HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Only a start, but one hug...

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:33 PM

 

Only a start, but one huge #%^*ing start

It's taken me a few days to process the recent agreement with Iran. On the one hand, it's just a short-term agreement that doesn't accomplish a heck of a lot. But part of my brain's been nagging at me, nagging that it's more than that.

Today, while listening to a news report about the joy this agreement is spreading throughout Iran, I realized what was big: it's that both peoples and both governments seem to genuinely want peace. After so many years of cold war with one-another, and hot wars with others, we may have all finally come to our senses. A small, starter agreement that would have been unthinkable a few years ago is done. And our own country has decided to work with other countries this time, and to not buy any old spew from our settlement-building-in-occupied-lands friends.

Peace. It can lead to anything.

57 replies, 6351 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 57 replies Author Time Post
Reply Only a start, but one huge #%^*ing start (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 OP
Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #1
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #3
Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #5
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #4
Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #15
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2013 #25
NuclearDem Nov 2013 #11
MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #12
Autumn Nov 2013 #17
Maedhros Nov 2013 #50
Autumn Nov 2013 #51
Rex Nov 2013 #21
scheming daemons Nov 2013 #23
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #24
MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #26
QC Nov 2013 #28
Scuba Nov 2013 #2
xchrom Nov 2013 #6
arcane1 Nov 2013 #7
Gothmog Nov 2013 #8
lark Nov 2013 #47
WillyT Nov 2013 #9
marble falls Nov 2013 #10
Voice for Peace Nov 2013 #13
Phlem Nov 2013 #14
Autumn Nov 2013 #16
Enrique Nov 2013 #18
obxhead Nov 2013 #19
lillypaddle Nov 2013 #20
MannyGoldstein Nov 2013 #22
ReRe Nov 2013 #27
Enthusiast Nov 2013 #38
ReRe Nov 2013 #40
rhett o rick Nov 2013 #43
ProSense Nov 2013 #29
TBF Nov 2013 #30
westerebus Nov 2013 #31
panader0 Nov 2013 #32
jazzimov Nov 2013 #33
BlueStreak Nov 2013 #55
Grateful for Hope Nov 2013 #34
DirkGently Nov 2013 #35
Left Coast2020 Nov 2013 #36
Enthusiast Nov 2013 #37
Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #45
Enthusiast Nov 2013 #49
bvar22 Nov 2013 #52
Enthusiast Nov 2013 #57
truedelphi Nov 2013 #56
Enthusiast Nov 2013 #39
KG Nov 2013 #41
Ikonoklast Nov 2013 #48
quaker bill Nov 2013 #42
lame54 Nov 2013 #44
pscot Nov 2013 #46
Autumn Nov 2013 #53
BlueStreak Nov 2013 #54

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:35 PM

1. YOU NEVER GIVE OBAMA CREDIT FOR ANYTHING THIRD PARTY MANNY!11

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

3. +3

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:37 PM

5. All 3

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

4. I was thinking the same....thank you Capt.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:17 PM

15. Of course you were

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:15 PM

25. Yes...of course I am!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:13 PM

11. MANNY NEVER LOVED HIM

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:15 PM

12. !!!!!

 

Must... Find... Delete... Post... Link...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:24 PM

17. Ah just fucking edit, make them happy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Autumn (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:48 PM

50. Yes, because we must make sure and keep our priorities straight.

 

Progress toward peace isn't important.

Making sure Obama gets credit, THAT'S important.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maedhros (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:53 PM

51. Well see, you got it.

Priorities Maedhros, priorities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:49 PM

21. Thank you Capt. Obvious.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:00 PM

23. Not a single mention of the admin in the op.....

 

Pretty obvious

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to scheming daemons (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:05 PM

24. Reading is fundamental

Today, while listening to a news report about the joy this agreement is spreading throughout Iran, I realized what was big: it's that both peoples and both governments seem to genuinely want peace.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to scheming daemons (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:17 PM

26. 3 positive mentions

 

A case of MDS you should think about treating.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:19 PM

28. Manny never really loved him!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

2. Yep, it's a start ....

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:39 PM

6. du rec.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:41 PM

7. Thousands of eager Iranian Iron Maiden fans may someday get to see them on tour.

 

There's no such thing as "us vs them" when it comes to Iron Maiden

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:44 PM

8. Brent Oil Prices dropped due to deal

Oil prices have been artificially high for a while due to oil traders' fears that a military conflict with Iran would shut down oil shipments. This deal reflects a slight easing of tensions and therefore a lower risk premium due to a potential military conflict.

