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Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:01 AM

Canadian doctor schools U.S.Republican Senator on public health care

A Toronto doctor snidely held her own Tuesday after an obscure U.S. Senate subcommittee hearing suddenly turned into a quarrel over the purported deadliness of Canadian health care.

“On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year? Do you know?” Republican Senator Richard Burr asked at the end of a prickly exchange with Dr. Danielle Martin, vice president of Medical Affairs at Toronto’s Women’s College Hospital.

“I don’t, sir, but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all,” she said.


An hour into the hearing, Sen. Burr, an anti-Obamacare senator from North Carolina, zeroed in on the Canadian representative, Dr. Martin, to ask “why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?”


she replied “there are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years.

Mr. Burr smiled and followed up with the question “what do you say to an elected official who goes to Florida and not the Canadian system to have a heart valve replacement?”

“It’s actually interesting,” replied Dr. Martin, “because in fact the people who are the pioneers of that particular surgery … are in Toronto, at the Peter Munk Cardiac Center, just down the street from where I work.”


More put downs .... and thank you Canada also this story is big news in Canada.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/12/toronto-doctor-smacks-down-u-s-senate-question-on-canadian-waitlist-deaths/



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Reply Canadian doctor schools U.S.Republican Senator on public health care (Original post)
Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 OP
polly7 Mar 2014 #1
malaise Mar 2014 #2
mnhtnbb Mar 2014 #3
freebrew Mar 2014 #6
VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #26
airplaneman Mar 2014 #54
bulloney Mar 2014 #47
ctsnowman Mar 2014 #4
jsr Mar 2014 #5
watoos Mar 2014 #7
rurallib Mar 2014 #8
DeSwiss Mar 2014 #9
murphyj87 Mar 2014 #95
SunSeeker Mar 2014 #10
merrily Mar 2014 #11
allan01 Mar 2014 #12
AlbertCat Mar 2014 #13
Enthusiast Mar 2014 #14
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #60
packman Mar 2014 #15
toby jo Mar 2014 #19
tblue37 Mar 2014 #16
polly7 Mar 2014 #17
BobTheSubgenius Mar 2014 #81
polly7 Mar 2014 #89
HockeyMom Mar 2014 #18
riverbendviewgal Mar 2014 #28
LittleGirl Mar 2014 #40
subterranean Mar 2014 #46
TxDemChem Mar 2014 #20
SDjack Mar 2014 #21
Paulie Mar 2014 #85
laundry_queen Mar 2014 #22
riverbendviewgal Mar 2014 #29
laundry_queen Mar 2014 #64
Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #61
laundry_queen Mar 2014 #63
Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #67
u4ic Mar 2014 #76
CanSocDem Mar 2014 #23
CRK7376 Mar 2014 #24
riverbendviewgal Mar 2014 #25
AnneD Mar 2014 #45
marlakay Mar 2014 #52
FiveGoodMen Mar 2014 #57
harun Mar 2014 #71
Overseas Mar 2014 #96
Laelth Mar 2014 #27
geretogo Mar 2014 #30
xchrom Mar 2014 #31
WinstonSmith4740 Mar 2014 #32
rocktivity Mar 2014 #33
tecelote Mar 2014 #34
Jeff In Milwaukee Mar 2014 #35
louis-t Mar 2014 #36
rtracey Mar 2014 #37
CanonRay Mar 2014 #38
Blue Idaho Mar 2014 #39
alp227 Mar 2014 #41
Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #42
polly7 Mar 2014 #43
secondvariety Mar 2014 #53
magical thyme Mar 2014 #44
LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #48
malaise Mar 2014 #49
swilton Mar 2014 #50
Bette Noir Mar 2014 #51
fascisthunter Mar 2014 #55
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #56
cui bono Mar 2014 #58
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #59
SereneG Mar 2014 #62
riverbendviewgal Mar 2014 #68
pacalo Mar 2014 #72
passiveporcupine Mar 2014 #65
loudsue Mar 2014 #66
TrollBuster9090 Mar 2014 #69
Mnemosyne Mar 2014 #83
TrollBuster9090 Mar 2014 #86
pacalo Mar 2014 #70
bkanderson76 Mar 2014 #73
ThoughtCriminal Mar 2014 #74
YOHABLO Mar 2014 #75
LineLineNew Reply .
emmadoggy Mar 2014 #90
YOHABLO Mar 2014 #77
gulliver Mar 2014 #78
Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #79
reformist2 Mar 2014 #80
El Shaman Mar 2014 #82
Iwillnevergiveup Mar 2014 #84
jmowreader Mar 2014 #87
barbtries Mar 2014 #88
question everything Mar 2014 #91
rocktivity Mar 2014 #92
Dirty Socialist Mar 2014 #93
rocktivity Mar 2014 #94

Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:57 AM

1. I watched that and was pissed off instantly at his condescending smugness.

When she tried to fully answer a question completely or respond to some of the false info he was presenting, he cut her off. I'm glad she was able to get out what she did.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:03 AM

2. Love it

Rec

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:06 AM

3. And here's another one for you, Senator A$$hole from NC

sad to say, the state where I live.

