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Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:31 AM

 

My wife will get her meds

Those of you who suggested we go through the drug company directly were bang-on correct; our insurance company is still futzing around, but the drug company has hooked us up for enough time to get the issue permanently resolved.



Thanks for all your (mostly) kid words and advice.

Still hyper-pissed.

But my wife will get her medication.

And that is enough for today.

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Reply My wife will get her meds (Original post)
WilliamPitt Mar 2014 OP
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Autumn Mar 2014 #6
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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:33 AM

1. Great news....

..... and DUers helping DUers works again!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:33 AM

2. I'm so glad, will. You both must be tremendously relieved.

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:34 AM

3. Glad to hear

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:35 AM

4. What a relief. K&R

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:35 AM

5. Wonderful news!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:36 AM

6. I'm so glad that the drug company is going to help your wife with her meds.

But it does suck to have to jump through hoops.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:37 AM

11. Exactly, no one should have to jump through hoops to get life-saving meds.

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:40 AM

16. A sick woman on her own with the same disease and no one to care

enough to do the leg work would be in serious trouble. It should not be this way Kitty.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:30 PM

106. +1. The drug companies *count* on this. Every person who gives up

in despair before managing to break through the layers of red tape and seemingly insurmountable obstacles represents profit to those greedy jerks.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #106)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:45 PM

159. The insurance cos, not the drug cos

The drug cos don't make a dime if patients can't get their medicine.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #159)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:26 PM

179. Yes, of course. I was being sloppy in my phrasing. I had "drugs" on my mind because

that is what Will's wife needed and couldn't get, so I conflated "drugs" and "insurance companies" to produce nonsense. Thanks for the correction.

This past weekend I kept doing something similar when trying to warn a friend that exposed fiberglass insulation in his basement could be dangerous to his cat. I KNOW that the insulation is fiberglass, but because in my mind the dangers of insulation are closely connected to the reasons why asbestos was outlawed in insulation, I kept referring to the insulation as asbestos rather than fiberglass--repeatedly, despite being corrected each time by my friend!

I have a similar issue when referring to or even thinking about my daughter and my youngest sister. Obviously memories about them are stored close together in my braine or tightly intertwined in some way, because I continually refer to them by the other's name AND by the wrong label (sister vs. daughter). Even more bizarre: I sometimes ask about or attempt to reference with one of them something that is known only to the other one! I momentarily forget that my 32-year-old daughter doesn't share the childhood memories I share with my 59-year-old sister.

I have long been interested in neuroscience, and this sort of cross-connection of memories and conflation of references to words or concepts that are not linked to each other, but that are independently linked to a third, separate though related, concept, strikes me as a clue to how memories are encoded in the brain. I wonder how much research is focused on such conflations.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:28 AM

69. Access to health care should not

have to rely on whose squeaky wheel is loudest - or the largesse of drug companies (who, with their obscene profits, can well afford the charity) - or whether or not an individual has the time, ability, and assistance to discover these narrow avenues of relief.

Will, I'm delighted that your wife has access to her medications, but we as a nation simply cannot ethically afford to accept this kind of individual "fix" each time an individual in need runs up against the wall of for-profit health "care".

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #69)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:25 PM

103. This is not about "access"

 

The drug is right there in the pharmacy. She has a prescription for it. It is quite accessible.

It's about paying.

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Response to theboss (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:37 PM

108. If you cannot afford a medical treatment,

you cannot access it.

In this sense, the word access means the right or ability to benefit from something that is available. I am surprised you are unfamiliar with this usage of the term - it is quite common.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #108)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:57 PM

114. I work in healthcare and here is the over-riding question regarding it:

 

How do we pay for all this shit?

Having actually seen the invoices for countless medical products, I can tell you that a lot of the stuff that we now consider essential (put in many cases did not exist 25 years ago), is really really really really really really expensive.

It goes without saying that a purely capitalistic model of you buy what you can afford is utterly immoral.

But, on the other end of the spectrum, you can't eliminate scarcity. You can't make everything available at no cost for everyone.

I tend to shudder when someone says, "No one should be denied any of this......." because I know - fundamentally - that everyone having access to everything is an impossibility. It simply is. There aren't enough healthcare professionals on earth and if there were, there is not enough money.

I'll give you a practical example from own career: Silver bandages. Every healthcare provider in the universe right now is scared out of their minds over antibiotic resistant bacteria. Practically every hospital has had a crisis of some kind regarding either MRSA or C-dif or some other nasty hospital-acquired infection that is a nightmare to treat.

There are ways to greatly limit these problems, but they are incredibly expensive.

One of the products that is great is Silver bandages. So...shouldn't we use these all the time? Yes...if you a) don't mind paying $33 for a Band-Aid and b) don't mind not having silver in 100 years. So...we...wait for it...ration the bandages. Use them only in certain cases in certain patient populations. Kind of like a...wait for it...formulary.


Dun....dun.....duuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.........................

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Response to theboss (Reply #114)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:52 PM

146. Well, I'm sorry

that the phrase "no one should be denied any of this" makes you shudder, but don't see how your argument is applicable to what I said - since I didn't say that in any way.
Perhaps you have me confused with another poster?

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Response to theboss (Reply #114)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 05:31 AM

304. Given that we already pay twice per capita what other developed countries pay--

--paying isn't a problem. Just cut insurance companies out of the deal and regulate prices like those other places do. Dennis Kucinich once said "We are already paying for universal health care, we just aren't getting it."

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Response to theboss (Reply #114)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 11:42 AM

319. This post is sad

It costs tooo much how dare you expect to be provided with care? This is a policy you promote?

Do you know how hardened and callous you sound?

I will die on my own without a hospital billing me for it thanks to people like you.

Have a nice day. I hope you sleep well at night. And that the specter of catastrophic illness never crosses your threshhold to harm you or those you hold dear because you can't afford a lousy bandaid.

Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch!

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #319)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:33 PM

330. Do you think that every person should be provided with whatever care they want regardless of cost?

 

I think healthcare should be based on need not want. (Which is actually a pretty Marxist thought, come to think of it). I just know from the inside that if every person was treated with the most expensive treatment available you may see a marginal at best increase in results with a catastrophic increase in costs.

(And - frankly - after working in or with hospitals for 15 years, my belief is that I will die in a hospital, it will be the hospital's fault, and they will screw up the bill to my wife).

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Response to theboss (Reply #330)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:02 PM

348. You are the death panel personified by your own words

You are too cynical to be trusted with my healthcare needs -- way too cynical.

Is it possible you have given up the struggle and are too burned out to bother anymore? I hope you find another career as you seem powerless to do much to improve your attitude. I am not trying to be mean or anything, it just seems like you should be unhappy given your perception of the state of healthcare in the US.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #348)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 08:55 AM

363. So, that's a "yes"

 

Thanks.

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Response to theboss (Reply #363)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:39 PM

365. Yes you are a burned out cynical healthcare provider

That was your question, right?

Because you think you are qualified to determine who gets care or not. I hope no one I care about ever faces you trying to deny them access to care because of your awful notion that you get to decide who gets life saving care or not.

I wouldn't trust you to treat a hangnail with your attitude. I grew up with universal healthcare provided by the US military. I know what is and is not possible. The medical personnel in the military saved lives. They did not ask for cash up front. They do not send in people like you to bill people $800 for saline solution in an IV. They do not hover like vultures over sick people's beds with a ream of paperwork to be filled out, with plans to send people home before they are well, their eye on the next deep pocket in line.

Hospitals are making huge profits but can't even sterilize the rooms well enough so people don't die of infections related to their stay in these institutionalized death factories.

37th in line for best healthcare according to Doctors Without Borders. What the hell do we have to brag about? And whose fault is it? Largely people like you who side with crooked insurance, big pharma, and the Catfood Commission.

And to answer your question, yes, I believe that every penny deducted from my pay stub should entitle me to needed lifesaving medical care on demand. It entitles me to expect that you do not make an exorbitant profit off my misery. Universal affordable healthcare is a human right. It's way more important of a concept worth defending and saving than the bloated insurance industry that has attached itself to the periphery like bloodsucking leeches of old. And the administrators of hospitals with their excessive salaries. The crooked lobbyists, the overcharging and gouging of people at every level, the sense of power, the rush over having the ability to make life and death decisions about people's lives.

Yes, yes, yes, I think it is criminal and should end. A state that cannot provide for the welfare of its citizens at this basic level has no inherent right to exist.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:39 AM

14. +1 No one should have this added burden. n/t

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:36 AM

7. Excellent news!

My thoughts are with you and your family.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:36 AM

8. A journalist might take this as a great topic for an article- I'd like to know how

 

the system could be changed most immediately… which means fixed with the system we have, not wishing for Single Payer which we don't have.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:42 AM

22. Well, he got the meds by going around the insurance company. Which would be single payer, sort of.

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:48 AM

28. Not really ...

 

it's more like free healthcare.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:54 AM

35. Oh, the pharma will take that free medicine cost off of whatever taxes it pays..."free" is kind of

 

relative. Hopefully free expensive medicine doesn't have to be reported to the IRS!
But I see what you mean.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:05 AM

43. No they will not. There is nothing to deduct for donated drugs, other

than regular business expenses they have already deducted.

The drug company -- in this particular case, not necessarily other cases -- deserves some good PR.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:02 PM

89. Well Free is better than not getting any.

 

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Response to JEB (Reply #89)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:14 PM

95. Don't get me wrong ...

 

I'm all for Free Healthcare (which is unworkable), Government financed Universal Healthcare, Not-For-Profit healthcare ... in that order.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:23 PM

102. The issue is drug costs - plain and simple

 

The issue is not ACA or even the insurance system. The problem is that some drugs are really really expensive (and, frankly, may not be the "life savers" people claim they are.

No system - single payer, Medicare for all, Medicaid for all, NIH-style, etc - is going to be able to give everybody all the free drugs they want, because some drugs are very very expensive.

The drug Will is talking about is around $5K a month. How does that drug become readily available under system unless the cost comes down dramatically?

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Response to theboss (Reply #102)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:52 PM

172. Some drugs are expensive because of the greed. Look at what happened

To the cost of doxycycline. Back in the mid Nineties, it would cost you about $ 30 to $ 45 a month if you were fighting an infection and needed it.

Now that Big Pharma has realized that so many tens of thousands of Americans who need this drug for their battle against Lyme's disease, the cost has sky rocketed. It can cost a person around $ 2,000 a month.

For a drug that is simple to produce.

When the situation with regards to how the government helps subsidize the production costs of many drugs, it is appalling that Americans are forced to pay so much money for their drugs.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #172)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 07:17 AM

307. Pharma is certainly taking advantage of demand.

But I have to wonder about the extent to which they are shifting costs around, i.e., make one drug more expensive in order to keep the cost of other drugs lower. Perhaps this limits an even greater outcry. I don't know.

From pharma's point of view, like that of banks, they will simply not stand for losing money.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:37 AM

9. Glad she's getting her meds.

Our "health care" system still sucks though.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:37 AM

10. god damn mother [email protected]#%ing throw mad used car asshole piece of [email protected]#$^^$!!!

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:55 AM

36. great pic ! nt

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:00 AM

38. Yeah

"My good opinion once lost is lost forever." It really is for the "Fuck you ... you piece of shit used-car salesman" comment. This person is not of interest anymore.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:11 AM

50. "This person is not of interest anymore." Sez the person commenting in that person's thread...

 

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:13 AM

53. Yeah, that struck me as an odd comment to make too.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #50)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 03:33 PM

356. Exactly my thought also! n/t

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Response to betsuni (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:19 AM

58. I understand your response - yet - let me say

I prefer WP's honesty and the fact he has a temper to lose. When furious like that I'm not interested in reading a milque toast's angry outburst
You will learn - if you have not already - that some of the most important and well thought out posts come from this very DU member, we would not be as well rounded without him. He has earned my trusting his praise, and his anger.

And a hearty welcome to you!

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Response to Mira (Reply #58)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:10 PM

92. I sure don't trust his anger



and he's only earned my distrust.



People with a natural ability to turn a phrase should take care with that ability.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #92)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:25 PM

207. Well I suggest you put him on ignore, unless you relish the self righteousness of telling

 

us about your distrust. No one is asking you to accept him or his rantings, but under the circumstances I would hope you might cut him some slack.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #207)


Response to Post removed (Reply #233)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:47 PM

257. He is currently a member of DU. He should be treated with respect until he is no longer a member.

 

It's easy to put him on ignore if you dont like him. But to continue to disparage him is not very progressive.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #257)


Response to Post removed (Reply #269)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:08 PM

275. Then you have no business posting on a message board for "politically liberal" posters.

 

Everyone here should be treated with respect.

