Alright, I kind of went at it w/ a conservative today.

[Narkos]

I've been friends with this person for years via our children's playgroup. Currently she receives free health care from the government at a local military hospital and this is what she wrote:

"If anyone thinks that government health care is going to be great here's a little taste for you. I just spent 20 minutes on the phone TRYING to book an eye exam. End result was the ONLY available appt. is ************. If that doesn't work for me I am to call a different number to try to get a waiver to be seen elsewhere! This is for just an eye exam!! Scary."

I'm a clinician at this hospital, so this is what I wrote back:

"I know that it is sometimes fun to bash government health care, but as a physician at the institution you are criticizing, I think this might be an instructive moment.

You receive free health care from the government. If you don't like what the goverment offers, you are free to obtain private health insurance on your own. I suspect you won't or can't do that because it is hugely expensive...around $15K/yr for a family of four.

But since you are taking advantage of what the government offers, you will not be seen when it is convenient for you. That's the price you pay when you take advantage of the incredible offer of free health care. While waiting for a month for an elective eye exam may seem inconvenient, the system is not designed for your personal convenience. It is designed to take care of as many soldiers and their families on a constrained budget. If you would like the Military Health Care system to be more convenient, you can write your congressperson and ask them to increase funding for military hospitals so that they can have shorter wait times. In this climate, I'm doubtful anyone would take you seriously.

The one last thing I would like to say is that I take offense at the notion that because you have to wait a little longer for an elective visit that this is somehow "scary", as if it has anything to do with the quality of care provided by *******. Nothing could be further from the truth, and you should know this from personal experience.

Anyways, I wish you would realize that you have friends that work at ******, and are a little hurt that you would use Facebook to malign the place we work at and dedicate our lives to."

So, did I take it too far? I'm feeling a little nervous about it.

[zipplewrath]

1. too far????

You let them off way easy.

[Narkos]

4. Thanks....still a little nervous though! n/t

[CAPHAVOC]

29. BS...Medicare works

Original medicare A and B. Not all this other crapola. Advantage, Managed care, HMO, PHOOEY!

[tabatha]

2. Nope. It is good and accurate.

[lsewpershad]

49. +1

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I'd say you did it just right...not too far at all.

You very calmly pointed out the facts, and didn't exaggerate.

Well done!

[Narkos]

5. Thank you Peggy. n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

98. ...

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. Too far? No. It's f'ing awesome. n/t

[Narkos]

7. LOL! Thank you! n/t

[tinymontgomery]

8. Nice way to let them know

retired military here and medical is cheap and it also is set up for the service member as you mentioned. Wait till she is in a retired status (if they go that long) and watch what the DOD is trying to do to us know.

[Narkos]

35. I know that they are talking about raising Tricare fees

But I hope it is based on some kind progressive income scale

[pinboy3niner]

9. Brava!

That is an excellent response.

[Narkos]

34. Thank you sir!

[warrior1]

10. sounded perfect.

[Aerows]

11. I have private insurance coverage and couldn't book an eye examine

If people think that your savior is private insurance, you are latching onto a ship that would rather drown you than save you if you mention you have an issue. Luckily, I could pay for having an eye infection. It ended up costing $700, my insurance didn't pay for it, though it was a bacterial infection, and I am more than willing to prove it. In the end, it cost less to get my eye to stop hurting.

If I was completely broke, I wouldn't have been able to go to work, and even now,I wonder about recourse. I literally HAD to see the eye doctor.

[newspeak]

148. thank you!!!

I take my aunt and my MIL (when she needs me) to the doctor and eye care. Their appointments are usually three weeks to a month and a half out. That's "private" health care. I don't know what she's talking about.

[Narkos]

153. I told her that live in the private health care arena

is not going to be everything she thinks it will be. I don't know if she realizes that yet. Hopefully, I may have opened her eyes a bit.

[calimary]

12. NO! You did NOT take it too far!

You handled it with grace and deft use of language, explaining things simply and eloquently. VERY nice touch, reminding her that - "This is FREE health care provided by the government that has a lot of people to help, and decreasing amounts of money to fund that magnitude of need. WTF were you expecting? Two Cadillacs?"

Well done!!!

[Narkos]

18. Thanks! You made me giggle! N/t

[catrose]

13. Spot on! <eom>

[immoderate]

14. Depends on what happens when "it goes in the one ear..."

You did your part just fine.


---imm

[cbayer]

15. Excellent and not too far at all, imo.

[mazzarro]

16. Not far enough IMO

BTW have received any response?

