Heterosexual privilege.

[sibelian]

What is it?

Is there any? Can anyone point to any examples of it? Do we accept that it exists? Or is the concept of privilege not amenable to the political structures around homosexuality?

As a gay man, I'd very much like to know what you all think.

[Throd]

1. It exists

I am a heterosexual male.

[HappyMe]

2. I believe it exists.

I have never had to fight for the right to marry. I have never been beaten up or stared at when holding hands with my boyfriend. I haven't ever had anything bad happen to me based simply on my sexuality.

[ZombieHorde]

3. I'm straight.

When I got married, it was called marriage, not gay marriage.

I have no fear talking about my straightness at work, but some of my coworkers will only talk about their gayness to a few of us out of fear of prejudice.

[In_The_Wind]

4. It's still as strong as ever.

[BainsBane]

5. Of course

The fact that straight couples can walk in public holding hands without fear of reprisal. That heterosexuals can marry in any state in the union and have those marriages recognized everywhere. Health insurance benefits. It goes on and on.

[1000words]

6. Seriously considering trashing the word "privilege," all together.

DU is a odd place.

[sibelian]

11. I am simply trying to see what people think.

Thank you for responding.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

24. Agreed

I think advantage is a better word. There are very few per se privileged people in this world.

[lunatica]

32. I agree with you. I will use advantage from now on.

Thanks!

[laundry_queen]

7. I believe it exists.

For instance, I didn't have to worry about showing my affections towards a boy when I was in high school the same way my gay daughter has to worry about possible consequences if she shows an interest in another girl. She hasn't experienced any bullying or anything because of it (she has dated girls in her school) because they have strict anti-bullying policies and a GLA group (which she is a part of) but the very fact that I never had to think about anything remotely like that indicated I was in a privileged position compared to her.

[RKP5637]

8. Well, in Kansas they had a bill that almost passed that they could deny medical services to one if

they thought one were LGBT and they didn't like it (so their religion professed), and then they recently wanted to deny stores/services to LGBT and they didn't like it (so their religion professed). Yes, there is heterosexual privilege all over the place.

[Raine1967]

9. I can't get fired for being a hetrosexual.

I can walk in any public space without fear of people judging me for who I love.
I can get better tax breaks from my commonwealth because I am a Heterosexual.


My marriage is recognized in every state.

I might be misunderstanding your question, if so, I apologize.

[sibelian]

18. No I don't think you've misunderstood my question.

Thank you for responding.

[dsc]

36. technically you can be fired for being heterosexual

though, of course, it is exceptionally unlikely due to numbers.

[sibelian]

50. I'm not sure what you mean, dsc.

What are you referring to?

[dsc]

53. The law doesn't protect you from being fired for your sexual orientation

one of which is being heterosexual. Technically a gay business owner could fire you for being straight though given the relative numbers of gay business owners vs straight and then finding one who would engage in such discrimination the likelihood that one would actually be fired for that is pretty slim one would think.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

10. Oh sure...

When I came out as straight to my parents, I wasn't worried that they wouldn't love me any more.

[LostOne4Ever]

12. Marriage

And the over 1000 rights and privileges that come with it.
Being able to have a pda without being gawked at or harassed
Having representation in various media without causing a scandal
Not having your relationship instantly sexualized while heterosexual courtship are considered innocent.

These are just a few things that jump to my mind.

[sibelian]

19. "Not having your relationship instantly sexualized"

Interesting example, thank you.

[cui bono]

22. Yes, of course. All the benefits of marriage.

I can't imagine being told I couldn't see my SO in the hospital because we're not married. That's horrible!
And the tax benefits.

Everything you mentioned, great examples.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. Absolutely.

As much bias as a dad faces when volunteering at school is multiplied 20x when the teachers, administrators and other parents learn that he's gay.

[rrneck]

14. Yes. It exists.

And laws that discriminate against LGBT's are proof.

[el_bryanto]

15. Of course it exists - so does white privilege, male privilege

At least in the modern United States.

