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Sat Mar 1, 2014, 10:21 AM

Biden? Clinton?.. How about NEITHER ?

"Up with Steve Kornacki" is going on and on about how poor old Joe has such low numbers against Hillary.

In this time we live in, gender (female) trumps sitting-veep.

But even if Hillary was content to not run and to say it in no uncertain terms, I would still not want Joe to run.

I am mostly upset at how everyone is totally negating and lame-ducking the president we just re-elected not that long ago.

I am nearly 65, so I DO know the value of experience, but I also know how important it should be to have a younger person in charge...someone who grew up "digital", and who has a fuller understanding of our newer ways of working/banking/investing/communicating, etc.

No one is "owed" the presidency, and even though it might be "loverly" to see a female president, I would prefer a tech-savvy younger person.

Every time I start to focus on all the upsetting things our government does/does not do, I find myself wishing we had a better system....one where all offices are ONE-TERM... No need to campaign for re-election .. President 6 years & out..senate 6 years and out, house 4 years and out. Without the need to STAY elected at any cost, perhaps legislators would feel free to actually legislate.

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Reply Biden? Clinton?.. How about NEITHER ? (Original post)
SoCalDem Mar 2014 OP
Autumn Mar 2014 #1
KoKo Mar 2014 #6
Autumn Mar 2014 #8
loyalsister Mar 2014 #42
Auntie Bush Mar 2014 #2
TalkingDog Mar 2014 #5
stevenleser Mar 2014 #36
Whisp Mar 2014 #38
stevenleser Mar 2014 #51
lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #3
magical thyme Mar 2014 #4
reddread Mar 2014 #7
Moostache Mar 2014 #9
RufusTFirefly Mar 2014 #10
reddread Mar 2014 #11
RufusTFirefly Mar 2014 #12
reddread Mar 2014 #13
Whisp Mar 2014 #40
reddread Mar 2014 #43
Whisp Mar 2014 #44
reddread Mar 2014 #46
Whisp Mar 2014 #49
reddread Mar 2014 #50
tea and oranges Mar 2014 #14
loudsue Mar 2014 #15
bigwillq Mar 2014 #16
NRaleighLiberal Mar 2014 #17
RedstDem Mar 2014 #18
reddread Mar 2014 #19
RedstDem Mar 2014 #20
reddread Mar 2014 #21
RedstDem Mar 2014 #37
reddread Mar 2014 #39
RedstDem Mar 2014 #41
reddread Mar 2014 #47
tea and oranges Mar 2014 #22
LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #23
woo me with science Mar 2014 #24
blue14u Mar 2014 #25
swilton Mar 2014 #26
Beacool Mar 2014 #27
Smarmie Doofus Mar 2014 #28
JDPriestly Mar 2014 #29
reddread Mar 2014 #30
YoungDemCA Mar 2014 #31
SoCalDem Mar 2014 #34
BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #32
Aristus Mar 2014 #33
Octafish Mar 2014 #35
Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #45
wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #48
rustydog Mar 2014 #52

Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 10:24 AM

1. I really like the last paragraph you wrote and

I agree with that. I think that would eliminate a lot of the problems we have.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:33 AM

6. Thought that was interesting also.

The election cycle in the Media (due to advertising revenue) seems to start two years after a President is elected and so the PTB make sure to frontload legislation (which maybe should be throught through more carefully) then Media & Politicians move to the "Mid-Terms" where nothing much gets done...then on to the next Presidential Election.

There's no time to read bills (written by lobbyists) and reflect on the details.

This might be a good fix. I've always thought Senators hold their seats too long and two years for House Reps means they are constantly campaigning for money rather than taking time to read the bills they vote on. Particularly hard on the newly elected House Reps because it takes a year to learn the ropes..and then they only have a year before they are out trying to get re-elected.