[Narkos]

20. Yeah, she private messaged me

And said something to the effect of "I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just wanted people to realize that this is what will happen when the government takes over".

[all american girl]

25. Government take over lolololol

I think if she has to pay for her own, she will want to "government takeover" back...how old is she? I think she needs to look outside the military bubble...

[Narkos]

27. Yeah, she doesn't realize

howrealize how good she's got it

[treestar]

46. What is hilarious about that is when it comes to the military, does she expect any other than the

government to "take over?" by definition that's pretty much the provider in that scenario.

[all american girl]

33. "Governmant take over" that made me laugh

She needs to look outside the military bubble, than she will thank her luck stars....sometimes military people have no idea what it's like. We lived for 2 years at a remote location...that only means that we didn't have a clinic or hospital. Boy, my eyes were opened up...co-pays (I won't complain-only $3.00 ), deductibles, but my only cost $32.00 to have I will take "government take over" it hasn't too bad for my family

[CJCRANE]

36. That's like saying "I had to WAIT while they cooked my FREE LUNCH".

She has three options IMO:

1) Go without
2) Pay for it herself
3) Accept the free healthcare and be grateful

[Narkos]

51. Hahaha! I wish I could go back in time

And use that line!!!

[LuckyLib]

50. Is she a military dependent? The government "took over" when her

significant other decided to enlist. No one forces anyone to sign on to the military "government" community where benefits, housing, food, and retirement are subsidized by our community of taxpayers. The basic failure to understand who pays for this (WE are the government) astounds me.

Your response was wonderful. Educating one person at a time. You did well!

[Narkos]

87. Yeah, she's a dependent who has actually used WIC before when they

were not active duty at the time....she doesn't understand that she used to be on welfare!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

54. My brother needing an eye exam is with Kaiser and he got an appt for a misdiagnosis.

His eye is swollen shut and he has serious issues that weren't detected. Ask her how great would that be if she waited, paid, and didn't get needed care anyway? She should be so grateful.

[SemperEadem]

99. with her pre-existing condition,

(the reason for the eye exam will be called a pre-existing condition) there is no private insurer that's going to insure her that won't require her being dead broke in the process.

If government didn't get involved, she wouldnt' even have insurance.

Is she military, or a mooch?

[Narkos]

100. I don't think she thinks of herself as a mooch

although if you look at her situation, she certainly is a mooch. As I stated before, her husband can't get a good paying job on the outside, so they remain on active duty orders so they can get health benefits. The cognitive dissonance is almost unbelievable.

[SemperEadem]

159. for real

you know, if one outlined her very situation to her and asked her if that person was a mooch and she mostly likely would say "Yes", that's when one should say "I was describing you..." But because it's her, it's ok for her to mooch off of the federal government when it suits her instead of going without and picking herself up by her bootstraps; but it's not ok for others.

But you handled the letter quite well... I wouldn't have that tact you've demonstrated, lol.

[onlyadream]

115. We have private insurance

And my endocrinologist is booked for 3 to 4 months. It has nothing to do with insurance it's supply and demand. I also just paid $65 for an antibiotic for my daughter's ear infection. Would this woman like to switch? My deductible is $3500.

[Skittles]

131. I'll translate

"I wanted to bash government health care because that is the fashionable thing conservatives do but it embarrasses me when someone contronts me with FACTS"

[rrHeretic]

135. So

after you'd explained to her how wrong she was she still responds with the same mantra about 'wanting to tell people what will happen if the gov takes over'.

In other words, you wasted your time even trying to talk to her. I've stopped talking to 'them' years ago and feel alot better for it. They are locked in cement and will never change their minds. You have a better chance convincing a rock or piece of dirt to change than you do with those who refuse to think.

[druidqueen]

141. Try using Anthem BC/BS for an eye exam

My boss pays my entire premium for health insurance ($1400/month & that's ONLY me....no dependents). I went for my routine eye exam (I've been wearing glasses since I have been 15) assuming I would only have to pay my $10 co-pay (as did the eye doctor's office). Anthem refused to pay. When I called I was told that an eye exam was "not a medical necessity". YIPES!!!

I have my Irish citizenship & as soon as I sell my house I am off to the Emerald Isle.

[whathehell]

143. I don't know how, or if, you responded to that

but you might tell her that without "the government taking over"

at least 16,000 people a year die because they have no health insurance.