Bryant

[1awake]

16. lol.. 100% it exists. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. ofcourse it does. heterosexuality is baked into our everyday norms/culture

here are various examples

1. straight kids dont have to come out. you are assumed to be straight.

2. no one (kids or adults) gets bullied/harassed merely because they are straight (the opposite is not true for gays)

3. straight couples do not get harassed in public

4. straight couples are not barred from all rights and privileges

5. straight people who are traveling do not worry for their lives due to their sexual orientation (they may worry for other reasons, but not cos they are straight)

i could go on, but one should get the point by now

[Manifestor_of_Light]

71. Re #2: I was hassled AS IF I were gay, although I wasn't.

Big six foot tall girls in gym class threatening to beat me up.

It was because "queer" was the worst insult they could call me just for existing. I refused to get in fights because I was little and sometimes refused to participate in gym class, because I didn't want to jam a finger playing softball.

[cui bono]

20. I think it exists and I'm hetero.

Fortunately I don't think it's very prevalent in my neighborhood or my industry. But in general, yes, absolutely. There are still laws on the books that discriminate against homosexuals. There's gay bashing. There's a fucking church that pickets funerals of homosexuals.

So yes. It exists. As a hetero person I don't fear any of that.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. I think there is widespread, deeply ingrained homophobia and anti-gay bigotry in our country.

The good news is, I think it has improved markedly in my lifetime. There is still a ways to go, and some parts of the country are definitely worse than others, but I do think there has been some real positive change in recent decades.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. I'd laregly agree with this.

There have been a number of changes, including in every day life for us. But, you are correct in that there is still much to do here and abroad.

[sibelian]

64. I'm actually very fortunate, I think.

Here in the UK, where I live, it's basically a non-issue. It's widely accepted.

I live in Edinburgh, in Scotland. It's an incredibly liberal and tolerant city.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. I'd say the same thing about the urban centers of the West Coast here

Particularly the northern ones.

[geek tragedy]

23. Absolutely, I question the sanity of anyone

who denies it.

[Chan790]

25. I believe it exists.

It's the privilege of having people view your relationship as "normal" or "default". Nobody says "I got straight married", we need no laws against discriminating against straight people, etc.

Less well understood but just as real is cisgender privilege.

[Iggo]

26. Of course it exists.

[gollygee]

27. Absolutely

There are huge ways being heterosexual gives privileges even just legally, and will in every single state including those with same-sex marriage until federal marriage recognition.

And then, as with all discrimination, it's the flip side. My husband can put a photo of him and me up at his desk without any negativity following. In fact, it makes him look like a "family man" and if you're heterosexual that's a good thing. He can talk about what he did over the weekend, he can work anyplace and get health benefits for me.

Etc. There's just so much. This is a heteronormative society and because of that there is tons of heterosexual privilege. We could give examples for a long, long time.

[ismnotwasm]

28. Of course it exists.

I can get married in any state. There are not laws imagining what I do in bed to make illegal. I am not beaten or murdered for being gay. A closet is a place I put my clothes.

I could go on for a while but ll stop there.

[cui bono]

29. Another thing... heteros don't constantly get bombarded with the feeling that they are not the norm

Like growing up and hearing about relationships only in terms of hetero ones. "When you start to like boys/girls" being said to the opposite gender.

I have a niece and nephews all around 9-10 years old. I always make sure I don't say anything like that that makes it seem that if they feel they like the same gender that it's weird or different. They have great parents too, so they won't get that from them. So hopefully they will feel like it's no big deal if they are homosexual.

If it were always that open, that kids felt that it's no big deal there would be no big issue about coming out. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be worried about not being accepted just because of being homosexual. As if it makes any difference. And to have to feel that your own parents might not accept you because of it? That's really a sad thing to ponder.

[gollygee]

33. I'm careful about that with my kids too

to always say "Someday you'll start to be attracted to other people" instead of specifying boys (I have girls.) And "When you grow up and fall in love" rather than specifying with a man. But I think it also warrants a conversation at some point specifically stating that girls sometimes are attracted to boys, and sometimes are attracted to girls, and it's OK either way.

