HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Is it ignorant/ transphob...

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:38 AM

Is it ignorant/ transphobic for a straight man to not want to date transgender women?

anonymous asked:

Is it ignorant/ transphobic for a straight man to not want to date transgender women?


blackfoxx answered:

Mmm kind of did this topic on twitter this week so you if you want more you can check it out @tgirlinterruptd

But the answer is somewhere between no not necessarily but probably so. In that, a narrative of desire around trans bodies does not exist & in that absence one of degradation and shame is offered in its place. So automatically you have sexualities and accompanying desires shaped in a context of transphobia, which both excludes and pathologizes trans bodies as abhorrent.

A lot of male sexuality is also constructed around employing hierarchies of womanhood as trophies, to prove their own worth and engage in a process of gendering themselves through access to womens’ bodies. Within that framework, some hold more currency and others (transwomen) can actually subvert heteronormative male sexualities. The opinions and shared norms of sexuality among peers, performed on womens’ bodies, plays a huge part in constructing their sexuality as well. You can imagine where transwomen fall on this scale. There’s also the fact that most men dont even have enough literacy of our bodies and our lives to even know who we are and if they are attracted to us. And dont attempt to do so because of cisnormativity.

With that being said, we live in the world we live in. If a man chooses not to date a transwoman, whatever the reason, that is his choice (though one probably informed by cisnormativity.) I am however concerned with if, in not dating transwomen, he also reinforces cissexism and transphobia in his words and actions. Everything is not for everybody nor does it have to be (even though ironically transwomen seem to always get the short end of this stick hmmm.) But what are men doing to not actively continue & participate in this cycle of shame around transwomens’ bodies? What are they doing to stop putting our lives at risk? How are they discussing our bodies and lives? In choosing not to date us, are they offering up bioessentialist rhetoric and trying to delegitimize/undermine our genders?

So basically, cisnormativity heavily informs our desires. We should all work through that. If in working through that, you still don’t find yourself attracted to transwomen? Then thats fine, but what are you doing to create & not participate in a society that shames & degrades the concept of desire around transbodies?

I wont make a blanket statement and say that ANY many who doesnt date transwomen is transphobic. But I will say that we live in a transphobic and cissexist society. And that most men ARE transphobic and cissexist. And all of those things shape our desires and sexuality.

http://curvellas.tumblr.com/post/71492289830/is-it-ignorant-transphobic-for-a-straight-man-to-not

