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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere MUST be a law against donning bumper stickers so offensive, no, I don't have pix!
I was too sick as a passenger this morning, riding along with my husband, who was taking me to the Med Express for this damned virus. I looked at it and said to my husband, "what a complete jaggoff". Were I more sharp, I would have grabbed a pen to write down the license plate number and complained
but to whom?
By the way, I couldn't tell if this was male or female in the driver's set, but they basically swerved in and out - anxious to get over to the left hand turn lane, then run the yellow to red arrow in their black SUV LandRover.
Back window decals -
Upper left - NRA Sticker (okay, I can deal with that)
Upper Right & middle left, bumper sticker was some narrative too small to entirely read basically that we've had the first "woman" president in office Then, picture of Obama holding his head up in a less than masculine pose WTF?
Lower Left - The clearly defined word taking up most of bumper sticker (this is what floored me) "C "Obama icon" for the letter "O" C K S U C K E R.
Okay, so should I see this shit again, is there a recourse?
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,833 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)...
lunasun
(21,646 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I could tell he was headed over to Westmoreland county, based on his turn. Many of the McMansions of the upwardly mobile 40 somethings move from Allegheny county there to avoid taxes...
seattledo
(295 posts)to have money to afford one.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)usually through their church. You know 'a fool and his money are soon parted?' or whatever that saying is? There is no shortage of fools on the right.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)He's not breaking the law. Defend it.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Speech that directly incites violence, directly and clearly instills fear others, or obscenity can be banned. It may be reasonably arguable that the phrase "cocksucker" advertised on a car is obscene.
I tend to lean against these restrictions, but they are well established in law.
sir pball
(4,741 posts)Obscenity subject to regulation is pretty clearly defined in Miller v. California:
The Court, in an attempt to set such limits devised a set of three criteria which must be met in order for a work to be legitimately subject to state regulation:
1. whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards (not national standards, as some prior tests required), would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest;
2. whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[14] specifically defined by applicable state law; and
3. "whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."[15]
I suppose you could make a case on point 2, I'd call "cocksucking" a sexual conduct - but then you're still going to run afoul of #3, it may be juvenile and offensive but even I could buy that it's a serious political work. Certainly nothing described meets the Brandenburg standard ("advocacy...directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action" , even with the special protections afforded the President with respect to advocacy of violence there's no ground there. The Larry Flynt case rules out the argument that it's offensive to call the President gay or a cocksucker - you're allowed to do that with impunity to public figures. Ummm...and I'm out of ideas for what else is unprotected. Maybe false statements/libel; AFAIK even public figures are protected from that, but it's a bit nebulous and is political speech anyway.
I like that asshats are allowed to slap their offensive ideas on bumper stickers on their SUVs - it lets us all know how idiotic they are beforehand, and more seriously by not making certain ideologies a forbidden fruit, IMO they're much less insidious and attractive. When the public attitude is just disdainful superiority instead of suppression, it's a lot less interesting to be seen as dumb than being part of an underground "rebel" organization. Or something.
TheMightyFavog
(13,770 posts)It's a nice easy way for us to figure out who all the assholes are.
brooklynite
(94,501 posts)That includes speech that you don't happen to like.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)And report this behavior to the thought police.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I think those goes to the office of prohibited printed material.
How are you enjoying your stay at DU so far, by the way?
Bryant
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)Thank you for asking.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)The so called, "thought police" = municipal police officers. I'd probably do better to take the advice down thread to determine IF we have any obscenity laws where these things are displayed.
Sassysdad
(65 posts)Certainly you have a right to express your displeasure to the occupants(I wouldn't advise it) but "recourse"....what would that entail? Forcing removal of the offending decals?
Nope, you have no legal recourse for what you describe.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)this "jaggoff" .
Not sure there is much one can legally do about it but encourage everyone who believes differently to vote and help decent candidates. Of course, if right wing candidates get beat, we'll just see more hatred like this, and more of the "take my country" back crud. But, it's easier to laugh at them when their favored ignorant bigots aren't controlling the government.
Shandris
(3,447 posts)...although from a quick google search, it seems its mostly fines. Still, a moral victory is better than no victory at all.
Here's a sample link: http://www.wkrn.com/story/15009792/stricter-offensive-bumper-sticker-law-takes-effect
You would need to check for your city/state, of course, but hopefully it's a good start!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Thanks for the link. It constitutes patently offensive, if not obscene. I mean, really!
