Seems to me that the president is a Paulite

[Doctor_J]

Some of us are continually bashed for believing that the NSA should be controlled and that wars should not go on forever (Paulite! Libertarian!).

Meanwhile, Obama agrees with Rand Paul on weakening environmental protections, destroying labor unions, profitizing schools, corporate entitlement to billions of health care dollars, privatizing social security, "free" trade, tax cuts for the hyper-rich, cuts to infrastructure spending, and cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

So who's really the Paulite?

[1000words]

1. *sniff*

[Doctor_J]

2. Right? Time to get to the bottom of this bullshit before the midterms

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. Well ...

that's certainly a different take on President Obama. Each and every point you cite is false... President Obama doesn't support weakening any of the stuff you claim.

[Luminous Animal]

7. Really. Let's start with one. Charter schools. Does the Admin support them.

Charter schools have been a (l)Libertarian cause for at least 40 years.

[Doctor_J]

9. TPP (a "priority" for the president, in his own words)

KeystoneXL. Raising the SS eligibility age and adopting the chained CPI. And so on.

1SBM's post is I think meant to be some sort of joke.

[JaneyVee]

11. Lets start with civil rights & safety nets, do Paulites support them?

[joshcryer]

22. Yes, to an insignificant extent. Next?

Do Libertarians support public schools to even an insignificant extent?

[Luminous Animal]

24. So, they do support libertarian values! Nice! And they are throwing millions of $$$ at them.

And I don't give a flying fuck what libertarians do. I give a flying fuck that my DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT AND APPOINTEE DUNCAN DO. Both promote a libertarian education agenda.

[joshcryer]

27. Um, Obama campaigned on charter schools.

In fact, his support for charter schools has fallen flat against the promises he made.

If Libertarians agree that clean drinking water is a good thing, and we agree but we believe that instituting a good EPA is a good thing, that doesn't mean that Libertarians "support our values." They would say that we should get rid of the EPA completely and let the markets and lawyers make sure that our water is clean.

Likewise, when it comes to charter schools, Libertarians wouldn't say "we should support charter schools that deliver better grades," (this is Obama's argument) but instead Libertarians would say "we should abolish the entire Department of Education, allow communities to set up charter schools, and ban public taxation for publicly run schools."

Now you see how those values are not the same fucking thing at all!

It sucks but you're using creationist style / climate change denialist style argumentation. If you don't care about what Libertarians do (or would do), you have no basis with which to make the statement that Obama supports their values. Because it is absolutely critical that you understand what Libertarians would do so that their values can be determined. Just like a creationist not caring about what scientists have to say about evolution or denialists disbelieving the data that concerns climate science. It's the same damn argumentation style.

[pnwmom]

40. Do you realize that there are at least two different kinds of charter schools?

Some are for-profit chains, and I've never seen anything showing that the Administration supports them.

But other charter schools are approved by the state, have to meet the standards of a state, get the regular allotment of state funds, have to take children without regard to test scores, and are non-profit. These other schools are often set up by a group of parents who want some flexibility in the program. I don't see what's wrong with this type of charter school.

[joshcryer]

42. How about that. The administration wants to put restrictions on for-profit.

Huh, who would've thunk it, not only is that a bullshit talking point, it too is untrue.

Many Democratic policymakers, including those in Obama administration, have supported "gainful employment" regulations and competitive grant restrictions rooted in concerns about the motives and behavior of for-profit operators.

http://www.aei.org/events/2012/11/26/for-profits-and-federal-education-policy/

Turns out that the majority of charter schools are non-profit, comprising almost 70% of all charter schools.

Where is this talking point coming from? I was misled until you instructed me that they can be non-profit. I thought they were all for-profit. I know that Obama came out in favor of them before he was even elected, but I did not know that it would benefit non-profits more than profits.

It's so easy to be pulled into dishonest talking points that seem plausible.

