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Laelth

(32,017 posts)
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:25 AM Dec 2013

This, my friends, is far too typical for my generation.



Not to exacerbate any generational warfare which, I agree, is counterproductive, but to educate my Boomer and Millennial friends, today's Doonesbury explains the frustrations and life experiences of many GenXers. Would those Ph.D holding, hard-working, and intelligent people be waiting tables or working as nannies 20 years ago? Somehow, I doubt it. It's not like we Xers don't work hard. We do. It's not that we lack ambition. We don't. Our world is simply much worse, economically, than the one into which our parents were born.

I don't blame Boomers for giving us Ronald Reagan and supply-side economics. I do blame Boomers for their apparent lack of concern and action on this subject. In their defense, I suspect that Boomers lack a frame of reference to understand how much harder it is to live in this world now. The United States was at its richest in 1973, and it has been getting poorer ever since. Boomers came of age when we were at our richest, and they don't seem to understand why their children and grandchildren are struggling. The lack of sympathy and concern many of us get from some boomers (especially our family members) is disconcerting and depressing.

Thus, I post this strip as a friendly and poignant reminder. Take care of your children and grand-children, Boomers. We've had plenty of "tough love." Many of us now need some real love.

-GenX Laelth

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This, my friends, is far too typical for my generation. (Original Post) Laelth Dec 2013 OP
As a boomer, I can appreciate what you're writing. Too many of us don't get it .... Scuba Dec 2013 #1
Thanks, Scuba. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #5
used to be, you could have a single breadwinner in a family with just a high school eucation, and be dionysus Dec 2013 #6
I remember a US Savings Bond commercial from the early '70s Art_from_Ark Dec 2013 #10
What happened to the American dream? WHEN CRABS ROAR Dec 2013 #234
There ya go. truebluegreen Dec 2013 #250
It started with deregulation under Nixon. merrily Dec 2013 #260
I don't recall much deregulation under Nixon truebluegreen Dec 2013 #303
+1...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #307
it was a rhetorical question... dionysus Dec 2013 #252
Reagan! Need I say more? n/t aggiesal Dec 2013 #253
What happened to the American Dream? They destroyed the union movement! B Calm Dec 2013 #289
some define me as a Boomer too hfojvt Dec 2013 #151
There are plenty of we boomers who DO get it 2naSalit Dec 2013 #220
I'm in this category, too. Silver Gaia Dec 2013 #258
Yup. 2naSalit Dec 2013 #277
You have to remember Boomers are a generation split down the middle brush Dec 2013 #238
Not to worry. I'm clearly not uncaring nor a fat cat. Scuba Dec 2013 #246
That's how I remember it, too Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #278
Not just the Boomer generation ... JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2013 #311
Good point about the anti-draft motivation brush Dec 2013 #364
You're preaching to the wrong folk, cuz most of us here despised Reagan struggle4progress Dec 2013 #2
I appreciate that you read the post. Laelth Dec 2013 #4
you said what I THINK you said, young lady :wags finger: Schema Thing Dec 2013 #34
Thank you. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #49
OK. Where I come from, "I don't blame you for ..." means "I know you did that but I understand why" struggle4progress Dec 2013 #36
I certainly appreciate the fact that you fought against Reagan and supply-side economics. Laelth Dec 2013 #63
My experience of politics is that often one must choose between doing the work and struggle4progress Dec 2013 #75
That's really interesting. Laelth Dec 2013 #92
See, RobinA Dec 2013 #133
Better? Laelth Dec 2013 #137
You have a lot of 2naSalit Dec 2013 #254
Ah, I see. Laelth Dec 2013 #292
Really? 2naSalit Dec 2013 #333
Sorry you feel that way. Laelth Dec 2013 #336
It's just advice about a certain style of political work, that "choose between doing the work struggle4progress Dec 2013 #194
I think I see what you mean. Laelth Dec 2013 #294
Are you sure you're a boomer? beerandjesus Dec 2013 #105
I earned my PhD in math years ago, then taught for years, so I guess I've met lots of 13ers. struggle4progress Dec 2013 #132
Did you also spend the Carter years and the Clinton years fighting supply side economics? merrily Dec 2013 #255
IIRC I spent some of the Carter years blaming everybody older than me for fucking everything up struggle4progress Dec 2013 #256
This has been going on since Nixon. Some dismantling of the New Deal merrily Dec 2013 #261
I agree. Reagan was just a harder turn right. I remember during the 80's discussing how long it adirondacker Dec 2013 #312
Thinking back, I remember giving Reagan the benefit of the doubt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #418
Correct. I would never vote for Reagan, and btw, my greatest generation parents HATED him! whathehell Dec 2013 #83
Boomers were about 30% "Hippie", 40% "Nixon Youth", 30% "Centrist" in the late 60s. jeff47 Dec 2013 #174
Yep, but even then, what was considered "centrist" was a lot more liberal than what it is now.. whathehell Dec 2013 #200
In 1984, I was teaching at a college that had an ROTC program, Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #279
Yep, I believe it...As I recall, a number of universities would not whathehell Dec 2013 #295
ROTC saw a resurgence after most other sources of Federal financial aid Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #327
Oh wow.. whathehell Dec 2013 #329
He threw so many Viet Nam vets out on the street! NCarolinawoman Dec 2013 #257
so true nt Tumbulu Dec 2013 #269
PhD in engineering and no job? GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #3
you should be ashamed of yourself. moxybug Dec 2013 #7
Because I spoke truth from experience GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #9
Anecdotally RobinA Dec 2013 #21
Telling a story about your husband isn't "first hand experience". It's second hand. JBoy Dec 2013 #67
Doubtful GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #71
LOL. Oh, OK. JBoy Dec 2013 #77
Your whole story is what is doubtful. There is a SURPLUS of computer scientists pnwmom Dec 2013 #267
Sorry But I Can't Agree ProfessorGAC Dec 2013 #97
I think the real question is, what kind of salary is he offering? beerandjesus Dec 2013 #117
I'll give you some first hand experience philosslayer Dec 2013 #209
Why don't you come back and brag when he actually has a job? pnwmom Dec 2013 #270
I'm a civil engineer... Blanks Dec 2013 #233
I have six engineers in my extended family in different sub-areas pnwmom Dec 2013 #265
depends on the area. a college friend of mine had a degree in mechanical engineering but ended up dionysus Dec 2013 #8
where are you and how is he recruiting elehhhhna Dec 2013 #16
Your compassion and sensitivity are a beacon to those of us lost in the wilderness. Orrex Dec 2013 #18
LOL, quite literally. Well said. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #24
You read that poster's sig, didn't you? cyberswede Dec 2013 #219
I think you're honing in on a detail and missing the point Ian_rd Dec 2013 #23
Gee, I wonder why that is. Aerows Dec 2013 #28
That's not true GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #30
"Entry level" Aerows Dec 2013 #33
What do you want with a bachelor's degree? GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #40
I have a job Aerows Dec 2013 #46
Just out of curiousity, what do you do for a living? Marr Dec 2013 #127
Maybe for clarity you could post the specifics of the job your husband is offering? Maedhros Dec 2013 #237
Entry level is fine. Laelth Dec 2013 #299
I think you may have hit on a leftynyc Dec 2013 #42
Not really Aerows Dec 2013 #53
Disagree leftynyc Dec 2013 #61
Ask anyone in the IT field Aerows Dec 2013 #121
He's in the business school at UT leftynyc Dec 2013 #125
Those ridiculous expectations usually come from their parents Mariana Dec 2013 #147
You've stated it very well Orrex Dec 2013 #120
Bingo GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #73
That doesn't apply to GenXers as they aren't "right out of school" gollygee Dec 2013 #84
But they once were GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #89
20 years later? gollygee Dec 2013 #91
bored now GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #104
The problem is that you're thinking you're talking about basement dwellers gollygee Dec 2013 #106
My advise to you is to stop trying to reason with under the bridge dwellers. It'll Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2013 #114
Ah yes....get called on bull, it's time to run away. jeff47 Dec 2013 #182
Maybe you should go give your husband some libertarian boot-strappy advice about AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #286
early 90s GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #76
You must be speaking of MBAs/Wall Streeters. tosh Dec 2013 #119
I do live in NY leftynyc Dec 2013 #123
My ex-wife and I both graduated with IT degrees in 1984. ieoeja Dec 2013 #144
They were indeed getting leftynyc Dec 2013 #178
Are you speaking from personal experience? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #215
Yes - very personal experience leftynyc Dec 2013 #217
Then he should put the job description here. pnwmom Dec 2013 #271
Why hasn't he spoken with a college campus? xmas74 Dec 2013 #420
So work as a nanny instead? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #139
IT job availability is pretty localized. jeff47 Dec 2013 #183
Really? gollygee Dec 2013 #39
Then you guess wrong GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #45
So it's the first part gollygee Dec 2013 #48
HAHA I noticed that dodge too. laundry_queen Dec 2013 #80
So many personal anecdotes, so little analysis erronis Dec 2013 #158
So your world is a reflection of the entire nation? Rex Dec 2013 #47
The cartoon is no more a reflection of the entire nation GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #62
you gave YOUR anecdote… now others are giving theirs. and they do not jibe. nashville_brook Dec 2013 #81
Wow, now my strawman quota for the day is met <EOM> Colorado Liberal Dec 2013 #118
I don't know what fantasy world you are describing in your reply Rex Dec 2013 #201
Look to the signature line. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #284
Seriously, pokemon trading cards? Blanks Dec 2013 #235
Pokemon? kcr Dec 2013 #248
I 'm thinking your husband's experience is very much the exception fishwax Dec 2013 #79
Cool story bro! nt Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2013 #85
There was a time... freebrew Dec 2013 #100
Buy that, it common uponit7771 Dec 2013 #109
Where are you located? DFW Dec 2013 #129
Zero applications - Something is seriously wrong with hedgehog Dec 2013 #161
Then he's doing it utterly wrong. jeff47 Dec 2013 #180
I would LOVE to see the job ad for that. I really would. Brickbat Dec 2013 #210
You want to know why? Post the details, we have a cadre of engineers that Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #214
Best answer yet! pnwmom Dec 2013 #263
I think it's quite telling a2liberal Dec 2013 #264
They never do. I went around with this nonsense in the late '90s Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #334
My husband works for a large engineering firm that is about to pnwmom Dec 2013 #262
I live in a college town. xmas74 Dec 2013 #421
Maybe he's not paying enough and is looking for an excuse to Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #280
What salary is he offering? JoeyT Dec 2013 #287
Maybe if the pay was above minimum wage Blecht Dec 2013 #371
Engineering jobs tend to be centered in specific city areas. And engineering degrees are expensive. haele Dec 2013 #422
Yes, relocation may be necessary GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #11
Why should relocation be necessary? Laelth Dec 2013 #29
Yes -- harder, especially in some areas -- but GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #32
Oh so really this is about an emotional response. Rex Dec 2013 #51
+1. This is it. JBoy Dec 2013 #93
Pissed her hubby isn't allowed to have indentured servants instead of employees. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #157
Boomer parent here who couldn't agree more! hedgehog Dec 2013 #164
Exactly. And I'll never understand why some people seem to think relocation is just no big deal kcr Dec 2013 #35
No, I won't concede that GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #50
Yeah, and it's not like anything has changed since the 60's kcr Dec 2013 #58
EVERYTHING has changed since the Sixties..Even the minimum wage was worth Three Dollars more in whathehell Dec 2013 #103
Three dollars more? Laelth Dec 2013 #128
Yes, three dollars more in SPENDING Power.. whathehell Dec 2013 #196
Admittedly, our VISA law is abused, and it hurts American labor. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #229
It certainly does, and this has been going on since the mid-nineties, at least. whathehell Dec 2013 #296
Another gift from Bill Clinton? Laelth Dec 2013 #297
You betcha...He didn't start it, but he continued it with no problems...As Michael Moore has said, whathehell Dec 2013 #330
What percentage of a person's income went to housing in the 60s? gollygee Dec 2013 #59
And then add to that you're likely moving to an area with a higher cost of living kcr Dec 2013 #65
And you are likely moving from an area where you had at least a bit of family Nay Dec 2013 #152
Additionally, assuming that you can sell your existing house in an economically depressed area... Blanks Dec 2013 #236
Wow. That's too bad. Laelth Dec 2013 #66
Twice? jeff47 Dec 2013 #184
My field assumes up front anyone entering it will move several times a year. It's a bit annoying. nt Posteritatis Dec 2013 #239
Relocation costs money gollygee Dec 2013 #41
Doesn't matter to someone that got pissed off over a cartoon. Rex Dec 2013 #54
They forget that GenXers gollygee Dec 2013 #57
I agree, we cannot just magically pick up and move for free! Rex Dec 2013 #116
It might not be such a good choice even for someone very young Art_from_Ark Dec 2013 #251
One need only look at her signature... Oilwellian Dec 2013 #155
Yep. Middle finger to everyone, right out front. Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #187
I'll bet GladRagDahl Dec 2013 #68
We're talking about GenXers, not 20-somethings gollygee Dec 2013 #74
Or they could just borrow $20,000 from mom and dad to start a business, right? last1standing Dec 2013 #99
We GenXers have elderly parents gollygee Dec 2013 #111
I'll go further to say that her language is right out of the "Entitled Republican" playbook. last1standing Dec 2013 #124
So, everything's just like the 60's kcr Dec 2013 #130
WOW tazkcmo Dec 2013 #363
It wasn't for my parents, thats HUGE for people. Family infrastructure makes SO Much of a difference uponit7771 Dec 2013 #112
I've been claiming that our kids won't be leaving our home... Pholus Dec 2013 #12
Been hearing alot about multi-generational housing this year ... SomeGuyInEagan Dec 2013 #177
I like the concept, but hate that it is implemented.... Pholus Dec 2013 #249
Definitely agree. SomeGuyInEagan Dec 2013 #331
I agree. The 1% is having a good laugh at our expense. Laelth Dec 2013 #300
While I acknowledge there are some Boomers chervilant Dec 2013 #13
I'd guess over half of the boomers have had their own careers decimated while elehhhhna Dec 2013 #26
I'll have to reserve judgment chervilant Dec 2013 #78
You are right Chervilant. dotymed Dec 2013 #82
I am with you 100%!!! blue14u Dec 2013 #272
Thanks blue14u. dotymed Dec 2013 #291
Thanks for reading the post. Laelth Dec 2013 #301
Actually, chervilant Dec 2013 #361
I Get Your Point RobinA Dec 2013 #14
amen. read my post just above yours? elehhhhna Dec 2013 #27
Talking in terms of generations is useful. Laelth Dec 2013 #304
There must be some kind of sympathy & awareness. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #15