Wonder why no one has proposed this? It would mean a change to the Constitution so maybe no one wants to go there.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:41 AM

8. These politicians are constantly campaigning. That's their main job and goal.

They spend very little time legislating. And call me cynical but their main goal in being in office is to feather their nest.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 07:04 PM

42. That's why term limits are a bad idea

Once a congress member becomes so solid that no one runs against them, they don't have to campaign. We have them in MO and the main problem we have found is that Democrats focus on governing while republicans focus on their next campaigns. republicans have more money and don't have to work nearly as hard as Democrats do to get elected. As a result, the year term limits went into effect, the General Assembly flipped to republicans and their margins grow every year.
Not only that, it is really really really bad to have novices in office. There's a new crop of them every year and they have no idea what they are doing. Lobbyists, on the other hand do. And, they propose legislation and get it passed. They also put out legislation doomed to a court challenge just to get unpopular votes to use against Dems.
It's like having a revolving tea party. Just like in congress members who really don't have a clue what the job entails.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:02 AM

2. So WHO do you suggest could be more likely to win than Hillary?

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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:26 AM

5. Go back in time, after Bush's 1st term and ask the same question

Do you come up with the name Barack Obama?

Thought not.

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Response to TalkingDog (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 05:03 PM

36. Sure you do. A lot of folks were talking about him as a Presidential candidate as of late 2004.

 

before the start of Bush's 2nd term

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Democratic_National_Convention_keynote_address#Reception

I mmediately after the speech MSNBC host Chris Matthews admitted, "I have to tell you, a little chill in my legs right now. That is an amazing moment in history right there. It is surely an amazing moment. A keynoter like I have never heard."[26] He added later in the night, "...I have seen the first black president there. And the reason I say that is because I think the immigrant experience combined with the African background, combined with the incredible education, combined with his beautiful speech, not every politician gets help with the speech, but that speech was a piece of work."
.
.
.
Former Jimmy Carter speechwriter Hendrik Hertzberg considered it slightly better than Mario Cuomo's 1984 keynote address, stating, "If he wrote that speech, then he should be president, because it's such a great speech. If he didn't, he should be president because he found such a great speechwriter."
.
.
.
The day after the speech, a Chicago Tribune editorial declared Obama "The Phenom".[35] The Washington Times acknowledged that it would likely disagree with Obama's policies, but compared with John Edwards' speech, "his sentiments had a freshness and a realness that Mr. Edwards' lacked."[36] A reporter for Britain's The Independent declared that the mantle of who was most likely to be the first black president had passed from Colin Powell to Obama,
.
.
.
Senate President Emil Jones responded, "It was such a moving speech that I had tears in my eyes...It was electrifying. When I looked around the room, all across the people were so emotional, tears in their eyes. They're crying. A great individual, a great Illinoisan."
New York Senator Hillary Clinton was quoted saying, "I thought that was one of the most electrifying moments that I can remember at any convention."[42] Alabama Representative Artur Davis pushed the idea of Obama running for president, stating, "If anyone can do it, Obama can...Obama may help break down the stereotypes that an African-American politician is someone only for other blacks...When Obama runs for the White House, he will run not as a candidate for blacks. He has the capacity to run as a candidate for everyone."[32]

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #36)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 06:46 PM

38. and enough are talking about Warren now. n/t

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #38)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 11:48 PM

51. Nope. This is nearly two years later in relative terms.

 

They would have had to be talking about Warren in August of 2012 in the same terms as those pundits were talking about Obama to be comparable.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:04 AM

3. As far as I am aware no one has announced they are running for president in 2016. However, talking

About the midterm elections is a real concern since the republicans have been blocking almost everything, which essentially results in not only a lame duck president, but a lame duck congress.

That the president was able to get through what he has done is simply amazing.

As far as thinking about who should run for president, the respective parties do think about it now because they need to gather appropriate resources. The millions spent in presidential elections is obscene, and with the citizens united ruling it is more necessary than ever to start gathering these resources years before. They have to do their planning, and that means thinking about which possible candidates have the best chance.

Elections today are big business. Why is Hillary's name being thrown about, and some groups starting to collect money for a potential campaign for her, because that is the reality of how elections are run.

Before the bridge scandal, on the republican side, his backers were pushing him to go out to raise funds for 2016. Many in Republican Party thought he had the best chance In 2016. With recent events, it appears that may not be the case. There are groups in the Republican Party who prefer other candidates and ideologies, and they are doing the same for their prospective candidates.