[pnwmom]

43. Nationally, only 13% of charter schools are for-profit. I didn't realize there were so few.

The for-profits seem to get all the publicity.

But a total of 87 percent are non-profits, either single site schools (67%) or multiple-site (20%).

http://www.publiccharters.org/About-Charter-Schools/Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx

Are Charter Schools For-Profit?

Charter schools choose their own management structure: 67 percent of all charter schools are independently run non-profit, single site schools; 20 percent are run by non-profit organizations that run more than one charter school; and just under 13 percent are run by for-profit companies. For-profit charter schools have to meet financial oversight regulations, just like any company the government contracts with to provide a service.

[anti partisan]

5. Obama's "Promise Zones" do share a lot in common with Rand's "Freedom Zones" (nt)

[JaneyVee]

8. If by "a lot" you mean absolutely nothing, then yes.

[anti partisan]

10. But but... Rand Paul says so!

And it's on Newsmax, a very trusted source. link

[JaneyVee]

14. Nope, not even close.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/01/08/fact-sheet-president-obama-s-promise-zones-initiative

[anti partisan]

15. Sry, it was my poor attempt at sarcasm (nt)

[JaneyVee]

6. Hilarious. Is that why Rand Paul disagrees with Obama on EVERYTHING?

[anti partisan]

12. It's more of a matter of degree (center-right vs far-right) (nt)

[JaneyVee]

16. So then not really a Paulite then?

[anti partisan]

18. The OP doesn't believe he's really a Paulite and neither do I

But he was making a point that Obama does take some positions that are right of center, at least from the viewpoint of a progressive.

I do think there's some truth to that.

[joshcryer]

23. So you're saying the OP is making stuff up?

And is creating a false equivalence straw man?

I don't think there's any truth to the idea that Obama's positions on the vast majority of things is anything resembling that of Libertarians / Paulites.

[anti partisan]

26. Nah he's not making stuff up

Just a healthy dose of hyperbole to stir things up. Can't say I object.

The two main points seem to be:
1. We progressives who defend civil liberties shouldn't be categorized as Paulites for sticking up for civil liberties.
2. Obama resembles Paul much more than we progressives resemble Paul on most other issues. So if you're going to call us Paulites, then Obama is more of a Paulite than us.

I agree.

[joshcryer]

28. We get this BS hyperbole daily, hourly.

I frankly am tired of it. Can't we have a good political discussion as opposed to these pointless fights?

I will categorize anyone as a Paulite who advocates a Paulite position. That position is not easily discerned therefore I will not use that designation lightly.

Obama does not resemble Paul "much more than we progressives resemble Paul" because progressives don't have anything in common with Paul, those who act like they do are in fact not progressive or are massively ignorant of how Paul's positions are not progressive.

Just because you say you're anti-war does not mean you have any commonality with Ron Paul when he says he's "anti-war." You have to look at the underlying backing for such a statement. The Libertarians have become very good at choosing words and concepts which literally are the opposite of what they mean. Their very term, Libertarian, was co-opted from socialists, for crying out loud. Yet they're ardent capitalists. The non-aggression principle? It is quite literally the most aggressive principle in the universe (that is, it is quite literally a wild-west every man for themself principle, which makes it aggressive).

[anti partisan]

29. We don't act like we have anything in common, which is kind of the point

Obamabot trolls act like we are libertarians because we are anti-war, anti-drone campaigns, anti-War on Drugs, and anti-domestic spying. When in fact, those are positions that most progressives and socialists hold.

So if they're going to shoot those accusations at us, we can play their game against Obama, which I will admit is counter-productive and pointless, but sometimes hypocrisy needs to be exposed.

I think it's safe to say that nobody posting here (save a few trolls) is actually a Paulite, nor do we want to be recognized as such.

[joshcryer]

30. If you feel like you're being accused of that, sorry.

You shouldn't if those are actual positions you hold.

However if you identify with Paul because he's anti-domestic spying, but you also misidentify with Paul because he's pro-corporate dataming, you should not consider those comments insults nor anything that applies to you.

If you instead consider that an insult, and then go on to defend Paul's anti-domestic spying commentary, you should also admonish Paul for his pro-corporate data mining position (which is held despite not being publicly stated; anything that would stop corporate data mining would violate the "non-aggression principle&quot . If you don't do this, every single time, you are boxing Paul's corrupt views in with yourself, and people might actually identify you as a Paulite.

I think there are probably not many Paulites here, however, I do think that the Paulites are using their propaganda to control the narrative here. And it's because of the hyperbole and back and forth spats that it gets fueled. It's tiresome.

[Demo_Chris]

13. Oh no you didn't!

200 replies EASY!

[1000words]

17. Mines a little salty ...

beverage?

[Doctor_J]

51. Nah, it will flame out and die quickly, as it should.

The name calling here and liberal-bashing are getting really tiresome, especially since we're going to be blamed for the November ass-kicking that's coming. No one at DU would choose Paul, or any other Repuke, over Obama. No one at DU would vote for Paul or any other Repuke, ever. And I for one am tired of getting told that I would.

[ProSense]

19. I'm going to

"Meanwhile, Obama agrees with Rand Paul on weakening environmental protections, destroying labor unions, profitizing schools, corporate entitlement to billions of health care dollars, privatizing social security, "free" trade, tax cuts for the hyper-rich, cuts to infrastructure spending, and cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

So who's really the Paulite?"

...give you the benefit of the doubt that you really don't know the difference between Rand Paul and President Obama

Rand Paul:

Health care like slavery

To eliminates the deficit in five years, the senator would abolish the Departments of Education, Energy, Commerce, and Housing and Urban Development, while privatizing the Transportation Security Authority. Paul would also slash taxes on the rich by establishing a 17% flat tax and eliminating capital gains taxes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022563868

Paul: jobless aid ‘weakens’ U.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024232195

‘That’s what gave us Jim Crow’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024349102

McConnell, Rand Paul To Join Industry Rally Against EPA's New Coal Rules
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mcconnell-rand-paul-to-join-industry-rally-against-epa-s-new-coal-rules


President Obama:

Why It Matters That Home Care Workers Just Got New Labor Rights
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023684107

There is no question that Dodd-Frank was a strong bill—the strongest in three generations.
http://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/AFR%20Roosevelt%20Institute%20Speech%202013-11-12.pdf

Obama weighing executive action on minimum wage?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024354098

President Obama repeats call to end subsidies for Big Oil
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002436787

Lisa Jackson to Leave EPA: Earthjustice Statement

Statement from Earthjustice Vice President of Litigation Patti Goldman:

“America owes Lisa Jackson a debt of gratitude for her work to protect the public's health from polluters and their allies in Congress. For her efforts to clean up pollution and better protect the environment and public health, she faced a steady barrage from members of Congress and the industrial polluters who back them. Her detractors are the same people who told us taking lead out of gasoline in the 1970's would break the economy and that taking acid out of acid rain in the 1990's would ruin the country. In both cases, the environment and economy were strengthened and this is the approach Lisa Jackson took. There is a lot of unfinished business started by Jackson that the next EPA director will need to attend to. Whoever it is, they'll need the support of the President and they'll need to be ready for a non-stop barrage of attacks from the chemical, industrial and fossil fuel industries and their allies in Congress.

“After 17 years of Earthjustice litigation it was Lisa Jackson who finally regulated mercury and other toxic pollutants coming from power plants. After a decade of litigation from Earthjustice and others, it was Lisa Jackson who supported and implemented regulations aimed at curbing greenhouse gases. After more than a decade of Earthjustice litigation it was Lisa Jackson who finally implemented the first regulation of mercury from cement kilns all over the country.”

http://earthjustice.org/news/press/2012/lisa-jackson-to-leave-epa-earthjustice-statement

The first lawsuit against Obama’s new coal limits just got filed
http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-first-lawsuit-against-obamas-new-coal-limits-just-got-filed/

WTO Upholds Obama’s Tire Industry Relief Decision

The World Trade Organization’s (WTO’s) Appellate Body yesterday upheld President Obama’s decision based on U.S. trade law to provide relief for American tire industry workers against surging imports from China of passenger and light truck tires.

