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Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:02 AM

I visited an e-cig store, last weekend. It was quite an educational field trip.

The only products were electronic cigarette components--"e-juice," batteries, chargers, adapters, tanks, and so on. But what they were marketing was so much more than mere e-cigs. For sale was an amazing hybrid of healthy living, elegance, and patriotism.

The store was set up almost like a VIP lounge at a swanky club. There were lots of bar tables and chairs, interspersed with high-end recliners and leather couches--even a pool table. On prominent display was a large glass bowl filled with what were, ostensibly, the last tobacco products of customers who made the switch to e-cigs. And flavor lists, four to five pages long, were scattered across every tabletop, along with typewritten handouts enumerating the health and economic benefits of "vaping" versus tobacco use.

Is it a fair statement to say that vapers and vaping comprise a new and distinctive subculture? Do my fellow DUers have any insight--pro, con, or neutral--into this phenomenon?

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Reply I visited an e-cig store, last weekend. It was quite an educational field trip. (Original post)
Fridays Child Feb 2014 OP
msongs Feb 2014 #1
awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #3
seattledo Feb 2014 #34
awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #36
awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #4
arely staircase Feb 2014 #10
Fridays Child Feb 2014 #12
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2014 #16
Live and Learn Feb 2014 #31
Tyhanna Feb 2014 #25
Live and Learn Feb 2014 #32
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #2
ErikJ Feb 2014 #5
Tyhanna Feb 2014 #18
Warpy Feb 2014 #6
Bonobo Feb 2014 #7
Warpy Feb 2014 #8
Bonobo Feb 2014 #9
Tyhanna Feb 2014 #20
Hekate Feb 2014 #11
Fridays Child Feb 2014 #13
Tyhanna Feb 2014 #27
Hekate Feb 2014 #35
RandiFan1290 Feb 2014 #14
MisterP Feb 2014 #15
Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2014 #17
Tyhanna Feb 2014 #23
Scootaloo Feb 2014 #30
MADem Feb 2014 #26
Skip Intro Feb 2014 #19
Autumn Feb 2014 #21
sweetloukillbot Feb 2014 #28
Tyhanna Feb 2014 #22
tkmorris Feb 2014 #24
Oilwellian Feb 2014 #33
musiclawyer Feb 2014 #29

Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:11 AM

1. drug addicts finding new ways to poison their neighbors with nicotine is "elegance"? ok nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:27 AM

3. Or, people addicted to nicotine...

 

who only smoke outside, away from other people, trying to get off nicotine. I never smoked around non smokers, and I don't use my e cig around other people. And never indoors. So, yeah, I guess I poison others. I get I am just a shithead.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:21 AM

34. get off nicotine?

 

Or, getting off *on* nicotine?

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Response to seattledo (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:52 AM

36. I have not only reduced....

 

the number of times a day I used the e cig, but I have also reduced the strength of the e juice I am using.

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:28 AM

4. And, for the record...

 

I know the affects of second hand vapor are not known, which is why I treat them like real cigarettes and don't use them around others.

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:20 AM

10. poisoning others? howz? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:39 AM

12. In any case...

...this was one of the marketing approaches that I observed. It's very much in line with the television commercial which features Jenny McCarthy vamping at a night club while she smokes her Blu e-cig.

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:28 PM

16. Curious. Do you consider addiction a disease?

 

I find the disdain for and stigmatization of smokers you display to be appalling.

Not to mention your apparent lack of understanding about how e-cigs work.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:05 AM

31. +1 nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:10 AM

25. Do you...

Do you drink coffee or drink alcohol of any kind? If so you are a drug addict also.

How do you believe neighbors are poisoning their neighbors with nicotine?

Do they eat tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, or any of the other nightshade vegetables? Then they are taking in nicotine and so is everyone else that eats these produce. the nicotine that is in second hand vapor is no more than what a person gets from any one of these produce items. and on top of that the vapor dissipates in the air in 11 seconds. So the person would have to be standing right next to the person and the person would have to blow the vaper right in the person face to get any nicotine at all then it still wouldn't be any more that what come naturally in the above mentioned vegetables.


Learn what it is you are commenting on here.

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:11 AM

32. I hope you are aware that many of those

you see vaping are vaping juices with no nicotine at all. It must really irk you not to be able to differentiate who the actual "drug addicts" are anymore.

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:11 AM

2. I don't know about a new sub-culture, as of yet.

But, that sounds similar to the one here in OK, minus the patriotism, though the managers are all packing heat. I don't get that reference. Every time I have been, the lounge is closed. LOL!