[Narkos]

152. Good point. Didn't want to overload her too much data. n/t

[Aerows]

17. I also had some issues from recalled contact lenses

I couldn't afford to be off work. They injured my eyes, not permanently, but painfully, and I had to go through eye doctors getting that fixed including the eye infection it caused.

[Xyzse]

19. My Thanks

That was actually very instructional, I didn't know how that worked, and I appreciate input from those in the know.

[B Calm]

21. Did she say you take politics to seriously?

That's their only comeback when they lost the argument that they started. You deal in facts and they deal in beliefs, and it's pretty damn hard to convince the wilfully ignorant. But anyways, thanks for trying. .

[Zalatix]

22. No. No. No. Not just no, but HELL no, you didn't take things too far.

[Narkos]

24. Thanks! I'm starting to feel better

About this. Sometimes I think you have take this kind of ignorance on publicly.

[all american girl]

23. Thak you....that was awesome

My hubby is in the Army, so I have been thru all this...and sometimes it is frustrating. In the past, the retirees were choking up the system. I have found that things are so much better than it was 20 years ago. I have always been grateful that I have good health care and I don't have to pay for it. When the Rush thing first happened, a friend said that she didn't like being called a slut, but that the government shouldn't pay for it (of course I set her straight on that), but I just shook my head thinking, who do you think pays for yours.

I don't think you took it too far, but I'm a happy clappy liberal

[Narkos]

26. I agree that is is getting better

because now the Command is now holding clinics accountable for ensuring access to care within a reasonable time frame.

[barbtries]

28. i don't think you did.

share her reaction please - hopefully she takes it instructively and is properly chastised. she can also walk into a lens crafter and, for a price, pay herself to have her eyes examined. nothing scary about it.

[Narkos]

30. She said she wasn't trying to offend anyone

But she wanted to warn people how terrible things will for health care if the government takes over. A lot of crickets since posted that though.

[ejpoeta]

47. the non apology apology. typical.

my SIL's family member wrote on their facebook wall about people gaming the welfare system. she replied that that was what they were doing themselves and they haven't talked to her since. guess that hit a nerve. they weren't at my nephew's bday party. It was sad to think that jimmy was hurt by this.

[Dan]

31. Outstanding!!!!!

[surfdog]

32. Yeah you took it too far

You called the hypocritical scumbag Republican a friend

Why associate with massive hypocrites like that ?

Just be done with it

[GoneOffShore]

63. Is "in your face" confrontation the only way to go then?

One sometimes associates with people for other reasons than their political stance - which can sometimes be changed with facts, understanding and a certain nicety of expression.

You might try it sometime.

[crim son]

78. It strikes me that this is exactly what the OP describes -

a rational, fact-based response. What's the problem?

[GoneOffShore]

81. I had no problem with the OP and her response.

I wasn't replying to her.

[The Doctor.]

37. Not far enought. n/t

[babylonsister]

38. Too far? You were nothing but respectful when you could have

flown off the handle. I think your response was just about perfect!

[JoePhilly]

39. Well done.

[xchrom]

40. I don't have government health care & I still have to wait

For an appointment.

And if I can't get close to what I want, the receptionist has to go through the calendar til I say bingo.

Who doesn't have to wait?

[Narkos]

88. I know, there is this false notion that private means

RIGHT NOW. Of course, it rarely works that way, unless you are wealthy enough for concierge medicine.

[xchrom]

96. It's just so dumb - let's say I go see the DR. & I have some issue

That he wants to see me again in 90 days.
Not unusual.

So I go to make me appointment-- well I have Tuesday's & Wednesday's to see the Dr.

I need a morning appointment - cause god knows - the later in the day the longer the wait.

The receptionist says - well the 1st I can give you is + 30 for a morning appointment - that's what I take.

& the Dr. Never says boo.

[treestar]

41. No, you calmly made a very good point

That's actually to the point and realistic and points out to her how she is thinking of her self first and not even thinking about the people she knows that work there.

[onethatcares]

42. you did very well.

It is better to remain calm and to the point. You get large from me. I could not have been so

nice.

BTW thanks for treating our soldiers.

[Narkos]

45. Thank you!

[avebury]

43. No you did not go too far. You stuck to the facts in a non-aggressive manner.

If your "friend" had taken offense I would not be all that concerned. I live in an extremely red state where there are way too many people who are racist, ignorant, and short sighted. I finally decided that life is just too short to waste any of my personal time with people like that so I don't. It does wonders for helping to keep your blood pressure and stress levels down.

