FL Movie Theater Killer Tries to Invoke "Stand Your Ground"

[ashling]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/14/1269712/-FL-Movie-Theater-Killer-Tries-to-Invoke-Stand-Your-Ground?detail=facebook#

Curtis Reeves claimed that he was attacked first -- by a bag of popcorn. So when popcorn was thrown at him he responded the way you would expect any elderly Floridian would: gunning the guy down with a .380 semi-automatic. Chad Oulson, a husband and father, paid for that lack of phone etiquette with his life. (Serves him right, say the comment boards.)

Mr. Reeves claimed he was "in fear" for his life. Saying you were "in fear" is the foundation you need to invoke "Stand Your Ground" (SYG), or the "Shoot First" law as it is known here in Florida.

The Pasco Sheriff's Office, to their credit, shot that down and went ahead and charged him with second-degree murder. Thankfully, they didn't say he was justified and let him walk: unlike a certain other Sheriff's department last year that you might have heard about.

[Aristus]

1. A man who is deathly afraid of popcorn.

Just the kind of snivelling coward who feels the need to pack a gun everywhere he goes...

Fuck that guy. Throw the book at him.

Or, you know, don't. Because he might feel the need to unlimber and 'stand his ground'...

[tblue]

12. He wasn't afraid. He was looking for an excuse

to use that gun and ammo, which were fortunately so handy, just in case somebody pissed him off. I wouldn't be surprised if he went looking for someone to be annoyed by. He badly wanted to scratch that itch.

[reflection]

2. He stood his sticky, sticky theater ground. n/t

[Agschmid]

4. So sticky.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. It's about 50/50 this guy does any time.

In his favor:
A retired cop senior citizen.

vs.

Not in his favor:

Witnesses to the crime - some very close who witnessed the entire incident.

The fact the victims wife was there and/or restraining/protecting him.

The fact the murderer also wounded the wife will not play well.

Previous run-ins with a woman he harassed over texting (followed her to the bathroom).

Witnesses say he went to get management and returned more agitated.

[riqster]

7. Management likely told the shooter that it's OK to text during previews.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. I thought I read somewhere the manager was busy with another patron.

Which won't help the shooter's case either.

I think it's all going to hinge on the testimony/statements of the two guys sitting in front of the victim. Also, the wife's testimony will be, at the very least, troublesome based on sympathy.

I've seen two different descriptions of the wife's arm being in front of the victim. One said she was restraining and the other said she was shielding. Either one doesn't bode well for the shooter.

[icymist]

15. Don't forget: Felt so threaten that he left the theater...

and returned with a gun! That's right Tex. Now who feels threaten? Go on. Make my day. Throw that popcorn at me.

Stand your ground my ass.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. That's a good point.

If there is surveillance video of him getting a gun from his car he's toast.

I wonder if there are cameras in the theater? I'm sure the lobby has cameras. No?

[Jenoch]

20. It's more likely that he had the gun the entire time.

[Politicalboi]

28. Witnesses say he went to get management and returned more agitated.

I'm wondering if he went to get his gun instead of management. Time will tell. Hopefully the parking lot has cameras.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

29. Not to mention that the victim was multiple shades lighter on the melanin scale than Trayvon.

A sad, unfortunate truth, but true none the less.

[geek tragedy]

5. Maybe if the guy was armed with milk duds . . . nt

[Blue_Tires]

6. Of course, since the victim was white, they made an arrest immediately

instead of trying to cover it up

[tblue]

9. Will they tell us if the victim smoked pot?

because that was so relevant in Trayvon's case.

[pintobean]

8. Okay, nobody freak out

It' just a picture.



Popcorn porn, maybe.

[tblue]

10. It's more dangerous to eat it than to throw it.

Movie popcorn is made with icky trans fats and artificial flavor and color. Tastes good though.

[BrotherIvan]

13. Gun Nuts LIVE in fear

That's why any action scares the shit out of them. That's why they need their little weapon there to make them feel safe and secure. In a movie theater, in a grocery store, in Home Depot, you never know. Constant fear of someone taking the $20 in their wallet. Never considering not going to some of these places if they're so scary or "in a bad neighborhood" like sane people. It's just fear, 24-hour-a-day fear and a sick worldview making it an ever scarier place "out there".

