Edward Snowden Vindicated: Obama Speech Acknowledges Changes Needed To Surveillance - HuffPo

[WillyT]

Edward Snowden Vindicated: Obama Speech Acknowledges Changes Needed To Surveillance
The Huffington Post | By Matt Sledge
Posted: 01/17/2014 12:18 pm EST | Updated: 01/17/2014 12:48 pm EST

<snip>

In a major speech Friday on the future of the National Security Agency, President Barack Obama announced a series of modest reforms to the way the agency does business. While he was doing so, he also reluctantly acknowledged the secret surveillance programs that former NSA contractor Edward Snowden exposed needed changing.

"The task before us now is greater than simply repairing the damage done to our operations; or preventing more disclosures from taking place in the future," Obama said. "Instead, we have to make some important decisions about how to protect ourselves and sustain our leadership in the world, while upholding the civil liberties and privacy protections that our ideals -- and our Constitution -- require."

Obama's remarks were grudging toward Snowden, who fled to Russia after his leaks were made public and has been charged with violating the Espionage Act. The president said he was "not going to dwell on Mr. Snowden’s actions or motivations," and that "our nation’s defense depends in part on the fidelity of those entrusted with our nation’s secrets."

But Snowden's leaks didn't just inform the public debate: in a piece on Thursday, The New York Times reported that Obama himself was unaware until Snowden's disclosures that the NSA was tapping the phones of foreign leaders like German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

<snip>

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/obama-edward-snowden_n_4617970.html

[Cali_Democrat]

1. You should check out the Drudge Report this morning, Willy

You'll dig it.

[bvar22]

12. Drudge?..... really?

Get your opinions there every morning?
.
.
.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Drudge loves him some Snowden.

As do most libertarians.

Read between the lines.

[bvar22]

17. Sorry. I don't do Drudge.

But the fact that you do Drudge, and recommend that others do Drudge,
explains a lot.

[Cali_Democrat]

18. It's not about doing Drudge. LMAO

It's about mocking that libertarian piece of SHIT and all who agree with him.

I go there to gawk and laugh.

You should try it...it's fun.

He's very stimulated by Snowden as are most of his libertarian cohorts.

[whatchamacallit]

27. Fuck anyone spying on us

and fuck their enablers.

[HangOnKids]

71. AMEN!

Just that.

[HangOnKids]

73. You didn't just gawk and laugh

YOU recommended reading it. See that was easy.

[JDPriestly]

69. I bet most libertarians also love ice cream and our Constitution and sunny days and Sundays

in the park and, and, and.

Just because most libertarians love something doesn't mean it is bad. Some things most libertarians love would be abhorrent to most Democrats. But that doesn't mean that all things libertarians love would be abhorrent to most Democrats.

We can't dismiss something as bad just because most libertarians would love it.

That is illogical. Boolean circles. Some things Libertarians love, Democrats love to. The circles may overlap.

[sabrina 1]

38. No self respecting Democrat would ever give a click to that blog. Is it still going?

Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2014, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)

So Drudge likes dogs, Willy likes dogs ..... I know that must mean something ....

Here's another one.

Cali, you should check out what Sara Palin has to say about Snowden, and Rep. Peter King ..... put it this way, they are not fans.

[Number23]

62. Nailed it in Post #1

Well done. You got the screamers immediately screaming. Not that they ever, ever, EVER seem to stop...

Though a loud number here screamed that the folks that didn't think Snowden pissed wine were "in the minority," it has been proven over and over and over again that in fact they are the ones not in touch with majority opinion. Snowden has never cracked higher than low 50s in terms of support and recent polls have the number of people who do not support or approve of his actions GROWING. And that's not just in the United States but around the world where his revelations have damaged relations between many countries. Hell even in Russia, he barely cracked 50% support and that was AFTER his 'Putin is a humanitarian' song and dance.

The waaaaay out there fringe will call you an "NSA apologist" but all you have to do is look at the folks doing the name calling to know that if THEY have a problem with what you're saying, you must be saying something true.

[JDPriestly]

70. You might enjoy the press conference given by whistleblowers Binney, Tice, et al.

For your convenience, here is the link:

http://new.livestream.com/accuracy/nsa-rebuttal/videos/39824993

Enjoy.

[msanthrope]

2. Vindicated? Did the indictment get vacated? nt

[grantcart]

37. No, but

The only documented case of protocol abuse was ES and that abuse proved reform is necessary.

[sabrina 1]

39. Have there been any indictments against War Criminals yet?

I haven't seen any so I guess that means they did nothing wrong.

The indictments against Whistle Blowers are a stain on this country.