[gratuitous]

48. Seems cogent and to the point

The only thing I would add would be, "By the way, if more eye clinics participated in a single payer government system, you'd have all kinds of choices, and could probably get a nearly immediate appointment for your elective exam, with lower premiums and better delivery of services. Like how Social Security benefits are so dependably deposited every month into the accounts of millions of people all over the country."

[GoneOffShore]

56. Excellent!

[renate]

67. true dat

Great point!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

52. Does a "waiver" mean you opt out? "If that doesn't work for me I am to call a different . . . "

. . . number to try to get a waiver to be seen elsewhere"

If it means, going elsewhere in order to be seen sooner, what's the beef?

[Narkos]

53. If she can't be seen within a reasonable time frame

she can referred to the network to be seen by a civilian provider. Of course, the government will pay for that.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

109. So it's still paid for by the govt. I wonder if she's ever dealt with private insurance....

I'm convinced that those making more than $100,000 don't even have health insurance. Some doctors in our ritzier neighborhoods don't even take insurance. Cash on the barrelhead or get out!

[geckosfeet]

55. Not far enough. But you did use some pretty big words and advance some fairly abstract ideas.

It may be too much to expect a whining conservabot to actually understand that they are lucky as hell that they getting any healthcare at all. In a RW paradise, she would be paying through the nose. In some parts of the world, she would travel days to find a doctor.

These things just seem unreal to conservabots, and because they don't/have not personally experienced them they do not exist.

[Narkos]

57. Yeah, I don't think she will ever understand, but

I'm hoping other people who read my comment will get it.

[pinboy3niner]

74. Routine vision exams have ALWAYS been low priority

Military members and their families usually are aware that those appointments should be planned and booked well in advance. (And the same goes for the VA health care system--which consistently is rated as good or better than private health care.)

Your friend seems to have the kind of entitlement attitude that the Left is always (falsely) accused of: "I want it and I want it NOW!"

I'd have been tempted to make a snarky reply about how we oviously should have put increased funding into expanding optometry clinics so she can have her need for a routine vision exam met on an 'urgent--top priority' basis instead diverting funds to frivolous things things like TBI and PTSD. Or that she should clip a coupon and head for Lenscrafters if she thinks DoD's government health care is so terrible.

[gateley]

58. Excellent, Narkos! I think you laid out the facts

without personally attacking her, and the part about friends working at ******** should at least give her pause for thought.

People who are anti-government seem to have a chip on their shoulder so she might overreact, in which case I'm sure you'll be able to smooth things over and not destroy the relationship. But you needn't apologize about the facts you presented. Again, I think you did a VERY good job.

I'm interested to hear of her -- and others' -- comments.

[Narkos]

89. It's funny, I haven't heard a peep from that post

and it was posted this morning. I think the relationship will be fine....we're not especially close, but we've been there for her and her family during a very difficult time in their lives. Hopefully this may open her eyes a bit.

[Skittles]

132. don't worry about it Narkos

you not only opened her eyes - she will think twice before spewing her nonsense to any intelligent folk

[Narkos]

151. Thank you. I hope you're right. n/t

[GoneOffShore]

59. You did just fine.

Thank you.

I would take it a little further as per http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002420301#post48

And keep hammering at her. Her apology means nothing.

[wakemewhenitsover]

60. Perfect.

[yellerpup]

61. Nicely done and with admirable restraint.

You made your case using logic and truth. She may be embarrassed about being set straight if it appears on FB, but your measured, compassionate response makes her look all the more shallow and ungrateful. If she is upset, don't blame yourself. She sounds starved for attention.

[Chorophyll]

62. Well done!

Calm, articulate, and accurate.

[LiberalLoner]

64. Brava! I use military healthcare and it has literally saved my life more than once.

Good answer!

I'll admit sometimes when I see how harried and overworked and stressed my doctors are, I wish there were more funds available for there to be more doctors and nurses, but I'm grateful for the care I do get and I try my best never to bother them with something I can live with or something that is self-resolving in time.

(Although that can work to my disadvantage at times because when I came down with Guillain-Barre Syndrome last year, I didn't want to go to the doc - figured I'd just thrown out my back and had nerve problems because of a pinched nerve in my back - it took my husband insisting to get me to the ER at all. Because he dragged me to the ER, I got the IVIG treatment and didn't end up on a ventilator for months or dead.)

Anyway - thank you for all you do. Some of us at least know you are overworked and underappreciated and some of us are very grateful.