In September 2009, Obama became the first president to enforce U.S. trade law when he imposed tariffs to protect domestic workers against a surge in tire imports from China. The original complaint came from the United Steelworkers (USW), and Obama’s decision led to a rebound in the tire industry.

http://blog.aflcio.org/2011/09/06/wto-upholds-obamas-tire-industry-relief-decision/

MEDICARE’S FINANCIAL CONDITION

Medicare’s financial condition is measured in several ways, including the solvency of the Part A Trust Fund, the annual growth in spending, and growth in spending on a per capita basis. Average annual growth in total Medicare spending is projected to be 6.6% between 2010 and 2019, but 3.5% on a per capita basis (assuming no reduction in physician fees).

The Part A Trust Fund is projected to be depleted in 2024— eight years longer than in the absence of the health reform law—at which point Medicare would not have sufficient funds to pay full benefits, even though revenue flows into the Trust Fund each year. Part A Trust Fund solvency is affected by growth in the economy, which directly affects revenue from payroll tax contributions, and by demographic trends: an increasing number of beneficiaries, especially between 2010 and 2030 when the baby boom generation reaches Medicare eligibility age, and a declining ratio of workers per beneficiary making payroll contributions (Figure 4).

http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/7305-06.pdf

The ACA increased the Medicaid rebate percentage.
http://www.medicaid.gov/AffordableCareAct/Timeline/Timeline.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024309532#post2

Net Investment Income Tax

A new Net Investment Income Tax goes into effect starting in 2013. The 3.8 percent Net Investment Income Tax applies to individuals, estates and trusts that have certain investment income above certain threshold amounts. The IRS and the Treasury Department have issued proposed regulations on the Net Investment Income Tax. Comments may be submitted electronically, by mail or hand delivered to the IRS. For additional information on the Net Investment Income Tax, see our questions and answers.

Additional Medicare Tax

A new Additional Medicare Tax goes into effect starting in 2013. The 0.9 percent Additional Medicare Tax applies to an individual’s wages, Railroad Retirement Tax Act compensation, and self-employment income that exceeds a threshold amount based on the individual’s filing status. The threshold amounts are $250,000 for married taxpayers who file jointly, $125,000 for married taxpayers who file separately, and $200,000 for all other taxpayers. An employer is responsible for withholding the Additional Medicare Tax from wages or compensation it pays to an employee in excess of $200,000 in a calendar year. The IRS and the Department of the Treasury have issued proposed regulations on the Additional Medicare Tax. Comments may be submitted electronically, by mail or hand delivered to the IRS. For additional information on the Additional Medicare Tax, see our questions and answers.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Affordable-Care-Act-Tax-Provisions

Hope that helps.

[joshcryer]

21. You're doing it wrong. So wrong.

First you challenge them and see if they bite, then you throw them blue links. And then you don't quote the blue links, you just put it in your wording as you debate. Then they wind up looking like the liars that they are when they make up completely false shit about the President. They're forced to actually read the links and you don't go out of your way to help them.

Watch:

The President gives the EPA powers to regulate CO2 and call it a "dangerous pollutant," which btw was denied as a pollutant forever, and is called bad on the environment. Instead the Republicans think he is having a war on coal, thanks to the EPA's new CO2 rulings.

[joshcryer]

20. But the President gave sweeping powers to the EPA...

...did not privatize social security, did not in fact give a tax cut to the hyper-rich (their taxes went up after the short term cut since the GOP held unemployment benefits hostage), and the president didn't cut Medicare and Medicaid (in fact the ACA expanded Medicaid to millions of Americans in states that expanded). Oh, and let us not lie about infrastructure spending, because, yaknow, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act did in fact have more than $100 billion alloted for just that. Labor got fucked because Obama's appointments to the NLRB were completely blocked at every turn and in fact there is a SCOTUS case about to come down that is going to put the NLRB's actions into dispute. 5 years the NLRB did not have the required number of appointments. Obama had no control over that.

