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Mon Nov 18, 2013, 07:21 AM

‘Rape porn’ possession to be punished by three years in jail, David Cameron to announce

Anyone caught possessing pornography which depicts rape could be jailed for three years under new government plans.

It is against the law to publish images of rape but a legal loophole means possession of the material is currently unpunishable.

The changes to the law, which will be introduced in January, will bring England and Wales in line with Scotland, where the offence carries a maximum sentence of three years in jail.

Mr Cameron is targeting websites which show videos and images of rape – whether they claim they are ‘simulated’ or not.

The prime minister has previously attacked websites which show the material, saying: ‘These images normalise sexual violence against women – and they are quite simply poisonous to the young people who see them.’

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/17/rape-porn-possession-to-be-punished-by-three-years-in-jail-david-cameron-to-announce-4189512/

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Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #762
BainsBane Nov 2013 #781
opiate69 Nov 2013 #786
BainsBane Nov 2013 #787
opiate69 Nov 2013 #788
BainsBane Nov 2013 #789
opiate69 Nov 2013 #791
BainsBane Nov 2013 #793
opiate69 Nov 2013 #794
BainsBane Nov 2013 #795
opiate69 Nov 2013 #796
BainsBane Nov 2013 #799
opiate69 Nov 2013 #801
BainsBane Nov 2013 #806
Bonobo Nov 2013 #800
opiate69 Nov 2013 #802
BainsBane Nov 2013 #780
Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #782
BainsBane Nov 2013 #783
Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #784
BainsBane Nov 2013 #785
opiate69 Nov 2013 #792
BainsBane Nov 2013 #779
smirkymonkey Nov 2013 #818
BainsBane Nov 2013 #807
Bonobo Nov 2013 #634
Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #646
backscatter712 Nov 2013 #694
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #735
AngryAmish Nov 2013 #673
eqfan592 Nov 2013 #704
AngryAmish Nov 2013 #707
rrneck Nov 2013 #758
chervilant Nov 2013 #715
NuclearDem Nov 2013 #717
In_The_Wind Nov 2013 #722
Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #763
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #770
Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #771
orpupilofnature57 Nov 2013 #778
LittleBlue Nov 2013 #790
nolabear Nov 2013 #797
JaneyVee Nov 2013 #798
Kurska Nov 2013 #803
loli phabay Nov 2013 #812
Kurska Nov 2013 #804
Kurska Nov 2013 #805
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #811
Kurska Nov 2013 #813
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #814
Kurska Nov 2013 #815
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #816
Kurska Nov 2013 #817

Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 07:37 AM

1. I wonder if this really solves the core problem or just band-aids it ... what drives

some to such disrespect of others. The symptoms might be masked, but the underlying behavior remains. Given all in all, this is a good step forward by reducing behavior imitation.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:47 PM

60. It drives consensual sexual activity underground.

Ask the LGBT community what that's like...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #60)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:33 PM

266. Are you seriously conflating rape simulation with gay sex?

You forgot the sarcasm tag.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #266)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:45 PM

278. Are you seriously saying that adults

 

engaged in consensual role-play should be punished if David Cameron doesn't like it?

Are they going to haul in Hollywood producers for depicting rape? Will they arrest makers of movies that depict murders?

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #278)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:51 PM

286. Did I say rape pornography should be illegal? No. Try responding to what I actually wrote next time.

Instead of assuming I'm arguing something which I am not.

My statement was made relative to the conflation of rape pornography with gay sex. It had absolutely nothing to do with the potential illegality of rape pornography.

Comprende?

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #286)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:54 PM

291. I absolutely comprende, but you're missing the point...

 

Your question is ridiculous and irrelevant in the first place.

Yeah, that's right - people should be free to be gay, and they should be equally free to have fetishes involving consensual role-play among adults (including filming it if they feel like it).

Free is free, there's no need to compare or prioritize one form of freedom over another. That's divide and conquer.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #291)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:59 PM

298. No, the absurdity is inherent in the conflation of rape pornography, which justifies sexual violence

and gay sex, which does nothing of the sort. To argue that both are equally ambivalent is to be absolutely foolishly shortsighted.

This is not me discussing the legality of either but instead challenging the ridiculous assertion that any sexual practice is automatically equitable to any other. Even sexual practices that depict and help justify sexual violence. That's a stupid thing to say.

Again, I say, if you want to respond with a vague diatribe on "freedom," make sure you're responding to the right argument. Otherwise it comes off as if you didn't even bother to read what I wrote.