120 replies, 61500 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 120 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is it ignorant/ transphobic for a straight man to not want to date transgender women? (Original post)
MrScorpio Dec 2013 OP
pipoman Dec 2013 #1
LittleBlue Dec 2013 #2
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #5
snooper2 Dec 2013 #104
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #105
nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #109
Post removed Dec 2013 #3
JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #6
JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #4
Squinch Dec 2013 #8
JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #17
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #10
JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #11
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #12
JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #14
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #23
TeeYiYi Dec 2013 #13
quinnox Dec 2013 #7
Shandris Dec 2013 #9
karynnj Dec 2013 #100
Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #15
PCIntern Dec 2013 #18
MineralMan Dec 2013 #16
Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #19
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #20
Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #28
rhett o rick Dec 2013 #112
Initech Dec 2013 #36
L0oniX Dec 2013 #42
Arcanetrance Dec 2013 #21
Generic Brad Dec 2013 #22
notadmblnd Dec 2013 #24
MrScorpio Dec 2013 #25
MillennialDem Dec 2013 #79
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2013 #26
Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #27
HappyMe Dec 2013 #32
loli phabay Dec 2013 #33
boston bean Dec 2013 #29
xulamaude Dec 2013 #38
tammywammy Dec 2013 #85
madinmaryland Jan 2014 #117
cali Dec 2013 #30
loli phabay Dec 2013 #31
cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #34
LittleBlue Dec 2013 #44
cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #47
kestrel91316 Dec 2013 #35
Shandris Dec 2013 #37
Heddi Dec 2013 #46
cthulu2016 Dec 2013 #103
Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #39
MillennialDem Dec 2013 #86
Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #40
ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #41
Matariki Dec 2013 #51
ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2013 #68
woolldog Dec 2013 #43
AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #45
NoOneMan Dec 2013 #53
Arcanetrance Dec 2013 #67
RedCappedBandit Dec 2013 #107
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #48
AZ Progressive Dec 2013 #56
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #60
HappyMe Dec 2013 #62
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #49
NoOneMan Dec 2013 #54
X_Digger Dec 2013 #55
HappyMe Dec 2013 #58
Marr Dec 2013 #64
Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #66
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #93
treestar Dec 2013 #69
Incitatus Dec 2013 #89
AgingAmerican Dec 2013 #50
Matariki Dec 2013 #52
Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #102
ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #57
Matariki Dec 2013 #59
Zorra Dec 2013 #61
The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #63
Kurska Dec 2013 #65
boston bean Dec 2013 #70
loli phabay Dec 2013 #71
boston bean Dec 2013 #72
loli phabay Dec 2013 #73
boston bean Dec 2013 #74
loli phabay Dec 2013 #75
boston bean Dec 2013 #76
loli phabay Dec 2013 #78
Kurska Dec 2013 #88
loli phabay Dec 2013 #90
madinmaryland Jan 2014 #118
Vattel Dec 2013 #77
Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #116
Vattel Jan 2014 #119
NoOneMan Dec 2013 #80
loli phabay Dec 2013 #81
MillennialDem Dec 2013 #82
BainsBane Dec 2013 #83
redgreenandblue Dec 2013 #84
Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #87
icymist Dec 2013 #91
loli phabay Dec 2013 #94
Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #120
Jamaal510 Dec 2013 #92
In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #95
Locut0s Dec 2013 #96
In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #97
Locut0s Dec 2013 #99
deaniac21 Dec 2013 #114
mainer Dec 2013 #98
riqster Dec 2013 #101
Zorra Dec 2013 #106
Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #108
nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #110
kwassa Dec 2013 #111
hrmjustin Dec 2013 #113
alp227 Dec 2013 #115

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:42 AM

1. offs

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:42 AM

2. This thread has the potential to be very big

 

Personally no, I don't see it as transphobic. There's no such thing as fairness or equality when it comes to sexuality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LittleBlue (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:46 AM

5. You know, I never really had any kind of college education...

However, I believe that writing such of this goes very deeply into the things that are discussed on campuses and in Gender Studies classes.

I'm having to learn new vocabulary and concepts in order to process this information.

It's really quite fascinating.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:47 AM

104. believe it or not, Jerry Springer has covered this topic quite well over the past two decades

 



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snooper2 (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:51 AM

105. Somehow, I never considered Jerry as an educational authority on the subject. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snooper2 (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:59 PM

109. There's still the sensationalistic "Look at the freak!" aspect to it. But increasing visibility

in the process was certainly not a bad thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:46 AM

4. I don't think we necessarily choose who we are attracted to.

Just like I don't think we choose our sexuality. I don't remember ever choosing to be heterosexual, just turned out that I am. Same when it came to being attracted to someone. Didn't set out to be, just happens.

If I fell in love with a man who used to be a woman, I don't think it would make me fall out of love. In fact it would certainly have it's advantages as in he'd know what it's like in a woman's world.

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:49 AM

8. I find the new NY mayor's wife's story to be interesting.

For years she identified as a lesbian, but then she met him and fell in love with him.

No matter how long this thread gets, your answer wins.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:57 AM

17. haha That's love for you!

it just sneaks up on you from out from nowhere sometimes! I didn't know that about the new mayor's wife, very interesting! I'd say it shows she is an open minded person, an excellent quality.

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:50 AM

10. By the way, your sig graphic doesn't load for me

It might work out better for you if you DL it and link it from PB

It's pretty good and ought to be seen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:52 AM

11. Thank you! Glad you like it!

I am glad you let me know you can't see it. Ok, don't laugh at me but...would "DL" be download? What does "link it from PB" mean?

