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Thu Nov 14, 2013, 06:17 AM

The saddest thing, is that none of the trauma of ACA had to occur

If ONLY our leaders had truly been interested in US, instead of making sure that the insurance companies had "new" customers to replace all of us Boomers who are FINALLY graduating into health CARE, instead of health INSURANCE.

Medicare is up and operating.. and knows who we all are, and how much money we make (see the FICA-box on your checks). They KNOW who is eligible for subsidies.

EVERYONE should have had the opportunity to enroll in Medicare, and pay proportionally by age/income.. and we would be DONE with the nonsense.

The insurance companies could still sell "add-on" policies, if they choose to....or they could sell their magnificent buildings, racing yachts ..and just be thankful for their 30 year pillage..

and their fat-cat CEO's could find a new way to make $100+ million a year salaries..

Gradually, the VA could be just for the specialized treatments so necessary, and vets could go to anyplace near them...and not have to drive such long distances for treatment.

Employers would no longer control employees through extortion -by-healthcare..

people could start businesses because their healthcare is not tied to their particular job..

companies might actually benefit too because they would not be wasting time & money haggling over care for their employees.. They could go back to hiring people to do a task, paying THEM the extra money they had been wasting .

The insurers have very dirty hands in the ACA.. They actively sabotaged the origins of the law, and then "magnanimously" agreed to participate only because they are the winners... and even then, they could not resist the temptation to meddle and undermine.

There are millions of 30-65 yr olds who would LOVE to be embraced by Medicare..and who would gladly pay premiums to the USA, instead of Aetna..(and all the others)_

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Reply The saddest thing, is that none of the trauma of ACA had to occur (Original post)
SoCalDem Nov 2013 OP
IronLionZion Nov 2013 #1
SoCalDem Nov 2013 #2
B Calm Nov 2013 #3
SoCalDem Nov 2013 #4
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #6
SoCalDem Nov 2013 #7
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #9
B Calm Nov 2013 #10
rtracey Nov 2013 #14
B Calm Nov 2013 #17
uponit7771 Nov 2013 #21
SHRED Nov 2013 #13
INdemo Nov 2013 #5
ancianita Nov 2013 #8
Billsmile Nov 2013 #11
IdaBriggs Nov 2013 #12
ananda Nov 2013 #15
SoCalDem Nov 2013 #22
gulliver Nov 2013 #16
Conium Nov 2013 #18
truedelphi Nov 2013 #30
SoCalDem Nov 2013 #33
truedelphi Nov 2013 #34
Dawgs Nov 2013 #19
truedelphi Nov 2013 #31
zeemike Nov 2013 #20
KittyWampus Nov 2013 #23
Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #25
leftstreet Nov 2013 #26
flamingdem Nov 2013 #24
SoCalDem Nov 2013 #27
Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #28
flamingdem Nov 2013 #29
kelliekat44 Nov 2013 #32
functioning_cog Nov 2013 #35
Jesus Malverde Nov 2013 #36

Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 06:46 AM

1. Medicare is still the payment system, not the care provider system

And the VA is the care provider system.

but I get your point.

When we finally get single payer, we will win support by marketing it as pro-business, because it is. Just ask the American manufacturing companies who have plants in Canada.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:06 AM

2. Too many vets use the VA system because it;s all they can afford

and many have to travel miles and miles for appointments that could easily be handled closer to home....

The VA's resources need to be given over to treatment for acutely ill vets and those who are in end-stage illnesses. The day to day medical needs could easily be handled locally IF they were in Medicare..

I have many Vietnam era friends who have to spend a WHOLE DAY when they have an appointment because they have to travel on busy freeways..

A friend lives closer to Pettis, but for some reason, they have transferred his "case" to San Diego, so of course he does not go as often as he probably should

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:08 AM

3. I blame congressional republicans!

 

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Response to B Calm (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:11 AM

4. They are the culprits NOW, but when it was passed, we had house and senate

and the obvious was ignored, in favor of the most complicated.

Sometimes you just have to "start over"..ans that was our window of opportunity..... and our leaders slammed the window on our fingers

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:22 AM

6. Well ...

 

though I, too, favor medicare for all ... let's not re-write history. The most complicated was passed because it was what could be passed; there weren't, and probably still aren't, the Medicare for all. Period.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:26 AM

7. Ask the citizens & you'll find otherwise.

Because congressional folks are only there to keep getting re-elected, they only care about donor money (99% of them)..

If we ever had real term limits (like we limit presidents), we would have enough "churn" to probably start addressing public needs..

The USA knows nothing of "the commons'.. We are expert at sending people to congress who perpetually misrepresent us..

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:37 AM

9. "Ask the citizens" ...

 

doesn't apply in our form of government.

Term-limits come with a whole bunch of problems that make it arguably worse for We D. People ... for example, TLs moves all the power to the lobbyists and, more, to bureacrats. TLs encourage elected officials to be less responsive to the people and more self-serving as they seek to make all they can in (whatever) the term. TLs encourage legislators to re-invent the wheel, rather than build on past accomplishment ... I could go on ...