[Narkos]

66. Thank you. I appreciate it. N/t

[ut oh]

65. Not too far...

Very well said. You did not use explitives, you did not call the OP names or demean them in any way.

I think it was spot on.

[livingonearth]

68. Sounded perfect to me.

Thank you for speaking up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Good and accurate.

[Gold Metal Flake]

70. Good response! Don't emergency cases take priority over elective exams?

I mean sudden vision problems, glaucoma, macular degeneration, stuff that is serious but not emergency room stuff (like a splinter stuck in a cornea).

[Narkos]

71. Of course...any emergency gets seen immediately n/t

[Historic NY]

72. Your the hammer that hit the nail square on the head......

some people think its all about them all the time. You should ask if her mechanic takes her in right away to change her oil.

[footinmouth]

73. I think it's perfect

Let's hope it did some good.

[The Wizard]

75. A very measured

and succinct response. As a recipient of socialist health care, I am mostly satisfied. The VA, as with any institution, has a 15% chance of incompetent patient care or, 15% of the people are assholes. That is the unwritten asshole factor. Sometimes it's your turn to encounter an asshole. It happens everywhere.
Someone bitching about elective health services for no charge is part of the 15%.

[abelenkpe]

76. I get my health care through work

I have to go to my main doctor to get a referral to a specialist. To see my main doctor can take a day to two weeks. I pay a co pay. Then I get a referral, make another appointment a couple weeks out and pay another co pay. In both cases I have to arrange time off work and lose pay for the hours missed. How is what she receives from the government less than what I'm paying for?

[GeorgeGist]

77. Firm but Fair

works for me.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

79. Too Far? Goodness no!

In fact, you handled it with kid gloves. I'll be you have a great bedside manner too! :O)

[Narkos]

92. LOL! Well, I really love what I do

and I like taking care of my military brothers and sisters.

[MADem]

80. You were too frigging polite.

Don't be nervous--I'm a military retiree--I got yer back!

[Narkos]

91. Hooah! Thank you sir! n/t

[GopperStopper2680]

82. Bravo!

Three Cheers! Excellently done. I commend you for standing up for the community. Conservatives have had it too good for too long as a friend of mine would say. Simply put they're spoiled and they think if they don't come first it's time to kick sand and cry. It's time for them to grow up and wipe their noses like everyone else.

[beemer27]

83. You responded properly.

Taking her bitching to FB was a low thing to do. Your response was fair and not insulting. Had you wanted to, it would have been easy to really cut her down. You made your point, and did not lose a friend. Well Done !!
I must however take YOU to task. You called it free health care. I am retired military, and have never considered my military or VA healthcare as free. It is a benefit that I was promised when I signed that dotted line. This is also one of those benefits that I paid for with my youth, and my health. I am not taking offense, as I know that you did not mean to give offense with your choice of words. I do feel that I must mention this, so that in the future it will not be considered free by anyone.
Thank you for posting your experience, and your response. It will certainly cause a few people to reassess their opinions on this matter.

[Narkos]

90. Agreed...nothing is free, however

she is a dependent whose husband is a reservist on active duty orders because he can't find a job that pays decent in the private sector. As to your larger point about military benefits being paid in full by service member's commitment to their country at risk to themselves, I couldn't agree more!

[denbot]

84. Ya done good

I'm a VA patient, and yes it does take time to be seen if it is not urgent, and you do have to be your own advocate at times, but my V.A. health bene's are GOLDEN TO ME.

[mysuzuki2]

85. It's scary to wait a month for a routine eye exam?

The last time I made such an appt it was I had to wait 6 weeks before I could get in. This was at a PRIVATE clinic.

[Narkos]

93. I know! Private sector health care is FAR from

efficient....but she gloms onto the conservative position that anything the government does is bad and inefficient.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. it would be great if some people posted to her

their experiences with private insurance and health care---just like people are doing on this thread!
Maybe that would open her eyes a little more.

anyway, you did good! Great, even! You hit the right tone, factual but not lecturing or scolding...better than I did on some replies to FB comments that were right-wing-ignorant.

I don't know how they'll be when I run into them again........

[Narkos]

154. Thank you. I'm sure I'll run into them

again soon. If anything happens, I'll post an update!

[duhneece]

86. Beautiful. You never 'hit below the belt'

You spoke honestly and with respect, but with passion and reason...I always WANT to sound like this, but am not always able to hit the high mark, like you did. You rock and I look up to you!

[Narkos]

94. Thank you very much! n/t

[DFW]

95. On a taking it too far scale of 1-100

I'd say you were somewhere around 0.0375

You didn't hit him with a sledgehammer (I would have, which is why I don't have a job like yours).

It's more like you stroked his earlobe with a Q-tip.

[Narkos]

97. LOL!

[Cleita]

101. So I guess she would prefer not having any health care or having to pay

for her eye exams herself. I'll bet she didn't think about that. It reminds me of a Canadian friend of mine, whose husband was on dialysis, at the same time mine was also on dialysis here in the US, who complained about the Canadian system and wished he could get care here in the USA. I asked her what it would cost her if the Canadian govt. didn't pick up the tab. She didn't know so I told her that it cost $3,000 a month for my husband at the time our entire income. Fortunately, Medicare picked up the tab for my husband. It shut her up when she realized how expensive it was and that in both countries the government picks up the tab because insurance companies refuse to cover end stage renal disease. If there were no Medicare we would have to pay out of pocket because the private health insurances won't cover it.

[WCIL]

102. If she is still talking to you

ask her if she will trade with me. Our health insurance costs us $18,000/yr and the last time I made an eye appointment the soonest appointment I could get was 6 weeks out. Then the doctor went out of town that day and the re-schedule was 2 weeks later. I got smart and scheduled next year's appointment as I left this year's!

Until a VA clinic was set up in our town, my dad had to drive 2+ hours to Iowa City for his appointments. He never, ever complained, and was so grateful to be able to use VA services. Petty complaints like hers would have earned her a long lecture from him.

[Narkos]

104. That is a perfect anecdote to relay to her

and if she decides she still wants to be friends, I'll mention your situation!

[WCIL]

108. I hope it gets through to her

she should know how lucky she really is!

[yourout]

103. One word to describe it........perfect.

[noiretextatique]

105. you were really nice, rational, and informative

prepare for your friend's head to explode.

[emmadoggy]

106. I just scheduled an eye exam for my two kids today.

April 25.

Tell her most of us would jump at the chance to have what she has.

[TheKentuckian]

107. You can't even see far from there, too far is a few states over.

[Narkos]

127. Is Kentucky too far?

I hope not, because I love your state!

[Jackpine Radical]

110. I think your response was well-formulated

because you simply laid out the facts & described the consequences to you of her comments. You in no way attacked or demeaned her. This was pretty much a textbook-perfect "Cease & Desist" request from the Assertive Behavior Manual.

[Narkos]

121. Thank you sir. N/t

[bluestate10]

111. No. You did exactly what should be done.

It baffles me how many conservatives whose very well being depends on government largess rip the government. Such people operate under the mistaken impression that the government somehow gives money to those that don't deserve government help. If the woman continues to adhere to her viewpoint, I am ok with cutting her off from government assistance.

[Narkos]

122. I can't stop laughing!

But you're right, if she wants a perfectly seamless health care experience that is suited to her lifestyle,maybe we should cut her off!

[Pakid]

112. I will trade her

She can have my 400 dollar a month health care premium and I will take her free care By the way it takes me 3-4 weeks to get an appointment to see anyone and she whine about a 4 week wait when its free. Just another right-wing low information person!!!!!!

[Narkos]

126. Haha! I'll let her know ;-)

[southernyankeebelle]

113. Well you make some good points. But I will tell you I have seen both sides of this issue. There

are good and there are bad. I can remember trying to get my son an appointment to see a doctor. I kept calling over and over til one time I got into my car and went over to the hospital and walked into the clinic and made my son an appointment in person. Sometimes that is frustrating. But the military motto that you hurry up and wait is something you get use to. I didn't it when my dad was in the military for 22 yrs and I did it when my husband was in for 20 yrs. You do what you have to do. Just like in civilian hospitals good and bad.

I remember my dad's experience back in 1970 in a VA hospital. He was very ill and they couldn't tell you what was wrong with him. They finally had a board from John Hopkins look into his problem. They finally found a spot on his lower colon. They were going to do surgery but he died before they could. He bleed to death. The one thing my mom kept saying was this one nurse was giving him a hard time. You see he would get these high fevers and he would get delusional and would say things about seeing his mother and sister both who died already. But when he was out of that state he was the sweetest person and didn't want to bother anyone. There was a brain patient in the next bed and he would help him when he needed something. They were short staffed. Once he asked the nurse for a wheelchair. She told him to get it. My mother remembered that. When she went back to get his cloths many of the staff came over and hugged her. She told that nurse in private the next time someone asks you to get something do it. She didn't know what to say. He was 50 yrs old. Left 2 small children under the age of 11.