Calling WilliamPitt a prick is really low. Name calling is just childish.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #275)


Response to Post removed (Reply #285)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:26 AM

291. Of course you totally missed my point. I dont always agree with Will Pitt, and I thought his

 

rant was too strong (but I was willing to give some leeway because of his situation), but my point is that all DU members should be treated with respect. That's what "politically liberal" people do.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #291)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:05 AM

300. I agree DU members should be treated with respect.

Not that it always happens.

Yet I have a question for you?

DU members should be treated with respect. That's what "politically liberal" people do.


So it is okay to say to the Democratic President on Democratic Underground "Fuck You" "you piece of shit used car salesman". Is this what "liberal" people do?

I know Barack Obama is not a member of DU, However he is our Democratic President. It's not like you have to agree with him, yet does he not deserve some respect?

Please do not tell me one is okay and the other is not.

There are other people on DU that are hurting, it's not just about Will. Do you see them calling out the President in such a crass way?

BTW, he did not stop at that post, he is doubling down now. After he got the meds for his wife he continues. That's just sad rhett.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #275)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:25 AM

290. He certainly didn't treat DU or the President with respect now did he? nt

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:10 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to brush (Reply #290)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:27 AM

292. Sorry, but I have no idea what that means. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #292)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:10 AM

301. Try it now. There were a couple of typos

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #257)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:39 PM

282. He lost ANY respect I had for him....

 

to not admit he was wrong and eat his words is NOT very Progressive of him!

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #92)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:48 PM

258. People should be able to express their justifiable anger when they live in one of the wealthiest

countries in the world that spends obscene amounts of money on war machinery, while depriving the people they CLAIM they are 'protecting' from life saving treatment. Especially when someone finds out their loved one needs medication and in this nation where money appears to be no object for certain priorities, she didn't have it.

The lack of anger is why we cannot what should be a right in this country. They are not afraid of a people who will tolerate anything they do to make the rich richer, even when it is selling their lives to Private Corps for profit.

Health Care should never be for profit. And yes, it can be done, but not while there are people unwilling to fight for it.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #258)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 04:59 AM

303. +1000000000000000000000

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #258)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:09 PM

320. I trust Will Pitt's anger

more than I trust the used car salesman's flashy pitch. Sorry, it is what it is. Why blame Will. We who have lost faith in our president are all Will on this trust issue.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #92)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:33 PM

328. That's probably because you're not one of his sycophants

 

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Response to betsuni (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

265. Sez you.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:19 AM

60. Well played.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:23 PM

101. ?

Will sounds like they are getting the medication DESPITE our current system, not BECAUSE of it

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Response to Skittles (Reply #101)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:09 PM

118. They'd have the same problem before ACA and/or with single payer. This is a formulary

 

problem, which is frustrating, but has an appeals process. It has almost nothing to do with the ACA...except that you have rights of appeal under the ACA you didn't have before.

Pitt's outburst yesterday targeted the wrong people....and once he actually listened to other DUers, he got help.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #118)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:44 PM

144. This issue is specifically about the ACA. Before ACA is irrelevant. n/t

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Response to cui bono (Reply #144)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:52 PM

145. The ACA does not mandate formularies

 

And even if it did, there is no guarantee this drug would be included.

Do you want the ACA to demand that everything be covered at all times for everyone?

Because that would - in fact - be a pathway to insolvency.

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Response to theboss (Reply #145)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:44 AM

293. What I was trying to say was that it's not about comparing before and after ACA

since I was thinking that yes, it should guarantee that the necessary meds are made available.

If that's a pathway to insolvency then bring on single-payer!

But to tell people pre-existing does not matter anymore and let them get a plan and pay for it only to find out they can't get the meds they need is just wrong. It needs to be fixed. What's the point of paying for coverage then? Especially if it's mandated.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #293)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 09:28 AM

312. Saying she can't get meds is wrong.

 

She can get MS meds.

She could not get the meds she had been getting before. And - yes - that is an issue. But it's an issue having to do with health insurance and formularies and is quite common and has NOTHING to do with the ACA.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #293)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:53 PM

346. Formularies are not new.

And anyone on MS meds should know that.

And anyone with MS would have been denied coverage entirely before the ACA - that means nothing would have been covered. Break an arm? Out of luck - no insurance because you had MS and couldn't be covered. Need a heart transplant? Out of luck - no insurance because you had MS and couldn't be covered. Have a baby? Out of luck - no insurance because you had MS and couldn't be covered. Need MS care other than the particular medicine in question? Out of luck - no insurance because you had MS and couldn't be covered.

Get the point? Pre-existing conditions meant zero coverage for any condition - regardless of whether it was related to the pre-existing condition or not. The ACA banned that practice - and now insurance is available including for treatment of the pre-existing condition. I suspect even the particular drug in question is covered by going through the proper procedure. From what has been described in the other threads, it doesn't look to me as if it was.

And, back to the formulary question - that is how prescription coverage has been managed for at least a decade now. Obtaining medication not on the formulary has NOTHING to do with the ACA.

That doesn't mean it is ideal - but it is orders of magnitude better than what we had before the ACA.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #144)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:53 PM

147. PS The ACA is not a health insurance plan

 

I actually think people don't understand that.

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Response to theboss (Reply #147)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:45 AM

294. Of course, but it states what needs to be covered or not.

And set age limits for children etc... so it's not like it's not involved in some policy regulation.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #294)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 09:30 AM

313. Do you want it to have a "Will Pitt's wife" exception?

 

Section 28, subparagraph 18

"Anything she needs, she can get."

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Response to theboss (Reply #313)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:12 PM

321. I do, I want an "average taxpayer who needs meds" clause

Especially for the catastrophic coverage thing. Anything else is bullshit.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #321)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:37 PM

333. That exists

 

Will's wife can get meds under her plan. Not necessarily the meds she always gotten - though that is likely possible if she follows an appeal process.

Will's post created the impression that Anthem said, "Go die, you hag. Hahahahahahaha." That's not what happened.

Look, this is an endlessly frustrating experience. I've gone through it myself, and I deal with it professionally pretty much every day. But mischaracterizing it as a plot between Obama and Anthem to kill people for profit is something out of Sarah Palin's fever dreams.

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Response to theboss (Reply #333)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:57 PM

347. It is called speaking with a "forked tongue" to me

and our president has perfected the language. Or at least he may be viewed this way by many Americans as the new plans unfold and they turn out to be the same as the old plans or worse.

Of course, what do I know? I can see Sarah Palin's house from my house.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #144)


Response to Skittles (Reply #101)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:12 PM

121. What system allows every person to get the $5K a month med of their choice?

 

Because that would be a cool system.

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Response to theboss (Reply #121)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:53 PM

188. see you address the real issue, which was NOT addressed

why our medicine and our health care COSTS SO MUCH

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Response to Skittles (Reply #188)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 09:31 AM

314. That's the discussion we need to have

 

Mineral Man and I both posted threads about this.

We aren't DU celebrities so both died at around 100 posts or so.

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Response to theboss (Reply #314)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:21 PM

323. Celebrities?

What the hell does that even mean? Will Pitt is one of the earliest members of this group. Many of us read his rants before Gore threw in the towel in 2000. We have a history. Daily. We know Will like an old neighbor or coworker. And as a media voice from the left. One who has represented our voices many times -- and well.

And yet, people here act like there is not a person behind the keyboard in their race to be snarky and cruel. Who are you to chastise anyone for caring about Will's wife? To act like it is some sort of fawning celebrity status he has here. He earned his lib creds as far as I am concerned when he stood in Harvard Square and passed out anti-Bush literature, when he spoke against and wrote about Iraq. How dare you act as if his opinions shouldn't matter except that he is a celebrity you envy? What did you do during the Bush years?

Please trot out your vita. Cause you clearly aint the boss of me.

Wow.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:41 PM

155. Great pic +1

There are some DUers who should get credit for having a gift for writing subject lines. They are very talented at the art of link baiting. I know I fall for it.

They could make a good living writing headlines for Buzz Feed. Or whatever the conservative version of Upworthy is.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:38 AM

12. That's awesome!!

 

Any chance you may consider self-deleting that other thread? Not that I am super team sportsy, but I do really hate Repukes and the less ammo they have the better.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:46 AM

26. I found the replies on that thread really really illuminating.

 

Plus, if it gets deleted, there won't be any blue link for all the snide comments to refer back to.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:50 AM

31. So it's more about hyping negativity ...

 

than WP's problem?

Yes ... really, really illuminating!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:55 AM

37. I have seen snide remarks about WP's OP all over DU this morning.

 

THAT is spreading the negativity.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #37)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:04 AM

42. I suspect ...

 

most of the snide comments were/are more about what many (including myself) considered WP's over-the-top, and misdirected, rant about calling out President Obama for something that he (nor his administration) had nothing to do with.

But that said ... was it not you that argued that WP should not self-delete the posts so that you could use some of the comments for (what I suspect will be) later attacks? That was my "hyping negativity" point.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:15 AM

54. You suspect quite wrongly.

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:22 AM

63. Yeah ...

 

Plus, if it gets deleted, there won't be any blue link for all the snide comments to refer back to.


That doesn't mean what that means.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:25 AM

67. Bullshit. You know what you said. nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #67)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:50 PM

187. how the fuck is post 52 a Hide ?

on edit, i'm only replying to this post because it's close to the post 52 itself. this is not directed at the person i am replying to.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:28 PM

249. Shouldn't the main concern have been for the fact that someone's loved one needed medication and

didn't have it? Why on earth would anyone, under those circumstances, be worried about ANYTHING else?

Stunning to see people's priorities frankly.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #249)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:02 PM

270. I completely agree ...

 

re-read the thread.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #37)


Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:27 PM

104. Will deserved all he got and more

 

He mischaracterized the problem from the beginning, criticized the wrong people, acted like he was the only person in history to ever deal with this issue, and basically behaved liked a horse's ass.

And yet, a lot of bright people (like me!!) gave him really good advice that will likely solve the dilemma.

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Response to theboss (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:17 PM

130. Your posts on his actual problem rocked. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #130)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:30 PM

139. Yea....I'm awesome

 

Thanks.

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Response to theboss (Reply #139)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:19 PM

150. Indeed.

But I doubt WP will ever give you or anyone else thanks for helping him.

He'd rather be "pissed".

It's just the way these people are.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #150)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:43 PM

170. "these people"?


"these people"?

what people would that be?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #170)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:56 PM

174. And.....we're off

 

I sometimes read this disputes with Yackety Sax playing the background.

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Response to theboss (Reply #174)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:04 PM

178. are you one of "these people"?

Or am I?

Who are they?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #178)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:50 PM

193. All I know is that it is so good to see old time posters suddenly posting on DU3 again!

 

Glad they came back!

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Response to grasswire (Reply #170)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:44 PM

226. You know, non-conservatives.

 

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Response to theboss (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:20 PM

152. LOL, whining much? n-t

 

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Response to theboss (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:22 PM

153. ....and...it completely characterized how Obama is viewed by the OP and many others

 

just look and all the rec's the original insulting thread garnered.

That original thread was an angry, misdirected outburst for sure, but ACA was mis-used as was the President to further a completely unrelated agenda to (to the problem at hand). The fact that the correction never appeared in the OP on this thread bares that out.

The disease is despicable.....WP's aversion to correction is rotten to it's core.

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Response to theboss (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:45 PM

157. The problem is that people--Will included--get crazy and not thinking straight

when loved ones are being denied health care. It is enough to make you crazy.
You can be so emotionally involved that you lash out at anyone--whether it's the
right person or not.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #157)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:14 AM

288. And the proper response is to correct once you've cooled down. (nt)

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Response to theboss (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:03 PM

164. If I'd served on a jury for the original post,

I might have been persuaded to hide it.

If that had happened, you and others would probably never have had the chance to unravel what was actually going on and offer your invaluable assistance.

So it was very close to being a totally counterproductive OP. Props to you and others for putting that aside and trying to help.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #164)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:51 PM

194. +1

 

nt.

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Response to theboss (Reply #104)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:05 PM

204. Agreed. That OP probably soured me on WP for the foreseeable future.

He displayed the self-centered, uninformed crap we expect out of Rs. And he wonders why the Rs don't get it. Look in the mirror, Will.

Worst of all, his problem WAS SOLVED IN LESS THAN A FUCKING SINGLE DAY!

He owes President Obama a huge apology.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #204)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:37 PM

213. I really like WP but the OP was somewhat disappointing, even understanding his situation. nt

 

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #213)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:19 PM

242. When your mother, wife, husband, sister, child's lives are at stake and you first learn that you

live in a country where you have to jump through hoops even though you are paying for insurance, there is no describing the anger people feel.