Legality or illegality is not the same as moral and immoral. Not in the slightest. There are all sorts of legal actions one can take that provides for substantive harm against one's self or someone else.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #298)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 06:33 PM

335. Okay, enough.

 

You asked a question of backscatter712 that completely mischaracterized what backscatter712 said. This absolutely was not "that any sexual practice is automatically equitable to any other" - your strawman - but that making (consensual!) sexual practices illegal fucks up people and society by driving people underground, something to which gays can also attest.

So what?

Never mind with a further response in this vein, we can keep it much simpler: Are you for or against a law such as Cameron's? If you're against, that's good, and there's no need for us to have further discussion here. (If you're for it, there's also little need to have further discussion, I suppose.)

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #60)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 07:21 PM

395. Please explain your assertion.

What 'consensual sex' involves rape porn?

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 07:03 AM

613. Consensual rape? n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:43 PM

474. it band aids it

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 07:58 AM

2. is 'A Clockwork Orange' going to be banned?

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:32 AM

3. I guess owning Deliverance will be a felony...

I have a real issue with banning horror porn. Unlike child pornography, all parties are consenting adults. This smacks if censorship.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:52 PM

287. Smacks? This is censorship...

 

Far worse, in fact: This is a way to justify an entirely arbitrary, total police and surveillance state. Nothing more. Disgusting.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #287)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:22 PM

503. I agree.

I was approaching this in a delicate manner as I didn't know how some on DU would take it. I figured it would result in a flame fest between free speech and those who don't understand that fake rape porn movies are just actors doing their thing for money. Given the 500 post shitstorm that has followed - I was correct.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #287)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:42 AM

528. Nothing more disgusting? How about raping a woman

and calling that pleasurable?

Sick, reading all of you creeps defending your "right" to watch woman be beat up and tortured sexually is what is sick.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #528)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 07:23 AM

617. once again there is the words consendual, simulated and depiction

 

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #528)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:27 PM

768. +1000

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:39 AM

6. Tougher question: "I Spit On Your Grave"

 

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:24 PM

210. That was my thought. What about movies that depict murder? Is it a crime to depict it in a movie?

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Response to lostincalifornia (Reply #210)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:20 PM

465. In a Snuff film ? YES, as it should be.

 

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #465)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 10:44 PM

489. You know I am talking about Hollywood movies with actors, not actual murders

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Response to lostincalifornia (Reply #489)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 05:59 AM

606. And You know we're not talking about ' Freedom of Speech ' or censorship of Art,

 

but Hannis perversion, not Nina Hartley .

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #606)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 08:44 AM

649. Perhaps I missed it, but I did not see in the article anything to distinguish a BBC

or legitimate movie from an illegal one?

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Response to lostincalifornia (Reply #649)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 06:24 PM

776. The theme and plot ?

 

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:46 PM

239. Clockwork Orange is one of my favorite movies ever.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Clockwork Orange is not a porn movie and the rape scenes were disturbing as they should be. Rape porn is trying to appeal to some viewers. Big difference.

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Response to NealK (Reply #239)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:19 PM

464. A Classic I've owned forever .

 

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Response to NealK (Reply #239)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:17 PM

500. A (relatively) modern masterpiece of a film.

 

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Response to NealK (Reply #239)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:14 AM

563. I could never make it through that movie, but I don't think it should be banned just because I found

it too disturbing to watch.

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Response to NealK (Reply #239)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 06:45 AM

810. " Some viewers " ? Straw Dogs is also a great movie...

 

and rape is part of that plot, not the whole plot .

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Response to Garion_55 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:18 PM

462. Part of the plot, not the entire content of the movie .

 

be real

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:37 AM

4. This is a slippery slope...what about BDSM or other?

 

There are dozens of sex fetishes" that are between consenting adults and this is purely censorship. Not much of a leap to start targeting more and more.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 12:00 PM

10. Exactly. This is censorship and repression of free speech.

Cameron's pandering to his authoritarian base. This week, he's pandering to the crotch-sniffers. Next week, he'll try to censorship "terrorist plotting" from the Internet, by banning violent video games.

Shitbags like Cameron just aren't happy unless they're sticking their dick of repression in everyone's ass.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:48 PM

62. BDSM porn is almost required to be simulated rape.

Cameron wants to wank himself off by throwing people in prison for consensual sex.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:05 PM

68. true, its submission and domination and about power.

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:32 PM

89. Next thing they'll be actually prosecuting rapists

What is the world coming to? It's just not safe for violent predators to be who they are anymore. Truly awful.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #89)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:43 PM

98. you do know rape and consensual rape depictions are two different things

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #98)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:45 PM

100. Look up rape in the dictionary

Rape by definition means the absence of consent. It's not that difficult of a concept.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #100)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:47 PM

106. Yes, but this proposed law even covers "simulated" rape..

which presumably would be among consenting adults..

