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MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:02 PM Jan 2014

There MUST be a law against donning bumper stickers so offensive, no, I don't have pix!

I was too sick as a passenger this morning, riding along with my husband, who was taking me to the Med Express for this damned virus. I looked at it and said to my husband, "what a complete jaggoff". Were I more sharp, I would have grabbed a pen to write down the license plate number and complained… but to whom?

By the way, I couldn't tell if this was male or female in the driver's set, but they basically swerved in and out - anxious to get over to the left hand turn lane, then run the yellow to red arrow in their black SUV LandRover.

Back window decals -
Upper left - NRA Sticker (okay, I can deal with that)
Upper Right & middle left, bumper sticker was some narrative too small to entirely read basically that we've had the first "woman" president in office… Then, picture of Obama holding his head up in a less than masculine pose… WTF?
Lower Left - The clearly defined word taking up most of bumper sticker (this is what floored me) "C "Obama icon" for the letter "O" C K S U C K E R.


Okay, so should I see this shit again, is there a recourse?


191 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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There MUST be a law against donning bumper stickers so offensive, no, I don't have pix! (Original Post) MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 OP
How do people that ignorant wind up with 'LandRover money'? Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2014 #1
They're sociopaths. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #2
+1,000,000 lunasun Jan 2014 #151
Beats me... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #40
That had to have stolen from someone... seattledo Jan 2014 #92
They 'network' laundry_queen Jan 2014 #128
freedom of speech grasswire Jan 2014 #3
Just like the 2nd Amendment, there are limits to the 1st. NutmegYankee Jan 2014 #25
Obscenity is usually pretty tightly limited to sexual stuff.. sir pball Jan 2014 #124
That's the beautiful thing about free speech. TheMightyFavog Jan 2014 #47
"Congress shall make no law.....abridging the freedom of speech" brooklynite Jan 2014 #4
Call 911 JJChambers Jan 2014 #5
Thought police don't have jurisdiction over bumper stickers el_bryanto Jan 2014 #10
Just fine JJChambers Jan 2014 #57
Not really... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #23
Not legally. Sassysdad Jan 2014 #6
Where I live, bigoted gun lovers are the majority (although they all don't advertise it like Hoyt Jan 2014 #7
Some states use obscenity laws to cover this area... Shandris Jan 2014 #8
I'll have to see what PA has to say about that... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #15
Absolutely! Shandris Jan 2014 #22
The courts have reliably thrown out such laws as MineralMan Jan 2014 #60
Call your county attorneys office tomorrow Jenoch Jan 2014 #72
I saw one yesterday... BanzaiBonnie Jan 2014 #9
Really? Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #12
At the very least, I would have approached the vehicle owner to ask... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #19
I don't think these people would have held still for a slapping Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2014 #166
"If the owner of the vehicle had approached at the moment I read that, I might have slapped them." Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2014 #175
Really? I assume you want to censor offensive liberal stickers too? tritsofme Jan 2014 #11
"What's the deal with this censorship drive around here lately?" Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #13
Was there one? MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #24
Oh, there's been a few threads on whether or not Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #29
There is no censorship drive and you know it. Kingofalldems Jan 2014 #28
Look! It's my buddy!!!!! Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #30
I am definitely not your buddy. Kingofalldems Jan 2014 #44
LOL!!!!! Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #48
Here ya go U4ikLefty Jan 2014 #53
And your point is....................? Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #55
And here I thought that we were having a bonding moment. Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #118
Hey… I've been missing out on those posts... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #33
My bumperstickers are liberal and offensive AnalystInParadise Jan 2014 #69
Thanks... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #74
Is this offensive? Make7 Jan 2014 #70
Awesome AnalystInParadise Jan 2014 #71
Probably... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #75
No, it's damn near perfect! raven mad Jan 2014 #188
There's been a lot of rhetoric to normalize authoritarianism woo me with science Jan 2014 #156
good stuff nil desperandum Jan 2014 #163
Very well said, woo me with science Jan 2014 #174
You have no legal recourse, 1st Amendment. Shrike47 Jan 2014 #14
Yes, Often the valve stems are loose on Land Rovers. You might want to check. FSogol Jan 2014 #32
Better hope you don't get caught vandalizing someone's vehicle, Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #34
LOL. Freedumb! FSogol Jan 2014 #36
Who said anything about getting shot? Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #37
This land rover is your land rover... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #35
LOL. Woody Guthrie is probably doing back flips though. kairos12 Jan 2014 #117
Since then, my husband reminded me that it was a Pathfinder... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #140
Keep a camera handy. Should you see it again snap a photo. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #16
That's probably the best way to handle it, Solly Mack... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #26
I'm often amazed by what people will put on their cars. Proudly declaring themselves pieces of shit. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #63
I like this idea. People like this are frequently Ilsa Jan 2014 #54
Sometimes humor is the best defense. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #65
PoliceMAN? FrodosPet Jan 2014 #98
Well, I know it's not the norm, Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #100
sorry. I know better. It's shorter to type. Ilsa Jan 2014 #120
My staunchly liberal eldest son is a Criminal Justice major. He's a junior in college, and ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #148
Good job you're here to nip at our heels and keep us all in check Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2014 #167
LOL! FrodosPet Jan 2014 #171
On a serious note, though, degenderizing occupation names is important FrodosPet Jan 2014 #172
You'll have to have a word with the US air force then. Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2014 #178
Maybe Zoomies? FrodosPet Jan 2014 #179
Really? You think the deacon in a bible thumping church doesn't expect members of his church onenote Jan 2014 #114
I live in NM and got ticketed in CO rusty fender Jan 2014 #147
Did you fight it? 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #149
First of all, do you believe in Constitutional rights? Second... ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #17
... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #42
Jag-off has had plenty of Constitutionally-protected speech, all one-way. Orsino Jan 2014 #51
I think the Constitutional right trumps everything... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #126
Yes, it does. If the 1st applies to us, it applies to them as well. And, to your point ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #143
No. Just no. X_Digger Jan 2014 #18
+1000. eom Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #20
Some states have laws about obscene bumperstickers, others don't, those who do tend to specifically Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #21
If they succeeded in pissing people off RadleyJ Jan 2014 #27
True... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #31
Offensive and tasteless? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #38
Why MUST there be a law? MNBrewer Jan 2014 #39
Doesn't have to be a law, but I would want to know what kind of recourse there could be... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #41
I don't think you should have ANY legal recourse MNBrewer Jan 2014 #58
Illegal = "whatever I don't like"... I looked it up! cthulu2016 Jan 2014 #122
Other than ramming the dildohead, no Warpy Jan 2014 #43
No, there doesn't have to be such a law and applied to your facts, it would be unconstitutional onenote Jan 2014 #45