There are far too many of those, I agree. Laelth Dec 2013 #305
Have you read this article? Ian_rd Dec 2013 #17
No. I had not read that article. Laelth Dec 2013 #306
Not just us Boomers, but our parents too,,,, KarenS Dec 2013 #19
Many Boomers are parents and Aunts and Uncles so We know whats going on kmlisle Dec 2013 #171
Thank you. That was a lovely post. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #308
Thank You! Springslips Dec 2013 #20
Cheers, my friend. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #31
Hopefully this OP blue14u Dec 2013 #274
I hope so too, and thanks for the kind words. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #290
Not all of us Boomers are ignorant of the situation, we love our kids! Dustlawyer Dec 2013 #22
Thank you. Laelth Dec 2013 #298
"Many of us now need some real love" Hubert Flottz Dec 2013 #25
Thanks for callling attention to this quote from my OP. Laelth Dec 2013 #313
Most of we 98% are in that same boat! Hubert Flottz Dec 2013 #321
In my own time and on a few occasions, I have chosen love over money in my life. Laelth Dec 2013 #328
Well stated, Laelth. brer cat Dec 2013 #37
Thank you for the kind words. Laelth Dec 2013 #309
GenXer, born 1972, checking in ....... marmar Dec 2013 #38
Thanks. Laelth Dec 2013 #314
thank you G_j Dec 2013 #43
We are all, definitely, in the same boat. Laelth Dec 2013 #316
Part of the problem is how the educational system operates n2doc Dec 2013 #44
For many years, I was one of those graduate students. Laelth Dec 2013 #318
You should blame the Boomers ramapo Dec 2013 #52
Gen X wasn't old enough to vote for Reagan kcr Dec 2013 #60
Not true. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #160
No. kcr Dec 2013 #165
People born in '64 were able to vote for Reagan. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #176
For one thing, not that many of them did kcr Dec 2013 #192
Fine. I didn't state this: "Gen X wasn't old enough to vote for Reagan" Raine1967 Dec 2013 #205
You didn't state it. I did, because it's correct. kcr Dec 2013 #216
well those are the dates I like hfojvt Dec 2013 #168
Thanks for the info. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #181
but it was NOT Boomers hfojvt Dec 2013 #188
It was a combination of things that included Boomers. jeff47 Dec 2013 #191
but if only people under 30 got to vote hfojvt Dec 2013 #203
Because of that 44. jeff47 Dec 2013 #213
the end of the baby boom does not factor at all hfojvt Dec 2013 #273
Thank you for pointing this out kcr Dec 2013 #197
Understoood. eom. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #206
There were also Gen X'ers who may not have been old enough to RFKHumphreyObama Dec 2013 #242
Still a small portion of Gen X, and a very small portion of the voters over all kcr Dec 2013 #245
That is a pretty ridiculous claim eilen Dec 2013 #293
plenty of us did not fall for the Reagan con job Skittles Dec 2013 #223
Yup, and plenty of us are facing the same crap job-wise. GoCubsGo Dec 2013 #243
That makes a lot of sense. Laelth Dec 2013 #319
I am a Boomer who joined DU today (after lurking here daily for years) to reply to you.... zed nada Dec 2013 #55
Welcome to DU ~ zed nada In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #98
The good news jeff47 Dec 2013 #190
Welcome. Very thoughtful post. nt cry baby Dec 2013 #259
Welcome to DU zed nada blue14u Dec 2013 #275
I am honored. Thank you for the post. Laelth Dec 2013 #320
College mills and corporate America made a college degree worthless Rex Dec 2013 #56
My pleasure. Laelth Dec 2013 #322
Please stop with the boomer bashing Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2013 #64
No doubt, Wall Street is the real culprit, here. Laelth Dec 2013 #70
I understand the general point you're making thucythucy Dec 2013 #138
Excellent post. Thanks. I appreciate the thoughtful response. Laelth Dec 2013 #143
Interesting about George Will flamingdem Dec 2013 #347
Bingo! nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #69
I don't know if this is what you are talking about, but... CoffeeCat Dec 2013 #72
Relocation is essential if the jobs are elsewhere. randome Dec 2013 #90
On the college front jeff47 Dec 2013 #195
I can see you have thought about this a great deal. Laelth Dec 2013 #372
You are so very sweet... CoffeeCat Dec 2013 #397
I took my son to the doctor last week... meaculpa2011 Dec 2013 #86
Probably PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #101
I'm sure you're right. meaculpa2011 Dec 2013 #166
My brother PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #212
+1 KurtNYC Dec 2013 #179
Very true. meaculpa2011 Dec 2013 #189
Good post. Sounds about right to me. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #332
As an early boomer randr Dec 2013 #87
Excellent post. Laelth Dec 2013 #335
Oh, believe me I understand randr Dec 2013 #382
I am happy for your kids and your grands. Laelth Dec 2013 #383
Back at ya randr Dec 2013 #384
In the 80's I worked with guys that are now retired or were and have since passed away that brewens Dec 2013 #88
Very insightful post. Thanks. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #337
This late Boomer gets it PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #94
You're definitely on the border, generation-wise. Laelth Dec 2013 #338
Sorry but as a boomer LittleGirl Dec 2013 #95
Sorry you took the post as a personal attack. Laelth Dec 2013 #339
The exact opposite of what you posted is true. former9thward Dec 2013 #96
Good points but I think it can get better if government played a better role than that of bystander. randome Dec 2013 #149
You and former9thward make good points. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #186
I hear you about the infrastructure. Ours used to be the best. Now, not so much. Laelth Dec 2013 #342
Well, Laelth, I did my part. malthaussen Dec 2013 #102
That means I have fewer people to compete against for reasonably well-paying jobs. Laelth Dec 2013 #145
It would be inconsistent for a person with my nick to add to population. malthaussen Dec 2013 #153
Well said Tumbulu Dec 2013 #310
I'm SORRY ! penndragon69 Dec 2013 #107
I really don't blame you (or any other Boomer) for Reagan. Laelth Dec 2013 #175
AMEN!!! My wife and I talked about this very thing this week. That OUR generation has to do things.. uponit7771 Dec 2013 #108
Quite true. Laelth Dec 2013 #134
+1 Raine1967 Dec 2013 #172
My pleasure. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #230
too true justabob Dec 2013 #110
It's a colossal waste of human capital. Laelth Dec 2013 #343
Boomer checking in to say "I get it" Lifelong Protester Dec 2013 #113
Thank you. Laelth Dec 2013 #131
I would like to ask something of you, too, Laelth..... llmart Dec 2013 #244
I need to take some time to consider this post before I respond. Laelth Dec 2013 #345
i've had about as much "tough love" as i can stand. Sheri Dec 2013 #115
My pleasure, and thanks for the kind words. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #370
you're welcome, sweetie. nt Sheri Dec 2013 #419
It is quite true . . . Brigid Dec 2013 #122
Thanks for the response. Laelth Dec 2013 #348
People with disabilities have always faced this problem. thucythucy Dec 2013 #126
I appreciate your adding this perspective. Laelth Dec 2013 #353
The problem is the idea that simply creating a whole bunch more exotic degrees lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #135
my brother and his wife are on food stamps southmost Dec 2013 #136
The OP illustrates one of the many reasons why it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE to ... Martin Eden Dec 2013 #140
Hear, hear! n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #365
having been in the academic job market 20 yrs ago... mike_c Dec 2013 #141
I really can't accept "same as it ever was." Laelth Dec 2013 #368
I hear you.... mike_c Dec 2013 #379
My expectations are quite low. Laelth Dec 2013 #381
Boomer tomato dude weighs in..... NRaleighLiberal Dec 2013 #142
+1 CountAllVotes Dec 2013 #198
Lovely post, NRaleighLiberal. Laelth Dec 2013 #377
I can understand your feeling riverbendviewgal Dec 2013 #146
There's a reason GenX votes in record low numbers jeff47 Dec 2013 #211
I greatly admired OWS riverbendviewgal Dec 2013 #218
Excellent analysis, jeff47. Thanks. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #378
Real love CountAllVotes Dec 2013 #148
Lovely post and a great story. Thanks. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #352
You think all us hippies voted for Reagan? HomerRamone Dec 2013 #150
This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2013 #154
If the welcome was for me, thanks but HomerRamone Dec 2013 #159
This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Dec 2013 #162
Divide et impera: plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose struggle4progress Dec 2013 #156
I thought I said the exact opposite. Laelth Dec 2013 #356
I saw that cartoon this morning. leftyladyfrommo Dec 2013 #163
I appreciate what you wrote. Laelth Dec 2013 #358
I saw this Doonsbury this morning, so was drawn to this OP mountain grammy Dec 2013 #167
What a beautiful post! Laelth Dec 2013 #366
Hang in there, kids! Times like this have happened before, just not as bad. raging moderate Dec 2013 #169
This time, it's lasting a lot longer. Laelth Dec 2013 #367
Strange. Larabee9898 Dec 2013 #170
You have been very fortunate, perhaps? n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #373
A tale of two cities (and two countries and two cultures) DFW Dec 2013 #173
You have done well by your children. Kudos to you. Laelth Dec 2013 #374
I'd be very foolish if I didn't acknlowledge that n/t DFW Dec 2013 #399
I also want to say, I think you are better than we were. raging moderate Dec 2013 #185
Interesting analysis. Laelth Dec 2013 #375
I always think back to when I was in college. Springslips Dec 2013 #193
+1. Well said. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #376
The US was in an abnormal position 1945-1975 happyfunball Dec 2013 #199
America begin declining in the 1980's during Reagan's terms in office. Rex Dec 2013 #202
No, the 1970's weren't all that happyfunball Dec 2013 #204
The problem I'm having with this is that there is an assumption Skidmore Dec 2013 #207
Thank you..... llmart Dec 2013 #349
This post deserves a response. Laelth Dec 2013 #385
An Engineering PhD has to wait tables?? philosslayer Dec 2013 #208
Heard you the first time.. SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #221
stop demonizing boomers Skittles Dec 2013 #222
Don't worry, Skittles. Laelth Dec 2013 #344
I'm Gen X (also with PhD) and almost everyone I know with a PhD has a decent job aikoaiko Dec 2013 #224
Well that was my first thought too, somewhat extreme. Rex Dec 2013 #225
Agreed. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #226
Are there lots of opportunities for people like you to hang out with waiters? Laelth Dec 2013 #380
My Ph.D. program tracks every graduate. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #391
Cool. Thanks for the response. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #392
What changed after Reagan? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #227
I am certainly no fan of "free" trade. Laelth Dec 2013 #387
As a boomer I do get it. Pakid Dec 2013 #228
I voted against Reagan twice. I hate Reagan's guts. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #231
My stepdaughter is just finishing up her degree in microbiology and immediately after is 1monster Dec 2013 #232
20 years ago was better than this, 30 years ago was just as bad (early boomer) diane in sf Dec 2013 #240
Alas, it was the Boomer's PARENTS that gave us Reagan. Demeter Dec 2013 #241
How dare you say that! CountAllVotes Dec 2013 #362
My father sent him money Demeter Dec 2013 #369
For someone who didn't want generational warfare, Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #247
I am sorry you dislike the thread. Laelth Dec 2013 #393
I was intrigued by this discussion, Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #395
Fair enough. Laelth Dec 2013 #396
Well, it seems a Boomer like Garry Trudeau understands. But then, I'm not sure most understand.... Moonwalk Dec 2013 #266
Good points. llmart Dec 2013 #351
Many of us late boomers went through this exactly in the early 80's Tumbulu Dec 2013 #268
Thanks for the response. Laelth Dec 2013 #402
Well, you raise a great question Tumbulu Dec 2013 #406
Thanks for the response. Laelth Dec 2013 #407
Yes, very true Tumbulu Dec 2013 #411
I just thought it was an interesting observation. Laelth Dec 2013 #412
I totally understand it Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #276
The Millennials may save us all. Laelth Dec 2013 #390
As a late boomer, and a long time activist, I've been exhorting Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #281
k&r avaistheone1 Dec 2013 #285
when they killed our heroes, JFK, MLK, RFK....what happened? Chrom Dec 2013 #315
You really think the money people who run things care about demonstrations? djean111 Dec 2013 #326
Really? You need older people to fight? Do honestly believe that the majority of boomers have Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #389
I know some of these grads. TxDemChem Dec 2013 #282
I'd rather be lucky than good. Laelth Dec 2013 #394
"Boomers lack a frame of reference to understand how much harder it is to live in this world now." Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #283
Most? Kaleva Dec 2013 #288
Boomer here - that not having a frame of reference? Bullshit. Born in 46, got one pair of shoes djean111 Dec 2013 #302
Jobs were scarce when we got out of school, too. leftyladyfrommo Dec 2013 #317
Meanwhile we have overpaid assholes on TV telling us we don't deserve what we have. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #341
Broad brush? divisive? Look at the post which I had responded to. Kaleva Dec 2013 #324
I am so sorry - I didn't mean to reply to your post - my life as a Boomer likely was djean111 Dec 2013 #325
A LOT of us boomers were the product of the flood of divorces in the 60s and 70s... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #340
No need to apologize! Kaleva Dec 2013 #346
I am pretty resourceful, can stretch a dollar a loooong way, djean111 Dec 2013 #354
You ought to check out the Frugal Living group here at DU Kaleva Dec 2013 #357
Thanks! I will check that out right now. djean111 Dec 2013 #360
"Money isn't everything." Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #323
Precisely. Laelth Dec 2013 #350
In California apartments that used to go for $350 a month shoot up to $1,100 in 15 years.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #359
The joblessness of those who have very good educations is very rarely discussed truedelphi Dec 2013 #355
This boomer graduated at in 1982. Multiple degrees. Yo_Mama Dec 2013 #386
. Laelth Dec 2013 #388
I don't rmember life ever being very easy. leftyladyfrommo Dec 2013 #400
You are not a boomer to this boomer.... Bennyboy Dec 2013 #403
The reason that shift happened was because the economy sucked so bad Yo_Mama Dec 2013 #404
My trade, Tilesetter/mason pays less, much less today Bennyboy Dec 2013 #405
All corrections go too far Yo_Mama Dec 2013 #410
Very informative post. Thanks. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #408
Uh huh... a whole generation of doctorate holders... That must be it... Decaffeinated Dec 2013 #398
Your scorn and derision are noted. Laelth Dec 2013 #401
For many people I know relocation is... meaculpa2011 Dec 2013 #409
LOT OF TIME BEING WASTED ON THIS..... Blus4u Dec 2013 #413
Welcome to DU. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #414
You might as well be yelling this into a wishing well. If the Boomers were capable of jtuck004 Dec 2013 #415
Sadly, it feels that way sometimes. Laelth Dec 2013 #416
Just look around. We can't get enough debt, yet it is the very thing that is killing us. jtuck004 Dec 2013 #417
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
1. As a boomer, I can appreciate what you're writing. Too many of us don't get it ....
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:31 AM
Dec 2013