Julie--who needs to get a 12 year old around here for tech support

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:53 AM

12. Sorry. DL is download and PB is Photobucket nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:55 AM

14. Thanks MrScorpio! Edit: It worked!

W00T!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:11 AM

23. WTG! nt

Way to go!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:54 AM

13. Nice post J. :)

TYY

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:47 AM

7. ..

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:50 AM

9. The articles answer is very good. A bit wordy, even for -my- tastes (which is...

 

...saying something!), but very good.

While it's not guaranteed to be ignorant or transphobic...it probably is. I know a lot of people don't like to consider that, but if you've got a woman, and you like this woman, are dating this woman, etc and then suddenly you -don't- like this woman anymore, your response is one based on (as the answerer in the article notes) cisnormativity. It's that simple.

People are what they project much, much more than what they 'have'. Given that MtF's are much more common that the reverse, it's typically a problem that cis straight males run into. I'll be happy to entertain the idea that I'm wrong after they (read: a straight male) tell me how much more sexually attractive Buck Angel is compared to a well-mannered transwoman simply because of genitalia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shandris (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:07 AM

100. It's not that simple

First of all, deciding to stop dating does not mean "don't like". At some point, dating is a process of finding someone you want to spend your life with - it's not JUST who you are initially attracted to. I know women (and men) who broke up with people for any number of reasons as they got to know them. Reasons ranged from political (ie how can you be a Republican?), control (you think I need to "ask" you if I want to add a visit to an old friend to a work trip?), religion or ethnic group (when it comes down to it - its important to some - while to others it is not important), or things less profound - you find you really don't have enough shared (or even potentially shared in the future) interests or extremely different energy levels. Not to mention, there is a correlation between the education level, social class, and even income between people getting married - just look at the wedding announcements.

It is a process - one where the majority of "relationships" fail quickly, others more gradually and some lead to a longer term relationship.

I do think there are many people who absolutely would never consider a love relationship with someone transgendered. Love is one area where you have the right to discriminate - based on anything you want! Where it would be wrong to discriminate in renting an apartment or hiring someone, on this you chose what makes you happy and comfortable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:56 AM

15. That's stupid. A man can date whoever he feels like dating

 

Don't call a young man transphobic
Because he doesn't want to date someone that is. What bullshit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:00 AM

18. Yes...

if an individual doesn't want to date "well-endowed" women, does that make him Breastophobic? I think not...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:57 AM

16. That situation has never presented itself in my life,

so I have no idea what I would do if it were presented to me. Odds are, it won't, I expect, so I'm probably not going to muse about the question all that much. We are attracted to whom we are attracted, I guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:02 AM

19. I predict 300 replies easy! Grabbing popcorn.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:03 AM

20. I'm just hoping for respect and civility

It's Sunday, everyone should be chillin'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:30 AM

28. Which of us is more likely to get their 'wish'? nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 31, 2013, 02:21 PM

112. Too late. See post #15. nm

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:14 PM

36. I've got the butter and the beer!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:31 PM

42. The jury system will be busy too.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:07 AM

21. As someone else posted up thread who you end up attracted to is in some ways out of one's control

I consider myself a straight male but I was attracted to and dated a male to female transgendered individual for a few years cause I was attracted to her. I think the decision not to can be transphobic depending on the circumstances surrounding the decision.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:08 AM

22. The heart wants what it wants

It would be ignorant and transphobic for a straight man to rule out the possibility that they could ever find a transgender woman irresistible. If I were single, the fact that a woman is transgender would not be a relationship deal breaker for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:17 AM

24. being that it is just a date, how would one necessarily know that the person they are having a date

with, is transgender?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to notadmblnd (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:21 AM

25. Well, I guess, with some folks you can tell and others, not so sure

It all depends on the person.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:39 PM

79. Offensive. I'm trans and I guarantee you couldn't tell if you bumped into me at the grocery store.

 

Most of the "you can tell" types are:

a. Early in transition.