Good explanation MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #64
Actually, during Shrub's reign of terro raven mad Jan 2014 #189
Is there some right to not be offended I'm unfamiliar with? eom TransitJohn Jan 2014 #46
Yeah there's a recourse... lame54 Jan 2014 #49
This is the best advice I've seen on this thread. Captain Stern Jan 2014 #52
This. Just this. flvegan Jan 2014 #56
Sorry, I support the 1st Amendment. Good luck with your "fight". nt TeamPooka Jan 2014 #50
No, there's probably no law against it, and if there were MineralMan Jan 2014 #59
Is is too much to ask for a little public decency? meanit Jan 2014 #61
Yes it is. Egnever Jan 2014 #62
Do you know the difference? meanit Jan 2014 #76
Yes common sense should tell you Egnever Jan 2014 #80
Anyone can say anything they want in private meanit Jan 2014 #86
It's not well accepted, but it's not illegal. Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #96
Never said it was illegal meanit Jan 2014 #99
And who, precisely will be in charge of... 99Forever Jan 2014 #66
You really need to get a grip. meanit Jan 2014 #78
My "grip" is just fine, pal. 99Forever Jan 2014 #88
I'll tell you what, meanit Jan 2014 #90
Nor do you. AnalystInParadise Jan 2014 #93
No, I'm no authority on others free speech. meanit Jan 2014 #101
The insults I can handle AnalystInParadise Jan 2014 #169
None of my posts on this subject ever meanit Jan 2014 #177
No pal, you'll fucking tell me nothing. 99Forever Jan 2014 #94
Thank you. meanit Jan 2014 #97
What if someone had called George W. Bush that during his presidency? PlanetaryOrbit Jan 2014 #111
First off meanit Jan 2014 #112
I would still claim that while it is wholly offensive, Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #113
Free speech is a right meanit Jan 2014 #115
Agree with you Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #116
Yep AnalystInParadise Jan 2014 #170
I agree with you, meanit. Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #83
I call the GOP things 10 times worse meanit Jan 2014 #89
Benjamin Franklin: "Everything one has a right to do is not best to be done." onenote Jan 2014 #84
And when the day comes that the right doesn't have the market cornered meanit Jan 2014 #87
Well the day came in 2006 onenote Jan 2014 #134
The right sells many more bumper stickers than the left fated rom what I see, meanit Jan 2014 #145
Well MNBrewer Jan 2014 #119
Give 'em the middle finger if they're on the road... ProgressSaves Jan 2014 #67
That would fall under the Sticks & Stones Amendment. WillowTree Jan 2014 #68
The only possible protection would meanit Jan 2014 #95
Seems to be the mentality of NRA fans. Initech Jan 2014 #73
Think of it as doing you and the world a favor. It's an "idiot detection device". PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #77
I say the same about confederate flags. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #79
Also helps make decisions if said idiot wants me to yield. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #82
recourse? No, of course not. bowens43 Jan 2014 #81
I feel your pain but ya gotta let it slide. Laffy Kat Jan 2014 #85
I like your attitude, Laffy Kat MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #125
It does make it very easy... 3catwoman3 Jan 2014 #91
the stickers are offensive, but they should not be criminalized bluestateguy Jan 2014 #102
True, that... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #127
hmmmmm........a racist, misogynistic homophobic gun humping coward Skittles Jan 2014 #103
Since you said that... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #129
bumperstickers are not big around here Skittles Jan 2014 #153
Many people are quick to call for offensive speech to be banned, until....... PlanetaryOrbit Jan 2014 #104
Pretty mild compared to this little gem... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #105
That's pretty fucking bad, H_Tron! MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #130
Only if there's a recourse for kiva Jan 2014 #106
Carry a stack of Obama bumper stickers demwing Jan 2014 #107
Had I passed this car... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #131
There's one around here Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #108
That one could have several meanings... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #135
Nah, I think the meaning's pretty clear. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #142
Glad to see I'm not the only person aptly expressing... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #164
Unless they are a member of the Armed Forces shedevil69taz Jan 2014 #109
How exactly would such speech be banned? I'm asking a technical question. PlanetaryOrbit Jan 2014 #110
Yeah, it's not enforceable. MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #136
Move to an Amish community... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #121
It may date you Go Vols Jan 2014 #123
I remember that one… MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #137
It may just be Tenn. Go Vols Jan 2014 #141
I just take joy in my own stickers, only recourse get the red out Jan 2014 #132
Tasteful and humorous go a long way... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #139
The right wing stickers are nasty, ours generally aren't get the red out Jan 2014 #144
Excellent point about low brow expression. In quite a number of cases, you really can... 3catwoman3 Jan 2014 #157
Yes, your recourse is to learn to live with it. This is america and even assholes have rights CBGLuthier Jan 2014 #133
Unfortunately, no. Free Speech. However, it disgusts me that both conservatives and liberals ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #138
This ^^^^ meanit Jan 2014 #146
Yep... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #150
Your DMV has a phone number or website link underpants Jan 2014 #152
What they saw is not obscenity. onenote Jan 2014 #154
Thanks, underpants... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #159
Where I live people hang signs of the President with orpupilofnature57 Jan 2014 #155
I'm sure you'll get some true rednecks to take offensive ... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #160
I spoke to a police officer that I know in PA. Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #158
DING! DING! ... WE HAVE A WINNER!!! MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #161
Sorry, but you don't have a winner. onenote Jan 2014 #176
I did see your post... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #180
It shouldn't hold because a bumpersticker with the word "cocksucker" doesn't meet the definition onenote Jan 2014 #182
The devil, you say... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #185
how does the single word 'cocksucker' meet the requirement of an "explicit AND detailed" onenote Jan 2014 #186
I define a "description or narrative account" as something not constituted by word count... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #187
If challenged, the ticket would be tossed. Guaranteed. onenote Jan 2014 #165
That may be true, I am not in law enforcement Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #183
This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Jan 2014 #162
Just a reminder Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2014 #168
Seen yesterday.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2014 #173
This gem adds some class warfare... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #181
He shouldn't be arrested for it. But he *should* be shunned by all decent people. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #184
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #190
Geez, you had to travel long and far to find that one... MrMickeysMom Jun 2015 #191

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
40. Beats me...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:10 PM
Jan 2014

I could tell he was headed over to Westmoreland county, based on his turn. Many of the McMansions of the upwardly mobile 40 somethings move from Allegheny county there to avoid taxes...

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
128. They 'network'
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jan 2014

usually through their church. You know 'a fool and his money are soon parted?' or whatever that saying is? There is no shortage of fools on the right.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
25. Just like the 2nd Amendment, there are limits to the 1st.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:44 PM
Jan 2014

Speech that directly incites violence, directly and clearly instills fear others, or obscenity can be banned. It may be reasonably arguable that the phrase "cocksucker" advertised on a car is obscene.

