My 911 Call, The "Attempted Murder" of My Daughter, & Oppression of the Family Death Penalty

[Land Shark]

Above is my daughter Iida (pronounced EE-duh), in 2010. She is even more wonderful today, especially in her emotional intelligence, her spirit, and her generally great mood. She's definitely momma's girl, and always has been.

Every night now since January 6, 2011, I’ve slept alone in the very bedroom that newspapers said my 11-year-old daughter Iida was the victim of an attempted murder by stabbing.

While sleeping in bed. (Hold your judgment! This is the media, remember!)

By her own mother. (Hold your judgment!)

By Merja Karita Lehto, my wife of 14 years from Finland. (Hold your judgment!)

In one of the few things the media said that was accurate and true, the “husband called 911.”

Despite sleeping every night in that bedroom, I have not had any nightmares or troubled thoughts about the event itself that created my daughter’s relatively minor injury, nor has my daughter Iida (now 12) or my son Jonah (now 10) had any nightmares or emotional trauma. Shortly after this happened, they both continued to play happily in the area newspapers would merely call a "crime scene," a scene of the attempted murder of an innocent girl.

But what IS quite troubling, and what I experience as a daytime nightmare, is what local authorities did to our entire family in the hours, days, and months after my 911 call, and also what they continue to do, despite declaring all along that the kids and I were the three statutory victims of attempted murder.

This aftermath of cruelty and oppression by local authorities and media is detailed below, and is definitely the worst thing that's ever happened to us. And, it is ongoing, even after the legal cases are now all resolved, with outcomes just like I told everyone from the beginning.

The attempted murder case appropriately ended on November 30, 2011 with an acquittal of not guilty, the details of which I explain below. The additional “civil” case for termination of parental rights of my immigrant wife Karita was voluntarily dismissed by the special prosecutor in March, 2011.

Both of these major legal cases went away without any questioning of my two kids or me beyond the brief questioning of the first 12 hours or so after what happened - after my 911 call. Thus, our initial interviews couldn’t have changed even if we had wanted to change them because police lost interest in obtaining the truth from me and the kids once they realized that what I was describing would not aid them in their predetermined plan to demonize a female immigrant, my wife, as some sort of a Monster Mom.

The authorities then went on to demonize and attempt to railroad a mother, wife, nurse, and immigrant who never intentionally hurt a child or anyone else. She is not only 'not guilty,' she is AN innocent when it comes to the subject of violence.

Because I am the one who called 911, I sure hope that I can be heard to put in a fair word for a woman who left a country with universal health care to come here and work for a health care nonprofit that accepts all comers regardless of ability to pay, even though the nonprofit pay wasn't enough for her to purchase health care for herself.

When I finally got a chance to say something to the media (immediately after the November 30, 2011 hearing in which charges were dismissed on the grounds of temporary insanity), this is what I had to say in the raw video footage of my 4 minute interview:

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But, based on what newspapers and TV said 12 hours later, 36 hours later and in subsequent stories (all of which were based exclusively on what police said), I doubt you would ever get a true picture of what really happened in my home that night. So here's the gist of it, the facts of which were all told to police from the beginning, but the police reports left out much, embellished other things, and added some untruths, all to try to make a case:

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED:

Yes, my daughter did get a relatively minor abdominal knife injury, but nobody will ever guess the truth based on reading the media. In a nutshell, Karita appeared to be sleepwalking, and never said a word to me or expressed any emotion at all, nor did she even move or resist, even when I was taking the knife away from her. She was standing there, vacant and empty as a sleeping statue, her arms relaxed at her side. If the police press release is true, then I was able to disarm an “attempted murderer” by simply holding her hand for almost two minutes!

All of this was described repeatedly and videotaped in a demonstration for police in the first few hours afterward, but there was no hint whatsoever in the press release or subsequent verbal comments by police that there was anything mental going on, or that she was sleepwalking somehow and obviously not herself and not in control of her actions. Absolutely nothing had happened to “trigger” the quiet, and strangely almost peaceful event, in which the first wound hardly scratched Iida and she didn’t even wake up, but the second somewhat harder one woke her up and caused her to softly moan. My son Jonah, who was only six feet away, didn’t hear anything or wake up until I entered the room and turned on the lights. Still, police reports state that Iida “screamed” and that’s why I came to the room, but in separate interviews very early on the same sequence of events is described: Jonah wakes up only after I turn on the lights.

The actual wound stopped bleeding even before the ambulance arrived only 5 minutes later. The upper abdominal location is typically non-fatal and treated via hospital observation. Responders asked Iida to get her pink boots on by herself which she did, and then one man carried her across the snowy deck anyway to make sure she didn’t slip, so they never even put her on a stretcher. Finally, police were so unconcerned that they didn’t let myself or the grandparents (who had been awakened for help) go to the hospital with Iida because they wanted to get statements, so this was reluctantly agreed since everyone knew Iida would be OK.

Months later (and they put on a no contact order between all of us and Karita without our consent so we never communicated for months), we learned that Karita had a psychotic dream/delusion that Iida would be raped, tortured and killed the very next day at school and had an irresistible impulse to save her life by wounding her, thus keeping her out of school. We knew both intuitively and obviously that she was in some kind of dream world and didn’t know what she was doing, and this fact just gave the details for what was already obvious to us based on the way she appeared like a sleepwalking zombie of some sort, and the whole context of a lifetime of love and caring for two children.

In short, the reason the kids and I have not had emotional trauma from the actual event itself is, perhaps surprisingly, BECAUSE WE WERE THERE. Those who weren’t there, and especially those who read or saw distorted media accounts, appear to be more traumatized than we ever were.

For example, within 18 hours people who saw TV coverage were posting that my daughter should be able to take a knife to her mother and finish her off! Another suggested a baseball bat. That's why I said at the end of the video above that my daughter would be horrified if she learned of these things.

THE REAL NIGHTMARE BEGINS

Early in the morning after, I was summoned to the police station from the motel bed where I had a couple hours to look at the ceiling and think. The police chief had some new questions and wanted to interview me some more. He asked me detailed questions about Karita’s appearance and demeanor (which police had also noted in their reports was extremely quiet, very slow to move or say anything even hours later). After his questions, he segued to informing me that attempted murder charges would be filed by the prosecutor and bail set at $250,000. Whoa, I thought, they’re making this into a huge case!

Given the sudden notice that this would be a high-bail attempted murder case, a couple of things became extremely obvious to me right away. First, at some point there would be media, AND MY DAUGHTER AND I DID FOUR PAPER ROUTES TOGETHER. Because my daughter would be at the hospital for a while to make sure she was OK, I would have to personally deliver over 100 copies of the news of the profound tragedy that had happened. I wouldn’t wish this upon my worst enemy.

I begged the police chief, having every reason to do so, NOT to put out a press release, and he promised he would not. He noted, and I understood, that this didn’t mean a story would eventually come out because of the rumor mill, or (as the chief put it) because of “FOIA requests and media listening to police scanners”, but I was OK with that because I didn’t want to feed that fire, only to have to deliver 100+ copies of it for my daughter’s job she loved and appreciated so much.

I also appealed to the chief not to unduly scare the community with a charge and story of attempted murder. I said “How could any child in the community sleep at night, if it is really true that an otherwise loving parent, for NO REASON, and with no notice, could really attempt to MURDER them in their bed while sleeping?? How could any child sleep at night??” The Chief had no answer that I recall.

The interview concluded, and in reliance on the Chief’s promise, I completed a videotaped walk-through of the events in the place where they occurred. In that video, which I now have a copy of, one can clearly see the police chief as I describe how I coaxed the knife away over the course of a couple of frozen, emotionless minutes, finally realizing I could simply slip it out of her hand without any resistance.

But, just a few hours later, in a police press release personally signed by Chief Bjorne himself, as well as in his subsequent verbal comments to the press, he described an “attempted murder” of Iida in her bed via a “stabbing”.

Not only was there no hint in the press release or the media coverage of any mental defense or “sleepwalking,” the Chief even claimed that “Police executed a search warrant at the residence and found several items of evidence, including the knife used”, making it sound like Karita had intentionally hidden the knife, when in fact police knew full well that I handed the knife to the first responder, and the Chief had just a few hours earlier actually seen me describe on the video walk through how I coaxed the knife away. Despite repeated complaints about this obvious lie, the lie appeared in the press a year later, in the final article on case dismissal, and was never corrected by police or prosecutors. See http://miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/569626/Woman-pleads-not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity-in-stabbing-case.html

It is impossible for me to imagine how aspects of the police information given to the media can be understood as anything but lies.

Once the police Chief knew I was both against publicity and an overblown attempted murder charge, starting immediately I experienced the following “consequences” from police, prosecutors, and Child Protective Services personnel, who (it is important to remember) are all required by law to “cooperate” and work together in all cases involving alleged injuries to children.

1. They Published My Daughter’s Name. They put out a lying and misleading press release with a mug shot (see below) and included the name of a minor, my daughter.

2. They Refused My Demand for an Immediate Psychological Evaluation. They stated their procedure was only to do evaluations after two months (when the evidence may well be gone). They also defeated an emergency motion by the defense for inpatient psychiatric hospitalization, even though Karita’s condition was becoming increasingly alarming, losing 25 pounds and losing the will to live.

3. Denial of Bail, and a No Contact “Order” with Family, 24/7 Lights and Sleeping on a Concrete Floor without a Pillow. They increased bail to $1 million cash bail, and added a no contact condition such that if a million dollar cash bail were ever posted, Karita would be homeless and unable to speak to her family after posting such huge bail. Although this no contact provision on bail must be authorized by victims to be legal, it never was. On top of that, we were told, and believed for months, that the no contact order was presently in effect. Despite inquiries, courtroom discussion and faxed letters of inquiry about getting a copy, they never explained that it was only a condition on bail. Karita was placed in an isolation/observation cell, with no TV, radio, books, contact with inmates, and only two blankets, no pillow, and a concrete floor to sleep on.

4. Threats of Deportation.Because Karita was a non-citizen permanent resident, and because “permanent” does NOT actually mean permanent, a violation of a TRUE no contact order would be a deportable offense. Thus, while we were confident she did not commit a crime on the grounds of temporary insanity, were we to have contact with her if there were a no contact order in effect that would be a deportable charge to which she would not have any realistic defense! This was in direct effect an immediate, non-consensual divorce that violates the ethical canon that prosecutors and police may not discourage complaining witnesses from contacting defendants or defense counsel absent a legitimate no contact order agreed to by the victims.

5. They Filed a “Mommie Death Penalty” civil action as Well. Not only was the attempted murder charge filed in less than 18 hours, so also was a civil action to terminate Karita’s parental rights within the same immediate time frame. NOTE: In order to terminate parental rights without first providing services to reunite the family, there must be an “aggravated circumstance” such as attempted murder or life-threatening injury.” So what did they inflate the charges to, and say to the press? Exactly those things. They told the press there was “life-threatening injury” when in fact I was called down to the hospital to discuss agreeing merely to elective, exploratory surgery with a tube procedure, to make sure everything was OK. I agreed to elective, non-emergency surgery, but complications from the surgery itself led to a brief period in the ICU for Iida. But police knew from their own radio that it was not an “emergency surgery” situation, and if they actually thought it was life-threatening, they are more cruel than imaginable not to let any member of the family accompany an 11-year-old to the hospital!

6. Hauled out of the hospital and Into Court to be “Awarded” Custody of My Own Children, and Effectively Warned Not to Be the Wrong Kind of Dad, the One that Favors the Accused. Then, I’m hauled out of the hospital and into court. NOTE: The first thing that happens is that the court AWARDS ME MY OWN KIDS, subject to later revision. This is quite the shock, that suddenly the state thinks they have the power to take away my kids, even if just to give them back to me right away because it’s obvious they are well taken care of. The judge also opines on the record that in “the cases of this type” that he’s seen, it’s unfortunate that “some spouses are more concerned about their spouse than they are about their children.” To make a longer story short: The message is crystal clear, if you are perceived as favoring your spouse, you will be deemed to be supportive of an abuser and you may lose your children. And indeed, by law, once allegations against any ONE parent are proved, the court acquires full “jurisdiction” over the children and can then place them wherever it is in their “best interests” even if the remaining parent has done nothing as entirely a fit parent.