[JI7]

30. yes, gays are often accused of pushing an agenda if they want to do the same things hetero couples

do everyday without any thought.

and then this doesn't even include the equal rights legal protections which still have to be fought for in many places.

[Vinnie From Indy]

31. There is hardly anything that isn't privileged in one manner or another.

I guess you could say that the first privilege is that of being alive. Humans are privileged as a species because a giant bit of space rock slammed into the Yucatan 96 million tears ago and allowed our species to evolve in the space vacated by the dinosaurs.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. It can be called "heterosexism."

The presumption that heterosexuality is the norm and everything else is a deviation.

Many people have already listed some fine examples, the most prominent being marriage. But, I also see it as not being to watch TV or movies and see us represented in a non-stereotypical way or seeing many of us at all.

When one is heterosexual, you can easily flip on any TV show, watch any movie, listen to any song and see/hear your type of relationship being described.

When one is heterosexual, people don't conclude some sexual trauma in the past may be responsible; or that you have an over-bearing mother or an absent father.

When one is heterosexual, people rarely wonder what you do in bed. When you are heterosexual, strangers rarely ask, "Whose the top/bottom (who's the man/woman)?" or "How do you have sex (mainly to lesbians)?" or "Do you cheat on your spouse/partner (usually asked of bisexuals)?"

When one is heterosexual, people do not assume you are a pedophile, despite heterosexuals statically and probability-wise being more inclined.

When one is heterosexual, people rarely refer to your spouse/partner as "your (special) friend."

When one is heterosexual, it is usually easy to do mundane things, like find an anniversary card without having to make one, go online, or travel to a larger city.

When one is heterosexual, filing taxes is much easier when asked about your martial status.

When one is heterosexual, (in most cases) people celebrate your coming together with another and mourn with you when you lose your loved one.

When one is heterosexual, you do not feel inhibited to share your love for another openly and honestly.

Is that what you were looking for in regards to your OP?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. excellent examples

[cui bono]

38. When one is heterosexual, people are rarely concerned you might raise heterosexual children.

To add to your excellent list.

And actually, that's if you are even allowed to adopt as a homosexual.

[sibelian]

42. These are excellent examples.

Thank you.

[customerserviceguy]

39. I'd like to think

that educating people should avoid guilt as a motivating factor. Churches work that way, I'd prefer that enlightened society eschews the practice.

[johnnypneumatic]

40. more examples

http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~hyrax/personal/files/student_res/straightprivilege.htm

On a daily basis as a straight person…

I can be pretty sure that my roomate, hallmates and classmates will be comfortable with my sexual orientation.
If I pick up a magazine, watch TV, or play music, I can be certain my sexual orientation will be represented.
When I talk about my heterosexuality (such as in a joke or talking about my relationships), I will not be accused of pushing my sexual orientation onto others.
I do not have to fear that if my family or friends find out about my sexual orientation there will be economic, emotional, physical or psychological consequences.
I did not grow up with games that attack my sexual orientation (IE fag tag or smear the queer).
I am not accused of being abused, warped or psychologically confused because of my sexual orientation.
I can go home from most meetings, classes, and conversations without feeling excluded, fearful, attacked, isolated, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, stereotyped or feared because of my sexual orientation.
I am never asked to speak for everyone who is heterosexual.
I can be sure that my classes will require curricular materials that testify to the existence of people with my sexual orientation.
People don't ask why I made my choice of sexual orientation.
People don't ask why I made my choice to be public about my sexual orientation.
I do not have to fear revealing my sexual orientation to friends or family. It's assumed.
My sexual orientation was never associated with a closet.
People of my gender do not try to convince me to change my sexual orientation.

etc etc...