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #100)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:48 PM

107. look up consensual and depiction and simulated while you are there

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #107)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:51 PM

111. Are we talking about rape porn or not?

Because if so, consent has nothing to do with it. It depicts rape (and sometimes is actual rape) because the twisted assholes that watch it are violent predators in waiting.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #111)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:55 PM

116. See #35

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #116)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:57 PM

119. See what I've written

before directing me to arguments I've already addressed. The only ones conflating BDSM with rape here are the defenders of rape porn.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #119)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:02 PM

122. Yes I've have. You have my sympathy.

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #122)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:06 PM

129. So in other words

You have nothing to say about the subject matter and cannot counter my point.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #129)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:08 PM

133. Not at all, you cant make differentiation between real and simulated so

 

so why bother?

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #133)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:10 PM

135. its word blindness

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #135)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:11 PM

136. True that, and someone doesn't get out much

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #136)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 07:10 PM

387. I recall quite distinctly

your own disclosure along those lines in a thread almost a year ago.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #387)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 08:45 PM

437. Likely because I was in a serious car accident

 

But unlike some people I worked on that and got out and about.
For example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018516977

But you do have my sympathy

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #437)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 08:51 PM

439. No, it had to do with your perceptions of your ability

to attract women.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #439)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 08:55 PM

444. Awww so sweet, really grasping to try and put a knife to me

 

Keep trying! Come on keep making that attempt to plunge that metaphorical knife in and twist it!

It exemplifies those few better qualities you have.

On a side note, we had wonderful conversation about you, me and another DUer.

Was a good laugh

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #444)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:02 PM

450. You're welcome

I do my best, even if it pales in comparison to your particular talents.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #450)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:04 PM

451. Zing! Its the kind of biting commentary one can expect from you

 

Good Job!

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #451)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:18 PM

461. Consider yourself flattered

I remember very few posts from that long ago. I remember at the time feeling bad for you and wanting to say something encouraging, though not knowing what to say. Then later when I read what you had to say about women, I no longer felt bad.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #461)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:20 PM

466. Oooh another Zinger!

 

Well an attempt at one

Amazing how a person can debase themselves by making such comments.

You have my pity and sympathy. It must be very bad for you.


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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #466)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:22 PM

468. No, it wasn't an attempted zinger

just a rendition of how I felt.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #468)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:25 PM

469. Snicker, I understand quite well what it is.

 

You actually do have my pity

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #135)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:05 PM

186. Would that be like truth blindness?

As in refusing to read anything that contradicts your preexisting views?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #186)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:52 PM

247. pot, kettle and all that.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #247)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:07 PM

250. right

blood from a turnip.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #186)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:46 PM

727. Are you into self-diagnosis now?

Your comments are quite hilarious considering that you have the inability to understand how BDSM can be consensual. I'm guessing you get all kinds of confused when you see movie stars from horror movies appear in interviews after the fact. Just how do they die on screen and then seem fine the next day? Do you also get apoplectic when you see people who insist that they can, in fact, believe it's not butter? Do you hate objective reality for no reason whatsoever or did it hurt a family member or something?

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Response to EOTE (Reply #727)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 03:09 PM

731. You're not even bothering to read what I write

I've specifically said the opposite about BDSM and pointed out the only ones conflating rape (which is by definition non-consensual) with BDSM are the defenders of rape porn. Don't tell me what I think when you can't follow the most basic points. Why do you bring up BDSM? It seems to me that YOU are the one who can't distinguish that from rape.

Your horror movie shtick again. Jesus. What blather. I've addressed that epic fail of a point. Your continual effort to deflect from the actual issue are tedious beyond belief. The law isn't about horror movies, as you well know. You could at least figure out what the law actually covers, but then you might be in the actual position of having to address the subject rather than your invented distractions.

No one is taking your precious rape porn away. You don't live in the UK. American men are free to spend their days watching stuff that indulges their fantasies about raping and mutilating women to their hearts content. All is well in the misogynist universe.

I have no interested in your fantasies about what I have written, just as you clearly have no interest in what I actually have said. Christ this is boring. You could at least find something to say I haven't already explicitly addressed, and in fact argued the opposite of what you claim.