I tend to lean against these restrictions, but they are well established in law.

sir pball

(4,741 posts)
124. Obscenity is usually pretty tightly limited to sexual stuff..
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 01:09 AM
Jan 2014

Obscenity subject to regulation is pretty clearly defined in Miller v. California:

The Court, in an attempt to set such limits devised a set of three criteria which must be met in order for a work to be legitimately subject to state regulation:
1. whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards (not national standards, as some prior tests required), would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest;
2. whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[14] specifically defined by applicable state law; and
3. "whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."[15]
Wikipedia

I suppose you could make a case on point 2, I'd call "cocksucking" a sexual conduct - but then you're still going to run afoul of #3, it may be juvenile and offensive but even I could buy that it's a serious political work. Certainly nothing described meets the Brandenburg standard ("advocacy...directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action&quot , even with the special protections afforded the President with respect to advocacy of violence there's no ground there. The Larry Flynt case rules out the argument that it's offensive to call the President gay or a cocksucker - you're allowed to do that with impunity to public figures. Ummm...and I'm out of ideas for what else is unprotected. Maybe false statements/libel; AFAIK even public figures are protected from that, but it's a bit nebulous and is political speech anyway.

I like that asshats are allowed to slap their offensive ideas on bumper stickers on their SUVs - it lets us all know how idiotic they are beforehand, and more seriously by not making certain ideologies a forbidden fruit, IMO they're much less insidious and attractive. When the public attitude is just disdainful superiority instead of suppression, it's a lot less interesting to be seen as dumb than being part of an underground "rebel" organization. Or something.

TheMightyFavog

(13,770 posts)
47. That's the beautiful thing about free speech.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:27 PM
Jan 2014

It's a nice easy way for us to figure out who all the assholes are.

brooklynite

(94,501 posts)
4. "Congress shall make no law.....abridging the freedom of speech"
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:13 PM
Jan 2014

That includes speech that you don't happen to like.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
10. Thought police don't have jurisdiction over bumper stickers
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:26 PM
Jan 2014

I think those goes to the office of prohibited printed material.

How are you enjoying your stay at DU so far, by the way?

Bryant

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
23. Not really...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jan 2014

The so called, "thought police" = municipal police officers. I'd probably do better to take the advice down thread to determine IF we have any obscenity laws where these things are displayed.

 

Sassysdad

(65 posts)
6. Not legally.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:15 PM
Jan 2014

Certainly you have a right to express your displeasure to the occupants(I wouldn't advise it) but "recourse"....what would that entail? Forcing removal of the offending decals?
Nope, you have no legal recourse for what you describe.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
7. Where I live, bigoted gun lovers are the majority (although they all don't advertise it like
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jan 2014

this "jaggoff&quot .

Not sure there is much one can legally do about it but encourage everyone who believes differently to vote and help decent candidates. Of course, if right wing candidates get beat, we'll just see more hatred like this, and more of the "take my country" back crud. But, it's easier to laugh at them when their favored ignorant bigots aren't controlling the government.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
8. Some states use obscenity laws to cover this area...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:19 PM
Jan 2014

...although from a quick google search, it seems its mostly fines. Still, a moral victory is better than no victory at all.

Here's a sample link: http://www.wkrn.com/story/15009792/stricter-offensive-bumper-sticker-law-takes-effect

You would need to check for your city/state, of course, but hopefully it's a good start!

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
15. I'll have to see what PA has to say about that...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jan 2014

Thanks for the link. It constitutes patently offensive, if not obscene. I mean, really!

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
22. Absolutely!
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:38 PM
Jan 2014

I would be positively livid if my niece were to see something like that. Do let us know if anything turns up!

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
60. The courts have reliably thrown out such laws as
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:35 PM
Jan 2014

unconsitutional. For a rundown of such cases, you can visit this link:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/bumper-stickers

Tennessee has such a law, and so do some other Bible Belt states. But, when push comes to shove, a judge tosses the charges out. Read the link.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
72. Call your county attorneys office tomorrow
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jan 2014

and ask them. If there was any sort of legal action, it would come from them.

I am in favor of free speech, but not vulgar speech in public. I know there are laws on the books in some places making vulgar speech in public against the law.Those laws are rarely enforced.

BanzaiBonnie

(3,621 posts)
9. I saw one yesterday...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:23 PM
Jan 2014

outside our local market.

It said "CONTROL YOUR KIDS NOT OUR GUNS"

I was digusted. If the owner of the vehicle had approached at the moment I read that, I might have slapped them.

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
12. Really?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:28 PM
Jan 2014
I was digusted. If the owner of the vehicle had approached at the moment I read that, I might have slapped them.


Then you would be the one facing a criminal charge.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
19. At the very least, I would have approached the vehicle owner to ask...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:37 PM
Jan 2014

…"really? How should those elementary kids who were shot to death have been 'controlled'? Huh?

Ignoramos!

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
166. I don't think these people would have held still for a slapping
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:27 PM
Jan 2014

I also agree people should control their children better and am a gun owner.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
175. "If the owner of the vehicle had approached at the moment I read that, I might have slapped them."
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:24 PM
Jan 2014

And if they responded in-kind to your unprovoked act of violence?

tritsofme

(17,376 posts)
11. Really? I assume you want to censor offensive liberal stickers too?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:27 PM
Jan 2014

No? Well here's my advice.



What's the deal with this censorship drive around here lately?

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
24. Was there one?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jan 2014

I haven't been following the threads to know what you're talking about.

I'm pretty sure I can handle freedom of speech, but to let kids figure out the word, "cocksucker" from the back of the vehicle in front on you just might be stepping over the line.

I'm pretty sure that word was the one that did it for me.

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
29. Oh, there's been a few threads on whether or not
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:47 PM
Jan 2014

to modify the 1A to make hate/racial speech illegal.
I agree that it's highly offensive, but I wouldn't want it made illegal, that's a slippery slope that could backfire.

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
55. And your point is....................?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:54 PM
Jan 2014

That's twice you've taken it upon yourself to post that link without any explanation.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
33. Hey… I've been missing out on those posts...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:53 PM
Jan 2014

Especially the one about liberal bumper stickers. Would they be as offensive as "cocksucker"?

 

AnalystInParadise

(1,832 posts)
69. My bumperstickers are liberal and offensive
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:15 PM
Jan 2014

Back of my SUV right now:

Liberals fuck better----Driver side bumper

If I wanted to be a pussy I would be a vegan----Driver side window

If you are going to ride my ass, at least pull my hair----Passenger bumper

and the Hawaiian State Flag-------Passenger window

I like my freedom of speech thank you very much.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
75. Probably...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:57 PM
Jan 2014

But, I GET it….

I am one to say all KINDS of offensive stuff on DU, when the mood strikes, but I'd NEVER have half of the stuff on my bumper or back car window that I've seen in this thread… Interesting, for sure.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
156. There's been a lot of rhetoric to normalize authoritarianism
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 06:49 PM
Jan 2014

from the corporate propaganda brigade.

I don't know this poster's history so can't speak to this post directly, but posts seeking "reasonable discussion" of options for trashing our Constitution as though they were reasonable, debatable ideas have been a staple in the propaganda coming from the usual corporate apologists and mouthpieces...e.g., for the NSA.

I have written about this normalizing tactic before:

Don't entertain this garbage.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981567

The corporate-authoritarian propaganda in the MSM and right here on DU now is inviting you to "debate" your fundamental Constitutional rights. You are being asked to have very respectful and serious discussions about the pros and cons of the government's having the right to spy on every single one of us, and amass and store our private information and communication activities in databases that can be accessed at any time in the future. The rationalizations are varied but invariably outrageous: Corporations do it, so what's the difference? Doesn't the new world of terrorism demand new methods? Don't you realize some bad, bad Republicans are against this?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


How does authoritarianism happen? Bit by bit, step by step. And the outrageous propaganda we are seeing now is designed to shift our thinking.....to invite us to debate, in utter seriousness and with great respect for the opposing arguments, our Constitutional rights, as though they should be debatable at all. We do not entertain "serious" and "rational" debates about the pros and cons of killing and eating small children. We likewise should not respond to these oh-so-serious bids to debate whether we really need our fundamental Constitutional rights and protections.




nil desperandum

(654 posts)
163. good stuff
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:34 PM
Jan 2014

Fundamental rights written into the constitution were done so from the premise we were all born with these rights, not that the government "granted" us these rights. As a consequence of being born with these rights it was the duty of the founders to keep the government from interfering with our birthright.

Too many in today's society have bought into the idea these rights are "granted" to us by the government and as such are subject to change...this a dangerous perception and leads to exactly what you suggest, authoritarianism and the natural progression from there which is totalitarian oppression by the government of the people.

Thanks for posting this.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
174. Very well said,
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:37 PM
Jan 2014

and thanks especially for emphasizing that these are rights that no government has the authority to give or withhold.

The propaganda machine in this country - its malignant content and its infestation of gathering places like this across the internet - has become nothing short of creepy and disturbing in recent years. We live in precarious times.

I am glad you came to DU and hope to see you posting more.

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
14. You have no legal recourse, 1st Amendment.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:30 PM
Jan 2014

I suspect confronting them would be a mistake as the driver is probably meaner and nastier than you are. Your best response would be the typical letter to the editor, work on getting out the vote, etc.

Or you could follow the driver home and take whatever action you deem appropriate.

FSogol

(45,473 posts)
32. Yes, Often the valve stems are loose on Land Rovers. You might want to check.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:51 PM
Jan 2014

and sometimes potatoes get wedged up tailpipes.

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
34. Better hope you don't get caught vandalizing someone's vehicle,
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jan 2014

you could either get the crap kicked out of you or be facing a criminal charge.

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
37. Who said anything about getting shot?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:58 PM
Jan 2014

It's just not a good idea to tell someone to break the law, that's all.

Solly Mack

(90,762 posts)
16. Keep a camera handy. Should you see it again snap a photo.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jan 2014

Digitally obscure the numbers of the plate. You can leave the state/county portion. Post on the internet to have the owner mocked & ridiculed - and shared through social media.

That's what you can do.

Sooner or later someone will recognise the vehicle and show/tell the owner. Who will tell everyone how proud he is... but he will actually be secretly seething that someone had the nerve to do that to him.

Or you can just accept that there really is no recourse to prevent people from expressing their ignorance in such a public fashion. I wouldn't advise open confrontation with the individual.

The person intended to offend...turn it back on them. But don't allow them to ruin your day.



Solly Mack

(90,762 posts)
63. I'm often amazed by what people will put on their cars. Proudly declaring themselves pieces of shit.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:53 PM
Jan 2014

I don't fret over it though. Just happy they aren't my neighbors.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
54. I like this idea. People like this are frequently
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:53 PM
Jan 2014

Deacons in Bible-thumping churches. Public humiliation is the way to go.


Maybe a nice, liberal policeman will find a good reason to ticket them.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
98. PoliceMAN?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:20 PM
Jan 2014

Police officers is the correct terminology.

As for liberal police officers - I have tried posting about the idea of more liberals / progressives getting into law enforcement as police and prosecutors. The idea sinks like a rock.

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
100. Well, I know it's not the norm,
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:30 PM
Jan 2014

but a myself and a few of my team members are pretty progressive, we all get along very well, conservative and liberal as we don't discuss politics while on the job.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
148. My staunchly liberal eldest son is a Criminal Justice major. He's a junior in college, and ...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 04:51 PM
Jan 2014

if he doesn't get a chance to play professional baseball (he's fucking awesome!) he intends to pursue a career in Law Enforcement.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
167. Good job you're here to nip at our heels and keep us all in check
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:41 PM
Jan 2014

Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:29 PM - Edit history (1)

When I think what rotten fuckers we all were for years using terms like policeman and fireman.
btw

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
172. On a serious note, though, degenderizing occupation names is important
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:29 PM
Jan 2014

If you are old school, it takes some work to evolve out of a traditional mindset. But the benefits of opening up these occupations to more women is clear.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
178. You'll have to have a word with the US air force then.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 05:35 PM
Jan 2014

Those backwards slops are still using the word 'airman'. Maybe you could come up with another word for air force enlisted people. Airperson? Airhuman? Airhead?

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
179. Maybe Zoomies?
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:17 PM
Jan 2014

And instead of Seaman and Fireman and Constructionman, they can use Sailor or Engineer for the Navy

onenote

(42,693 posts)
114. Really? You think the deacon in a bible thumping church doesn't expect members of his church
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 11:00 PM
Jan 2014

to see his car?

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
147. I live in NM and got ticketed in CO
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 04:42 PM
Jan 2014

for having anti-Bush bumperstickers on my vehicle. Police should not let their personal political beliefs determine who gets ticketed and who doesn't.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
17. First of all, do you believe in Constitutional rights? Second...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:35 PM
Jan 2014

why would you want that jag-off to remove a display of what an idiot he/she is?

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
51. Jag-off has had plenty of Constitutionally-protected speech, all one-way.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:32 PM
Jan 2014

If a photo managed to go viral through social media, with personally-identifying data obscured, that seems appropriate. More speech is good, and one would hope that ridicule is all the "vengeance" a liberal soul would want.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
126. I think the Constitutional right trumps everything...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:07 AM
Jan 2014

The decency of people consistently amaze me, though.

And, I say this, fully understanding that I've called Bush Crime Family members far worse. However, I cannot for the life of me see how I could sport such a bumper sticker.

True, true, true… not a thing (outside a local ordinance that would be impossible to enforce) one can do about it.

Meanwhile, we have, as you imply fair "jaggoff" warning…

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
143. Yes, it does. If the 1st applies to us, it applies to them as well. And, to your point
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:46 PM
Jan 2014

about the BFEE/Neocon crowd, I did too. However, I cannot for the life of me figure out why the venom toward President Obama, who isn't the BFEE/Neocon crowd, can be soooooo.... Nevermind. I know what their problem with Obama is...

He ain't white.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
21. Some states have laws about obscene bumperstickers, others don't, those who do tend to specifically
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:37 PM
Jan 2014

cite 'sexual acts' as covered by the law, so this one would apply. It's a question of local law.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
31. True...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 03:50 PM
Jan 2014

therefore, I'll take the advice of carrying my camera around with me, should I see this again.

I believe the offensive bumper stickers have always been there, but they tend to be really offensive these days. Tea bagger, I'm guessing, as these people cannot intellectualize any frustration outside of that and mis-spelling their home-made signs!

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
41. Doesn't have to be a law, but I would want to know what kind of recourse there could be...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:12 PM
Jan 2014

I like reply #16's best.

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
43. Other than ramming the dildohead, no
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:14 PM
Jan 2014

and I don't suggest ramming him unless you're wealthy enough to avoid the consequences.

Free speech extends to bumper stickers that proclaim to the world what an asshole the car owner is.

Personally, I'm grateful for the warning.

onenote

(42,693 posts)
45. No, there doesn't have to be such a law and applied to your facts, it would be unconstitutional
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:27 PM
Jan 2014

You are offended by a bumper sticker that spells out "cocksucker" particularly where that bumper sticker links the word to President Obama. I have no doubt that during Chimpy's presidency, there were some who might be offended by a bumper sticker that said "Fuck Bush."

Both are expressing, albeit ham handedly, political speech. And both are protected.

As for laws that prohibit "obscene" or "patently offensive" bumper stickers, where those bumper stickers merely contain words, rather than images, good luck having them upheld if challenged.

If there was a graphic visual depiction of someone "sucking cock" on a bumper sticker -- yes, it could be legislated against. But the word itself? No. Think of it this way: a graphic depiction of a vagina or a penis on a bumper sticker might be legislated against as "patently offensive" but a bumper sticker that has the word "cock" or "pussy" wouldn't be a proper subject for the law and neither would one with the word "penis" or "vagina."

I had a friend who wanted to put a bumper sticker on her car that said "fuck cancer." She decided not to, but I doubt she would have been prosecuted if she had.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
64. Good explanation
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:54 PM
Jan 2014

Yeah, I did see at least one "fuck bush" bumper sticker, which was offensive enough, come to think about it.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
52. This is the best advice I've seen on this thread.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 04:45 PM
Jan 2014

Get on with your life.

We have a lot of rights in this country. "Not being offended" isn't one of those rights.

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
59. No, there's probably no law against it, and if there were
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:32 PM
Jan 2014

it would be unconstitutional.

When I see moronic bumper stickers like that, I use them to be informed that there is a moron behind the wheel of that vehicle, and I give morons a very wide berth.

There's no sense in letting someone else's stupidity ruin your day. Just shake your head at the stupidity of some people and go on with your day. That's my advice.

BTW, confronting morons like that one is just not a good idea, either. If they're that angry about Obama being in office, they're probably the kind of person who would go off on you if you confront them. Just let them advertise their stupidity.

meanit

(455 posts)
61. Is is too much to ask for a little public decency?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:40 PM
Jan 2014

Nobody is talking about banning free speech. But why should parents have to explain to their kids why the president is a "cocksucker"? People really need to get a grip.

If I referred to somebody on this board as a "cocksucker", how long do you think that post would last? And whys that?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
62. Yes it is.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:47 PM
Jan 2014

Where does it end and who gets to define decency?

Do you really not know the difference between a private message board and a public road?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
80. Yes common sense should tell you
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:17 PM
Jan 2014

that an internet message board and a public road are two entirely different things.

meanit

(455 posts)
86. Anyone can say anything they want in private
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:27 PM
Jan 2014

in public, open vulgarity is usually not well accepted. What's so hard to understand about that?

meanit

(455 posts)
99. Never said it was illegal
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:21 PM
Jan 2014

nor that a national law should be made against it. But I think it should be pointed out that it's going a bit too far. It's like a bunch of school kids seeing how nasty they can talk before the teacher steps in and says "enough".



99Forever

(14,524 posts)
66. And who, precisely will be in charge of...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:58 PM
Jan 2014

... deciding what is "public decency" and what isn't?

Yes, somebody IS "talking about banning free speech." You, for one.

That a particular word, phrase, or thought may or may not be "allowed" on this privately owned website, is irrelevant to what happens in the public commons. What "parents have to explain to their kids" is equally irrelevant. The concept of Free Speech and practice of it as clearly put forth in the Constitution, is far more important that your personal "moral outrage."

meanit

(455 posts)
78. You really need to get a grip.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:15 PM
Jan 2014

If you want to carry the free speech banner on a bumper sticker that calls the president a cocksucker, be my guest. You patriot you.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
88. My "grip" is just fine, pal.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 08:21 PM
Jan 2014

Maybe you need to get a "grip" on your need to emotionally insult people you don't even know because they dare to not kowtow to your browbeating nonsense in favor of honoring the civil RIGHTS granted to each and every citizen of this nation.

Next time you feel the urge to use your strawman bullshit, you best fucking find someone else to try it on, 'cuz it don't play with this Lefty.

meanit

(455 posts)
90. I'll tell you what,
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 08:51 PM
Jan 2014

if you don't like being "emotionally insulted", then you don't fucking tell me that I'm trying take people's free speech away when I'm complaining about nasty asshole bumper stickers by right wing lunatics. You fucking got that "Lefty"?

If you haven't got the common sense to tell the difference between "honoring the civil rights" granted to everybody and outrage over an asshole bumper sticker, then you are the one using straw man bullshit.

You don't get to be judge and jury over everybody concerning free speech.

meanit

(455 posts)
101. No, I'm no authority on others free speech.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:34 PM
Jan 2014

People just need to be able to take it when somebody calls them out on what they say. That's part of the deal.

 

AnalystInParadise

(1,832 posts)
169. The insults I can handle
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:52 PM
Jan 2014

it's when someone thinks that silencing others is the best idea that I flip my shit.

meanit

(455 posts)
177. None of my posts on this subject ever
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 04:43 PM
Jan 2014

advocated for silencing people or their free speech.

But people need to be able to account for what they say.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
94. No pal, you'll fucking tell me nothing.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:08 PM
Jan 2014

Plenty of room for you on my ignore list.

Bye bye. Have a nice life.

meanit

(455 posts)
112. First off
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 10:25 PM
Jan 2014

this isn't about a person saying what they think. It's about a dirty bumper sticker and the lack of decency in displaying it in public.

And as far as GWB is concerned, I would have been just as offended if I saw the same thing on a bumper sticker about him. And I've said much worse about him.



On an unrelated note, I wonder if the screeching of free speech would be the same here if the bumper sticker had said that Obama was a c*nt or a f*ggot?

 

Ranchemp.