When I needed a hip replacement in 2007 I could not get the procedure I wanted done--
(anterior approach) developed by a California orthopedist some 20 years earlier after
seeing a modified version of it in France--locally at either UNC Hospitals or Duke or in Raleigh.
No orthopedists locally were trained to do it. Instead I went to Charlotte and had it done by an orthopedist who had learned it,
yes, on a fellowship in CANADA.

So, go f*ck yourself, Burr, and your Koch brother cousin, Art Pope.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:58 AM

6. In 1981, I had a radial keratotomy...

developed in the USSR and taught to my opthamologist in Moscow. The AMA didn't recognize this procedure and forced me to pay an 'AMA' doctor to attempt talking me out of it - 'we don't recommend surgery on healthy tissue'.

I was near blind, could not get into Navy or Air Force academies(thank dog, now).

The surgery was successful and ended up w/20/20 vision.
At the time, the insurance company paid for near all of it, except the AMA doctor fee.

So, in my opinion, healthcare here has always been a crap shoot, but since early 1990's the insurance companies are screwing us too.

Should have moved to Canada in 1970...

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Response to freebrew (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 01:13 PM

26. I agree...take Dental implants...they have been doing this for over 20 yrs

 

and still it is not covered by insurance!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:44 PM

54. its more like this

you cannot see - not covered
you cannot hear - not covered
you cannot chew - now covered
you cannot pee - well now your covered.
-Airplane

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:11 PM

47. People like Sen. Burr want to believe the U.S. health care system is light years above

all other countries' systems. All of the other countries, especially Canada, rely on leaches and witch doctors, if you listen to their drivel. They always throw out the waiting lists and the rationed system and the other rhetoric they regurgitate from the RW talk shows.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:48 AM

4. K & R

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:58 AM

5. Outstanding.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:02 AM

7. I'm retired now

 

but when working, I worked a lot, all over Canada. I heard the Canadian health care horror stories so I made it a point to ask Canadians about their health care. I probably asked 100 people. Their consensus was that indeed, if you had something non life threatening you are going to wait longer for treatment than in the US because there are poor people in line ahead of you in Canada. If you have a life threatening issue, you are taken care of immediately. My final question to them was, would you trade your health care for our US health care? No one, I repeat, no one said they would trade.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:04 AM

8. I heard this last night on the Canadian radio show "As It Happens"

which is the CBC version of "All Things Considered."
The hosts were, shall we say, quite proud of their doctor.

I had no idea if any US news(?) outlets would mention this.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:05 AM

9. K&R

 

- In this battle of wits it is clear that it was the Senator who came unarmed.


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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:26 AM

95. A battle of wits with the unarmed

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:08 AM

10. K & R

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:18 AM

11. We're Number One! (Not)

A 2000 World Health Organization ranked us 37th, but that study has not been updated. So, FactCheck now takes criticism of that study--which probably came most from U.S. Republicans--into account. How accommodating of them.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/37th-in-health-performance/

On the other hand, it does mention a 2007 study that ranked the US last among industrialized nations.


Trouble is, this isn't poetry. All opinions about it are not equally valid. (For that matter, I never even though all opinions about poetry were equally valid, but that's another story entirely.)

Bottom line: Republicans have been telling a lot of lies about U.S. health care and they have no reason to stop before midterms, either.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:20 AM

12. re:Canadian doctor schools U.S.Republican Senator on public health care

seantor, how does this solve the countrys budget problems . infastructure problems and does this bring the solders home from afganastan and shut down gitmo . no it strokes ony one thing, your ego dear sir

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:33 AM

13. Sen. Burr, an anti-Obamacare senator from North Carolina,

 

I'm from NC, and I tell you:

He's not an " anti-Obamacare senator from North Carolina"....


He's a low profile Koch/Art Pope/Corporate lackey used by the GOP to do their dirty work, like anonymously hold up Senate bills for no reason and ask stupid questions on committees like in this instance. He'll do anything they tell him to do. Pitiful.

Thank god for Kay Hagan, who usually cancels out Burr's bought and paid for vote. The Koch's are spending more to defeat her this year than any other senator.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:39 AM

14. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 06:24 PM

60. Well I did my part. Recommended 5 times. nm

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:44 AM

15. Go CANADA

Great bacon, great beer, excellent hockey teams and good people. Any country that has a plan to ward off the Zombie Apocalypse has my vote.

Burr "Why did Sarah Palin as a child and her family go to Canada to get their health care?"