Shandris
(3,447 posts)I would be positively livid if my niece were to see something like that. Do let us know if anything turns up!
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)unconsitutional. For a rundown of such cases, you can visit this link:
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/bumper-stickers
Tennessee has such a law, and so do some other Bible Belt states. But, when push comes to shove, a judge tosses the charges out. Read the link.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)and ask them. If there was any sort of legal action, it would come from them.
I am in favor of free speech, but not vulgar speech in public. I know there are laws on the books in some places making vulgar speech in public against the law.Those laws are rarely enforced.
BanzaiBonnie
(3,621 posts)outside our local market.
It said "CONTROL YOUR KIDS NOT OUR GUNS"
I was digusted. If the owner of the vehicle had approached at the moment I read that, I might have slapped them.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)Then you would be the one facing a criminal charge.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)
"really? How should those elementary kids who were shot to death have been 'controlled'? Huh?
Ignoramos!
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)I also agree people should control their children better and am a gun owner.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)And if they responded in-kind to your unprovoked act of violence?
tritsofme
(17,376 posts)No? Well here's my advice.
What's the deal with this censorship drive around here lately?
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)Beats the hell out of me.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I haven't been following the threads to know what you're talking about.
I'm pretty sure I can handle freedom of speech, but to let kids figure out the word, "cocksucker" from the back of the vehicle in front on you just might be stepping over the line.
I'm pretty sure that word was the one that did it for me.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)to modify the 1A to make hate/racial speech illegal.
I agree that it's highly offensive, but I wouldn't want it made illegal, that's a slippery slope that could backfire.
Kingofalldems
(38,450 posts)Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)Address the poster who brought it up.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024320143#post11
Kingofalldems
(38,450 posts)Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)That's twice you've taken it upon yourself to post that link without any explanation.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Especially the one about liberal bumper stickers. Would they be as offensive as "cocksucker"?
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)Back of my SUV right now:
Liberals fuck better----Driver side bumper
If I wanted to be a pussy I would be a vegan----Driver side window
If you are going to ride my ass, at least pull my hair----Passenger bumper
and the Hawaiian State Flag-------Passenger window
I like my freedom of speech thank you very much.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I do think liberals must fuck better.
Make7
(8,543 posts)AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)I may need to add that one
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)But, I GET it
.
I am one to say all KINDS of offensive stuff on DU, when the mood strikes, but I'd NEVER have half of the stuff on my bumper or back car window that I've seen in this thread
Interesting, for sure.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)from the corporate propaganda brigade.
I don't know this poster's history so can't speak to this post directly, but posts seeking "reasonable discussion" of options for trashing our Constitution as though they were reasonable, debatable ideas have been a staple in the propaganda coming from the usual corporate apologists and mouthpieces...e.g., for the NSA.
I have written about this normalizing tactic before:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981567
The corporate-authoritarian propaganda in the MSM and right here on DU now is inviting you to "debate" your fundamental Constitutional rights. You are being asked to have very respectful and serious discussions about the pros and cons of the government's having the right to spy on every single one of us, and amass and store our private information and communication activities in databases that can be accessed at any time in the future. The rationalizations are varied but invariably outrageous: Corporations do it, so what's the difference? Doesn't the new world of terrorism demand new methods? Don't you realize some bad, bad Republicans are against this?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
How does authoritarianism happen? Bit by bit, step by step. And the outrageous propaganda we are seeing now is designed to shift our thinking.....to invite us to debate, in utter seriousness and with great respect for the opposing arguments, our Constitutional rights, as though they should be debatable at all. We do not entertain "serious" and "rational" debates about the pros and cons of killing and eating small children. We likewise should not respond to these oh-so-serious bids to debate whether we really need our fundamental Constitutional rights and protections.
nil desperandum
(654 posts)Fundamental rights written into the constitution were done so from the premise we were all born with these rights, not that the government "granted" us these rights. As a consequence of being born with these rights it was the duty of the founders to keep the government from interfering with our birthright.
Too many in today's society have bought into the idea these rights are "granted" to us by the government and as such are subject to change...this a dangerous perception and leads to exactly what you suggest, authoritarianism and the natural progression from there which is totalitarian oppression by the government of the people.
Thanks for posting this.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)and thanks especially for emphasizing that these are rights that no government has the authority to give or withhold.