... and think the old rules still apply.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
6. used to be, you could have a single breadwinner in a family with just a high school eucation, and be
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:37 AM
Dec 2013

able to afford a house, 2 cars, and a vacation or two. and when you retired you'd have a nice pension waiting for you. and if you went to college, you wouldn't be rich per se, but very well to do.

all of my contemporaries are college educated and for everyone that is married, both spouses need to work full time just to afford a halfway decent, house, student loans, and daycare since they both have to work.

what happened to the American Dream?

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
10. I remember a US Savings Bond commercial from the early '70s
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:43 AM
Dec 2013

It featured a mailman who proudly proclaimed, "Last year I was able to save 300 bucks with the US Savings Bond program" ($25/month X 12 months). In those days, a retirement nest egg of $40-50 grand was considered to be pretty decent.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
234. What happened to the American dream?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 07:22 PM
Dec 2013

Corporations, banks and Wall Street, getting anything that they wanted from the government.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
250. There ya go.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:36 PM
Dec 2013

Wage growth flatlined in the mid-70s but costs kept going up. The PTB wrote the tax code to benefit themselves, labor was de-valued and destroyed as a political force, business became openly all about greed being good...add 40 years and voila! Here we are.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
260. It started with deregulation under Nixon.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:35 PM
Dec 2013

Carter was quite the de-regulator, too. And of course, there was repeal of Glass Steagall and NAFTA.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
303. I don't recall much deregulation under Nixon
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 10:33 AM
Dec 2013

--remember the wage and price controls?--although I think he did do some serious damage regarding health care (I have a vague recollection of him and Haldeman? deciding to allow profit-taking? I can't remember).

Edited to add: Here it is. It wasn't Haldeman, it was Ehrlichman: http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/richard-nixon-john-ehrlichman-all-incentives-are-toward-less-medical-care

All the Incentives are Toward Less Medical Care

In this conversation excerpt, domestic policy advisor John Ehrlichman? briefed President Nixon on what he viewed as the advantages of relying on Health Maintenance Organizations as a key component of the U.S. health care system, using Edgar Kaiser's Permanente as an example. True HMOs at the time had been devised by health care reformers who hoped to control costs, improve patient care, and facilitate coverage for the uninsured. For Ehrichman, however, the HMO idea represented an opportunity to develop a private sector-based, profit-driven alternative to a national health care proposal offered by Senator Edward "Ted" Kennedy (D-MA).


But I definitely remember Carter starting the ball rolling on deregulation. After the oil shocks of the seventies and "stagflation" he and others no doubt felt new ideas were called for....I am not as fond of Carter as many are here.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
151. some define me as a Boomer too
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:13 PM
Dec 2013

born in 1962. I have an MA and work as a janitor for the last 11 years. So I am supposed to be doing WHAT about the glut of people with advanced degrees.

The OP asks, 'would that have happened twenty years ago'? Well, yes, I graduated 23 years ago. So yes, it would.

But even beyond that, I got my BA 28 years ago, and it was so useless in the job market that I ended up going to graduate school.

Of course, that's what I get for majoring in an apparently useless subject for employers.

That subject? Math.

2naSalit

(88,800 posts)
220. There are plenty of we boomers who DO get it
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 04:03 PM
Dec 2013

and are holding advanced degrees that we got after a late "regrooving" only to come out of school with a mortgage and no house to show for it... and yes, we ARE waiting tables and cleaning motel rooms too, and competing for work with you GenXers. Try getting a professional position in your forties or fifties and have only a working background without having saved the world by the time we were twenty and competing with twenty-somethings who will work for less because they don't have as many financial obligations.

I think your generalization overlooks this cohort of boomers. The point does apply to us as well as everyone else who entered the workforce from 2000 on... and it sucks.

Silver Gaia

(4,599 posts)
258. I'm in this category, too.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:31 PM
Dec 2013

Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2013, 12:39 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm a Boomer, too, but wasn't able to go to college until I was in my early 50s. It took me from 2001 to 2010 to get my bachelor's and my MA. I have work related to my degree, but it's part-time contract work with no benefits, and this is the BEST thing I could find. I feel damn glad to have it, but it isn't what I had planned on. I was unable to get anyone around here to even consider me for retail, restaurant, or other similar jobs because they all said I'm "overeducated. So, I'm in the same boat. I'm actually nearing retirement age now, but I don't see ANY remote possibility of that happening anytime within the next 10 years... unless I win the Lotto or have some other fantastic stroke of luck. You're right. It sucks.

ETA: And I did not vote for Reagan. Ever. I remember trying to talk my grandmother out of it, but she was star-struck, and enthralled with the idea of a movie-star as president. Nothing I could say would have swayed her infatuation with this idea.

2naSalit

(88,800 posts)
277. Yup.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 02:27 AM
Dec 2013

I have never voted for a republican for president, ever. I remember the sixties and everything since that has come of having one flavor of government and the other. I lived in CA when Ronnie Raygun was Governor and again when Brown was Governor the last time too, it was a world of difference... essentially like going from a total police state to something far more palatable-but I still can't live there.

My current situation is much like yours, that is when I can get something relative to my education, which is rare. So I manage sandwich shops or run hotel desks, clean rooms, operate heavy equipment or whatever I can find down in tourist town for a paltry sum during the season and try to make it through the off seasons the best I can. Glad I don't live in a heavily populated area, don't think I'd have even half a chance of keeping a roof over my head or anything else.

Keep hanging in there though, it's about all we can do while trying to get the folks who should be representing us to notice that we are still here and teach those younger than us that things have been worse but not since we were really young and that we all have a stake in this thing... not that it was ever easy street at any time.

brush

(55,088 posts)
238. You have to remember Boomers are a generation split down the middle
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 07:52 PM
Dec 2013

I was on campus during late '60s - early '70 participating in civil rights and anti-war activities and I distinctly remember setting up our table at the student union with other campus groups. One of those other campus groups was the Young Republicans who were antithetical to everything we stood for.

It always been so amongst the Boomers — the dichotomy of the left vs the right — and it has been that divide that has marched along with us through the decades, through Nixon, Carter, certainly through campaigning against Reagan/for Reagan, through campaigning against Clinton/for Clinton, and certain the same split carried on thru W the disaster Bush and through to campaigning for President Obama.

Pls don't lump all Boomer together as uncaring, fat cats. We are the original protest generation and we many times have wondered what happened to the GenX and Millenial protestors?

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,543 posts)
311. Not just the Boomer generation ...
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 11:16 AM
Dec 2013

... in the late eighteenth century, the population was similarly split: 1/3 for the revolution, 1/3 for the crown, 1/3 uninterested.

Or, so say some history books. None of my family were here at the time.



Are GenX and Millenials united in their political views? I work with a few GenXers who are not all liberals.

Boomer anti-war protesters were perhaps more motivated: there was a draft.

brush

(55,088 posts)
364. Good point about the anti-draft motivation
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 04:59 PM
Dec 2013

There were Bush's wars though. I myself march in NYC and Wash. DC demontrations against those wars. Doesn't seem like the torch was picked up.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
4. I appreciate that you read the post.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:36 AM
Dec 2013

That's enough for me, but I specifically stated that I do not blame Boomers for Reagan.



-Laelth

Schema Thing

(10,283 posts)
34. you said what I THINK you said, young lady :wags finger:
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:13 AM
Dec 2013

accuracy schmacuracy




I loved your OP, and as someone on the Boomer/Millennial age line, I'm going to share it. Accurately

struggle4progress

(118,701 posts)
36. OK. Where I come from, "I don't blame you for ..." means "I know you did that but I understand why"
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:14 AM
Dec 2013

You also say "I do blame Boomers for their apparent lack of concern and action on this subject"

I think that if you checked carefully, you'd also find many of us here spent the Reagan years fighting such bullshizz and have since then have continued to try all manner of ways to fight back

But the learning curve has been steep for me, and I think also for everyone else: whenever I finally learn one new piece of the puzzle well, explaining to other people exactly how such and such a tactic might work (under some circumstances) requires me to walk back down to the bottom of the little slope I've conquered and restart the uphill climb to demonstrate what I'm suggesting. And since IMO what's really required is a fully self-conscious mass movement, there's no way to insist on any point or demand anything from listeners -- and there's no way to avoid listening to their understandings either: in fact, that's essential

The bottom line is simply that progress always has been and always will be a real struggle, and much of the work is painfully slow, until enough people are engaged, at which point the dynamic changes, and one suddenly is forced up a new sleep learning curve, where one begins again learning one piece at a time of a new puzzle. And it can be psychologically exhausting if one insists on thinking optimistically or pessimistically -- quite a lot of intellectual and emotional habits simply must be abandoned, including the habit of trying to think things through too carefully, which must be replaced by a more scientific process of trying this than that than something else to see what works




Laelth

(32,017 posts)
63. I certainly appreciate the fact that you fought against Reagan and supply-side economics.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:33 AM
Dec 2013

Tragically, that effort has not yet led to any real progress on the issues of economic justice, wealth inequality, and income inequality. This, however, I can say. Americans under the age of 30 have a more favorable opinion of socialism than of capitalism. My generation's shock, anger, frustration, and, yes, resentment are causing us to bring up and educate the Millennials and the next generation to demand some economic justice. If this situation does change, it will be our doing, and we'll rightfully take credit for it.

-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
92. That's really interesting.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:56 AM
Dec 2013

In my post above, I noted that GenX is actually doing the work. We're rearing the next generation(s) to demand economic justice, as well as being the most productive generation (i.e. hardest working) in the history of the planet. Undoubtedly, you've seen the evidence showing massive gains in productivity since GenX entered the workforce. That's me and my generation, working harder than any cohort ever recorded. In fact, the majority of the workforce is now comprised of members of Generation X. You can understand that we're a little ticked that we work harder than our parents and grand-parents did and yet have much less to show for it.

So, we're doing the work, and we'll rightly take the credit. We're producing those children who favor socialism over capitalism. That's how it looks from my perspective, in any event. Not exactly sure what you were trying to say ...



-Laelth

RobinA

(9,966 posts)
133. See,
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:40 AM
Dec 2013

here is where the trouble starts, when people (any people) start saying "we work harder." Your readers may agree with certain aspects of what you are saying, but the "we're better" meme just turns many members of non-we right off.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
137. Better?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:46 AM
Dec 2013

Where did I say that?

The fact is that we do work harder. All the evidence shows that. If that makes us "better" in your mind, so be it, but you said that, not me.



-Laelth

2naSalit

(88,800 posts)
254. You have a lot of
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:24 PM
Dec 2013

work to do to prove to me that you work harder than many of we boomers have for social justice and equality. And I think you have to work harder to understand that as well. Honestly, that's a pretty self-aggrandizing attitude there, and just where did you get your "evidence"? Exceptionalism much? Maybe a good hard look around you might help, a good hard look beyond your iphone monitor... might take you a couple decades but eventually you might understand that what you are implying is pretty selfish.

Yikes.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
292. Ah, I see.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 08:14 AM
Dec 2013

While I have participated in a civil rights march (1987, Forsyth County, Georgia), I can not say that GenX did as much "work" as the Boomers did advancing the causes of social justice and equality.

No, the "work" I was talking about is the kind you have to do to live. According to the data I've seen, GenX does more of that than any generation in recent history.

And we have less to show for it. Go figure.



-Laelth

2naSalit

(88,800 posts)
333. Really?
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:28 PM
Dec 2013

Your equivocation doesn't mean a thing without some backed up info. So you went to a march, how nice of you. It might interest you to study what WE did back in the 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s... getting teargassed in front of the white house and in the streets en masse, beaten by cops, arrested for no good reason, denied jobs because we had hair more than 1/2 an inch long, and for what we wore and if we were seen with certain people... Denied education, access to student loans wasn't a fact of life until the late 80s and early 90s for most of us so if you weren't born with a silver spoon up yer butt, forget college. And many of us had brothers, husbands and dads who were traumatized and physically damaged by our continuous wars of choice... if they lived through it. And then there are those of us who worked to change things from within the system at our workplaces, and sometimes one or two might even get elected and try to affect change from that angle.

Did you know that in many states that women were at fault for their rapes if they didn't have every window and door of their dwellings double locked? And trying to prove you didn't "lead him into" forcing himself on you was near to impossible and you could end up in jail for reporting sexual abuse? And that you were considered a "possession" of your parents such that what they chose to do with you (including incest and beatings and deprivation of human concern) was their business unless they actually killed you or visibly starved you? I think you have no idea what life was like for our generation and that you have been spoiled by the privileges you enjoy that have not always been there... and guess who fought to make them possible.

So, as far as I'm concerned, you have a long way to go to even start to think that you have it tough or have "done more" than we boomers. You can start by reading some history and then take a good hard look in the cosmic mirror and ask yourself what you're all haughty about. You have a long way to go before you can start taking credit for what we did to make it safe for you to do what you choose to do for yourself.

So you can take your haughty attitude and keep it to yourself and stop insulting those of us who worked and fought for your freedom to be a snob.



struggle4progress

(118,701 posts)
194. It's just advice about a certain style of political work, that "choose between doing the work
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:37 PM
Dec 2013

and taking the credit"

If that doesn't interest you, you don't sweat it: maybe it's wrong, or maybe it's just meaningless

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
294. I think I see what you mean.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:21 AM
Dec 2013

I was, in fact, trying to take some credit for the fact that Americans under thirty have a more favorable opinion of socialism than of capitalism. That made sense to me because it's my generation that reared those people under 30. If they're liberal and demanding economic justice, that's the product of GenX childrearing. For that I take credit, and for that we did the work. We reared those people under 30, not the Boomers.

Hope that explains where I was coming from. That said, I have to admit, I don't really understand the distinction you're making about "choosing" to do the work vs. taking the credit.



-Laelth

struggle4progress

(118,701 posts)
132. I earned my PhD in math years ago, then taught for years, so I guess I've met lots of 13ers.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:38 AM
Dec 2013

Nobody likes it when I tell them to choose between doing the work and getting the credit, but it often seems to me an essential distinction to make in political action: what frequently wins is great unglamorous heaps of nitty-gritty nuts-and-bolts work, that doesn't sound at all hard to do when you describe it to somebody else, but that is really key to the whole thing

I mean, for example, spending days and weeks and months or more, trying to get people to take an issue seriously, and collecting a name or ten names at a time and making sure somebody calls them to show up for something more every now and then, and finally getting together more than a handful of people, and suddenly you've got several hundred folk in a room all clamoring for real action, and they vote for somebody to coordinate stuff, and you make a suggestion, and everybody turns around with who-the-fuck-are-you expressions on their faces, and you realize, holy shit! yes! this is really going to work this time! But the dynamic changes, because before it wasn't a big deal to many folk, and now suddenly there are turf fights over who is in control? and a thousand variants of that, and not everybody is really here for the same reason: there are people who want to sound informed but aren't; there are people who would be really great at the task but are hypersensitive; there are people whose real interest is to be the center of attention; there are people who think nothing should be done until we resolve all of our philosophical differences; there are people who are only there to disrupt ... And every time I've ever gotten credit for anything in a context like that, it's only because there were a lot of hard-workers helping me, who should really be getting the credit: the lady (say) who came up with perhaps the most brilliant strategy I ever heard for this or that particular issue, but who never ever showed up in a group of more than five or six people, or the guy who studied the hell out of one particular aspect of the issue -- so the rest of us could utter an absolutely accurate sentence or two in reply to a minor question that was sometimes asked, because being able to answer questions like that really did help our credibility







struggle4progress

(118,701 posts)
256. IIRC I spent some of the Carter years blaming everybody older than me for fucking everything up
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:26 PM
Dec 2013

Oh, yeah: been there, done that

merrily

(45,251 posts)
261. This has been going on since Nixon. Some dismantling of the New Deal
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:37 PM
Dec 2013

actually began under FDR himself.

It is a meme that Reagan started it all.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
312. I agree. Reagan was just a harder turn right. I remember during the 80's discussing how long it
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 11:19 AM
Dec 2013

would take to catch up to Western European standards of democracy. Seems they took the 60's revolution and ran with it, and we , instead, elected Nixon.

 

Ace Acme

(1,464 posts)
418. Thinking back, I remember giving Reagan the benefit of the doubt
Wed Dec 11, 2013, 08:32 PM
Dec 2013

on his economic programs (even though the recession of 1982 was brutal) because, by God, he did actually whip inflation.

Inflation had really messed up the Carter years. There was no point in saving money, so unless you were going to buy a whole lot of stuff or spend your paychecks on cocaine, there was no point in making any money or any plans.

So Reagan seemed to know what he was doing, and that lent an undeserved and very damaging credibility to the voodoo economics that he instituted 30 years ago and which ideas are still considered conventional wisdom today.

And I can't help wondering if the Fed had the power to keep inflation burning as it did under Ford and then Carter and then to flip a switch and turn it off under Reagan--and none of us were sophisticated enough then to know it. (Is there a tinfoil smiley?)

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
83. Correct. I would never vote for Reagan, and btw, my greatest generation parents HATED him!
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:49 AM
Dec 2013

I was 30 when Ronnie Reagan ran for President and I don't know who voted for the jerk, but I DO recall

an interview with Abbie Hoffman in which he reversed his "Don't trust anyone over thirty" mantra to

"Don't trust anyone UNDER thirty now -- They're all for Reagan".

.Maybe the younger boomers?..I don't know, but it certainly wasn't the preponderance of people in my age group.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
174. Boomers were about 30% "Hippie", 40% "Nixon Youth", 30% "Centrist" in the late 60s.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:53 PM
Dec 2013

And political alignment actually tends to stay the same over the years.

So we got Reagan because your part of the Boomers happened to be outnumbered.

We don't tend to associate with the morons on the other side of the political fence (and they're morons no matter which side of the fence you are on). As a result, we get a skewed idea of what "our generation's" political beliefs are.

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
200. Yep, but even then, what was considered "centrist" was a lot more liberal than what it is now..
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:55 PM
Dec 2013

and as Abbie Hoffman mentioned, people 10 and twelve years younger than us at the time, tended to be for Reagan.

They were the very tail end of the Baby Boomers. In fact, Barack Obama. born 1961, would have been one of them.

Judging by the way he seemed to praise Reagan as a "transformational president", I wouldn't be surprised if he was

one of the "under 30's" at the time who voted for him, ESPECIALLY since he actually came out in the last election and revealed that

"In the mid-Eighties, I would have been considered a Republican".

It was also a considerable number of the older generation...I have a friend my age who told me her parents were stone

liberal until Reagan came along...Then they became "Reagan Democrats".

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
279. In 1984, I was teaching at a college that had an ROTC program,
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 02:37 AM
Dec 2013

and most of the ROTC students were Reagan bots. There were plenty of left students (although the majority of students were apolitical), but the ROTC gang was especially conspicuous due to the fact that they wore their uniforms on campus one day a week.

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
295. Yep, I believe it...As I recall, a number of universities would not
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:24 AM
Dec 2013

even allow ROTC on their campus, but that was, as I remember, in the 60's and 70's.

Thanks for your recollections, Lydia.

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
327. ROTC saw a resurgence after most other sources of Federal financial aid
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 12:53 PM
Dec 2013

were eliminated or reduced during the Reagan administration. ROTC gave the students free tuition and textbooks (the college bookstore had a special checkout line for them)--along with a dose of right-wing indoctrination.

One of the most radical professors I ever met thought this was deliberate, and she was almost certainly correct.

NCarolinawoman

(2,825 posts)
257. He threw so many Viet Nam vets out on the street!
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:31 PM
Dec 2013

....and don't get me started on the environment! You can't be a part of the original Earth Day , as I was, and like Ronald Reagan!

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
3. PhD in engineering and no job?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:34 AM
Dec 2013

I don't buy that. My husband is trying to hire 4 people right now with a minimum of a bachelors in computer science or electrical engineering for a month now. Do you know how many applications he's gotten? Zero.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
9. Because I spoke truth from experience
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:42 AM
Dec 2013

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Anyone with a degree in engineering who doesn't smell bad on an interview and who doesn't have a criminal record can get a job. Microbiology? I have no idea but I know for a fact that engineers (both civil and electrical) are in huge demand. I know this from first hand experience.

RobinA

(9,966 posts)
21. Anecdotally
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:57 AM
Dec 2013

this isn't true. I have a relative, a recent graduate of a top engineering school, with a Bachelors and Masters in some aerospace type engineering who does not smell bad, had excellent grades and no criminal record. He has been unable to find a job. He was flown across the country to interview for one position, but there were several others, also flown across the country, also with good grades from a good school. He did not get the job. Even if he had gotten the job, a bunch of other engineers would not have. In this case, the demand was far less than the candidate pool.

JBoy

(8,021 posts)
67. Telling a story about your husband isn't "first hand experience". It's second hand.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:37 AM
Dec 2013

And as an engineer I can tell you from first hand experience that your statement about how easy it is to get a job is utter nonsense. I hire entry level engineers and I have dozens of good applicants to choose from. 10% might get an interview, one gets picked.

If your husband is actually getting zero applicants, then it sounds to me like he needs to learn how to advertise jobs.

pnwmom

(109,176 posts)
267. Your whole story is what is doubtful. There is a SURPLUS of computer scientists
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:34 AM
Dec 2013

and engineers. If you're husband isn't getting any applications, something is seriously wrong with his approach.

http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1319039

If US universities are pumping out high-tech college grads in numbers sufficient to fill job vacancies, why is industry saying that they need more? H-1B temporary worker programs that bring in more STEM workers seem to be heating up again -- why?

According to an Economic Policy Institute's comprehensive study concerned with the supply and demand of STEM graduates, findings indicate that for every two students graduating with STEM degrees from US colleges, only one is hired in a STEM job. That's quite a disconnect, especially if the training is rigorous.

The study was prepared by experts Hal Salzman, Rutgers, B. Lindsay Lowell, Georgetown, and Daniel Kuehn, Urban Institute and EPI, and concluded that: "in computer and information science and in engineering, U.S. colleges graduate 50 percent more students than are hired into those fields each year." It also concluded that there isn't a shortage of talent -- and if there was, wages would have risen rather than remaining flat over the period in question.

Looking at the future, the report indicates that there will be three new high-tech degree holders for every two high-tech jobs over the next decade. There are already millions of unemployed college grads.

SNIP


ProfessorGAC

(66,659 posts)
97. Sorry But I Can't Agree
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:01 AM
Dec 2013

We've had openings for Chem E's for more than year. We have filled 60% of the openings. In a year.

We've made offers, but the competition, at least for Chem E's is quite intense, so it becomes primarily a money bid. Someone else offers more.

We're not in a remote area. Just an hour or so south of Chicago. Big metro area, but far enough south that we get into the lower tax areas. (Property and sales.)

Company pays competitively, per the surveys. (Definitely not at the highest end, but above the median.)

We still only get probably 12 candidates for every 7 spots. And, we've been turned down over money 3x.

This is one year worth of experience, very recent, and coming from a multibillion dollar firm. Still anecdotal, but contrary to your comments.

beerandjesus

(1,301 posts)
117. I think the real question is, what kind of salary is he offering?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:12 AM
Dec 2013

Sure, anyone with a PhD in engineering can get a job--if they can support their family for the same amount of money the company would pay a single H1B living in a youth hostel.


If anyone thinks we 13ers are raising a generation of socialists, they're goddamn right.

 

philosslayer

(3,076 posts)
209. I'll give you some first hand experience
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:27 PM
Dec 2013

My son is a year away from getting a BS in Mechanical Engineering degree. He's 20. He's already getting cold calls for interviews.

pnwmom

(109,176 posts)
270. Why don't you come back and brag when he actually has a job?
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:40 AM
Dec 2013

And has kept it.

My nephew with a ME degree and a solid GPA from an highly regarded school got an offer and a job very quickly -- and then the whole division was laid off three months after he started. The next employment hunt was much harder. He took a non-engineering job to get by, and it was more than a year before he got a real mech E job. The pay was only about 80% of what graduates were getting in the year my nephew got his degree.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
233. I'm a civil engineer...
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 06:49 PM
Dec 2013

Sent out a resume a year or so ago, called to follow up. They had received over 40 resumes (I wasn't even interviewed).

Sure there are jobs, and there is demand for civil engineers, but things are still a little slow.

There are public works projects, but there aren't as many as there need to be in order for all the good engineers to have good jobs.

I'm in my 50's, if I were in a position to hire I'd want someone with less experience than I have.

I'm working now, but I'm not making as much as I was before and it's difficult keeping busy. I'm kind of lucky because I'm also a professional surveyor and there seems to be more surveying work around than engineering. At least in the circles I'm in.

pnwmom

(109,176 posts)
265. I have six engineers in my extended family in different sub-areas
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:23 AM
Dec 2013

and all of them would say BULLSHIT!

That is, unless you're talking about a job that pays minimum wage . . . engineers probably aren't standing in line for those.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
8. depends on the area. a college friend of mine had a degree in mechanical engineering but ended up
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:39 AM
Dec 2013

becoming a debt collector because there were no jobs in the area. of course, he was too stubborn to relocate to find work so it's partially his fault.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
16. where are you and how is he recruiting
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:53 AM
Dec 2013


If he'll hire fresh grads he should have no problems

I'm a headhunter and place engineers. Does he need some advice? PM me.

Ian_rd

(2,124 posts)
23. I think you're honing in on a detail and missing the point
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:00 AM
Dec 2013

Instead of making a statement about the opportunities available to an engineering PhD, the toon is making a point about the diminished opportunities in general for young Americans to earn a good living, some of whom are highly educated and motivated.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
28. Gee, I wonder why that is.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:04 AM
Dec 2013

Every single person that I've heard complain that they can't hire people in the IT field (I'm in that field and I'm employed) is wanting someone that is a skilled in everything to work for $15/hr or something ridiculous like that. If you can't find someone to work for you, you are paying too little, the work environment completely sucks or both.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
30. That's not true
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:10 AM
Dec 2013

He's willing to hire entry level -- with a simple bachelor's degree. No one has even applied to find out salary. Not one resume has been submitted.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
40. What do you want with a bachelor's degree?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:15 AM
Dec 2013

Vice President of the company? Seriously...entry level is NOT a dirty word. Hell, interns for this company historically get paid better than medical professionals in most areas of the country. (I think that pisses me off more than anything... if you are a recent grad with an under-graduate degree you SHOULD be in an entry level position in a company. THAT is where the gen-xers lose THIS baby-boomer. You set your expectation levels WAY too high.)

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
46. I have a job
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:20 AM
Dec 2013

and I'm damn good at it.

I lost you, miss Boomer, because you set your expectations for what you should pay people for their skills way too low. Like I said, if you have 4 job openings and can't hire a soul, either you pay too little, the work environment sucks or both.

It's just that simple.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
127. Just out of curiousity, what do you do for a living?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:26 AM
Dec 2013

I'm from "Gen X" myself and always thought my colleagues and former classmates were the hardest working people I'd ever met-- until these "millenials" came along. They work their asses off at least as hard as we ever did, and have even lower expectations.

I have to wonder what sort of intense professional experience makes you so comfortable labeling generations lazy or saying they have inflated expectations.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
237. Maybe for clarity you could post the specifics of the job your husband is offering?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 07:50 PM
Dec 2013

Requirements, duties, salary, benefits, location.

Then we could rule out some possible reasons he isn't receiving applications.

If he's wanting mechanical engineers to move to Attu Island, Alaska that might explain the dearth, for example.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
299. Entry level is fine.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:51 AM
Dec 2013

So long as we agree that minimum wage, right now, if it had kept up with inflation and increases in productivity would be $22.00/hr. if it was the same as the minimum wage in 1962. So, people with High School diplomas ought to get a little more than $22.00/hr. A college degree should be worth at least $30.00/hr. (i.e. $60K/year).

Is that what you're offering? If not, then you must concede that this work environment sux for GenX and for the Millennials.



-Laelth

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
42. I think you may have hit on a
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:17 AM
Dec 2013

different kind of problem. During the 80s and 90s many people were coming right of school and walking into jobs that were paying 6 figure salaries for starters. Those were incredibly high salaries for new workers and perhaps the people graduating today are expecting the same thing.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
53. Not really
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:25 AM
Dec 2013

I don't think anyone expects six figures right out of school, but in a field where there is high demand, no one is going to take a job for $10/hr or a place where the work environment completely sucks when they can go right down the road and get $20/hr.

There is this expectation that companies can hire a young computer genius for $10/hr that can walk right in and do the job. You see it all the time.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
61. Disagree
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:32 AM
Dec 2013

Me nephew is graduating UT-Austin in May and he I hear he and his friends talking. Many are not going to grad school and their expectations for jobs are ridiculous. 6 figures, 6 weeks vacation, yearly bonuses and this is with just a BS. Thankfully nephew has parents who set him straight and are trying to get him to think about law school - that degree would never go to waste.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
121. Ask anyone in the IT field
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:17 AM
Dec 2013

I'm in the IT field, and I was just relating my experiences, and others can tell you the same thing. Inevitably, there are companies that have an expectation that they can hire someone young with a plethora of skills and pay them next to nothing.

Why on earth would someone with in-demand skills take a job that pays next to nothing or has a horrible work environment if they can take their skills elsewhere? That's why someone with 4 job openings can't find anyone to hire. That was the only point I was making.

Your nephew certainly has some unrealistic expectations. I have no idea what he majored in, but if he is thinking about law school, it probably wasn't science, engineering or technology. I agree that would be a good idea and wouldn't go to waste.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
125. He's in the business school at UT
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:24 AM
Dec 2013

They really aren't his expectations as sister and her husband have made sure that while he grew up pretty privleged, he's under no illusions about how lucky he is. His friends, on the other hand, (not all but many) have been told their whole lives they are the crown princes and deserve whatever they want. Graduation is going to be quite the kick in the ass for them.

Mariana

(14,879 posts)
147. Those ridiculous expectations usually come from their parents
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:07 PM
Dec 2013

or other older relatives. In my own family, it was her two grandfathers and an uncle who told my daughter over and over and over again that she'd be making six figures fresh out of school. Even after she graduated and had a good entry level job, my father told her she was getting ripped off and should be making a lot more.

Orrex

(63,531 posts)
120. You've stated it very well
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:15 AM
Dec 2013

When I was unemployed for an embarrassingly extended period (2+ years), I sent out well over a thousand resumes. I'm not a fuck-up, either; I have experience, employable skills, and I interview well, even if the jobs aren't at the six-figure level. Of the few companies that called back, most offered about half of what I'd been making at my previous job, but their expectation were preposterous. $10/hour, must have at least six years experience in the field, etc.

It was definitely a buyer's market, and it still is, as far as I can tell.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
84. That doesn't apply to GenXers as they aren't "right out of school"
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:50 AM
Dec 2013

I'm a GenXer. I'm in my mid-40s. GenXers aren't just getting out of school and expecting high salaries. They've been out of school and working in their fields for a long time.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
89. But they once were
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:54 AM
Dec 2013

and many are still in the same position that they were upon graduation. Until they get a bit of entry level job experience under their belt they are still "right out of school"

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
91. 20 years later?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:56 AM
Dec 2013

In the 90s, it was easy to get a job, and the unemployment rate was very low. These people got out of school, got jobs, got married, bought houses, started families, and then the economy changed and they lost their jobs but still had all the expenses of grownups who had been working for a decade or two in their fields. They aren't entry-level. These are my friends and neighbors. They aren't 20-somethings in their parents' basements who have never been able to find jobs because the economy has been bad since they graduated. They had jobs during a better economic period.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
104. bored now
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:03 AM
Dec 2013

I'm not going to convince you that most of the problems of the basement dwellers are caused by their own decisions and attitudes and you aren't going to convince me that none of it's their fault. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
106. The problem is that you're thinking you're talking about basement dwellers
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:06 AM
Dec 2013

You're still stuck thinking it's kids who haven't left their parents' basement. People my age - GenXers - have elderly parents, often elderly parents we are helping out, and often parents who are no longer with us. My father passed away in his 70s, and my husband and I pay my mom's rent. I'm not living in her basement. What if my husband lost his job and couldn't find another one? I wouldn't be able to help my mom and she'd be on just social security without that apartment. She'd be worse off too.

Guy Whitey Corngood

(26,549 posts)
114. My advise to you is to stop trying to reason with under the bridge dwellers. It'll
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:10 AM
Dec 2013

only make your brain hurt.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
182. Ah yes....get called on bull, it's time to run away.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:03 PM
Dec 2013

So...can't even give us a state where these jobs are? How weird. Almost like you realize your anecdote isn't going to hold up.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
286. Maybe you should go give your husband some libertarian boot-strappy advice about
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 05:50 AM
Dec 2013

how to be successful at finding good employees.

tosh

(4,428 posts)
119. You must be speaking of MBAs/Wall Streeters.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:13 AM
Dec 2013

My memory of the 80s for the "rest of the country" is nothing like you describe.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
123. I do live in NY
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:20 AM
Dec 2013

so that would make sense. But I seriously don't remember anyone being unemployed that had a college degree and I remember nobody complaining about low wages. What I do remember were bidding wars for people. It was insane and merely the other side of the coin. After the 2008 crash, everybody has cut back and seem determined to do the same or more with less personnel.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
144. My ex-wife and I both graduated with IT degrees in 1984.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:00 PM
Dec 2013

I started out just over $14K. She started just under $14K.

I knew a lot of people in college who thought they were going to get huge salaries straight out of college back then. And I spoke to a lot of interviewers who had no idea where those idiots were getting that idea.


 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
178. They were indeed getting
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:56 PM
Dec 2013

those huge salaries right here in NYC. Right up until 2008 when the markets crashed.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
215. Are you speaking from personal experience?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:44 PM
Dec 2013

Because I graduated HS in 1980 and I am not familiar with any of these "many people".

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
217. Yes - very personal experience
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:47 PM
Dec 2013

I graduated in 1983 and I live in NY (and work in Manhattan). The salaries, benefits and bonuses had employers having bidding wars to get the best candidates. This company would agree to pay your moving expenses, that company would give you an apartment for 6 months until you found your own....it was madness and except for the dip in 1987 (which really didn't effect jobs on Wall Street at all), it was like that right up until 2008.

pnwmom

(109,176 posts)
271. Then he should put the job description here.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:43 AM
Dec 2013

People will tell him why he's not getting responses. Maybe someone will even apply.

But you are wrong about a surplus of jobs. There is actually a surplus of computer scientists and engineers.

From an industry publication:

http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1319039

If US universities are pumping out high-tech college grads in numbers sufficient to fill job vacancies, why is industry saying that they need more? H-1B temporary worker programs that bring in more STEM workers seem to be heating up again -- why?

According to an Economic Policy Institute's comprehensive study concerned with the supply and demand of STEM graduates, findings indicate that for every two students graduating with STEM degrees from US colleges, only one is hired in a STEM job. That's quite a disconnect, especially if the training is rigorous.

The study was prepared by experts Hal Salzman, Rutgers, B. Lindsay Lowell, Georgetown, and Daniel Kuehn, Urban Institute and EPI, and concluded that: "in computer and information science and in engineering, U.S. colleges graduate 50 percent more students than are hired into those fields each year." It also concluded that there isn't a shortage of talent -- and if there was, wages would have risen rather than remaining flat over the period in question.

Looking at the future, the report indicates that there will be three new high-tech degree holders for every two high-tech jobs over the next decade. There are already millions of unemployed college grads.


xmas74

(29,695 posts)
420. Why hasn't he spoken with a college campus?
Sun Dec 15, 2013, 11:15 AM
Dec 2013

I live in a college town and I work for the school. Talk to someone in the engineering department-I'm sure they would be able to make referrals for those about to graduate.

Right now, IT and comp sci grads are a dime a dozen. Get them right out of school and you'll be fine.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
139. So work as a nanny instead?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:50 AM
Dec 2013

I doubt that there are nearly as many job openings for IT or engineering as would be required to absorb all the qualified applicants, but if the choice is between $15/hour in your field of education or $15/hour waiting tables, I would think most people would choose the IT job.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
183. IT job availability is pretty localized.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:09 PM
Dec 2013

When looking for my current job, I started looking in Colorado to move closer to some family. My search included all of Denver, it's suburbs and Colorado Springs and it's suburbs - the area where about 80% of the people live in Colorado. I'd get around around 10 job listings a day. Most of those weren't actually good fits.

With nothing lining up well, I started looking in North Carolina to move closer to a different branch of the family. Search area only included Raleigh and it's suburbs. About 100 job listings a day.

So it's quite possible for an IT person in Colorado to work waiting tables while openings go unfilled in Raleigh.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
39. Really?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:15 AM
Dec 2013

Where, what benefits, how much is he paying, what are the responsibilities? My guess is he either is paying less than someone would make working retail while expecting them to work harder/worse hours, and/or he isn't advertising the opening enough so no one knows about it.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
45. Then you guess wrong
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:19 AM
Dec 2013

He definitely is expecting hard work and he's advertising big time. THIS Is exactly why so many professional visas are being sought int he engineering field. My husband was hoping to hire engineers in this country, but I suspect he'll end up having to employ from India or China. That seems to be par for the course in this area of the country when it comes to the computer sciences.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
48. So it's the first part
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:20 AM
Dec 2013

He is paying very little and expecting really hard work for that small pay. People might as well work at McDonald's or the mall.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
80. HAHA I noticed that dodge too.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:46 AM
Dec 2013

If that person's husband isn't getting any applicants it means he's paying less than some crappy retail job, or he's expecting 80 hours a week for a $30,000 salary.

erronis

(15,973 posts)
158. So many personal anecdotes, so little analysis
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:25 PM
Dec 2013

I don't mean to say this just to GladRagDahl but to everyone who is commenting in this thread.

We all know people who have great jobs without fancy degrees (me and Billy Gates), and people who have incredible degrees (PhDs in hard sciences) without jobs.

@GladRagDahl - could you post an example of your husband's job offerings? There must be something about it that is turning applicants away. I believe you said that the pay level wasn't mentioned in the adverts so it must be something else.

@everyone - we've all seen Bureau of Labor Statistics (or whatever they're called now) numbers. Does anyone have a sample of some meaningful aggregates of how we are doing (US citizens) in getting jobs - broken down by age, sector, and education level?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
47. So your world is a reflection of the entire nation?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:20 AM
Dec 2013

Think about it, no it is not and you miss the point of the cartoon and the OP imo.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
62. The cartoon is no more a reflection of the entire nation
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:33 AM
Dec 2013

than my experience is. And no, I did NOT miss the "poor pitiful, over educated me" point of the article. Life isn't perfect and if you don't want to relocate, or accept an entry level position in order to work your way up but would rather live in mom and dad's basement until something perfect falls into your lap -- that's on you and your parents. I know I'll never convince someone in this position that their own decisions have put them where they are. I see enough of my own friends supporting their adult children into their 30s and 40s -- some because their degree in performing arts didn't pan out and make them a star or because they are too good to work entry level.

I simply don't buy many of the excuses. And this is a great way to vent -- when I have to bite my tongue whenever my friends wail on about how little Casey can't find a job with his Bachelors in psychology so he's spending his time trying to be a pokemon champion in mom's basement until that perfect job finds him. BS on that! Little Casey (or Susan or whatever) should be working part time in a nursing home or a school system or whatever building up some experience. He doesn't have any expenses. He can afford to do entry level, even if it IS beneath him. I know it's all fun and games trading pokemon cards for fun and profit -- and traveling around the country for pokemon competitions but come on, you are in your 30s. Grow up already!

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
81. you gave YOUR anecdote… now others are giving theirs. and they do not jibe.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:47 AM
Dec 2013

so then it's b/c of arts degrees. and then it's b/c you imagine people think that "working is beneath them."

I had a very similar discussion with Chamber of Commerce official who was touting ALEC-sponsored legislation in Tally. Just saying.



 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
201. I don't know what fantasy world you are describing in your reply
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:57 PM
Dec 2013

but you sound clueless as to how hard it is for people to find jobs. I've never met a single person in my life that turned down a job to go play pokemon OR lives in their mom and dad's basement...but carry on, I guess someone somewhere will identify with your post.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
235. Seriously, pokemon trading cards?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 07:28 PM
Dec 2013

It sounds like you're taking one personal experience and projecting it across an entire generation.

fishwax

(29,182 posts)
79. I 'm thinking your husband's experience is very much the exception
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:46 AM
Dec 2013

I taught at a university w/ some of the best engineering programs in the country. I knew several engineering students who were smart andbalance even had some good internship experience, but were competing against hundreds for jobs and had tremendous trouble finding them.

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
100. There was a time...
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:02 AM
Dec 2013

when an engineer didn't have to have a degree. I worked for over 20 years as a mechanical engineer.
I had to correct many mistakes made by engineers with masters degrees.

As I told the guy that fired me,(downsizing) a degree isn't a guaratee of intelligence.

You also didn't state the starting salary. Many companies are not paying professionals well.

Maybe your husband should try changing his qualifications required for the job.

As far as boomers, there are a lot of us. The term covers a large swath, many more folk than GenXers, yuppies, millennials individually. We don't all think alike.

This didn't start with Reagan, he wasn't smart enough to do anything on his own. It started with Nixon's defeat in 1960.
The general populace became too intelligent for their own good.

Their biggest accomplishments: co-opting the media and keeping the left fighting amongst themselves.

Why on earth would the gop still be alive otherwise?

DFW

(55,186 posts)
129. Where are you located?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:30 AM
Dec 2013

My nephew graduated from Stanford Engineering and is finishing up his PhD, has interned with NASA, but has no big job prospects on the horizon. He is still in Palo Alto, probably will be for the (very) short term, until his PhD comes through, but that is probably in the VERY near future, and he doesn't know what's next. He just turned 30 this year.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
161. Zero applications - Something is seriously wrong with
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:28 PM
Dec 2013

either the way your husband is letting people know he wants to hire and/or the jobs he's looking to fill.

Check the offered wage vs required hours.

Check to see if the company has a reputation for bad working conditions.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
180. Then he's doing it utterly wrong.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:01 PM
Dec 2013

And the fact that you won't provide details like location or starting salary indicates you know that, but don't want to admit it.

There's a fair number of out-of-work DUers. How 'bout posting a link to the Monster or Dice posting for these jobs?

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
214. You want to know why? Post the details, we have a cadre of engineers that
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:43 PM
Dec 2013

will be happy to tell your husband why he can't find anyone.

a2liberal

(1,524 posts)
264. I think it's quite telling
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:20 AM
Dec 2013

that she's refused to post any links to a position that is supposedly being widely advertised.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
334. They never do. I went around with this nonsense in the late '90s
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:30 PM
Dec 2013

when they were selling everyone on the "tech worker shortage". Just as now, there was never a shortage of qualified people, merely a shortage of qualified people that had no options and could be coerced into accepting whatever employers were willing to trade for their skills.

pnwmom

(109,176 posts)
262. My husband works for a large engineering firm that is about to
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:15 AM
Dec 2013

lay off many experienced electrical engineers.

You're living in a bubble if you don't believe that there are unemployed STEM PhD's right now.

I personally know of a newly minted PHD chemist from a top school who's still looking for a job one year later, and another guy with a bachelor's degree in ME who needed more than a year.

I don't know how your husband is advertising those positions, but he needs to change his tactics. There are plenty of job-seekers out there for jobs whose pay/benefits meet industry standards. One problem is that the computer screening so many employers use these days screens out many people would be perfectly capable of doing the advertised jobs. (For example, someone who has worked in the food processing industry producing vegetable products is perfectly capable of transferring those skills to fruit or other food products.) Or maybe your husband has written such a restricted job description that, on the surface, no one would seem to be qualified. This is what employers sometimes do when their real aim is to hire cheaper foreign engineers.

xmas74

(29,695 posts)
421. I live in a college town.
Sun Dec 15, 2013, 11:28 AM
Dec 2013

We don't have an engineering degree at the local university but we do have IT. IT grads are currently a dime a dozen, at least around here.

College graduation was yesterday. What are many of the students doing, come next semester? Attending grad school because they know there are no jobs. The few I've heard of having jobs waiting for them were in radiology, nursing, med tech, construction management (every single one had a job months in advance) and safety. Oh, and the ROTC kids. The others? Good luck.

The only kids I've heard of in IT with jobs right out of school were, strangely enough, the international students. The others? Good luck. And I'd bet it's no different with engineering.

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
280. Maybe he's not paying enough and is looking for an excuse to
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 02:39 AM
Dec 2013

hire an H1B who thinks $30,000 a year is a fortune.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
287. What salary is he offering?
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 06:17 AM
Dec 2013

I find that 99% of the time "I'm trying to hire people but they don't want to work!!!" complaints can easily be explained by that question. "What are you offering?". Usually they're trying to pay a third the going rate. Half if they're "generous".

If your husband isn't getting applicants, there's a damned good reason. And the reason isn't that there aren't workers. Either he needs to advertise the position, or he needs to up the pay.

haele

(12,835 posts)
422. Engineering jobs tend to be centered in specific city areas. And engineering degrees are expensive.
Sun Dec 15, 2013, 12:03 PM
Dec 2013

I live in San Diego where there's a shitload of engineering companies that cater to either the military, the universities, or telecom. However, being in the process of finally getting my own degree, I know that the's an additional "engineering college fee" on the upper level courses that kick a $36K BS degree into the $75K level if the student wants to get a degree that actually means more than a technical certification.

Also, (anecdotally) people tend to apply for work within two/three week seasonal periods; Mid-January, May/June and September. I know that when I've applied during those periods, I've gotten jobs.
Don't know why, but that's the application trend I've seen over the past 30 years I've been working. I suspect it has to do with when most people get out of school or the military, finish their vacations, and start looking for work, and these periods are also at the one-month point before most contracts and projects are scheduled to begin, so companies are looking to fill in worker gaps with new people.

Another thing I've noticed is that rhere's always job openings around here at companies that aren't competitive with their wages and benefits; most of them are entry jobs requiring either a technical cert "with experience" or a BS and start at $14.50 - $16 an hour and are usually temporary or linked to a specific contract or project that usually lasts only a year or two.
A high percentage of the advertised openings are also resume collection drives for companies to use to bid on a contract, so applicants are not really serious about the resumes or applications they send in.

Very few engineers with a degree above a BS around here get hired for a permanent position on a blind hire or job fair.
The good jobs that require advanced degrees or experience, the ones that start at $25 an hour, require the applicant know someone or worked on a project the people that have the final say on who hires knows. The idea that "everyone has a chance" at the position is usually a polite lie. If the company doesn't already have someone in mind and has to advertise because that's the law, one's reputation and network is far more important than education or experience in the field.

Now, this is in San Diego, where the people getting jobs here already live within a 60 mile radius. Go over the mountains almost a hundred miles to El Centro, or Brawley, and that BS or MS in engineering that can be a foot in the door at Qualcomm or Sony is not going to find you much more than perhaps a Dish or Cable installer or as buyer or materials handling position at a local construction company or as a member of the Geek Squad at the nearest Best Buy.

I'm sorry your husband can't find any applicants right now. If he started advertising early November, he would have missed the September/October job seeker's rush.
However, if ya'll are in/near a college or military town, or a high-tech hub, he should be seeing some applications starting the second week of January.
If you aren't located near an engineering job hub, it might be a bit harder; you'd be looking at the majority of your qualified applicants who are still working in the field being re-locators that can afford to move and/or feel they can take the chance that your business will need them for more than a year or two, and it would be a good investment to move.

Over the years, I've passed on applying for quite a few jobs that looked like they were project jobs that, while good paying, would require that I pick up and move quite a distance from my "home base", and would then leave me stuck in the middle of BFE when they were over.


Good luck to your husband on his applicant's search. I hate to say it, but LinkedIn might be a cheap way to spread out the net a little wider and find people in your area or people willing to move to your area.

Haele


 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
11. Yes, relocation may be necessary
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:43 AM
Dec 2013

There are tons of dead areas across the country. I'll agree with you there!

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
29. Why should relocation be necessary?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:10 AM
Dec 2013

I agree with you that people have to do what they have to do to survive. Many of us have relocated. I have relocated a couple of times in search of better economic opportunities.

Will you, at least, concede that it's harder for GenX and the Millennials? Is it not true that we have to move more often in search of economic justice and opportunity than previous generations did?



 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
32. Yes -- harder, especially in some areas -- but
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:11 AM
Dec 2013

the whole "PhD in Engineering" and waiting tables just ticked me off.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
157. Pissed her hubby isn't allowed to have indentured servants instead of employees.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:22 PM
Dec 2013

There is good reason his crap job offers go unfilled, people aren't willing to work for starvation wages in crappy work environments for idiots who think paying 24KK a year for 78 hours work a week is a fortune.

kcr

(15,396 posts)
35. Exactly. And I'll never understand why some people seem to think relocation is just no big deal
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:13 AM
Dec 2013

Just wave the free relocation wand, and *poof* instant new home in your new location! Easy peasy.

 

GladRagDahl

(237 posts)
50. No, I won't concede that
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:21 AM
Dec 2013

My father had to relocate twice in the 60s in order to find work. It's why I ended up in the Washington DC area.

kcr

(15,396 posts)
58. Yeah, and it's not like anything has changed since the 60's
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:29 AM
Dec 2013

Everything is exactly the same today. Be sure to stay strong on that opinion.

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
103. EVERYTHING has changed since the Sixties..Even the minimum wage was worth Three Dollars more in
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:03 AM
Dec 2013

buying power than it is now...Even Morning Joke admitted this today.

Check this out: Since 1978, the pay for the average CEO went up OVER 750 times,

while pay for the average WORKER has gone up just 5.7 times!

This is a TRAVESTY of injustice!

I began working in the late Sixties, and I'm working now, and I can testify to the fact

that this is a HORRIBLE era -- NOTHING is the same -- It's a whole different country.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
128. Three dollars more?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:30 AM
Dec 2013

Elizabeth Warren says that if the minimum wage were adjusted for inflation and for gains in productivity it would be $22.00/hr. today instead of $7.25.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/18/elizabeth-warren-minimum-wage_n_2900984.html

As you can imagine, GenXers feel like they're getting ripped off ... hard.

-Laelth

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
196. Yes, three dollars more in SPENDING Power..
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:42 PM
Dec 2013

Warren is right but she's making a different argument.

Yes, I can imagine how they feel they're getting ripped off -- millennials too...That being said, older workers are ALSO being

ripped off, since even with all their experience, they're frequently passed over for younger, often, foreign workers.

We didn't have the H1-B visa thing back in the day..In fact, that just started in Poppy Bush's administrations, although

Bill Clinton, to his shame, had no trouble keeping it going.

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
296. It certainly does, and this has been going on since the mid-nineties, at least.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:27 AM
Dec 2013

You would think that, with a recession on, especially, they'd show just a BIT more loyalty to American workers,

wouldn't you?

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
297. Another gift from Bill Clinton?
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:34 AM
Dec 2013

Frankly, I think it's treasonous for any American politician to advance the interests of foreign labor over that of the American worker, but I am rather biased in favor of labor.



-Laelth

whathehell

(29,270 posts)
330. You betcha...He didn't start it, but he continued it with no problems...As Michael Moore has said,
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:08 PM
Dec 2013

"Bill Clinton was the best Republican President we ever had".

I AGREE that it's treasonous, or something like it, to advance the interests of foreign labor over American workers,

and yes, I too am very biased in favor of labor, but then again, I really don't think you have to be...Who's country

is this, anyway?.....Read up on the TPP if you want to be FURTHER outraged on the "unpatriotic", anti-worker, anti-sovereignty stuff.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
59. What percentage of a person's income went to housing in the 60s?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:32 AM
Dec 2013

Housing costs more. It is really expensive to relocate, and difficult to do with kids, and risky to do if you don't have a job already lined up and are moving with the hope that you might find a job when you get there.

People I know who are job hunting are happy to relocate if they have a job to relocate to, but people keep suggesting that they up and move their families, and sell their houses that they still have a mortgage on, with the hope that they might find something after they move. It is not realistic.

kcr

(15,396 posts)
65. And then add to that you're likely moving to an area with a higher cost of living
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:35 AM
Dec 2013

if you're going to where the jobs are. It more than likely makes it an impossible barrier if you don't have a job. I just recently did this. I don't know how anyone can afford to do it if they don't have a job lined up. It's incredibly expensive. And even if you do. If they aren't paying for your relo, and many companies aren't doing this anymore, then it's still a barrier that many can't overcome.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
152. And you are likely moving from an area where you had at least a bit of family
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:17 PM
Dec 2013

help (babysitting, cheaper place to stay, etc.) to a place where you have no one. Anyone who picks up and moves without a firm job to move for is only going to go deeper in the hole.

We moved twice to follow jobs, but we sure as hell didn't do it hoping to find a job. We were hired already. And it was still insanely expensive and disruptive.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
236. Additionally, assuming that you can sell your existing house in an economically depressed area...
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 07:37 PM
Dec 2013

May not be a realistic assumption.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
66. Wow. That's too bad.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:35 AM
Dec 2013

It appears we have nothing left to discuss if this particular fact (from my point of view) can not be agreed upon.



-Laelth

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
239. My field assumes up front anyone entering it will move several times a year. It's a bit annoying. nt
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 08:01 PM
Dec 2013
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
54. Doesn't matter to someone that got pissed off over a cartoon.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:25 AM
Dec 2013

I have zero sympathy for people that are clueless to how hard it is for my generation to get a job that can take care of all our needs.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
57. They forget that GenXers
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:29 AM
Dec 2013

Probably have a house and kids. Relocation in the hopes that you might find a job where you relocate isn't really a realistic thing for people our age. It would be a good choice for someone very young without kids.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
116. I agree, we cannot just magically pick up and move for free!
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:10 AM
Dec 2013

Moving requires money! I think some just don't understand, because they are living comfortably without a care in the world. To them, we are a bothersome eyesore. A reminder of cold reality and not the comfy bubble they place themselves in.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
251. It might not be such a good choice even for someone very young
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:46 PM
Dec 2013

I tried "voting with my feet" and "moving to where the jobs were" (Los Angeles) when I was much younger, but got the runaround from nearly everyone, found that lots of "jobs" listed in newspapers weren't really jobs at all but merely calls for resumes, and heard tons of phony-baloney excuses for why people wouldn't hire me. The most "promising" job was working as a telemarketer selling magazines-- minimum wage to start, then mostly commission after that.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
187. Yep. Middle finger to everyone, right out front.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:15 PM
Dec 2013

Typical Libertarian who thinks everyone *but them* needs to work for free, then goes through every fallacy in the book in order to justify that position.


gollygee

(22,336 posts)
74. We're talking about GenXers, not 20-somethings
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:38 AM
Dec 2013

We're talking about people with houses and mortgages and kids in school. Who still owe money on their houses and can't afford to move with the hope that they might find a job when they get somewhere.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
99. Or they could just borrow $20,000 from mom and dad to start a business, right?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:01 AM
Dec 2013

I seem to remember someone else making a similar statement to yours. I forget who it might be, though. Something recent, like last year....

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
111. We GenXers have elderly parents
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:07 AM
Dec 2013

Or our parents have passed away. She keeps talking about "basement dwellers" like we're in our 20s and haven't left home. She doesn't understand the age of the people she's talking about.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
124. I'll go further to say that her language is right out of the "Entitled Republican" playbook.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:24 AM
Dec 2013

Most 20 somethings don't have parents who can fund their relocation or make other substantial investments in their children's lives. This belief that these young ( 20 or 40 year old "kids&quot can turn to their parents who apparently have pots of money they're waiting to give away is a dream for the vast majority of America.

There is a sense of entitlement and a lack of understanding or compassion that runs deep in her posts.

kcr

(15,396 posts)
130. So, everything's just like the 60's
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:35 AM
Dec 2013

and everyone's parent's has tens of thousands of dollars to dole out!

Your misconceptions explain your posts in this thread. If you had even a tenth of a clue about the reality of how most people live, regardless of what generation they belong to, you'd think differently.

tazkcmo

(7,374 posts)
363. WOW
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 04:37 PM
Dec 2013

Do you read the responses you get? Or do you just choose to ignore them? Post the ad. Simple. No that might show you're full of crud.

Why don't YOU relocate? Obviously you live in a place that has nothing but 40 year old Gen Xers living in their parent's basement. You're so full of your poutrage that you ignore the fact that many Gen Xers have baby boomer parents in THEIR basements. This baby boomer will be in that situation very soon.

Move to Somalia. It's your cup of tea. And I'm sure you love you some tea bags.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
12. I've been claiming that our kids won't be leaving our home...
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:45 AM
Dec 2013

it seems the new normal is that jobs cannot support you. I've got two friends buying multi-dwelling attached housing to take care of their aging parents right now. I applaud it from a family point of view, but financial realities were that elder-care costs are ruinious these days and despite their shockingly impressive-sounding job titles, it required multi-generational support to buy a house.

So things are changing. Certainly, for my X'er generation, the concept of a single income household was as far-fetched as flying cars -- technically possible but too much to expect in practice. For you guys, the concept of a single job being enough for a single person seems the same.

And somewhere, a 1%'er is laughing at all of us...

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
177. Been hearing alot about multi-generational housing this year ...
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:55 PM
Dec 2013

Lennar (national builder) launched a new product line of house designs last year for multiple generations:

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/future-housing-us-multigenerational-home-lennar

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
249. I like the concept, but hate that it is implemented....
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:03 PM
Dec 2013

through the pressures on a generation being deliberately underemployed because it is profitable to a few.

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
331. Definitely agree.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:20 PM
Dec 2013

As an option, wonderful.

But under- and unemployment plays a big role in this occurring for more than a few, who would otherwise not be.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
300. I agree. The 1% is having a good laugh at our expense.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 10:09 AM
Dec 2013

And they're richer than ever. Why shouldn't they laugh?

I applaud the concept and the practice of multi-generational housing, but I still don't like being poor.

If we agree that minimum wage, right now, if it had kept up with inflation and increases in productivity, would be $22.00/hr. had it remained the same as the minimum wage in 1962, then people without High School diplomas would be earning $22.00/hr. People with High School diplomas should be getting more than $22.00/hr. A college degree should be worth at least $30.00/hr. (i.e. $60K/year), and that's for an entry-level position. People with experience should make more than that.

Is that what the 2013 job market looks like? If not, then everyone should concede that this job market sux for GenX and for the Millennials.

-Laelth

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
13. While I acknowledge there are some Boomers
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:46 AM
Dec 2013

who don't "get" how difficult is the current job market -- and why -- I am hopeful that more of us will realize who are primarily responsible for radical income inequity (and the commensurate lack of jobs, particularly ones with reasonable remuneration). When we, as a majority, address the corporate megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics AND our global economy; we will have taken the first crucial step towards changing this reality.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
26. I'd guess over half of the boomers have had their own careers decimated while
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:03 AM
Dec 2013

entering their "peak earning years" (after 40 LOl!). We have watched our wages stagnate for 25 years and cost of living more than double over that time. We are not ignorant of the economic realities.

Like to point out that some traditionally decent jobs for HS educated women have disappeared, too -- secretary/admin asst/ receptionist) and those remaining positions now generally require a "degree".

Sales? You can be a good producer and you're still over when you reach ~45 years old.

Been brutal out there. BUT it's turning into a candidates market in some industries and the pendulum is swinging toward labor...

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
78. I'll have to reserve judgment
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:46 AM
Dec 2013

on whether " the pendulum is swinging toward labor..." I am heartened by the increasing number of strikes, but I want to see measurable change (higher minimum wage, banking regulations, elimination of corporate personhood, etc) before I'll be comfortable with that assessment.

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
82. You are right Chervilant.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:49 AM
Dec 2013

That is why I wholeheartedly believe that IF the majority of Americans will work together and elect a Proven Progressive as POTUS, who fights hard for economic (and other) justice. A politician who has repeatedly proven his willingness and dedication to
" address the corporate megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics AND our global economy; we will have taken the first crucial step towards changing this reality.
I realize that "party first" zealots reject Senator Bernie Sanders, mainly due to his "pedigree."
It will take a willingness to be open-minded. Not a "spoiler" mentality, which IMO is a corporatist ideology meant to scare us,
just like most of their declarations are. I KNOW how important it is to be able to replace justices in the SCOTUS as the old ones leave.
IMO, there is no other politician who has proven his/her willingness to fight TPTB for average Americans.
If this happens, America will usher in a "New Deal" era of the magnitude of FDR. Hopefully, like Reagan, we can have a bloodless coup
in the opposite direction.
It will be a fight, especially among party purists. It is a fight that I welcome.
The naysayers are legion and this post may be deleted, in actuality I am attempting to return our country to the values and pro-people
days of the Democratic party's best period.
The letter behind someone's name no longer indicates how they will govern. Their track record over decades, is the best indicator. Along with Senator Sanders continued outspokenness for the people, his long term actions speak for themselves.

blue14u

(575 posts)
272. I am with you 100%!!!
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:47 AM
Dec 2013

We need to rock this joint and get back to being Democrats, not republican lite anymore..

Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, or any real progressive.. I will stand with you!!

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
301. Thanks for reading the post.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 10:13 AM
Dec 2013

That's as much as I can ask for. I share your hopes, but I note that Americans under 30 have a more favorable impression of socialism than of capitalism. If that's so, the "first steps" you describe have already been made, and we, Generation X, did it. We reared those children (most of them, anyway). Credit where it is due.



-Laelth

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
361. Actually,
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 04:13 PM
Dec 2013

#Occupy has given me much hope, and I remain optimistic that we can forge a multicultural, multi-generational opposition to the corporate megs who've inflicted upon us this destructive radical income inequity.

RobinA

(9,966 posts)
14. I Get Your Point
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:51 AM
Dec 2013

about the economics, but for the love of god, can we stop making this about generations??? I, and my friends, graduated from college in 1980 into 10% unemployment as the steel industry collapsed and took down the economy around it as it fell. Although we do OK now, I, and many of the people I graduated with, will never completely recover the ground we lost. So be it. My point is not boo-hoo me, it's that I would find it easier to feel your pain if you would stop the generational stuff. In addition to graduating into a suck ass economy, you've got some hurdles we didn't. We had some you don't.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
304. Talking in terms of generations is useful.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 10:38 AM
Dec 2013

That's why people do it. You see equivalence ("you've got some hurdles we didn't. We had some you don't.&quot I think that's a false equivalence. My purpose, here, was to attack that false equivalence.

If we agree that minimum wage, right now, had it kept up with inflation and increases in productivity, would be $22.00/hr. if it had remained the same as the minimum wage in 1962, then people without High School diplomas would now be earning $22.00/hr. People with High School diplomas would be earning more than $22.00/hr. A college degree would be worth at least $30.00/hr. (i.e. $60K/year), and that's for an entry-level position. People with experience should make more than that.

Is that what the 2013 job market looks like? If not, then everyone should concede that this economic climate sux for GenX and for the Millennials. It is nothing like the world into which the Boomers were born.

All I am asking is for Boomers to acknowledge this fact and then respond accordingly ... by taking care of their children and grand-children. Is that too much to ask?



-Laelth

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
15. There must be some kind of sympathy & awareness.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:51 AM
Dec 2013

There is a big percentage of adults below the
age of 35 who live with their folks, including many college grads with huge debts.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
305. There are far too many of those, I agree.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 10:50 AM
Dec 2013

And, clearly, there is some sympathy and awareness. That said, having been one of those people at one time (a post-grad resident at my parents' house), I can assure you that it was no picnic. The pressure to get me out of the house was significant, and the presumption that my poverty was the result of my own failings was immense and painful.

As I said in the OP, I think the Boomers lack a frame of reference to understand how much harder it is to survive now. How else can I explain the behavior and attitudes of my own family members?



-Laelth

Ian_rd

(2,124 posts)
17. Have you read this article?
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:54 AM
Dec 2013

The Rise of the New Left by Peter Beinart.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/12/the-rise-of-the-new-new-left.html

It's speaks exactly to the sentiment that toon expresses and gives a convincing argument for some optimism about where we're headed.

KarenS

(4,280 posts)
19. Not just us Boomers, but our parents too,,,,
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:56 AM
Dec 2013

I don't let anyone get away with disparaging comments about 'the young people'.
Things ARE different.

I love my Gen-Xers and my Step-Millennials and my GrandKids.

We are watching them struggle,,, they're working hard and are just barely scraping by.
There's no job mobility and low pay in current jobs.
We step in when we need to with assistance for the big stuff,,, tires, car batteries or just whenever we see a need.
We've beefed up Birthdays and Christmas and even made up some reasons to send a card & a check ~ like "Christmas in July".

It's breaking my heart. We're trying to get ready for retirement BUT cannot and will not let our children go without the basics.

on edit:

While we can and do help financially what we cannot do is alleviate their stress related to financial insecurity.
Like I said, it's breaking my heart and it keeps me awake at night.

kmlisle

(276 posts)
171. Many Boomers are parents and Aunts and Uncles so We know whats going on
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:46 PM
Dec 2013

I have children and nephews and nieces in their late 20s who work 3 jobs to keep up. The assumption that we are oblivious as a generation also assumes we have no family with younger members. Every generation has its challenges and I would agree that this one with the combination of college debt and a terrible economy with narrowing opportunities and income inequality in many ways is especially difficult and stressful for young people.

On the other hand there are always opportunities that your parents did not have, if you can only see them and seize the day. The old Chinese proverb about Danger and Opportunity comes to mind. We brought our children up with the idea that they should look for a career that really satisfies them in ways more than making money. One where they could give back and enjoy and take pride in the work they did no matter what. My daughter, though poor in money, is very rich in these other qualities in her work and I am very proud of her.

My generation had its own challenges including lack of opportunities for women that have improved a lot over the years and blessings in that the jobs were there when we graduated. I would wish for all our next generations a job that lets you give back that you can take pride in and also that is sufficient to pay the bills and plan for the future. That last part is the tragedy of today's young workers. That is being taken from them slowly and surely.

blue14u

(575 posts)
274. Hopefully this OP
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 01:56 AM
Dec 2013

will help with the understanding and compassion needed to move

this country in a direction that will help your generation, and really all of

us who still struggle with the current market.

its hard, really hard to make it now...

Best of luck to you Laelth. Great post...

Dustlawyer

(10,504 posts)
22. Not all of us Boomers are ignorant of the situation, we love our kids!
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 09:59 AM
Dec 2013

I was for Carter, not Reagan. The US Chamber of Commerce and the Republicans switched tactics and no one realized at the time the significance and scope of what they were doing. Clinton seemed our guy until NAFTA.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
298. Thank you.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:39 AM
Dec 2013

GenX's expectations are so low that some sympathy and understanding is all many of us require. That said, some of us need more than that. Sadly, what we need most of all is cash. We're broke and hopeless, many of us, and we feel bad that we can't give our children the standard of living our parents gave us.

-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
313. Thanks for callling attention to this quote from my OP.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 11:23 AM
Dec 2013

To be honest, I have been shocked by how few people responded to that line. Nobody really asked what I meant by "real love" in this context.

For better or for worse, "real love" in a capitalist society means one thing and one thing only ... money. The truth of this assertion can be seen in our aphorisms.

"Put your money where your mouth is."
"Money talks, BS walks."

etc.

What GenXers need from their parents and grandparents is money. We're mostly broke, and we feel very bad, generally speaking, about the fact that we can't give our children the same lifestyle that our parents gave us. I'm not blaming anyone for this sorry state of affairs, but I do ask for some sympathy and understanding.

That said, plenty of Boomers are struggling and need more money too. Good luck trying to squeeze it out of my generation. Wish we could help. Most of us can not.

Thanks for the response.



-Laelth

Hubert Flottz

(37,726 posts)
321. Most of we 98% are in that same boat!
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 12:17 PM
Dec 2013

Up that same creek.

I wish you lots of luck and that's about all I have left to freely give. We old boomers tried to make Love free in the 60s...we always felt there wasn't enough in our world back then to go around. Looks like money still trumps love, here in the real world.

Edited for boo-boos.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
328. In my own time and on a few occasions, I have chosen love over money in my life.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 12:58 PM
Dec 2013

Now, I wonder whether that was a mistake. I hate even having to wonder about that.



Sadly, that's where we are. Thanks for the response.

-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
309. Thank you for the kind words.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 11:09 AM
Dec 2013

We are, after all, in this boat together.

I appreciate the support.



-Laelth

G_j

(40,382 posts)
43. thank you
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:18 AM
Dec 2013

As a boomer, I very much appreciate your post. Unfortunately, we experienced a prosperity which appears to be long gone.
I, for the most part, have lived the life of a "poor artist" by choice, but even a low wage job back then allowed someone to pay rent and feel relatively secure. I was able to be a rather free living "hippie" for most of my life. Some of my peers became "yuppified" and lived a wealthier life style than I. But there was more of a choice of ways to go. Ironically, we all now face frightening issues surrounding our retirements and twilight years.
I am sorry if many in our generation seem insensitive to your situation. Certainly now,
we are all finding ourselves in the same boat.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
316. We are all, definitely, in the same boat.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 11:39 AM
Dec 2013

Even the wealthy among us are in this same boat, though they like to ignore this fact. And many people from the Boomer cohort are feeling the squeeze just like the rest of us.

I definitely appreciate your sympathy and understanding. There is hope for the future, however. I take some pride in the fact that Americans under the age of 30 have a more favorable impression of socialism than of capitalism. We are making progress. For many of us, however, some real economic justice may arrive too late to improve our lives.



-Laelth

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
44. Part of the problem is how the educational system operates
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:19 AM
Dec 2013

For 50 years the higher ed system was predicated on a model where professors at universities were expected to raise a lot of money through grants, and in turn train a bunch of new scientists. The 'best' would have tens of postdocs, dozens of students, and lots of new Ph.D.'s per year. In the beginning, we started from a small base and so this was relatively easy and the new scientists found jobs in the growing Universitys. But beginning in the 80's, and steadily getting worse, the sources of federal and state research funding failed to keep up with the steady growth in new students/professors. At the same time the Universities were squeezed by state funding cuts so they stopped growing permanent faculty much, if at all. Yet the model of churning out newly minted Ph. D.s after using them for cheap labor still wasn't changed. Now we have reached the point where Professors in science specialties (and bio, biotech, etc)spend large amounts of their time writing grant proposals that only have a small chance of being funded. And their students see very few job opportunities because the slots just aren't there. And the focus of research has shifted to more immediate gratification topics that require fewer people, or can be outsourced.

It used to be (pre wwII) that the science system in this country was small, with professors doing much of their own research. We may end up going back to that model. But the profession needs to stop imagining that we are still in the 'glory days' where funding was easy and building an empire that churned out lots of new Ph. D.'s was the ideal goal.

Or we could pull our collective heads out and actually fund science and research at a higher priority than death. I won't hold my breath on that one.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
318. For many years, I was one of those graduate students.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 11:44 AM
Dec 2013

I made wages that were exploitative, at best, while still teaching more students than tenured professors and bringing more money into the school's coffers. Our collective decision to de-fund education was a tragic one, and it has had lasting results.

Thanks for the response.



-Laelth

ramapo

(4,634 posts)
52. You should blame the Boomers
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 10:24 AM
Dec 2013

The Boomers (yes I am one of them), along with those following close behind (GenXers) bought into the Reagan supply-side, morning-in-america nonsense. It has all been downhill ever since. Basically what happened is that once the Vietnam War and then Nixon were out of the way, Boomers were 'tired' and needed to focus on the self rather than the big picture.

Raine1967

(11,590 posts)
160. Not true.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:26 PM
Dec 2013

GenX is largely accepted as being born between 1961–1981.

Was born in 1967.

There are people in this generation that could have voted for/against Reagan.

kcr

(15,396 posts)
165. No.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:33 PM
Dec 2013

Gen X is not largely accepted to have been born starting in 1961. 1961 is tail end boomer. 1946-1964

Raine1967

(11,590 posts)
176. People born in '64 were able to vote for Reagan.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:55 PM
Dec 2013

Even by the standards you present, GXrs could have voted for Reagan.

I didn't -- I wasn't able to vote in a presidential election in 1980. was born in 67.







kcr

(15,396 posts)
192. For one thing, not that many of them did
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:32 PM
Dec 2013

And for another, a majority of Gen X was born later. Most of them weren't old enough.

Raine1967

(11,590 posts)
205. Fine. I didn't state this: "Gen X wasn't old enough to vote for Reagan"
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:10 PM
Dec 2013

I just wanted to make it clear that Gen X people could and did vote for Reagan. See my comments below, and you will see that I am not trying to allude to what you seem to think I am saying.

kcr

(15,396 posts)
216. You didn't state it. I did, because it's correct.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:47 PM
Dec 2013

To begin with, I was responding to someone who was blaming Reagan on Gen X.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
168. well those are the dates I like
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 12:39 PM
Dec 2013

but other widely accepted dates are 1944-1964 for Boomers and 1965-1985 for GenX.

But really ALMOST ALL of Reagan's victory margin in 1980 came from voters over age 30. That is, voters who were born before 1950. Voters born after 1950 were evenly split about 44-44-11, and were also only 23% of the electorate. Apparently many of us stayed home. http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_80.html

Even if you use the 1941-1961, many Boomers were born after 1950.

Raine1967

(11,590 posts)
181. Thanks for the info.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:02 PM
Dec 2013

I wasn't old enough to vote in 1980. I do accept that Boomers probably did vote in the largest margins for Reagan, but like the OP -- it's OP like I don't hold a great resentment about that.

I generally think a lot pf people were fooled or mislead about what reaganomics were actually offering to America.

I;m sure you and many others remember Morning in America?

30+ years later it's Mourning in America.

I blame politicians more than generations.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
188. but it was NOT Boomers
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:16 PM
Dec 2013

in 1980, voters over age 45 were 41% of the electorate and they voted for Reagan by about 55-40. Those are people born before 1935. Not Boomers. Voters age 18-21 were 6% of the electorate and voted for Carter 45-44.

It was the parents of Boomers who gave us Reagan.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
191. It was a combination of things that included Boomers.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 01:27 PM
Dec 2013

The Boomer generation was roughly 30% "Hippie", 40% "Nixon Youth" and 30% "Centrist".

Part of Reagan's victory came from that 10% difference. Part of it came from attracting more "centrists" of any age. And part of it came from older voters.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
203. but if only people under 30 got to vote
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:02 PM
Dec 2013

then Carter wins 45-44. So how is ANY of it due to Boomers?

There is another factor, if I compare it to 1976 I get what I expected. In 1976, voters under 30 voted for Carter over Ford by 54-46. So for Reagan to only lose that demographic by 44-45 was a significant gain. Either that or Anderson pulled a lot of votes from Carter, but since Anderson was a Republican, I am not sure why he would get more votes from Carter than from Reagan.

Another thing is, that voters under age 30 were 32% of the electorate in 1976 and only 23% of the electorate in 1980. So it seems that many young people in 1980 just stayed home and let their parents decide their future.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
213. Because of that 44.
Thu Dec 5, 2013, 02:39 PM
Dec 2013

Carter needed a larger margin among young voters to overcome Reagan's margin among older voters.

30% Nixon Youth instead of 40% Nixon youth and Carter wins.

Another thing is, that voters under age 30 were 32% of the electorate in 1976 and only 23% of the electorate in 1980. So it seems that many young people in 1980 just stayed home and let their parents decide their future.

Possibly. But you are talking about the end of the baby boom, so I don't know if the total population of under-30 went down too. Probably not enough to account for the entire drop, but it may have been a factor.