7. They Appoint a Mandatory “Lawyer”-Guardian ad Litem for My Daughter, Who Never Speaks to Her but on Her Behalf States she has “Concerns about Placement” of the Kid with Me. Just in case I didn’t get the message, then the purported “lawyer” guardian ad litem FOR MY OWN DAUGHTER, who never had a single substantive conversation with her, stated in open court a couple weeks into the case that she had “concerns about placement” but never said what those were. Those “concerns” later evaporated and the case was dismissed during March of 2011, but it was abundantly clear that one needs to keep the child protective folks and the guardians ad litem happy and pleased or else you will very likely lose custody of your own children, even though you never did a thing. Your own lawyer will tell you that GAL’s have a “lot of power” and you “need to be on their good side.” Another person very familiar with these cases actually suggested I file for divorce “to ease the mind of the GAL.” This is all driven by the “best interests” standard which, since it is undefined, means “whatever the GAL thinks is best.” That’s who gets YOUR kids, because they pose as lawyers for the kids alone. {Last year, an ABA proposed amendment to the federal CAPTA law to require GALs to be real lawyers was rejected in the Congress for reasons unknown.}

8. No Notice for Months Under the Michigan Crime Victims Rights Act Like many others, we got no notice of the first arraignment and we heard everything about the case on the TV and papers. Like few others, this non-notice continued for many months. Even though as the three declared victims it simply doesn’t matter what the case outcome or our position is, prosecutors tried to say that we had to claim financial restitution against Karita or else we could not exercise Crime Victims’ Rights, which was untrue. Keeping us in the dark like this continued on for months and months, despite a meeting I had with the prosecutor in person. (Things only changed when I went and spoke in open court to the judge in the fall of 2011).

9. DHS CUT OFF OUR FOOD (First of 2 times). Within the first week, the CPS caseworker told me she had taken the liberty of canceling the Food Stamps card that was in my wife’s name, claiming that it would be “fraud” for a spouse to use the card (not true, if the spouse was awarded benefits.) The alleged new card for food stamps never arrived, but Food stamps were canceled. After a month without food stamps (the month of January, the first month after the event) I had to order another replacement, which finally did arrive.

10. WE WERE DENIED HOUSING. We applied at a housing area that receives some federal aid. They approved us quickly for housing, but then insisted at the last minute that if we wanted to move in we had to sign something to put Karita on a no-trespass list. (They can add, and do add, people at will to these lists without anyone’s signature). I told them that if Karita ever got out of prison or the mental hospital, she would have either paid her debt to society or would be deemed appropriate for hospital release, so in either case there was no threat to the housing area, toward which Karita had simply never been the remotest problem. Even though HUD regulations require that all lease conditions be “reasonable” and I cited case law showing this was an inappropriate condition on the lease, and would force us to have any and all visitation off site (plus, you guessed it, constitute another deportable offense if it were successfully argued that she violated the no trespass list). The top managers had somehow received the police reports in this matter (though I never received them, and wouldn’t cite them if I did have them), so I believe they were in at least some contact with prosecutors and/or police, who illegally shared the police reports that constituted their basis for asking me to sign off and agree that Karita could never set foot on their property.

11. I Lost Employment as a Substitute Teacher. I was never called again to be a substitute teacher, perhaps out of concern that students might ask me about topics they would rather not see discussed at school. In past years, I always let students give me a “report card” by secret ballot at the end of the class, and I discovered that many students wished I could teach them all the time.

12. My Community Ed. Classes were all Canceled. My community education classes were all canceled, allegedly due to lack of people signing up for them, although they were quite popular the year before.

13. BUSINESS CRASH. My business crashed, because as a suddenly “single” parent, I had too much on my hands.

14. SETTING ME UP FOR A WELFARE FRAUD CHARGE. After DHS/CPS voluntarily dismissed the parental termination lawsuit, I received a “notice of action” form out of the blue regarding Medicaid and Food Stamps. It said that DHS had added back Karita as a 4th household member (she had been automatically removed upon initial incarceration), then it reinstated Karita’s Medicaid and paid back-benefits in Food Stamps of over $400, retroactive to February 1 (when the benefits were cut due to initial incarceration). Though dated April 1, 2011, it was mailed April 5, 2011, received April 7, with a due date for appeal of April 10, 2011 (ten days from the pretended date of April 1). I looked this gift horse in the mouth and reported the DHS employees for welfare fraud. Claiming there are more people in your house for food stamps or other welfare purposes is classic welfare fraud, and I believe they thought that since I was fighting to keep the family together, that they could slip this one by me. But I realized at all times the difference between “household” and “family”. You can probably guess whether a welfare fraud charge is a deportable offense or not, and what the rule is in terms of whether one must perpetrate the fraud or only benefit from it, for immigration purposes. On appeal from this decision to “benefit” me, the DHS judge would not allow me to prove that DHS was lying when they claimed I called in a request for an additional household member.

15. After Winning Reversal of the Fraudulent Benefits They Gave Me, They Wanted Me to Pay the Food Stamps Back in Cash. I had to go to the highest state levels to insist that they simply reverse the food stamp transaction, rather than demand the same value back in cash. They finally admitted I had that right, and that they could accomplish that, but claimed they didn’t know about it because “so few people” can pay benefits back in Food Stamps, as they spend them. And yet, they had options on their form for paying back in full, in cash. How many people can do that?

16. Wrongfully Terminating Medicaid And Food Stamps. Because the welfare fraud tactic did not work, they instead “got me” by sending an employment verification form (when I told them I was an independent contractor) to the tax service I worked for during the beginning of April, during the height of tax season. Now, a tax professional would be an idiot (in light of their knowledge of tax law) to sign an “employment” verification for an independent contractor. But the deadlines are strict and the DHS rule is that failure of an employer or other third person to return a verification form is grounds for terminating benefits regardless of the lack of fault on my part. So that’s how they terminated my health insurance, the kids’ health insurance, and food stamps (for the second time). I take the kids to the doctor as needed and pay cash instead.

17. Court Orders For a Couple Months That I Not Speak To My Own Children. The parental termination judge issued an incredible order that was in effect for nearly two months saying I could not speak with my own children about the case. The judge kept it in place even after the kids’ own counselor and the kids’ attorney complained about how inappropriate this was and potentially harmful to kids. The judge’s rationale? The theory that I might get the kids to “recant” and then “as a practical matter, recantation could make this case go away.” I never needed to “inform” my kids factually – the early (and only) interviews were all consistent and ultimately more than enough evidence so that the prosecutor could not find a hired gun expert to contest the case, even after a 2 month search just for that purpose. But here again, the judge talked ominously about how very serious the trouble would be for me if I talked to the kids and thus “made this case go away.” The judge was protecting the case, and the conviction, NOT THE KIDS.

18. The ONLY “Services” I Got From the State was an attempted “Gotcha” Test. Under the guise of providing “services” to the family, the only thing CPS ever did was have me agree to attend 3 appointments with a “family counselor.” They had someone administer a “parental attitudes” exam to me to see if I had appropriately nurturing (or abusive) attitudes. I passed with flying colors and they dropped the idea of the other two appointments.

19. Public Disclosure Of Private Irrelevant Facts: Based on the Bail Determination Form filed on the very first day, instead of going through the required statutory bail factors recited right on the form itself for convenience, they used the bail form (a publicly filed document) to put out embarrassing information about me. Nothing on the bail form is focused on the defendant (her employment, contacts in the community, flight risk, etc.). The form even states that my “only job” is “4 paper routes” and that we “lost our home” which we did not, we just recently moved.

20. Police And Prosecutors Knew I Would Have To Deliver Newspapers Containing their False and Misleading Press Release. For the longest time, I wondered where people were coming up with the idea that I only delivered newspapers for a living, since I was a teacher, had a business etc. Then I found out that came from a publicly filed Bail Determination Form! On the morning after January 6, as part of my plea to the police chief not to put out a press release, I had stated that 4 paper routes were my “only job” (but only for the next days!) because my daughter would be in the hospital. The filing of this document on January 7 shows the state of mind of police and prosecutors, and proves that police and prosecutors KNEW FULL WELL that I would have to deliver these papers especially for my daughter. Thus, even if the Chief had never promised not to do a press release, their actions in doing one were despicable, because there’s no legal requirement or duty to posture in the media.

21. Iida Ultimately Had To Quit The Job She Loved: Delivering Newspapers. As terrible as it is to have something like this happen to your family, it is worse than salt in the wound to have to deliver 100+ copies of distorted and misleading “news” about it to people you know in your community. After the first two stories, later Iida and I would unwittingly deliver another story that was not on the front page (so we did not see it), despite having threatened to not deliver the papers if they printed more stories without honoring our right to comment. Then the Mining Journal approved, then rejected, our letter to the editor (reprinted below), again denying us any voice at all. Iida decided to quit the job she otherwise loved in protest.

22. The Newspaper Knew Iida Was Their Carrier, Yet Never Called For Comment despite Requests. In five different stories over 11 months, Iida’s name was printed, even though she’s a minor. In all but the first story it is certain that they knew Iida was their newspaper carrier. I have photos of the cheap teddy bear and card signed “from your friends at the Mining Journal” sent to her hospital room. These “friends” never called for comment, much less apologized.

23. Our LTE Was First Called “Beautiful” and Approved for Publication, Then Rejected as “Libelous” - to Karita. I submitted a letter to the editor, which was first accepted for publication as “one of the most beautifully well-written and heartfelt letters to cross my desk in the nearly 8 years I’ve worked here” but which was later rejected by the senior editor, after a week of approval, as libelous to Karita! (The same person they had freely demonized in numerous articles). But, under Michigan libel law, there is a type of immunity for “official sources” such as press releases, that is specifically NOT enjoyed by those who were present at the events that the official source or press release describes. What this means, in practice, is that police press releases are printed essentially verbatim, and the eyewitnesses or original sources MAY NOT ALTER THE OFFICIAL STORY IN ANY WAY, because that alteration would not enjoy immunity under libel law, so the media will be reluctant to print it. Thus, while the Mining Journal’s position that the LTE was libel to my wife was on one level absurd, on another level it makes a certain sense, and explains how police and prosecutors can completely dominate the media version of the “Truth” and nobody else can say anything about it. I learned that this is how authorities can dominate all media representations of events surrounding a criminal charge, and nobody else can have a say about it, except to issue a denial, or to say “Smutherdude did it” but you can’t identify any specific dude, you MUST say “smutherdude” and leave it at that, because more detail is libelous to someone!

Below is the Beautifully Well-Written, but unprintable, LTE. When Karita later read it at the hospital, she found it moving and asked for copies to be made to send them to family in Finland. Is that the reaction of a person who's been libeled?

April 29, 2011
Attn: Bud Sargent, Managing Editor
The Mining Journal
249 W. Washington Street
Marquette, MI 49855

Dear Editor:

My daughter Iida Lehto has been in several news articles this year, concerning charges of attempted murder brought against her mother based on knife injuries Iida sustained from her mother in January. Iida completely recovered months ago.

But Internet searches on my daughter's name continue to retrieve two of these articles as top results, and appear to more lastingly define who she is solely in terms of one tragedy. http://tinyurl.com/69qsmbw Hoping to add balance, I ask readers to please excuse me (her father) for sharing good news about Iida.

Iida's a bright, happy, social girl in a growth phase: classmates call her “skyscraper.” She loves reading, basketball, puppies and beating adults at Rummikub. She got straight As with one A- on her report card, and a prior teacher said there should be a picture of Iida next to “dream student” in the dictionary. She's pretty, too.

