watching Joe Scar saying fed prosecutors can't "prove" anything on McDonnell...

[CTyankee]

I kept thinking "who believes that the CEO of Star Scientific was giving McDonnell all that stuff just to be a nice guy?" Does Scar really think that this looks at all good for this "rising star in the Republican Party"?

Some panelists on MJ today were a little aghast. Even Chuck Todd started sputtering at Joe's characterization of barely "legal" shenanigans as being somehow "okay."

Scar was really scraping the bottom of the barrel of any rationalized defense of McDonnell. Poor Scar. All his "rising stars" destined for presidential glory in 2016 are flaming out...

BTW, Joe looked HORRIBLE on today's show. His nose was red and his face looked splotchy. He looked like he had had a rough night...

Edit to add: And these Republicans wonder why they can't win the popular vote in a presidential election?

[monmouth3]

1. Paraphrasing: The Feds must not have much to do to go into Virginia and declare McDonnell

a crook. Leave it up to the State of Virginia where the rules allow you to break them....

[CTyankee]

2. YES! When I heard him say that I said "WTF?"

And again I say "And republicans wonder WHY they can't win presidential elections?"

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. But did you see Chuck Todd's facial expression ...

and labored attempt to respond to that lunacy?

The look on his face was like, WTF? And when he opened his mouth, that's what I thought he was going to say.

It was priceless.

[CTyankee]

39. He just couldn't believe Joe was advancing such bullshit...as if Joe finally outdid himself in the

"outrageous" dept. It's amazing how those panelists just sit there and "take" it. And Joe just blathers away...

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. with Mika ...

nodding and making faces in the side ground.

[CTyankee]

47. I loved it when her dad, Dr. Zbig, called Joe "stunningly superficial" right on the air...

What a great moment that was! Joe was just stunned that a guest on his show would "abuse" him so mo skillfully right on the air like that. It was a beautiful thing to behold!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

49. Sorry I missed that. Joe is such a smug bastard with nothing to be the

least bit smug about, I'm surprised it doesn't happen to him every day.

[CTyankee]

50. you could probably Google it. I'll bet you get the clip...

it might be worth the effort just to see his response...and the cat-eating-canary look on Zbig's face...

[Swede Atlanta]

3. Based on what I know about the facts ........

There is no question that the Governor and his greedy wife accepted all manner of gifts from their wealthy benefactor.

But it may be necessary to show that the benefactor actually benefitted materially (i.e. there was a quid pro quo) from the gifts in order to get a conviction. It appears the gifts likely led to the benefactor having access to decision makers in the state health department and others such as arranging meetings, inclusion in meetings, etc.

But there is no evidence of which I am aware that this resulted in the benefactor actually getting contracts, etc. If so then I have missed something as I have followed this case.

If the law requires the benefactor actually get something in exchange for his gifts what level of "something" or "benefit" must there be. Is access sufficient or would it have to beyond that where a law was enacted in exchange, contracts were let, etc.? I don't know.

[FSogol]

5. Williams got unprecedented access to the Governor. He got McDonnell (& wife) & Cuccinelli lobbying

on his behalf.

The Feds' case (despite the RW talking points of McDonnell's innocence) will be easy. Do I expect McDonnell to spend heavy jail time? No, he'll plea down to 36 month sentence and huge fines.

[CTyankee]

6. Yes, I believe you are right, but that is kinda beside the point...

because for a presidential aspirant, such as McDonnell, accepting these gifts looks just terrible in the minds of voters. It doesn't matter that they can't prove McDonnell offered anything or did anything in return. The question is simply he looks like a politician "on the take" from a wealthy donor. There is always a quid pro quo SOMEWHERE down the line eventually...and the voters know it.

[66 dmhlt]

17. Feds don't have to show Williams benefited - only that help was promised

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/experts-mcdonnell-corruption-difficult-to-prove-in-court/2014/01/22/fdf222a0-837f-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html?hpid=z1

[Swede Atlanta]

25. And how do you define "help"?

Is simply arranging a meeting where the benefactor could present their product(s) to potential decision makers "help"? Is help based on exclusionary practices? This is where "help" or "benefit" are very much in the eye of the beholder unless the law is very, very specific. It would be up to a jury to decide if what the Governor did was "help".

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. That is what Joe is arguing ...

Quid; but, no quo.

I don't think that defense will gain much traction with a jury, as jurors bring their real life experiences to the box.

The question is not/will not be whether the business owner got a contract or government business (or even anything tangible) in exchange for his "gifts"; but rather, whether the business owner got "something of value", in exchange for his "gifts."

It will not be difficult to get a jury to understand that a product launch in the Governor's mansion has value (it's essentially an endorsement) ... a business owner being seen with a popular Governor has value (again, it's a social endorsement of the business owner) ... the business owner sitting with the Virginia Health Officials, at the Governor's behest, is of value ("enhanced access" is of value).

[Swede Atlanta]

28. Remember the OJ murder Jury.......

Juries can be fickle.......

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. No ...

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2014, 12:55 PM - Edit history (1)

that jury supports my theory (experience). The OJ jury consisted of 8 blacks and 2 Hispanics. These jurors brought their real life distrust of law enforcement ... a distrust that was confirmed when Furman was demonstrated a liar ... into the jury box with them, and they decided accordingly.

I think it a crazy risk to pin one's hopes and freedom on the belief that you can convince a jury that a wealthy business man would contribute (politically) and gift (personally) a couple a $100,000 and not expect something of value in return ... that just goes against the average persons' life experience.

[CTyankee]

36. Of course! People know that business owners don't do such favors for a politician without expecting

something. That's why it's so stupid to carry on the way Scar was about how "technically" he won't be convicted of any crime. The court of public opinion will render a different verdict.

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. I think Joe ...

is attempting to give "smart" partisans that might be impanelled a "technical" way out ... by re-defining what quid pro quo actually means.

[CTyankee]

43. politically, it won't matter. McDonnell, like Christie, is done for.

Their political aspirations for a presidential run are over, finished. All I wonder is "who's next?" and "will there be anyone left by 2016?

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. Yep ...

Cruz
Rubio
Huckabee
and, $I$ter $arah.

[CTyankee]

41. Of course! That was my essential point...

what is funny is Joe's furious attempt to cover up for McDonnell. Doesn't he know how ridiculous he looks?

[underpants]

34. WaPo article from yesterday- have to prove quid pro quo

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/experts-mcdonnell-corruption-difficult-to-prove-in-court/2014/01/22/fdf222a0-837f-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html

Not material benefit for Williams.
Williams is THE pivot point and he is testifying for the Feds because he got caught insider trading. The defense will say that he is unreliable due to getting caught, basically tainting his testimony.

The falsifying bank documents (not reporting the loans) should be easy to prove.

[warrior1]

4. he would be singing a different tune

if it was a democrat.

[CTyankee]

8. Exactly.

[geek tragedy]

7. "Well, I had a dead intern in my office and I skated." nt

[CTyankee]

9. One of these days, Joe, POW, right in the kisser!

[brewens]

10. Probably drinking himself to sleep trying to forget about her. n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

11. He is doing us all a favor. Finally, we get to hear how they actually think.

Not a moral bone in their bodies.

[Arkana]

12. That's because McDonnell is now Joey Scar's "guy", what with Christie being disgraced.

[CTyankee]

38. Joe is fast running out of "guys." They keep self destructing...

[Barack_America]

13. Trouble at he and Mika's NYC love nest?

[CTyankee]

15. I dunno. He just looked really rough today.

I'd like to think it's because he's seeing the repuke party sink like a stone...

[AlbertCat]

32. I'd like to think it's because he's seeing the repuke party sink like a stone...

I think he just came in too late for makeup....

[mgardener]

14. Didn't see Joe....

can't stand the show.

I did read the indictment, however. What I thought was 1. "This guy was doing all this and he was the former AG of the state? How is he going to say he didn't know it was wrong?"
2. And there was a great paper trail. And it shows how they tried to hide it all.

[CTyankee]

16. repukes look rotten to the core...

[olegramps]

21. Repuks ARE rotten to the core...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

22. repukes ARE rotten to the core and they need to be ran out of OUR country, by force is necessary. nt

[heaven05]

19. having fell asleep watching O'donnell

I woke up pretty early and joe scumbourough and his companion were on and I listened for the first time. Man this guy is scum, I've read here, countless times, about what a joke he and companion were/are. I was amazed that he was trying to defend the crooks in Virginia. Some of the rationalizations he had, especially, "the not really illegal what the Virginia crooks did" just had me shaking my head. I soon turned the station. Everything said about this program's inability to tell the truth about important matters shows me how far television news has fallen. Don't get me wrong, with Faux News on the air the bar, with me, was already set pretty low. No daylight between the bar and the ground. This show has the bar in the dirt.

[Octafish]

20. Gee. The gift Rolex is stamped '71st Governor of Virginia' on the back.

That should prove something, Joe.

[hrmjustin]

23. Joe needs to be fired! He is useless and boring.

[marble falls]

24. Maybe Scar has a body stashed in his office closet regarding some of his own schenanigans?

[Thinkingabout]

27. Since the amount of gifts and money given it is over the limit allowed as a "gift" in a years

time frame, has either party reported this information to IRS. If not, then there is something to be proven on both parties.

[rurallib]

29. smells like a bribe, looks like a bribe, blings and inscribed like a bribe

it's a gift of friendship.

[packman]

31. Joe is pretty good in covering up things

I think he's just projecting what he'd do if in the same situation. Here's an example-

http://patdollard.com/2013/01/did-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-murder-young-intern-he-was-having-an-extramarital-affair-with/

There's many a folk down here in the panhandle of Florida who deeply feel that Joe got a pass from this incident- which , when it got some legs under it, caused him to want to "spend more time with his family". The coroner was a long time family friend, the politicos were in the Scarborough pocket, and the local press was (and still is) a conservative rag as is the local media.

[4dsc]

33. i had a good laugh at Joe's expense

it was funny to watch the meltdown.

[Botany]

35. Well we can't prove that Joe S. murdered Lori Klausutis but ...

.... she wound up dead on his office floor with her head split open.

[beachbum bob]

37. lying to a federal official doing their

Job is a felony and doesn't take much to prove. ...funny how Joe and mika go to great extents to blow smoke. Almost fox news lite now

[nyquil_man]

42. I'm surprised people watch that show.

I guess I just don't have that much intestinal fortitude.

[CTyankee]

44. Oh, I wouldn't have missed the show today for anything!

I was laughing out loud!

[KamaAina]

48. They couldn't prove anything on the dead intern, either

that doesn't mean she's alive.