The Neocons are crazy on this issue because Iran could hamper or shut off 25% of the world's oil supply without too much effort.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 03:47 PM

47. That's what they want!

They want the big oil companies to have another excuse to seriously jack up oil/gas prices so they will have more money to contribute to the congress-critter's re-election. Also, this could result in serious upward growth of their donations from the MIC as well and the AIPAC folks, They don't give a fig about national cost or lives lost, it's all about them and the 1%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:00 PM

9. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

 


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:05 PM

10. Its all good, Manny, even the small steps.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:16 PM

13. big rec.. peace is where it starts.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:17 PM

14. K&R!

-p

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:21 PM

16. Keep trying, Manny...



Autum




wait!!! Who the fuck am I channeling?????







It's all good, automatic MannyGoldstein rec.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:27 PM

18. the Iranian people are happy because they hate us

and they know the deal will lead to our destruction.

Just kidding! You are right. Normal people in both countries are happy. The warmongers in both countries are bummed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:46 PM

19. Yep

 

Excellent post Manny

Excellent post indeed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:46 PM

20. Based on the replies to your thread

I guess I'm an idiot. I thought you were serious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lillypaddle (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:58 PM

22. That makes two of us idiots

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:17 PM

27. Peace = Good

War = Bad

I choose Peace. And Love. And Truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 05:53 AM

38. You're not being pratical.

We must have war!


















Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:35 AM

40. You rascally rascal you...

...you didn't even have me for 16th of a second. Didn't need to use the sarcasm thingy either and hide in that little chimney, since "We must have war!" was sitting right next to your peace sign.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 09:58 AM

43. Bad and Good have nothing to do with it. War = Profit, therefore, we will have war.

 

:peace: (we have no smiley for peace)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:39 PM

29. The Deal is for Real

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:39 PM

30. We are so used to the war-mongering

that peace takes us back a little. I am thrilled to see the president accomplish this agreement - it's huge.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:53 PM

31. This just confirms Mike Bloomberg and Hilliary will run for President.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:03 PM

32. "both sides seem to genuinely want peace"

YEAH!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:08 PM

33. Wow, Manny - I finally get to Rec one of your threads!

Yes, it's just a start - but as you said it's one HUGE f@$&ing start!

Just like so many things with this Admin - it's only a start; but a HUGE start! I don't agree with O on everything, but he's started us down the path on a lot of things that aren't achievable today, but one day.....

And he has achieved a lot.

3 steps forward, 2 back is still 1 step forward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jazzimov (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 07:18 PM

55. I don't know if it is a step forward. It may be just another dead end.

 

But it feels like something that has a real chance of making a difference. We are in a new world now. The interwebs are bringing the people of Iran closer to us. And the Iranian regime must understand they cannot survive if they more more in the totalitarian direction. They were paying a huge price with the sanctions. This process could be a step toward normalization in the region.

If Iran were to become something of an ally -- which could take a decade to achieve given our history -- that whole region could be transformed. We are already friendly with Saudi, Turkey, Jordan, and many other states in the region. And we actually are moving toward normalization with Syria, albeit with Assad still in charge.

I don't know where that leaves Iraq. We don't get so much news from there anymore. But the times are a-changin'

This is exciting even if it ultimately isn't a step forward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:15 PM

34. Manny - this really deserves a rec.

K&R!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:34 PM

35. It IS a good start. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:52 PM

36. You should have heard the crap spewing out of O'Really's guests on....

...Cluster Faux tonight. Disgusting.