(1,991 posts)
113. I would still claim that while it is wholly offensive,
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 10:42 PM
Jan 2014

it's still free speech.
I wouldn't like it, but I will defend someone's right to free speech.

meanit

(455 posts)
115. Free speech is a right
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 11:38 PM
Jan 2014

but people need to accept responsibility for what they say. The right is held accountable for little of what they say.

 

AnalystInParadise

(1,832 posts)
170. Yep
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jan 2014

The whole point in a Bill of Rights, particularly the First Amendment is the protection of speech that goes against the grain.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
83. I agree with you, meanit.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:22 PM
Jan 2014

Maybe I am just being prudish, but I don't think that this word (and some others) should be on bumper stickers. And I don't care if it is a liberal or a conservative message. Bumper stickers are too public to have profane words on them.

Free speech does have limits, and I don't have a problem with having a list of words that are considered profanity. They already have that list for use on airwaves.

meanit

(455 posts)
89. I call the GOP things 10 times worse
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 08:33 PM
Jan 2014

than could ever be printed on any bumper sticker, but it's usually in a private conversation or statement.
IMO, real free speech, as envisioned by the founding fathers, has always carried the implied requirement of basic common decency.

onenote

(42,693 posts)
84. Benjamin Franklin: "Everything one has a right to do is not best to be done."
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:22 PM
Jan 2014

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Defending one's right to "offend common decency" doesn't mean that I think its a good thing to do so. But as the Supreme Court has observed, one many's vulgarity may be another man's lyric. And as a court in the not so progressive state of Georgia observed in striking down that state's "bumper sticker law":

“The audience of observers of bumper stickers is not made up primarily of minors or other persons of delicate sensibilities.”

meanit

(455 posts)
87. And when the day comes that the right doesn't have the market cornered
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:42 PM
Jan 2014

on anti-democrat bumper stickers, that ruling will probably change on the same day.

I don't think anyone wants a national law against bumper stickers; there can be local ordinances for that if people want it.

But my goodness, how far we have come to have "the president is a cocksucker" plastered on our vehicles.

onenote

(42,693 posts)
134. Well the day came in 2006
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:35 AM
Jan 2014

when a court in Georgia dismissed the arrest of a woman who had a bumper sticker that said "I'm tired of all this BUSHIT" because the law was unconstitutional. So I guess the market isn't "cornered."

And while "community standards" have a role to play in assessing whether something meets the prong of the obscenity test that requires the speech in question, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interests, when it comes to speech with a political message -- even a profane, offensive expression of that message -- community standards are irrelevant. The speech is protected.

meanit

(455 posts)
145. The right sells many more bumper stickers than the left fated rom what I see,
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 04:25 PM
Jan 2014

hence my interpretation of the market being "cornered".

In general, it's too bad politics has denigrated to the level it's at.



 

ProgressSaves

(123 posts)
67. Give 'em the middle finger if they're on the road...
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:02 PM
Jan 2014

And be careless with your door if you happen to park beside one in the parking lot.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
68. That would fall under the Sticks & Stones Amendment.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:05 PM
Jan 2014

Is it offensive? Of course it is. But where did you get the idea that there is some kind of Constitutional protection against being offended?

Ignore. Drive on. Repeat as necessary.

meanit

(455 posts)
95. The only possible protection would
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:08 PM
Jan 2014

be a local ordinance against displaying vulgarity or something like that. Hopefully the court of public opinion will do it's job, seeing this person is doing such a great job of advertising what an idiot he is.

Initech

(100,063 posts)
73. Seems to be the mentality of NRA fans.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jan 2014

I saw one a couple months ago that said "The only reason we can't kill some people is because it is illegal to." At a city hall, no less. I hope this asshole likes getting pulled over.

Although my favorite one is one of those NOTW (Ed Hardy for Christians) bumper stickers that says "Blessed are the peacemakers" with a picture of a gigantic gun on it. Where in the Bible does Jesus shoot first and ask questions later?

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
79. I say the same about confederate flags.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:17 PM
Jan 2014

It's helpful when racists self identify.

Same applies here. Let's you know exactly what you are dealing with.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
82. Also helps make decisions if said idiot wants me to yield.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:21 PM
Jan 2014

Um... no. Never. You're an asshole.*






*the NRA/GOP/anti-choice bumper sticker people not you, natch

Laffy Kat

(16,377 posts)
85. I feel your pain but ya gotta let it slide.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jan 2014

The other day at the grocery store parking lot, a woman who had seen my van's equal sign and rainbow "Ally" bumper stickers", yelled at me from across a couple of rows, "I hate your bumper stickers!" In response I smiled and waved and said, "Oh, thanks" like I thought she had said she "loved" my stickers. I'm sure her head must have exploded at that point. It was fun.

Edit for punctuation

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
125. I like your attitude, Laffy Kat
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jan 2014

That's the way to respond, alright. The way to react to the bumper sticker "c*cksucker" for me was to be amazed, then comment to the driver (my husband) "wow… what a jaggoff!"

But, were I to have somehow managed to be following said jaggoff to a mutual place to park, I can't see me saying anything to this person. I'm sure their response wouldn't be a wise as yours was at the grocery store!

Skittles

(153,147 posts)
103. hmmmmm........a racist, misogynistic homophobic gun humping coward
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:40 PM
Jan 2014

they're a dime a dozen where I live

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
129. Since you said that...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:16 AM
Jan 2014

(and I'm not sure where you live, Skittles), do you notice any faster growing display of their bumper sticker feelings?

I know that there's a bit of the Duck Dynasty everywhere. I saw a surge of bumper stickers during the Monika days of Clinton. People even had the some pretty bad one inside their cubicles at work.

I guess I'm trying to assess the state of how people feel they need to express themselves these days as the American middle class continue to wither. In the case of this car, whatever was wrong with the world was all Obama's fault, and obviously, that was the way for that person to express it.

Skittles

(153,147 posts)
153. bumperstickers are not big around here
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jan 2014

I've seen the occasional snarky Obama sticker but nothing overtly racist

I'm in Texas but more metro than rural

PlanetaryOrbit

(155 posts)
104. Many people are quick to call for offensive speech to be banned, until.......
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:43 PM
Jan 2014

.........they themselves are on the receiving end of censorship.


Freedom of speech - and censorship - goes both ways.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
106. Only if there's a recourse for
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jan 2014

idiots who play music, blaring from their windows, that calls women hos and skanks and worse, and says the solution is to kill someone.

Only if we can make people who wear t-shirts with nasty sayings about sex and women.

Only if we can persuade the other side to accept liberal bumper stickers that say these same things about their politicians.

Or we could just accept that public life doesn't always conform to our standards and deal with it.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
107. Carry a stack of Obama bumper stickers
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jan 2014

and when you see such inane messages on the bumpers of the cars of the clinically stupid, grab one of your own stickers, and (how should I say it?)..."take control of the narrative."