Will's reaction was perfectly understandable. No one should be put through that stress especially when they are dealing with someone who is sick.

And he is one of the lucky ones, who was able to navigate the complex system in the end. But I KNOW people who would not be able to do that, in fact I have taken care of a few of them. They don't know how to use a computer, are already sick and tired, some are alone in the world.

Whether this legislation is better than what we had or not, it is still a disgrace that anyone has to deal with this in a country that has billions to spend on wars and war machinery.

There should never be a question in this country as to whether someone gets their medication or not. Not for a second. I've dealt with it on behalf of others, and quite frankly it is sickening and heart breaking..

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #242)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:26 PM

279. I don't disagree with what you say. I disagree with the brunt of the blame being placed at the

 

President instead of the drug companies and the system in place that allows the drug companies to do what they do...the system put in place by our legislators who are owned by the lobbyists.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #242)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 09:34 AM

315. I bet half the people here have had to jump through those hoops at some point

 

Either for themselves or their loved ones.

I was originally denied a necessary surgery in 1989 because it was going to be done by a specialist in Baltimore rather than a random orthopedic surgeon in Pittsburgh. I had to get that approved.

My mother fought breast cancer in 2008. We had to write several letters to get various treatments approved.

You know who I never blamed? Random people that had nothing to do with it.

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Response to theboss (Reply #315)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 03:49 PM

358. People in other developed nations do not have to jump through any hoops to get what IS a RIGHT.

You should not have had to. And so long as we are willing to accept what is unacceptable, the obscene notion that people's Health Care is nothing more than a commodity to be bought and sold in a 'marketplace', that's all we'll get. Some of us respect YOU and your mom as human beings far more than to accept that when facing such incredibly stressful issues, you should have to add the extra worry and distraction of jumping through any hoops.

It all comes down to how we as a society view our most valuable resource, as human beings or as merely a profit making commodity.

Apathy has a tendency to set in when people have been abused over a long period of time. Acceptance, no more awareness of their actual RIGHTS. But people looking in from the outside, watching the abuse, expressing their disbelief helps to jolt some people out of their sense of feeling 'this is all I deserve'.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #358)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 05:31 PM

360. Do you really think no one in Canada has ever been denied something related to healthcare?

 

Seriously?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:38 AM

13. Thanks Obama!

Just kidding. I'm glad for her.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:39 AM

15. Awesome news ! nt

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2014, 05:50 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:40 AM

17. Thank God...good luck to all of you...

...and I think your outburst was understandable, to say the least...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:40 AM

18. Glad to hear it, WilliamPitt!

All the best to you two.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:40 AM

19. Good to hear. Now work on an expedited appeal. See info here...

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:43 AM

24. ^^ A great example of what's best about DU! ^^ You're awesome

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:40 AM

20. That's wonderful!

 

And maybe some have forgotten - all politics is personal, all politics is local. Cheer-leading no matter what is for sports. And, I have noticed, sports teams that get booed get new players and/or new plays, or lose support and go out of business.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:41 AM

21. Thanks for the followup Will. I hope the insurance companies are forced to stop

putting people through the stress you two just went through. This was great news to read first thing in the morning.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:42 AM

23. Glad to hear it Will!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:44 AM

25. That's great news ...

 

So glad your wife will be getting her meds.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:47 AM

27. That's great news, Will.

My insurance's co-pay was so high on a new prescription that I was unable to fill it. My doctor was able to give me samples until he can write a script for something different. This is our third try. The first two meds didn't work.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:48 AM

29. Have you contacted the National MS Society?

I have a friend who told me they helped him in the past.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:49 PM

338. I had someone sort of helping me from the MSAA (Multiple Sclerosis Assn. of America)

She was helping to a point and I called back to ask her for more help.

Much to my surprise, I was told that "She is no longer here".

Makes me wonder who's side they are on as the guy running that association dumped his own wife into a nursing home!



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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #338)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:01 PM

343. My friend worked with ...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:49 AM

30. Good news.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:50 AM

32. I'm glad your wife will get the meds she needs.

However, no insurance company should have the power to interfere in doctor/patient decisions regarding the best course of treatment. You are spot on in declaring that the ACA is not healthcare. It's ultimately a scheme to enrich the coffers of the insurance industry at the expense of the public - one more way to screw the little guy.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:52 AM

33. Glad to hear it

Nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:53 AM

34. Great news!

Health and happiness to her.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:01 AM

39. Great.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:02 AM

40. Good news, for now.

hope it all works out in the end.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:03 AM

41. Great news

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:06 AM

44. very relieved to hear it

As someone with a chronic illness, I have deep empathy for her, and I hope this matter will be resolved permanently so you can focus on happier things.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:06 AM

45. That's great news Will.

How I wish things weren't this difficult. I do hope you write about it, you could help someone else by doing that.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:08 AM

46. Yay!

Great news! Made me so mad I couldn't comment yesterday...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:08 AM

47. Good new. We have enough struggles in life, healthcare should not be one of them.

It's the most frustrating thing for most Americans and it doesn't have to be this way.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:09 AM

48. Good

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:09 AM

49. That is good to hear Will!

 

Excellent news!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:11 AM

51. Apology accepted

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:15 AM

56. Welcome to DU, Mr. President.

What a clever username you chose for commenting on DU, sir!

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:19 AM

59. you know, PBO should have an account here, seriously

Granted, he would get thousands of responses but talk about traffic for this site !

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #59)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:34 AM

72. you assume

he doesn't

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #72)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:39 AM

74. busted !

Damn Warren, you are just too smart for me.



"Michele, stop bothering me, I'm posting on DU ! Putin can wait, damnit ! "


ok ok Michele is bugging me, see ya soon Warren !

PBO

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #59)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:28 PM

209. DU is for the "politically liberal". Just sayin. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #209)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:31 PM

210. for Democrats too

He won't have an acct. here.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #210)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:37 PM

212. Since this is a message board for the "politically liberal" there are some Democrats (e.g. the

 

Lieberman Wing) that should not be welcome.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:15 AM

55. .

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:16 AM

57. Wonderful news.

It must be a huge weight off of both of your shoulders.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:22 AM

61. Now you've found at least temporary help, I'll point out that "single-payer" isn't a panacea.

For instance, under the UK NHS, stories about having problems accessing certain drugs and treatments similar to your family's aren't unheard of, though there the gatekeepers aren't insurance companies, but local health authorities. We've been discussing this in the UK forum here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10885614

In answer to a question from steve2470 about NHS medication coverage, muriel_volestrangler replied:

For most medications, there's a standard per prescription charge of £7.85

Various groups get free prescriptions, such as children, over 60s, pregnant women, and people on benefits. If you're getting a lot of prescriptions, you can pay for a period for all of them.

http://www.nhs.uk/nhsengland/Healthcosts/pages/Prescriptioncosts.aspx

The controversy comes in because some medications are not covered by the NHS. NICE,the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, evaluates treatments such as drugs, and decides if they are effective enough for a type of treatment - an evaluation which considers the price to the NHS as well as the clinical effectiveness (and can also mean a drug is approved for some circumstances, but not others - it might be accepted as effective for one type of cancer, but still thought unproven for another, and so restricted to the first).

http://www.nice.org.uk/page.aspx?o=AboutGuidance


I replied:

Related to NICE's role that m_v's mentioned, there's also the pop phrase "postcode lottery."

See Google for its prevalence.

Basically, even if NICE approves a drug or treatment, if it's new and/or expensive, there's no guarantee a patient in a particular administrative area will be able to receive it, depending on the policies and priorities of their regional health authority.

You'll maybe notice if you visit that link that the term's especially popular with the UK's RW press as a means to pick away at the foundations of the NHS, but it's a real phenomenon, and here's a brief explanation from The Guardian (over ten years old, but not too inaccurate in principle):

What is the postcode lottery?
The postcode lottery is shorthand for seemingly random countrywide variations in the provision and quality of public services - the huge gap between the best and the rest. Where you live defines the standard of services you can expect. So if you live in the "wrong" area, and, in extreme cases, on the "wrong" side of a road, you may get a poorer service than your neighbour or you may not get the service at all and have to pay for it privately. The postcode lottery is a big issue in the NHS, where the gap between the rhetoric of a comprehensive and universal "national" service and the reality is increasingly stretched.

Some problems are universal, even with single payer healthcare systems (especially when they're subject to creeping and not so subtle privatization).

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:23 AM

65. yes thanks for that info ! nt

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:42 AM

75. Very good info...been reading about the creeping privatization of the NHS..

by RW in GB... Austerity, Privatization...in tandem it seems.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:54 AM

81. Any universal system is going to be problematic.

The NHS is Europe's largest employer, and demands on it from patients are increasing as folks live longer and more advanced medicines and treatments become available. This inevitably leads to "rationing" in some respects. All systems do it, none have a bottomless purse.

The NHS isn't the only healthcare model out there, and not necessarily one the US should copy. The US system will evolve over the years, like every other, unless people go along with moves to abandon positive reforms in the face of problems. Whether it'll end up improving is up to the people and the politicians they elect.

The important thing, IMO, in either country, is to resist calls to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Despite constant griping in the UK media and the budget cuts and management snafus over the years, overt moves to go for total privatization would be electoral suicide. Instead, in the UK the danger is the constant drip-drip of partial privatization (not just under the Tories - Labour has been guilty of mismanagement too) and the increasing involvement of for-profit healthcare, which is gradually devaluing and degrading the service. This is being resisted at regional levels, and the problems are generally worst in England.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:10 PM

119. Exactly...this isn't an ACA problem, it's a formulary one. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #119)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:12 PM

122. Yup.

If one's going to get angry, it's important to focus it on the appropriate targets.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #122)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:14 PM

128. Precisely...so attacking the President was both inefficient, and incorrect. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #119)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:01 PM

176. Imagine that. People actually LEARNING from the experiences of people that live in other

countries and seeing how they've dealt with the issues instead of demanding that they shut up.

What an awesome concept...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:22 AM

62. Great news

thanks for letting us know.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:23 AM

64. A most excellent development Will.

 

FWIW this DUer sees lashing out in desperation and anger when the well being of one's other half is at stake as perfectly acceptable and feels it needs NO apology whatsoever.

Excellent news.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #64)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 11:34 AM

318. +10000

Yeah they call him self-centered for caring about his wife. My wife almost died a few years ago and I would have and did do every thing I could to save her. She could keep no food down. The doctors here kept trying to tie it to another condition she has. We finally had to send her to Switzerland to find a competent doctor who diagnosed her condition correctly within ten minutes of seeing her. It is a rare condition that screwed up her esophagus. There is a simple surgical procedure she underwent back here. She weighed about ninety pounds by the time she was fixed. Fortunately she was a little overweight when it began and she had begun supplementing her food with nutritionally packed liquids just to keep her alive.

I was fortunate that she has sisters living in Europe who helped. It only cost about 250 dollars for the doctor visit and diagnosis because no motherfucking insurance companies had their greedy shit-covered fingers stuck in the pie.

Probably shared a little too much but the point I wanted to make was god damn it when your loved ones are dying the rest of the world hardly matters. To call someone self-centered for that is bullshit.

ACA is an improvement but healthcare insurance will always be an obscenity to me.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:23 AM

66. Excellent.

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:27 AM

68. glad to hear it

Hope the whole issue is resolved soon.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:30 AM

70. I'm so happy for you both in getting necessary meds. But did

ACA have anything to do with it? Could you be getting them without ACA in effect?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:34 AM

71. sometimes insurance doesn't cover a drug until they are convinced you need it and have

 

exhausted the cheaper drugs first. Your doctor should be able to assist you. Also there should be an insurance board in your state to contact.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:55 AM

82. Another suggestion along that line...

Sometimes, to get a drug, there are hoops the doctor has to jump through. Sometimes, it's filling out a q-aire that demonstrates that they've checked for this, ruled out that, and done whatever else is they need to do to to prove the drug is medically necessary. The doctor may not know about the hoops.

Glad to hear the pharma company hooked you up.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:37 AM

73. Wonderful!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:44 AM

76. Thankfully she had a person of passion who cared about her

 

Not everyone has such a person. Anger is an energy. Use it.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:45 AM

77. What a relief.

 

Thanks for letting us know, and imo your outrage was completely justified.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:46 AM

78. Happy for your wife, and for you as well.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:47 AM

79. And that is enough for today--it sure is!

I am SO relieved, my dear Will, for you both.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:53 AM

80. That's great news!

 



K and R

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:57 AM

83. Good to hear. I hope your wife does well. Prayers and hugs nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:58 AM

84. Wishing you both all the best.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:58 AM

85. I don't understand the responses thanking Obama and the ACA for this.

This seems to be an act of generosity by the drug company, and nothing systemic.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:13 PM

93. Did you understand the posts blaming Obama and the ACA when things seemed bad?

100% blame and 0% credit seems ok with some.

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Response to BklnDem75 (Reply #93)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:57 PM

161. I don't think Obama is to blame for the sorry state of American health care that existed before 2008

I think the ACA is a significant piece of legislation that will do a lot of good, and Obama and the Democratic Congress deserve credit for that.

However, I think we all agree it also doesn't go far enough. Most of the blame for that--the tremendous majority of it-- is on the Republicans, of course. But unfortunately, some of it belongs with Obama, who negotiated away the public option and took too accommodating an initial stance, at least in my opinion. I know other people will have different, reasonable viewpoints on this.

In this particular instance, however, it seems like a private act of charity or goodwill or public relations, and nothing to do with anything political or systemic.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #161)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:57 PM

189. CORRECT

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #161)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:56 PM

196. Thank you for your nuanced reasoning. You and I share the same thoughts. n/t

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:13 PM

125. First...it was never an ACA/Obama problem. It was a formulary one. The ACA, however,

 

gives Will's wife two options she didn't have before...

1) She can't be denied health insurance due to preexisting condition; and

2) She has rights of appeal of the formulary restriction under the ACA.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:32 PM

140. You owe Obama an apology

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:44 PM

156. Yes, you are right

The problem with MS drugs was one brought up before ACA "went live".

Will's wife is still uninsured for this purpose!

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:01 PM

163. Most are sarcasm after the rant yesterday blaming Obama and the ACA for the issue

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #85)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 04:06 PM

359. "if the ACA hadn't blocked him, WP wouldn't have had to go around them!"

that's literally their thinking

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:59 AM

86. Great news. I would also suggest looking into an overseas source.

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:59 AM

87. That is good to know

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:01 PM

88. I always try to add some

kid words.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:03 PM

90. Great news!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:04 PM

91. Will, I want to thank you...

...despite my disagreement with how you brought your wife's situation to light, I appreciate you reminding us that there is still one giant healthcare problem that needs to be addressed. The insane overcharging for prescription medication.

It was a subject that was hot a few years ago, but we've been sidetracked by other problems. I don't know how to bring it back into the spotlight, but I'm going to start writing letters/emails to anyone that might listen.

I'm so glad you found a solution.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:13 PM

94. I am very sorry that you have to fight,

but very glad that she will receive her meds.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:16 PM

96. Yay!

I'm so glad that worked out for the short-term and hopefully their will be a plan to meet her needs for the long-term as well.

I certainly will not rest until we get single payer. ACA is a start, but we've got much more work to do.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:17 PM

97. Great news, really glad to hear that. But...

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:49 PM - Edit history (2)

none of us should have to deal with the frustrating maze that is for profit health insurance.

It's such a frustrating, emotional energy blasting waste of time. Most of us have busy lives, and don't need every second of our free time consumed by things like being put on hold for a half hour when trying to find out if our health care needs will be covered, and then struggling with bureaucracy ("I'm going to transfer you to Irma Gardnotagin over in Customer Care" as you scream while really shitty digitally detracted music begins to play, music that is designed to get you to give up while you are on hold for another half hour waiting for Irma over in Customer Care to pick up as she does her nails while not answering your call for the half hour prescribed in the corporate protocol manual under the section entitled "101 Ways To Make The [strike]Mark[/strike] Customer Give Up Trying So We Can Burn Them And Increase Profits".

As you put speakerphone on and wonder, "Geez, this company made record profits in the gazillions of dollars range last year...you'd think they could hire more staff to expedite customer service!"


One problem (among many problems) people commonly have is not understanding deceptive for profit health insurance terminology. When dealing with for profit health insurance companies, what you don't know can, and probably will, hurt you. For profit health insurance companies rely on customer ignorance for increased profits.

The devil is in the details, and things don't always mean what they appear to say. And even people who are educated, literate, and have relatively high IQ's get duped sometimes. Every US health care provider's intake staff has stories about nightmare time consuming dealings with the deviousness, evasiveness, and doublespeak of for profit health insurance companies. If they can even scam the professionals, imagine what old Mack DeNife in Sales & Marketing does to folks who can't read all that well.

I wonder how much extra profit is generated for these companies per day through customer ignorance and error. I suspect it is millions of dollars, collectively.

Health care in Canada

Health care in Canada is delivered through a publicly funded health care system, which is mostly free at the point of use and has most services provided by private entities.[2] It is guided by the provisions of the Canada Health Act of 1984.[3] The government assures the quality of care through federal standards. The government does not participate in day-to-day care or collect any information about an individual's health, which remains confidential between a person and his or her physician.[citation needed] Canada's provincially based Medicare systems are cost-effective partly because of their administrative simplicity. In each province each doctor handles the insurance claim against the provincial insurer. There is no need for the person who accesses health care to be involved in billing and reclaim. Private health expenditure accounts for 30% of health care financing.[4]

Competitive practices such as advertising are kept to a minimum, thus maximizing the percentage of revenues that go directly towards care. In general, costs are paid through funding from income taxes. In British Columbia, taxation-based funding is supplemented by a fixed monthly premium which is waived or reduced for those on low incomes.[5] There are no deductibles on basic health care and co-pays are extremely low or non-existent (supplemental insurance such as Fair Pharmacare may have deductibles, depending on income).

A health card is issued by the Provincial Ministry of Health to each individual who enrolls for the program and everyone receives the same level of care.[6] There is no need for a variety of plans because virtually all essential basic care is covered, including maternity and infertility problems. Depending on the province, dental and vision care may not be covered but are often insured by employers through private companies. In some provinces, private supplemental plans are available for those who desire private rooms if they are hospitalized. Cosmetic surgery and some forms of elective surgery are not considered essential care and are generally not covered. These can be paid out-of-pocket or through private insurers. Health coverage is not affected by loss or change of jobs, health care cannot be denied due to unpaid premiums (in BC), and there are no lifetime limits or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

Pharmaceutical medications are covered by public funds for the elderly or indigent,[7] or through employment-based private insurance. Drug prices are negotiated with suppliers by the federal government to control costs. Family physicians (often known as general practitioners or GPs in Canada) are chosen by individuals. If a patient wishes to see a specialist or is counseled to see a specialist, a referral can be made by a GP. Preventive care and early detection are considered important and yearly checkups are encouraged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada


US patients again look to Canada in quest for affordable medication

Why pay more?

Everybody wants Canadian drugs for one reason: Brand-name meds are cheaper there. A 2012 report found, for example, that a 30-day supply of Cymbalta (used to treat depression or chronic pain) typically costs $149 in the United States, compared with $113 in Canada; Nasonex (used for allergies) was $105 in the U.S. and only $29 in Canada.

These price differences are due to the unique way that the U.S. handles its pharmaceutical marketplace. In most other countries, governments either set pricing caps or negotiate lower prices directly with drugmakers. In the U.S., pricing is determined by market competition among pharmaceutical companies, which have little incentive to keep prices down.

When accused of price gouging in the U.S. market, the companies claim that the high costs are required to pay off sunken research and development costs — averaging over $1 billion per drug, according to Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. The claim has been debated, with some studies estimating the cost at more like $50 million to $75 million. Regardless, because other countries force pharmaceutical companies to sell drugs cheaply abroad, U.S. residents are stuck with the bill, essentially subsidizing the affordable prescription drugs in other countries.
snip---
When he was drafting what would eventually become the Affordable Care Act, President Barack Obama considered adding a section that would enable Medicare to negotiate drug prices. However, he gave that away as a bargaining chip to gain the overall support of the pharmaceutical industry.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/11/7/is-canada-the-answertohighpriceofmedsinus.html


Free Market Capitalism: Let The Buyer Beware.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #97)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:29 PM

105. Great post.

Thank you.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #105)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:13 PM

126. You're welcome. Comes from several decades of various unpleasant experiences I wish I'd never had,

from the standpoint of customer, employer, employee, citizen, neighbor, relative, and now ACA insured.

My ACA supported insurance is excellent, relatively speaking, but still, I go to great lengths ensuring that I don't get deceived or ripped off, and these great lengths include triple checking everything and recording every conversation I have with anyone in the health insurance industry. This way, the chances of my getting burned are minimized.

I've been extremely healthy over the course of my lifetime. I can only imagine the insurance nightmares many folks with chronic illnesses have had to deal with, and this is very wrong, and should not be.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #97)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:50 PM

113. I think the issue in this case is also the huge price the drug companies try to charge.

For now, the drug company has appeared to buckle, but it's hardly the white knight in this situation.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #97)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:09 PM

237. Yes, all of this about how our fucked up system is not to blame is ridiculous

 

your last quoted paragraph is a perfect example of how this president is either clueless or just another operative of the 1%. He made all of these "concessions", like this one which is going to cost Americans a fortune, and got not a single Republican vote. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and consider that he really didn't have any idea what was happening, but the fact that he promised the PO during the campaign is suspicious

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #237)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:20 AM

289. Pssst....that drug isn't on Canada's formulary either.

The problem is the drug is expensive. All insurance systems, be they single-payer or private, require hoop-jumping to get that drug covered.

Our system has plenty of shortcomings. There's no need to invent more.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:19 PM

98. Cool!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:21 PM

99. I'm delighted to hear this. Maybe it would be a reasonable thing now to delete your FU Obama OP.

 

I mean, really.

If you didn't know at the time you wrote it how wrong you were, you certainly do now.

And, sincerely, the news about your wife's medication is magnificent.

Be well, Sir.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:21 PM

100. Will, i missed your earlier post.

I have been on the manufacturers Patient Assistance Program for my MS drugs for over five years.

You might also check out "Patient Access Network"
http://www.panfoundation.org/
for assistance with co-pay.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:30 PM

107. I wonder what day you are going to be on FOX?

I'm sure they will be happy to air your success with your health care.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:37 PM

109. Glad to hear it Will

 

One day we will get people in office who will completely transform our current for profit health insurance system.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:43 PM

110. Great news! Now how about an apology to DU for the big shit you took on our President?

That's what people tend to do when they are wrong.

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Response to tridim (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:46 PM

111. Don't hold your breath

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #111)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:03 PM

117. Exactly. Tomorrow's another day.

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Response to tridim (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:58 PM

115. So.

 

Obama somehow magically got the drug company to help us after his legislation delivered us to an insurance company that fucked us over...thus, I should apologize?

Truly magical thinking.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:11 PM

120. Will, allow me to explain this again

 

In 2008, if your wife dropped off COBRA, she would not have been able to buy an individual insurance policy. At all. Because she had MS. She would either have had to find a new job with health insurance coverage and hope that it covered her meds or stayed in her current job forever and hope that it never changed its policy.

If she quit her job and not found employment within 63 days, she would never be able to get covered anywhere ever again.

Under the ACA, she can get coverage. And - in looking at the Anthem policy - she can get treatment for MS.

The issue is that she can't - at the moment - get the treatment she has been getting for MS. Which is admittedly a frustrating problem. But it is one that could potentially be solved if you follow the steps that many people here have given you.

ACA provides your wife coverage and treatment - neither of which she could receive if she had made these same decisions in 2007.

I apologize on behalf of President Obama that he could not mandate free drugs for everyone at anytime. I also apologize on behalf of President Obama for all the snow this winter.

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Response to theboss (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:28 PM

138. Excellent explanation

Once again.

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Response to theboss (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:48 PM

186. And Anthem could have denied the MS drug with any policy they wrote even

before ACA. They could approve it in one state they operate in and not in New Hampshire for all we know.

There is nothing new, created by the ACA, in what has taken place so far. Many, many people with Medicare Part D spend days trying to locate the 'best' provider that will cover their current prescription drugs and reading through dozens of formularies to find the 'plan' that best suits their needs.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #186)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 03:53 PM

366. Did we set up negotiation for prices? Shorten patents so more generics could come to the market?

How about reimportation? An MLR for pharmaceutical companies?

Or did that sector actually get a sloppy, wet kiss to pacify them into supporting the effort?

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #366)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:45 AM

371. Did they do it for Medicare Part D? Things move slowly. We need to

continue to push for those changes, but you won't see any if the Republicans win in November.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #371)

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:53 PM

372. No, Medicare D is a TeaPubliKlan boondoggle that should have never been passed despite the benefits

Now we must somehow replace the fucking thing because we can't get away with killing it and it can't be fixed any easier than constructing a brand new program because it is fundamentally a giveaway to the pharmaceutical industry. It can be improved from the user end and we made some headway there as the doughnut hole will close which will be a great help to many seniors but on the functional end we are really, really hogtied.

To do a little at a time you must set yourself up structurally, when you try to thread the needle and actually make yourself have to reinvent the wheel as an improvement you find that you have screwed the pooch and good.

You can add on to a house, I've seen folks do it a room at at a time off a trailer but you don't do it when it makes you have to find other property in different terrain, maybe in a different country.

The only plausible bridges are the community health centers and the state waivers, the actual meat of the law very much strengthens and reinforces the cartel and sets them up as a too big to fail entity with greater tie in to the full faith and credit of not only the US but each of us individually as well.

I do not like the permutation even as strictly market based reform, the argument that it is this or single payer is simple minded and untrue. That doesn't mean that some real good is being done or that critical relief is being provided but the negative drag is there.

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Response to theboss (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:47 PM

228. Thank you Sir

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Response to theboss (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:54 PM

230. Obama's such a sweetie, the boss.. He thanks you for apologizing for him causing

all that snow and ice. And, I thank you.



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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:13 PM

123. Weird

"Obama somehow magically got the drug company to help us after his legislation delivered us to an insurance company that fucked us over...thus, I should apologize? "

Shouldn't that say:

Obama somehow magically got the drug company to help us after his legislation magically delivered us to an insurance company that fucked us over...thus, I should apologize?

I mean, Obama seems to be making your decisions for you so he should get credit for magically delivering you the the wonderful drug company that helped.

You know he controls the drug companies, don't you?

You asked if you had it "straight." Apparently, the answer is that you don't want to and never will.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:13 PM

124. LOL. Now you're a shill for big pharma?

 

too funny.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:19 PM

132. Yes, Will. It's one thing to be angry and fly off the handle, another to be unable to admit error.

 

The arrogance is unbecoming a progressive.

On this matter, I think you're hopeless.

Obama created a life far better for probably millions than existed before.

He had a fucked up Congress to deal with.

This is the best he could get and he didn't CREATE out of thin air the insurance treachery that you encountered.

I swear, you're blind and you're stubborn and your angry posts, recommended by your choir of sycophants, do nothing to advance the cause.

Not a God Damned thing.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:27 PM

180. I wasn't going to post on this thread. But I HAVE to commend this from NYC_SKP.

Every shit someone takes on the President, as described farther unthread, is tantamount to another vote for "President rand paul" or heaven forbid - "President jebbie." Okay. Be angry. But how dare someone here lacerate President Obama like that and call him some fucking used-car salesman. That's what one would expect from the Pox Noise crowd. Or trolls. And I know enough about Will Pitt's body of work to know he is not a troll. But vitriol in that last thread was seriously uncalled-for.

All you Obama dumpers - you REALLY want another republi-CON getting into the White House? You REALLY want Dems at each other's throats so the overall result is we have a GOP House AND Senate too? Will you be happy THEN???????? Stop and think how THAT miserable outcome would work out for ya.

I will take a shitty Democrat over even a "good" republi-CON ANY DAY. It's not just them, it's who they bring in with them. And I myself will apologize here, too, because I'm probably gonna bore and piss off a lot of DUers here over the next months and years, because I'm gonna be nagging about this - again, and again, and again, and again, and AGAIN.

… and AGAIN!

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Response to calimary (Reply #180)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:22 PM

244. Agreed.

Right there with ya, Calimary.

They are going out of their way to shut us down with petty tactics, totally unbecoming of any decent liberal I've ever known.

Like you, I've been around here long enough to feel at home, and this latest band of chronic poo flingers aren't going to run me off with my tail between my legs. I plan on being a thorn in their collective side for the duration.

I'm a proud Democrat, and we have come too far to piss it away now.

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Response to calimary (Reply #180)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:15 PM

349. Again, Obama is not running against Rand

So we are starting with a clean slate. Right now, we need to make sure ACA fulfills the basic promises that were repeated Obamacare ad infinitum over the last few years. Now it is time to stand and deliver or he is our bold deceiver.

As for Rand, we cross that mudhole when we have to -- not before.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:55 PM

195. good post and thank you

I totally understand his frustration and rage.

However...it was misdirected. President Obama, IMHO, is head and shoulders above any Republican and frankly some Democrats. The insurance companies and their backers, both seen and unseen, are the real villains here.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:12 PM

239. Will's dug in his heels and will not apologize to that @%%^^&*(((%$ Obama!!1111



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #132)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:45 PM

335. +1000000000000000000000000000

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:20 PM

133. Yes since you apparently haven't learned anything from this, you should apologize.

Like a human fucking being.

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Response to tridim (Reply #133)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:43 PM

143. Apology accepted

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:21 PM

134. BTW

Obamacare: It's Obama's signature achievement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024695694

Magically helping every American since 2010.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:23 PM

136. Will..as the mother of a disabled child on two non-formulary drugs, I say you are wrong.

 

You don't have an insurance problem.

You have a formulary problem. You would still have a formulary problem, even under single payer.

But here is how your President has helped you...

You wife can't be excluded from coverage based on her MS.

You have new rights to appeal the formulary under the ACA.

NOW PLEASE CORRECT THIS POST.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4686037

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:12 PM

149. It's sad to be still pissed at Obama for putting you in this situation.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:10 PM

166. Obama never promised to abolish formularies.

Or make everything magically work just the way you wanted.

As usual no apology, no backing down, and I expect another thread telling DU how bad Obama is using some trumped up insane reasoning.

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Response to tridim (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:15 PM

129. +10000000. nt

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Response to tridim (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:43 PM

225. That ain't gonna happen. The ODS is too strong with that one.

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Response to tridim (Reply #110)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:00 PM

342. People will massive, almost immeasurable egos don't apologize

 

For anything.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:48 PM

112. Great news Will!

Firstly, for the health and well being of your wife.

Secondly, an Obamacare horror story from somebody with Will's liberal progressive activist journalistic creds is just plain not good!

It does speak to the clumsy and sometimes ill informed start up of the ACA. And it shows if people persevere and get some help the ACA in the end is doing what it's intended to do; provide all of us with reasonably priced health insurance that actually provides actual health services instead of pre-existing conditions and lifetime ceiling caps and all the other crap the insurance company loop-hole-ologists used to deny people health converge when they needed it most.

THE FUCKING DEATH PANELS ARE GONE FOREVER, BABY!

-90% Jimmy

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:03 PM

116. So glad you wife is getting her meds

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:14 PM

127. Glad to hear it Will.. You know when we are having issues paying for meds

we usually ask the doctor for "samples".. I don't know if that would work in your case but...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:17 PM

131. That is good news. Sorry that you had to go directly to them, though I

am really happy that they are going to provide your wife with what she needs for the time being.

Good luck to your wife. Best wishes.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:22 PM

135. Awesome news!!!!

 

I do the same thing for Mrs. CFLDem's meds.

Proving once again that the for profit insurance companies are the main problem with our healthcare.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:23 PM

137. Humm...perhaps an article detailing what to do

might be helpful to others.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:33 PM

141. Obamacare is better than what we had ...

... and will keep improving.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:40 PM

142. So happy to hear that!

I spent many years fighting with insurance companies and doctors trying to get care for my Mother's various ailments. It's not easy and it sure as hell ain't fun. Here's hoping the road is a little easier for your family from now on.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 01:53 PM

148. Pitt wins!!!

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:20 PM

151. Perhaps you should have done this first before cursing the President (nt)

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Response to question everything (Reply #151)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:45 PM

158. How did this change anything in his OP? n-t

 

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Response to question everything (Reply #151)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:47 PM

160. let me see if I recap this properly:

 

1 - working for Months on phones for hours and days at a time. Getting no Where but frustrated

2 - ask a trusted friend about What Should I do? The smart (and probably Ron Pauler friend) says:
''You can't do nuttin', Will. Obama fucked you up good! Give up!''

3 - Post your rage and target on a forum: Why the dirty rotten piece of shit used car salesman Obama!

4. Problem solved in one day by knowledgeable people on DU.


hmmmmmm

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Response to Whisp (Reply #160)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:00 PM

162. Your subtlety is your strong suit

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #162)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:09 PM

165. you can fill in any missing pieces, feel free.

 

It feels something like the missing Malaysian plane to me. One of those mystifying things.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #165)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:51 PM

171. It must be mystifying to try to comment...

....about the inner workings of another country.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #171)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:54 PM

173. hahaha!

 

another one!

tee hee haa haaa and more ha.

Us furiners sure are a pain in the arse, eh? We should just STFU unless it's something Your agenda needs us for.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #173)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:03 PM

177. I hold dual citizenship, U.S. and Canada.

But I would never think that I know enough about Canadian policies and politics to comment once on them in a public forum. To say nothing of multiple posts day in day out. It must be distracting.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #177)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:30 PM

181. that's really big of you.

 

What if I had a burning hate for the President - called him awful names and said he was a piece of shit and ACA was a piece of shit work and everything he says and does ends up in the shithouse?

Then would I have your permission to speak on the matter?

If I could be bothered I'd search and see if you ever commented or had an opinion on the goings on in other countries. Did you stay silent during the Iraq war, how about Palestinian/Isreali issues or the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries. I think Australia still has a very severe drought - I hope you didn't break your own rules!

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Response to Whisp (Reply #181)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:45 PM

184. nice dodge. nt

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Response to grasswire (Reply #184)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:46 PM

185. poor attempt at recovery. nt

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #181)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

264. Then you'd be more than Welcome by the OH on DU.. I saw someone

from Canada yesterday Whining venomously about the President.. and strangely Welcomed with Open Arms by an OH.

They don't like it when a Canadian supports President Obama.. that's a big NO NO.

I do believe this is an International board? Peeps from all over the World?

Whisp~

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Response to grasswire (Reply #177)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:41 PM

191. One of the DU owner/admins is Canadian.

 

And I believe that DU probably wouldn't exist or be the same without his input. So, this xenophobic baloney I'm seeing posted around here is rather baffling.


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Response to JTFrog (Reply #191)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:25 PM

201. This happens when they don't have a new Cat Food Commission

 

false story to flail and obsess over. That must have been a sad day on DU when that treasure had to be given up.

and I think it also has to do with Obama being a diplomat and not going for the latest possible invasive Bush like move that is dreamed about - that must have been discouraging that American soldiers are not headed for Ukraine so they could bash his skull in with vile words til the end of time.

I have seen the cycle quite a few times so these jibes are just part of the pattern. I think it's amusing, and almost entertaining that furiners get the treatment when there is not much else happening.


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Response to JTFrog (Reply #191)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:34 PM

203. Are you talking about EarlG? I think he's British, not Canadian??

But everything else in your post is spot on. But all you have to do is look at the caliber of the posters that making this "well, you ain't here so you need to shut up, I don't give a damn how Freeperish I sound" to know that this little foray into xenophobia is yet another desperate attempt to change the subject. When you know you're on the losing side of an issue, just try to limit the folks that can participate. Republicans have been doing that for decades.

It's really nice to see you, Agent Frog. Haven't seen you in a while.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #203)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 08:22 PM

215. Nice to see you too.

 

Been spending more time with the grandkids and less time here since it tends to make my head hurt so much these days.



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Response to Whisp (Reply #173)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:34 PM

182. Why remain a foreigner? How about coming to live here as a citizen where you too can enjoy our

extraordinary benefits.

44, 000 people here die each year because they cannot afford HC. An acceptable loss in favor of the profits for Health Insurance Corps under our system.

Just curious, is it because you think the US Corporate Health Insurance system where people have to fight to stay alive, is so good that you feel the need to comment favorably on it?

What kind of HC system do you have and would like to see it substituted with the US System?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #182)


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #182)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:22 PM

353. How many times have I a US citizen wished

my grandparents had not given up their Canadian citizenship? MANY.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 02:24 PM

154. I'm very happy to read this

But it still means there is a problem.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:15 PM

167. I'm really glad for you Will.

I was almost looking for a "Thanks, Obama." But, alas, no such blame.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:38 PM

168. That's a good thing.

 

I hope you win the fight with your ins company.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:40 PM

169. Very pleased.

It's a good outcome. Sorry for your frustration.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 03:59 PM

175. Wonderful! A big

 

thanks to all who suggested you do this.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:34 PM

183. Excellent news (though it should never have even been a danger)! Best thoughts to her!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:39 PM

190. Will, I thought you should know a thread was started in MIRT about your other thread.

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:57 PM - Edit history (1)

The thread in MIRT was wayyyy out of line and wayyyyy beyond the job or mandate given to MIRT to deal with ONLY newbie trolls. On occasion, and only when a 6-0 hide gets emailed to the MIRT team, members will discuss a long time DUer - and only in the context of that specific hide prefaced by "not ours" or some such. That wasn't the case here. In fact, the member who posted the MIRT thread knew your thread survived a jury. (Btw, they also sent two sop alerts before starting the MIRT thread)

The mirt thread was rightfully locked by earlg.

As MIRT is access restricted, I feel it's only fair you should see this abuse of the system that went on behind the scenes.

