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Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:17 PM

 

Holder to Boston: #%^* you.

We run a civilized city here: only 33% of Bostonians want the imprisoned Bomber Brother to be killed for his crime.

You'd think Holder would respect the wishes of the very people that were the target of the attack, right? But, no, gotta kill. Probably afraid of the mean things Fox "News" would say otherwise.

Feh. I'm in a really foul mood tonight.

131 replies, 44591 views

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Arrow 131 replies Author Time Post
Reply Holder to Boston: #%^* you. (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 OP
quinnox Jan 2014 #1
kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #4
DefenseLawyer Jan 2014 #6
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #20
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #32
JustAnotherGen Jan 2014 #78
11 Bravo Jan 2014 #105
arely staircase Jan 2014 #38
nikto Jan 2014 #68
Scuba Jan 2014 #72
Laelth Jan 2014 #80
cali Jan 2014 #81
Laelth Jan 2014 #87
KeepItReal Jan 2014 #21
warrant46 Feb 2014 #124
gLibDem Jan 2014 #63
DragonBorn Jan 2014 #93
sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #58
bravenak Jan 2014 #103
1000words Jan 2014 #2
hrmjustin Jan 2014 #3
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #10
hrmjustin Jan 2014 #12
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #16
hrmjustin Jan 2014 #18
morningfog Jan 2014 #5
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #13
morningfog Jan 2014 #31
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #34
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #35
Liberal_Dog Jan 2014 #102
MH1 Jan 2014 #7
DefenseLawyer Jan 2014 #8
MH1 Jan 2014 #14
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #9
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #37
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #43
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #49
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #56
MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #42
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #48
gLibDem Jan 2014 #65
Fawke Em Feb 2014 #115
gLibDem Feb 2014 #118
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #11
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #17
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #19
HangOnKids Jan 2014 #70
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #74
BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #26
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #47
gLibDem Jan 2014 #66
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #75
Desert805 Jan 2014 #23
BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #24
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #29
Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #100
morningfog Jan 2014 #33
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #36
morningfog Jan 2014 #44
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #46
morningfog Jan 2014 #51
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #53
morningfog Jan 2014 #54
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #55
morningfog Jan 2014 #57
geek tragedy Jan 2014 #59
X_Digger Jan 2014 #15
davidn3600 Jan 2014 #97
DevonRex Jan 2014 #22
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #25
DevonRex Jan 2014 #27
MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #39
DevonRex Jan 2014 #40
MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #41
morningfog Jan 2014 #45
cali Jan 2014 #85
morningfog Jan 2014 #50
lpbk2713 Jan 2014 #28
Warpy Jan 2014 #30
DrewFlorida Jan 2014 #52
Fawke Em Jan 2014 #60
cali Jan 2014 #83
DrewFlorida Jan 2014 #89
cali Jan 2014 #90
DrewFlorida Jan 2014 #91
cali Jan 2014 #92
rhett o rick Jan 2014 #61
gLibDem Jan 2014 #62
former9thward Jan 2014 #110
gLibDem Jan 2014 #114
TheMathieu Jan 2014 #64
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #67
Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #79
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #94
Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #108
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #109
Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #111
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #113
BeyondGeography Jan 2014 #82
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #95
DemocraticWing Jan 2014 #69
Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #71
seaglass Jan 2014 #73
Blue_Adept Jan 2014 #76
Fawke Em Feb 2014 #116
LineReply .
randome Jan 2014 #77
lapislzi Jan 2014 #84
aikoaiko Jan 2014 #86
morningfog Jan 2014 #101
aikoaiko Jan 2014 #104
Fawke Em Feb 2014 #117
soundsgreat Feb 2014 #119
aikoaiko Feb 2014 #121
msanthrope Jan 2014 #88
PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #112
FSogol Feb 2014 #127
LanternWaste Jan 2014 #96
Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #98
bullwinkle428 Jan 2014 #99
JoePhilly Jan 2014 #106
Lost_Count Jan 2014 #107
morningfog Feb 2014 #122
Lost_Count Feb 2014 #123
morningfog Feb 2014 #125
Lost_Count Feb 2014 #126
morningfog Feb 2014 #128
Lost_Count Feb 2014 #130
morningfog Feb 2014 #131
treestar Feb 2014 #120
uponit7771 Feb 2014 #129

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:18 PM

1. Holder has been one of the worst attorney generals

 

He is barely a notch above Ashcroft. That Obama has such loyalty to this asshole is a sad reflection of his policies.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:20 PM

4. I strongly disagree. He's been one of the best. EOP nt

 

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:25 PM

6. Exactly what has Holder done well?

 

Attacking medical marijuana? giving Wall Street a free pass? Keeping Governor Siegelman in jail? Do tell.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:54 PM

20. Let me guess : you're not a black voter in

 

a state with a Republican legislature.

Or one of the DOMA plaintiffs.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:11 AM

32. Okay...kudos...I literally laughed out loud!

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 08:16 AM

78. you totally

Won the internet with this!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:12 PM

105. There are times when you piss me off, and there are times when I want to hug you.

This is definitely one of the latter. Well done!

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:16 AM

38. suing the racist Texas Lege.

on behalf of the people they are trying to disinfranchise. Hder is a hero to Texas Democrats.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 02:39 AM

68. Lots of stuff...

 

Uh...He looks good in a suit.

He...um...likes little puppies and kittens, I'm pretty sure.

He's got a cool mustache, in an era when many mustaches fail.

He looks great in a suit. Really, he does.




Hey, this stuff counts!

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 07:13 AM

72. Bingo.

 

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 09:51 AM

80. Holder has handled civil rights and voting rights matters very well.

And the Supreme Court put an end to that by gutting the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

On every other issue of which I am aware, Holder has been a Republican Attorney General. If I wanted a Republican Attorney General, I would have voted for McCain or Romney.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #80)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 09:54 AM

81. spot on! this, this, this.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #81)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:12 AM

87. Good morning, cali.

Nice to see you.



-Laelth

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:55 PM

21. Citibank and Goldman Sachs agree with you

No criminal prosecutions just fines...most of which end up being tax deductible for the financial institutions

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Response to KeepItReal (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 10:25 AM

124. The old slap on the wrist

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:47 AM

63. Not really.

 

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:45 AM

93. Are ... are you serious ...?

He's one of the worst attorney generals we've had in recent memory.

Operation Fast and Furious
Targeting of dispensaries
The partnering with the Sinaloa Cartel
HSBC bank financial settlements for laundering drug and terrorist money


That's just what I remember off the top of my head....

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Response to quinnox (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:11 AM

58. Yes, what a disappointment he has been! To say the least ...

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Response to quinnox (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:08 PM

103. Wrong.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:19 PM

2. Go give "Third Way Manny" a wedgie

 

You'll feel better.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:20 PM

3. Agreed! He should be put away for life.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:43 PM

10. I actually think he should be found guilty, first. eom

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:46 PM

12. I agree but I think he did it.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:50 PM

16. I just have to say I don't know.

Because he's under those extremely harsh SAMs (which I consider unConstitutuional, but I'm not Holder. Feh.), we really haven't heard from his defense attorneys - we've only heard one side.

I covered enough court cases in my day to know that a case isn't always exactly what law enforcement tells you.

That said, he could be guilty. I just see some holes no one has answered.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:51 PM

18. Good points. we will just have to see how it unfolds.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:20 PM

5. He said fuck you to the city, the state and the region.

 

Disgusting decision.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:47 PM

13. Does it make you sick to your soul? nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:10 AM

31. I think it is shameful and disgusting.

 

I am against the death penalty, without exception. The younger the defendant, the even worse it is.

I don't think I've ever seen anything that makes me "sick to my soul." Strange thing to ask.

How does it make your soul feel?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:12 AM

34. Meh. I oppose the death penalty as a policy,

 

but this is one candlelight vigil I'll be skipping.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:13 AM

35. Not even the bombing itself?

 

including that poor family?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:07 PM

102. "Sick To My Soul" Is A Reference To An OP By WilliamPitt Yesterday

I am not exactly sure what you have to do with Mr. Pitt.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:35 PM

7. At least one victims' parents asked for the DP

according to an article I read.

Personally, I'm categorically anti death penalty. But I don't get too twisted up over a case like this. Unfortunately it's accepted practice in the country generally (even if not in Boston). There doesn't seem too much doubt of guilt in this case, and it truly was a heinous crime. I wouldn't pick the DP if it were up to me, but if we're ever going to use it, this is the kind of case where it should apply.

And if I were basing my decision on a vote of people's feelings on it (which I wouldn't be since I'm categorically against it), I would be more interested in the victims' families' opinions than Boston at large.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:41 PM

8. So if a victim's family wants him drawn and quartered?

 

Is that going to be on the table? I have nothing but empathy for a family that has lost a loved one, but they probably aren't the most objective people to be deciding public policy. Vengeance should not be an aspect of our penal system.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:48 PM

14. I agree with you on that, which is why,

I wouldn't be taking a poll if it were up to me.

I was responding to the point the OP attempts to make that this is against the wishes of most Bostonians. Personally I don't think it should be up to a poll of anyone.

That said, I'm not going to shed many tears for this bomber. I'm against the DP because of what it does to society, and the potential for innocents to be killed by the state. I don't think the latter is an issue here, and unfortunately the former's ship has already sailed long ago.

I guess what I'm saying is, yeah it's an unfortunate decision, but not the worst thing that happened in the world today. And with that I'm out of here; more worthwhile things to concern myself with.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:42 PM

9. I read the filing.

And, No 5 of the non-statuatory aggravating factors gave me pause.

It's said, "Shows Lack of Remorse."

Correct me here, but didn't Dzhokhar Tsarnaev plead "not guilty?" As such, he is currently saying he did NOT commit the crime for which he is accused; therefore, how can he feel remorse for something he didn't do?

Which brings me to the second point: reporters, social media, the average citizens have pretty much convicted this guy. When I was reporting on crime, the suspect was, well, a suspect until he either entered a plea or was found guilty by a jury of his peers. All I see on my Twitter feed regarding this issue is how he should be bombed or burned or shot - not a word about the fact that he's not actually been found guilty, yet.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:15 AM

37. Maybe he doesn't show sympathy for the victims...

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #37)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:29 AM

43. How would anyone know, though, is my point?

No one has much access to him because of the SAMs. He's also probably pretty medicated, so that would dull his empathy.

(Those SAMs are horrid, btw. I find them highly unConstitutional. This defendant might as well be in Gitmo).

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:42 AM

49. I suppose he has had Psychiatrists or others who could interview him...

 

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:06 AM

56. The jury will find out. nt

 

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:28 AM

42. Catch 22

 

Pleading "not guilty" is proof that one lacks remorse.

I hope not!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:41 AM

48. Exactly my point.

I'm literally scratching my head at that one.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:51 AM

65. And pleading the fifth means your guilty, too, right?

 

I mean if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide? Right?

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Response to gLibDem (Reply #65)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 02:58 AM

115. Sorry, I just saw this.

No, pleading the fifth does NOT mean you're guilty.

Damn, I wish we still taught civics in school. I know you "get it," by your question.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #115)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 03:20 AM

118. I like your screen name.

 

Civics died years ago. It went so quietly nobody noticed. We probably should have.

I'm ashamed of my generation. We let the country, and the world, got to hell in a hand basket.

What's a hand basket, anyway?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:45 PM

11. More angsty melodrama. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:51 PM

17. Wow ...

 

Manny is getting more and more entertaining by the day.

I just can't wait for him to take President Obama or Holder to task for saying "Good Morning"!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:52 PM

19. Apparently Derpitious Soul Sickness

 

is endemic on Boston-area Intertubes.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 03:40 AM

70. Ahhh Will Gave You A Sad

 

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #70)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 08:05 AM

74. Are you saying ...

 

Will and Manny are one in the same?

That explains a lot.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:07 AM

26. A real question

Do you

A) Support the death penalty
B) Support the death penalty in this particular instance
C) You're just showing support for Holder's decision because he works for Obama

This isn't a gotcha question, and I'm not trying to be combative in this case (I admit we clashed on another thread). I just would really like to understand your and geek tragedy's position because it's difficult to tell.

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:41 AM

47. Speaking for myself only, I generally oppose the death penalty but I adamantly

 

oppose the suggestion that public opinion polling should drive prosecutorial decisions.

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:55 AM

66. I don't support the death penalty.

 

I don't support the death penalty in this case.

I don't support Holder's position because he works for President Obama.

Any questions?

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 08:12 AM

75. None of the three ...

 

I do not support the death penalty ... not even in this case ... but it's not my call, regardless of whom is the President. And the penalty for a crime should never, ever be based on polling ... as a Black man, that knows history, I know that this country applied that particular sentencing scheme far to often.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:58 PM

23. Spinal Tap check.

Cue the "is this real life?" Kid.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:02 AM

24. Being against the death penalty is now "angsty"?

Ok...

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:08 AM

29. No, claiming that Eric Holder insulted

 

the city of Boston is though. People pounding nails through their own palms.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:03 PM

100. "People pounding nails through their own palms."

Oh the irony!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:11 AM

33. Can you ever, ever address the issues?

 

Or must it always be about the DUer?

Did someone train you to post that way?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:14 AM

36. This discussion isn't about the issue,

 

it's about spinning a rather predictable prosecutorial decision into "zomg Holder hates Boston so much he's gonna piss on the grass at Fenway."

As if Holder should consider opinion polls in Boston when making such decisions.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:32 AM

44. You are still focusing on the poster.

 

The issue is the propriety of seeking the death penalty at all, and specifically when the people who lived through the attack are against it.

The issue is also the feds using their jurisdiction to get death in a state that bans it.

Your last line is a good example of addressing the issue. The rest is the typical DUer-focused distraction.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:39 AM

46. The propriety has nothing to do with public opinion in Boston.

 

That is the entire point of the criminal justice system. If 90% of the local public were to favor the death penalty! would that make the decision any more proper?

Is Holder telling the local community to go fuck itself every time the DoJ goes against local opinion?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #46)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:51 AM

51. I appreciate you discussing the issue. Conversations are much more interesting this way.

 

No, his decision would not be more proper, but it would at least be in line with the affected community. I think anytime Holder recommends and seeks death in any state where the death penalty has been banned, he is saying fuck you to that state.

It has taken decades of activism to get death penalty statutes off the books. When a state has been successful and joined the civilized world, it is particularly abhorrent for the DOJ to step in and seek to kill.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #51)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:54 AM

53. He still has to use the Boston jury pool

 

I don't think federal law and policy should vary state to state.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:00 AM

54. The full jury pool will likely be against DP,

 

but prosecutors get to ask that question. When the juror says they are anti-DP, the prosecutor will use a challenge and get rid of the jury. The pool will be winnowed down to those who are not anti-DP.

You don't think federal law and policy should vary state to state? Do you think the feds should go after marijuana users/distributors in states where it is legalized/decriminalized or quit going after them in other states?

I think there are certain areas where states' decisions should influence federal policy.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #54)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:04 AM

55. Medical marijuana shouldn't be prosecuted anywhere.

 

The penalty for blowing up Bostonians shouldn't differ from blowing up Oklahomans under federal statutes.

I think allowing local political opinions to creep into prosecutorial decisions is Pandora's box. Should we not have federal hate crime prosecutions in states that refuse to enact hate crimes laws?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #55)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:10 AM

57. What about recreational marijuana?

 

This is all a little off point anyway. Controlled substances and hate crimes are statutory.

Seeking death is a discretionary decision by Holder. He didn't have to make it. It isn't required by statute. It wasn't required by statute for Tim McViegh either.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:14 AM

59. Prosecutors have vast discretion beyond

 

sentencing. As I said, we don't want federal prosecutors trying to win local popularity contests.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:49 PM

15. Since when do the victims of crime get a say in sentencing?

It's not Citizens of Boston v Tsarnev, or Bombing Victims v Tsarnev.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:59 AM

97. Happens a lot

 

Most times actually a prosecutor will respect the wishes of the victim's family when it comes to the death penalty. If the family is very much against the death penalty, the prosecutor will usually not pursue it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:57 PM

22. I bet you have no clue how it's decided.

No clue at all. It is not arbitrary. It is not a coin toss. It is not decided on people's feelings. You figure it out.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:04 AM

25. I know how it's decided and took issue with one point of it above.

I can take more issues with it, if you'd like.

The fact is that most Bostonians are against the death penalty.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:08 AM

27. Then yuo should print the formula.

Because that is how the Federal death penalty is done.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:16 AM

39. Could you do us a favor?

 

Please link to the statute that says the death penalty must be sought if x criteria are met.

That would be helpful.

Thanks.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:23 AM

40. Find it yourself.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:26 AM

41. I looked.

 

All I found was 18 U.S. CODE 3592 - MITIGATING AND AGGRAVATING FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED IN DETERMINING WHETHER A SENTENCE OF DEATH IS JUSTIFIED, which lists factors to consider, but I don't see a formula that determines whether or not killing should proceed.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:36 AM

45. It doesn't exist. It is very much decided on emotion.

 

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:03 AM

85. Got that? It doesn't exist.

 

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:45 AM

50. Here is how it works:

 

18 U.S.C.A. 3593
3593. Special hearing to determine whether a sentence of death is justified
Currentness
(a) Notice by the government.--If, in a case involving an offense described in section 3591, the attorney for the government believes that the circumstances of the offense are such that a sentence of death is justified under this chapter, the attorney shall, a reasonable time before the trial or before acceptance by the court of a plea of guilty, sign and file with the court, and serve on the defendant, a notice--
(1) stating that the government believes that the circumstances of the offense are such that, if the defendant is convicted, a sentence of death is justified under this chapter and that the government will seek the sentence of death; and
(2) setting forth the aggravating factor or factors that the government, if the defendant is convicted, proposes to prove as justifying a sentence of death.
The factors for which notice is provided under this subsection may include factors concerning the effect of the offense on the victim and the victim's family, and may include oral testimony, a victim impact statement that identifies the victim of the offense and the extent and scope of the injury and loss suffered by the victim and the victim's family, and any other relevant information. The court may permit the attorney for the government to amend the notice upon a showing of good cause.


Then it goes to the aggravating factors. It is purely discretionary whether Holder believes seeking the death penalty it justified. There is no crime that carries a mandatory minimum of death. Holder chose to seek death. He did not have to.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:08 AM

28. They will make him a martyr.




And then others will be lining up to follow in the two bombers' footsteps.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:10 AM

30. I read an article earlier today

that said the DP has a long way to go to be applied in this case. Apparently a lot of lawyers have stepped up to defend the kid. I think they'd be hard pressed to find a jury in the city (or much of the rest of the state) that would vote for the DP.

It's a civilized city, albeit a tough one, and a lot of people probably see what I saw, a drifting kid whose only family was a nutcase elder brother bent on suicidal glory. Take the brother out of his life, he'd probably still be hanging around on Somerville street corners, doing some small time dope sales.

They'd have to figure out how to move the trial venue to Florida or Texas to be sure of getting the DP verdict they want.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:53 AM

52. I'm usually against capital punishment....

Not because I think it should be abolished, rather because I feel it is used far too often and should be reserved for the most heinous crimes. I feel that this young terrorist fits the bill for capital punishment!
I must add a disclaimer at this point, I'm originally from Boston and had many friends and relatives within a short distance of the explosions, so maybe I'm not the most impartial person to make that decision.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:21 AM

60. So is my husband.

But he A.) thinks this investigation was rushed into judgment and B.) hates the death penalty despite the fact he had family at the Marathon that day.

Two young people were tortured over days and killed by several teens/young adults in my own city and I wouldn't have wanted to serve on a DP jury for their trials, even though one of the victims grew up a hop, skip and a jump from me.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:01 AM

83. you ar not against capital punishment. period. at all. so don't claim it.

 

look, you support capital punishment under certain circumstances, just like all the other people who support it.

I don't support it ever. ever. fucking ever. it disgusts the hell out of me to give the state that power.

you want to support the practice of state sponsored killing? Fine, but don't claim you're anti-dp.

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Response to cali (Reply #83)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:43 AM

89. No not, "JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE", that's your exageration.

Do you somehow think you are my moral superior because you "don't support it ever. ever. fucking ever.".
I can tell you one thing, your rude way of discussing the issue surely is not convincing me to look at it from a different point of view.
So let me get this straight, you are not necessarily against ending someone's life, you just don't want the government to have the decision making authority?

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #89)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:47 AM

90. no, it's not an exaggeration. Everyone who supports the DP has their criteria for it- just

 

like you do.

And no, I'm completely against killing. that's WHY I oppose the dp- and a hundred other subsidiary reasons.

I don't think I'm your "moral superior". I don't know you. And it sure as hell is your right to believe what you wish- just as it's mine.

I believe that the dp is barbaric and wrong on multiple levels, from the practical to the philosophical.

And honestly, one poster on DU shouldn't make you did in. think for yourself.

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Response to cali (Reply #90)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:17 AM

91. "And honestly, one poster on DU shouldn't make you did in" what is that supposed to mean?

Your first post said that your position against DP was your disgust for giving that kind of power to the government.
This is exactly the problem with atempting to have intelligent discussion of an issue, too many people want to make every issue into "all or nothing" issues, black or white with no grey in between, no nuance, no area for discussion. The extremes on both sides say you have to be completely against the death penalty, or, completely for the death penalty. They say you have to be completely for abortion in all cases, or, completely against it in all cases. They say you have to be completely for gun control, or, completely against it. They say you have to be completely for market regulations, or, completely against it. They say you have to be completely in agreement with all of America's wars, or, completely against them.

This in a nut shell, is exactly what is wrong with political discourse, not only between republicans and Liberals, but also here on DU between Liberals and Liberals. The premise seems to be, if you don't agree with me on every aspect of every detail then your point of view is worthless.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #91)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:42 AM

92. it's a typo- did should have been "dig"- as in dig in.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:30 AM

61. I think that authoritarians love the death penalty. It's all about retribution. Nancy Grace will

 

tell you.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:46 AM

62. Or maybe Holder supports the death penalty.

 

Sometimes the Administration does what it actually believes in.

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Response to gLibDem (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:47 PM

110. Holder opposes the death penalty.


As recently as last week, Holder emphasized that his opposition to the death penalty is due in part to practical concerns what he sees as failures in the legal system.

"The problem is that in too many places, lawyers who are defending poor people don't have adequate resources to do a good job," Holder said in an appearance at the University of Virginia last Thursday. "You end up with these miscarriages of justice."

"It's really one of the reasons why I am personally opposed to the death penalty," Holder added. "As good as our system is, it's ultimately a system that is filled with men and women who are well intentioned but who make mistakes. And as horrible as it is for somebody to be put in jail for crimes that they did not commit, it is obviously not as bad as a situation where somebody is executed for a crime that he or she did not commit."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/30/death-penalty-boston-bombing_n_4694296.html

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Response to former9thward (Reply #110)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 04:38 PM

114. Apparently not as he is seeking the death penalty.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:50 AM

64. I abhor the death penalty.

 

But sentences are not decided by polling the communities in which heinous crimes are committed.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 02:29 AM

67. Don't you know the goal of the first black AG is to prove he can be as good as a white Republican?

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #67)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 08:21 AM

79. What does that mean?

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #79)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:50 AM

94. There is a long time meme that it's easier to slip in the conservative agenda under Dems.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #94)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:21 PM

108. Ok

So what does that have to do with being the "first black AG?"



Never heard of this particular meme, myself.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #108)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:40 PM

109. Really? It's just like the OTHER meme out there applies to Obama too....

 

It goes something like this: In order to avoid right-wing accusations that they are showing >>gasp<< "LIBERAL" tendencies they have to crack down harder than any Republican would on laws pushed by Republicans that regulate morality amongst the poor like gambling and drugs.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #109)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 02:41 PM

111. Again...

So what does that have to do with being the "first black AG?"

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 03:06 PM

113. He has to be a badass or Republicans will attack him....

 

As if they aren't already.

They wrote up "Articles of Impeachment" for his refusal to make their fake "scandals" official.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #67)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 09:57 AM

82. Oh, is that why he called for federal oversight of stop-and-frisk in NY?

Asinine.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #82)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:55 AM

95. Look how Republicans are STILL railing about "Fast and Furious"....

 

THAT is "asinine".

ESPECIALLY since it was exposed as yet another made up non-scandal.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 03:11 AM

69. We are murdering Mr. Tzarhnaev

I don't care what he did before, but the death penalty is nothing more than an additional death that we must all bear responsibility before. I pray that one day we have a justice system that enforces the mercy that most of us believes in. Life in prison, not murder, is the correct sentence for the accused man's crimes.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 04:32 AM

71. I oppose the death penalty, and I insist on a fair trial

 

following the Constitution's protections as outlined in amendments IV - VIII.

On a wholly different subject, I think if I had been in Boston and seen who did that crime, I would have made like Gregory Peck when confronting a rabid dog in a dusty street.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 07:39 AM

73. I was pretty sure this would be the decision. Cowardly as far as I am concerned. The

citizens of MA are against the DP - no respect.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 08:16 AM

76. Pretty much expected though, politically.

If he didn't put in for the death penalty, the rest of the country and republicans would look at him like he's weak on terror.

Yeah, I know.

As a MA resident myself all my life, I still find myself going back to the concept that the death penalty is appropriate for those that go outside the bounds of what society should be. But that's a classical view that I don't quite hold the same way as I did in my youth.

I do find myself largely aligned with most (but not all) of my fellow locals in that they don't want the death penalty, or at least aren't seeking it. It's been curious watching which local friends on Facebook are pleased by it, their connection to the event and their own leanings.

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #76)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 03:04 AM

116. Thank you.

I'm the Tennessee wife of a Massachusetts husband and we both knew this would happen while both knowing it shouldn't.

I, for one, would like to know his side of the story before we go storming off on his guilt. The SAMs has restricted him from telling it.

However, if he IS guilty, why kill him? Killing someone to show that killing is wrong is what? Hypocritical.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 08:16 AM

77. .

 


[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:03 AM

84. Just because the DP is on the table doesn't mean it's going to happen

A DP sentence has to be unanimous. That might be hard to achieve in Massachusetts, which has no DP. I'm going to trust a jury on this one.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:07 AM

86. He can plea deal for life w/o parole in prison


If it started off as life in prison, then he could plea deal to life with parole.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #86)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:04 PM

101. Not necessarily. That may not be on the table.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #101)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:09 PM

104. Maybe not.



But I bet it is with full disclosure.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #86)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 03:06 AM

117. What if he's not guilty?

Does he take his chances or just melt because the LE and media says he is?

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #117)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 03:34 AM

119. there is the theory that Holder favored the DP only to silence him

 


with a plea deal - shut up, forego your right to get a trial, and you can keep your life.


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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #117)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 08:01 AM

121. Then he can defend himself at trial.


He's got choices.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 10:30 AM

88. You Better Believe It!!! nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #88)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 02:43 PM

112. *snort*

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #88)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 10:50 AM

127. Exactly. n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:58 AM

96. I imagine it would be a rather bizarre country that predicates its judicial sentencing on polling da

I imagine it would be a rather bizarre country that predicates its judicial sentencing on polling data...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:00 PM

98. Yeah, but people on the internet who don't live here want him killed

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:00 PM

99. To be honest, I think Carmen Ortiz is the driving force behind this. Not shocking

at all, considering the zeal with which she went after Aaron Swartz.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:20 PM

106. The attack occured in Boston, but it was not an attack on Boston.

This is true in the same way that the same was true on 9/11/01. The attack occurred at the World Trade Center in NY, and the Pentagon, but it was an attack on the United States, in total. In fact, an earlier version of the 9/11 plan included suicide plane attacks in other cities as well.

The Boston Bombers also planned to attack outside Boston. They also planned to attack Times Square.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/25/us/boston-attack/

The Boston Bombers were not trying to settle a score with the city of Boston, or the state of Massachusetts.

They were carrying out attacks on the United States. The marathon in Boston was convenient. They were not specifically targeting the citizens of Boston, they were targeting Americans who would be participating in the marathon.

Now, I'd rather see this guy spend the rest of his life in prison. But screaming about how Holder said FU to the city of Boston because he's not using polling data from Boston to make this decision is ridiculous.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:42 PM

107. It's not something that goes up for a vote...

 

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Response to Lost_Count (Reply #107)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 08:04 AM

122. But, it is something that is up to the descretion of the AG.

 

He chose this. He chose barbarism rather than civility.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #122)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 10:21 AM

123. In your opinion...

 

Discretion allows him to choose the view that to not remove this guy from the gene pool is barbarous and a form of injustice.

It's a pretty easy rule to follow... Take other people's lives in a malicious manner with forethought and planning and your own life is forfeit. There's no coming back from that and there shouldn't be. There is no "making it better" or reform that can equal the lives and limbs lost.

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Response to Lost_Count (Reply #123)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 10:26 AM

125. My opinion shared by the majority of nations in the world

 

and an increasing number of the states. My opinion shared by the civilized world. My opinion to which all courts in the United States will eventually come to agree with.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #125)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 10:28 AM

126. Oh...

 

So majority rule is the standard for what's right now?

How interesting... Do go on...

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Response to Lost_Count (Reply #126)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 11:04 AM

128. LOL.

 

You are grasping at straws now. And your return here will be short lived.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #128)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 11:14 AM

130. It's just a very convenient standard...

 

One, I'm confident, would be discarded the moment that 51% of the populace disagrees with you.

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Response to Lost_Count (Reply #130)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 12:54 PM

131. Although you aren't here in good faith, I'll respond with this:

 

Move along when the crowd is right, stand alone when the crowd is wrong.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 03:51 AM

120. Federal Court, federal law applies

It always has.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Feb 5, 2014, 11:06 AM

129. ...and you hate holder too!?!... lol... ok Would this be a post if it was about gay marriage and

... what the public in an area wanted?!?!?!

Come on manny, just be yourself k?

tia

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