or

b. Unable to afford / obtain some of the more important procedures.

or

c. Not trans at all - a crossdresser or similar.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:25 AM

26. IMHO People can have their preferences about what kind of people they want to date

without it being a negative statement on that individual's gender/sexuality, right? Some men might find it appealing, attractive and some might not. It could be an issue if the man wants children at some point (of course, they could adopt though). I think that the main thing is whether or not the transgender woman is upfront about her status when they start dating and how the man feels about it and whether or not they want to be in that kind of relationship. I don't see a decision not to be engaged in a relationship with a transgender woman as transphobic though rejection can be hurtful to anybody, of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:26 AM

27. We can debate transphobia, but there is a more central question...

 

"what can we do?"

My response is to accept people for who they are, and welcome them to your table as you would anyone else. My only personal experience with a transgendered woman was merely to be accepting and friendly in public situations, like restaurants. The sexual thing is as personal as the next soul walking by.

Incidentally, this general topic gets respectful treatment in the Men's Group.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:07 PM

32. This is it exactly.

I know a lovely black woman that comes to the local watering hole occasionally. She's smart and has a very wicked sense of humor. She is treated with the same respect that any woman there is.

I can't answer for a man dating a transgendered woman because I'm a woman. I think that is up to each individual. If you are going to go on a date with someone, I assume you already like them as a person. The rest is up to that couple.

I think I would probably date a transgendered guy. One of my neighbors is in the female to male process. One of the most fearless people I know. Very dry sense of humor and smart as hell.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:07 PM

33. not much i would think in the dating sense, we could not force someone to find someone hot

 

etc. no more than i could be forced to find someone outside my parameters attractive. though i wonder if porn would help to break the barriers of the unknown (just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:33 AM

29. Orange is the New Black

I believe if I remember correctly, covered this same topic as well.

It was extremely well written and realistically covered. I suggest all who would like or need a bit more exposure to this watch the show.

Laverne Cox was absolutely great!

I can't wait for season 2!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:26 PM

38. Not to derail, but I love that show too! nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:49 PM

85. I was really impressed with that show. Really liked it.

I also liked the Netflix show House of Cards. In OITNB I really liked the flashbacks. They're really developing each character well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 01:49 AM

117. Who knew that Boehner was Black. He could really use that to his advantage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:37 AM

30. wow. How poorly written and what bullshit.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:04 PM

31. i would say no more than any other dealbreaker that people have on who they date

 

people have their types that they date, not everyone finds the same people attractive. for some its height, some its weight, some its race, some its gender. we all find different stuff attractive. if someone does not want to have sex or whatever with me then its simply i am not their type. now there are some times when all rejections are based in some sort of hatred but we all have our biases,

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:09 PM

34. If the only reason he's not dating the woman is because she's trans

then yes, that is transphobic. If he's attracted to her in all the other ways, but hates the fact that she is trans, that is a shame. Trans people already have enough issues about having to transition, they don't need that on top of everything else.

On the other hand, if he's not attacted, he's not attracted. No one can be forced to be attracted to others, and in the end he will have to choose to love someone he's attracted to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cinnabonbon (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:35 PM

44. Hypothetically speaking

 

What if he dates with the goal of having children? Then would it be transphobic?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LittleBlue (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:51 PM

47. I would think that

an important dealbreaker like that would come up early in their dating. So if he wanted biological children, it would probably be prudent of the woman to let him know it can't happen, so they can find someone more suitable for each other.

I don't think that's necessarily transphobic, because they would still have the option of adoption or having a surrogate, just like regular, infertile couples. ...If they decide to stay together, that is.

But if it comes up only after he finds out she's trans, and it's used as an excuse to dump her, then that would border on transphobic again. Then it would seem like he was looking for any excuse to dump her, in my opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:12 PM

35. Given that many trans women still have male genitalia,

 

I think straight men have every right to decide they want an anatomical woman without being called transphobic.