The propaganda machine in this country - its malignant content and its infestation of gathering places like this across the internet - has become nothing short of creepy and disturbing in recent years. We live in precarious times.
I am glad you came to DU and hope to see you posting more.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)I suspect confronting them would be a mistake as the driver is probably meaner and nastier than you are. Your best response would be the typical letter to the editor, work on getting out the vote, etc.
Or you could follow the driver home and take whatever action you deem appropriate.
FSogol
(45,473 posts)and sometimes potatoes get wedged up tailpipes.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)you could either get the crap kicked out of you or be facing a criminal charge.
FSogol
(45,473 posts)I'll scan the newspaper for dumbasses shooting each other in the parking lot.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)It's just not a good idea to tell someone to break the law, that's all.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)kairos12
(12,852 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)(same price range, though, eh?)
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)Digitally obscure the numbers of the plate. You can leave the state/county portion. Post on the internet to have the owner mocked & ridiculed - and shared through social media.
That's what you can do.
Sooner or later someone will recognise the vehicle and show/tell the owner. Who will tell everyone how proud he is... but he will actually be secretly seething that someone had the nerve to do that to him.
Or you can just accept that there really is no recourse to prevent people from expressing their ignorance in such a public fashion. I wouldn't advise open confrontation with the individual.
The person intended to offend...turn it back on them. But don't allow them to ruin your day.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I do believe I'll remember that one!
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)I don't fret over it though. Just happy they aren't my neighbors.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)Deacons in Bible-thumping churches. Public humiliation is the way to go.
Maybe a nice, liberal policeman will find a good reason to ticket them.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Police officers is the correct terminology.
As for liberal police officers - I have tried posting about the idea of more liberals / progressives getting into law enforcement as police and prosecutors. The idea sinks like a rock.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)but a myself and a few of my team members are pretty progressive, we all get along very well, conservative and liberal as we don't discuss politics while on the job.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)if he doesn't get a chance to play professional baseball (he's fucking awesome!) he intends to pursue a career in Law Enforcement.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:29 PM - Edit history (1)
When I think what rotten fuckers we all were for years using terms like policeman and fireman.
btw
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Yep, that's me...Mister Perfect Grammar Person!
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)If you are old school, it takes some work to evolve out of a traditional mindset. But the benefits of opening up these occupations to more women is clear.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Those backwards slops are still using the word 'airman'. Maybe you could come up with another word for air force enlisted people. Airperson? Airhuman? Airhead?
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)And instead of Seaman and Fireman and Constructionman, they can use Sailor or Engineer for the Navy
onenote
(42,693 posts)to see his car?
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)for having anti-Bush bumperstickers on my vehicle. Police should not let their personal political beliefs determine who gets ticketed and who doesn't.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)why would you want that jag-off to remove a display of what an idiot he/she is?
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)If a photo managed to go viral through social media, with personally-identifying data obscured, that seems appropriate. More speech is good, and one would hope that ridicule is all the "vengeance" a liberal soul would want.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)The decency of people consistently amaze me, though.
And, I say this, fully understanding that I've called Bush Crime Family members far worse. However, I cannot for the life of me see how I could sport such a bumper sticker.
True, true, true
not a thing (outside a local ordinance that would be impossible to enforce) one can do about it.
Meanwhile, we have, as you imply fair "jaggoff" warning
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)about the BFEE/Neocon crowd, I did too. However, I cannot for the life of me figure out why the venom toward President Obama, who isn't the BFEE/Neocon crowd, can be soooooo.... Nevermind. I know what their problem with Obama is...
He ain't white.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)The solution to bad speech is good speech.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)cite 'sexual acts' as covered by the law, so this one would apply. It's a question of local law.
RadleyJ
(37 posts)they've accomplished the mission they set out to do.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)therefore, I'll take the advice of carrying my camera around with me, should I see this again.
I believe the offensive bumper stickers have always been there, but they tend to be really offensive these days. Tea bagger, I'm guessing, as these people cannot intellectualize any frustration outside of that and mis-spelling their home-made signs!
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Yes.
But censorship is not the answer. Education is.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I like reply #16's best.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)I guess you're stuck with vigilante justice.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Warpy
(111,245 posts)and I don't suggest ramming him unless you're wealthy enough to avoid the consequences.
Free speech extends to bumper stickers that proclaim to the world what an asshole the car owner is.