In February, Iida was first in cookie sales in her troop of 18, going door to door and selling them on her paper routes. More recently, she was part of the Guinness World Record-setting skateboard parade in Marquette. According to her counselor, Iida was emotionally a remarkably healthy girl before, during, and after her hospitalization. Iida's always been physically healthy, and has no other experience or history of abuse.

After hospital admission January 7, Iida was discharged on the 15th, started school on the 20th, basketball practices the next week, and released to full normal activities mid-February. She started as point guard March 4, swishing a jump shot on the team's first attempt.

Iida has flaws too, like the messy room, occasional disagreements with her brother, and pre-teen TV shows. Still, upon watching the movie “The Ultimate Gift” in the hospital, she offered that the ultimate gift was Forgiveness. Today, Iida's only sadness is missing her mom, who's recovering in a psychiatric hospital to stand trial.

Iida's equally wonderful younger brother Jonah made up a poignant pun: He asked: “Where does Jesus go out to Eat?” Jonah added: “He goes out to Rest-Our-Wants!”

It's hard for children to rest their want to ask for their normal life back. Resting means those who weren't there, and didn't see, use their imaginations to decide what happened and determine things like whether the kids can ever see their mother again. We're doing our part, the rest is up to the community.

Sincerely,
PAUL R. LEHTO, PO Box 1, Ishpeming, MI 49849

T H E S I T U A T I O N T O D A Y

After doing all of the above to us, and after Karita was acquitted and sent to the mental hospital for a required 60 day evaluation (followed by automatic commitment in all cases regardless of condition, because of the de facto state policy to make sure NOT guilty people don't "get away" with something, and encourage reluctant prosecutors to think they can get their prison sentence in a different way) CPS now has a new policy and demand, post-dismissal:

THE FAMILY-DEATH-PENALTY ULTIMATUM BY CPS, TO US:
CPS: Because Karita is dangerous, they claim (in contradiction of her doctors), if I allow the children to see their mother outside a hospital even one single time, no matter what the conditions of supervision might be, CPS will file to terminate not only Karita's parental rights (by refiling the old case, since civil cases do NOT have double jeopardy protections), but they will also file to terminate my parental rights as well, making state-created orphans of our two beautiful children.

In making this demand, CPS is trying to get MORE relief via my fear of termination than they could if they had won the original case against Karita only, or if they filed TODAY instead of waiting for the children to encounter what CPS considers a danger, then filing against both of us. Specifically, had CPS won the original case, Karita could not have custody of the children or make legal decisions about schools or medical matters, etc. But it would NOT stop appropriate visitation. A double termination will stop all visitation because the kids would be orphans available for a blind stranger adoption.

Not knowing these demands are being made in the background, but knowing that Karita and I will before too long move forward with our long-planned divorce based on the changes of circumstances in the last year, my daughter sent the following card she hand drew to her Mom:



I don't encourage the kids to love their Mom, but I don't get in the way of their natural affections either. That is a form of abuse in itself, called parental alienation, that's all too common.

So, I ask you, I ask everyone on DU:

GIVEN WHAT IIDA SAYS ABOVE, HOW CAN I METAPHORICALLY STAB MY DAUGHTER IN THE HEART BY KEEPING HER AWAY FROM HER MOM FOR THE REST OF HER CHILDHOOD, ALL BECAUSE HER MOM "STABBED" HER IN THE ABDOMEN (TO "SAVE HER&quot ??? If there is to be a "one strike and you're out" policy for people found not legally responsible for an act, should I BE THE ONE TO ENFORCE IT ON MY OWN WIFE AND KIDS?

At the end of the day, if there is anything good about our two children (and I could share many more wonderful stories about them, and wish I could) then the majority of the credit must go to the full-time Mom who shaped and nurtured their hearts and souls more than I did as an often over-working Dad.

Basically, CPS and the prosecutors office (who ordered them to refile because the criminal case "was going away&quot want to give me a big incentive to be Karita's JAILER: In the hospital, the kids can see their mom, but outside the hospital they can't see their mom because the risk is that CPS will make them into orphans, collecting federal bounties of up to $10,000 per terminated child along the way.

CPS knows, or should now, what the local child psychiatrist has stated: That to terminate a parent that children have a solid emotional attachment to is more traumatic to the child than the physical death of the parent. I haven't asked this child psychiatrist what the effect is of state-created orphan-hood with both parents terminated, but I'm sure it is MORE than twice as bad.

So, our plea for help now that we're up to the present day:

DEAR DU:

Every child needs a good community in which they feel accepted and understood. My children do not have one right now because of all the distortions in our local press. Would you be willing to step up and be part of a virtual yet real community that supports my kids? THIS IS ONE THING NO PARENT, NO MATTER HOW RICH, CAN DO BY THEMSELVES. This takes a village.

I want to take action to show my kids that there is a community of people out there right now at DemocraticUnderground.com who understand, and are like-minded in the sense that they will continue to fight for truth and justice as they see fit, no matter what the cost, yet always aware and sensitive to the impacts they have on others.

ACTION REQUEST NUMBER ONE: To further that end, if you can send my kids and me a card, or a note of support, or just a “hello” (no money required), this would be an invaluable personal and emotional support. It would be great to have a nice collection of mail to look at!! You can reach us and help keep the Postal Service going at:

Paul, Iida and Jonah Lehto
PO Box 1
Ishpeming, MI 49849-0001
Questions or comments? You can PM or call me at 204 4026 if you use area code 906 first.

ACTION REQUEST NUMBER TWO: As a separate additional option, we also have legal and related expenses that we can not afford, especially since they cut us off Medicaid and Food Stamps, and I will not go back to people who truly do abuse me. (REQUIRED DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS OP) There is a need for $450.00 for transcripts, $250 for filing fees, $300 for medical records copies, $600 for court costs, and $4000 for appellate legal assistance, and $2000 for an expert witness, for a total of $7,600. (These will be filled from smallest to largest based on if any funds are available). Funds can be sent via PayPal to the email address: agent003 at wildmail.com

The legal costs are to reverse the order of involuntary commitment (she would have VOLUNTEERED for treatment) and its fictional "dangerousness" component that is the only thread CPS can try to hang on, because the treating doctor for Karita specifically testified that the ONLY REASON they are committing her for is because they want her to be able to get a full five years of treatment/probation, but that she is totally asymptomatic. The treating doctor has told me that he has no concerns about any visitation once Karita is released, which will definitely be this year.

The $600 figure for court costs is because, sigh, the Judge in the parental termination matter sent me a bill for Iida's "lawyer" GAL for $600, which bill suggests I will go to jail for contempt of court if I do not pay it. (sigh) This is a "lawyer" we objected to from the outset, legally could not fire, and already had to pay $2000 to get a real lawyer for the kids. There's an indication from the judge that he may just switch the bill to MY lawyer for the same amount and with the same jail threat, perhaps realizing how weak the case is for collecting for Iida's "lawyer."

ACTION REQUEST NUMBER THREE: These may be the last times the kids get to see their mother, or the whole family together, the last months for Karita in the hospital (because she has been doing so very well for a year now). So the request, since it is over a 1000 mile round-trip from where we are in the UP of Michigan to the Kalamazoo area and involves hotels, is for money for travel expenses and "quality time" on a trip or trips to see Mom. Each trip costs about $400 for gas and hotel. You may use the mail address above, or paypal using the address agent003 at wildmail.com (I’m an agent for 3)

ACTION REQUEST NUMBER FOUR: More than anything, after a year and then some of all of this, I JUST NEED A "BREAK" in a serious way!!! So, any of the above, or anything else you can think of from a mental break of a card or a note, to a cup of coffee, an old laptop (my screen just crashed), frequent flier miles donated, you can even ship something "different" and the kids and I will just have a blast opening mail and discovering that there is a community of people who care, and care not just about "physical safety", but cares about the hearts, minds, and souls of kids, and adults too. And even former lawyers like me. And female immigrants.

THANK YOU FOR EVERY CARD, EVEN A PM IF THAT'S WHAT YOU CAN DO. Sorry for writing a "book" above. "Gas" of any kind in the tank, be it spiritual, emotional, intellectual or financial, is needed so I can keep this lovely young lady, and her younger brother, on the track of a good life.

I'm praying that maybe some good karma will come back from this thread where I gave the late DUer Andy Stephenson a job when he needed one (now I could use one!). I actually was the benefactor, and it was the last job Andy was ever able to hold. See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x319663

I was also honorably mentioned for DUer of the Decade and various other stuff, but now I'm frankly just feeling guilty for asking, because this is my first solicitation since starting full time to part time activism in late 2004. Maybe the benefit is that with every contribution or card of any kind, you get me back in the saddle, working for you for free!!!

Required disclaimer: The administrators of Democratic Underground have given permission for one discussion thread on this topic. The administrators of Democratic Underground make no claims regarding the legitimacy or illegitimacy of this fundraising effort. Permission was granted by Skinner on 5/11/2011, and the moderators have been notified.

[Justice wanted]

1. I'm so sorry for everything that happened to your family. The Media looking for ratings are just

crude. The "Justice" system and CPS are BIG jokes now at days. I wish you and your family well.

I wish I could do more to help.

[Land Shark]

2. Thank you, and I do very much like your screen name! :)

I'm quite serious that notes or cards w/o contributions will also be greatly appreciated, in case you feel like supporting the postal service!

[Justice wanted]

13. will do as soon as possible.

[Land Shark]

34. "Better that a few be greatly injured than a whole state be troubled"

The above is arguably one of the guiding spirits of authoritarianism or even fascism. It is a philosophy that apparently guides CPS, as they say themselves they "err" on the side of "keeping kids safe."

It is better, they might say, that individual families and children be greatly hurt (emotionally) for certain, than it is to take the tiny risk that might "trouble" the state as it contemplates the "trouble" it theoretically could get into in the unlikely event something goes wrong. Relatively speaking, only if they fail to break up a family could there be bad press or possible professional consequences for state officials.

But 20/20 recently did an expose on the Michigan CPS that was favorable to one family. They used pseudo-scientific people who claimed to be able to help autistic children speak via a keyboard process, then the keyboarder reports that the autistic girl has been abused. It's all a fabrication, as shown on 20/20, but CPS was happy to use it to break up a family:

Michigan Family Alleges Harrowing Misconduct by Prosecutors, Police
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/michigan-family-alleges-harrowing-misconduct-prosecutors-police/story?id=15299991#.T1oMmXnjtFY
("and the therapy that started this all out, appears to be no better than using a Ouiji board&quot

[The Straight Story]

3. Kicking for later (nt)

[JDPriestly]

4. I truly do not know what to say except that I feel deep sympathy

for your anguish and loss.

[Land Shark]

20. Thanks. I don't expect hallmark cards (they don't make them for this anyway)

I appreciate the reply. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Kick and recommend

And I have no words.

[Land Shark]

14. It's understandable that you have no words, for I struggled SO HARD to find words myself.

It is a very incredible series of things they do. I can finally understand and explain the various policies and considerations that drive them. It doesn't justify it, but it does explain it.

Foremost among these is the idea in CPS of "better safe than sorry" as a justification for over-terminating parents. This has two effects, both bad: (1) Innocent and relatively innocent or reformable parents get nailed for simply not giving "proper care and custody", and (2) CPS is so busy trying to bust everyone that the minority of truly horrific cases still slip through the cracks, leading to more calls for draconian child protection laws....

Thank you for the K&R!

[RobinA]

121. Better Safe Than Sorry

Your story is a tragedy, without a doubt. However, it's one of those "it's come to this" situations. The reason CPS takes a "it's better safe than sorry" stance is that when they DON'T and something happens, Number One, kids are injured or killed, Number 2, they get lambasted by this very same media for not doing the obvious. "Obvious" being what people who have no experiences with these situations say is "obvious." I am sure that any number of people involved here, if your description of this event is accurate, knew damn well the whole overreaction was BS. But these days in social services, having to wade through BS prescribed by people in offices far away is an every day occurrence.