[AverageJoe90]

41. TBH, it can be argued that it's not so much "privilege" on the part of heteros.....

As it is a series of DISadvantages that LGBT persons must overcome in relation to the so-called "norm" as it were. In fact, I've personally found that putting it in relatively straightforward language makes it easier for laymen to understand.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. some of it could be described as advantage/disadvantage, but straight marriage is

a 'by the dictionary' privilege:

a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

[QC]

43. Here is an excellent example of heterosexual privilege in action,

one of the finest examples I have ever seen, in fact: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4609055

[sibelian]

44. The attribution of "single issue voter"?

Yes. I've never really known what to say in response to that.

[QC]

45. Some things are just so hateful and clueless

you just don't know where to start.

[sibelian]

49. Sometimes I look at the things some people post here and think:

"That assertion rests on about four separate stupid assumptions and attempts to dismantle the first will embolden this idiots intent to cling to the other three."

[QC]

56. Yes. Just sigh, shake your head, and move on. n/t

[MrScorpio]

47. Of course, it exists

It's everywhere. As a straight man, I see it all the time.

[fizzgig]

48. it absolutely exists

there are many good examples in this thread.

beyond that, there is also the privilege of being cis and gender conforming. i'm a hetero, cis woman but not much of a gender conformist, i shave my head and dress more like a "boy". this doesn't cause me any issues as an adult, but i went through hell for it in high school.

[Skittles]

51. yes it does exist

to a certain segment of the population, I am "normal" and you are not

[Jamastiene]

52. Yes, it exists.

Of course, it exists. I have no doubts about that.

[Not Me]

54. One of the most blatant representations is in film and television

Turn on your tv or go see a movie tonite. The hetero relationship is always present. Whether it is an innocuous "see you after work honey" or a very intimate love scene. It's there 24/7.
When (IF) a similar gay theme is run, it is always hysterically hyped.

[sibelian]

72. ....

:/


I don't know about that.

I really don't know how unfair that is. It's not as if gay people are vastly numerous.

My main objection would be if we were portrayed as inherently twisty or unwholesome, like they used to, they don't really do that any more.

I've seen many "matter of fact" portrayals of gay couples in recent years... It's not quite the norm yet...

[Boom Sound 416]

55. Their seems to be a kind of standard

Take the identical context of two people. One straight, one not and observe.

Is that correct?

So,
two bank managers
Two school teachers
Two political lawyers
Two actors
Tow soldiers
Etc

[sibelian]

57. Well, actually, this is one of the problems, for me.

I'm not sure that prejudice is very easy to understand as a comparative process.

I started this thread genuinely to see what other people actually think, partially about homosexuality and partially about the concept of privilege as the concept seems very muddy to me. It's clear that substantial chunks of how privilege works is as a comparative tool, possibly at the expense of being an analytical one.

Presumably we're to consider privilege as having explanatory power with regards to prejudice and I have to say that the concept doesn't actually seem to me to have much to do with me being gay and what that *actually* entails.

I'm not sure I'm fully on board with the idea that social structures that are oppressive to me can be described solely in terms of what other people have got or what they haven't got. I'm not sure that "what normal people have got" and trying to make sure I can get it too is the standard which we should be meeting.

It's not really what I care about, you see. I'm thinking very hard about this thread and what people have said and considering my own opinions, which I suspect are not necessarily what other lefties might think I should have, regarding the social structures that refer to me, obliquely, or by tacit omission, or by commission of fault.

I don't think heterosexuals get much out of the stereotypes that THEY are held to either. THAT'S my feeling.

I don't know how that fits in yet. I am musing.

Sorry, talking out loud... rambling, probably...

[Boom Sound 416]

59. Perhaps you should add this to your OP

I apologize, I did kind of lose you in there, but I'll continue re-reading. Haven't read the thread other than the headlines.

[sibelian]

61. Well, I actually didn't want to stink the thread up with "me-talk" this time

It really is an inquiry. Actually your response is probably the one that opened the cracks, there, so where's the bad? lol

There's no need to apologise, honestly!

[Boom Sound 416]

65. Right on

I'm interested in the chat and the discussion. I'm also interested in the concept as it relates to people.


I do think it has serious flaws.