This was a blatant abuse of the MIRT forum and overstep in an apparent attempt to get a member in trouble with the admins.


Note to jurors: the MIRT description specifically states MIRT content is not confidential and MIRT members don't pledge any confidentiality when they sign up. In fact, the description says your conduct is subject to discussion outside MIRT - Part of DU's transparency I guess.



From the MIRT guidelines:

MIR Team members can make use of a special access-restricted workspace which essentially functions like a forum or a group. This workspace is provided for the MIR Team only, in the event that they need help and/or advice from their colleagues when discussing potential intruders. While the Malicious Intruder Removal Workspace cannot be viewed by DU members who are not on the MIR Team, discussions that take place in the workspace are not considered privileged information and MIR Team members may talk about them elsewhere. However, MIR Team members should use their best judgment when doing so.




From the MIRT how to:


The MIR Team does not have blanket authority to enforce DU's Terms of Service wherever violations may occur -- that is the role of the Administrators. The narrowly-focused job of the MIR Team is to protect our members by removing malicious intruders.

From Skinners thread in MIRT:


As a member of the Malicious Intruder Removal Team (MIR Team), you have access to this access-restricted workspace. You can use this space to have discussions with other members of the MIR team, to help you make wise decisions. 

Please note that only MIR Team members have access to this workspace, but it is not a completely private forum. Other members with access to this forum have not signed any confidentiality agreement, and they are free to discuss with other people what goes on in this workspace and how you do you job. As long as you remain professional and polite in your postings here, you shouldn't have any problems. 


Your Job 

The Malicious Intruder Removal Team (MIR Team) is empowered to revoke the posting privileges of people who show up at DU with the intent to disrupt. This includes but is not limited to conservative trolls, spammers, and the like. 

The DU Administrators have deliberately selected the phrase "malicious intruder" instead of the more common term "disruptor," because we feel the term "disruptor" has become so broadly applied that it has become essentially meaningless. For reference: 

ma·li·cious adj. Characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm. 
in·trud·er n. One who intrudes; one who thrusts himself in, or enters without right, or without leave or welcome; a trespasser.


The MIR Team does not have blanket authority to enforce DU's Terms of Service wherever violations may occur -- that is the role of the Administrators. The narrowly-focused job of the MIR Team is to protect our members by removing malicious intruders. 

If you signed up for the Malicious Intruder Removal Team in the hope that you could ban some other long-term DUer that you don't like, you will be sadly disappointed. The software won't even let you ban members with more than 100 posts unless that person has had a post hidden by the Jury in the previous hour. The emphasis is on removing malicious intruders who are actively disrupting. 

In other words: You get to be a hero. You aren't going to be banning beloved long-term DUers -- you're going to be taking out the trash. 


Please note that only MIR Team members have access to this workspace, but it is not a completely private forum. Other members with access to this forum have not signed any confidentiality agreement, and they are free to discuss with other people what goes on in this workspace and how you do you job. As long as you remain professional and polite in your postings here, you shouldn't have any problems.





The MIRT thread:
------------------------


Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:27 PM
uppityperson (83,170 posts)

WilliamPitt, jury 3-3, posting to make sure Admin sees

Last edited Tue Mar 18, 2014, 05:53 PM - Edit history (2)

This discussion thread was locked by EarlG (a host of the Malicious Intruder Removal group).
Out of MIRT's pay grade by a lot but alerting to admin. Someone posted said it withstood a jury, 3-3.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964
What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act


What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act

What I've learned after a three-month war with these fiends: the ACA says the insurance companies cannot deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions, which is true as far as it goes. But they can deny coverage for the life-saving medications necessary to treat those conditions. The insurance company I signed up with through the ACA exchange just denied coverage of my wife's multiple sclerosis medication. We're "covered," to the tune of $700 a month...just not for what she really needs.

A cozy loophole, that.

Fuck you, insurance industry.

Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman.

From my heart and soul, fuck you.
12

Anger is a gift.


A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Mar 18, 2014, 03:42 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I sympathize with the poster's wife's medical situation; and if he'd even said 'fuck you Mr President for caving in' I would have voted to leave. But calling him a 'piece of shit used car salesman' is a step too far, and plays into the hands of the anti-healthcare Right.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So because "many others are finding that ACA is a blessing," those who find problems should just shut up? I would never have used the words that this person used to describe the president, however, the president can take care of himself. If this poster had directed those words at a DUer I would vote to hide.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a long term poster. He is understandably upset by reality and angry, like many Progressives that the ACA was not enough, not sufficient, but was better than nothing. His outrage is understandable, a little over the top calling the President a used car salesman, but does not warrant disappearing the message.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: poster may be upset but this is over the top
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't blame the poster for railing at the insurance company and the president for producing an inadequate health care act that benefits the insurance companies.

-----------------------

Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:28 PM
Baitball Blogger (15,570 posts)
1. Yeah. Not sure how this is going to end.


For more insight into what passes for normal in Seminole County, FL, check out www.keystoneworksite.com
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--------

Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:29 PM
Sissyk (3,523 posts)
2. I'm starting to think the WPTroll

has really taken over WP's account.
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Response to Sissyk (Reply #2)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:48 PM
In_The_Wind (55,363 posts)
9. almost looks that way


Never regret something that once made you smile.
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--------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:30 PM
greatauntoftriplets (137,842 posts)
3. Thanks and I support alerting Admin about this.

Tiocfaidh ár lá
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Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:33 PM

------------------------------------
SidDithers (31,652 posts)
4. Kick it upstairs...

I also sent a CS alert, to add my vote that this isn't appropriate for DU.

There are certain lines at DU that shouldn't be crossed. Obviously, homophobia, racism, sexism, anti-Semitism are over that line.

IMO, so is "Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman."



Sid

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-----------------/
Response to SidDithers (Reply #4)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 01:40 AM
Violet_Crumble (31,640 posts)
18. Don't forget Islamophobia. I woulda thought that's a line that shouldn't be crossed n/t

"I'm disgusted by Dave Grohl. I mean it's (Foo Fighters) just boring fucking jock-rock, isn't it?.... What do you call them in Australia... Bogans isn't it?" - Ian Astbury, The Cult.
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------------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:38 PM
TBF (22,824 posts)
5. I feel for Will,

but as I said out in the thread he is attacking the wrong thing.

POTUS is an administrator and I do think he has tried to help where he can (limited ways - things like signing the Lily Ledbetter Act etc), but Will is apparently channeling all his anger towards him.

The problem is much larger and often discussed on leftist political boards (as opposed to liberal boards - this is largely a democratic/liberal board imo). Socialists/communists see the issue as an economic system that needs to be changed. We talk about it in small groups (both online and in person). I throw in a few words here & there to get people thinking ... but when push comes to shove we support one of two parties unless things majorly change in this country.

I hope this doesn't result in banning because I do love Will, but that was an unwise OP. I hope he re-thinks and deletes it.
The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening. ― Rosa Luxemburg
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-------------------
Response to TBF (Reply #5)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:39 PM
uppityperson (83,170 posts)
6. I feel for Will too, but this is not acceptable

Gay, Straight, Black, White, Marriage is a Civil Right.
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---------------
Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:41 PM
TBF (22,824 posts)
7. Yes, I know.

I am very sad for him but he is missing the forest for the trees.
The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening. ― Rosa Luxemburg
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-----------------------
Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 04:47 PM
one_voice (12,704 posts)
8. I feel for him too...

I just posted that. I've been 2 months without my meds and my husband had to get medication from the doc today to hold him over till our insurance is in effect, so I know the frustration. However what he said in the OP and what he continues to say throughout the thread is unacceptable on a Democratic board.

You can't separate peace from freedom, because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom. Malcolm X
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--------------------
Response to one_voice (Reply #8)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 05:12 PM
greatauntoftriplets (137,842 posts)
10. A subsequent post where he repeated that message got hidden.

Last edited Tue Mar 18, 2014, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Juries are so unreliable, IMO.
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---------------------------
Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 01:20 AM
azurnoir (32,482 posts)
17. What would you like to see happen?

you wish admins to be aware but to what end? Admins are certainly already aware of this post, especially seeing how 'someone' got his post where he repeated the car salesman part hidden, I'm just curious about what result you'd like to see

As for myself Will Pit is a long time DUer and I do understand his anger over this, -a jury left his OP 3-3 and another post was hidden, yes it was OTT venting but nothing more IMO end of story or should have been

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---------------------------
Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 09:21 AM
Hassin Bin Sober (10,541 posts)
20. I think it's pretty shitty of a MIRT member to start a thread on....

... a long time DUer that not a single person suspects of being a troll or MI.

It's one thing to discuss an alert that comes across our desk but THAT isn't even the case here.

So why is there a thread in MIRT?

Two SOP alerts and probably a CS alert weren't enough?

How about try an ATA thread?
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-------------------------
Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #20)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 09:30 AM
Kali (37,437 posts)
21. there was a CS hide, though not a 6-0 that would come to us

but from the way that thread started it sure could have gone to a melt-down status that we might have needed to look at.

I don't have a problem discussing a long-time member in that context.
the monkeys still control the cabana
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---------------------------
Response to Kali (Reply #21)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 09:53 AM
Hassin Bin Sober (10,541 posts)
22. Oh bullshit. Anyone "could" go to meltdown status.

The guy has exactly ONE hide on his profile. One.

This thread was started over an hour after the alert was sent. Where was the "meltdown" when this thread was started? Don't' you think maybe we should wait for a meltdown before we start a gossip thread on a long term member non MI/Troll?
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---------------------
Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #22)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:39 AM
uppityperson (83,170 posts)
27. Who has gossiped here or said anything about Will beyond addressing his post, understanding his

frustration and hoping for the best for his wife? I see none and will not reply except to explain why I posted this, which I have done.

If it turns into a "gossip thread", I will self delete the OP to stop it.
Gay, Straight, Black, White, Marriage is a Civil Right.
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----------------
Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #22)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:56 AM
Kali (37,437 posts)
30. also there is the auto "flagged" if they get a few in a row,

so we aren't as likely to deal with it anyway.

but I stand by it being OK to discuss disruptive behavior regardless of status.
the monkeys still control the cabana
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---------------------
Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:15 AM
one_voice (12,704 posts)
23. I'd like to see it taken off the front page...

Venting is one thing...that it's on the front page is another.

Just my opinion.
You can't separate peace from freedom, because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom. Malcolm X
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---------------------
Response to one_voice (Reply #23)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:19 AM
greatauntoftriplets (137,842 posts)
24. Yes.

Tiocfaidh ár lá
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-----------------
Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:36 AM
uppityperson (83,170 posts)
25. To reply

I understand Will's frustration well. My mother was diagnosed with MS when I was finishing nursing school. She died of it 15 years later. 20 yrs later I am still working as a nurse, often with people with MS and often dealing with the damned insurance companies whose main purpose is to make money by paying out as little as possible. Rarely does a week go by without my talking to insurance companies, trying to figure out a way around their blasted ways. Rarely does a day go by without talking to and missing my mom.

I do not care who wrote the "fu...used car salesman...etc" bit. I do not care if it is a new member or even Admin. It is not acceptable to write that on DU. If it was a newbie, I would vote to ban. If it was out of out pay grade, I would alert to Admin.

There are often threads in MIRT of DU members beyond MIRT's purview written to bring attention to Admin.

If I saw EarlG write that, I'd start a thread on him. If I saw iamlg write that, I'd start a thread on her. "posting to make sure Admin sees" is what I wrote in the title of this thread and why I wrote it. I want to make sure Admin sees.

That is what this was for.

And I greatly appreciate the lack of gossip as has happened on other threads about long time members.
Gay, Straight, Black, White, Marriage is a Civil Right.
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----------------------
Response to uppityperson (Reply #25)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 12:21 PM
azurnoir (32,482 posts)
36. First I really can not see how admins were unaware-his post was on the front page most of yesterday

there was already a Host thread and not mention this

From now on, the DU administrators will be notified of every alert sent. In addition, the MIR Team will be notified whenever a post is removed under two conditions: 1) If the post is removed on a vote of 6-0, or 2) if the author of the post has fewer than 100 posts. We believe this will give the MIR Team all the information they need in order to keep DU clear of malicious intruders.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=2863

admins were already quite aware-in addition when we run threads on members the reason is to achieve a ppr of that poster


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-------------------------
Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 01:43 AM
Violet_Crumble (31,640 posts)
19. I'm not a fan of Will Pitt, but I do feel for him when I read his post...