I'm done suffering your illinformed ramblings.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #731)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 03:15 PM

732. The problem is that I AM reading what you write.

Far too much of that utterly nonsensical tripe. You believe that consensual rape-porn doesn't exist because rape, by definition, is non-consensual. I'm sorry, but you'll find the typical person finds crap like that far too stupid to respond to. You see, we're discussing a film/video PORTRAYAL of a non-consensual act that is in itself consensual. Understand? I know it's a difficult concept to understand, but things get confusing when looking at video/film on a screen. You see, those actors you see on television shooting at each other? When they start bleeding and give their final words, they're not ACTUALLY dying, they're just playing pretend. So, by you claiming that consensual rape porn cannot exist, you are telling the rest of the world that you are incapable of understanding things and as such, they can't be bothered to attempt to have a constructive conversation with you. You should be thankful to the ones who are actually taking the time to attempt to explain things to you. Most people wouldn't take the time and would simply respond with an "Awww, isn't that cute!"

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Response to EOTE (Reply #732)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 07:44 PM

740. Obviously not

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2013, 08:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Or you wouldn't continually assert I am arguing things I have specifically argued against.
You are wrong on every single point. Clearly you have a heated debate going on with yourself, but don't put that on me.

Try reading the actual law. It's posted below. You won't of course, because all you care about is your hypothetical ramblings. So you go on about how I'm so uninformed because I'm not interested in some member's online sexual practices. You and he can compare notes to your hearts content. If people want to claim some sort of expertise because consume pornography of women raped and tortured, that is really their problem.

Since we're on the subject, why don't you tell everyone what you know about rape? Many, if not most, of the women in this thread and some of the men know exactly what real rape is, the stuff others here enjoy watching reenacted. You clearly haven't read any of the literature showing a casual link between watching simulated rape and actual rape, despite claiming that's you've done a close reading of my posts.

I specifically deal with the issue of consensual vs. non-consensual porn while discussing the British law. I point out that rape by definition means the absence of consent, and if consent is given it is not rape. I do not conflate rape porn with BDSM and horror movies. That is YOU. However, the whole concept of consent in porn is problematic, as some other members have dealt with more articulately than I. You clearly have made a point of ignoring those posts as well.

Your porn is protected by law. You are outraged that I express ideas you dislike. You insist rape porn should be protected while I don't have a right to express my views of it. That's some twisted notion of freedom of expression.

Let me make this perfectly clear: I do not care what porn you watch or about anything having to do with your sex life. Your life has nothing to do with me, and I thank heaven above it never will. Clear enough? I'm not doing anything to stop you or anyone else from getting off on any kind of porn. My crime here is having the audacity to think and write something that you don't like. Deal with it, but leave me out of it.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #740)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:44 AM

766. Oh really, you didn't express gems like this one dozens of times?

"Look up rape in the dictionary

Rape by definition means the absence of consent. It's not that difficult of a concept. "

When referring to rape porn, which does NOT feature hte absence of consent? Did you not make this ridiculously stupid argument over and over again? You still don't understand that rape porn IS NOT RAPE. Also, you've failed to address any of the posts made to you asking how if the access to such pornography increases the incidences of rape, why the hell has rape dropped substantially as the access to this type of pornography has increased substantially. Your crime here is not writing things which others disagree with, it's making one ridiculously stupid assertion after another even AFTER you've been educated on the subject. Ignorance is forgivable, stupidity is much less so.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #731)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:29 PM

769. +1000

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #133)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:17 PM

140. Here is the point

I'll spell it out very clearly for you. Rapists like rape porn. Rape pron increases rape. The UK is banning rape porn because they want to (shock and horror) cut down on rape.

Additionally, some rape porn is actually rape. There are farms in Thailand where young girls are forcibly kept and raped to produce that shit misogynists pay to watch. You pretend it's all simulated, but I don't think you actually believe it. If people didn't believe it was real, they wouldn't pay for it.


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Response to BainsBane (Reply #140)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:19 PM

142. Wow...seriously, you believe that?

 

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #160)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:34 PM

161. Priceless, you can't even comprehend there are two separate elements we are talking about...

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #161)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:36 PM

162. You really took time to read those links

and fault me for not reading your mind. You really have no intention of discussing in good faith. But then, that would require actually having something to say or some actual evidence.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #162)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:37 PM

163. Again, you simply don't or won't get what is being said.

 

And I posted real evidence already. You just didnt bother to read it.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #163)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:40 PM

166. Your post has nothing to do with the subject

Porn, along with all other violent crimes, is in decline because of demographic factors. So? That in no way supports your contention that porn is entirely simulated and harmless. Jesus. You could at least try a search on the actual subject matter.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #166)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:41 PM

168. You still don't bother to address your own words.

 

How about you stick what you actually said? But that would be to hard wouldn't it?

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #168)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:45 PM

170. Which words?

You really have a knack of posting a lot while saying nothing. If you are asking about the link between violent porn and actually rape and violence against women, there is an extensive body of academic literature on the subject. Here is a Ted talk that summarizes the effects.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125528750

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #170)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:49 PM

175. I leave the "knack of posting a lot while saying nothing" to you. Youve said nothing as usual that

 

is remotely correct in the context of what you stated.

"Are we talking about rape porn or not?

Because if so, consent has nothing to do with it. It depicts rape (and sometimes is actual rape) because the twisted assholes that watch it are violent predators in waiting."

You simply talk in circles, thinking the moment I stop posting it's some kind of twisted victory, because I didnt feel like pursuing an issue with a non-entity that can't even line their arguments up correctly.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #175)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:52 PM

179. As I said, there is a body of academic literature

showing a casual relationship between porn and rape. I'm going to assume (just a hunch) you don't have internet access to a university library, which leave us with old studies through Google Scholar.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=causal+relationship+porn+rape&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C24

If you do have access to databases available through a university, I can easily do a search for you.

Yet you are so resistant to learning anything, you refuse to watch even the Ted video, so I won't hold my breath for your willingness to actually read.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #140)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:19 PM

144. Wow...seriously, you believe that?

 

Hmm double posted.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #140)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:23 PM

149. So this must be simulated too I guess: The headlines are shouting RAPE IN DECLINE

 

Official figures just released show a plunge in the number of rapes per capita in the United States since the 1970s. Even when measured in different ways, including police reports and survey interviews, the results are in agreement: there has been an 85% reduction in sexual violence in the past 25 years. The decline, steeper than the stock market crash that led to the Great Depression, is depicted in this chart prepared by the United States Department of Justice:



As the chart shows, there were 2.7 rapes for every 1,000 people in 1980; by 2004, the same survey found the rate had decreased to 0.4 per 1000 people, a decline of 85%.

Official explanations for the unexpected decline include:

less lawlessness associated with crack cocaine;
women have been taught to avoid unsafe situations;
more would-be rapists already in prison for other crimes;
sex education classes telling boys that “no means no.”
But these minor factors cannot begin to explain such a sharp decline in the incidence of rape.

There is, however, one social factor that correlates almost exactly with the rape statistics. The American public is probably not ready to believe it. My theory is that the sharp rise in access to pornography accounts for the decline in rape. The correlation is inverse: the more pornography, the less rape. It is like the inverse correlation: the more police officers on the street, the less crime.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/06/rape-porn-and-criminality-political.php

Really you need to go back to Fluff posts.
Either that or come down here to New Orleans and walk down Bourbon St during Mardis Gras.
You'll get a crash course in human sexual expression 101.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #149)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:38 PM

164. All violent crimes are in decline

in the industrialized world because of the decline of the young adult male population.
What is your point?

It's hardly a shock you're a big supporter of misogynist porn. No one could accuse you of being inconsistent.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #164)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:39 PM

165. hahah..."misogynist porn"

 

Go back to your fluff. You lose



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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #165)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:49 PM

174. Are you suggesting that rape and mutilation are not misogynist?

Really? What was Ted Bundy to you? A champion for civil rights?
You really are not a person who should accuse others of lack of intellectual depth.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #174)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:51 PM

176. I am suggesting you are a master of placing things out of context.

 

Seriously, as I've said before you should work for Fox.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #176)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:54 PM

180. Out of context?

How?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #180)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:04 PM

185. Maybe if you bothered to read your own posts for once...

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #185)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:09 PM

190. I know what I've written

You continually respond with snark without every clarifying your point. I provided evidence for post parts of my post you found so absurd 1) that some rape porn is produced non-consensually via human trafficking, aka slavery; 2) there exists an extensive body of academic literature showing a causal link between porn and actual rape, meaning watching porn can increase someone's likelihood of committing rape.

You, on the other hand, provided crime data showing reported rapes are in decline, which does not related directly to this discussion at all. I suppose you assume because rape is down it means that porn does not lead to actual rape, but that is an assumption without evidentiary basis. There are far too many factors that account for the decline, the most significant of which is demographic.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #190)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:10 PM

191. Obviously you dont understand what you've written very well.

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #191)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:10 PM

193. So Obe wan, tell me what have I written?

Is it really so difficult for you to articulate what it is you have an issue with?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #193)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:13 PM

195. I've said it repeatedly. If you dont get it. Thats on you

 

have a conversation with Violet_Crumble. You two seem to operate on that same wavelength

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #195)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:16 PM

197. LOL

Check mate.

That's just sad.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #195)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:18 PM

199. I accept your surrender.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #199)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:24 PM

209. Woot !! Youve such a brilliant, searing intellect!

 

I stand in awe of that fearsome..err... genius!