Personally, I'm grateful for the warning.
onenote
(42,693 posts)You are offended by a bumper sticker that spells out "cocksucker" particularly where that bumper sticker links the word to President Obama. I have no doubt that during Chimpy's presidency, there were some who might be offended by a bumper sticker that said "Fuck Bush."
Both are expressing, albeit ham handedly, political speech. And both are protected.
As for laws that prohibit "obscene" or "patently offensive" bumper stickers, where those bumper stickers merely contain words, rather than images, good luck having them upheld if challenged.
If there was a graphic visual depiction of someone "sucking cock" on a bumper sticker -- yes, it could be legislated against. But the word itself? No. Think of it this way: a graphic depiction of a vagina or a penis on a bumper sticker might be legislated against as "patently offensive" but a bumper sticker that has the word "cock" or "pussy" wouldn't be a proper subject for the law and neither would one with the word "penis" or "vagina."
I had a friend who wanted to put a bumper sticker on her car that said "fuck cancer." She decided not to, but I doubt she would have been prosecuted if she had.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Yeah, I did see at least one "fuck bush" bumper sticker, which was offensive enough, come to think about it.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)My bumper sticker said Buck Fush.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)n/t
lame54
(35,284 posts)get on with your life
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Get on with your life.
We have a lot of rights in this country. "Not being offended" isn't one of those rights.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)MineralMan
(146,286 posts)it would be unconstitutional.
When I see moronic bumper stickers like that, I use them to be informed that there is a moron behind the wheel of that vehicle, and I give morons a very wide berth.
There's no sense in letting someone else's stupidity ruin your day. Just shake your head at the stupidity of some people and go on with your day. That's my advice.
BTW, confronting morons like that one is just not a good idea, either. If they're that angry about Obama being in office, they're probably the kind of person who would go off on you if you confront them. Just let them advertise their stupidity.
meanit
(455 posts)Nobody is talking about banning free speech. But why should parents have to explain to their kids why the president is a "cocksucker"? People really need to get a grip.
If I referred to somebody on this board as a "cocksucker", how long do you think that post would last? And whys that?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Where does it end and who gets to define decency?
Do you really not know the difference between a private message board and a public road?
meanit
(455 posts)Try common sense for a start.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)that an internet message board and a public road are two entirely different things.
meanit
(455 posts)in public, open vulgarity is usually not well accepted. What's so hard to understand about that?
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)meanit
(455 posts)nor that a national law should be made against it. But I think it should be pointed out that it's going a bit too far. It's like a bunch of school kids seeing how nasty they can talk before the teacher steps in and says "enough".
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... deciding what is "public decency" and what isn't?
Yes, somebody IS "talking about banning free speech." You, for one.
That a particular word, phrase, or thought may or may not be "allowed" on this privately owned website, is irrelevant to what happens in the public commons. What "parents have to explain to their kids" is equally irrelevant. The concept of Free Speech and practice of it as clearly put forth in the Constitution, is far more important that your personal "moral outrage."
meanit
(455 posts)If you want to carry the free speech banner on a bumper sticker that calls the president a cocksucker, be my guest. You patriot you.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Maybe you need to get a "grip" on your need to emotionally insult people you don't even know because they dare to not kowtow to your browbeating nonsense in favor of honoring the civil RIGHTS granted to each and every citizen of this nation.
Next time you feel the urge to use your strawman bullshit, you best fucking find someone else to try it on, 'cuz it don't play with this Lefty.
meanit
(455 posts)if you don't like being "emotionally insulted", then you don't fucking tell me that I'm trying take people's free speech away when I'm complaining about nasty asshole bumper stickers by right wing lunatics. You fucking got that "Lefty"?
If you haven't got the common sense to tell the difference between "honoring the civil rights" granted to everybody and outrage over an asshole bumper sticker, then you are the one using straw man bullshit.
You don't get to be judge and jury over everybody concerning free speech.
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)Except wait.............you think you do.
meanit
(455 posts)People just need to be able to take it when somebody calls them out on what they say. That's part of the deal.
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)it's when someone thinks that silencing others is the best idea that I flip my shit.
meanit
(455 posts)advocated for silencing people or their free speech.
But people need to be able to account for what they say.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Plenty of room for you on my ignore list.
Bye bye. Have a nice life.
meanit
(455 posts)I'm done with you too, "pal".
PlanetaryOrbit
(155 posts)Free speech? Or not?
meanit
(455 posts)this isn't about a person saying what they think. It's about a dirty bumper sticker and the lack of decency in displaying it in public.