It's stand your ground to them in every instance because any other human being--in their minds--potentially means them harm. So the kid who asks you if you want fries with that is threatening. The guy who walked by on the street, he wants to mug you! And that old lady putting groceries in her car, yup, she's got murder on her mind. Thank God you've got your gun!

[NightWatcher]

14. You dont get to START a fight (or verbal altercation) then claim SYG

If he had time to leave (to look for a manager), he had time to remove himself from the altercation.

Stand Your Ground needs to be revoked. If you've the opportunity to safely leave an argument, you have no right to kill someone and claim that you were in fear for your life.

[Gothmog]

16. SYG should not apply in this case

I am not a member of the Florida bar but as I understand the law there must be a reasonable belief that you are in serious danger and the jury must consider whether a reasonable person would have this belief. The fact that this shooter may have felt threatened is meaningless unless such fear was reasonable under the circumstances. That standard will be hard to meet in this case from what I have read of the facts.

Given the fact that this man has had other incidents with people sending texts, it is likely that his "fears" were not reasonable. I would not be surprised to see the judge order some testing be done on the mental condition of the shooter.

[Jenoch]

24. I think you nailed it.

This guy was wound pretty tight when it comes to texting in movie theaters.

[joeybee12]

17. Well yeah, who wouldn't be? Those kernels can be awful pointy

[Sheepshank]

18. I almost wish the Sherrif/PD would let the defense stand as is

it would point out the ridiculousness of the law...and maybe get it on track for a dumping.

[Ganja Ninja]

21. If he was so timid and so afraid why would he have ever confronted the guy in the first place?

Because he wasn't afraid. He was an ex-cop, he had a gun and he knew how to use it. He relied on his gun and it gave him courage. He was an ex-cop and people will do as he says or by God they'll pay.

He was also surrounded by other movie goers too so the "in fear for my life" excuse doesn't wash.

[Rex]

22. Yet, there was no physical altercation between the two. Prior to Reeves blowing Oulson away.

Murderer lies, wow what a surprise. I hope he gets 99 years in prison, but that will never happen. Prior cop.

[Phentex]

23. sur-PRISE! sur-PRISE! sur-PRISE!

Where's Gomer when I need him?

Everybody saw this coming!

Start selecting the jury...

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Popcorn can be extremely dangerous, when thrown.

[BeyondGeography]

26. It wasn't popcorn it was Colonels of Satan

[Gothmog]

27. Here is more on the shooter's attempt to invoke SYG

According to this report, the shooter's attorney has already tried to invoke the stand your ground law http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Reeves made his first court appearance Tuesday on a charge of second-degree murder.

His attorney, Richard Escobar, tried to persuade Circuit Court Judge Lynn Tepper that his client was actually the victim in the incident and that Oulson was the "aggressor."

Police said despite Reeves' claim that he was in fear for his safety, this was not a case for Florida's "stand your ground" defense.

"Working with the state attorney's office it was determined that stand-your-ground does not fly here in this case," Nocco said.

Authorities said a preliminary investigation determined that there was no physical contact during the incident. It was popcorn, thrown by Oulson, that struck Reeves.

One has to have a reasonable basis to be in fear and so far the district attorney and the judge are taking the position that SYG does not apply in this case.

[rdharma]

30. Reminds me of this movie scene.....

[doc03]

31. They are going to make silencers legal in Ohio so we can shoot

someone in a theater without missing any of the movie. That's progress.
on edit: I re-read the story they are legal now, they want them made legal for hunting now.

[lpbk2713]

32. If he was so worried that he had to take a handgun to a daytime movie ...

perhaps he should have stayed home and considered signing up to Netflix.

[Demo_Chris]

33. In fear perhaps, but in fear for his life?

Seems a bit of a stretch.

[Initech]

34. Hmmm... popcorn vs. a .380 semi automatic... who wins?

[moondust]

35. Again showing the absurdity of SYG.

Shoot somebody/anybody and simply claim they made a threatening gesture that you were unsure of and afraid that hesitating to act could cost your life. Convince one juror and poof!