I'm sorry this happened to you. You were the victim the take-no-risk, predetermined, one size fits all solutions, reality-be-damned philosophy now applied to running social services.

[Land Shark]

124. "Better safe than sorry" here means innocents get hurt. How's that fair or just?

And how can it be just for innocents to be greatly injured so that some bureaucrat feels they are less subject to criticism, or so that somebody else (a member of the public perhaps) feels a little better about the situation they are merely reading about?

By "innocents" I mean, of course, children who are denied visitation with a mother they love all so that some other people who don't even know the children, can feel a little bit better? "Understandable" does not mean justifiable, right, fair or kind in these instances.

The difference between CPS and Karita is that Karita has never intentionally hurt a single living thing, much less a child. But CPS often hurts children greatly, so it can feel "better safe than sorry."

But you, RobinA, are basically agreeing with the above in your reply above, so thanks for your reply. FWIW, another line of self-justification CPS uses is that "we have to do this" (they take an expansive view of their "duty to file&quot , so at that level they are saying they can not help themselves, which if true, would make the crux of an UNsuccessful insanity defense on their part.

[tkmorris]

6. Bookmarking for a reread

You hang in there LandShark.

[uppityperson]

7. k&r to mark to read later and get past wtf is going on with you guys I am so sorry.

Hugs to you and yours. I'll come back and read later and send you guys a note.

What a mess.

[VenusRising]

8. My heart goes out to you and your family.

What they have put you all through is a complete travesty and abuse by the system. I'm so sorry that it has come to all of this.

Hang in there.

[mmonk]

9. Quite an ordeal.

I will see what is possible Paul. I'll probably have to reread things a couple of times. I'll do my best when my mind is clear (latenight here).

[Mnemosyne]

10. Good gawd, Paul, what a nightmare you and your family have been living!

Those bastards at CPS don't seem to care about the kids at all and they certainly have no respect for family.

I pray you find justice. My heart is breaking for you all.

[Land Shark]

16. Thanks. Some say "everyone who's dealt with CPS wants to sue CPS"

I think that is sufficiently true that it is their basic argument for social worker absolute immunity when working for CPS. But absolute immunity also means absolute unaccountability, and thus the rather enormous problems of abuse CPS itself has.

Part of what CPS does can apparently be explained as the attitude of caring primarily only about the physical safety of children (in a hyper-vigilant way) and caring little or not at all (at least relatively speaking) about the emotions, attachments, and all the other things that make us human beings.

And, Thanks for your support!

[Mnemosyne]

93. You have been through absolute hell and I pray it is resolved soon.

Please keep in touch so we know how you are doing.

[sudopod]

11. Be sure to kick this in the morning!

*hug*

[Starry Messenger]

12. recommend.

Holy crap. Land Shark. ((hugs))

[Land Shark]

31. Thank you, Starry Mess... n/t

[sabrina 1]

15. I'm so sorry.

It sounds like you need to take some time to relax.

What a horrible story, made so much worse than it needed to be.

Your daughter is beautiful, as I'm sure your son is also.

I will send a card to tomorrow.

I hope your family can get past this so the children can enjoy the rest of their childhood.

[Land Shark]

19. I think you're right that I need some time to relax. (Thanks)

As far as the kids, go, though, they are having everything as extremely normal as possible given that they miss their mom. But even that they have a patient, healthy attitude about.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response!

In the end, it is negative things over long periods of time that are the biggest stressors (unless a short term stressor is powerful enough to cause PTSD) and this has gone on now for 14 months and counting, so it is a stress to be sure.

[NCTraveler]

17. "Yes, my daughter did get a relatively minor abdominal knife injury"

"Absolutely nothing had happened to “trigger” the quiet, and strangely almost peaceful event, in which the first wound hardly scratched Iida and she didn’t even wake up, but the second somewhat harder one woke her up and caused her to softly moan."

"nor did she even move or resist, even when I was taking the knife away from her."

I will trust the legal system on this one.

Please alow those closest to the situation to deal with this.

[Land Shark]

18. The legal cases are already over, and I was/am the "one closest to the situation."

And the legal case outcomes - the system you want to "trust" "on this one" - agreed with what I said from the beginning. There's a link the the final media piece in the OP above. I hate to recommend media as a confirmation of "reality" but I think they are reliable for the more limited purposes of verifying if court hearings were held and what the basic outcome was.

I can tell that my length stressed your time limits for reading. Sorry.

Your response, though, is why I waited until after the cases were over, because it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for people to have a doubt and want to wait and see how the legal outcomes go. (Though I must say after 15 years of working in and observing the legal system you may well have too much confidence in the system)

[NCTraveler]

21. I read you whole post.

Right of the bat you came back at me with something that is false. "I can tell that my length stressed your time limits for reading. Sorry."

My post was simple. The people closest should be the ones to deal with this. Not people who simply read your post on du.

[Land Shark]

24. Oh, ok, I didn't catch that meaning of "closest to you"

There is an immediate family here, but not a community. The effect of local press is pretty devastating, plus there are local politics that get involved, like those who support the chief, the prosecutor, etc. So there is no open community here that will ever deal with it openly without getting defensive. Obviously, I can't even get a LTE published locally. But I just published it here on DU. There are major differences.

But I agree generally that the local community ought to deal with this, and in many cases they do.

Many people on DU are my friends, however. They are not "simply reading my post on DU" as perhaps you feel you are doing. The premise of the post is that a local community (like you say) is preferable, but it's not really available in this case.

[NCTraveler]

26. "The effect of local press is pretty devastating"

Please post a local press article.

[snooper2]

38. Here

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=564627

http://miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/557464/Mother-arraigned-in-alleged-stabbing-of-her-11-year-old-daughter.html?nav=5006

and here...

http://miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/558008/Accused-stabber-to-be-evaluated.html?nav=5001

[Land Shark]

41. and the worst cases were taken offline

note the 1/7 and 1/8 online stories are the same, b/c 1/7 was in print then pulled from the web. The effect locally, however, is mostly from the print and original 1/7 online story, neither of which is available online. In effect, the website is sanitized as to JAN 7, the 1st day of coverage.

[Land Shark]

84. Makes no sense for me to re-publish the MOST wrong things

Especially when they are taken off line. What we see today on the internet does not show either what the community locally saw in their newspapers the first day, nor what the community saw on the web on the last day of coverage. Both first and last were pretty awful. One example to be briefly given in the next reply to this message.

[Land Shark]

85. "found guilty {sic} of attempted murder by reason of sanity {sic}"

How does that grab you (above) as a lead, from a reporter who sat through a 45 minute hearing, and then taped my interview linked to in the original post above? That is what the local tv site posted on its internet site!!

It's a classic, TONIGHT SHOW-eligible, example of media stupidity. It is pretty fun, except that's not the only feeling one gets if it is written regarding your own family and you have to call in a complaint or correction...

It was later modified, (so it can't be seen today). There are some things I was hoping people would take my word for - the OPs already really long. But if someone wants to PM me their email address, I'll send them a screenshot of the original web story that went up a few hours prior to the broadcast as breaking news.

But when they did their modifications to take out the they added the mug shot from the arrest. They don't seem to do that much thinking, but if they were thinking, then it seems they wanted to get some hint of criminality in their somehow with the mug shot after-thought, even if they had to take out the original language of "guilty of attempted murder by reason of sanity".

[mntleo2]

105. I would NEVER trust CPS or the legal system

Man whomever you are, you are pretty naive to think anyone in that CPS System does anything for a child, they are all about THEMSELVES.

I can tell you as a family preservation activist that all CPS and family court is about is the federal funding so they can keep their jobs and get their bonuses for every child they take. In order to get this Title IV funding the mandates say: "The more kids you take, the more money you make. If you return these kids home you will LOSE any present and future funding..." In addition to this the CPS worker and GAL can falsely accuse anyone, lie through their teeth in court and never have to face any repercussions. Even the police are afraid of them because if they don't cooperate CPS will come after their kids too.

This fear of CPS is a known and has a l-o-o-o-n-g history all over the nation beginning with the WA State Wenatchee Witch Hunt case in the late 1980s, continuing on in the McMartin case in CA in the early 1990s, and including the Massachusetts sex ring case during the same time. Nothing was ever done to these false accusers even though all these cases sent dozens of innocents to prison and took hundreds of kids into their corrupt System, costing more than any other cases in these state's history, were all proven to be false, complete lies.

As a matter of fact, after destroying people's lives, ripping apart their families and destroying people's careers, these false accusers used these lies to promote themselves into even higher positions that they hold to this day. One of the people responsible for the above cases is a MSW who was using children as her guinea pigs applying a now debunked "psychological method" that is called "False Memory Syndrome" that was used as fact in court. She is [i/]still an advisory to CPS and holds a high position at the University of Washington. Many of the prosecutors are holding high positions such as Attorney Generals, and several police elevated to higher positions for cases that were a bunch of wasted tax dollars based on false pretenses

Hate to say it as a Progressive myself, but many of these false accusers consider themselves "Progressives" and fool people like you into thinking they are "saving the little babies" when in fact they are merely using these children to get funding and promote their careers. The worst about this is that CPS is actually harvesting children of low income families in order to "sell" them to upper income people where everyone but the falsely accused rakes in the profits. Ignorant people think that even if falsely taken, these poor kids are "better off" if ripped from those who love them and put into a higher income home, right? WRONG! These kids are more likely to drop out of school, become teen parents, go to prison, 5-7X more likely to be abused in their "safer" homes, and become street kids. The 9th Circuit Court has shown that less than 15% of these kids are in dangerous situations ~ the rest could be left with their families and given services in Humphreys vs County of Los Angeles because "imminent danger and maltreatment and neglect" can merely mean the low wage family cannot afford heat in their homes, are homeless, have no daycare, are ill themselves with no medical insurance, or do not have enough food in their home.

I am in Las Vegas next week in protest at a conference of judges, social workers and juvenile court workers. I will be giving a workshop on "21 Ways CPS Takes Poor Children" but let me tell you, all they are using these low income children for is to create legal precedence for upper income people to take their kids if they so desire in retribution for "non-cooperation," to "make an example" and for many other reasons using "imminent danger" a legally vague term that can mean anything they want.

Let me repeat here: There are no repercussions, absolute immunity for these CPS workers and their rubber stamp GALs even if proven to have lied (committed perjury) in court. GAL agencies are themselves committing massive fraud bragging they go with CPS recommendations over 97% of the time and that "all accused are guilty" ( "Court Appointed Special Advocates" or CASAs as some are called). Their agencies collect Title IV $Millions for being a rubber stamp for CPS rather than being a federally mandated independent advocate for the CHILD, not CPS .

I have proven such perjury in court where all these people will never face so much as a slap on the wrist for the lies they told and the lifelong trauma they caused to a child. After falsely accusing me and taking the love of my life I had cared for for 4 years (she was my grandniece). CPS then "overlooked" their own mandates for "imminent danger" and jammed this little girl into an upper income family home, strangers to her, who had just 6 months before lost their own toddler from a drowning in their unprotected adult sized back yard swimming pool. Not a thing will happen to any one of these people. Not one thing. The adopters will collect monthly $$$$ for being so nice as to adopt the child, CPS workers who falsely accused will keep their jobs and get bonuses, the CASA will continue get the $5,000,000 a year they get for their lies, and family court judges will continue to make a 6 figure wage while knowing they were all lies.

Paul is right and his wife should be able to see her kids. All his family were to CPS and the family court was $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. They could give a crap about the beautiful little girl whose picture you see, the family they destroyed and for the hundreds of families they destroy every day. All they care about is making more jobs for themselves and they well know that, in the future when many of these traumatized kids grow up they will be more fodder for their careers.

CPS, GALs, The Adoption and Foster Care Industrial Complex, and family court can:

*Ignore Constitutional rights of the child (no due process, illegal search and seizure)
*Ignore the Constitutional rights of the accused (no due process, parental rights, falsely accused have no legal representation)
*Commit perjury without repercussions
*Withhold crucial evidence proving innocence
*Refuse to investigate
*Make arbitrary decisions
*Make decisions that are based on false psychological methods by "experts" they pay to say whatever they want the court to hear
*Commit fraud openly and with impunity by collecting government funding under false pretenses
*Force medications that are detrimental onto the child (that they receive funding to administer)
*Force the child into abusive families (whatever they decide is "abusive" or not "abusive" is their criteria based on vague and quite woo-woo "facts" with little or no basis)
*Have their "feelings" considered as fact in court with no other basis to prove they are legitimate
*Totally ignore any parental or family proof of knowledge about the child, the situation or any other intimate knowledge and replace this as "fact" in court with their "feelings."
*CPS is literally going into low-income housing and reaping every single child one-by-one and then putting them up for sale, knowing the falsely accused cannot adequately defend themselves. I have documented this in WA State, PN low-income housing, GA transitional housing, and MI low income housing sites.

There is much, much more that most "regular" courts would not consider that is allowed in family court.

NJTraveler, those "closest to the situation" are never heard because Family court and CPS shuts them down. If you "follow the money," you will know why this happens or remain ignorant if you don't. In your ignorance, may these people *never* come after you!


Cat in Seattle

[Land Shark]

106. Thanks for adding your experience to this thread! n/t

[2 Much Tribulation]

110. NCTraveler seems to have misunderstood the OP. nt

[mmonk]

22. Was any proof shown to you that no one was signing up

for your Community Ed classes?

[Land Shark]

33. Just a single phone call...

I got a single phone call canceling the 2 classes that started in early January. As to the third class that started around the beginning of February, they said they would wait and see because it was too early to tell if there would be enough signups. But they never called or emailed as to that class at all.

[NCTraveler]

27. She was insane for...

"a few minutes at most". And please respond to my other post about the devastating local news articles. And I agree. Criminally insane is not a status of 24/7/365. It is also not a status of "a few minutes at most" as you believe it is.

[Duer 157099]

28. Kicking so I can read this more carefully tomorrow

it sounds absolutely heartbreaking though.

[truedelphi]

29. I am aghast at all of this.

CPS and the other agencies can be so full of it sometimes.

Very sorry that your family went through this.

The Family Court system in this nation is so badly broken. So often whichever parent is supremely rich is the one getting major power over the other during a divorce, even if tha rich parent is a pedophile.

And now to read your story and hear how absolutely horrendous your experience with the various agencies are, I can't express how badly I feel for your family.

[2 Much Tribulation]

120. I didn't know there was a movement re CPS

See mntleo2's posts (all of them seem to be numbered over 100)

[truedelphi]

122. I ddn't (or don't) know abot CPS getting people's

Hackles enough to make noise about CPS, and that well may be the case. But there is definitely a movement afoot regarding Family Court System.

Marin County Calif.'s family court system ahs been broken.

And finally the state intervened, saying enough was enough. But then the very people who are linked to being part of the problem were appointed to oversee the "solution!"

By having a problem, among things I'd point out about how broken a court system can be:

there are numerous cases where one parent declares the other to be molesting a kid. If the parent who is supposedly the molester is the one without money, they only are allowed supervised visits with the child. However if the person who is being accused of being the molester has the money and connections, they are able to make sure the accusing parent only has supervised visits with the kid.

In one case - the family court system was imprisoning the mom of a little girl who was being abused. (The mom had taken the child away from the abusing parent, was caught on the East Coast, and then tried and jailed for kidnapping.) Only when the father KILLED his new domestic partner, did the court release the imprisoned parent and drop- the charges of kidnapping.

And one of the things about "supervised visits" - they cost the parent who is the supervised parent at least $ 175 an hour. The judges collude with the "therapists" who offer up for the court the judgement that the person is hysterical and there isn't any valid basis of fact for the accusations. Then that same therapist or a buddy of theirs gets to be the supervising therapist. The system was rampant with abuse. Including kickbacks between judges and thereapists.)

[Land Shark]

125. Yes, there are microcosms in family court

Or maybe I should say "macrocosms." Both are very significant issues, I probably shouldn't try to assess the relative size of each myself.

[mdmc]

30. wait. what?

kick for a read later..

[OneGrassRoot]

32. OH. MY. GOODNESS.

Like others above, I really have no words other than to say I am deeply sorry for the pain and suffering you're family is going through.

What an absolute nightmare...a real-life nightmare.

The one saving grace is that children are resilient but this system is trying to destroy even that.



I will certainly do what I can to try to inject some joy and support into your lives.




I just posted this elsewhere before reading your OP. I'll share it here, for you and your children. Your daughter is the embodiment of joy, and I'm sure your son is as well from what I've read. There must be something we can do to work towards justice in the midst of this nightmare, and inject joy into the equation at the same time for your children.

[2 Much Tribulation]

98. The Joy of this girl is what came through to me as well.

The many challenges add contrast and bold relief to this remarkable girl.

[Land Shark]

101. THANKS for seeing my daughter in this!

YOU know, a couple people thought this was ONLY about the challenges but to me those are the backdrop and contrast for my daughter's spirit which is also, those to a slightly lesser degree, the family spirit as well. BUT she is a joy!

[Land Shark]

35. Here's link to the January, 2012 expose by 20/20 on Michigan CPS

Michigan Family Alleges Harrowing Misconduct by Prosecutors, Police

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/michigan-family-alleges-harrowing-misconduct-prosecutors-police/story?id=15299991#.T1oMmXnjtFY
("and the therapy that started this all out, appears to be no better than using a Ouiji board&quot

[TorchTheWitch]

36. well...

The first question I have is when was the trial? I can't find a single thing anywhere that mentions a trial or its outcome but you mentioned several times that your wife was acquited. I find this extremely odd considering how big this event was in your area coupled with a few articles that say that your wife plead not guilty by reason of insanity and that trial was pending indefinitely until such time that she is deemed competent to stand trial, and that to date she is still not deemed competent enough. If trial has not yet happened because of her mental status to date, she has not been acquited, and the case is pending due to her mental status.

Who were the family members that mentioned previous problems your wife had with seizures and mental illness? Or do you not know of these people or what they apparently said? A couple of articles mention that family members noted your wife had previous problems with seizures and mental illness "for the past several years" before the incident occurred.

I read every word of your OP several times and two things REALLY jump out at me with every read:

1) You seem to be in deep denial about the seriousness of what your wife did to your daughter. Honestly, I find this rather horrifying. Your continued instistance that this was nothing much of anything to speak of and making light of it frankly scares the shit out of me, and I have no doubt that's exactly how the police and the courts see it as well. You need to come to terms with the fact that your wife is seriously mentally ill which is why she is still institutionalized to this date since the incident and why she must be kept away from your kids and the general public until such time (if ever) that she can be released. There is no way on God's green earth that your wife is institutionalized in a mental hospital and has been all this time for shits and giggles. It is EXTREMELY difficult to institutionalize someone particularly on the state's dime.

2) You seem to have a severe persecution complex about this from the police to the press to the courts to the CPS to your own attorney to pretty much everyone and seem to convey that all of this was caused by this enormous conspiracy of evil people for no other reason than to cause havok to your family. And that all goes back to what is glaring to me that you are in severe deep denial about the seriousness of your mentally ill wife attacking your daughter with a knife due to her severe mental delusions.

I beg you to get some therapy about this if not for yourself than for your children, but I sincerely hope that you would do it for yourself as well. Your wife is severely mentally ill and has proven herself to be a danger to you, your children and the general public and therefore must be institutionalized to both protect you, your children and the general public and to do whatever possibly can be done so that she can hopefully at some time in the future resume a normal life as a mentally healthy person.

[Land Shark]

39. Thanks for a very good example of the general problem here

Last edited Fri Mar 9, 2012, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

As noted in the OP, the direct source of the "official information" (me) is not allowed to amend or contradict in any way the "official media" sources, which you have apparently checked.

If you think about it, it's a little odd to try to lecture me about what happened to me when there are no sources of information other than me my daughter and my son.

The "trial" ended as shown in the link already in OP. {SEE LINK re continuing to publish incorrect information 11 months later.} The prosecutor had 2 months to find an expert and couldn't find one. They just gave up because the case was too strong to go to trial on.

As far as your insults as to counseling, the kids' counselor was quoted in the LTE as saying Iida's been emotionally quite healthy before during and after her hospitalization. These were exact words she gave me the authority to use (in the LTE). Is the kids' therapist in denial as well??? It's amazing that you can say you read the OP twice and still believe the media and disbelieve me when I'm the original source for the press release and much of the OP is about how my story got distorted!

In any event, let's say you were right and I needed counseling even after winning the cases. How would that justify the series of wrongful things that were done?? And if the event was as bad as you say, why are the kids doing so well?

Next, you do an OP and I will reply about what happened in your private home some time in the past, based on reading the internet or some other media, OK?

[LisaL]

45. Did she not plead not guilty by reason of insanity?

I don't believe that equals to "acquitted."

[Land Shark]

48. Not guilty by reason of alibi or Whatever is a legal acquittal, but...

there is a clear difference in societal stigma with NGRI, leading to your suggestion that perhaps it is not an acquittal. Under anglo-american law, it is a total acquittal criminally and there's no crim record. But the stigma and the commitment for treatment that usually to always happens makes it quite different in terms of liberty restriction. One can never be 'acquitted' of civil commitment or of illness, so the use of a term like 'a 100% acquittal' would not be improper. IN EVERY criminal case, civil lawsuits of some type or another can potentially follow, so again, that doesn't mean the person wasn't acquitted of intentional criminal activity.

[Land Shark]

49. Not guilty by reason of alibi or Whatever is a legal acquittal, but...

there is a clear difference in societal stigma with NGRI, leading to your suggestion that perhaps it is not an acquittal. Under anglo-american law, it is a total acquittal criminally and there's no crim record. But the stigma and the commitment for treatment that usually to always happens makes it quite different in terms of liberty restriction. One can never be 'acquitted' of civil commitment or of illness, so the use of a term like 'a 100% acquittal' would not be improper. IN EVERY criminal case, civil lawsuits of some type or another can potentially follow, so again, that doesn't mean the person wasn't acquitted of intentional criminal activity.

[TorchTheWitch]

50. Did you even read your own link?

There was no trial. Your wife pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity and she was sent for evaluation. All the link you provided showed was that she plead not guilty by reason of insanity and for HER own defense was sent for mental evaluation. There is NOTHING whatsoever in that link that the trial ended (it never started) nor that she was acquited. Then again, seeing as how you insist that every single thing written in the media about the case is all elaborate lies invented by this grand conspiracy I'm not seeing why you provided this one as evidence in your favor.

She is still institutionalized because she is ILL. Seriously ILL. I absolutely guarantee you that she's not still in that facility and has been all this time for no reason whatsoever or because for no reason whatsoever EVERYBODY with any connection whatsoever to the case is part of a grand conspiracy to persecute your family. She PROVED herself a danger to your family by attacking her and your daughter with a knife. She wasn't sleepwalking, she didn't temporarily go insane just to commit this one act - she IS mentally ill and is STILL mentally ill, and she STILL isn't facing trial because she is STILL not mentally competent to do so.

I am begging you to seek therapy because it is glaringly apparent that you still don't see that a) your wife is mentally ill and so seriously mentally ill that she attacked your daughter with a knife due to her mental illness producing extreme delusions, and for you and your family's sake it is imperative that you come to terms with that and accept it; and b) there is no grand conspiracy by absolutely everyone with any connection whatsoever to the case to elaborately fabricate all of this in order to continue holding your wife in a mental facility on the state's dime for no reason whatsoever other than to persecute your family.