My youngest brother had a lot of ear infections. Finally the had surgery done on his ear. The doctor was over an 1 hour late and my little brother was 4 yrs old. He was scared to death and crying. They finally put him under opened his ear then the doctor closed it without doing anything. This particular doctor should have been kicked out of the army because of screwing up many patients I found out later. They had to bring in a specialist from Walter Reed to do his ear because the other doctor screw it up. When this doctor told my little brother to whistle he was able to. The doctor had tears in his eyes. Because he was worried that there would be nerve damage. Thank god it didn't happen.

My son had several ear infections and had 3 surgeries for those tubes to be put in his ears. They did a great job. When he turned 14 yrs old he ended up having his tonsils taken out at Walter Reed again. They were very nice people but when I took him home he wasn't getting better. He had a fever. I ended up taken him to the ER at the military hospital at 7:00 in the morning. When I got there the Sgt said to take him to peditracis. Which I did. When I got there the said take him to the ER. I told her they told me to come here. The COL head of the clinic came out of his office and told me to come in and he looked at my son. He had gotten strep throat while he was at the hospital. Well he give him the right medicines.

Then when we were on active duty my husband wanted a vasectomy. We got lost the first time going to Walter Reed. We ended up missing the appointment and it was to late to reschedule because we were going overseas. It ended up the regular doctor wouldn't do the procedures because of his religion. Needless to say we were pretty pissed off. However he sent us to family practice doctor and he did the procedure.

So now that we are retired I have to say I love my Tricare Primary. I get excellent care and my primary doctors send me to the right doctors. Believe me I see a lot of doctors now that I am older. Next year I will go on Medicare plus I will have cover of military care.


There are good and bad in all plans. I can honestly say I like my civilian care better than my military care. By the way when I was working with civil service I did have my own private insurance. I didn't delivery my child in a military hospital. I went the first 2 times. It was like a cattle call. They a chairs against the wall. The first place was your weight and then you went down the line. I felt it was a terrible experience. I am glad I ended up in a civilian hospital. But I met my doctor at the military hospital. I asked him if he had a private office off base. He did and I started going there. I didn't regret it. I had a lot of serious health issues.

[Narkos]

117. No system is perfect

and the military healthcare system is huge, so your personal experiences, while important and illuminating, don't tell the entire story. Also, the MHS has changed a lot since even the late '90s. I've heard many of the horror stories, and while some were probably exaggerated, I'm sure many of them were true. However, I think the larger I point I was trying to make to my friend is that if you want on-demand health care when it is perfectly convenient for your schedule, you have to pay for it. She has chosen not to, and therefore she can't have everything she wants. I think your point about quality of care is important, but I think the military health system is vastly different than it was even 10 years ago.

[southernyankeebelle]

136. I can compare it to the times my dad was in the military in the 50s. I remember momma taking us to

doctors and never having to wait to see the doctor. We got excellent care to. I do remember hating to have to get shots when we had to go overseas. You had a series of shots when you had to go back then. Also when coming back from overseas. Of course they don't have to do that any more. Man I hated those shots. LOL.

Your right about the care. Yes it is vastly changed since my husband retired in 95. I use to work at the VA hospital in Tn. That was a vast improvement over the care my dad received at the VA in Baltimore. But still no matter where you go at times you can find good and bad doctors.

Of the 2 I am very happy with my primary care doctor and my Tricare. I wish this program Tricare could be able for every one. It is reasonable.

I wouldn't trade the care we got from the military or the civilians.

[Aristus]

114. BRAVO!

That totally rocked! As one medical care provider to another, THANK YOU!

[Narkos]

118. Thanks!

[Kalidurga]

116. 20 minutes on the phone. What a lightweight.

If she thinks it's because she gets free health care she couldn't be more wrong. Even if you have great insurance or pay out of pocket it isn't all that unusual to be on the phone for 20-45 minutes and it is usually at the higher end for wait times.

[Narkos]

125. Agreed...and I followed up w an email and told her that n/t

[Tumbulu]

119. beautifully written

and very glad that responded in a public way about it.

[Narkos]

124. Thank you

[LittleGirl]

120. some people just like to complain

even when they don't mean it. And some are just whiny shits for the hell of it. I thought your note was quite nicely written. Notes are difficult because the 'tone' can't be conveyed. You can write sarcasm and yet, someone will miss the tone entirely.