But I'm sure many will remember this beautiful life lost during those protests in the streets.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 05:52 AM

37. Peace is not a satisfactory solution.

What will we do with all this military?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 01:15 PM

45. The next battlefield is sub-Saharan Africa.

Oil, minerals, gold, diamonds-what's not to love about the next move in the Forever War?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 05:48 PM

49. "Strategic minerals"

That's why the Neo-Cons have to win an election hook or crook. This could get ugly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:59 PM

52. The currrent administration already removed the biggest roadblock

...preventing the IMF, Global Banks, and Resource Extraction Industries from working their Special Magic in North Africa.


” For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD27Ak01.html


Want to know who really "WON" in Libya?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 27, 2013, 07:53 AM

57. I know it.



We're not going to have long term peace even though it would be easy to achieve. Greed will win out.

Paul Wolfowitz was on Chris Hayes last night essentially arguing that peace with Iran would be no good because they just can't be trusted. Why would MSNBC enable a proven liar like that? Duh—General Electric. I mean, Wolfowitz has zero credibility. But he talked Chris down and frustrated him the entire time. Wolfowitz actually won the argument. I expect chickenhawk forces on the right to win out. They have been screaming for war with Iran for years. They always get their way. They win, the world loses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 07:29 PM

56. Much of the weaponry and outright war blood monies are being diverted to

Bring all of us here in the USA the wonderful and total Surveillance State.

You will never be more secure! TV's that spy on you; cameras everywhere, and the NSA will have copies of all your emails, so should you accidentally delete one you really need, they can send you a backup.

The future's so bright, we should all wear shades!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:01 AM

39. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch.....nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:55 AM

41. another act in the kabuki theater.

yay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KG (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 05:40 PM

48. Really. Iran decides to prop up a political foe. Why would they do such a thing?

That phrase is overused by those who cannot accept that reality sometimes just....is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 07:13 AM

42. Peace Agreements

can always be criticized as not being "harsh enough" toward the "enemy".

Peace is precisely not harsh. Agreements are things both sides consent to. I have not heard of an agreement where one side consents to being bombed by the other.


Peace agreements are always attacked by the "manly" crew as weak and shortsighted, simply because they can do it and seem more "manly" and "brave" doing so. Of course, they are being "manly" and "brave" with the lives of other people's children, but that never holds them back.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 12:47 PM

44. Their new prez is a huge improvement

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 02:54 PM

46. Peace

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 07:00 PM

53. I so want to rec this again.

But I can't so heres a kick for Peace.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2013, 07:11 PM

54. Let's look at Iran's position

 

Obviously we've had a cold war going on 30 years. Before that we installed their leaver and propped him up, while extracting resources for the benefit of the corporations, not for the benefit of the Iranian people.

Meanwhile, we were perfectly happy for Israel to load up on nukes and allowing them to be the belligerent part in the region.

I don't see how anybody could begrudge Iran wanting to try to level the playing field, with both Israel and the US lording over them, with the implied threat of a devastating military strike at any time.

Not that this Iranian regime has been choir boys. They have funded what is essentially the guerrilla resistance in the region, and that is pretty unsettling to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and others. (And Israel, of course.)

This agreement does nothing by itself, other than to give both parties 6 months to build some trust. That is very important, and I hope it leads to a better climate in the region.

The ultimate solution has to protect the arab countries from Israel as much as the reverse. And that will not change quickly. This could be nothing, or it could be the first small step on a path that leads to the Middle East being as stable as Europe.

Traditionally Israel and their clients in our government (Schumer, Graham et al) have been quick to sabotage anything that looked like it had the possibility of actually moving toward peace. The hard-liners that control Israel have calculated they best bet is to dominate their neighbors through force. And we are seeing some of that same talk from the usual suspects this time. But this one feels different. This is a very smart plan that Kerry and Obama have put together. There really is no reasonable basis for Israel to object because it is essentially a 6-months stand-still and if things don't progress during the 6 months, we revert to the status as of last week.

Maybe it is nothing. But this one seems a lot different from all the other negotiations we have seen in the region.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread