I love the subtle defense posts for Old Man Duck guy popping up here at DU...

[trumad]

You know ---the ones pointing out what Liberals have said in the past.

Let's make something clear to our troll friends. The difference between us and you troll winger morans is---- when one of our guys fucks up--- we go after them hard. A turd is a turd.

When one of your guys fucks up, you don't say shit.

nuff said.

[Pholus]

1. A&E couldn't fire him without a way he violated a contract.

And certainly, MY employers wouldn't tolerate me openly tarnishing their brand.

[sharp_stick]

4. Depends if he's considered an employee in LA

if A&E has him employed in LA they can fire him for whatever the hell they want. It's a "right to work" State.

In any case I'm sure they have him in a pretty tight contract.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. I think you're confusing ...

"Right to Work" (i.e., the ability to work in a unionized setting without having to join a union, but are allowed to get the union-negotiated benefits ... IOW, to leech of the work of others) and "At Will" employment (where one can quit or be fired for any reason, or no reason, so long as it is not an unlawful reason).

But that said, where there is an employment contract, "At Will" status is irrelevant.

[Iris]

74. "leech of(f) the work of orders" Really?

Notice how now that unions have been busted, we no longer have much of a middle class anymore?

[blueridge3210]

78. I think you misread the post.

The poster's point is those who work in a "union shop" but don't join the union get the benefits without paying dues which is allowed in a Right to Work state.

[Iris]

86. Oops! that's what I get for reading DU when I have insomnia

I guess I'm feeling overly defensive because of all the manufactured controversy.

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. Not a problem n/t

[stevenleser]

6. Media contracts for shows and talent always contain umpteen "out" clauses.

If they want to get you off the air and end your contract early, there are always clauses in the contract where they can do it.

[Pholus]

7. Sounds like you probably need to keep them happy then, huh.

This was about a very lucrative contract voluntarily tossed away. I have more sympathy for Walmart workers than this clown. They aren't rich enough to affort the luxury of saying what they want to say.

[stevenleser]

11. That's it in a nutshell, yes. And like you, I do not feel sorry for this guy. nt

[truebluegreen]

15. They probably are happy:

Free publicity, and an outpouring of support from their target audience. As Jon Stewart said, A&E just lost their gay and black audience....

[Pholus]

22. Any reality star knows controversy = larger paycheck

According to Wikipedia, 10% decline in audience from Seasons 3 to 4 finale this year...though the premier had been up by 30%.

http://wikipedia.sfstate.us/Duck_Dynasty#Seasonal_ratings

Possibly time to shake it up?

[LovingA2andMI]

69. Can't speak for the LGBT community but....

I can speak on behalf of other African-Americans I know. And trust me, NONE of them watched Duck Dynasty before Phil Robertson's comment and won't be watching the Duckers since his comment.

Scandal, yes. Duck Dynasty, hell no.

[7962]

87. Love Scandal. Nothings better than not knowing whats coming next. nt

[truebluegreen]

92. I know--I was being sarcastic.

They've "lost" an audience they never had, or wanted.

[Fla Dem]

34. Not fired yet. Put on suspension.

This leaves an out for A&E to appear to have punished him and then bring him back. This has all been a big publicity show.

[Pholus]

36. Kind of a form of Duck Twerking, as it were...

Think you've hit it on the head.

[Half-Century Man]

65. Ugh...why for that image?

This will take a severe sugar/alcohol binge to erase. Both the twerking waterfowl and the twerking camouflaged old fake biker.

[MADem]

52. The latest season of the show--with the Happy Hater front and center--is already recorded and about

to be shown on TV.

So people who are interested will be able to see a whole series of that dorky shitbird.

[merrily]

71. He probably did violate his contract, just as Baldwin did.

Contracts in the entertainment field tend to have clauses that cover these situations, going way back to the days when people in show business would disassociate themselves from people who had affairs, like Ingrid Bergman. Probably goes back before her, but she is the first one I heard about.

It's also why some unmarried actresses in her era "adopted" a baby and raised him or her as single mothers, for which they got praise from the public, as opposed to a pink slip from the studio for getting "knocked up."

[snooper2]

2. I am proud to say I've never watched that show...

I didn't even know what was going on till I heard something about it on the Today show yesterday morning


Nice to be offline and hanging with family out of town

[libtodeath]

3. Repukes dont just stay quiet they cheer the hate and bigotry.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

27. yep.

I've never seen this show, by the way. Boo hoo.

It's enough to see what's going on through info shared here.

[yuiyoshida]

73. I have never seen it either...

Not saying I am shocked though.

[Aristus]

5. Actually,

they do say shit. And nothing but shit...

You're right; we call out our own; it's what makes us better than them...

[In_The_Wind]

13. Yup!

[Aristus]

14. Good morning!

[In_The_Wind]

20. G'morning to you too.

[Aristus]

39. Yeah, it's snowing here in the PNW!

I've seen two patients so far this morning.

People are looking out their windows at the snow and thinking: "Y'know, I don't feel so bad after all!..."

[In_The_Wind]

44. It's really better that they stayed home.

[Aristus]

46. What a beautiful image. Thank you.

Yeah, it would be bad if someone got into a car wreck just to have their common cold evaluated.

[rhett o rick]

8. They may not "say shit" but they certainly throw shit. nm

[Iggo]

9. THAT's the FACT, JACK!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

10. It's an orchestrated effort. They are also trying to

Incite DU'ers and alert so they can get hides up to 5 and above.

[In_The_Wind]

45. I knew there was a plot somewhere.

[Squinch]

48. Holy crap! What is that photo from?

[In_The_Wind]

54. It's from "Pan's Labyrinth".

[Squinch]

55. Blaaaah! I'm going to have nightmares!

[In_The_Wind]

58. With tomorrow's dawn

comes the longest night of the winter.



Sleep well, snuggled safely in your bed where nothing can harm you, Squinch.

[Squinch]

83. Awwwwww! You made me smile! Have a happy Solstice!

[Go Vols]

12. The old duck guy

said in July he wouldn't be with the show much longer.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/duck-dynastys-phil-robertson-i-wont-do-the-show-much-longer-2013267


I have watched about 10 minutes of this show, and it hit me as one of the shows that make people in the South look more stupid than they really are.

[mercuryblues]

16. And today

the family is saying they can't do the show without him. I actually think the DD actors have planned this. they want out of their contract for a more lucrative deal with another network.

[DeschutesRiver]

32. Thanks for that. So this entire controversy is fake.

I saw the old 2010 clip of Phil gay bashing at Beran Bible Church and wondered how A&E had missed that. And how the family could have the balls to say Phil would never incite hatred, when they knew he did inflammatory incitement on a regular basis, and in churches, no less.

Wonder why Phil and his family chose to leave the network in this vile fashion?

[arcane1]

38. Well there you have it. This is all part of the show.

As well as some red meat for teabaggers.

[7962]

89. I'd have to disagree...ever seen 'Honey Boo Boo"? Good lord.

While I've only seen a couple episodes of both, DD never hides the fact that they went to college and actually know business. Heck, the old guy Phil could've played pro football after college. Terry Bradshaw was HIS backup QB.
The other show is pretty much "lets see how stupid we can make them look". The answer is, pretty damn stupid!!

[kentuck]

17. What about Dan Rather? Bill Maher? Martin Bashir? Helen Thomas?

Who stood up to defend their free speech??

Fucking hypocrites!!!

[libdem4life]

95. ... Hilary Rosen

[Sheldon Cooper]

18. Subtle?

Ha! They couldn't be more obvious.

[Squinch]

49. Exactly. Overt, openly stated support for bigotry, homophobia and sexism.

Not DU's proudest moment. And that's saying something.

[WinkyDink]

19. More to the point: R-Wers are the FIRST to shout "J'accuse!" about a Democrat. Then they take

umbrage if one subsequently shows them their defensive hypocrisy when one of theirs errs.

IOW: The concept of "Either both are right, or both are wrong" escapes them.

[heaven05]

23. +1000

[BlancheSplanchnik]

24. in repuke world, you can *tarnish* your own brand as much as you want

Their ma$$ter$ just keep on pouring money into their offensive offense.

Make the lies big, say 'em loud and say 'em often. To paraphrase Goering. (Or was it Goebbels who said that?)

[steve2470]

42. Hitler first, then Goebbels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie

[BlancheSplanchnik]

47. oh thanks!

It's nice to hang out with smart people.

[ut oh]

25. Actually they do say shit...

....to back up the turd

[Zorra]

26. yeh, huh?

[Kingofalldems]

28. Alec Baldwin was fired and no one here compained that I know of.

Oops, one of Old Man Ducks DU pals calls him by his first name--Phil.

[kcr]

29. Subtle and not so subtle

That false equivalency bs is so transparent.

[grahamhgreen]

30. PR firms. They post on sites like this all the time.... Need a job?

[Marr]

31. I've noticed something about his defenders.

They aren't willing to defend his comments on gays or Jim Crow laws. They *only* want to talk about the very very specific issue of whether or not A&E has the right to fire him. That's the only angle that lets them frame themselves as victims instead of bullies and bigots. Ask them what they think of his actual comments and watch them hem and haw and try to change the subject.

When Bill Maher was dropped from cable for saying something unpopular, he stood by it, and so did the people who agreed with him, for the most part. I agreed with him. I remember having arguments at the time with people on the subject, and the argument didn't center around some twisted contract question-- we talked about the actual comments.

These bigot defenders won't do that.

[Pholus]

35. They don't even have an argument!

You get fired if your contract allows it and you tick off your bosses.

But, the more this plays, the more obvious that it was a way of bolstering ratings.

It clicked when I got passed the "Poor Phil but it's okay for Miley" bit. I realized that old
Phil and Miley do the same business, so of course the same tactics work.

Shock em, make a controversy, and watch the cash roll in.

[Marr]

37. Yep-- just more marketing bullshit.

I had never uttered a word about "Duck Dynasty" in my life, nor watched the show. But half of yesterday was filled with arguments on this asinine drivel and I'm almost ashamed to admit I contributed to it.

Marketing bullshit. Clever, effective, marketing bullshit.

[RKP5637]

82. Yep, point in case, I didn't even know who they were until all of this

happened. If I had by chance clicked on them, I would have just moved on seeing it as another crap reality show. ... not that I would watch now, but that they got a lot of publicity out of this. Now, some other outfit will probably pick them up if legally possible, contracts and all ...

[JI7]

53. how about the stupid first amendment argument

[Rex]

59. Also they keep saying this is about his 1st amendment rights

when clearly this is about him working for a private corporation and saying some incredibly offensive things. A lot of them keep droning on about the 1st and his rights...

[Iris]

75. because they're "entrepreneurs"

If there's more money to be made elsewhere, why not?

[countryjake]

76. Actually, many do, saying things like they see no conflict...

with their moral values in what he has said. That way they can frame his firing as an attack on their religion and thump even harder on the bibles as "persecuted" christians.

[displacedtexan]

33. So true!

My favorites are the bigots who accuse us of bigotry when we call them bigots.

As for reality "stars": zoo animals don't know they're in cages for our amusement. Why would these fame whores believe they are any different?

[Lancero]

40. Yeah, bullshit.

What was it that we said about Bashirs comments to Palin?

Ah yes.

"Way to go!"
"100% Correct!"
"Tell it to em Bashir!"

And when he got the can, we raised la shitstorm about it.

Our guy fucked up, and we flocked to praise and defend him.

So no, we are not so diffrient. We just defend different things.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

51. Bahahaha! Right. "our guy".

[DonViejo]

57. I don't think "we" unanimously said much...

some of us may have made statements defending Bashir, some of us may have thought Bashir's comment was not admirable, others of us may not have wanted/or cared about the story at all, for whatever reason. Your "we" paints with a broad brush, revealing much about you Lancero. Enjoy your stay.

[uponit7771]

61. Bashir said something supremacist about Palin? Really, you're attempting to compare the two? tia

[Atman]

81. Bashir said Palin is a dunce. She is.

He didn't mock her race or her sexuality. I guess he offended stupid people everywhere. All of them watching a political commentary show instead of fake duck hunters.

[spanone]

41. and some not so subtle. the trolls are working hard today.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

50. Yes

[cry baby]

43. Thank you, couldn't have been stated better! nt

[Lint Head]

56. I say fire with fire. We "do" need to declare a psychological war on right wing personalities.

Let it escalate. It's time to bring the last vestiges of bigotry and racism out into the open so it can be marginalized never again to see 50% of the people agreeing with Old Daddy "Candidate for the KKK" Duck.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/19/the-right-s-duck-dynasty-hypocrisy.html

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/12/19/duck-dynasty-free-speech-and-hypocrisy-gays-phil-robertson-palin/

[sir pball]

60. I'm sure some of y'all have been to Monroe

And, having been, what surprises me the most about this is the...well, surprise. Did anybody think Mr. Phil *didn't* feel like this about gays and blacks?

I'm not defending him in the least (well...I do support his right to publicly say whatever he wants, but A&E can also fire him should they wish), just saying that even my hyper-liberal self-described "flamingly gay" LA native law student friend is like "Phil hates gays, this is news?"

[sendero]

88. Once again I feel compelled to point out..

... that his racist comments were much more offensive (to me anyway) than his anti-gay crap. Everyone is trying hard to forget what he said about slavery.

[BootinUp]

62. Why even get worked up over it

Doesn't NEED to be said its so freakin obvious.

[arcane1]

63. The duck-fuckers will eventually give up and fade away

[davidthegnome]

64. I have never seen this show.

Now the more I read about it, the less I want to. In a way it's a sign of America's skewed priorities. One asshole saying this shit is such a huge deal now? All over the media, all over DU... why the fuck is this breaking news? Someone explain it to me. Did the guy say something so terrible that it has never before been said by one of the multitude of conservative asshats that fill the media, the radio, the internet... I really do not get it.

As I don't really know much about what he said or what happened, I wasn't inclined to give a damn until I started seeing it everywhere I bother going on the internet. Why are we freaking out about THIS particular idiot?

[MindMover]

66. Not only do they not say shit ... they smell it and say that smells great, lets try some more ....

[Mopar151]

67. Well - here I am.

Yes, I have watched most of the Duck Dynasty shows - Mrs. Mopar thinks it's "cute". As several of her other viewing choices include such crap as "The Witches of East End" and the Lifetime soapy Xmas movies, I simply do not see Duck Dynasty as evil incarnate - or particularly bad TV.

But then, I'm crazy by the standards of most Americans. I despise lying in general, don't find backstabbing, manipulation, humiliation, or malignant capitalisim even remotely amusing. So, about 6/10 sitcoms are unwatchable for me, and about the same proportion of reality TV. My favorite reality shows were Monster Gararge and American Loggers - where smart, hardworking people did amazing stuff, and the stars of the show sought the best outcomes, not the most conflict and drama. Whiny, useless/egotistical maggots get straightened out, or shown the door. "Survivor", IMHO, is a showcase for sociopaths.

Sadly, a lot of TV has a very negative message for folks like me. "Home Improvement", for example - I should love that, should'nt I? - all those tools and stuff? Then why did I get the feeling that the main point of the show was that people (particularly men) who have skills and knowledge, and can really make things, are inferior to passive-agressive women. Oh, yes - and we stupid men should never fix anything, that's what shopping is for.

So, Phil Robertson is 10 times worse than Donald Trump how?

[LovingA2andMI]

70. He's in the same league as Donald Trump...

Phil:

According to Robertson, growing up in those Louisiana backwoods in the pre-civil rights era was not bad for black people.

“I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person," Robertson is quoted in GQ. "Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field.... They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!... Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/19/phil-robertson-black-people_n_4473474.html

Donald Trump via Twitter:

"According to Bill O'Reilly, 80% of all the shootings in New York City are blacks-if you add Hispanics, that figure goes to 98%. 1% white."

"Sadly, the overwhelming amount of violent crime in our major cities is committed by blacks and hispanics-a tough subject-must be discussed."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/05/donald-trump-blames-crime_n_3392535.html

So no, there is no difference between Donald Trump and Phil Robertson. Also, by the way, as a African-American, I would not spend five minutes before or after his comments watching Robertson's show. The History Channel is more interesting entertainment.

[LeftyMom]

77. If the bigotry doesn't bother you, how about the fact that it's yuppies in redneck drag?

Pictures are all over the internet of what those guys look like out of costume, and it's all clean cheeks, khaki and golf cleats, no beards or camo to be seen.

In short, they're feigning working class attributes to make money off of people like you, based on the assumption that you're not smart enough to figure it out. They're Lamar Alexander's flannel campaign shirt expanded into a marketing juggernaut.

Yes, TV is frequently shitty to working class people, when they're visible at all. But making working class heroes out of people who aren't is only making that problem worse. If you want to make a class issue out of it, how about showing solidarity for all of the working class black southerners the man said such awful, lying things about?

But what do I know? I'm just an uppity bitch who knows how to fix shit.

[NealK]

79. +1000!

[Mopar151]

84. Who makes the duck calls?

Who invented the duck calls? " Pictures all over the net don't "prove" a damm thing - beards like those don't grow overnight, and what if they are marketing? "Feigning working class attributes"??? I take it you are not very familiar with the actual show, or hunting, or producing a unique product under the guidance of a freshly minted business school graduate (like Willie) - who may decide to motivate you by throwing out your lunch, closing the break room, or getting rid of all the chairs in assembly.
While I'm at it -People like me, not smart enough to figure out marketing? Hell-o... Lamar Alexander's flannel shirt deflated in seconds, when folks in New Hampshire saw a city boy dumb enough to wear wool flannel in July. I'm sure the Robertsons have made less than a nickel off of me, ever - I certainly don't need to license my beard from them.

Look - if you really want to understand niche marketing, and the whole concept of "gear queer", I would reccomend William Gibson's book "Zero History" - You'll learn a lot about fashion and denim, as well.

As for the 3rd paragraph - Ive been in the mirror of that situation - rooming with a black family in lily-white NH. It's about being accepted by folks with the grace to make the best of their situation? What are your qualifications for a working class hero, anyway? For me, it has a lot to do with being able to really make or do things, and not just selling stuff and manipulating people. Like taking your grandson out and fishing a banquet from the swamp, or teaching your texting-obsessed granddaughter how to shoot skeet.

[LeftyMom]

85. Did you actually see what he said about black people? Go read it and come back.

Because 'I like people who work with their hands and did I mention I once lived with some black people' are totally not acceptable reasons to excuse saying that black people were totally happy and pious and never complained to white guys or sang the blues before civil rights and welfare ruined them, which is what he said.

Personally my People Doing Something Useful on TV tastes run more to that Canadian contractor on HGTV whose name escapes me because it's 5 am, but if I found out tomorrow that he's a terrible bigoted person I'd quit watching and I wouldn't make excuses for him.

[Mopar151]

93. Yes, I did read it, days ago

Sorry if I don't meet your standards for political purity - apparently, I'm too busy trying to get along with people. And you're projecting a good deal of what you think you read. Seriously. Were you there, hoeing cotton in Louisana? Phil did not use the words you did - it's that simple. If you seperate Phil's experience from his opinion (use a paper & pencil if you have to - diagram the friggin' sentences!) . I think Phil got the facts right, as he saw them - his opinion is full of shit, but it is shared by rather a lot of black people. Look up Chris Rock on You Toob, you don't beleive me.

The Canadian dude is Mike Holmes, and he is the real deal - but if you don't like the lingere' choices of the ladies on the crew, who are curvy and smokin' hot (including Mike's daughters), feel free to quit.

[LeftyMom]

94. Wait, you think what he said was right?

"I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' -- not a word!" he said. "Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."

[Mopar151]

97. As I said, you were not there.

And the qualifying statement re: white trash keeps being omitted

Could Phil's contemporaries have had the grace and vision to know the difference between their fellow sufferer's under Jim Crow , and the man that works for Mistah Charley? Oppression like that is a lot more subtle - and the folks who understand it arent't apt to go on about it to the kid from down the road, not with work to be done and a crop to get in.

Read up on the history of the Irish immigrants in Louisiana - cheaper than a slave can be a very hard way to go.

[Paladin]

91. +10,000. Thank you. (nt)

[calimary]

68. This. ^^^

"When one of your guys fucks up, you don't say shit."

[merrily]

72. People defending homophobic bigotry and racial bigotry need to STFU.

[NealK]

80. K&R n/t

[savalez]

96. Wait a minute!

When one of your guys fucks up, you don't say shit.

Yes they do! The defend and celebrate him and ask him to speak at kook conventions.