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:37 AM

5. I think its great. The govt and big tobacco not so much.

 

States make big money through cig taxes so they are understandably trying to kill e-cigs. Big tobacco is handling it better bcuz they are starting to get into the e-cig game themselves.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:36 PM

18. not taxed

In most states e-cigarettes are not taxed over the normal sales tax.

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:40 AM

6. Anything is better than inhaling concentrated smoke into your lungs

except maybe that wad of chaw next to your cheek. They're both lethal.

While people are going to get all the harmful effects of nicotine with the e-cigs, they're not going to be inhaling all those by products that gum up lung tissue. Within 2 weeks, their senses of taste and smell will be back and the smoke flavor juice will be nasty and they'll switch to something else.

In addition, instead of compulsively smoking every cigarette down to the butt, they'll take only as many hits as they need, thus tapering themselves down without even realizing it.

So yeah, they're a great idea for everybody but heart patients. Those folks need to quit nicotine. An e cig with flavored, no nicotine juice can help.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:47 AM

7. Absolutely right.

It would be nice to see a little more compassion and a little less assholery on this issue.

As you probably know, it is not the nicotine that is the carcinogen and depending on how quickly nicotine is absorbed through through your lungs, the water vapor output may have no nicotine at all --and as I said but which SOME people don't seem to grasp, the nicotine is NOT the harmful element in cigarettes. Not what most people mean when they say cigarettes are killers anyway.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:59 AM

8. Actually, you need to read up on nicotine's effect on smooth muscle

which is they type lining the arteries. It most definitely is harmful, especially in those people with a strong family history of heart disease.

It's only one part of the puzzle, but it's a big part. Denial isn't helping you build consensus.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:01 AM

9. Not denial, ignorance I guess. I guess I need to do some reading. nt

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

20. sorry it wasnt the nicotine that did that

It was all the other things in tobacco smoke that did that not the nicotine.

"Electronic cigarettes, contrary to tobacco, do not stiffen the arteries



A new study



A new study about electronic cigarettes was presented during the annual congress of the European Association of Cardiovascular Imaging (EUROECHO 2013, Istanbul, Turkey). The study evaluated the effects of electronic cigarettes on aortic elasticity, compared with the respective effects of tobacco cigarettes.

Blood vessels need to be elastic in order to properly deliver blood from the heart to the vital organs. It is well-known that one of the main adverse effects of smoking is acute stiffening of the blood vessels. Aorta, the central artery which delivers blood from the heart to every part of the human body, is particularly affected by smoking. Until now, the effects of electronic cigarette use were unknown....."


[link:http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/research/2013/144-electronic-cigarettes-contrary|

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:28 AM

11. Big Tobacco has found a new way to peddle their addictive product, that is all

I don't know the relative costs of sustaining the habit via cigarettes versus this new means of delivering the dose, but if the new way looks affordable now, I can assure you it will not be that way for long. Just look at the number of necessary components -- at their most basic, regular cigs are the more or less raw product plus a packet of matches, and what with taxes and all they are plenty expensive. E-cigs are much more complexly manufactured.

For all the veneer of sophistication, it's still Big Tobacco delivering the user a dose of nicotine. Whether you choose to remain addicted is up to you -- it is legal, after all -- but would you want it peddled to your kids the way Joe Camel was peddled to mine?

Just saying.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 05:20 AM

13. This topic has provoked some pretty strong responses.

My OP doesn't take a position but only solicits the views of DUers as to the evolution of vaping as a cultural phenomenon. I haven't used nicotine in more than a decade. I don't intend to revisit the addiction--electronically or otherwise--and I certainly don't advocate peddling it to children. But here it is, in all of its candy-flavored glory. Joe Camel seems almost a quaint notion, by comparison.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:27 AM

27. big tobacco had nothing to do with....

Big tobacco had nothing to do with e-cigarettes until 2013. E-cigarettes have been on the market since 2004 in china and other countries over seas and came here to the US in 2009. Big tobacco only jumped on board in 2013. They are marketed to the adult smoker.
The PV (personal vaporizer) I use has nothing to do with big tobacco at all, there are only 3-4 e-cigarettes on the market that are from big tobacco, and in the over all market there are probably thousands of different name brands. There is a lot more to e-cigarettes than the little cig-look-alikes that you see at the corner gas station. There are 3 generations of e-cigs already.

Advertising wasn't what cause me to start smoking 40 years ago, peer pressure and rebellion did. Kids make up their minds mostly by what their friends are doing at the time, same with drinking. We haven't had advertising for cigarettes for years and years but kids still continued to start smoking even with heavier laws and restrictions. Kids are all the time trying to do adult things or things they are forbidden to do. When is everyone going to wake up to this?

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Response to Tyhanna (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:10 AM

35. That's fine. You keep telling yourself that. Just....

....follow the money trail.

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 06:37 AM

14. My sister and I quit smoking almost 2 years ago

She started having cravings after 6 months and I got her an ecig with ZERO nicotine. That took care of the cravings she was having and stopped her from returning to cigarettes.

I love the ecigs. They are helping many of my friends finally kick the cig habit. I think the fad will fade after a while and many will have ditched the cigarettes for good.
I KNOW that bothers a lot of people

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:22 PM

15. hey, same sales pitch as "Rent-a-Swag"!

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 05:19 PM

17. I have a rommmate who is a e-cig seller -

 

From what I have seen first hand and from the roomie, here in SF there is definitely a bit of a subculture starting. Personally I see it mostly among the younger tech/club/hipster crowds. I've always found the visual image of someone puffing away on a cig as sexy or sophisticated rather silly -- now it seems doubly so with them sucking away on their latest toy.

I can appreciate that regular cigarette smokers are using them to quit, but I have my doubts the chemicals used to create the vapor and the flavorings are much better than some of the crap in tobacco cigs.

On edit: I wanted to add that my household is a non-smoking one, but the roomie felt it was OK to puff on his e-cig constantly. Now instead of tobacco smell I am stuck with a nasty chemical "strawberry" stink throughout the place.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:02 AM

23. Oh so...

Oh so smelling "strawberry" is worse than smelling cigarette smoke? You should be very happy for your roommate that he has quit smoking and is no longer taking In all those nasty chemicals. Instead you sound very negative about it.

As far as the ingredients in the e-liquid you should read this study.

http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/research/2013/111-first-toxicology-study-on-vapor-proves-electronic-cigarettes-are-much-better-than-tobacco

there are other studies done about the safety of the e-juice that I could post also. we didn't want to go from the frying pan into the fire.

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Response to Tyhanna (Reply #23)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:41 AM

30. Depending on the particular scent?

 

I DO prefer the smell of tobacco smoke over any number of supposedly "pleasant" but chemical-derived smells. The average "sea breeze"-scented candle is like a thousand needles bouncing around in my nasal cavity, and I'm left tasting it in the back of my throat for hours afterwards.

Overactive olfactories combined with synaesthesia makes it a hard time. If I were to describe the... sensation of chemical strawberry to you, it'd be "A laser pointer screaming at 30 decibels being shoved up my nose while I stand on a mud beach at low tide in august." It's a combination of high-velocity impact and a creeping miasma of stink.

Tobacco smoke just smells like bad teeth and the color of my first girlfriend's dry elbows. Please don't tell her I said this

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:27 AM

26. Tell the roommate to switch to the "Frebreze" or "Pine-Sol" flavored e-cigs!!

That way people will think the maid just left!

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:39 PM

19. Many people "quit" smoking with these things. It has to be better than ciggs. For all concerned.

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:57 PM

21. I bought one 3 weeks ago. I bought 3 bottles of the juice which

is some kind of oil with nicotine in it a menthol, a tobacco blend that reminds me of Marlboro's and a black and mild. I have found that it has worked very well to change my habit. I no longer grab it first thing in the morning, I don't think of smoking when I have coffee or pick up the phone. I have found that for the last week I don't even inhale it most of the time. When these bottles run out I will have them put in less nicotine in the next one. I like the fact that there is no odor and I have had no desire for an actual cigarette.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:28 AM

28. I tried to quit for years but when I switched to an e-cig it worked

I started with light nicotine juice, switched to ultra-light after a month and then to no nic after another month. I still use it occasionally because I do enjoy the sensation, but I haven't had tobacco for 3 years and nicotine for slightly less than that. And to the original question, I definitely think there is a subculture - the smoking area outside my work has gone from 1 or 2 guys w/ e-cigs to 8 or 9 with e-cigs and hardly anyone with cigarettes. When I first bought my setup and juices, I needed to get them mail-order, now there is a chain in town that I patronize and it seems like new shops/lounges are springing up everywhere.
I'm not sure how long it will last though, because I think the government is starting to notice and they are going to be reclassified soon. And when that happens I expect it is going to be a problem for all those lounges that are opening up.

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:42 AM

22. E-cigs saved my life

E-cigarettes are for those people that just couldn't stop smoking, or didnt want to stop smoking, for those that had tried all other avenues to quit, and everything failed. They are also for those that enjoy smoking but want something that is safer.

I smoked for 40 years, I tried over and over to quit, and just failed each time. I had resigned my self to the fact I would never be able to stop and would die from smoke related health problems. Then e-cigarettes came into my life. Being I was already getting symptoms of COPD I was scared not to try them. They work, I haven't had a cigarette in almost 14 months now. I have no cravings for "the cigarette" and I have no cravings for nicotine, just withdraw symptoms if I haven't had enough. Nicotine they have found when by it self is no worse than Caffeine in addiction level. The main flavors I use are fruit and candy flavors (im 56 years old). I don't like or want the taste of tobacco, in fact tobacco tastes terrible to me. So for me and a lot of others the flavors play a very important part of making the switch. The fun flavors you will find are also in the nicotine gum and lozenges, and also in different kinds of alcohols, they are marketed to adults not children.

I plan on not stopping using my PV (personal vaporizer), I get positive effects from the nicotine like it helps with focus, memory, helps with pain some what. It helps with depression, and helps with staying calm and I have no side effects from it. I would have to be on a hand full of RX drugs with lots of side effects if it weren't for nicotine. As more studies are completed I think it will be where more people are treated with nicotine with different medical problems, UC is already being treated with nicotine in some people. Nicotine is not the evil thing it has been portrayed to be, it was the burning tobacco that was the evil thing. People have been told over and over to hate something (nicotine) they don't totally understand or know about. Its time people start understanding and learning.

I can see a day where there is no burning tobacco, e-cigarettes will help in having this happen. People smoke for the nicotine, just like most people drink coffee for the caffeine. There are those that have been using the nicotine patches, gum, lozenges for years and nobody frowns on them. About 10 to 14 million are using e-cigarettes around the world today, that is 10-14 million less smoking cigarettes. More people are jumping on the bandwagon every day. I can see it will be the way of the future.

Is an safer alternative to smoking a subculture? I don't believe its a subculture anymore that people going to starbucks for their fancy coffee. Is drinking alcohol a subculture? Smokers have been pushed in shadows and looked down on for years. Now they have found something that brings them out of the shadows, something that is 99% safer than smoking. Every one in this country has the right to their own devises, drinking alcohol, drinking caffeine, extreme sports for the adrenaline high, sugar, fats, or whatever it is as long as it brings no danger to anyone else.

Who's standard of life does everyone need to live by or do we set our own standards of life? There are those that would do away with all caffeine, others that would do away with alcohol and so on.

Yes there is a community of people who use e-cigarettes, yes there is a lot more to vaping than there was to smoking. Vaping is more social than smoking was. And yes the vape shops are like the gentlemen clubs that had cigar smoking rooms with out the harm. In all the community its people helping other people stay off smoking, informal support groups per say. For most of these people everything else they tried failed for them so its a new life for them with out cigarettes. Some of these people you will find X hard core smokers and people that didn't want to stop smoking to begin with. We are now non-smokers and we don't want to be sent out with the smokers to breath in second hand smoke.

There is nothing like the moment you realize the monkey on your back is gone. That horrible nagging feeling for the cigarette is gone, and you are free of them for good. That 10 years down the road you wont still be craving for a cigarette. ( know ive talked to people that have quit a conventional way and 20 years later they still get cravings) So I can say 20 years from now I wont be still getting those cravings they are gone 100%.

People should be congratulating these people instead of the negative responses I see. Smokers are demonized every day, remember they are people that have a mental addiction to cigarettes that is not easy to brake. The physical addiction is minor. Remember the cigarettes were enhanced ( chemicals added like a MAOI and others) to make them more mentally addictive. To brake this addiction is no easy task for many. By treating smokers badly or telling them to quit doesn't make It any better for them. Demonizing just makes the whole thing worse for them.

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Response to Tyhanna (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:06 AM

24. Great post

Thanks for the personal anecdote. I have been considering these devices and was hoping this thread would have more posts like yours. I appreciate the time you spent to make it.

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Response to Tyhanna (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:16 AM

33. I think they saved my life as well

Forty year smoker here and was finally able to quit due to ecigs. I no longer cough, have a lot more energy, and my lungs are clear. I also haven't experienced any weight gain that many see after they quit smoking. Also, we're spending 75% less than we were for cigs. That alone has to be fantastic for the economy if people are buying other things with that saved money.

As you can see by the pic, I've gotten very serious about my vaping experience. Just have to replace the battery and wicks for the tank

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Response to Fridays Child (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:38 AM

29. e cigs are here to stay .....because of cannabis

Cannabis will be legal accross half the USA in ten years. The best weed is best vaped
E-cig style. Or is should say many people who like to vape yet be mobile will switch to cig style when there are sufficient quality tinctures and oil varieties on the market and easily available

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