The lack of indictments against War Criminals, Chiefs of Intel who lie to Congress, torturers, corrupt Wall St bankers are also a stain on this country.

Maybe when the rule of law is re-established we will see investigations of the crimes exposed by Whistle Blowers rather than of the messengers.

But for now, I don't expect anything to change. Well we did for a while. But now we know better.

[whatchamacallit]

41. +1000

[treestar]

65. I guess Eddie hasn't been vindicated then

and never will be until there are indictments against Bush.

[msanthrope]

66. I think we should prosecute no one until Bush is prosecuted! Free Bernie Madoff!!! nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

3. Unfortuantely, the acknowledgment does nothing to fix the problem.

I did read the President's speech. I didn't much like it. Nothing in the speech led me to believe there will be any actual, serious, structural changes.

[Rex]

4. So Obama owes Snowden a solid for a heads up on the spying agencies

illegal activities?

[mimi85]

22. I don't think anyone

owes Snowden shit.

[sabrina 1]

40. I never noticed him asking for shit. He exposed crimes he witnessed that is the duty of any citizen

especially when they are committed against the Constitution of the US. Or were for them when Bush was caught also, that would at least be consistent. I was outraged when we learned, from another Whistle Blower, that Bush's gang were spying on the American people. I'm still outraged that Bush's gang is, first of all, still running things in our Intel community and still spying on the American people.

[HangOnKids]

74. Alex Hamilton in your quote?

Alex? Really?

[The Wielding Truth]

36. Didn't the President say something about revising the NSA 3wks. before the Snowden leak?

I thought he said something like that in his speech today.

[JaneyVee]

5. No one ever argued that the NSA didn't need reforms, even Senator Obama agreed

It was more about HOW Snowden decided to do so.

[ksoze]

6. That is the heart of the matter

[Wilms]

9. And here I thought that the Constitution is "heart of the matter".

I wish I weren't so stupid.

[questionseverything]

26. the Constitution is still the law of the land

maybe it is stupid to hold on to a dream of a free people governing ourselves but i am proud to be in that "stupid" club with you

[ConservativeDemocrat]

30. Since this has been upheld dozens of times as Constitutional by the courts...

...the Constitution has nothing to do with it.

Seriously, guy. It's one thing to argue for a change in policy. It's quite another to pointing at some law you don't like and screaming Zzomyghaaawd Unconsitutionalllll!!!!!111!!!1 Based on absolutely no actual understanding of the Constitution.

You end up sounding like... well, if not exactly "stupid", more like Teabagger screaming about the ACA. The ACA, by the way, was dinged by the Supreme Court more than the NSA's activities ever have (and honestly, not that I completely agree with Justices about the hunks they took out of the ACA, but at least I'm rational enough to know that they're the people who get to decide these things).

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Wilms]

33. Are you done lecturing me from the milquetoast center?

Hardly the slam-dunk as you and other self-called Reality Based third waywards would like others to believe (even while you know better).

If you trust the government, Judge Pauley's the guy for you. If you don't, Judge Leon makes more sense.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/is-the-nsas-spying-constitutional-it-depends-which-judge-you-ask/282672/

Did the framers "trust" the government? No they didn't. And they set up reasonable restrictions.

We've had thirty-plus years of Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans. The only thing we have to show for it is a ruined economy and environment. THAT'S Reality.

"Zzomyghaaawd" is not what I said. Nor did I scream. I merely asked how the boot you're licking tastes.

[treestar]

64. +1

The Constitution Card hardly works here. The FISA has been upheld. The laws Eddie violated are not unconstitutional. It's like yelling Benghaaaaaaziii!!!!!!

[sabrina 1]

44. That's what I thought also, that the violations of Constitutional Rights using 9/11 was the heart of

the matter going back to when they began under Bush.

[Wilms]

53. So you hate Obama too?!?

Just kidding.

[Lil Missy]

7. That doesn't "vindicate" Snowden. Not hardly. n/t

[Fumesucker]

8. Why don't you care that Snowwald had pole dancers in his garage?

Missing the forest for the trees again, I see.

[bvar22]

10. I am delighted to read that headline.

Of course,
the usual defenders of the NSA will get all up in a smoke blowing tizzy trying to distort and deny.

(Man they get here FAST!
Its like they have nothing else to do.)

[font size=3]
Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.


You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.

DURec.

[BrotherIvan]

15. Is there some sort of bat alert?

Absent on TPP threads--but making damn sure we know Snowden is a traitor, and Obama never said that, and...and...