Dr. Martin "Because even as dumb as they were, they realized they could get better and cheaper health care in Canada than in the backwoods of Alaska. And I apologize to the American people for keeping her healthy and not having her committed."

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Response to packman (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:05 AM

19. I love Canada. The people are great.

 

Had an incident a few years ago involving forged papers on a racehorse in order to attempt to steal her. Local officials, up to the county level were flummoxed at how to handle it, "It's international, you know." Pissed me the fuck off. So I began calls to Canadian officials. Everyone of them were intelligent, I would say much more so, than anybody I contacted in the states. I wound up speaking to somebody at the highest level, I forget the title, in their provincial legal system, and he handed me all the facts as they needed to be presented, and what I would need to do.

Called the local prosecutor up and fed it to him.

He was pissed.

Sorry for the language, but god do we raise dickless fucks over here.

Oh, yeah, and they are unfailingly polite. (got the horse back, she's out grazing now)

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:54 AM

16. The elected official can afford the surgery in Florida. For those

who have money, the US healthcare system is usually (not always!) the best. But for MOST Americans, such quality of care is either completely inaccessible, or accessible only at the expense of long term financial distress. Even with insurance, many Americans end up struggling to pay what their insurance doesn't cover, and before the ACA, once they used their insurance to cover medical costs, many were dropped by their insurance companies and became uninsurable, or else they ran into a lifetime payment cap.

The claim of superiority in US medical care ignores the fact that most Americans are excluded from access to the best care if they lack insurance, and that even with insurance, all too many are still likely to be financially ruined by any serious medical treatment.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:02 AM

17. The Peter Munk Cardiac Centre, pioneers of the surgery he received:

PMCC FIRSTS IN CARDIOLOGY
​​For more than 75 years, we have been leading the way in innovative cardiac discoveries:


1935: First clinical use of heparin

1950: First pacemaker

1955: First successful valve transplant

1965: First coronary intensive care unit

1980: First prospective study of iliac angioplasty

1985: First mitral valve chordal replacement with expanded olytetrafluoroethylene

1986: First stentless aortic valve

1987: First aortic valve replacement using the Toronto Heart Valve

1988: First aortic valve-sparing operation

1990: First viral heart disease genetic test

1999: First sleep apnea clinical trial

2006: First discovery of the “SOS distress signal”

2009: First heart monitor recorder – CARTO 3 System

http://www.uhn.ca/PMCC

He also said he would inevitably have been seen as a queue-jumper if treated in Canada. But Dr. Jeanmart in Montreal said prompt care is available when the individual case is acute. The Peter Munk Cardiac Centre in Toronto said it has no extensive waiting list for any heart surgery at the moment.

"This is my heart, it's my health, it's my choice," Mr. Williams said. Of course it's his choice, but it reflects on the quality of medicare. The message he has sent by word and deed is that Canadian medicine is stuck in the past century.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/a-choice-that-belittles-canada/article4388327/

More on that surgery:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/williamss-heart-surgery-choice-was-based-on-ignorance/article1365308/

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Response to polly7 (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:02 AM

81. "prompt care is available when the individual case is acute"

I had a Staph A infection in two of my heart valves, which eventually moved into the heart muscle itself. My case was pretty acute indeed, and I went from intake to ICU to surgery in under 48 hours.

An additional stroke of luck. The cardiac unit here is the top-rated in Canada, and the #3 unit in NA, based on survival rates.

A conservative estimate of the cost of my various tests, procedures, and recuperative programs was about $300,000. My out-of-pocket....zero.

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Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #81)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:11 AM

89. Very scary stuff.

I'm so glad you're alright and got the care you needed that quickly!

Absolutely there are waiting times for elective surgery and we all complain about them to some extent, but I've never once seen a case of someone with an acute or even serious condition go without timely diagnostics and treatment. My ex's mother and father in law used to cross the border for dental treatment because it was cheaper and not covered here - that's something that IS wrong with our system.

Continued good health to you!


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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:05 AM

18. My husband gets his meds from Canada through the mail

90 day supply. How did he find out about doing this? His US DOCTOR told him how to. Yes, he has insurance but is still cheaper to pay out of pocket from Canada.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 01:29 PM

28. In Canada our government negotiates with the pharmas

to get these prices...

Tell your senator and congressman to do this too.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:35 PM

40. +1 That's what is missing in the

ACA

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:06 PM

46. That is not allowed here.

In fact, Medicare is explicitly prohibited from negotiating drug prices.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:07 AM

20. She definitely held her own.

I like this Dr. Martin!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:24 AM

21. Much to do about very small differences

US Congressional Hearings love to compare the performance of USA and Canadian healthcare because the two systems have some differences that allow the Senator from NC to find a few areas in which USA may be doing better. That is expected, as the subjective WHO country health system rankings (2000) were: Canada #30 and USA #37, which are poor scores for both countries. The Canadian witness should have said: the failing of both countries is not striving to overtake #1 France. Indeed, jawboning our case to be considered better than Canada in any healthcare element is not a worthy achievement for either country. Overtaking France should be our goal.

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Response to SDjack (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:47 AM

85. French docs make house calls. That ain't gonna fly here

USA USA USA sigh

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:27 AM

22. The one thing I didn't care for in that article was this

"According to a 2013 Fraser Institute report on Canadian wait times, the median wait time stands at 18.2 weeks"

Median wait time for WHAT? You can't just say, 'the wait time is...' because every procedure is SO different and has drastically different wait times...even from province to province.

For the most part - if you are having an elective surgery that isn't related to a severe illness or if time isn't of the essence, you may wait a bit. How long is a crapshoot depending on where you live, what procedure and if there is a shortage of doctors or not. That said, nearly everyone in my family has had elective surgery at one time or another, and no one waited very long at all. I think my dad's hip replacement was the longest - 3 months - because he opted for a new procedure for active people and only one doctor in the province did that procedure at the time. If he wanted conventional hip surgery, the wait would've been 6 weeks. Oh wait, I did have an uncle that needed a very specific spine surgery and only 1 doctor in the country did it...he waited quite awhile, but that was because he kept backing out when it was his turn to schedule. If he'd have pushed for the surgery sooner, he could've gotten in within 4 or 5 months. For general surgeries though, like my gallbladder or my daughter's bilateral trigger thumbs - a couple of weeks was all we waited. I'm sure many, many Americans would be okay with waiting a few weeks if it meant zero medical bills afterwards.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 01:31 PM

29. This link is for the Ontario surgery wait time

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:02 PM

64. Thanks.

Just as I thought, wait times vary widely, even within the same general area. A good doctor will sign you up with a hospital that has lower wait times, if you are willing to drive an extra 10-20 min or so. For instance, I checked the wait times my area for shoulder surgery...in the urban area, wait time was 12 weeks and in the 'burbs, it was 2 weeks. If you were willing to drive to the burbs, you could get it done much sooner.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 07:33 PM

61. I have insurance in the USA,

and I had to wait 3 months just for an appointment with a gastroenterologist when I was vomiting blood. I don't think it can get worse if we have universal coverage here.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 07:57 PM

63. I'm sorry to hear that

but I'm glad you said that...I have been in many online discussions about waiting lists and from what I understand, everyone has to wait a little while to get into specialists or get surgeries. About the same time my daughter had her bilateral trigger thumbs operated on, an online friend of mine from the US, with great insurance BTW, had a child with the same issue. I think the difference in waiting time was a week? Plus, part of the reason we waited so long is we lived in a remote community and had to travel to meet with the specialist and get the surgery (so 2 trips of a 6.5 hour drive one way, yes we had to stay in a hotel). In the end, the difference for an elective, non-emergent surgery was totally negligible. And I had no co-pays or deductibles to deal with, or any headaches involved with getting pre-approval for surgery. The doctor orders the surgery here, it's automatically 'pre-approved'. So, a lot less headaches in total. And equally good care. It's a no brainer to me. The only thing holding single payer back is propaganda and the insurance lobby.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:32 PM

67. All was well in the end.

But it wasn't like I had instant care because I live in the US. Anyone who talks about "wait times" in Canada just hasn't dealt with the situation in the US.

And I cost me most of my $5000 deductible to have the endoscopy between the hospital charges, the specialist charges, the anesthesiologist charges, and all the other bullshit charges.

Yes, single payer is being held back by propaganda (put out there by the insurance lobby). Of course the insurance industry is fighting....for their lives. I don't understand how so many people can't see that.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:25 PM

76. I wouldn't trust ANYTHING from the Fraser Institute

Very good response by the way.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:46 AM

23. Is this the USA discussing health care?

 



A senate committee made up of the only public servant in the United States and, despite the overwhelming support in the belief of 'public health' by the "expert witnesses", the rest of the panel is made up of senators frighteningly confused about the concept of health.

Except for one loony ex-Canadian schooled with her own mothers horror story, all the experts agreed that "people had a right to health care." This is free market heresy. Next thing you know, people will think they have a right to drive Cadillacs.

.



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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 12:52 PM

24. Of Course it would be

my state's idiotic Senator Richard Burr opening his mouth and spreading more stupidity. But then he is a product of the Winston-Salem Forsyth County School System and we all know that NC is ranked right there at the bottom of the barrel for teacher's pay (NC is ranked 46th in teacher pay). But he is also a product of Wake Forest University and should have learned something at that fine University. I know I did and I came out of the same WSFC School system he did, about the same time too. Oh well, every state has its own burdens to carry and Burr is one of our burdens. Oh yeah, Go Deacs, beat Pitt in the ACC tournament!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 01:09 PM

25. Wait time in Canada depends on the illness

Last year I had gone to my optometrist for vision problem. Within 5 minutes he sent me out the door to go to the specialist 200 km away . I live in the rural north. My town of population 1300 has a hospital but not an eye surgeon. My optometrist called the surgeon and when I arrived the surgeon saw me and in 3 hours I was getting laser surgery I had a detached retina. I didn't have to stay in the hospital. The Provincial health care paid for my gas in a travel grant..
It did that for my two check ups

I was just called up for my every two year mammogram. I had to postpone it because I will be traveling other wise I could have gotten in a week in the next town's hospital 30 minute drive. I get an annual physical. I will be getting an ultrasound in a couple weeks in my own town's hospital. I could have gotten it 3 weeks ago but I had to postpone due to traveling.

My son and husband were diagnosed 2 months apart with brain cancer and Non Hodgkin's lymphoma They were healthy all their lives so it was so unexpected. My 25 year old son suddenly had seizures, Got a MRI the same day and 3 days later was getting brain surgery. My husband was diagnosed and saw the specialists and got his chemo the same day he saw the head hematologist Between them they had 4 surgeries, radiation sessions, several types of chemo, stem cell transplant. My husband was in the hospital for a month for his chemo and stem cell transplant. He was in Palliative care for 3 months. Our son was in ICU for 4 weeks and palliative care for a week. Both were in Palliative care in the hospitals they were being treated.
They each had psychotherapy sessions and we all had it as a family.
Our costs: ZERO

Correction we had to pay for the hospital parking.

PS: I looked up the hip replacement wait in Toronto Eastern Hospital (they specialize in replacements) .... 191 days... My friend has gone to the hospital for hip and knee replacements. She says they are excellent.
My other friend had calcium scraping on both knees. That was done over the xmas holidays as she works as a school bus driver. From the time she saw the specialist until he did it . 3 months.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA????? Canadians listen to Americans diss Canadian health care and can not believe what they are hearing. PLEASE!!!!
Canadians have voted Tommy Douglas the greatest Canadian to ever have lived. He was premier of Saskatchewan and started Canadian health care system.

I have holidayed in the USA and there are people there who have no health care and can only go to the emergency room....My above family problems could not be solved in one emergency room visit. Plus the U.S. bill collectors go after those who have to resort to that.

Never would I want to partake in the American health system...it is for profit only. Many people are turned away or have to rely on friends having spaghetti dinners to raise money for their medical bills. So sad. Keep on getting those air carriers.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:55 PM

45. When I visited my daughter...

in Vancouver, I heard similar stories. As a Nurse, I triage all the time. Many of the stories I have heard with long waiting time for procedures were really not emergencies and it was safe to postpone for a more urgent need. That is the way it is done in most of the world. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean you snap your fingers and get it right then.

When RWNJs, including my mom throw out that decaying old chestnut, I always say, 'at least in Canada they can get the hip replacement done in 18 mos. How long do you think it will take you to get it replaced with no insurance here in the states. And even if you have insurance, what will your out of pocket be.' That usually shuts them down long enough to use their 2 remaining brain cell to think about it.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:23 PM

52. I have two friends who married Canadians

Over 30 years ago, throughout their lives they have had regular doctor visits, husband with lung operation, babies, etc and feel sorry for their families in USA without the care.

Every time I hear of all these so called bad experiences with healthcare there I talk about my friends because I know them, not some article I read but these are real people to me!

They both are in BC now but one lived for years near Toronto.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 05:50 PM

57. "WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA?????"

We don't punish people for lying.

That leads to just about everything else that's gone wrong.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:32 PM

71. Greed and racism. That is what is wrong with America.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 20, 2014, 09:43 AM

96. Thank you for sharing your experience.

My Canadian friend gets great healthcare too.

It is so sad that our reporters can't be as brave as that Canadian doctor because their networks are supported by so much advertising from our cruel For Profit medical system.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 01:21 PM

27. k&r for the truth. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 01:38 PM

30. Die quickly

Doesn't this Canadian doctor know the Republicans have the best healthcare
plan for the American people ? They should have explained to her their plan
that says " don't get sick , if you do die quickly ". That's their best plan and it costs
nothing . The Republicans are so pro life .

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 02:22 PM

31. du rec.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 02:29 PM

32. Some day...

Some day, I just don't know when, I hope someone, anyone, on our side of the political aisle will point out to these cretins that Emergency Room care IS NOT FREE!!!! It also is not long term. Emergency room care will stabilize and treat an immediate problem, i.e., heart attack, stroke, gun-shot wound, etc., but the long term care needed in the aftermath is totally separate. A bill still exists, but if the person who was being treated can't pay for it, everyone else just gets to pay it in the form of higher costs in the hospital, and higher insurance costs.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 02:32 PM

33. George Galloway lives!



Absolutely fabulous, sweetie darling!


rocktivity

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 02:39 PM

34. K&R

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 02:41 PM

35. I love Canadian healthcare and Tim Hortons

Although the two may be mutually exclusive...

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:07 PM

36. Burr never learned the basics of asking questions.

If you're smart, you never ask a question that you don't know the answer to.

Dumbass.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:07 PM

37. Hero

 

She has become my new hero....and Bernie Sanders, i believe is mentally laughing his butt off at her responses. Sanders being from Vermont, and soon to be single payer healthcare.......good on both

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:16 PM

38. Like a Republican Senator give a crap what the facts are

they haven't been interested in the truth for some time.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:32 PM

39. Exactly right...

Teapublicans use congressional committee hearings like the show trials conducted by Roland Freisler in the 1940s. Not one elected teapublican is the least bit interested in seeking truth - they are only interested in advancing their own bigoted hate filled agenda.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:37 PM

41. BTW National Post is a right wing source (in the Canadian sense though)

And i wonder how Dr. Martin pronounces 45,000, "45 toes end"?

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Response to alp227 (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:40 PM

42. I took this from the CBC

at first but the post had more of the transcript, whereas the CBC just had the video.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:43 PM

43. Here is the video of part of it,

#t=13

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Response to polly7 (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:38 PM

53. The video

made my day.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 03:52 PM

44. Senator Burr does not seem to understand that the emergency room is not the place to receive

 

primary care or diagnoses. The training and the setup is geared toward trauma and tabilizing acute onsets of symptoms (and then get pts to an appropriate facility).

Aside from the fact that it is far more expensive, and far less effective or efficient, that good primary care.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:11 PM

48. She didn't really school him. If she had, he would have learned something.

Since he already knows all the wrong answers, it's not possible to school him at all.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:12 PM

49. This would be news everywhere is M$Greedia was not all about the 1%

Fugg 'em.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:14 PM

50. Please, Please, Please

 

Have this make the evening news!!!

Not the entire hour long segment - just a few choice sound-bites from as it was put asshole from NC.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:23 PM

51. I remember the story of the "Canadian official" who went to Florida for heart surgery.

It was winter. Canadians don't find snow romantic; they'd rather winter in Florida. Duh.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:45 PM

55. How to Argue with Sociopaths; argue with Empathy

 

and watch their heads explode or their absolute inability to understand.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 05:11 PM

56. Same article in LATimes, "Watch an expert teach a smug U.S. senator about

 

Canadian Healthcare"

I just thought people should see the headline that a lot of people in the US will see.

Here.

Thank you for posting that.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 06:04 PM

58. Thom Hartmann was talking about this today.

Good for her.

Why does our country have to have so many idiots in office? So sad.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 06:23 PM

59. I dont know anything first hand about the Canadian health care system. And I hear

 

it's much better than the government run system in England. And the English system is better than what millions of Americans have to deal with. When I was in England a couple of years ago, there was a article on the tv news. The health care system was having difficulty deciding on how to spend money between taking on new glaucoma patients vs. giving better care to those already being treated. The article interviewed patients from each side. A conservative friend said that we wouldnt have that problem in the good ole USofA. I agreed and added that none of similar people in the USofA would get treatment for their glaucoma at all. In other words, the line for treatment in England was long, and there was no line in the USofA. There was no line because there was no treatment for the millions without insurance.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 07:53 PM

62. Firsr Hand Knowledge

 

I have been reading this forum for many years but not until now did I sign on as a member.

5 years ago, I was diagnosed with HOKUN which is Hydrtropic Cardiac Myopathy. It means I was born with a closed valve and not until later I life did I collapse from it as athletes have done. I lived in the US with Medical Insurance but because my American husband had lost his job and after 4 weeks I would have no Insurance it was apparent that I would have to return to Canada as the doctors were not scheduling any surgery due to the fact they knew my Insurance was ending. I returned to Canada where I was referred to the Peter Munk Heart Center. Within that week after reading my medical records the grandfather of this Procedure (HOKUM) saw me ( Dr. Wigle). Upon his recommendation, the Heart Surgeon that would perform this Procedure saw me within 2 days. After MRI scans he immediately wanted to admit me right away as he said that I wouldn't survive another month if surgery wasn't done. This was on a Thursday and by the Monday after I was been prepped for surgery.

I have always seen Red when Republican Politicians in the USA say crap about the Canadian Health Care system and waiting times. I AM FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE! I AM ALIVE TODAY BECAUSE OF IT.

YEAAH TO CANADA, CANADIANS AND CANADIAN HEALTHCARE!! And to Dr. Danielle Martin.. WTG!

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Response to SereneG (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:36 PM

68. you are awesome.

As a fellow Canadian I thank you for the perfect rebuttal to those ugly ignorant republicans. I am so happy to hear your story and that you are alive. Yay to Canada and our health care for ALL Canadians, rich or poor.

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Response to SereneG (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:41 PM

72. Thanks for your sharing your experience, SereneG.

And welcome to DU!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:13 PM

65. I wish I could have responded to something Dr. Bob Hogberg said

He was talking to the representative from Denmark, and in his effort to show that our system is better he used some statistics from Denmark's single payer system. He said that in Denmark, they rationed care by making people wait for treatment. They have a 48 day waiting period for herniated disc repair. Well, Dr. Hogberg, let me tell you about my experience here with something much worse than a herniated disc (which I've also experienced). I had a cyst in my spinal column that ruptured when I was knocked down by my dogs. I was in so much pain, I had to hold onto furniture and walls to walk, and could not bump anything or twist my body in any way, without risk of falling. I walked like a zombie for over 80 days because that's how long it took me to get the surgery I needed.

First I had to wait two weeks for my insurance to kick in (something that would not have happened in a single payer system). I was on a new job and there was a 45 day waiting period for insurance to kick in. So I waited two weeks to see a primary care doctor. The doctor prescribed an x-ray, which showed nothing (cysts don't show up on x-rays). Because he had no proof of a problem with the x-ray, the insurance company would not authorize an MRI. So he had me go to physical therapy for 4 weeks, which just made it worse, and was absolutely the wrong thing to do. Then when therapy didn't work, he finally sent me in for an MRI, and they saw the cyst, but I had to wait another week to get another MRI because they wanted better pictures. Then he sent me to a neurosurgeon. It took two weeks to get in to see him, and another two weeks to schedule the surgery. So I was in very serious pain for eleven weeks before getting it fixed...with this wonderful "for profit" insurance system of ours.

By the time I got my surgery, the nerve damage was so severe, I ended up with permanent nerve damage. All I can say is, I would have much preferred a 48 day waiting period to the almost 80 days I had to wait because of the "rationing" of our for-profit insurance scam (I mean system) we have in this country.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:17 PM

66. Burr is our senator in NC. He's a horse's ass.

This proved it once and for all.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:15 PM

69. SALLY PIPES SHILL ALERT: (Just FYI)

Every time I see Sally Pipes spreading her anti-healthcare garbage I want to barf. But I'm not surprised the Republicans invited her. She's part of the wingnut welfare crowd.

Just FYI, there are two paid shills who Republicans usually invite to these dog and pony shows. One is Sally Pipes, who runs a paid, right-wing 'think tank' (aka Propaganda outlet) whose soul purpose is to put out propaganda trashing single payer healthcare systems with cherry picked data. No surprise she appeared here.

The other standard paid shill the Republicans usually invite is Dr. David Gratzer, who was trained as a psychiatrist in Canada, wrote a (self-published) book about how shitty the Canadian healthcare system is WHILE HE WAS STILL A MEDICAL STUDENT, and had no experience of it; and (like his commrade Charles Krauthammer) soon discovered that there was a lot more money to be made as a paid propagandists than there is as a doctor; and moved to NY to do that before ever having seen a single patient.

Gratzer is usually their token Canadian doctor that they always invite to trash the Canadian healthcare system. I don't understand why they didn't invite him! They must be slipping.

I can only conclude that Gratzer is affraid to show up at any hearing where Sanders is present, because the last time he was invited to a hearing with progressives present, Dennis Kuchinich ripped him a new asshole.

Watch this video of Kuchinich taking the little turd apart. It'll make your day.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Reply #69)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:34 AM

83. Excellent video, TB! He nailed that smug creep hard. Thanks. nt

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Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #83)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 03:28 AM

86. You're welcome! :) nt

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 09:30 PM

70. After the meeting, I saw a beaming Sen. Sanders telling Dr. Martin, "You did good."

Dr. Martin was particularly impressive, given the fact that she was seated between two ideologue witnesses brought in by Sen. Burr. To describe those two witnesses as goofy is being kind.

Following Dr. Martin's sensible, fair-minded approach in her introductory statement (at 38:31, at the OP's link), Dr. Hogberg's statement (at 44:21) showed how our country's dysfunctional, partisan politics are the real problem.

An excerpt that I transcribed:

Dr. Hogberg: We should avoid putting more & more of our health care in control of politicians. Most politicians want to get re-elected & that fact will have a substantial impact on health care policy.

Groups that have political clout (and) can influence a politician's re-election chances are more likely to get good treatment under government-run health care systems. Groups that lack such clout are more likely to be neglected by politicians & receive inferior care.


Sally Pipes, another Republican ideologue witness, was no better during the questioning. At one point, she talked over Sen. Sanders to praise Paul Ryan's proposal for Medicare. Sen. Sanders threw a bucket of water on that with, "You mean vouchers".


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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:18 PM

73. Senator Burr needs a slap upside the head to remind him he's not

talking to some backwoods cajun from Louisiana happy to be gigging frogs for Jindal.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 10:26 PM

74. Lines would be shorter at Disneyland

if you excluded say, anybody who had blonde hair from getting in line.

In the United States, we can shorten the wait time for non-emergency care by making it financially impossible for 50 million people. But then, one of the reasons you have such a long wait in the emergency room, is that it is crowded with people who would not be there if they had received routine medical care before the pain was too unbearable.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #74)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:17 PM

75. Yes,Yes, and Yes!

 

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #74)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:25 PM

90. .

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:30 PM

77. Candadian Docs vs U.S. Docs: what is the comparison in wealth? Is there info on this?

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:32 PM

78. Her point about the 45,000 dying is politically counterproductive with Mr. Hyde.

It might sound like a good smack down to you and me.

But no, the Senator scored points with a lot of the Mr. Hydes who were listening. Because if the right 45,000 die to keep the right others from having to wait, that's fine with Mr. Hyde. To win with Hyde, she needed to follow up by pointing out that people in Canada don't wait that long, don't have to pay an arm and a leg, don't have to hassle about a giant mass of paperwork, don't have to worry about what their PPO or HMO think, don't have to worry about losing their health insurance with their jobs.

Empathy and selfishness have to go hand in hand. And the selfishness should be emphasized. The primary selling points for the ObamaCare unconvinced are all selfish. It's just damned good for old number one. And that's a fact that scares the Republicans. Unenlightened selfishness is their bread and butter, and it argues for ObamaCare.

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Response to gulliver (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:47 PM

79. I disagree, I think it's a compelling argument...

It's so compelling that Republicans have to delude themselves into believing that it doesn't really happen in order to sleep at night. I had this argument with a friend of mine. She kept saying "but, every doctor I know gives free medical care to those who can't afford it" or "they can go to the emergency room" and I kept repeating "45,000 die a year from treatable diseases in the richest country on earth, it's a simple fact". Once she'd wrapper her head around that, we stopped discussing IF we needed universal health care and moved on to WHAT exactly that would entail.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 11:54 PM

80. Repugs like him are so wrapped up in USA-ism, they become totally divorced from reality.


It's like they literally cannot believe - as in, they are not mentally capable of processing - the possibility, the reality, that the US is falling behind other nations in health care, and other things.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:58 AM

82. And Mark said,

“It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.”


― Mark Twain-

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:34 AM

84. I kept wondering who Dr. Martin reminded me of

Then it came to me: Sandra Fluke! Smart, prepared, great communicator, fearless!

Huge K&R

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:56 AM

87. How I'd like to have answered that

"Senator, do you know what percentage of US personal bankruptcy filings are brought on by medical debt?"

(Mr. Burr does a little hemming and hawing)

"Senator, over 60 percent of US personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, and the majority of those people had health insurance.

"The reality is, the United States has a Rolls-Royce healthcare system."

(Mr. Burr starts to smile at this reference.)

"Don't get happy too quick, Senator. When was the last time you actually saw a Rolls on the road? They're very expensive. They're expensive to buy. To insure. And to put tires on. Because they get six miles to the gallon, it's expensive to put gas in one. It's easier to find a parking spot for a semi because they're so big. You have to drive like you're always taking a road test because cops pull you over just on general principles as they figure anyone who can afford a Rolls can afford a lot of traffic tickets too. And God help you if you ever need to put it in the shop. And like a Rolls, the United States healthcare system is very good, but it's too expensive.

"Canada has a Chevrolet healthcare system. It's not the most superlative healthcare system in the world, but it's good. It does what a healthcare system is supposed to. It keeps Canadians healthy, and no one in Canada ever went bankrupt from doctor bills. What good is the greatest healthcare system - which the United States does not have, by the way; a lot of nations get better outcomes for less money - if a relatively small number of people can afford to use it? Canada, and Great Britain, have systems everyone can use, and they work."

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:42 AM

88. yeah she made the senator from NC

look like the jerk he is. it was pleasant to watch.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:53 PM

91. This was priceless

How did she end up appearing in front of these idiots?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:47 PM

92. Coming up on Rachel Maddow's substitute!!!

Last edited Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:17 AM - Edit history (1)

I figured if any show would mention it, it would be hers!
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/gop-senator-deflated-by-facts-from-doctor-195608131641


rocktivity

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:55 PM

93. You Won't See This Story in The American Press

Corporate whores.

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Response to Dirty Socialist (Reply #93)

Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:18 AM

94. One American show did cover it

Last edited Mon Mar 17, 2014, 10:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Guess who?


rocktivity

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