Democrats are doing the same thing because you must start years before, or you will not have the resources to win.

Yes, the reality is that those with money can change the odds in favor of their prospective candidates. Welcome to the 21st century on how elections are run.

However, Howard Dean did demonstrate that a grass roots element can make a difference. Yes, he was wrongly characterized by a corporate media as an "unstable" candidate, mostly due to his opponents throwing the argument out, and the media propagating it, and he did not handle it adequately. However, Barrack Obama learned from those mistakes, and not only became the candidate over the supposed "anointed" one, Hillary, but did not let the media control the talking points, and won the nomination, and the presidency.

The same thing can, and should happen again for someone I 2016, and whether that is a grass roots Hillary, Joe, or someone else, these groups better start now, or they will lose. It also is a necessary endeavor for 2014, which is critical. That is unfortunately the way elections are run today

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:07 AM

4. they would still be for sale...

 

Enact this law that we want, and you will be swimming in money and never have to work again.

Don't enact this law we want and your life will be over. You'll be lucky to get a job flippin' burgers.

See how easy that is?

That is how Wall Street has been working for a few decades now....

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:39 AM

7. hindsight means nothing to the blind

 

people still remember Edwards fondly, despite the historical lessons of his candidacy.
If we havent learned yet how phony the process is, we may never.
Look back at the last twenty and thirty years, and apply those painful lessons to
today.
or we are done.

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Response to reddread (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:57 AM

9. We are done already...we're just debating the speed at which we hit the brick wall...

Think of it this way, society is in a car that has been hijacked by lunatics who don't believe in the brick wall in front of them. Not only do they not believe in it, they are convinced that because they have said "there is no wall" like a mantra for so long that the real wall is no longer there.

There is a second group of people; who are outside of the car, but still in the blast radius of the pending explosion, that are paying the lunatics and refueling the car for them. These people are convinced that they will be safe from harm, although in reality they will suffer just as much as the idiots in the car, only not as immediately.

The much smaller and largely ignored third group of people is in front of the wall frantically waving for it to swerve, slow down or stop...


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Response to Moostache (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:29 PM

10. +1,000,000!

How about if we get one lunatic to shift over and let another lunatic take us the rest of the way? That should change everything!

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Response to Moostache (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:29 PM

11. not necessarily

 

interesting metaphor.
In fact I was heading straight for a brick wall, 17 years old and drunk as a skunk at an after hours softball game blowout when my terrified passenger pointed out that pile of mortar and bricks in front of my hotrod Mustang I was looking to impress them, not the wall,
with.
It is never too late to cry "Brick wall at the back of the theater"
or "theater!" in a fire.

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Response to reddread (Reply #11)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:30 PM

12. Anyone who does that gets thrown under the capacious DU bus n/t

(Sorry about the mixed metaphors. And I must hasten to add that both vehicles are running on "clean coal."

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:35 PM

13. only by a few, no matter how persistent they are, they are only a few

 

god bless them. they are the surest evidence of the illusion.

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Response to reddread (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 06:49 PM

40. eeesh, I sure wouldn't make driving drunk sound like an adventurish fun time...

 

I would be so ashamed I wouldn't mention it to a soul, that is if I didn't end up killing someone. Then I guess mention would be made by someone.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #40)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 07:09 PM

43. ill leave those worries to the deceivers and hypocrites

 

Since I have never been DUI'd or arrested, I guess I have either been lucky or good.
Usually good. On rare occasion, blind drunk, and immature or grief struck, or in some cases, helped along by the kind of
friends who will see you off, as Bill Hicks might have said.
NOT a subservient, law abiding subject.
Not a menace.
Not a liar.
I'll take my lumps.
Fuck anyone who thinks they can lord anything over me, or dismiss me out of hand for any reason.
I am an American.
Drunk driving by genetically cursed individuals deprived my remaining relatives of their only son.
Dont preach or try to teach, just think for yourself, if you can.
Its never too late to point out the brick wall.
And if you think it is, or tell others that is so, than you have joined the opposition,
by quitting.

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Response to reddread (Reply #43)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 07:41 PM

44. drunk drivers are a menace, sorry if that hurts your feelings. n/t

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #44)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 08:32 PM

46. not at all, but thanks for considering them

 

self righteous prigs aint so great either.

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Response to reddread (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 08:36 PM

49. you really want to go there, don't you?

 

okay then:

Find me a chart of deaths from 'self righteous prigs' that think drunk driving is not a joke. or funny.

I think I'll leave you alone in your, ahem, thoughts on that.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #49)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 08:39 PM

50. I do

 

Lets you and me go get drug tested.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:55 PM

14. Your analogy is perfect

I'd just change the car to clown car.

We know the presidency is important, but we've witnessed just how much the other legislative bodies can hamstring a president.

Let us focus on the mid-terms & make sure that the R's don't take the senate while losing their unholy grip on the house.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:56 PM

15. AND the supreme court! We need to impeach some of those bastards NOW!

Citizens United? "Faux Snooze" is an entertainment company so it can lie its ass off and call itself news?

And George bush is president, but this case CAN NOT SET PRECEDENT? WTF???

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:56 PM

16. I vote for neither

 

It would be more of the same old, same old (no pun intended). I really don't have an issue with their ages, although I would like to see someone younger win.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:01 PM

17. A "Nother Neither" here.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:02 PM

18. wouldnt they both be on their first term?

 

lol, just kidding. I agree 99.9%!

though I'd be a little more lenient for Joe

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Response to RedstDem (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:05 PM

19. Clarence Thomas n/t

 

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Response to reddread (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:13 PM

20. please dont say that name

 

he makes me wanna puke.

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Response to RedstDem (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:15 PM

21. as Biden does me

 

Because of Biden's sole responsibility for allowing that mockery of Thurgood Marshall to ascend,
he literally is the most hated human on my planet.
some things I cant get over.
that will be the last.

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Response to reddread (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 06:43 PM

37. biden makes you wanna puke?

 

can just imagine what a generic republican does to you.

body cast?
lol


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Response to RedstDem (Reply #37)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 06:48 PM

39. I teke that sort of treachery more seriously than honest morons.

 

the ramifications of the Biden controlled Thomas hearings have THUNDERED through the last 20 years of history.
And people think that capped tooth, hair plug fella has something to offer.
he has done all the damage he can, back when.

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Response to reddread (Reply #39)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 06:59 PM

41. thomas cant even bring himself to speak while in court

 

showing contempt for the very system he's tasked with maintaining. total douche.
I can see how that could stick in anyone's craw.
also the bankruptcy law sucks too.

hope he beats Hilliary in the primary though.



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Response to RedstDem (Reply #41)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 08:36 PM

47. he could not get arrested.

 

No way is he any concern of hers.
He is a bad joke. A stalking horse in a field those who wish to pick the winners would define.
Warren is her nightmare.
Back the right horse, and all will be well, of course.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:16 PM

22. There's the Outta Touch Problem

Too many of our legislators are way too old! There are cognitive deficiencies that show up in later years; I think we see that plainly in Mitch McConnell, age 83.

It's not that I want tech-savvy pols - I want pols who care about their constituents. When you've lived in the Washington bubble as long as McConnell, Reid (although he's getting feisty lately), McCain, Biden, & too many others, you're not only out of touch by reason of profession, money, power, but you can't relate to the issues of younger people either.

Which may explain the disgraceful way we allow our young adults to graduate from college w/ $100,000 in debt.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:26 PM

23. Neither for me.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:29 PM

24. I liked your headline and last paragraph.

I frankly don't care how old our next President is. I just want someone passionate and committed to ending the surveillance state and stopping the endless wars and corporate takeover of this country.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:29 PM

25. I agree with Term Limits..

I have seen first hand what unlimited years in office

can and will do to an elected servant. Maybe someone new would be able to

be bought off and the next one groomed and paid for in every election after. IDK

Have we lost all [possibilities to find an honest, loyal, and of moral character candidate

to represent us in these privileged posts? If so what the heck are we doing even trying

now?