And as far as GWB is concerned, I would have been just as offended if I saw the same thing on a bumper sticker about him. And I've said much worse about him.
On an unrelated note, I wonder if the screeching of free speech would be the same here if the bumper sticker had said that Obama was a c*nt or a f*ggot?
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)it's still free speech.
I wouldn't like it, but I will defend someone's right to free speech.
meanit
(455 posts)but people need to accept responsibility for what they say. The right is held accountable for little of what they say.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)about accepting responsibility for the results of the free speech.
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)The whole point in a Bill of Rights, particularly the First Amendment is the protection of speech that goes against the grain.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Maybe I am just being prudish, but I don't think that this word (and some others) should be on bumper stickers. And I don't care if it is a liberal or a conservative message. Bumper stickers are too public to have profane words on them.
Free speech does have limits, and I don't have a problem with having a list of words that are considered profanity. They already have that list for use on airwaves.
meanit
(455 posts)than could ever be printed on any bumper sticker, but it's usually in a private conversation or statement.
IMO, real free speech, as envisioned by the founding fathers, has always carried the implied requirement of basic common decency.
onenote
(42,693 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)
Defending one's right to "offend common decency" doesn't mean that I think its a good thing to do so. But as the Supreme Court has observed, one many's vulgarity may be another man's lyric. And as a court in the not so progressive state of Georgia observed in striking down that state's "bumper sticker law":
The audience of observers of bumper stickers is not made up primarily of minors or other persons of delicate sensibilities.
meanit
(455 posts)on anti-democrat bumper stickers, that ruling will probably change on the same day.
I don't think anyone wants a national law against bumper stickers; there can be local ordinances for that if people want it.
But my goodness, how far we have come to have "the president is a cocksucker" plastered on our vehicles.
onenote
(42,693 posts)when a court in Georgia dismissed the arrest of a woman who had a bumper sticker that said "I'm tired of all this BUSHIT" because the law was unconstitutional. So I guess the market isn't "cornered."
And while "community standards" have a role to play in assessing whether something meets the prong of the obscenity test that requires the speech in question, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interests, when it comes to speech with a political message -- even a profane, offensive expression of that message -- community standards are irrelevant. The speech is protected.
meanit
(455 posts)hence my interpretation of the market being "cornered".
In general, it's too bad politics has denigrated to the level it's at.
ProgressSaves
(123 posts)And be careless with your door if you happen to park beside one in the parking lot.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)Is it offensive? Of course it is. But where did you get the idea that there is some kind of Constitutional protection against being offended?
Ignore. Drive on. Repeat as necessary.
meanit
(455 posts)be a local ordinance against displaying vulgarity or something like that. Hopefully the court of public opinion will do it's job, seeing this person is doing such a great job of advertising what an idiot he is.
Initech
(100,063 posts)I saw one a couple months ago that said "The only reason we can't kill some people is because it is illegal to." At a city hall, no less. I hope this asshole likes getting pulled over.
Although my favorite one is one of those NOTW (Ed Hardy for Christians) bumper stickers that says "Blessed are the peacemakers" with a picture of a gigantic gun on it. Where in the Bible does Jesus shoot first and ask questions later?
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)It's helpful when racists self identify.
Same applies here. Let's you know exactly what you are dealing with.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Um... no. Never. You're an asshole.*
*the NRA/GOP/anti-choice bumper sticker people not you, natch
bowens43
(16,064 posts)Laffy Kat
(16,377 posts)The other day at the grocery store parking lot, a woman who had seen my van's equal sign and rainbow "Ally" bumper stickers", yelled at me from across a couple of rows, "I hate your bumper stickers!" In response I smiled and waved and said, "Oh, thanks" like I thought she had said she "loved" my stickers. I'm sure her head must have exploded at that point. It was fun.
Edit for punctuation
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)That's the way to respond, alright. The way to react to the bumper sticker "c*cksucker" for me was to be amazed, then comment to the driver (my husband) "wow
what a jaggoff!"
But, were I to have somehow managed to be following said jaggoff to a mutual place to park, I can't see me saying anything to this person. I'm sure their response wouldn't be a wise as yours was at the grocery store!
3catwoman3
(23,972 posts)... to tell who "ain't got no couth."
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Careful of the precedents you could set.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)and I would never wish to do that.
Skittles
(153,147 posts)they're a dime a dozen where I live
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)(and I'm not sure where you live, Skittles), do you notice any faster growing display of their bumper sticker feelings?
I know that there's a bit of the Duck Dynasty everywhere. I saw a surge of bumper stickers during the Monika days of Clinton. People even had the some pretty bad one inside their cubicles at work.
I guess I'm trying to assess the state of how people feel they need to express themselves these days as the American middle class continue to wither. In the case of this car, whatever was wrong with the world was all Obama's fault, and obviously, that was the way for that person to express it.
Skittles
(153,147 posts)I've seen the occasional snarky Obama sticker but nothing overtly racist
I'm in Texas but more metro than rural
PlanetaryOrbit
(155 posts).........they themselves are on the receiving end of censorship.
Freedom of speech - and censorship - goes both ways.
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Looks like someone snapped it from a parking lot.
kiva
(4,373 posts)idiots who play music, blaring from their windows, that calls women hos and skanks and worse, and says the solution is to kill someone.
Only if we can make people who wear t-shirts with nasty sayings about sex and women.
Only if we can persuade the other side to accept liberal bumper stickers that say these same things about their politicians.
Or we could just accept that public life doesn't always conform to our standards and deal with it.
demwing
(16,916 posts)and when you see such inane messages on the bumpers of the cars of the clinically stupid, grab one of your own stickers, and (how should I say it?)..."take control of the narrative."
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)They would have only seen my "Women for Obama" sticker on the passing side of my car. For some reason, I've never taken that one off since the election.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)with HUGE letters across their back window:
"Money ova bitches"
Now that's class.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Apparently, when you've been scorned by the opposite sex, staying classy means you gotta express your goals in life, eh?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Most heterosexual adults have been "scorned" by the opposite sex at one time or another. Plastering that on the back window of your car isn't the sign of a well-balanced person, know what I mean? The fact that he/she decided to refer to women as "bitches," well, I'll just let that one sit there to be observed for what it is.
Put it all together? He/She seems to be announcing, "Hello, I'm a dickwad!"
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)the term, "dickwad" It is bound by no gender
shedevil69taz
(512 posts)probably not much that can be done. Our commander made several people remove bumper stickers from their vehicles when Mr. Obama was elected...
PlanetaryOrbit
(155 posts)Pass a law saying, "The following list of words (various epithets or profanities) are banned?" That list could run hundreds of words long.
Have a jury vote every single time on whether something is offensive or not? Juries of this sort might have to convene 10,000 times a day!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Not to say any law to govern obscenity couldn't, but who could actually enforce this on roadways?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)... And take your chances.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)but I remember when the
"How my Driving" - Call 1-800-EAT-SHIT,stickers were made illegal.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)but didn't know if was deemed illegal. By whom?
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)But I dont see them anywhere anymore.
To avoid distracting other drivers and thereby reduce the likelihood of accidents arising from lack of attention or concentration, the display of obscene and patently offensive movies, bumper stickers, window signs or other markings on or in a motor vehicle which are visible to other drivers is prohibited and display of such materials shall subject the owner of the vehicle on which they are displayed, upon conviction, to a fine of not less than two dollars ($2.00) nor more than fifty dollars ($50.00). "Obscene" or "patently offensive" has the meaning specified in § 39-17-901.
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1145465279.shtml
get the red out
(13,461 posts)I have had people stop me to tell me that they appreciate my bumper stickers. I was in another city in the state last year (one more red than my own) for a dog agility trial. I was waiting in the drive through at Culvers for my dinner and the manager brought it out to me, he said he just had to thank me for my bumper sticker that said "Fox News, the More you Watch, the Less You Know". He said it made his day with all the righties he put up with every day. I said I was glad he liked it. It made me feel pretty good, and my dog didn't even bark at him when he came up to the car.
I may not be able to do anything about their ignorant bumper stickers, but I'm glad I have my own. Which are at least tasteful and humorous.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)and I'm sure the dope in the Pathfinder (my memory of what kind of car was bad, it wasn't a Land Rover, but that's moot) didn't CARE about taste, and certainly had no sense of humor.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)Many of the right wing stickers I see shouldn't be read by young kids, pretty much like what the OP described. Liberal bumper stickers generally are funny or just outraged in a G rated way. I find it quite interesting that the party of "family values" can only state their case in the most low brow fashion. I think that speaks for itself.
3catwoman3
(23,972 posts)...judge a book by its cover, or its bumper sticker, or its T-shirt.
Some years ago, we were staying in a hotel for a soccer tournament. The first night, a very thoughtless family came down the hallway quite late at night, with their kids running up and down the hall shouting, and the parents yelling at them. It lasted several minutes. I grumbled to my husband that if they did the same thing the next night, I was going to open out door and glare at them. He advised not bothering, noting that he had seen the mom, and she was wearing a T-shirt that said "Rude, Crude, and Proud Of It."
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)to their asshole opinions.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)have resorted to foul language stuck on the back of their car.
We've become a nation of uncaring idiots, and blasting the words some other dude came up with from your mobile heap's bumper doesn't make you witty.
meanit
(455 posts)and without the free speech hysterics
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Guess this wraps it up pretty well
MMM
underpants
(182,769 posts)In Virginia it is mostly for personalized plates that slipped through but what you saw is obscenity.
onenote
(42,693 posts)Not under the Supreme Court's definition of that term.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)It has to vary state to state, according to what I've read on this threat, but I'll check it out.
MMM
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)the Nazi flag superimposed over the Presidents face . I criticize the President as much as anyone mostly because of the discrepancies and Variance between the man WE sent to Washington and the President he's been .
Unfortunately the Antebellum crowd can only rue the fact that we're mostly an intelligent people who looked past Race to elect our first Multi-Racial President, hence our punishment is to suffer that ignorant attempt at word- smithing by Redneck set or Flea party .
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)He said that he would ticket this person under Title 18, Section 5903---Obscenity regulations. He said it comes down to that it is displayed where minors would be exposed to it.
(1) display or cause or permit the display of any explicit sexual materials as defined in subsection (c) in or on any window, showcase, newsstand, display rack, billboard, display board, viewing screen, motion picture screen, marquee or similar place in such manner that the display is visible from any public street, highway, sidewalk, transportation facility or other public thoroughfare, or in any business or commercial establishment where minors, as a part of the general public or otherwise, are or will probably be exposed to view all or any part of such materials
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=59&sctn=3&subsctn=0
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Just got through reading that statute, and sure as shit, you nailed the answer it under subsection "C".
Curmudgeoness, thank you as a fellow Pennsylvanian. It does matter from state to state WHAT is considered obscene under statute, which is what I was going for.
THIS ANSWERS THE QUESTION!
and a to YOU!!!
MMM
onenote
(42,693 posts)See post #165.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)You describe what should not hold, in the event someone enforced the law
(2) any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording which contains any matter enumerated in paragraph (1), or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse and which, taken as a whole, is harmful to minors.
Anyone could challenge the enforcement of that or other laws on the books, if the justice system agrees. You didn't say why it should not hold. I don't agree that it should not hold.
I say this because the word, "cocksucker" with implication of the Obama sticker can be demonstrated as something minors understand when they ride along as minors in the car. That's why I'd bet we don't see the word, "cocksucker" on political or billboard advertisements.
Present the evidence and maybe I'll understand the point you try to make here.
onenote
(42,693 posts)of "explicit sexual materials" in the statute.
I take it that you don't claim that a bumpersticker with the word "cocksucker" used in a political context is obscene under the standard for obscentity adopted by the Supreme Court.
I also take it that you agree that a bumpersticker with the word "cocksucker" dosn't fall within subsection (c)(1), which enumerates various types of visual (i.e, picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture, videotape, etc) representations of sexual conduct, nudity, etc.
So that leaves (2), which extends the definition of "explicit sexual material" to a book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced that includes the matter in (1) or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, etc.
Obviously the bumper sticker doesn't include the visual representation as described in (1), so that leaves only the second part of (2). But a bumpersticker with a single word cannot possibly meet the test of an "explicit and detailed" (not "or" verbal "description or narrative account of sexual excitement, sexual conduct. This is particular the case where the single word is used as an epithet in a political context not in a sexual context. A bumper sticker with a visual depiction of two individuals engaged in intercourse with clear depiction of genatalia --- prohibited by the statute. A bumper sticker with the word "fucker" -- not an "explicit and detailed" description of what a "fucker" is -- not within the statutory language, not within the statutory language, especially when used as an epithet in the context of political speech not for its sexual meaning.
The fact that minors may see the word cocksucker or fuck or vagina or penis or any number of words that, if depicted in a visual represenation rather than as a single word doesn't give the state the right to ban it or impose penalties for it. As stated by Justice Frankfurter, writing fo a unanimous Supreme Court in the often overlooked but very important first amendment case, Butler v. Michigan, the government generally may not "reduce the adult population ...to reading only what is fit for children."
Finally, the reason that you don't see the word cocksucker on poltical or billboard advertisements (or in magazine advertisements either) is that the word is offensive to many and thus, while one might have the right to use it, that doesn't mean its a good idea.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)when stating, "Obviously the bumper sticker doesn't include the visual representation as described in (1), so that leaves only the second part of (2). But a bumpersticker with a single word cannot possibly meet the test of an "explicit and detailed" (not "or" verbal "description or narrative account of sexual excitement, sexual conduct. "
If you are telling me that "cocksucker" doesn't meet this test, I must disagree. I think it does. And, that is EXACTLY why you don't see that work on political or billboard ads.
Of course, this word is offensive. Generally, these words are found in material that indicate should be read by adults
But, you can't control that when those words are exposed for anyone riding down the main street, USA.
It's where you display the words, not the words themselves that are regulated by the Commonwealth in this part of the law.
onenote
(42,693 posts)verbal description or narrative account of sexual conduct. Or put another way, what is the point of the requirement of a "detailed and explicit" "description or narrative account" if it can apply to a single word?
It is a fundamental rule of statutory construction that all the words in a statute be given their ordinary meaning. Your reading makes the phrase "detailed and explicit" unnecessary. Explicit would be enough. And what is the point of requiring a "description or narrative account" if it can apply to a single word rather than a detailed and explicit description of what that word means.
Finally, in Cohen v. California case in which the SCOTUS overturned the conviction of a person who was charged with violating a ban on offensive conduct by wearing in a public place a jacket emblazoned with the words "Fuck the Draft". Among other things, the court pointed out that in order to be regulated under the limited exceptions to the First Amendment applicable to indecent or obscene speech, the speech must be in some sense "erotic." This same principle is why "indecent" speech on broadcast television must not consist of a single utterance of the word "fuck" or even the repeated use of the word "fuck" in a movie such as Saving Private Ryan. The result would be no different if a character in Saving Private Ryan uttered the word "cocksucker" instead of "fuck" as an epithet.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)
for, if I were to tell a story of someone fucking their mother, I could convey this by saying "they fuck their mother", or declare them "motherfuckers"
If I use an Obama symbol which is a symbol certainly recognized by minors (just ask one) on my bumpersticker as, "cOcksucker", I'm conveying to that minor that Obama is a cocksucker. It will convey to a minor an understanding the same message.
I don't mean to beat this like a dead horse, and since you mention case law, perhaps you have a point. I'm using logic of the meaning of compound words which I know are understood by minors to tell a story.
On edit, use of brackets changed my words...
onenote
(42,693 posts)A policeman who issued a ticket under these facts should be sanctioned. The statute on its face doesn't cover this situation. It only covers "explicit sexual materials as defined in subsection (c)".
Here's the relevant portion of subsection (c):
"Explicit sexual materials," as used in this subsection, means materials which are obscene or:
(1) any picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture film, videotape or similar visual representation or image of a person or portion of the human body which depicts nudity, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse and which is harmful to minors; or
(2) any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording which contains any matter enumerated in paragraph (1), or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse and which, taken as a whole, is harmful to minors.
Bottom line: The word cocksucker as part of a political bumper sticker isn't going to cut it as either "obscene" or, under this definition, "explicit sexual materials". A graphic "explicit" depiction of someone "sucking cock" -- sure. But the word cocksucker used in a nonsexual, political context? No.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)or in any way involved in the judicial system. I just know that this particular officer said that he would act on that bumper sticker. And it was not because of the political implications since he is a right winger who hates Obama. Maybe he is just an asshole who likes to harass motorists. Maybe it is because he has pre-teen daughters. Maybe he was willing to take the chance of losing if it is challenged. Or maybe he believes that this would win if challenged. I don't know. I just asked him if it would be against any laws and what he would do.
Response to MrMickeysMom (Original post)
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Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)this is America.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)"Obama's inauguration was attended by millions, and only 14 needed to take the day off from work"
I really, really wanted to run that racist fucker off the road.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I think.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Response to MrMickeysMom (Original post)
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MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Enjoy your stay!