It paints a very telling picture what the President's most ardent fans support. He should send out a memo that they're showing their hand and to quit it. Because Populism™

[xiamiam]

16. waiting for their talking points

re how to backtrack ..wait for it is right..and it will be the same message echoed by all of them

[Th1onein]

61. Its like they have nothing else to do...

You notice that, too? I'm VERY bad at remembering names, and even worse at remembering screen names. But I'm getting very familiar with these same screen names here, ALWAYS supporting the conservative view. I've heard some here say that they are here to disrupt us, and thus keep us from organizing and taking any action. Might be a good idea to put them all on Ignore.

[ProSense]

11. Wait,

In a major speech Friday on the future of the National Security Agency, President Barack Obama announced a series of modest reforms to the way the agency does business. While he was doing so, he also reluctantly acknowledged the secret surveillance programs that former NSA contractor Edward Snowden exposed needed changing.

...Greenwald says it's a PR stunt, which makes you wonder if he's just upset that this President will get credit for reforming the NSA.

[randome]

19. Yeah, how can it be both a PR stunt and vindication of Showden?

The wind is a fickle mistress, I guess.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Rules are made to be broken. Including this one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hissyspit]

25. Why can't it be both?

Your logic does not follow.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

31. Because Snowden isn't in favor of "modest reforms"

He's in favor of the U.S. not having any sort of intelligence service at all, and specifically joined U.S. intelligence to sabotage it.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Fumesucker]

34. You have cites to support that Snowden is in favor of no intelligence services at all for the US? nt

[ConservativeDemocrat]

42. Given all he's broadcast about how we collect from foreign countries TO those countries

...this is a fairly inescapable conclusion.

He's told the Chinese how we monitor them. Told the Russians about monitoring telephone exchanges in Sweden. Told the Brazilians about our monitoring of Brazil. Tried to disrupt our alliance with Germany over this.

None of this has anything remotely to do with domestic intelligence, which is what his defenders hang their hats on. It's all about making our foreign intelligence services ineffective and not worth the money we spend on them.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Fumesucker]

43. No cites?

I thought not.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

49. In other news, there are no "cites"

...that say Governor Christie is at all vindictive. In fact, he is clearly on record of saying multiple times he is not. So therefore he isn't, QED.

(In case the sarcasm is beyond you, Fumesucker, some people judge others based on their behavior. Not just what they say.)

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Rex]

54. LOL!

Cites?

You expect way too much!

[sabrina 1]

45. Got a link to this: 'He's told the Chinese ... He's told the Russians' I've asked

multiple times for a link to prove these assertions and am still waiting, perhaps you can provide it for us. Thanks in advance.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

48. Sure, I'll be happy to google that for you...

Here's BusinessInsider quoting the SCMP:

And, while he hangs out in a "safe place," Snowden is now sharing more U.S. intelligence secrets with the Chinese (and world) through the South China Morning Post.

According to the SCMP, Snowden has documents showing how the U.S. has systematically targeted and hacked computers in Hong Kong and mainland China.

These attacks included:

"Extensive hacking of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages"
"Sustained attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning."
"Hacking of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet, which owns one of the most extensive fibre optic submarine cable networks in the region"

Although it's probably healthy for Americans to be reminded that their government does many of the same things that people accuse China of doing, it's hard to argue that these new leaks help America.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-gives-us-secrets-to-chinese-2013-6

On second thought, I'll let you google the rest. That took me literally ten seconds to do, and I think you should get acquainted with web searching as well - especially for things you don't want to believe.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[sabrina 1]

51. You mean he spoke to the press? We know that, that's what Whistle Blowers generally do.

YOU implied that he spoke to the Chinese and Russian Governments. I've googled and googled and have never found a shred of evidence to support that. Your link merely states that he spoke to the press.

As for where he is, the US reissponsible for Snowden being in Russia. He had no intentions of being there, but the US, for some inexplicable reason PREVENTED him from leaving Russia by removing his passport, which was merely a stopover on his way to somewhere else.

Why do you think the US Government wanted Snowden in Russia if there was any fear of the Russians gaining access to any info he has? That would seem to be a very stupid thing to do, wouldn't it?

A lot of people have been asking about that. Got any ideas?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

58. Are you seriously trying to say, Sabrina, that no one in China reads Chinese newspapers?

Or that there are no members of the Chinese government actually embedded inside Chinese news organizations?!?

If, in WW2, some version of Snowden had told the NAZI Newspapers all about the Enigma machine, but not the German Government, do you imagine this would make any difference at all in his trial for treason?

Snowden gave the Chinese Government information about our Top Secret actionable intelligence methods and activities that they quite likely did not know before. They he told lots of other people as well is not some point in his favor.

