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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUkraines grassy knoll (Graphic) evidence police weren't the only snipers.
Maidan. The Inconvenient Truth : shooting in the back http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5dc_1393953567 (Graphic video warning)
This video proves that shots were fired on the advancing protest party from the rear and clearly points out bullet trajectories (from the Hotel Ukraine) as well as impact areas.
The video coincides with the release of a hacked EU minister phone call discussing the subject. Link to You Tube video of ministerial phone call and the Guardian UK story related to the subject.
Skip to 2 minute mark for start of conversation. (Also a graphic warning as video shows pictures of individuals suffering)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet
The Ministers give clear impressions of what they think of the protest leaders saying " All these guys have a dirty past", "They can't be trusted", "The trust level is absolutely low", "They send uninvited visitors in the night to beat parliament members" "They beat a parliament member in the streets". "They can't send a reform package yet due to the level of trust it will end badly". "They have no partner to partner with". They also discuss the doctor who treated the shooting victims in the video above saying she believes the same individuals were shooting police and protesters on both sides. Skip to 8:20 mark in the You Tube video to go straight to this quote. They also say the new coalition doesn't want to investigate who was doing the shooting.
The theory put forth is these individuals being shot were patsies murdered by their own side in order to blame Ukrainian authorities and gather the sentiment of the rest of the world to the protesters side. There is some video out there that shows police sniping in certain areas so of course they are not blameless either. However, the video above lends credence to the possibility those individuals were murdered in cold blood by their own side.
One thing of note is that the US media has chosen not to cover any of this subject. Neither the leaked phone calls or the possibility of the protest leaders murdering their own people for international support. DU'ers can watch the videos and decide if they think it's all BS. The concerns the EU ministers have should be taken into account however, when considering the fact the US media has chosen not to cover that aspect of the crisis. The US and EU are planning to give billions of dollars of US taxpayer money to these individuals. American have a right to know this info and our media should be covering it.
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romans74
(1 post)go west young man
(4,856 posts)They would definitely be needed for the US audience.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)In the passage your name references and not ALL law?
go west young man
(4,856 posts)Even going so far as to identify the room...5th column...2nd from the top.
they verify they saw the sniper.Forward to 2:40 mark in the video for footage.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Response to go west young man (Original post)
Post removed
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Was coming from police lines. Then he said he and protesters saw and heard gunfire from shooter up in hotel window.
Thought the person was wearing green helmet protesters were wearing.
Did not say where the person was firing, who this person was, or any other facts.
I can come up with at least 5 plausible theories to describe it. But of course it's more fun to use this inconclusive item to advance your particular narrative without any proof.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)by horrifically shooting them and sending them to their deaths in order to blame the regime and gain world support for their movement? How does it make you feel to possibly be fine with that? Why not consider the other side of the story and consider it a possibility rather than constantly tossing out blatant remarks to discredit the theory.
I can consider it was possibly police snipers. I've seen the footage of police with sniper rifles. However, the people in the video were not being killed within the trajectory of the police sniper rifles. They were being filmed at the same trajectory as the sniper that the BBC saw. The cameraman was in the same room if you watch the footage one can see this. You can also see bullets hitting the back of the trees and victims looking around and back towards the Hotel Ukraine.
As far as conspiracies go it is much more likely they were used and shot by their own (right wing) contingent in order to garner international support for their cause.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)But please proceed.
Logical
(22,457 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)whoever alerted on you it wasn't me. I don't alert on people or use ignore here at DU. I'm actually a big advocate against censorship of any kind...including things that might be considered dungeon material. I prefer to debate you on the merits of your arguments as it helps to back mine up or discredit yours.
As far as the alerters or jury members go...if possible can you paste up the jury results so more light can be shed on the DU jury system. Personally I feel that the jury system is just a crap shoot (popularity contest) and should be discontinued so we can hash out our differences openly. Posting results helps to expose the 50/50 chance people rest upon and bring more light to DU.
Logical
(22,457 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)They sometimes turn out to be true. The BBC verifies the sniper and location by room. What say you to that conspiracy theory?
Catherina
(35,568 posts)
malaise
(268,844 posts)over and over.
I've had enough - I know the meme - I've seen it at work. I've lived it.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)except that each time the pool of gullible people becomes smaller but I don't buy that it's just gullibility.
Please don't answer this if you don't want it on the board but where? Jamaica?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)Excerpt:
Musiy, who spent more than two months organizing medical units on Maidan, said that on Feb. 20 roughly 40 civilians and protesters were brought with fatal bullet wounds to the makeshift hospital set up near the square. But he said medics also treated three police officers whose wounds were identical.
Forensic evidence, in particular the similarity of the bullet wounds, led him and others to conclude that snipers were targeting both sides of the standoff at Maidan — and that the shootings were intended to generate a wave of revulsion so strong that it would topple Yanukovych and also justify a Russian invasion.
Russia has used the uncertainty surrounding the bloodshed to discredit Ukraine's current government. During a news conference Tuesday, Putin addressed the issue in response to a reporter's question, suggesting that the snipers in fact "may have been provocateurs from opposition parties."
go west young man
(4,856 posts)go west young man
(4,856 posts)Der Spiegel has recently put out a piece on the doctor who treated the Maidan wounded and was referenced in the Estonian ministers phone call.
The piece specifically states that snipers shot protesters from the roof of the Hotel Ukraine where she was working on the wounded.
Excerpt:
During the unrest, Bogomolets organized medical care for wounded demonstrators. She stood in the way of police officers who were trying to arrest wounded protesters in hospitals. She also coordinated care on Feb. 20, the most violent day in Kiev, when hundreds of protesters were injured and more than 60 died.
During that time, she stood in the lobby of the Hotel Ukraine, which had been converted into a makeshift hospital. People died in her arms while snipers shot at protesters from the hotel roof.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/maidan-hero-olga-bogomolets-considers-future-in-ukrainian-politics-a-962369.html
Additional excerpt:
In the spring of 2014, Ukraine is an anxious country. Suddenly almost anything is possible, which also means that there is almost nothing to rely on. Sometimes all it takes is a few words to create new fronts and ignite the next conflict. Bogomolets herself was questioning many things until recently, even voicing the suspicion that the regime's snipers may not have been responsible for the deaths on Maidan Square.
Will Ukraine Investigate Killings?
Her suspicions became public when, in early March, a recording of an intercepted telephone conversation between Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton was posted on the Internet -- by the Russians. In the conversation, Paet said that Bogomolets questioned whether former President Yanukovich was responsible for the massacre. "There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovich, it was somebody from the new coalition," Paet said in remarks later confirmed by the Estonian Foreign Ministry. "Olga told that, well, all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides."