Which is why I don't think his post should be kicked to admin. What should have happened is that the jury should have voted to hide his post and that should have been the end of it
"I'm disgusted by Dave Grohl. I mean it's (Foo Fighters) just boring fucking jock-rock, isn't it?.... What do you call them in Australia... Bogans isn't it?" - Ian Astbury, The Cult.
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-------------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 05:25 PM
Kali (37,437 posts)
11. meh, I don't care who it is

saying this to the Democratic POTUS on DU is over the top.

Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman.

From my heart and soul, fuck you.


the monkeys still control the cabana
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--------------------
Response to Kali (Reply #11)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 05:36 PM
uppityperson (83,170 posts)
13. that was my point in posting this, thanks for seeing it too.

I appreciate the backing.
Gay, Straight, Black, White, Marriage is a Civil Right.
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---------------------
Response to uppityperson (Reply #13)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 11:45 AM
NYC_SKP (57,961 posts)
33. You have my 100% support for posting this.

Despite what others may say, having just one or having four hides on one's record is meaningless in this case.

The jury system is weak protection against crazy talk, especially with "popular" members.

Had a newbie posted such crap, a jury result would have likely been quite different.

I'm all for open discussion in this forum, I don't see the harm.


Visit the new DU Progressive Media Resources Group>

---------------------



Logical (12,012 posts)
12. I think WP needs a temp ban. Not in our powers I know but he needs to have some time.....

to calm down.

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. - James Madison
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---------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 06:52 PM
MineralMan (62,331 posts)
14. I have nothing to say, really.

Will Pitt has let his temper override his good sense before. I would have voted to hide, because that would prevent further embarrasment, but there it is.
House Majority in 2014! I am a DFL precinct chair in Saint Paul, MN. http://saintpaulw6p13.blogspot.com My web content blog: http://twincitieswebcontent.blogspot.com/ Note: All posts written by me are my opinion only. Your opinion might differ.
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--------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 06:58 PM
OKNancy (31,495 posts)
15. I feel for him, but won't post in the thread for fear of "blaming the victim"

but for the life of me, I can't figure out why he didn't check his policy first to see if something so important was covered.
My daughter did on hers and picked a great Blue Cross policy. In fact she was here at the house, then said.. Well... I'm off to go pay $10.00 for my prescription!"

Before it was $267.00
“There is nothing in which people more betray their character than in what they laugh at.”
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--------------------
Response to OKNancy (Reply #15)Tue Mar 18, 2014, 07:11 PM
TBF (22,834 posts)
16. Maybe he did and they've changed

the policy. Who knows. I had some shots for my arthritis a couple of years ago that were covered but then denied this winter. I haven't followed up yet because it has gotten warmer (thus less pain). I figured I can wait it out until fall and then call (these have expensive co-pays so even if they cover I'll probably pay $500 out of pocket so I'll wait until I'm desperate).

Health care in this country really is an abomination but people don't know unless they've had the unfortunate experience of becoming chronically ill, having to actually pay for the premiums (I remember when I started work and full insurance came with the job - no premiums!), or get a policy that doesn't cover as much as others. Ours is really pretty good but our premium is now over $2K a month.

I really would like to see single payer in this country.



The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening. ― Rosa Luxemburg
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----------------
Response to OKNancy (Reply #15)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:46 AM
msanthrope (22,826 posts)
28. I feel for his wife...but I think posting false insurance information, and calling the President

what he did should get an admin look.

While the name calling is juvenile, the fact that he has not corrected his OP to correct his false claim regarding coverage is troubling.
I haven't changed my avatar once in my 12 years of being on this site. Until now. It's time.
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Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:54 AM
TBF (22,834 posts)
29. I missed this part -

"the fact that he has not corrected his OP to correct his false claim regarding coverage is troubling".

Is there another thread on this or something?

The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening. ― Rosa Luxemburg
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-------------------
Response to TBF (Reply #29)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:57 AM
msanthrope (22,826 posts)
31. Sorry---it is his post #8, that he has been repeatedly admonished on----

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4686037
I haven't changed my avatar once in my 12 years of being on this site. Until now. It's time.
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Response to msanthrope (Reply #31)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 12:10 PM
OKNancy (31,495 posts)
34. and here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024687956
“There is nothing in which people more betray their character than in what they laugh at.”
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------------------
Response to OKNancy (Reply #34)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 12:18 PM
msanthrope (22,826 posts)
35. After reading his second thread, I am gobsmacked--he apparently only appealed the decision today.

So the entire first thread was based on the initial 'no.' Apparently the doctor called twice, but this hasn't even escalated to the letter writing stage by the doctor.

I'm at a loss, here. I have my disabled daughter on two non-formulary drugs, and I've had to go through this process and know the feeling of frustration, but I really think these two threads are way, way, over the line.
I haven't changed my avatar once in my 12 years of being on this site. Until now. It's time.
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----------------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:38 AM
ismnotwasm (15,285 posts)
26. I don't pay attention to the guy much

I do know he's not exactly a huge Obama fan-- which seems to describe a lot of DU. I also know he gets very angry on occasion.

As a nurse I suppose I could comment about these things, but I don't. And it's not appropriate for MIRT. There is more going on with healthcare reimbursement processes' than the ACA.

My husband has MS, so my heart goes out to him-- it's a frightening disease. So while his response was OOT, fear and anger will to that to people.

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---------------
Response to uppityperson (Original post)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 11:30 AM
NYC_SKP (57,963 posts)
32. Alert admins. This OP is so OTT that it really needs to be locked. TOS violation for crazy talk.

There's no clear violation of GD SOP there, but there is a violation of TOS.

"Don't go overboard with the crazy talk"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice
Visit the new DU Progressive Media Resources Group>


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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 05:48 PM

192. My my my...

 

The jury system seems to be driving a few people crazy!

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Response to Rex (Reply #192)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:59 PM

232. The jury system is a democratic process. I don't see why it should drive anyone crazy.

Looks like just a small group of people to me. Most DUers accept the jury decisions whether they go their way or not.

It certainly is eye-opening though to see what goes on behind the scenes.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #232)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:01 PM

268. Serious, I so agree with you. I've had far more shutouts when I do actually send an alert.

 

Doesn't stop me from doing it when I see something I think is wrong.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:09 PM

198. This has been an eye opening week, but that's not the first time

I have seen a thread started in MIRT on someone who has not had a post hidden.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #198)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:17 PM

199. I should have stated sometimes threads are started, absent hide, on newer low post.....

...... count DUers that are "pinging" the troll-dar.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread started, absent a hide, on a long timer that no one suspects of being a zombie or troll.. Unless they are saying Pitt is a zombie or troll???

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #199)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 06:21 PM

200. Yes on newer low post count DUers "pinging" the troll-dar

threads should be and are started. They know Pitt is not a zombie or troll. It was offensive to some. Others saw the fear and emotion behind it.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #199)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:48 PM

229. Will is not a zombie or troll and yes, there have been threads started on old timers. Why post thisq

except to stir up trouble?

Maybe you missed the link at the top of the MIRT forum that gives specific instructions as to how to deal with things regarding MIRT that you disagree with?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #229)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:02 PM

234. I always thought MIRT was only supposed to deal with new members.

Maybe more people need to start signing up for MIRT.

And it's good to have transparency. We are often too trusting of a system we believe is working well. Imo, all forums should be readable to the general DU population including MIRT.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #234)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:05 PM

236. I encourage everyone to do a turn on MIRT to see how it is, what happens. Mostly it is DUers working

together as a true team. MIRT only bans newbies these days, but there has been discussion about longer term DUers also as Admin are MIRT members and it is used as a way to send them a message rather than just emailing them.


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Response to uppityperson (Reply #236)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:12 PM

238. How many members on the MIRT team?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #238)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:19 PM

243. I think this is the current list -

Returning from previous term:

azurnoir
bluesbassman
boston bean
Grateful for Hope
greatauntoftriplets
hootinholler
In_The_Wind
mtnester
petronius
Sissyk
TBF
uppityperson
Violet_Crumble
winter is coming

New this term:

Baitball Blogger
Behind the Aegis
CreekDog
denbot
Go Vols
Hassin Bin Sober
hunter
ismnotwasm
Kali
Kingofalldems
Logical
MineralMan
msanthrope
muriel_volestrangler
NYC_SKP
OKNancy
one_voice
opiate69
pinto
progressoid
Purveyor
SidDithers
X_Digger
zappaman

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Response to TBF (Reply #243)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:23 PM

246. Thank you. n/t

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #238)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:22 PM

245. Announcements forum has the lists and posts sign ups every 3 months. Looks like 38 right now.

If I counted correctly. If I missed and miscounted, somewhere in the 300-40 range. If you scroll down Announcements Forum main page, you can see "Say hello to our new MIR Team!" when they get a new one.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10133512


Looks like the next sign up will be mid-April. After doing 1 term, you can sign up for a second if you wish and then need to take time off.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #245)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:49 PM

260. Thank you for the information. n/t

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #238)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:59 AM

296. 40.

 

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #234)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:18 PM

241. MIRT can only ban new members-

sometimes discussions happen when alerts come in on long-term members. I think this one attracted more replies because Will is so well-known, normally folks say "NMI" and not much else.

"NMI" - not malicious intruder (meaning they are a long-term member and if any action is taken it is by admin).

And, yes, more people should sign up for MIRT.

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Response to TBF (Reply #241)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:25 PM

248. Why does MIRT need to discuss long-term members now that every alert goes to Skinner?

Seems like it would no longer be their jurisdiction.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #248)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:39 PM

253. Alerts come in and folks post them in the

workspace & normally indicate "NMI" - meaning this is for admin and we don't need to look at it. I think it is more habit than anything else (because we also paste in all the alerts on new members and discuss those).

Sometimes if it is a long-term member with low post count or a post attracting attention (as this one did - I'm sure it came up in the Host forum as well) MIRT will alert on it to catch admin's attention. That happens very rarely. And in this case as you can all see EarlG did decide to lock the thread so he must've viewed the discussion as beyond scope.

Generally it is an interesting experience to serve on MIRT and see how many repeat trolls there are, how many spammers there are signing up, etc ... I'd encourage any eligible members to give it a try.

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Response to TBF (Reply #241)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:33 PM

252. But an alert didn't "come in" on Pitt.

A MIRT member "brought in" a 3-3 leave that wasn't the business of MIRT.

That's a piece you may be missing.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #234)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:45 PM

255. Sign up for a term and you'll quickly see why the MIRT forum is restricted-access.

To give you an idea now of what a typical day in MIRT is like, I went back and looked at every thread that was started on Tuesday, the day Will started his other thread.

30 OPs were initiated in MIRT on Tuesday. Of that,

5 OPs were self-deleted as duplicates. When multiple MIRTers each start a thread about the same DUer, the first thread is kept and the others are deleted, in an effort to keep all discussion in the same place.

10 OPs were about trolls who have been PPRed.

5 OPs were about suspected trolls we're still watching.

3 were off-topic or meta OPs. One was good news a MIRTer had received, one was remarking on the number of noobs getting nuked this week, and one was remarking on a cool post a noob had made.

3 were about notifications we'd received that the admins had PPRed someone.

2 were about spammers who have been PPRed.

1 was a thread about a DUer who'd just gotten his fifth hide. Sometimes people who are on enforced "vacations" use sock accounts, so that's a useful thing to know.

1 was the thread about Will Pitt. Incidentally, two of the trolls we nuked were people trolling Will Pitt.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #199)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:32 PM

354. McCarthyite feel to that exchange

Wow. Thanks Hassin Bin Snowden for letting in a little transparency.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:20 PM

206. Thank you for sharing this

I see my favorites all buddied up on the thread too.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 08:28 PM

217. Yea, the thread started out with an alert almost after it started

sure it's rough wording up there at the top. As you read it you see what caused him to go off .
And I see the true value of leaving the thread stand. Through good advice forwarded he made the call and out of that call came relief .Whereas Bin Sober and I think we just might agree on this, if he hadn't received and in turn acted on the advice given through his thread,does it not stand to reason his wife and he would be no better off today than they were the day before ?

There are indeed wise members in the user base here.

Their issues are not resolved, at least they have breathing room now.

The way I see it ,the good that came out of it demonstrates that people helping people can make the difference where it counts the most.

Things get heated, than the heat cools down and that's when it's time to get down on the problem.
And that is exactly what went down.

However clearly division remains.







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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 08:30 PM

220. thank you much for posting thiss

I am pretty disgusted at the gossipy nature of the MIRT thread.

Is MIRT there to judge whether or not Will most efficiently meds for his family?

Is MIRT even there to judgethe words of an OP that has been adjudicated by the jury?

Wow. Does MIRT often judge the off-site actions of members and talk about them?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #220)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 05:33 AM

305. It is disgusting.

Those people should not be MIRT members.