Now go bask in the mirror, your awesome!

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #209)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:27 PM

218. Not briliant

but I've outmatched you here. You gave up.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #218)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:29 PM

220. I did? Gosh thanks for telling me so.

 

To be in your presence is simply enough. Your mind numbing posts bespeak volumes about that mighty intellect at work behind the keyboard.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #220)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:32 PM

225. It's unfortunate that you couldn't be bothered

to read any of the studies or news articles I provided links to, or watch the Ted video. You might have learned something. It's hardly my fault that you refuse to examine any evidence or engage in the subject matter.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #225)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:34 PM

227. Sounds like your Modus Operandi actually. Besides what does it matter, you won remember?

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #227)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:45 PM

238. Actually, winning doesn't much matter to me

but it's clear you have absolutely nothing to say.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #238)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:50 PM

244. Correction, nothing much to say to you. I mean seriously you even didnt get the initial argument

 

Why bother bring it down to enough so you'd get it?

God knows I tried. I posted relevant stats. You didn't. You tried to address issues that were not in your original premise. psting stats that had nothing to do with the premise.

A person can only take it down so far. So why bother?

Instead I can make you at least feel happy about your "Winning"

Here for you:

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #218)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:50 PM

729. Wow, you've made an internet poster give up on attempting to educate you in the slightest out of

sheer frustration. YOU WON! You should know that ignorance is not something to aspire to. Typically only republicans consider ignorance an asset.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #729)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 03:17 PM

733. Look in the mirror

You can't even follow the discussion. Since you have no idea what I've written, I hardly take your charges of ignorance seriously. Evidently caring more about victims of rape and human trafficking than the misogynists devoted to that porn makes me ignorant. Actually it means I have a conscience.

As for your BFF, I didn't make him give up. He has nothing to say and chose to relinquish the subject matter for personal digs at women, which actually fits well with the subject at hand. Some people argue a position and some perform it.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #733)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 03:22 PM

734. Uhhh, you still manage to entirely miss the point.

By you bringing up your usual vague allusions to human trafficking, you're showing that you still don't understand that we're talking about SIMULATED rape. Your conscience is no better than mine, in fact, I'd wager that by you continually needing to control the consensual activities of others, you're showing a very dirty conscience indeed. I'm so content with my own conscience that when others are not harming people, I have no desire to tell them what to do.

The only thing you've really attempted to do on this thread is to show a relationship between access to porn and incidences of rape, something you've failed miserably at showing. In fact, when called out on it, you haven't even bothered to respond to those comments. Seems to me you're just demonstrating your capacity for mindless bleeting than anything else. Hey, at least you're consistent.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #195)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:21 PM

206. I ask one very simple question and you now know how I think?

If you can't pay someone the courtesy of answering a question you get asked, don't drag them into any of yr back and forth flaming with others.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #206)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:25 PM

212. Lets see who jumped in....?

 

Courtesy isn't rated.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #212)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:26 PM

213. That would be me. Why? Aren't I allowed to do that?

Again, you have no fucking clue what I think, as all I did was ask you if you think real porn clips should be banned, a question you flat out refused to answer...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #213)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:27 PM

216. Gosh you didn't bother to read my response posts earlier did you.

 

And really, I don't care that much what you think.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #216)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:29 PM

221. You mean you went back and edited a post and answered the question?

And if you don't care what I think, don't pop up elsewhere in this thread behaving as though you know what I think. That's just weird, and the whole carrying on coz I dared to respond to a post where yr going on about me comes across as just a bit on the authoritarian side...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #221)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:31 PM

223. Snicker, No the post is there. again if you resort to simply saying untruths thats your issue

 

and Project much? "I dared to respond to a post where yr going on about me comes across as just a bit on the authoritarian side..."

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #223)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:36 PM

230. Y'know, the civil and normal reaction would have been to just answer someone's question...

I'm not fascinated enough by you to waste time wading through yr tsunami of posts in this thread, and you clearly aren't interested enough to do anything but get nasty at anyone who dares to ask you a question, so I won't hold out hope you'd just link to something where you've already answered that question.

Projecting is when someone accuses someone else of engaging in behaviour they themselves did. I didn't refuse to answer a question someone asked them. I'm not the one who got nasty and while refusing to answer that question fired off some question about some movie I've never heard of and then demand I answer it. I'm not the one who then travelled to another part of the thread, carried on about me and what I supposedly think while knowing jack shit about me, and I'm not the one who then seemed to object that I'd dare to respond to yr post where yr going on about me.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #230)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:40 PM

234. You obviously are blind to the tone of your own posts.

 

You think your interesting enough to engage in continued conversation? I answered the question.
Not bothering to read my response is on you.

As for anything else. You are deciding to keep engaging me. Frankly from reading your posts. I don't want to know (in your own charming words) "jack shit" about you.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #234)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:14 PM

498. Lord, you're rude to everyone with a YY chromosone

and you wonder why women aren't bowled over by your charms.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #498)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:32 PM

504. Wow what an undercurrent of issues....!

 

You say so much about yourself in so little...

Now back to my "B" horror movie!

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #206)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:34 PM

226. Evidently he feels compelled to avoid the subject matter at all costs

while accusing others of lacking substance.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #140)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:57 PM

182. Good.

 

Get rid of real rape porn. That stuff should never be around.

But simulated "rape" porn between two consenting adults should be left alone. Some men get off on it and some women get off on it. It's no business of mine, or your's.

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #182)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:00 PM

183. Apparently it's the business of the government of the UK

I think it highly unlikely that women will ever be valued enough in this society for rape to be vigorously prosecuted let alone rape porn be outlawed, so the rapists in training will continue to have a steady visual diet at their disposal.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #140)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:40 PM

274. "Rape porn increases rape." Do you have a citation for that?

 

Because it seems like rape porn is way up in this internet age, yet rape is not way up.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #274)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:46 PM

279. yes

there is significant scholarly literature on the subject. Citing the overall incidence of rape in the population is not proof, since that doesn't account for a wide array of variables, the most significant of which is demographic.

To be more precise: watching rape porn can increase one's propensity to rape. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=causal+relationship+porn+rape&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C24

If you have internet access to a university library I can do a search of databases that will provide more recent studies.

I found this Ted talk interesting as well.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #279)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:46 PM

509. What cultural and demographic influences do you credit for the 80% drop in rape victimization?

 

... despite the prevalence of rape porn?



I mean if porn causes rape, then something else must be working astoundingly well to counteract its effects.

Correlation isn't causation, but it's pretty difficult to argue that an inverse correlation shows causation.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #509)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:03 AM

510. I read that 1 in 5 women are raped in the country. That is still a very high number.

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #509)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:44 AM

531. So, you are a rape porn defender ?

why would you defend such atrocities? Do you enjoy seeing women tortured? What the hell is this about?

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #531)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:54 PM

730. I assume this post is being sarcastic?

Because if you're not using any sarcasm in that reply, I'd have to say that you've failed logic for life.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #133)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 03:55 PM

181. I've got a question for you. Do you think clips of actual rapes should be banned?

And if yr answer is yes, then how do you decide what's real and what's simulated? Would the line in the sand be anything that doesn't have happy smiling actors saying they were simulating it gets defined by you as real rape?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #181)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:02 PM

184. So a movie like "Last House of the Left" where you have rape scenes and such, gets defined by you

 

as real rape? Since there are no happy smiling actors right?

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #184)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:05 PM

187. Do you want to answer the question you got asked?

I'm getting the impression that you don't. And I have to wonder why...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #187)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:07 PM

188. I have to wonder why you won't answer my question...

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #188)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:08 PM

189. Because you didn't answer the simple question I asked you...

Plus I'm not interested in anything apart from getting an answer to the very simple question I asked.

So? Do you think clips of actual rapes should be banned? And if so, how do you decide what's real and what's simulated?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #189)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:12 PM

194. I'm not interested in anything but hearing an answer to the very self-same question you present

 

And also why is your question more important than mine?

Again: "So a movie like "Last House of the Left" where you have rape scenes and such, gets defined by you

as real rape? Since there are no happy smiling actors right?"

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #194)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:16 PM

196. Well, seeing yr refusing to say whether you want real rape clips banned or not...

and everyone else in this thread has had no problem saying they see a distinction between real rape and simulated rape and think the former should be banned, yr refusal to answer gives me the answer.

Guess what? I'm not interested in answering any question from someone who refuses to answer the question I asked them and responded by flinging some nonsensical question at me about some movie I've never heard of and demanding I answer it. Behaviour like that's just a bit control-freaky, imo...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #196)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:21 PM

204. Your one to talk about control-freaky behavior.

 

I agree that there is a difference and at the beginning of my posts I said as much.

You decided to back up baines Baine who can't see that there is a difference, read his posts.

I see a distinction between real rape and simulated rape and think the former should be banned.

However I don't see how you can do that without the whole thing being abused, I see it as censorship being a slippery slope. Would be nice to ban it but at the same time looking back at history its prone to being used to censor larger and larger swaths of things.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #204)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:39 PM

233. I only talk about it when it's warranted...

Now why couldn't you have simply said that (minus the control-freaky stuff) when I initially asked? Unless we're both on a quest to waste each others time and inflate our post counts, that would have been a much easier way to do it...

And now with the question answered, and thank you for answering it, I can go do something more constructive than post in this thread, like sit around basking in the sun and drinking coffee and smoking...

Have a great rest of yr day...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #233)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:41 PM

236. Dear god finally.

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #236)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:49 PM

242. So is everyone too stupid for you to respond substantively to?

Or just us wimenz?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #242)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:52 PM

246. Gosh an attempt to make this some sort of misogynistic issue.

 

...the searing subtlety!

How far this has fallen from the orginal issue...

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #204)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 06:58 AM

610. Obviously

in a movie such as The Accused, no real sex or rape is happening. I think that any movie that simulates rape while actors are having real intercourse should be banned.

It's a simple question to answer.

It's disturbing that you are having difficulty with it.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #181)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:17 PM

198. Do you think clips of actual murders should be banned?

And if yr answer is yes, then how do you decide what's real and what's simulated? Would the line in the sand be anything that doesn't have happy smiling actors saying they were simulating it gets defined by you as real murder?

Quite obviously what needs to be done is to make any portrayal of illegal acts on film illegal. I'm afraid we're just going to have to eliminate 99% or so of all movies.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #198)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:19 PM

200. Snuff porn is already illegal

Has been for a long time.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #200)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:23 PM

207. Of course it is. So is, I believe, video depicting actual rapes.

None of that has any bearing on the issue at hand which is the depiction of simulated rapes on film. No one is calling for video of actual rapes to be legal. But calling for depictions of simulated rape (which exist in much television and film) to be illegal seems way past ridiculous.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #207)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:26 PM

214. Actually no

There is no such clear distinction between simulated and actual rape. You assume rape porn to be simulated. Some of it is, some of it isn't. You can't always know.

Deciding what constitutes porn is always a matter of degree. Not being British, I cannot comment on the legal basis of their ruling, but in the US you are safe to watch women being beaten, mutilated, killed, etc... to your hearts content. America, the land of free MEN.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #214)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:36 PM

229. This is really very simple.

Of course there is real and simulated ANYTHING. Snuff films are illegal, right? Yet watching Saving Private Ryan is not illegal? Somehow legislators have found a way to allow people to continue watching simulated deaths in various forms of media without allowing the real thing. Just as with child pornography, often times forensics evidence is used. There have been times when people have been unjustly accused of owning child pornography due to young looking adult stars, but it's better than the alternative of automatically assuming anyone who owns porn without the proper references be accused of owning child pornography. Common sense can really be handy in terms of dealing with issues brought up in the OP.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #229)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:41 PM

235. You aren't dealing with common sense

Your examples are absurd. There is no similarity between snuff and Saving Private Ryan.

Now you're talking about proof, which is again a matter for British law. Presumably the crown would still bear the burden of proof, but again I don't claim knowledge of the British legal system.
I seriously doubt that anyone would dispute possession of rape or child porn, like any other crime under British law, should be proved rather than assumed.

Most of the discussion here has concentrated over whether banning rape porn is a good idea. I think it is, though I don't know if it would even be possible under US law. The reason I think it is a good idea is simple: rape is bad. And nobody is going to mistake a pornographic depiction of rape or snuff for Saving Private Ryan. Courts can and do make distinctions between drama, art, and porn all the time.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #235)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 04:49 PM

243. Actually, people DO dispute those charges.

I can think of a particular case where a man was arrested at an airport for possession of child pornography because he had a DVD of a young looking (but still very legal) porn star. She ended up testifying at his trial and he was released. Yes, this kind of stuff does happen and it's not all that rare.

And there have been similar issues with regard to snuff films, a Japanese horror series involving torture/mutilation comes to mind, though I can't recall the title at the moment. The FBI got involved because so many people thought the movie involved unwilling participants and was actually a snuff film.

As for your assumption that because rape is bad, rape porn must be bad as well. Well, that seems rather simplistic to me. As for the artistic merits, I'm fairly sure we'd both agree that there is none (much like for pretty much all pornography). But whether or not that makes rape porn inherently bad, I'm not so sure. There's a good amount of evidence that access to all forms of pornography decrease the incidence of rape, I'd imagine that would be even more true for rape porn. I certainly can't imagine making rape porn illegal will do anything to reduce the incidence of rape or even do anything to reduce sexism. I can't see any benefit in doing something like that. I can, however, see quite a few ways something like that could be abused.

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