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
131. Had I passed this car...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:20 AM
Jan 2014

They would have only seen my "Women for Obama" sticker on the passing side of my car. For some reason, I've never taken that one off since the election.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
108. There's one around here
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:54 PM
Jan 2014

with HUGE letters across their back window:

"Money ova bitches"

Now that's class.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
135. That one could have several meanings...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:07 PM
Jan 2014

Apparently, when you've been scorned by the opposite sex, staying classy means you gotta express your goals in life, eh?

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
142. Nah, I think the meaning's pretty clear.
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:44 PM
Jan 2014

Most heterosexual adults have been "scorned" by the opposite sex at one time or another. Plastering that on the back window of your car isn't the sign of a well-balanced person, know what I mean? The fact that he/she decided to refer to women as "bitches," well, I'll just let that one sit there to be observed for what it is.

Put it all together? He/She seems to be announcing, "Hello, I'm a dickwad!"

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
164. Glad to see I'm not the only person aptly expressing...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:00 PM
Jan 2014

… the term, "dickwad"… It is bound by no gender

shedevil69taz

(512 posts)
109. Unless they are a member of the Armed Forces
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 10:01 PM
Jan 2014

probably not much that can be done. Our commander made several people remove bumper stickers from their vehicles when Mr. Obama was elected...

PlanetaryOrbit

(155 posts)
110. How exactly would such speech be banned? I'm asking a technical question.
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 10:02 PM
Jan 2014

Pass a law saying, "The following list of words (various epithets or profanities) are banned?" That list could run hundreds of words long.


Have a jury vote every single time on whether something is offensive or not? Juries of this sort might have to convene 10,000 times a day!


MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
136. Yeah, it's not enforceable.
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:09 PM
Jan 2014

Not to say any law to govern obscenity couldn't, but who could actually enforce this on roadways?

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
123. It may date you
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:15 AM
Jan 2014

but I remember when the
"How my Driving" - Call 1-800-EAT-SHIT,stickers were made illegal.


Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
141. It may just be Tenn.
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:42 PM
Jan 2014

But I dont see them anywhere anymore.

The law that seems to be involved is Tennessee Code Annotated, § 55-8-187:

To avoid distracting other drivers and thereby reduce the likelihood of accidents arising from lack of attention or concentration, the display of obscene and patently offensive movies, bumper stickers, window signs or other markings on or in a motor vehicle which are visible to other drivers is prohibited and display of such materials shall subject the owner of the vehicle on which they are displayed, upon conviction, to a fine of not less than two dollars ($2.00) nor more than fifty dollars ($50.00). "Obscene" or "patently offensive" has the meaning specified in § 39-17-901.


http://www.volokh.com/posts/1145465279.shtml

get the red out

(13,461 posts)
132. I just take joy in my own stickers, only recourse
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:27 AM
Jan 2014

I have had people stop me to tell me that they appreciate my bumper stickers. I was in another city in the state last year (one more red than my own) for a dog agility trial. I was waiting in the drive through at Culvers for my dinner and the manager brought it out to me, he said he just had to thank me for my bumper sticker that said "Fox News, the More you Watch, the Less You Know". He said it made his day with all the righties he put up with every day. I said I was glad he liked it. It made me feel pretty good, and my dog didn't even bark at him when he came up to the car.

I may not be able to do anything about their ignorant bumper stickers, but I'm glad I have my own. Which are at least tasteful and humorous.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
139. Tasteful and humorous go a long way...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:18 PM
Jan 2014

… and I'm sure the dope in the Pathfinder (my memory of what kind of car was bad, it wasn't a Land Rover, but that's moot) didn't CARE about taste, and certainly had no sense of humor.

get the red out

(13,461 posts)
144. The right wing stickers are nasty, ours generally aren't
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 01:44 PM
Jan 2014

Many of the right wing stickers I see shouldn't be read by young kids, pretty much like what the OP described. Liberal bumper stickers generally are funny or just outraged in a G rated way. I find it quite interesting that the party of "family values" can only state their case in the most low brow fashion. I think that speaks for itself.

3catwoman3

(23,972 posts)
157. Excellent point about low brow expression. In quite a number of cases, you really can...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 07:08 PM
Jan 2014

...judge a book by its cover, or its bumper sticker, or its T-shirt.

Some years ago, we were staying in a hotel for a soccer tournament. The first night, a very thoughtless family came down the hallway quite late at night, with their kids running up and down the hall shouting, and the parents yelling at them. It lasted several minutes. I grumbled to my husband that if they did the same thing the next night, I was going to open out door and glare at them. He advised not bothering, noting that he had seen the mom, and she was wearing a T-shirt that said "Rude, Crude, and Proud Of It."

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
133. Yes, your recourse is to learn to live with it. This is america and even assholes have rights
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:33 AM
Jan 2014

to their asshole opinions.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
138. Unfortunately, no. Free Speech. However, it disgusts me that both conservatives and liberals
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 12:14 PM
Jan 2014

have resorted to foul language stuck on the back of their car.

We've become a nation of uncaring idiots, and blasting the words some other dude came up with from your mobile heap's bumper doesn't make you witty.

underpants

(182,769 posts)
152. Your DMV has a phone number or website link
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 05:56 PM
Jan 2014

In Virginia it is mostly for personalized plates that slipped through but what you saw is obscenity.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
159. Thanks, underpants...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:05 AM
Jan 2014

It has to vary state to state, according to what I've read on this threat, but I'll check it out.

MMM

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
155. Where I live people hang signs of the President with
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jan 2014

the Nazi flag superimposed over the Presidents face . I criticize the President as much as anyone mostly because of the discrepancies and Variance between the man WE sent to Washington and the President he's been .
Unfortunately the Antebellum crowd can only rue the fact that we're mostly an intelligent people who looked past Race to elect our first Multi-Racial President, hence our punishment is to suffer that ignorant attempt at word- smithing by Redneck set or Flea party .

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
158. I spoke to a police officer that I know in PA.
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 07:49 PM
Jan 2014

He said that he would ticket this person under Title 18, Section 5903---Obscenity regulations. He said it comes down to that it is displayed where minors would be exposed to it.

No person, knowing the obscene character of the materials or performances involved, shall:

(1) display or cause or permit the display of any explicit sexual materials as defined in subsection (c) in or on any window, showcase, newsstand, display rack, billboard, display board, viewing screen, motion picture screen, marquee or similar place in such manner that the display is visible from any public street, highway, sidewalk, transportation facility or other public thoroughfare, or in any business or commercial establishment where minors, as a part of the general public or otherwise, are or will probably be exposed to view all or any part of such materials


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=59&sctn=3&subsctn=0

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
161. DING! DING! ... WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:15 AM
Jan 2014

Just got through reading that statute, and sure as shit, you nailed the answer it under subsection "C".

Curmudgeoness, thank you as a fellow Pennsylvanian. It does matter from state to state WHAT is considered obscene under statute, which is what I was going for.

THIS ANSWERS THE QUESTION!

and a to YOU!!!

