Anybody here think we can legitimately KEEP the troops in Afghanistan now?

[Ken Burch]

This...right after the corpse-pissing...just seems to me to have totally discredited the idea of keeping our troops there at all.

It's time to admit this is a dead loss and that our war presence there can't be positive at all.

Nobody in Afghanistan could still want us there after this shit-other than our lackey with the calf fetus hat.

Let's withdraw and negotiate already.

[The Magistrate]

1. No, Sir: This Is The Death-Knell

[bahrbearian]

2. If we can only win the hearts and minds, right?

[Ken Burch]

4. ..."The Boys will be home by Christmas"

n/t.

[Walk away]

3. Let's get out of there before we blow up a nursery or drown a bus load of old people!

We can't do anything right there...it's time to go!

[niyad]

5. that question would imply that we had a LEGITIMATE right to send them there in the first place

[Ken Burch]

7. It was intended to reach people who had previously defended the war.

That's why I framed it as I did.

[fascisthunter]

6. No but, the Sociopaths won't want the US military to leave

they aren't ok in the noggin.

[Marrah_G]

8. No- and the real losers in it all are the female citizens of Afgahnistan

My heart breaks for them. After all this war, decades and decades of war, they will continue to be viewed as less then human, even animals get to feel the sun upon their skin once in a while. I wonder if they will ever be free.

[TheMadMonk]

15. And no amount of outside PRESSURE will ever change that.

Afghani women will ufortunately have to fight the same battle as women elswehere and win their freedom for themselves.

Afghanistan was only ever about a fucking oil pipline. Liberating the people/women/children was only ever propoganda to sell the war to America.

Rather than being saddened that the world won't rearrange itself to suit you predjudices (noble as they might be) how about you bloody well be SICKENED by the number of women at home who DO have freedom of choice, but volluntarily don the shackles of subservience, AND would FORCE them upon others.

[Marrah_G]

17. My prejudices?

First of all let me say that I don't think staying there will free the women of Afghanistan. In fact, with each long war their situation gets worse. Your last paragraph is pre-judging" me and is frankly insulting as hell. I'm, going to drop this conversation with you and walk away because frankly, you just really pissed me off.

[TheMadMonk]

19. Prejudices are beliefs at odds with available evidence.

The world SHOULD damned well be a better place than it is, but unfortunatly it isn't.

Like it or lump it. The continuing suppression of women in those parts of the world where it's acceptable won't make the world a much worse place than it already is.

Ignoring the very real problem of women at home who actively work to return women to their "proper subservient place" under husband and God WILL make the world a worse place.

[99th_Monkey]

9. But, but, what about that pipeline that Big Oil needs through Afghanistan?

Has Unocal really given up on that, or are they pushing Obama
to stay REGARDLESS of how badly we fuck up the Afghan people
who's country US troops have been illegally occupiing now for
how many years? over a decade ... reining US murderous military
hellfire down on an indigenous people pretty much randomly , just
like we did in Iraq. That's become US military MO it seems.

Oh, and if US pulled out, our shadow gov't couldn't keep on
stealing and/or "directing" the nation's poppy trade.

bottom line: Oil pipeline and drug money for some fat cats.

[limpyhobbler]

10. I disagree.

I think the US has a legitimate role in Afghanistan if we chose it.

[niyad]

11. and what would that role be?

[limpyhobbler]

12. Only if we choose it.

This role:

The United States has made a long-term commitment to help Afghanistan rebuild itself after years of war. The U.S., along with others in the international community, currently provides resources and expertise to Afghanistan in a variety of areas, including humanitarian relief and assistance, capacity-building, security needs, counter-narcotic programs, and infrastructure projects. The U.S. also supports the Afghan Government in its efforts to establish a framework for a vibrant civil society, one that emphasizes democratic principles through a rule of law and creates accountable and transparent forms of government.

The United States and its international partners remain committed to helping Afghans realize their vision for a country that is stable, democratic, and economically successful, and to an Afghan Government committed to the protection of women's rights, human rights, and religious tolerance.

http://www.state.gov/p/sca/ci/af/

Also this:

As the President (Obama) and President Karzai agreed in May 2010, we will have a strategic partnership between our nations that provides a long-term framework for our bilateral cooperation in the areas of security, economic and social development, and institution building. This will ensure that the United States will be able to target terrorists and support a sovereign Afghan government so that our enemies cannot outlast us. We continue to support an Afghan Government-led process of reconciliation that would bring Afghans together and allow insurgents to come off the battlefield, provided they break from al-Qa’ida, abandon violence, and abide by the Afghan Constitution, including its provisions on respect for the rights of all Afghans, including women.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/defense/afghanistan

[chrisa]

16. We shouldn't be nation building when we have problems here at home.

Time to pull out the troops and spend that money here at home. We shouldn't spend one more dime of that money to help Karzai's kleptocratic government or the Afghan people (who all hate us and want us to leave).

It's time to face the fact that Democracy will never work in Iraq or Afghanistan. The people don't want it, and even both governments don't want it. Both countries need another dictator to keep the fundamentalists in check, which is something we shouldn't be helping them with.

[DefenseLawyer]

13. My Lai didn't end the Viet Nam War

but it was certainly a blow to the supporters of that war.

[SwampG8r]

14. i see this and

i see a huge disconnect between what is really happening in the field and what we are being told
the type of anger shown by these acts does not balance with the "success" of this mission
it seems the soldiers in the field are very upset and acting out repeatedly
this does not say "everything is wonderful"

[lonestarnot]

18. K & R!