You wanted an example. You have it. If you refuse to acknowledge it, this is because you refuse to acknowledge fact. Period.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[sabrina 1]

60. When the NYT published the Pentagon Papers are you seriously saying that no one in Russia

or Vietnam read those exposures? But Ellsberg didn't go to the Russian Govt or to the Vietnamese he went to the press.

And the Press published his revelations. And if you want to know what the SC had to say to those who accused of him 'endangering this country' then go check out their decision. It's very interesting.

Again, where is the evidence of Snowden going to the Chinese Govt or Russian Govt? I still haven't seen it.

I can't believe you are equating the press with governments. That really is a stretch. Even the US Government haven't made that claim.

And you never answered my question re why the US Government forced Snowden to remain in Russia? Why would they do that if they were worried about him revealing stuff to the Russian Govt or to the Russian Press for that matter?

Still can't get any answers, but I am patient, I can wait.

[zeemike]

21. He will get credit for it when he does it.

Not for what he says, because he said a lot of things to get elected and nothing ever came of it.
I am nor from Missouri but show me.

K&R for the OP.

[randome]

23. 'Nothing' came from Candidate Obama? Nothing?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[zeemike]

32. Nothing that concerns the topic.

We still have Gitmo, and torture, and wars with no end in sight, and a survallence state that the Sazi would love to have had...the most whistle blowers prosecuted of any president and no prosecution of banisters that robbed this country blind...and a promise to pass the TPP to complete the takeover of the country by corporate interest.
But I am sure you can find something he did that will negate all of that other stuff.

[sabrina 1]

46. Have there been any indictments against War Criminals, Wall St Criminals, Torturers, people who lie

Congress, ANYTHING that might demonstrate we are operating under the rule of law?

[JDPriestly]

72. Sabrina, did you get a chance to watch the news conference by the other whistleblowers including

Binney and Tice?

Here is the link.

http://new.livestream.com/accuracy/nsa-rebuttal/videos/39824993

If you haven't watched it, it is long but worth listening to.

[sabrina 1]

76. Just saw this JDPriestly, thank you. I will listen to it.

[mimi85]

24. Yep

GG is an narcissistic asshole as well.

[Autumn]

13. Recommended, for the headline alone.

Call me cynical but I expect no real changes.

[LittleBlue]

20. K&R

Just to shove it in the faces of authoritarian lovers.

B-b-but Snowden chose Russia... er pole dancing derp

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. hahahahahahaah!

PUHLEASE!

He did more...much more...than whistleblow...

OH and by the way...the WHOLE world spies on the other leaders...THEY are NOT covered under the FISA court. You can bet Angela Merkel is spying on everyone else too..

[Blue_Tires]

29. I don't care much for the word "vindicated", as it implies

the job is finished and the battle over....

I'm still anxious to connect the pieces to a wider scope of the story....By design the entire story has been kept pretty narrowly focused up until now...

As far as I'm concerned, this is merely the end of chapter one.....

[rtracey]

35. Edward Snowden Vindicated....

He's a thief, ....Edward Snowden Vindicated......F him

[sabrina 1]

47. Like Ellsberg, a thief like Ellsberg you mean?

[HangOnKids]

75. Check the profile

LOL!

[baldguy]

50. vin·di·cate [vin-di-keyt] - to clear, as from an accusation, imputation, suspicion, or the like

Seems poor Eddie has not been "vindicated".

[gcomeau]

52. Making modest adjustments to NSA operational guidelines...

....does not "vindicate" all the things Snowden has pulled. What a ridiculous headline.

[BeyondGeography]

55. A lot of good that'll do him

[DCBob]

56. The biggest changes will be to stop future "Snowdens" from getting access to sensistive data.

The rest of it is tweakage.

[Progressive dog]

57. So they're going to ask Eddie

to come home and give him a medal.
I don't think so.

"our nation’s defense depends in part on the fidelity of those entrusted with our nation’s secrets."

[WillyT]

59. Yeah...And Our Politician's "Fidelity" To This Nation Is Underwhelming...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's how I see it.

[Progressive dog]

63. Our politicians get elected because We The People

vote for them.
That's in the Constitution, too, but the states got to decide who voted. They left out women, slaves, and even white men who were poor.
Snowden violated laws, that were written in the manner prescribed in that Constitution, now he has fled to escape justice.
Eddie remains an admitted felon under US law.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. We need more Snowdens, Mannings, and whistle blowers to get "transparency" and action.

[wildbilln864]

68. K & fucking r! n/t