In what reality are you living where all these stupid things that didn't happen happened?

[pnwmom]

36. Thank you for the reality check. n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

25. Swing and a miss!

[JackInGreen]

31. I really REALLY wish I couldn't agree

but that would be to fly in the face of the evidence. I don't know if 'paulite' would be apt, but they're certainly looking through the same lens on far too many issues for my liking.

[woo me with science]

32. Sadly, you speak the truth....

....and the smackdown of rank hypocrisy is merely the delicious cherry on top.

[ProSense]

47. LOL!

[polichick]

33. Oh-oh, you must be bitter to be so insulting to the president!!!

Why, oh why, can't you praise him???

[woo me with science]

35. Bwah. Perfect, except that

you forgot to capitalize the "H."

[polichick]

38. oops :)

[pnwmom]

34. Why are you deliberately spreading lies about the President? n/t

[Fumesucker]

37. Why do people deliberately spread lies about other DUers? n/t

[pnwmom]

39. Such as?

The OP was full of blatant lies, such as that the President supports privatizing Social Security. But I'm not sure what the point is of your statement about DUers lying about each other. It lacks context.

[Fumesucker]

41. The "Paulite" accusation for one thing, very common around here

Obama is at least as much a Paulite as many posters who get that accusation thrown at them regularly here on the DU.

[Doctor_J]

44. Well, the OP is mostly satire, to point out the absurdity of the current insult of liberals

I agree with Paul on a couple issues, the president on more issues. that doesn't make him a Paulite any more than it makes me one.

[ProSense]

46. It wasn't "satire" and look at the other post claiming it's the "truth"

[Doctor_J]

50. Truth: The president agrees with Paul about corporate solutions to education,

health care, jobs, and some other things. Satire: That makes him a "Paulite".

Seriously, wake up.

[ProSense]

52. Actually,

"Truth: The president agrees with Paul about corporate solutions to education, health care, jobs, and some other things. Satire: That makes him a "Paulite". "

...that's false: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024360050#post40

They are not private schools.

Before we get into what Obama did and didn't do, let's go over a little background. The umbrella term "charter school” refers to a range of school types, but they have the following traits in common:

• They are public schools with free tuition that don't have to abide by state or school district rules. In practice, this might mean non-unionized teachers, different disciplinary rules, longer school days, and a different curriculum, for example.

• Students choose to enroll in charter schools, often with a random lottery process when schools get oversubscribed.

• In exchange for freedom to operate independent of typical state or district rules, charter schools have specific performance standards they must meet, outlined in a charter. If the school fails, a state or school district -- whichever authorized the school in the first place -- can close it.

• Although they receive public funding, they can also accept private donations.

• They are not religious institutions.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/246/double-funding-for-federal-charter-school-program-/

Rand Paul wants to eliminate the Dept. of Education: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024360050#post19

The claim about "health care," which Paul equates to "slavery" and "jobs," which Rand Paul voted against, is absurd.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00160
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00177

What are the other "some things"?

Another thing, given the absurdity of this stupid-ass claim, you have no room to tell anyone to "wake up."

[SidDithers]

45. Oh FFS. What a dumb post...

ODS in the extreme.

Sid

[Bobbie Jo]

53. If this cohort were to post

that the sun rose today, I would have to look out the window.

I have never seen such a celebration of dishonesty. This bunch puts Faux News to shame.

Shameless.

[MineralMan]

48. Well, I suppose you intended this as satire.

If so, you should take a look at who has DU Recced it.

I'm afraid this satire, if that's what you intended, fails on several levels.

[JoePhilly]

49. 1023 0 4 48