It is YOUR own words that convince me utterly of both a) and b) above. The only one I sincerely believe that is not obvious to is you, and exactly why I am BEGGING you to get help - for your sake and your family's sake. PLEASE. If you don't I see a day in the not too distant future where you could lose custody of your beloved children. As I said, if you cannot do it for your own sake then for the love of all that is sacred do it for your kids.

[lapislzi]

53. This is a toughie. I am inclined to agree with you and other skeptics.

Several things can be true simultaneously. I am sure that the OP loves his family dearly and that the children love their mother. (Disclaimer: I am not acquainted with the OP). This can be true while at the same time the mom is seriously mentally ill. Torch is right. It is virtually impossible to get an adult institutionalized without very strong evidence that the individual is seriously mentally ill. I am sure enough DUers have had experiences with mental health for this not to be in question.

I read the articles posted via the above links. Call *me* crazy, but the stories don't seem to be particularly inflammatory or lurid, or damning to the mom or anyone involved. Stabbing incident. Kid expected to recover. Mom being evaluated. Could face jail time. Sounds to me like a factual account of the incident and its aftermath.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that a woman stabbed her child, be it deliberately (doubtful, given what we know) or while in a delusional state. If the latter, which I think most of us will agree on, the mom needs to be kept away from sharp objects and kids until her condition can be diagnosed, stabilized, and treated.

I strongly doubt anyone on these boards is in the habit of demonizing mental illness. It is a tragedy; a medical condition; sometimes an emergency.

That the OP is at odds with social services in all sectors is not surprising, given the state of social services in this country and his own emotional issues that may be preventing him from acting in his own best interest or presenting his case in a cogent manner.

I am always suspicious of people's claims that the "system" is "against them." The system is what it is. (Not to say we shouldn't change it, but we're dealing with the real here, and that is not the topic of this thread). Paranoia doesn't help your cause. It makes people less likely to help you, not more.

I don't know the gentleman, but I am sorry for his troubles. I hope that his wife receives the help she needs and that the children continue to thrive.

[Land Shark]

54. Because you're willing to give your opinion, may I get your input on the following?

For the sake of discussion, I will assume that I'm somehow minimizing things, and there's a potential future danger much greater than the general population but not enough to constitutionally justify a court order of some kind. Further assume she's out in the public.

My presumed "denial" does not seem to change the basic questions that arise out of the OP, one as to what to make of the past, and the other as to what to do in the future.

1. PAST. If I am presumed in denial, does that make the various things that happened, as listed in the OP, OK? (As far as I can see, the "denial" would only be as to expert opinion about future potential dangerousness, but it would not be relevant to whether or not victims, whether or not in "denial", should get notice of court hearings, be treated with dignity and respect, etc.)

2. FUTURE. You can read in the OP what my daughter, the direct victim, has in terms of feelings for her mom. When she gets out (estimated within the year), WHAT is your opinion as to SUPERVISED VISITATION? (Say with not only me but somebody else present, perhaps even a counselor?) Should supervised visitation be ruled out even though doctors at that point would definitely say it is OK? (Because they have already OK'd it months ago)

And if supervised visitation is not OK in your opinion, how does one go about handling my daughter and her desire to visit her mother, since she can freely do so now while she is in the hospital's form of supervised visitation, but not in any outside-hospital visitation?

My position in favor of supervised visitation is based on expert medical opinion of the State's own doctors as well as independent experts. I've inquired and demanded in writing of all parties any and all information they have as to alleged dangerousness of visitation and I've received no responses from CPS or from prosecutors for 2 months now. Thus, it seems relatively clear that the CPS position is just a litigation position, but not based on medical science or expert opinion. BUT EVEN IF IT SOMEHOW WERE BASED ON SOUND SCIENCE, the above two questions still remain. Why can't supervised visitation be managed anyway?

Finally, replies here are correct in that involuntary commitment standards are hard to meet. I know, because I looked into that before. But one of the transcripts I'm ordering will have the State's testimony from their doctors that the ONLY reason they recommend commitment is because they want her to be under a five year probationary supervision that is then allowable. They also believe that the 5 year medical supervision, (making sure she takes all meds, testing, etc.) will help to make her case for visitation EVEN BETTER. So, even the doctors that favored commitment think they are on a track to visitation. (I wish I had the transcript already but of course I don't)

[2 Much Tribulation]

95. Hello? These are interesting questions from Land Shark for you to answer

[Land Shark]

102. invited via PM to reply but nothing so far.... nt

[Land Shark]

56. The State's doctors say she's Asymptomatic for 9 months now

So when you say "she's seriously ill", if that means "presently symptomatic" you are quite wrong. Her situation is quite subject to correction with the right medications, which they put her on.

On the other hand, if "seriously ill" simply means she has symptoms that could come back without proper treatment, then you are basically correct about that. That needs to be taken very seriously so there is not a relapse, and she's been stable and asymptomatic for getting very close to a year now, according to her doctors (which I'm just passing on here). And those doctors are the State's independent experts and her treating physician that I'm referring to.

That being said, you should seriously drop your assertion that I'm somehow ill. There are many doctors and experts already involved, the kids were required to be evaluated/counseled, and I went as well (otherwise the court would have ORDERED it for all of us, but it didn't because I had already set it up within a couple days of what happened).

I've learned that first impressions for people knew to this case are hard. But the kids' counselor, for example, shares my basic point of view (she is the person quoted in the LTE). There's a learning curve to be sure, and my OP is already too long to start quoting experts and putting all of that out there.

But since you're willing to give advice, no matter what we may assume my level of denial or whatever is, the basic questions of the OP remain the same:

1. ON THE PAST. Why would denial or the lack thereof affect what one thinks about all the various things that happened in the case? I NEVER suggested they were personal, rather, it is a function of system dynamics, this is more or less what they would do to everyone in a case involving children. But then, if I had been ready to testify to criminal guilt, I can't see everything on that list happening. So it seems that at least a few of the things on the list are likely related to the substance of my testimony. CERTAINLY the accusation that I am in DENIAL is tightly wound up with the substance of what I'm saying. How do these things legitimately affect whether one gets victim's rights or not?

2. On THE FUTURE. Given what my daughter's feelings are that are shown in her card in the OP, and given when she is released the doctors will be OK with supervised visitation (since they have already said so), should there be supervised visitation? If not, why not? If not, how do I manage my daughter and her feelings?

[mntleo2]

113. Oh Puleeeze

... why is it that EVERY FREAKIN' BODY ELSE BUT the person living this "knows" so much more and deems psychiatry (an unproven science at best) as somehow being able to fix a corrupt legal system that uses kids to make money for themselves? As usual God forbid if we actually LOOK at the situation we must look everywhere else but at the problem and of course BLAME THE VICTIMs. How do you know what this writer needs, Mr Head Shrinker? Just like a rapist blames the girl because she dressed too suggestively, you automatically consider HIM the problem rather than the System about which he speaks.

Let me tell you something and I am going to shout because sometimes know-it-alls need that to snap themselves out of their Lala Land place:

THE SYSTEM IS TERRIBLY BROKEN AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED IT IS DESTROYING ENTIRE FAMILIES AND THEIR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE FIXED, NOT LAND SHARK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Please God, just ...TAKE ME NOW ...(sigh)

Cat in Seattle<---family preservation activist who sees this corruption every day

[mntleo2]

117. KICK

[Land Shark]

118. kick for mntleo2's comments, msgs interspersed in the range of 105-117

Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 11:05 AM - Edit history (1)

[Occulus]

42. How.... vile.

Shame on you.

[LisaL]

44. Vile? Give me a break.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, in case you didn't know.

[EFerrari]

89. Even if either of you were Miz Clio and able to diagnose someone over the intertubes

accusing someone of being in denial is a vile act. Thank God or nature for denial. It protects us from the unspeakable; it's not a character flaw and does not "improve" with browbeating.

And as far as Paul having a "persecution complex", anyone who has dealt with serious mental health issues AND the police AND the state knows just how laughable that is. There are good people working in the field but also many who sleepwalk through their jobs and make decisions for their cases that are as dangerous as they are damaging and stressful for the family caught up in the bureaucratic incompetence and ass covering.

[Land Shark]

90. Incompetence or persecution? (assuming no other choices, of course)

If persecution means it's 'personal' then it's not persecution. If it means 'actions taken in light of the type of role I had in the case then some things on that list meet the standard. Personally, if the list were all 100% incompetence I'd it would almost be too devastating an indictment of the system to think my case to be typical - because incompetence has no general borders. INSTEAD, I think a few folks along the way didn't take kindly, from their point of view, to those like me they perceive to be 'in denial' and the like.

I MEAN, if people on DU can read an OP like the one above, which many found moving, and instead of sympathizing or something rather coolly deny that human kindness, I completely fail to understand why it's a stretch to believe that some officials here locally, without benefit of the OP, would similarly withhold other human kindnesses in a similar effort to combat 'denial.'

Those who are somewhat cool, hard and calculating (in this thread) are entitled to their opinions, but they are very poorly positioned to say or to imply that there are no cool, hard and calculating officials in the neck of the woods only i live in (of those on this thread).

[EFerrari]

91. Like this?

The very first time Doug had an episode, he collapsed against a wall in the living room and starting bleeding from the head. I knelt next to him to assess his injury and called 911 at the same time. When the cops got there, they put him in an ambulance and arrested me. My jeans were soaked with blood from the knee down. They took me to jail barefoot. No one bothered to stop and look at what they were seeing.

Or, like this?

One meds recalibration went very badly for Doug once. He decompensated and literally couldn't get out of bed.
He missed his group meeting to get refills at the Edelman Clinic in L.A. because his brain was so scrambled he couldn't move, let alone dress and get down to the clinic.

So, when I managed to get him there after a week or so, the group leader refused to give him refills for his prescriptions to "teach him a lesson". Apparently, this individual didn't want to "enable" his "bad behavior".

Or, like this?

Another time Doug decompensated, he threw a Christmas tree out of a second story window and me against a wall. He was arrested when a neighbor called the police. The D.A. told me that serving 5-10 for assault would "hold him accountable for his behavior". No one in that office ever interviewed me or his therapist or his shrink before they decided which charges to work up.

Leaping to conclusions when you're outside of these situations isn't helpful. And it can be actively harmful.

[Land Shark]

92. +1

[mntleo2]

115. Lack of human kindness is putting it nicely, these people are ...

...ahem more like heartless and cruel. Maybe even REPUBLICANS, LOL. Makes me wonder if they are likely IN the System that hurts so many and have to defend it in order to sleep at night.

Cat in Seattle

[mntleo2]

114. You sing it Brotha!

Exactly what Paul and many of us on here are trying to say. Thank-you!

Cat in Seattle

[LisaL]

43. As far as I gather, there was no trial.

The articles I found say she plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Here is the link. I don't think there ever can be a trial once they accepted "not guilty by reason of insanity" plea. It would be double jeopardy otherwise.

"An Ishpeming woman accused in the January stabbing of her 11-year-old daughter will be committed to the state Center for Forensic Psychiatry after pleading not guilty by reason of insanity Wednesday in Marquette County Circuit Court."

http://www.miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/569626.html

[Land Shark]

55. Correct, there was no trial because the Prosecutor gave up, said he couldn't win at trial

That was after obtaining a continuance of two months to interview more experts in the area.

But the case was still resolved with an order of acquittal of NGRI. It wasn't a plea "deal" of any kind, the case was simply conceded, and then a case disposition hearing held.

[LisaL]

57. Since she plead not guilty by reason of insanity, I presume prosecutor

believed he couldn't win at trial because he believed that she was in fact legally insane (and not because she is actually innocent).

