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Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:15 PM

Snowden: My Leak Has Benefited 'Every Society In The World'

Snowden: My Leak Has Benefited 'Every Society In The World'

At the conclusion of his appearance Monday at SXSW Interactive, former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden said he would do it all over again.

Asked if leaking the top secret NSA documents to the public was worth the personal price he has paid, Snowden said that he didn't leak the documents "so I could sort of singlehandedly change the government, tell them what they should do. … What I wanted to do was inform the public."

"The result has been that the public has benefited, the government has benefited, and every society in the world has benefited," Snowden said. "Would I do this again? The answer is absolutely yes."

Snowden was speaking via satellite video with Christopher Soghoian, the American Civil Liberties Union’s principal technologist. The conversation was moderated by Ben Wizner, the director of the ACLU's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project and Snowden’s legal advisor.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/snowden-sxsw-benefit-of-leak

Snowden's leak swayed the outcome of the North Korean election: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024638329

Voters broke into song: "I don't how to love him"




61 replies, 6027 views

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Arrow 61 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden: My Leak Has Benefited 'Every Society In The World' (Original post)
ProSense Mar 2014 OP
frazzled Mar 2014 #1
ProSense Mar 2014 #5
ProSense Mar 2014 #2
Drale Mar 2014 #3
brush Mar 2014 #15
Cha Mar 2014 #35
sheshe2 Mar 2014 #42
Cha Mar 2014 #47
uponit7771 Mar 2014 #58
TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #4
11 Bravo Mar 2014 #6
Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #7
kelliekat44 Mar 2014 #8
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #9
Cha Mar 2014 #36
KamaAina Mar 2014 #10
treestar Mar 2014 #11
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #14
randome Mar 2014 #23
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #12
ProSense Mar 2014 #13
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #17
ProSense Mar 2014 #18
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #21
ProSense Mar 2014 #22
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #26
ProSense Mar 2014 #27
randome Mar 2014 #20
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #25
ProSense Mar 2014 #29
Cha Mar 2014 #39
ProSense Mar 2014 #16
Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #19
ProSense Mar 2014 #31
Cha Mar 2014 #55
Whisp Mar 2014 #24
Cha Mar 2014 #56
ecstatic Mar 2014 #28
ProSense Mar 2014 #32
BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #30
ProSense Mar 2014 #33
Cha Mar 2014 #34
ProSense Mar 2014 #37
Cha Mar 2014 #40
struggle4progress Mar 2014 #38
Cha Mar 2014 #41
ProSense Mar 2014 #43
Cha Mar 2014 #48
Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #44
ProSense Mar 2014 #50
sheshe2 Mar 2014 #45
stevenleser Mar 2014 #46
Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #49
stevenleser Mar 2014 #51
Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #53
Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #54
brush Mar 2014 #57
uponit7771 Mar 2014 #59
Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #60
brush Mar 2014 #61
ProSense Mar 2014 #52

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:24 PM

1. It's working great in Syria

Not to mention Egypt. Ukraine still on the fence.

No really, I think the crux of it is all in this statement: " ... so I could sort of singlehandedly change the government." This is delusional. Does he really think he has done this? Or that any single individual ever could?

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:30 PM

5. LOL!

"This is delusional."

Pretty much!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:28 PM

2. Snowden Says The Government Still Has No Idea What He Gave To Reporters

Snowden Says The Government Still Has No Idea What He Gave To Reporters

Edward Snowden snuck a little jab at the government into his appearance at SXSW Interactive on Monday.

Asked if it was just a matter of time before the government could decrypt even the best encryption, the former National Security Agency contractor held up his own case as evidence that encryption works to protect data from surveillance.

"The United States government has assembled a massive investigative team" to look into him and his leak of top secret NSA documents, Snowden said. "And they still have no idea what documents were provided to the journalists, what they have, what they don't have. Because encryption works."

Snowden also suggested that encryption has kept the documents he leaked out of the hands of foreign governments, like Russia and China.