Flame away at me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:23 PM

37. I don't understand the mentality that says...

 

...that 'straightness' is determined solely by genitalia instead of presentation and gender. To have that mentality, one must believe that a 'straight' man would be more 'straight' by dating:



and less 'straight' by dating:



I find this hard to reconcile. No flames, just something worth considering.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shandris (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:44 PM

46. Presentation aside, a straight man is not going to be interested in a penis

There's a certain point for most people where compatibility and attraction aside, if the person is not bisexual or interested in exploring different aspects of their sexuality, where someone with incompatible genitalia isn't going to be a plausible mate.

My husband has very fluid sexuality, but he is not bisexual. If he were to meet me, and I were a he transitioning to a she, and I still had he parts, no matter how compatible we were and how attractive I was, he would not be interested in pursuing the relationship while I had a penis because he's not bisexual, and he has no use for a penis other than his own.

That doesn't make him homophobic, or transphobic. It makes him someone who isn't bisexual and who doesn't have an interest in having 1) a non-sexual relationship and 2) a sexual relationship with someone with man parts, no matter how pretty a woman he is or is going to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shandris (Reply #37)


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:27 PM

39. If she's a Republican, no. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:52 PM

86. Too funny.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:29 PM

40. I don't think it is transphobic.

There is no way to duplicate a woman at this point in time. What of a person wants children?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:31 PM

41. the IT Crowd addressed some of this in one of their shows



Reynolm is pretty much displayed as a pig all throughout so their take on how it might go down is shown here...

sP

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:29 PM

51. That might have been my all time favorite episode

most especially for the Elders of the Internet!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #51)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:04 PM

68. wait a minute...wait a minute...

the Elders of the Internet KNOW WHO I AM???

that whole show, from episode one to the last in season four, had me in stitches!

sP

Roy : Has it been completely demagnetized?

Moss : By Stephen Hawking himself...

Roy : Well, if it's OK with The Hawk...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:34 PM

43. Is it homophobic for a man to

 

only want to date women?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:44 PM

45. Come on, generally men only care about themselves

Why would they give a crap what anyone else thinks on this issue?

Too many guys are insecure about their own sexuality and what others would think about them if they did not date or have sex with an "authentic woman." Plus it may be hard to try to recapture the attraction if the mind rejects the transgender woman when he sees that she is not what he expected her to be, since attraction is largely involuntary.

It's much more likely for a woman to date a man that was born female or a woman that was born male as shown when one lesbian woman (Norah Vincent) lived as a man for more than a year and one of the things that she did do was dating women, and then later revealed herself to be a she to many of them, a number of self identified straight women wanted to continue the relationship (you can see the full video here: .) Women seemingly are much more able to separate romantic love from sex/gender than men.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:32 PM

53. Generally, generalizations are offensive

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:00 PM

67. My objection to the idea of the straight male image is its all fabricated

I am a straight man I dated a male to female transgendered individual for a year and a half it had nothing to do with sex as much as we had a really deep love for each other. But than my most recent Ex was a woman who was born a woman. The idea of you have to do certain things and act a certain way to be straight always bothered me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #45)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:24 PM

107. Generally men only care about themselves?

What a bunch of BS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:57 PM

48. Men and women should have the right to decide who they want to date, without accusation.

I don't believe people can control who they are sexually attracted to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:33 PM

56. And even if a "straight" guy was sexually attracted to a transgender woman or a gay male....

There's always the "losing the straight male image" that he's ultimately afraid of losing, including losing the respect that comes with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:49 PM

60. It really none of anyone's business....

....unless that person runs around campaigning for anti-gay and trans laws to cover their own hangups.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:01 PM

62. Oh good grief!



More gobbledygoo generalizations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:24 PM

49. The whole idea that there is something likely wrong with a person who is not attracted to what

someone else thinks they should be attracted to is the essence of all sexual class oppression. It is entering bizarro world to suggest that what someone is or is not sexually attracted to is some form of bigotry or that there is something wrong with that person. Going down this road of this logic - a straight man who would not even consider a relationship with a gay man is probably homophobic - Or for that matter a gay man who would not even consider a relationship with a women is probably a misogynist.

Perhaps a person of any orientation who would only wants to date an educated person who is interested in classical literature and fine art is a bourgeois class oppressor. Sexual orientations of all sorts are not by and large voluntary reflexes. There are already countless examples of people claiming there is something wrong with those who don't have the same sexual interest as them - We certainly don't need any more of that.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:32 PM

54. Right on

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:32 PM

55. Thread win. Drop the mic. Done. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:39 PM

58. Yeah, I agree.

The OP is kind of full of (what seems to me) made up words and fake psych stuff just to make their point.

People should just date whomever they want. It isn't anybody else's concern.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:38 PM

64. It's amazing-- the ease with which some people become the thing they claim to hate.

 

I agree with your post completely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:59 PM

66. What about someone

who states they refuse to date someone "ugly" even though they may share the exact same interests and ideals otherwise? Or someone who states they refuse to date a minority even though they may also share the exact same interests and ideals otherwise?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #66)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:57 AM

93. Perhaps life would be less complicated if similarity of interest and ideals is what sparked sexual

attraction. But that is not necessarily the case. It fact it is probably rarely the case. What sparks interest and ideals do carry elements of choice. What sparks sexual attraction largely involves involuntary and either unconscious or subconscious reflexes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:08 PM

69. That is quite true

People could have bigoted rules - say a white person says they don't date black people. Say the white person actually finds the black person attractive, but won't date them due to their race.

Or if I say I don't date fat men is that unfair? Or if I'm a knock-out and say I don't date any man without a certain amount of money. Even though a poorer man is more attractive.

LOL, once someone tried to set me up but the guy said, "I don't date lawyers."

I guess it falls into the category of "their loss." We just don't need to feel bad due to people who aren't interested for dumb reasons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 08:29 PM

89. Well said.

People can't control what attracts them sexually. They can control how they treat them and if they support equal rights. Mistreating someone because of their orientation what is wrong. Not having an attraction to a particular group/trait is not your fault.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:26 PM

50. No

 

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:31 PM

52. I hate the word 'cis'

I understand the idea of the word and the need for it in some conversations but the word itself is ugly. Sounds like a disease. Ugh.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #52)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:29 AM

102. Me as well, and I essentially dismiss anyone who uses that and similar terms. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:34 PM

57. I had a friend at work ask me about dating a transgender woman

Actually he asked me if "it made him gay" He showed me several pictures to see if if could "tell". I told him that his date was a women, and his comfort level resided in himself, not his date.

And While I think his initial reaction was based on fear, bigotry is nor far behind.

Very good article thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:01 PM

61. Every large city has a few gay/transgender bars where straight men go to hit on transgender women.

Some straight men prefer transgender women. Even married men do sometimes.

You may be dating a post-op transsexual woman who transitioned in her mid teens, and not even know it.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:05 PM

63. Even if the answer was 100% yes, so what?

It's personal preference for dating.

Is it racist if a white gay man doesn't want to date a black gay man? Is it ignorant/transphobic if a straight woman doesn't want to date a transgender male? Is it somehow wrong if a lesbian doesn't want to date a straight man?

Life is hard enough for most people as it is. Date who you want to date.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:54 PM

65. People don't control what they are sexually attracted to.

So it isn't. Transphobic would be opposing the rights of transexuals, no one is obliged to date anyone they don't want to to be a good person.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurska (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:10 PM

70. I think the question is if you found yourself sexually attractive and then after found out

the person was trans, would you not date her?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:14 PM

71. its the same as many other deal breakers, regardless of what they are

 

there are many reasons one may decide not to date, some reasonable some not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loli phabay (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:17 PM

72. so, immediately that would make then unattractive to you. Just you knowing...

I guess that possibly there could be introspection as to why that is and I think that is what the article is getting at.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:24 PM

73. yes, as a casual thing it would be a deal breaker same as a myriad of other things that could come u

 

just not my thing. now if there was a deeper connection then i would not care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loli phabay (Reply #73)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:25 PM

74. You keep saying it's a deal breaker, but why?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:27 PM

75. simply put its not my thing, same as i never dated overweight people or many other groups.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loli phabay (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:32 PM

76. I am not implying anything here... so please don't say that I am, ok.. when you read the below..

If you were physically attracted to her prior and you find out she is trans, and you immediately become unattracted, just because you found out she was trans, can you see the need for further exploration as to why you might feel that way?

Is there something in the culture that makes you feel this way. A self examination of why one would feel this way, is what I think the article was about. It wasn't, as some are saying, calling straight men transphobic. The article asks them to question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #76)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:36 PM

78. nope i wont read anything into it, simply put its just not my thing

 

i have very strict criteria when i dated, anything outside of the parameters was just meh to me. the full transition thing is just not my thing, its really that simple

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 06:01 PM

88. Well I'm a gay guy, however.

There is more to sexual attraction though than just looks. There is a lot of things might kill your sexual interest in someone if you found it out.

I don't think anyone is under any moral obligation to date someone. They can choose whatever they want to for whatever reason.

Personally, I'd be willing to date a FTM, but I'm not everyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurska (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 08:34 PM

90. for me its looks first, i have certain types that i go for

 

if someone is outside that group then i have no interest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boston bean (Reply #70)

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 01:59 AM

118. Wouldn't that mean they had misrepresented themself?? That would be a hugh NONO

in the dating handbook.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:34 PM

77. If someone doesn't date a transgendered person

 

simply because that person is transgendered, then most likely he is transphobic. Just like someone not dating a person because that person is black.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vattel (Reply #77)

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 01:02 AM

116. what if a person wants to have kids someday

can't do that with a transgendered person.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #116)

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 12:08 PM

119. If they would also cancel a date with a woman who couldn't have kids,

 

then no problem. But then they are not refusing to date the transgendered person merely because they are transgendered.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:40 PM

80. I'm guess also Mormon-phobic

 

Yeah, I have a ton of friends who are mormon. I'm not afraid of mormons. I grew up with them. Last thing I'd want to do is to marry into that or handle its baggage on a daily basis. Its not for me.

There are a ton of pretty arbitrary reasons that dictate which women a man may be interested in dating, believe it or not. They don't always make him a bigot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NoOneMan (Reply #80)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:42 PM

81. yup attraction is a wierd thing.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:42 PM

82. I know your title doesn't say so, but the article does. Why does this have to be about men only?

 

This is the classic "crying game" scenario of a straight man with a trans woman.

I'm a trans woman and I never had any interest whatsoever in dating men. Is it transphobic for a lesbian to not date a trans woman or is it transphobic for a straight woman or gay man to not date a trans man?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:46 PM

83. Probably so, but personal attraction and choice

is not what interferes with full human rights for transgendered people. That is the function of legal and social discrimination.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:46 PM

84. I cannot tell whether this is satire...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:54 PM

87. Of course not.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 08:56 PM

91. If you personally don't want to date a trans-person that's your personal choice.

It doesn't make you out to be trans-phobic. Now if you decide to take it upon yourself to inform others that the woman is transgender, that's trans-phobia. If you decide to harass the trans-person by stalking them, trying to get them fired at their job, 'outing' them for using the 'wrong' bathroom, threaten them with bodily harm after you find out that you were attracted to a trans-person before you knew it, then you're a bigot with violent tendencies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to icymist (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:56 AM

94. this, and well put

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to icymist (Reply #91)

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 12:19 PM

120. Well said!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:27 PM

92. That's the first time I heard of the word "transphobic" before. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:21 AM

95. Who has the right to tell another how to follow their heart?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #95)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:41 AM

96. Hay ITW I like your statement but I have to disagree in one small but crucial point...

In many ways our parents have said right. Or to put it more accurately they take the right. Which relates to the blank page quote you posted. The world view we have by the time we are 18 or so is very much determined by the experiences we had as a child. Growing up our parents or those who helped to look after us are very much responsible for writing the first few paragraphs of said story. If we are lucky they teach us how to use the pencil to write our own story. If we are unlucky they teach us there is only one way to write the story, their way. Or if not their parents then some experience horrible hardships and crimes which convince them there is only one story.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Locut0s (Reply #96)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:52 AM

97. My parents were so wrong about many things.

I try to look at what is in someone's heart.