Ya, ya people should step up and volunteer for MIRT, but who wants to deal this type of backstabbing assholeishness?! There is a reason META not longer exists. Truly ugly.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #220)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:37 PM

355. They are the pool for the death panel or Cat Food Commission?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #220)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:40 AM

362. Answers

This is my opinion based on two stints on MIRT


Is MIRT there to judge whether or not Will most efficiently meds for his family? No

Is MIRT even there to judge the words of an OP that has been adjudicated by the jury? Maybe. For those that are possibly "malicious intruders." These are mostly low post count trouble makers or people with a long history of trouble that may actually be trolls.

Wow. Does MIRT often judge the off-site actions of members and talk about them? Mostly no. But I didn't notice that in that thread. The thread was about the post.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:32 PM

222. That's totally uncalled for and I hope the Admins put their foot down on these power trips

You're going to catch hell for sharing that but I admire you for your integrity. Thank you.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:33 PM

223. you know I am a pretty staunch advocate for transparency and there is no rule against this

but what exactly is your purpose for posting this? because it just looks like shit-stirring to me.

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Response to Kali (Reply #223)


Response to Kali (Reply #223)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:02 PM

235. Yes that's exactly what it looks...

like.

I've been on MIRT a number of times and I've never seen this done.

Let's not forget the members that do this volunteer their time. When there are big news stories that impact DU, it's MIRT that works behind the scenes to keep trolls to a limit.

Anyone that's been on MIRT knows it can get hectic and we have to be able to work as a group with a certain amount of trust. To do this is beyond the pale in my opinion.

We do this because we're all part of this community and want to help keep it a good place.

And for everyone that's tsk tsk'ing why don't you volunteer your time before pointing fingers.



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Response to one_voice (Reply #235)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:31 PM

250. Agreed.

I've done 4 MIRT terms, and this is most definitely a first. This move kinda undermines the "teamwork" effort, IMO....

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.......

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #250)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:53 PM

262. You know what is certain to undermine the teamwork in MIRT?

Going after long term DUers.

99.9% of the fun is throwing freepers, spammers and trolls out on their ears. It's fun because it is like having a trash tossing contest with dead ender shitheels as the trash.

I gauranfuckingtee you the landscape will change if it turns in to a lets see who we can get banned today forum. If that's the way it's going to be I would like to submit a few long timers who I think are shit stirrers.

But that's not REMOTELY what MIRT is about. That's why the admins locked the above referenced thread.

I can respect the collegial atmosphere that is supposed to take place in MIRT. Ironically, that's why I'm not going to go into the current thread in MIRT and argue my point where members are having a fit over me posting this information. Once again, MIRT is being used for purposes it wasn't intended for - of course that is being done under the guise of "let's talk about what is acceptable". We'll guess what. Skinner makes the rules about what is acceptable and if he wants to make a new guideline for confidentiality I'm all ears. Until then, I will abide by the collegial rule and keep off topic non MIRT business out of MIRT. Others should do the same.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #262)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:00 PM

267. But DU3 was supposed to be all about Transparency....

Thank you for posting this, Hassin Bin Sober.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #262)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:07 PM

274. Re: This.....

"I gauranfuckingtee you the landscape will change if it turns in to a lets see who we can get banned today forum. If that's the way it's going to be I would like to submit a few long timers who I think are shit stirrers."

Wouldn't we all?

Shit stirrers are most definitely in the eye of the beholder, and some seem to have the run of the place to insult and gossip about members at will.

As far as MIRT is concerned, I'm not arguing the acceptable limits of their scope of duties, as I agree with your general point. I just disagree with the way you chose to "deal" with it, that's all.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #262)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

278. So you thought going after

MIRT'ers also LONG TERM members would help what exactly? That's exactly what you did by posting this here, you know it.

Why didn't you take your concern to Skinner?


"Unfortunately, there may come a time when a member of the MIR Team does not do the job in good faith, does not have the best intentions, or exercises bad judgment. If you think one of your fellow MIR Team members is not doing the job properly, please let the administrators know immediately. You can send us an email, or you can click the Alert Abuse link on a post here in this forum.


I will abide by the collegial rule and keep off topic non MIRT business out of MIRT


People talk about all sorts of off topic things in MIRT--guess you'll be sharing our personal stuff with people too.






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Response to one_voice (Reply #278)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:28 PM

280. This is clear in the instruction page from Skinner.

Please note that only MIR Team members have access to this workspace, but it is not a completely private forum. Other members with access to this forum have not signed any confidentiality agreement, and they are free to discuss with other people what goes on in this workspace and how you do you job.

I think Hassin Bin Sober did what they felt they needed to do. And they are not prohibited from doing so.

"As long as you remain professional and polite in your postings here, you shouldn't have any problems."

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Response to Autumn (Reply #280)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:46 PM

283. Where did I say HBS was

prohibited? I'm pretty I didn't say anything even close to that.

Skinner also said this


"Unfortunately, there may come a time when a member of the MIR Team does not do the job in good faith, does not have the best intentions, or exercises bad judgment. If you think one of your fellow MIR Team members is not doing the job properly, please let the administrators know immediately. You can send us an email, or you can click the Alert Abuse link on a post here in this forum.


Use the link posted in this forum (MIRT) or email.

When you say this:

You know what is certain to undermine the teamwork in MIRT?

Going after long term DUers. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4700553


And then throw that thread out in GD, what exactly was the purpose, if not to go after the MIRT'ers who posted in that thread, also long term DU'ers--

And we're not supposed to be upset about that. I don't care what you say about a no confidentiality agreement, it was a below the belt hit.

That could have been posted without attaching names to it, but take it back a step, since you and HSB keep posting what Skinner said, why wasn't this taken to Skinner, in the manner he indicated.

You can argue that thread shouldn't have been started. The same as I can argue this post in GD shouldn't have been posted. This was not the manner in which Skinner said to let him know if there was a problem.








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Response to one_voice (Reply #283)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:48 PM

284. I was simply addressing your privacy concerns

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Response to Autumn (Reply #284)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

286. Oh..my bad..

I misread/misunderstood.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #278)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:21 AM

298. Yeah because posting a thread from MIRT is the same as trying to get a long term duer banned.

"Sharing personal stuff"

Spare me the drama. Your ATM pins are safe.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #262)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 10:27 AM

317. Admin did not give their reasoning for locking the thread

so you should not claim to speak on their behalf. With an attack on the president (one that would get a short-termer banned at once), coming from Will Pitt (who was himself banned for a time for unacceptable behaviour), it's an acceptable topic of discussion among MIRT.

Did you take this up with the admins before copying the entire conversation here? Or did you just decide to do this by yourself?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:17 PM

240. I would have voted to hide

 

I wasn't on the jury and rarely vote to hide posts, but that was a no-brainer

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:32 PM

251. Horrible

Even more so because it's on what is supposed to be a liberal site. Demonstrates pretty clearly that there's not a lot of difference between many on the left and those on the right.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:39 PM

254. Thanks for that.. I think NYC_SKP's post is key.. bolding mine..

Response to uppityperson (Reply #13)Wed Mar 19, 2014, 11:45 AM
NYC_SKP (57,961 posts)
33. You have my 100% support for posting this.

Despite what others may say, having just one or having four hides on one's record is meaningless in this case.

The jury system is weak protection against crazy talk, especially with "popular" members.

Had a newbie posted such crap, a jury result would have likely been quite different.

I'm all for open discussion in this forum, I don't see the harm.


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Response to Cha (Reply #254)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:47 PM

256. Looks like some of Team MIR went out of their jurisdiction.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #256)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:50 PM

261. So what? If a newbie would have posted that it would have been trolldom but since

Pitt's been here for so long.. it's not MIRT. Glad it was brought up anyway.. some really thoughtful replies in there.

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Response to Cha (Reply #261)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:54 PM

263. MIRT only gets hides, Pitt's thread was 3-3. Skinner now gets all alerts.

Doesn't look like it concerned MIRT at all.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #263)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:00 PM

266. I think you are missing that poster's intent.

The ends justify the means.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #266)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:03 PM

272. I see that now.

<shakes head>

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #266)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:03 PM

273. Whatever.. ooops it got MIRTED.. some good thoughtful replies, nonetheless.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #266)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:03 AM

299. As you totally missed mine. Rather than addressing me or Admin directly, you chose to do this which

is inappropriate.

I have no issue with Will, wish he and his wife the best luck and know how awful MS is from personal as well as professional experience.

My experience was personal information you have now shared with all of DU as well as DU's stalkers, allowing them more fodder for their mills and more information to track me down in real life. And yes, many MIRT members have now deleted other personal information in the "getting to know other mirters" thread as what was previously a work space for mirters where we could speak openly is now not. You have shared some personal information, who knows what else you will share?

As I told EarlG when I pm'd him, I was going back to self delete and lock that thread so it did not turn into a "gossip thread" like you were accusing it of becoming but he beat me to the lock. There was no gossip, just MIRTers addressed the issue of what was written. And one MIRT member writing "shitty" and "bullshit" which was you.

You refuse to join the mirt discussion as to whether or not this was appropriate? Instead you want to continue sniping in public?

I have no desire to do so with you here and will not reply further.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #256)


Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #324)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:30 PM

325. I don't know what will have to be done, but I don't envy Skinner

Having to wade thru it all.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #325)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:53 PM

340. I wouldn't want the job.

It saddens me that one man's pain spawned an uncalled for thread in MIRT. I respect those who can set differences and politics aside at the door. In fact, I made friends with a couple of my fellow MIRTers in the line of duty who are not people I normally agree with in the forums.

There are lot of good people here who take the job seriously.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #340)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:06 PM

345. I think it's pretty clear they want him gone...

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #324)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:41 PM

334. What agenda?

I was pointing out the good that MIRT members do.

How is that an agenda?

Just so I'm clear on this

It's great to shine a light on something that may or may not have been ok. But it's an agenda to shine a light on the good things.

Just for the record, Skinner handled that thread in MIRT hours before HSB posted it. What was the point of posting it in an already contentious thread?

I have done 6 terms on MIRT and NEVER once have I been accused of overstepping.

So have at it...tell me how wrong I was for pointing out the good that MIRT members do/have done.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)


Response to Post removed (Reply #276)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

277. Isn't Transparency a wonderful thing!

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #277)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:31 PM

326. Yes it is! It keeps people honest!

 

One of the best things about DU3 imo.

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Response to Rex (Reply #326)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:34 PM

331. Indeed.

Doesn't prevent melt-downs after facts being revealed, but, hey, no system is perfect.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #331)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:45 PM

336. All families have meltdowns and dirty laundry they don't want the public to see.

 

I think we will be fine, agreed no system is perfect. The transparency here is as close to perfect as we can get.

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Response to Rex (Reply #336)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:50 PM

339. Lol...amen

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)


Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 01:15 AM

297. I understand your point but this was not a good idea.

 

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:53 AM - Edit history (2)

There are ways to deal with this inside mirt. This creates bad feelings.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #297)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:31 PM

327. No, it is the abuse of MIRT as a gossip engine used against those who are not part

 

of MIRT's purview that creates bad feelings, and frankly this attitude that MIRT has a right to secret attack meetings that are not part of MIRT's job does nothing to assuage those bad feelings. I have always suspected that MIRT and hosts are doing lots of gossip about DUers and now we know. The whole cry of 'transparency' seems to have been forgotten in favor of gossip and overreach of petty volunteer powers.
MIRT folks should not use that forum to gossip about long term members who are not part of their job. The jury spoke on Will's thread, MIRT should have accepted that and shut the fuck up.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #327)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:33 PM

329. I am sorry I was on mirt for 6 months and never saw secret attack meetings.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #329)


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #329)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:16 PM

350. Because there weren't any....

People who have concerns about anything nefarious should sign up for a term instead of busting a spleen in GD to feed the drama.

My experiences with MIRT were nothing but above-board and task-oriented. I think the current bugaboo is much ado about nothing, and folks would see this first hand if they took the time to volunteer.

Right, justin?

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #350)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 02:19 PM

351. Yes they should sign up.

 

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #327)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:01 PM

369. This.

 

You're absolutely right, on all points, Bluenorthwest.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 10:11 AM

316. Thank you, Hassin Bin Sober.



In your post, I notice the text for the MIRT "Super powers" button, and it cracks me up (for obvious reasons).

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:15 PM

322. Thanks for posting this here, Hassin Bin Sober.

Very eye-opening.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #190)

Fri Mar 21, 2014, 12:36 PM

332. My respect for a few DUers just went to zero. Two-faced backstabbers

 

trying to get a long-time DUer booted. Good thing you posted this so that their shame can be public. I disagree with Will Pitt often enough, but there is absolutely no way he is a right-wing disruptor, that is utterly absurd. For those who defended him, my respect went way up.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #332)

Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:01 PM

368. Agreed.

 

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