[Land Shark]

61. You have a misunderstanding about insanity and criminal procedure

In the state of Michigan, the only way insanity can be asserted is if the defense pleads insanity. Yet, you appear to believe you are making some sort of point that she pled it. It couldn't be any other way. OK?

The insanity DEFENSE is a legal term of art that differs somewhat from the lay concepts of insanity and insane. But wikipedia has a reasonable introduction that states at the beginning:

"In criminal trials, the insanity defense is where the defendant claims that he or she was not responsible for his or her actions due to mental health problems (psychiatric illness or mental handicap). The exemption of the insane from full criminal punishment dates back to at least the Code of Hammurabi." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense

The basic definition, in a paraphrase, in Michigan involves these key elements (but the definition is NEVER met if alcohol or drugs are involved, because of an exception): That, as a result of a mental disease or defect, the accused was unable to appreciate the nature and quality of of his acts, unable to distinguish right from wrong, or unable to conform their actions to the law.

Thus, while mental illness must be present, many mentally ill people will be far from legally insane. The key is the proof of the presence of a condition such that the person could not know their acts were wrong, or else could not control those acts (such as a punch from an epileptic seizure).

The judge in his ruling didn't specifically say if he had an opinion that differed from the expert report. But since that report was utilized then presumably the main prong that was triggered was the inability to tell right from wrong (because of the delusion of immediate harm the next morning leading to an action thought to be right under the effect of the delusion, but was not in fact right).

Being wrong is nowhere near good enough. You have to be able to prove, via experts mostly, that mental illness caused your thinking to be wrong in that respect at that time.

Basically, she was found legally "not responsible" (see insanity defense defn above) under the Michigan insanity definition, and that condition of not being able to be responsible definitely does not continue to the present, as I'm informed by the treating doctor, who was present during a visitation that took place in January.

[LiberalEsto]

62. People can make pleas during arraignment

so there didn't need to be a trial for her to make a plea.

[Land Shark]

64. Right. But it happened on the previously set trial date

A trial date had been set for a half day to one day trial and then that ended up being a hearing of less than an hour.

Based on my legal background, it is more of a victory to "win" because your opponent concedes than it is to "win" at trial, so to me the concession by the prosecution was a big win.

That being said, because it is a tragedy, I never got a single handshake or congratulations on this "win" and frankly I never expected one. It's simply sad.

[alfredo]

37. K&R

[Land Shark]

108. Thanks Alfredo, for the kick and rec. nt

[robinlynne]

40. It is so hard to find the right words.

Paul, you are one of the kindest, wisest, most just people I ever knew. I hate that our society is not just. That good does not always win out in the end, unless it is in a movie. That real life, for real epople, in our country is so hard, that laws, which may be made to protect are interpreted in ways that hurt the innocent, that the values that you hold dear (democracy, justice, caring for all people) are not shared by all of our society.

I'm so sorry this is happening. Injustice is always sombering. Injustice to really really good people even more so. I wish I could say something.

I send all my love to your family.
I hope those who can will send $10.00 or 20.00. I hope those who can not will send love and hope.

[Land Shark]

68. Thank you robinlynne (it seems you found your "right words"); I appreciate it a lot! n/t

[mimitabby]

46. can't you guys leave the state?

[midnight]

47. Paul I have to say all the work that you and Andy Stevens have done to bring about change in our

voting system has left you and your family vulnerable. I have to re-read this and will hopefully have a better response to the crisis you and your family has been experiencing.

[Land Shark]

76. Thanks for the compliment, tho I tend to doubt my work has anything to do with it

Instead, I can see that the system generally treats all cases of injury to children with a high level of seriousness, to the point where, as in this case, it overshoots reality. There's some desire to hit back, and hit back very hard, against anyone accuse-able of hurting children. In this case, they want to hit back so hard that it will hurt the children themselves, if they keep it up. Here again, it appears they rationalize this my "erring" on the side (in their minds) of protecting the physical safety of children, at the expense of their minds and hearts.

Karita's treating physician (who was involved in the commitment too) says that many officials involved in CPS proceedings simply don't understand the medical science of mental illness and over-react because of it.

I've asked if there is any danger to Iida in a visitation, and the professional response has been that the question doesn't even make sense: it is not possible to say that my daughter is under any kind of increased danger, based on the past, even if decompensation is assumed. the most likely thing, even in severe decompensation, is just severe depression, as shown in over 100 days of severe decompensation languishing in jail: she never had any aggressive acts or threats toward anyone, at any time.

That being said, no living human being is without risk, including everyone replying to this OP and myself. So, it's not honest to say there's no danger, either, but that fact doesn't really get us anywhere because it is true for every human being. Bottom line is that there's a slightly elevated risk relative to the general population, but it is not specific to the children or anyone else, and lots of people legitimately walking the streets, especially young men, are more dangerous. (See also other replies where I point out that even though it is very difficult to get someone committed for average citizens, the opposite is true for NGRI cases, and the doctors in this case said they were committing simply to get her under a 5 year medical supervision program that they believe will be a good safeguard and help allow visitation. But that won't work in the end if CPS operates out of lay model of fear of the "criminally insane" rather than what the State's own experts say themselves about visitation and the real reasons and motivations for her commitment)

[Bryn]

51. This reminds me of what happened to a nurse right after F-5 tornado hit Joplin, MO

My heart breaks for you and your family. I was reminded of a story of what happened to that nurse in Joplin, MO after F-5 tornado hit there. I googled and found it for you.

At least a few staff members have already resigned. Angie Abner is one.

Not because she wanted to. Nursing is her passion. She aches to return.

But two days after the tornado, having worked exhaustive hours at Memorial Hall, she went home for a few hours of sleep. At 4 a.m., she said, she was found delirious, sleepwalking down the road from her home in Webb City, north of Joplin, trying to get to St. John’s.

“I was asking for Lacie,” Abner said.

Other nights, her husband has awakened to find her up but still asleep, wrapping toilet paper around furniture like bandages.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/18/2959600/condition-gray-inside-the-hospital.html

I hope that your wife gets to stay with you and children that she obviously loves. Do you have any idea what triggered it to cause her to fear for her daughter, tried to save her during her dream/sleepwalking? All of you are in my warm thoughts and prayers.

[Land Shark]

58. THANK YOU! Can't everyone just accept that sometimes true tragedies occur, like that nurse?

The question is only one of supervised visitation, not family reunion. The state treating doc (the one that knows the most) has already said he sees no issue with it, and I don't see why supervised visitation is not a reasonable solution that all can agree on.

Henry Kissinger, who didn't say much I agreed with, nevertheless said something to the effect that Americans can not accept a tragedy (there must be someone to blame, was the idea). Basically my wife have major depression and concurrent migraines, and it went into a psychotic feature. By saying this, people should not imply that I don't think treatment is necessary, etc. All of that is so freaking obvious, on this end, that it's almost amusing people who think it should be mentioned.

[loudsue]

52. My ex-husband used to sleep-walk. One night

while he was studying and regularly practicing karate, I woke up with him sitting on my chest, he had my arms pinned, and he was head-butting me in a karate move. With all my might, I heaved him off the bed, and he landed on the floor, furious that I had thrown him out of bed. He had absolutely no recognition of what he had done.

A few years prior to this, he had gotten a medical deferment from the draft (this was 1970) because of his sleep-walking. It's very scarey to see, because the person sleep-walking is truly ASLEEP. They aren't making decisions, they are having visions in their dreams.

Paul, I am so sorry you and your family are having to go through this. This is the WORST example of bureaucracy gone stinkingly bad. There should be a government oversight department tasked with handling just this kind of idiocy on the part of bureaucrats gone amuck.

I wish you and yours a quick and thorough healing from this mess.

kickin' it.

[rbnyc]

59. When I was in college...

...I was working in a restaurant and one day the manager did not show up. He called me and said there was an emergency and could I cover for him. The next day he explained. He had a sleepwalking incident in which he woke up in the middle of the night standing in front of his bathroom mirror having pulled out one of his teeth with a pair of plyers.

[Land Shark]

63. Thanks for the example. I mean this in the nicest way: that's insane!

Karita "woke up" and went into a catatonic state of horror at what had occurred. Then she became severely catatonic and despondent in jail, losing a lot of weight from not eating until she finally got out of there because of incompetence as she degenerated greatly in jail.

Lucky for your restaurant manager, he was the only one hurt and presumably there were no witnesses and also no crime to be forced to plead insanity to.

[mmonk]

75. I too have seen sleep walking with my own two eyes.

A friend of mine in college had a roommate that did it. If you walked into the room, you would have thought the person wasn't a lucid person. But other than that, nothing would give you any reason to indicate the person was "sleep walking". He was talking and could answer questions but the unusual thing I noticed was that he was holding a book on American History upside down and when my friend asked him what he was doing, he said he was studying his math. Later (which my friend shouldn't have done), my friend told him to go to the bathroom and look in the mirror, then take a glass of water and throw it in his own face. He said ok, laughed, and did it and it woke him up and shocked him. Making someone do that, I understand, is dangerous to the person however.

[EFerrari]

82. My mom, my brother and I have all sleepwalked.

Mom used to dream that she was choking and she'd drag herself from her bed out to the kitchen, trying to get a drink of water. I remember standing silently with my uncle and my grandmother in the kitchen watching as she reached up into the sink and being told to be quiet so as not to wake her suddenly, which is probably an old wives tale. My brother talks in his sleep and has occasionally gotten dressed and wandered through the house. I haven't, since I was a little girl but once my family found me dressed and out on the front steps, in my sleep, when I was about 6. I'm not sure what woke them up, maybe the front door being opened and shut. I had no recollection of how I got there, none at all.

[mmonk]

86. How did you feel when you found yourself there?

Just curious. You may not remember.

[EFerrari]

87. I don't remember.

[varelse]

65. You have a beautiful little girl

She needs her mom. I will do what I can to support you.

[Land Shark]

79. Thank you so much. She needs a mom & her mom Made her more than I

I think my daughter is Exhibit A. Given how wonderful she is, inside and out, and how Karita was a full time mom for so many years, how is it possible to maintain such a negative view overall of Karita (without arguing that parenting is irrelevant)? Either iida's "resilience" is a product of her upbringing, giving her large stores or deposits in her "love bank" so to speak (which is moreso from her mom), or else the event was less traumatic than nearly everyone would imagine. Or some of both.

What people do to a very-involved mother like Karita they also do to her daughter. If Karita's a "defective" for this one act, than Iida is the daughter of a "defective." Actually, Iida knows better because she knows her Mom well, but suggesting (even though it would wash off her back) that her mom is some kind of monster is just not true, and especially not cool.

(But there are those tiny few, none of them doctors, who think I'm in denial of her monster-hood or something along those lines. Sigh. Basically, in the case of those folks, what they would call the victims (us) have to counsel and be the supporter of non-victims, or else just let the monster stuff slide... That kind of role reversal doesn't seem fair, or cool, or anything else. They only way the role reversal can be maintained or created is through a radical failure to really listen respectfully prior to coming to a conclusion or judgment)

[lib_wit_it]

66. This is disturbing on so many levels. I can't imagine how you've had the strength to handle

it. And people just cannot objectively evaluate a situation when mental illness is involved.

Let's say your daughter was an infant and your wife had accidentally dropped or kicked (or dropped and kicked!) your daughter while having an epileptic fit. It would be awful. There would be difficult decisions to be made about whether it was safe for her to care for your daughter unsupervised.

But I can guarantee you that the attitude would be far different towards your wife. I saw a comment on one of the stories online where someone wrote, "That woman is disgusting!" There were more comments to that effect that I couldn't stomach reading. Would those things have been said in the epileptic? No. Because it would be clear that an accident had happened. That harm had been caused by something out of her control.

My family has been deeply affected by the ravages of mental illness. Nothing quite as tragic as what has happened to your family, but, as in your case, problems are exacerbated by prejudice and ignorance.

I wonder about so much of what was done to make this ordeal worse for your family. I don't understand why any person, especially someone who is ill, would be made to sleep on a concrete floor? Why the isolation? Why can the facts not be made known--the emergency surgery claim for instance?

I can only imagine how hard this is for you and your children. I can't even bear to think about how hard this is for your wife.

I am dealing with some difficult issues in my own family, so I have little to share, but I will try to help. I wish you and your family strength and luck and love and everything else you need.

[Land Shark]

67. Thank you for this good example and your thoughts

Yes, if a mother has a seizure and drops a baby, she might well get criminal charges especially if there are any other facts at all that can be interpreted into suspicion (officials believe they are "acting on the side of safety" but that also means they are over-terminating the rights of others, in order to be on that safe side)

If someone having a grand mal epileptic seizure kicked and hit you and injured you, would you hold it against that person or have a lot of emotional trauma? Quite probably neither. That's why Iida never held anything against her mom in the first place, it was obvious she was in some kind of other state that had nothing to do with anger or ingesting alcohol or substances or anything like that. So the injury is analogous to the injury received from someone having a epileptic seizure.

Facts like the fact there was no "emergency surgery" could be made known if folks were interested in admitting to error, but human beings aren't all that good at that. I got the feeling the defense did not wish to make that factual correction their battle because They didn't want to appear to be in "denial" of the charge and risk the plea, even though the prosecutor supported it.

Too often, the accusation IS the evidence, and a mistake made in the first few hours of a case survives till the very end of the case.

[GardeningGal]

69. I'm so sorry your family is going through this. It must be very difficult.

I will certainly try and send a card or something to encourage your children. They must be having a hard time with this. I will also send you a little via paypal but it will need to wait until the 15th.

Otherwise, just know that some of us out here in DU land are thinking of you and wishing you the best.

[Land Shark]

74. Thanks so much for your thoughts and offer here

The children are not, YET, having a hard time with this because I have not, yet, told them about not being able to see their mom when she gets out. Hoping the situation will change and that this won't come true in the future. But it seems fairly likely that it will.

[magical thyme]

70. I'm so sorry for what your family has been through

and continues to suffer.

I apologize, too, for the few who take it upon themselves to judge you based on a couple internet articles, lack of knowledge of the legal system and terminology, and excess trust in a system that can all too easily turn into a Kafkaesque nightmare. People who make mistakes in their rush to judgement are all too often unwilling to subsequently admit mistakes, instead covering them up and doubling down on accusations and threats. Personally, I tangle with "authorities" only when forced to, and then with huge caution.

The only advice I can offer is to be phenomenally patient, don't give them *any* ammunition to use against you, keep as low a profile as you can, and try to slide through this nightmare like water permeates granite. Unless, of course, they overreach to the point that you can threaten to sue their asses off. It takes time, but in time the truth will out.

You mentioned there was a divorce in process. Maybe once that happens, CPS will feel sufficiently "in control" to back off a bit.

If you are not working, perhaps you can find work in a neighboring state and start rebuilding there. That is, if CPS will allow you and your children to leave?

[Land Shark]

77. Thanks (and here's an example of the Kafkaesque nightmare you mention)

Kafkaesque: In "The Trial", the protagonist Kafka sets out doesn't know what he's on trial for. Somewhat similarly, in a case like this one, there's a real trial with stated charges, but the real charges are unstated: it's to take away your parental rights. So I saw a bunch of jockeying between the prosecutor and the defense counsel in light of what the real issues were of parental rights as well as immigration issues. The prosecutor later admitted, but only after I sent a letter of inquiry, that an ICE agent had been in contact with their office and admitting there must be an 'immigration issue of some kind.' Subsequently the not guilty disposition, I'm told, made the immigration issues go away. So there's a Kafkaesque sense of not knowing what the real charges are, at least not all of them.

But then it goes further, as shown in the OP, even though a finding of not guilty was entered and all criminal records were therefore destroyed by operation of law and court order, in a very real sense being found not guilty results and resulted here in an arguably worse outcome: civil commitment, the stigma of that as well as NGRI, and a demand that there be no visitation with the children even upon release - a form of relief they could not have obtained had they won in the original action against Karita for termination of parental rights that was in fact filed, then later dismissed. It's arguably worse because many or even most people, forced to choose, would choose prison over not being able to see their children. Thus, a not guilty disposition in cases like these is arguably equal to or worse than a guilty disposition in terms of practical effect.

Kafkaesque Michigan case law: one case says that merely being in prison is not grounds for termination of parental rights. But, being in prison AND wanting to reunite with your children IS grounds for termination. Thus, the only way to keep your parental rights is not to care to ever reunite with them. There's a catch-22 for sure.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

71. I am deeply sorry your families plight. I do have one question...

Given that the event that evening was not a serious or violent action per your description, why was 911 called ?

Who called 911 and what services were you expecting them to offer if your daughter was not injured and your
wife was merely "sleepwalking?"

Unless I'm misunderstanding your description of the knife wound and your wife's peaceful submission when you
approached her describing her as "sleepwalking," I don't understand calling 911. I'm just thinking you or whomever
called 911 determined the situation required involvement of police and medical support.

[Land Shark]

72. trying to give a fair OVERALL impression here (read OP as a WHOLE)

I called 911, as stated in the OP several times.

But the fact remains that I take any injury to a child seriously, and I and every one else (I believe) has a legal DUTY to report it. There's no option of anything that could be later interpreted as a "cover up."

The OP, like any document, needs to be read as a whole. I've found, via a year of experience, that nobody gets anything close to the truth by reading the papers, because it seems the word "stabbed" just doesn't create the visual possibility of the CIRCUMSTANCES that greatly mitigated the trauma here.

on edit: Regardless of sanity or insanity, criminality or not, an injury of this type has to be reported, and I also wanted immediate medical attention, as well as a police investigation immediately (though frankly I had not expected them to ignore the evidence of insanity to the full extent that they did). So, it was a no brainer to me to call 911. Yet I asked my son more than once to get me the phone and he "couldn't find it" though I told him where it was. I think he sensed that a 911 call would lead to more reaction than he wanted to see, but again I think there's a duty to call, and there was cause to call, because I'm not a doctor so my conclusion that it all seemed OK would not hold necessarily if there were serious internal injury.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

73. Thank you. n/t

[lib_wit_it]

78. Don't you mean, "Thank you, and I apologize for asking you a question, the answer to which I would

have known had I bothered to carefully read your post before suggesting by my question that perhaps I've found a little 'gotcha' in your story"? But thanks for proving Paul's point that people don't like to admit mistakes.

I do appreciate that you at least expressed some compassion before launching your unnecessary investigation and probably meant no harm. However, Paul, who among other things, obviously needs to be truly heard on this issue, seems to be a far more patient person than I, so I don't presume to speak for him with this reaction.

But I find it vexing. I see this sort of thing as a major problem in our political discourse, as well as life in general. People want to have an opinion, usually a negative one, (i.e. there's some possibly damning discrepancy in this guy's story, Obama's a socialist, etc.) before grasping enough of the facts, often despite those facts being available, even presented, to them, to have a valid opinion.

I'm sure I'm often guilty in this as well, but in a case like this, dealing directly with an actual deeply suffering human being, I hope I'm especially careful before expressing the negative.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

80. I don't know Paul and

am not the least bit interested in passing judgement on what is a very complicated and
tragic situation that he choose to post on a public message board. I had a straight forward
question and asked it. Paul gave me a very logical and thoughtful answer and i thanked him.

You have a problem with that, too f**king bad.

[Land Shark]

83. You know a little more now! :)

My take is that the particular reply was more of an "in general" reply, but that you were not the best person to reply to in that vein since you weren't passing judgement, as you said.

It seemed to be a more reasonable reply to those few others who take the stance that if you don't believe the accusations read in the media, then you are "minimizing" the situation or in "denial." Under those approaches (which don't apply to you) the accusation is then the evidence as well as the proof, since anybody contesting the accusation is engaging in improper "minimization" or "denial".

The bigger picture of dozens more replies is that I appreciate the thoughts, support, hugs and prayers and even just questions for more information.

[lib_wit_it]

88. Thanks for proving my point, again. I clearly explained the problem, and your failure to grasp

it, and, more-so, your hostility at even being asked to consider it is your problem--and *that's* what's too f**king bad.

[EFerrari]

81. I'm not aghast because I have dealt with the police and the state

over family mental health. But i am horrified for you and your family.

Will do my best to get up to speed in the next few days.

[Land Shark]

94. I can see why you can relate based on the examples you give upthread

Yeah, that's the the general nightmare of society's response as you illustrate here from your own experience: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002403469#post91

You OK or still recovering from all that?

[EFerrari]

96. I'm still trying to figure out what kind of recovery is possible.

Doug isn't in prison or homeless or dead so, even if we did finally divorce, that's something. The systems I worked hard to put around him to catch him are holding up pretty well. There are things I can never recover like my academic standing or my clean police record or my good credit. That would take money and support and those are in short supply. My health is somewhat better and I'm very clear about what happened, so there's that. I'm grateful to have mostly survived that battle and sympathize with families who are still in it.

[Land Shark]

97. Thanks for this example of making it through (mostly)

For me, I'd like to see my children get their desire to make it through, and not lose their mother through the age of 18.

For Karita and me, since we stayed together for the sake of the children (she was a great au pair before I met her), sustaining the family living arrangement (together) is not such a big issue. So, while I am opposed to forced-divorce (a dynamic common in these kinds of cases) the application of force is not what's leading to divorce, anyway.

But there is a general issue in these kinds of cases that is the flip side of the right to marry, and it is the question of forced divorce. Just to give one example of the pressures in this area, hospitalization is $800 per day and the spouse is required to pay for some portion of that, unless they show a valid divorce decree, and there is no exception for situations like ours when an incident within the family is what leads to hospitalization.

[mdmc]

99. Nami

Join your local nami organization. It might help..

[Land Shark]

107. I'm sure they would have other roughly similar stories like those in the reply thread. nt

[Devil_Fish]

100. Kicking so I can come back later.

I'm not sure what I can do, but I'm am going to help you some how even if it is only a card.

[Land Shark]

103. Thanks, and feel free to PM with questions, or ask them here.

[2 Much Tribulation]

104. kick

[Land Shark]

109. "spacey and entirely sweet. She had nary a mean bone in her body or soul."

The subject line above is a description of Merja Karita Lehto (my wife) that I received via email from a person on this site, and because it is accurate (as much as such few words convey) and succinct, I thought I would share it.

[Devil_Fish]

111. Family means the world.

I wish you and yours the best of everything. I'm going through the ringer myself right now too, fortunantly not as bad as you but it is tough. I hope you can manage it, and I hope your family reunites sooner then later.

D_F

[Land Shark]

119. Yes, and the world should be a family, too.

Good luck with your situation, D_F!

[Liberty Belle]

112. What a nightmare. Could moving to another state help?

Maybe the laws are different elsewhere, and maybe when she gets out she could move away too and a court in another state might be willing to award supervised visitation, which would seem reasonable to me.

I also wonder if she's been to a sleep disorder clinic, if the issue ever recurs that would be something to try.

I can only imagine what anguish you and those kids have been though, and am so sorry to hear of it.

If you ever come back here to San Diego for a visit let me know and I can probably rustle up some free zoo passes (a family member works there) for you and the children.

[Land Shark]

116. There's more to the story than meets the eye here,

but those parts deleted for reasons of length (like what happened after the exploratory tube-surgery I authorized, et al.) don't change the overall points here.

[nashville_brook]

123. a late k and r

[2 Much Tribulation]

126. kick

[Joe Chi Minh]

127. Thank you for the welcome back, Paul.

I'm very sorry to hear you and your family are still suffering such deeply painful trials and tribulations. I get the impression that fighting so long and so hard to preserve your family has somehow made you stronger, instead of breaking you. Long may it last - but without the ordeals.