[winter is coming]

58. It definitely exists, and the attitude that LGBT rights are somehow a trivial or disposable issue is

a clear example of it. I've seen people praise Obama for his LGBT positions, which annoys me. If he'd come out for gay marriage in 2008, I'd take that as a moral stance. His change in position since 2008 merely reflects an awareness of which way the wind is blowing. The progress that the LGBT community has seen is largely due to their own efforts.

on edit: And wanting a public official to support gay rights is somehow demanding the "perfect", when in reality it's demanding the decent. Every time I see the "purist" label thrown at someone who wants gay-friendly candidates, it makes me wonder how many of the Dems who wanted candidates who supported the Civil Rights movement were dismissed and belittled as impractical purists.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

60. When I was a kid

the absolute worst insult you could hurl at someone was "queer".

This was before the word "gay" was common.

So I got called a queer every goddamn day for 7 years, 6th through 12th grade, because it was the worst insult the little bastards could think of.

My mother said, "Tell them to go to hell." So I did that, many times a day. Then they threatened to tell the teacher that I used a bad word.

They never told the teacher about my use of "hell" and they knew words that I did not, because my parents didn't use the common cuss words of today that used to be unprintable.

I'm heterosexual. So I've been hassled relentlessly as if I was homosexual, just because it was the worst insult they could think of.

[sibelian]

63. Yeah. They did that to me, too.

Until one day, after gym class, and one of the main characters in the little story of "sibelian at high school" decided he REALLY wasn't interested in tolerating my existence any more and was about to kick the crap out of me with the assistance of his crew of foul little cowards, used one of the words just before he was about to get going and I finally snapped and said: "IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!"

He backed off instantly and the entire class stared at me, as they had all been calling me "Faggot", "Poof", Gay, " what have you, for years. They shuffled back to their clothes and everyone got changed in silence.

I changed too. I left the room. I fumed and thought:

"....

FUCK.

THIS.

SHIT.



..."

Except not in words, so much.

I skipped class and went home. Weirdly, none of the teachers noticed I was gone, it seems, at least, no-one said anything. I have no idea what anyone said to anyone. There were several classes left that day, I offered no excuse for my absence. No-one mentioned it the next day.

Nobody ever called me gay at school again. Or picked on me. That's my coming out story, I guess.

[LuvNewcastle]

66. That's pretty powerful, sibelian. Thanks for sharing that.

[sibelian]

70. Cheers, dude.

It was a very weird thing to happen. I still don't really know how I feel about it. Most other people's coming out stories are a bit less... I don't know! Gym classy! Confrontational! I actually can't fucking relate to it to this day, it's a such a fucking soap-operaish, movie thing in my head. I was convinced he was going to make a thin paste of me, the jerk. Weird place to come out...

Anyway, if I get to heaven and he does too and it turns out HE was gay all along (pffffff!) I am unlikely to be nice to him.

[REP]

62. I can tell you what I don't have to put up with:

My marriage is recognized everywhere and I could get married anywhere

No one assumes my partner is not my partner

Don't have to worry about inheritance/SS issues (our families are normal humans, so the inheritance thing wouldn't be an issue for US if we were same sex, but that's not the rule)

I have been called homophobic slurs throughout my life because I'm not super gender conforming and/or I've turned some piece of shit down but I do not compare this to what LGBT people experience

Not being used as a shockingly funny plot device in movies, jokes, etc

Tons and tons more I'm not even aware of.

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. It absolutely exists ...

The first and biggest example that comes to mind is, I as a heterosexual male do not have to hide whom I love or explain why. A second, and related, example would be: I, as a heterosexual, will never face denial of, or resistance to, service or a job/promotion because of whom I love. A third, and more subtle, example is: I, as a heterosexual, will never be called upon/expected to serve as the template for the whole of heterosexuality.

[Ms. Toad]

69. Prime example

A female friend of my daughter was given in-school suspension for wearing a T-shirt which said "I love my girlfriend," by a principal who proudly displayed a picture of his wife on his desk. The reasoning he articulated was that she was advertising sexual activity, which was not appropriate in a high school.

When I pointed out the picture of his wife, whoosh, right over his head.