By the time I was 15, I spent as much time as possible in the real world of Atlanta Georgia in the '60s.
My second stepmother tried to change who I was becoming to no avail.
My husband was so afraid that someone would think he was gay that he added little letters (wife says) to my bumper sticker when he was stuck driving my car.

I cannot change those around me except by my example. At one time most of my friends were males ... gays, transgender and straight men.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #97)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:05 AM

99. You are lucky to be as strong willed and spirited as you are...



Many are simply bent by their parents will and beliefs. Certainly there are many who rebel and become totally different people, usually for the better. But I suspect many of the most closed minded, most homophobic, racist of people, well their apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #95)

Tue Dec 31, 2013, 02:26 PM

114. Pencil??

I've always thought we were writing with a pen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:56 AM

98. A lot of women won't date short men. Isn't that discriminatory?

What about men who won't date overweight women? Or men who won't date legless women?

Aren't these all discriminatory?

What if the man eventually wants to have kids? Is that discriminatory against sterile women?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:20 AM

101. Dating should be an individualized decision.

To exclude a trans woman from consideration just because she is trans would be just as ignorant as to exclude black women, Jewish women, etc. just because of a random classification.

We are all people, all humans, and any relationship can work if we want it to. Just ask my friends who are an opposite-sex gay married couple.

Yes, you read that right. A gay male and a lesbian female. Married. And a cuter couple you will never see.

That is an example of why category-based elimination decisions can be bad for one's love life. And of why an open mind/heart can lead to awesomeness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:23 PM

106. I highly recommend this thought provoking film ~ "Soldier's Girl".

I got it from netflix, and watched it just last week. It's a feature film, based on a true story, and it explores the subject brought up in the OP to some degree.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:27 PM

108. Nobody gets to tell you whom you have to find attractive.

 

If it hurts somebody's feelings that you don't find them attractive, well, such is life. But nobody has a claim on your affections.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 07:16 PM

110. Pre-op or post-op? Sorry to be so crude but that is important. I know some never get the surgery

and there's nothing wrong with that, but what it comes down to is I don't think I could be sexually interested in someone with a penis. I'm just not wired that way, so to speak - probably about as close to a 0 on the Kinsey Scale as anyone could be.

On the other hand, there are trans women who happen to be quite attractive - no matter what bigoted bullshit anybody spews - so I can't entirely preclude the possibility that I could wind up interested in, or even dating, one. If I'm being perfectly honest, and please don't judge me, the "man-made vagina" (I don't know of a more delicate way to put it) aspect would probably weird me out a bit, whereas the "used to be a dude" aspect probably wouldn't - I accept that a woman is a woman, "natural-born" or not.

I'm not attracted to Buck Angel either, for the record. I've just never found the male body sexually appealing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 07:39 PM

111. Didn't the Kinks write a hit song about this a long time ago? Like 43 years ago?

Well I'm not the world's most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Lola la-la-la-la Lola
Well I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh my Lola la-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola

Well we drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked me up and sat me on her knee
And said dear boy won't you come home with me
Well I'm not the world's most passionate guy
But when I looked in her eyes well I almost fell for my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola
Lola la-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola
I pushed her away
I walked to the door
I fell to the floor
I got down on my knees
Then I looked at her and she at me

Well that's the way that I want it to stay
And I always want it to be that way for my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola
La-la-la-la Lola

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2013, 02:26 PM

113. People can date who they want.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Dec 31, 2013, 03:06 PM

115. Given how ignorant and narrow-minded most people are, I say yes. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread