HAVE two Wall Street parties. If the (D) continue to pander to Wall St, it will disappear

 

as seen since 2009.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:34 PM

79. K & R

Excellent to see this, we need to reclaim our party. At this point it basically stands for slightly moderated versions of Republican ideas.

Actual Democratic ideas are off the table, because of the monied interests behind our party, and because, even as insane and against the interests of the average American as today's Republican Party is, this corporate version of the Democratic Party, running on slogans such as we're not as bad as the other party, can't hide that it's become a disingenuous happy face slapped onto rich people increasing their profit margins.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:53 PM

81. K & R. Facebook cartoon about the broken political system:


Although it is Parliament that is portrayed, the US Congress could easily be substituted.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=718090028241404&set=a.225374777512934.72263.124471347603278&type=1&theater

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 05:58 PM

83. DURec

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 06:10 PM

85. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 07:32 PM

87. Thanks for this great post madfloridian..

 

You know, I've been waiting 14 long years to see this huge wave of broad understanding of who and what THIRD WAY is all about, and why at the minimum, their sphere of influence must be marginalized and soundly discredited.

It fills my heart with great joy to hear this rallying cry, finally at long last. And it goes a long way to restoring some measurement of faith, hope and optimism for the future.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:10 PM

88. Right on!

"If you’re genuinely a Democrat, you have to admit that a 55-seat caucus reinforced with strong progressive voices is objectively preferable to a 49-seat caucus packed with corporatist Democrats who voted for the disastrous Iraq war and George W. Bush’s budget-busting tax cuts. If you’re genuinely a Democrat."

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:23 PM

92. "The fact that the party is in the midst of a dramatic reorientation...

 

toward a new progressive populism."

"If you’re genuinely a Democrat."

The griping going on here between the Third Wayers and Warren Wing.

It's being played out on DU. That's what I was saying a couple nights ago. I was being told that I was making up my friends vs enemies characterization of DU. Those people who were saying that were just being argumentative because they didn't like what I was saying. That, or they haven't been around much lately and participated in the quarreling. But mostly the former. I was just reporting what I see, and that's why I dug my heals in.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:31 PM

93. Way to go, Markos!

 


He is way wicked smarter than your typical kossack, more's the pity.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 10:56 PM

96. Huge, huge, K&R. How refreshing, and what a hopeful sign,

to see the Third Way being called out for what it really is:

a deliberate, planned, corporate-bankrolled infiltration of the party for the purpose of hijacking it to serve corporate interests rather than the interests of the people.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Mar 25, 2014, 11:26 PM

99. K&R

Fuck Politico. And fuck the DLC (Democratic Leadership Conference) and all of their children (ThirdWayers, et. al) all Republicans in sheep's clothing who rode in and attempted to divide and conquer the Democratic Party. Go back where you came from. And we need to put something in the platform that prevents such an attempt to never again be made, much less almost succeed. Thanks for the OP, mf. Markos hit the problem right in the gut.
Now, all I want is an non-DLC-blessed DEMOCRATIC candidate for the 2016 election.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 01:41 PM

100. knr

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