And you mentioned that you were close friends even in hard times so that made the tone of your note easy to read without being cranky or mean either. And facebook! argh. I removed half of my 'friends' this week because some never posted, some were friends over 5 yrs ago and there was no connection anymore. People need to move on sometimes. Your nicely written note said, I could do that but I'm won't and here's why. good job.

[Narkos]

123. I appreciate that

She's been through a rough time.....she's a good person and loving mother, so I could never bring myself to be hateful towards her....but dammit, this conservative mindset drives me nuts sometimes!

[Kennah]

128. As a former conservative, I think you did amazing.

Whether you punched soft or hard, you swung and connected, figuratively speaking. That is what matters. You have to use your own judgment in terms of how hard to push at any one time.

I think you provided a very factual response with surgical precision--no pun intended. It is pretty much an ideal sized response. Small enough for even a limited attention span reader to follow it to the end, and large enough that this woman is going to have to read, digest and think before responding--unless she just spouts off something incoherent.

There were a number of people over the years with whom I verbally sparred on the issues. In the moment, there and then, only bits and pieces would I concede, even if I knew they were right. Some of that is human nature, but there is also a facet of conservatism which does not really permit an alternative thought. The dismissive, "We'll just have to agree to disagree" is really a cop-out when one is out of ideas, and conservatives love it. I think too many on the left permit it to stand and don't go after it.

Collectively, everyone with whom I sparred, played a part in changing my thinking over time. It does not matter if you win a concession from a conservative or not. Fighting back eventually pays off.

[Narkos]

155. I agree, even if she even reconsiders

slightly how hypocritical she is being, it wil have been well worth it. Generally though, I tend to shy away from confronting these folks. Since you were a former conservative, you are well aware how dangerous it can be when things get out of hand, particularly with family members. But I think you're right, standing up now and again is probably the right thing to do, because it CAN change minds. We'll see.

[grahamhgreen]

129. No. Pitch perfect.

[Skittles]

130. you did great, and in a VERY civil fashion

you simply pointed out the cold, hard facts to her sorry ass; yes INDEED

[davidthegnome]

133. Not at all

On the contrary, I'd say the fact that you're nervous about it demonstrates that you care about this person and about others. You said nothing cruel or hurtful, you neither lied nor attempted to accuse. You merely pointed out simple truths.

[ibegurpard]

134. that was an excellent response

[MrMickeysMom]

137. You were too kind...

But, then, you are a health care provider, and are used to this from time to time. I know I am.

[lunatica]

138. If telling it like it is is taking it too far, why yes. You took it too far

Some people judge everything by what's convenient for their demands, not by how much better it is for everyone. There's no sense of or appreciation of being part of a larger community and the small personal sacrifices that may entail.

[beac]

139. It's too bad she didn't get an apointment to take care of her other problem...

terminal stupidity with a probable secondary infection of Rushitis.

Your response was measured, polite and spot-on , but her condition may be incurable.

[matmar]

142. That was a homerun. Good job.

[dash_bannon]

144. Perfect!

You hit the nail on the head, explained yourself well, and presented your case. If your friend remains clueless it's her own fault.

The best thing about it is that you were polite but direct.

Best of luck.

[Glaisne]

145. Are you kidding me

Your reply was measured, polite, respectful, accurate and true. There is no reason to be nervous, unless she is a totally unhinged right-wing wacko. But you sir are a scholar and a gentleman.

[Narkos]

156. Thank you!

[KBlagburn]

146. IMPORTANT!!!!! FROM A DISABLED VET!!! PLEASE READ!!!!!

The most important point in this WHOLE conversation is this. She can complain all she wants about free govt health care. But she must remember this. Since obviously her husband was not drafted THEY PARTICIPATE BY CHOICE AND CAN OPT OUT!!!!!
#1 He can choose to leave the military if they are not happy. #2 If he chooses to stay she DOES NOT have to participate in the free health care system, she does so by choice. #3 Active Duty are given appts before family members.

[Narkos]

158. True! That's the thing...

they remain on active duty because her spouse wasn't able to make enough on the outside. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

[47of74]

147. This is awesome

I might file this one away for future use.

[lefty16]

149. Absolutely Not

Good work, I'm sick of idiots that don't understand

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

150. I have private insurance--Blue Cross Blue Shield--and I need relatively important surgery

but have to wait for 2 months before I receive the surgery.

When I lived England, I broke my ankle and surgery was scheduled two days later...

[Narkos]

157. Another anecdote that I will share if I get a chance!

She needs to hear stories like these. Thanks!