MMM

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
180. I did see your post...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:35 PM
Jan 2014

You describe what should not hold, in the event someone enforced the law…

(2) any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording which contains any matter enumerated in paragraph (1), or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse and which, taken as a whole, is harmful to minors.


Anyone could challenge the enforcement of that or other laws on the books, if the justice system agrees. You didn't say why it should not hold. I don't agree that it should not hold.

I say this because the word, "cocksucker" with implication of the Obama sticker can be demonstrated as something minors understand when they ride along as minors in the car. That's why I'd bet we don't see the word, "cocksucker" on political or billboard advertisements.

Present the evidence and maybe I'll understand the point you try to make here.

onenote

(42,693 posts)
182. It shouldn't hold because a bumpersticker with the word "cocksucker" doesn't meet the definition
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:12 PM
Jan 2014

of "explicit sexual materials" in the statute.

I take it that you don't claim that a bumpersticker with the word "cocksucker" used in a political context is obscene under the standard for obscentity adopted by the Supreme Court.

I also take it that you agree that a bumpersticker with the word "cocksucker" dosn't fall within subsection (c)(1), which enumerates various types of visual (i.e, picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture, videotape, etc) representations of sexual conduct, nudity, etc.

So that leaves (2), which extends the definition of "explicit sexual material" to a book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced that includes the matter in (1) or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, etc.

Obviously the bumper sticker doesn't include the visual representation as described in (1), so that leaves only the second part of (2). But a bumpersticker with a single word cannot possibly meet the test of an "explicit and detailed" (not "or&quot verbal "description or narrative account of sexual excitement, sexual conduct. This is particular the case where the single word is used as an epithet in a political context not in a sexual context. A bumper sticker with a visual depiction of two individuals engaged in intercourse with clear depiction of genatalia --- prohibited by the statute. A bumper sticker with the word "fucker" -- not an "explicit and detailed" description of what a "fucker" is -- not within the statutory language, not within the statutory language, especially when used as an epithet in the context of political speech not for its sexual meaning.

The fact that minors may see the word cocksucker or fuck or vagina or penis or any number of words that, if depicted in a visual represenation rather than as a single word doesn't give the state the right to ban it or impose penalties for it. As stated by Justice Frankfurter, writing fo a unanimous Supreme Court in the often overlooked but very important first amendment case, Butler v. Michigan, the government generally may not "reduce the adult population ...to reading only what is fit for children."

Finally, the reason that you don't see the word cocksucker on poltical or billboard advertisements (or in magazine advertisements either) is that the word is offensive to many and thus, while one might have the right to use it, that doesn't mean its a good idea.



MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
185. The devil, you say...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:12 PM
Jan 2014

when stating, "Obviously the bumper sticker doesn't include the visual representation as described in (1), so that leaves only the second part of (2). But a bumpersticker with a single word cannot possibly meet the test of an "explicit and detailed" (not "or&quot verbal "description or narrative account of sexual excitement, sexual conduct. "

If you are telling me that "cocksucker" doesn't meet this test, I must disagree. I think it does. And, that is EXACTLY why you don't see that work on political or billboard ads.

Of course, this word is offensive. Generally, these words are found in material that indicate should be read by adults… But, you can't control that when those words are exposed for anyone riding down the main street, USA.

It's where you display the words, not the words themselves that are regulated by the Commonwealth in this part of the law.



onenote

(42,693 posts)
186. how does the single word 'cocksucker' meet the requirement of an "explicit AND detailed"
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jan 2014

verbal description or narrative account of sexual conduct. Or put another way, what is the point of the requirement of a "detailed and explicit" "description or narrative account" if it can apply to a single word?

It is a fundamental rule of statutory construction that all the words in a statute be given their ordinary meaning. Your reading makes the phrase "detailed and explicit" unnecessary. Explicit would be enough. And what is the point of requiring a "description or narrative account" if it can apply to a single word rather than a detailed and explicit description of what that word means.

Finally, in Cohen v. California case in which the SCOTUS overturned the conviction of a person who was charged with violating a ban on offensive conduct by wearing in a public place a jacket emblazoned with the words "Fuck the Draft". Among other things, the court pointed out that in order to be regulated under the limited exceptions to the First Amendment applicable to indecent or obscene speech, the speech must be in some sense "erotic." This same principle is why "indecent" speech on broadcast television must not consist of a single utterance of the word "fuck" or even the repeated use of the word "fuck" in a movie such as Saving Private Ryan. The result would be no different if a character in Saving Private Ryan uttered the word "cocksucker" instead of "fuck" as an epithet.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
187. I define a "description or narrative account" as something not constituted by word count...
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 01:07 AM
Jan 2014

… for, if I were to tell a story of someone fucking their mother, I could convey this by saying "they fuck their mother", or declare them "motherfuckers"

If I use an Obama symbol which is a symbol certainly recognized by minors (just ask one) on my bumpersticker as, "cOcksucker", I'm conveying to that minor that Obama is a cocksucker. It will convey to a minor an understanding the same message.

I don't mean to beat this like a dead horse, and since you mention case law, perhaps you have a point. I'm using logic of the meaning of compound words which I know are understood by minors to tell a story.

On edit, use of brackets changed my words...

onenote

(42,693 posts)
165. If challenged, the ticket would be tossed. Guaranteed.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:01 PM
Jan 2014

A policeman who issued a ticket under these facts should be sanctioned. The statute on its face doesn't cover this situation. It only covers "explicit sexual materials as defined in subsection (c)".

Here's the relevant portion of subsection (c):

"Explicit sexual materials," as used in this subsection, means materials which are obscene or:
(1) any picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture film, videotape or similar visual representation or image of a person or portion of the human body which depicts nudity, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse and which is harmful to minors; or

(2) any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording which contains any matter enumerated in paragraph (1), or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse and which, taken as a whole, is harmful to minors.


Bottom line: The word cocksucker as part of a political bumper sticker isn't going to cut it as either "obscene" or, under this definition, "explicit sexual materials". A graphic "explicit" depiction of someone "sucking cock" -- sure. But the word cocksucker used in a nonsexual, political context? No.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
183. That may be true, I am not in law enforcement
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:20 PM
Jan 2014

or in any way involved in the judicial system. I just know that this particular officer said that he would act on that bumper sticker. And it was not because of the political implications since he is a right winger who hates Obama. Maybe he is just an asshole who likes to harass motorists. Maybe it is because he has pre-teen daughters. Maybe he was willing to take the chance of losing if it is challenged. Or maybe he believes that this would win if challenged. I don't know. I just asked him if it would be against any laws and what he would do.

Response to MrMickeysMom (Original post)

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
173. Seen yesterday....
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:32 PM
Jan 2014

"Obama's inauguration was attended by millions, and only 14 needed to take the day off from work"

I really, really wanted to run that racist fucker off the road.

Response to MrMickeysMom (Original post)

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