<...>

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/snowden-sxsw-documents-encryption

Snowden: The U.S. Government has no idea what I gave to reporters in Russia and China, but encryption has kept the documents he leaked out of the hands of foreign governments, like Russia and China, whose media are state-owned.

Genius!


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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:28 PM

3. He's a border line Tea Bagger

he thinks that everything he does is going to bring down the government and that he's god's gift to the world. He's a POS and I really don't care what he leaked especially because we already knew what was going on, we just didn't want to admit it to ourselves.

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Response to Drale (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:15 PM

15. And he himself has no idea what he leaked.

Last edited Tue Mar 11, 2014, 09:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Who does he think he's kidding? He didn't read the terabytes of info either, and on top of that, he no longer has control of it:

(“Snowden … was manic in his thievery, which was exponentially larger than Hanssen’s,” NSA Inspector General George Ellard said at the Georgetown conference. “Robert Hanssen's — the FBI agent who spied for Russia — theft was in a sense finite, whereas Snowden is open-ended as his agents decide daily which documents to disclose. Snowden had no background in intelligence and is likely unaware of the significance of the documents he stole.”)

Seems Greenwald has control, and leaks out dribs of it when he wants to get traffic and attention to his new media venture.

It worked out great for him, not so much for the person who leaked the info that "benefited every society in the world".

(God, that was even hard to type. Don't know if I'm worthy enough to type such an important person's comment).

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Response to Drale (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:26 PM

35. snowden is god's gift to greenwald.

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Response to Cha (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:45 PM

42. " I don't know how to love him"

~ Jesus Christ Superstar

Hail snowden

Cha!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:03 PM

47. ..

Snowden's a savior in his own mind.

snip//

"He handed over documents about American cyber warfare against China — to China. Specifically, Snowden gave the documents to a Hong Kong publication. Perhaps he was emboldened by all of the attention, hero worship and deification he received here. Who knows. Whatever drove him to do it, it was phenomenally irresponsible on a couple of fronts. Not only could he have exacerbated an already dubious international relationship, considering how there appears to be an escalating hacking war between the United States and China, but he also managed to turn numerous Americans against him — Americans who believe he crossed the line from whistleblower to traitor.



TDB

she~

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Response to Drale (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 02:09 PM

58. +1

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:29 PM

4. Keep on tap-dancing, little buddy. By the way, has anyone seen

Weird Al Yanukovich, former President of Ukraine? He went to Russia and had a very conveniently-timed "heart attack". Hope he's OK...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:37 PM

6. He's now the front runner for the O'Reilly Prize, awarded annualy to the most self-important ...

schmuck on the planet.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:40 PM

7. Well, he's certainly provided for a lot of amusement at the way the regime playing CYA about the NSA

 

and what Snowden has revealed about it.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:41 PM

8. Show me the money.....nt

 

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:43 PM

9. You know what makes Snowden a better person than everone else?

His humility...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #9)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:28 PM

36. Don't forget.. "The US wants to assassinate me."

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:46 PM

10. With the possible exception of Skull & Bones.

 

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:48 PM

11. He can't open his mouth without exaggerating

and his narcissism is out of control.

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:11 PM

14. If you think his complex is bad now, just wait until

Jake Gyllenhaal signs on to play him in the movie (yes, you know it's coming )

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:50 PM

23. Or, worse, Benedict Cumberbatch!

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:49 PM

12. I'm guessing this is directly relevant to the topic of the NSA and its over-reach

 

I'm guessing this is directly relevant to the topic of the NSA and its over-reach, but I'm not clever enough to maintain the connection.

Unless of course, it's simply an OP mocking the individual; but again, not being a very clever guy, I simply don't see the relevant reasons.





Are we suppose to make the conversation turn to Snowden when we're so often told he doesn't matter...?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:04 PM

13. What, you don't like Snowden's quote?



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Response to ProSense (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:40 PM

17. I didn't read Snowden's quote...

 

I didn't read Snowden's quote...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:43 PM

18. It was hilarious.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:47 PM

21. However, it was not about policy I would imagine...

 

"It was hilarious..."
However, it was not about policy I would imagine...