There is a large, very large populist movement growing, we are ripe for the picking

and we have had enough!!! If by the time the 2014 and 2016 elections are done, possible before, this Nation,

or maybe I should say the poorer among us, just will not make it.. They have squeezed the life from us already..

Now it's just the short slow death we wait for..

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:35 PM

26. Technology does not trump the humanities

 

Having said that I wouldn't want Biden or Clinton either.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:36 PM

27. Who said that anyone is owed the presidency?

If Hillary is so high in every single poll taken in the last few years, is because the vast majority of Democrats DO want her to run. Just because some people may not think of her as their favorite candidate, it does not mean that other Democrats feel that way. It should be obvious by now.

As for Biden, I think that he's a great guy, but as someone put it succinctly: Biden's misfortune is that he was meant to be a second banana. Other than in his head and those of a handful of people around him, there's no one clamoring for a Biden run. I could see someone like Warren making inroads, if she was interested in running and she seems not to be, but not Biden.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:37 PM

28. Neither.. n/t

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:55 PM

29. We have term limits in California. The politicians spend a lot of time looking for their next job.

Based on the experience we have had in California, I would say that term limits do not help.

But iI recommended your post because I do not think that either Biden or Hillary are the answer. I'm for either Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders.

Hillary has a lot of baggage that many Democrats know nothing about. Benghazi was bad luck. But Hillary has a lot of problems with her past that were a matter of poor judgment. Democrats may like her, but most of them don't know what I'm sure Republicans will use against her in 2016. Lots of embarrassing foreign policy problems. Oh, dear. And then her vote for the War in Iraq and her discourtesy to the Code Pink group who visited Iraq and then begged Hillary (respectfully) not to vote for the Iraq Resolution. Her love of H1-B visas. Her services to the oil cartels. There are a lot of scandals that will turn off the very Democratic voters that now poll so well for her. Those Democratic voters just don't yet know who Hillary is.

That's why I K&R'd the OP here.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:12 PM

31. "In this time we live in, gender (female) trumps sitting-veep."

 

Please clarify this sentence. I'm not sure I follow?

Thanks.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:47 PM

34. The media is obsessed with the "first female president" meme

They chased their tails in '08 because they could never decide which excited them the most..... first black or first woman.

It's as if they have already chosen the "next great thing"..

People forget how fickle polls are and how wrong they often are.

Back in Dec 2007 it was supposed to be a knockdown-brawl between Hillary & 911iani..

Joe Biden will be one of thew very few veeps who does not benefit (in the polls) from being a two termer in a clean admin.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:14 PM

32. Rec'd for the intelligent point about age

It's not old/young per se, but intuitively understanding the impact of technology would be a real asset for anyone who wants to begin to steer this colossus of ours into the future. It also helps win elections. Obama won the last election with analytics as much as anything. The Clintons would like to cut-and-paste his organization, but will they place the same value on the information/insights it is capable of producing?

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:14 PM

33. Warren-Grayson, or Grayson-Warren.

Unless the Republicans run George Clooney or somebody, I'm voting for the Democratic candidate.

Protest votes are folly...

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Mar 1, 2014, 04:57 PM

35. Neither.

Both may be the lights of the Democratic Party, entitled to the job, based on some of what I've seen on DU. I'm getting into AARP territory, too. One good thing is that I've seen how both have been more swell to Wall Street and War Inc. than Main Street and a future built on peace.

Regarding term limits, SoCalDem: We have them here in Michigan. While they cause a nice churn of the deadwood in Lansing, it also points out the shortcomings. With no institutional memory, each new class has shown itself to be dumber than the previous. The only thing that matters to them are identifying their sorry selves with Pruneface Raygon and his trickle down lunacy and tax cut piracy. The winners are the Koch Brothers-DeVos family-Ownership Class lobbyists who get to brief the morons and write the legislation, which increasingly tumbles harder and harder to the right. The losers? We the People of the Great Lakes State.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 07:44 PM

45. I didn't know Steve Kimock was considering running.

sure, I'll vote for him.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 08:36 PM

48. neither! n/t

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 12:03 AM

52. THANK YOU SoCalDem! so well stated!

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