Yet as you seem to have a dramatic fixation on the little guy, I'll leave you to him.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:49 PM

22. Who cares? I'm laughing at Snowden.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #22)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:52 PM

26. I'm sure you and he allow it all the credibility it warrants...

 

I'm sure you and he allow it all the credibility it warrants...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #26)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:54 PM

27. LOL!

Whut?




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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:45 PM

20. Plenty of threads about phone metadata. This one is about Snowden.

 

Anyone is fair game for mockery. That's what Americans do best!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:51 PM

25. I keep forgetting the person is more important than than the policy to far too many of the dogmatic

 

I keep forgetting the person is more important than than the policy to far too many of the dogmatic, and never the twain shall meet in his He's a Hero Club and its mirror, The Petulance of the Person club.


I imagine we do much better than mockery... but rationalizing third-grade petulance as being an adult activity-- well, you're going for the gold there little fella!

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:06 PM

29. If that isn't true, why do people get so upset when anyone criticizes Snowden?

I mean, see all your comments in this thread.




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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:31 PM

39. Snowden Made it about Snowden.. Always popping Everywhere telling Everyone What

an Amazing fucking genius he is. Yeah, we get it.. he's fucking god.. in his own head.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:40 PM

16. Oooh,

Snowden's fans are upset.



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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:44 PM

19. Snowden's leaks solved the crisis in Syria....

 

Who needs the US, the EU or the UN when you've got Snowden?

It's all peaches 'n cream in Syria now.

You rock, Snowden.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:13 PM

31. Snowden, hero! n/t

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:05 AM

55. Snowden's LEAKS have been Crucial to

Russia.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:51 PM

24. Maybe Snowden should invest in a containment vessel,

 

otherwise known as underwear, for those leaky days.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #24)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:09 AM

56. I thought you were going to refer to

a containment vessel for all the bullshit he spouts.. ad nauseam! lol

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:57 PM

28. why can't he stfu so the focus can be the NSA?

He's almost George Zimmerman-like in his constant comments, etc

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:17 PM

32. He's still trying for clemency and needs to tell everyone how important he is.

This is why his story recently changed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024624823#post143

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:11 PM

30. Kids these days

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:24 PM

33. Saving the world, one ego at a time.

LOL!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:24 PM

34. Snowden Leaks From Russia..


BuzzFeed Benny ✔ @bennyjohnson
Follow
Snowden condemning unwanted and illegal government interference in peoples lives from Russia
6:42 AM - 10 Mar 2014 104 Retweets 41 favorites •Reply
•Retweet
•Favorite

TOD

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Response to Cha (Reply #34)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:29 PM

37. LOL!

Dude's a tool!



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Response to ProSense (Reply #37)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:34 PM

40. Dude's Putin's Tool Now.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:31 PM

38. 18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 37 › § 798

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information ...
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government ...
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both


It sounds to me as if he's admitting disclosures that benefit foreign governments

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #38)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:37 PM

41. Guess Snowden feels all cozy and safe in Russia..


BuzzFeed Benny ✔ @bennyjohnson
Follow
Snowden condemning unwanted and illegal government interference in peoples lives from Russia
6:42 AM - 10 Mar 2014 104 Retweets 41 favorites •Reply
•Retweet
•Favorite

TOD

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Response to Cha (Reply #41)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:48 PM

43. He's probably desperate to get the hell out of there. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #43)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:04 PM

48. Yeah, but, where to go next.. hmmmm? nt

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:51 PM

44. It has in terms of more secure communications.

Which, of course, is the primary topic that Snowden addressed.

http://blog.inside.com/blog/2014/3/10/edward-snowden-sxsw-full-transcription-and-video

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:23 PM

50. Really, he apparently

The NSA the sort of global mass surveillance that is occurring in all of these countries. Not just the US it is important to remember that this is a global issue. They are setting fire to the future of the internet. The people who are in this room now you guys are all the firefighters and we need you to help us fix this.

...contradicts himself.

The OP quote is delusional.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:56 PM

45. oh my, what an inflated ego that man has.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:03 PM

46. Obsessive desire to be seen as a hero, i.e.: Narcissism and/or Megalomania nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #46)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:10 PM

49. And your comment merely reveals that you didn't

watch the video or read the transcript. If you had, you would know what his comment was in reference to... (Psst. It had to do with increased application of encryption and increased efforts by developers to create user-friendly encryption.)

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #49)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:24 PM

51. It doesn't suggest any such thing. I already believed this from prior statements of his. This just

 

reinforced it. I bet if examined a psychiatrist would find he suffers from narcissistic personality disorder.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #51)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 01:57 AM

53. Glenn Greenwald, honored with an Izzy Award, winner of the Polk Award,

speaker in front of Amnesty International. Honored as one of the first inductions into the I.F. Stone Hall of Fame.


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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 03:57 AM

54. LOL....nt

 

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 01:21 PM

57. Greenwald is doing great — new media venture, awards and all . . .,

Snowden, not so much.

Wonder if Eddie, now holed up in Russia and having to periodically come out and extoll Putin's human rights virtues, is thinking he might have been used just a touch?

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Response to brush (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 02:11 PM

59. +1, this is the biggest tell tale of GG assholeness level... Snowden in the lurch GG raking it in

...Snowden is still an idiot

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Response to brush (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 02:43 PM

60. Winner of the Sam Adams award, Germany's Whistleblower Prize, elected to serve as Rector at the

University of Glascow and appointed to the board of directors of Ellsberg's and Greenwald's Freedom of the Press Foundation.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #60)

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:14 PM

61. So why does he want to come back to the US?

I'm not a Snowdenista but I do think he did a good thing in exposing the NSA's domestic spying. Where I think he and Greenwald went wrong is in revealing intricacies of our international covert operations.

On everyone of these Snowden threads the Eddie fan's don't seem to want to accept that this is a two-part issue. On the domestic side, imo, he is a legitimate whistle blower.

As far as the international revelations, I say it is not the business of a somewhat naive 29-year-old to make the decision to give away details of his own country's international covert operations. It's that simple. It was not his decision to make, especially when just a few years earlier when Bush was in office he was vehemently against this sort of thing.

When Obama came in, the right-leaning Snowden had a dramatic change of heart that has made him a hero to some progressives. If you want to know more just read the transcripts below from an online correspondence Snowden (TheTrueHOOHA) had with a User19 in 2009:


"This is the background of Snowden and his position on this very issue...

Another topic made him even angrier. The Snowden of 2009 inveighed against government officials who leaked classified information to newspapers – the worst crime conceivable, in Snowden’s apoplectic view. In January of that year the New York Times published a report on a secret Israeli plan to attack Iran. It said that President Bush had ‘deflected’ a request from Israel for specialised bunker-busting bombs to carry out the risky mission. Instead Bush had told the Israelis he had authorised ‘new covert action’ to sabotage Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons programme.

The Times said its story was based on 15 months’ worth of interviews with current and former US officials, European and Israeli officials, other experts and international nuclear inspectors.

TheTrueHOOHA’s response, published by Ars Technica, is worth quoting in full:


<TheTrueHOOHA> HOLYSHIT http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/ washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp
<TheTrueHOOHA> WTF NYTIMES
<TheTrueHOOHA> Are they TRYING to start a war?
<TheTrueHOOHA> Jesus christ
<TheTrueHOOHA> they’re like wikileaks
<User19> they’re just reporting, dude.
<TheTrueHOOHA> They’re reporting classified shit
<User19> Shrugs
<TheTrueHOOHA> about an unpopular country surrounded by enemies already engaged in a war
<TheTrueHOOHA> and about our interactions with said country regarding planning sovereignty violations of another country
<TheTrueHOOHA> you don’t put that shit in the NEWSPAPER
<User19> Meh
<TheTrueHOOHA> moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?
<TheTrueHOOHA> those people should be shot in the balls.
<TheTrueHOOHA> ‘But the tense exchanges also prompted the White House to step up intelligence-sharing with Israel and brief Israeli officials on new American efforts to subtly sabotage Iran’s nuclear infrastructure, a major covert program that Mr. Bush is about to hand off to President-elect Barack Obama.’
<TheTrueHOOHA> HELLO? HOW COVERT IS IT NOW? THANK YOU
<User19> Meh
<TheTrueHOOHA> I wonder how many hundreds of millions of dollars they just completely blew.
<User19> You’re over-reacting. It’s fine.
<TheTrueHOOHA> It’s not an overreaction. They have a HISTORY of this shit
<User19> with flowers and cake.
<TheTrueHOOHA> these are the same people who blew the whole ‘we could listen to osama’s cell phone’ thing the same people who screwed us on wiretapping over and over and over again. Thank God they’re going out of business.
<User19> the NYT?
<TheTrueHOOHA> Hopefully they’ll finally go bankrupt this year. yeah.

A few minutes later the chat continues:


<User19> It’s nice they report on stuff.
<TheTrueHOOHA> I enjoy it when it’s ethical reporting.
<TheTrueHOOHA> political corruption, sure
<TheTrueHOOHA> scandal, yes
<User19> is it unethical to report on the government’s intrigue?
<TheTrueHOOHA> VIOLATING NATIONAL SECURITY? no
<User19> meh.
<User19> national security.
<TheTrueHOOHA> Um,YEEEEEEEEEEEES.
<TheTrueHOOHA> that shit is classified for a reason
<TheTrueHOOHA> it’s not because ‘oh we hope our citizens don’t find out’
<TheTrueHOOHA> it’s because ‘this shit won’t work if iran knows what we’re doing.’
<User19> Shrugs
<TheTrueHOOHA> ‘None would speak on the record because of the great secrecy surrounding the intelligence developed on Iran.’
<TheTrueHOOHA> direct. quote.
<TheTrueHOOHA> THEN WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO REPORTERS?!
<TheTrueHOOHA> ‘Those covert operations, and the question of whether Israel will settle for something less than a conventional attack on Iran, pose immediate and wrenching decisions for Mr. Obama.’
<TheTrueHOOHA> THEY’RE NOT COVERT ANYMORE
<TheTrueHOOHA> Oh you’ve got to be fucking kidding me. Now the NYTimes is going to determine our foreign policy?
<TheTrueHOOHA> And Obama?
<TheTrueHOOHA> Obama just appointed a fucking POLITICIAN to run the CIA!
<User11> yes unlike every other director of CIA ever
<User11> oh wait, no
<TheTrueHOOHA> I am so angry right now. This is completely unbelievable.

The ‘fucking politician’ was Leon Panetta, appointed by Obama in 2009 despite his evident lack of intelligence background. The appointment was supposed to draw a line under the intelligence scandals of the Bush years – the renditions, the secret CIA prisons and the illegal wiretapping.


This should be required reading for you Snowden supporters.

Snowden evidently knew of WikiLeaks, a niche transparency website whose story would later intersect with his own. But he didn’t like it. At this point, Snowden’s antipathy towards the New York Times was based on his opinion that ‘they are worse than Wikileaks’. Later, however, he would go on to accuse the paper of not publishing quickly enough and of sitting on unambiguous evidence of White House illegality. These are somewhat contradictory views.

Certainly Snowden’s anti-leaking invective seems stunningly at odds with his own later behaviour. But there is a difference between what the Times arguably did – reveal details of sensitive covert operations – and what Snowden would do in 2013. Snowden nowadays explains: ‘Most of the secrets the CIA has are about people, not machines and systems, so I didn’t feel comfortable with disclosures that I thought could endanger anyone.’"


In 2009 he thought covert operations leakers "should be shot in the balls" (his words). Quite a change in philosophies he had from 2009 to 2013 don't you think?

I know I myself haven't went from being a progressive to a teabagger since 2009, yet Snowden has somehow managed just the reverse of this in his thinking from that of authoritarian right winger to a progressive beacon of human rights.

IMO that just doesn't happen. Obama happened.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 06:57 PM

52. Kick! n/t

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