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:38 AM

10. We do have term limits, it's called elections.

 

but, I know what you're saying.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:38 AM

14. not true

 

Elections are not term limits. Too many elections are rigged by illegal election laws and gerrymandering, but term limits put the limit on time, not election.....american people must insist on term limits on ALL elected officials.

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Response to rtracey (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:44 AM

17. I don't agree!

 

I agree there are problems with gerrymandering, voter suppression etc etc. but, we can vote the bastards out. The gerrymandering and voter suppression needs to be dealt with. I'd hate to think that good guys like Bernie Sanders would be limited to a term.

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 10:12 AM

21. Citizens are interested in good policy, republicans aren't

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Response to B Calm (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:37 AM

13. Max Baucus is not a Republican

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:21 AM

5. The ACA was suppose to be simular to what you've

 

just described but after a 2 million+ plus spending spree in ads by the insurance companies against this Medicare type one payer system The President took what he could get. And then every Democrat that spoke said "this is a start." The ACA is as if the insurance companies wrote this bill and except for preexisting health conditions allowed, the ACA act is no where near what the President wanted. I think when they built the healthcare.gov website it was loaded with Right Wing techs whose job it was to make sure the site had these flaws without making it obvious to other techs....
I mean if they can steal an election by changing vote tallies, than rigging a web site should be elementary.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:35 AM

8. It's not sad that a rollout isn't perfectly smooth. It could have been better, but the

ongoing popular media logic that everyone's so reactive to is, "If it isn't perfect, then it's crap; let's throw the whole thing out, and carp loudly about its imperfections until we can throw it out. "

I don't buy into this immature, all-or-nothing framing, which completely disregards the ACA's intrinsic, long term worth to Americans and the whole economy.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:25 AM

12. Agreed. Kick. Rec. (nt)

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:39 AM

15. Uh oh. I have Aetna Medicare Advantage now.

But I'm keeping it because the doctors take it
and it has some good aspects.

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Response to ananda (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:15 PM

22. Advantage/supplementals are not a problem.. Medicare is your safety net

and I am ticking off the days until I can sign up for medicare.. Come on April 2014

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:44 AM

16. No need to be sad.

What you are saying is wrong, so there is no need to be sad—at least for the reasons you are giving. The current ACA barely squeaked by Congress. It was and is the only hope for healthcare reform in this country. If it fails, healthcare reform will be dead for the next decade.

So what is sad is the failure of some people to support the only viable option available. What is sad is what could be lost: health care for millions and a trajectory toward single payer. It will be gone, and those who undermine it in the name of pie in the sky will be largely to blame.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:46 AM

18. SCOTUS wrecked the Affordable Care Act.

Medicaid expansion was a vital part of the ACA.

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Response to Conium (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 10:49 PM

30. How did SCOTUS hurt the MediCaid expansion?

Not trying to be snarky, just really don't know.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 05:58 AM

33. They ruled that individual states could opt-out of the medicaid expansion

and since the state-run exchanges were never truly mandatory, GOP governors/state legislatures could freeze their states out of ACA.. Florida's gov (Scott, a.k.a. Skeletor) apparently even disallowed "facilitators" for ACA, whose only mission was to educate.

The aca.gov site was always planned to augment the state exchanges....not to be the MAIN sign up spot. Every state has their own insurance regulations, ans if the states set up their own exchanges, they could weave their own "quirks" into the fabric of the ACA.. By NOT participating, they forced the .gov site to create not only the main site, but to add every one of the TWENTY SIX recalcitrant, obstinate states' vagaries to an already difficult mix.

Without expanding medicaid AND not creating a state exchange, their citizens could not even know if they qualified for anything they could afford, AND they were subjected to an onslaught of lies & propaganda.



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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 05:26 PM

34. Thanks for this important info. n/t

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 09:01 AM

19. There are a lot of middle class people that work for health insurance companies.

 

I'm 100% for single payer, but please don't act like it's only the rich CEO's that would be hurt by switching.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 10:53 PM

31. Hwever if that is the function of the government - to throw subsidies into a program so

Middle Class people could have jobs, we would all be a lot better off if those subsidies went into some other program.

Example: solar and wind technology.
If the middle class people were pushing around the paperwork offering up approval for putting solar cells on every home and business rooftop, rather than arguing with sick people over the phone about whether a treatment is experimental and not covered or is indeed acceptable, I know I would sleep better at night.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 09:03 AM

20. And that is what pisses me off about all of this.

the simple fix would have been to just lower the eligibility age for Medicare to 25 or so and all people would have access to health care with no big program needed.
And it would have been good for Medicare because younger and more healthy people would be in the pool...
The reason of course is that the insurance industry did not want compitition...and our politicians work for them not us.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:16 PM

23. So there was some kind of magic wand that would have republicans voting for Single Payer>

 

Medicare for all?

Yes, this "trauma" is necessary. Life is messy and filled with pain and suffering. That fact leads us to improve things and progress.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:20 PM

25. Not one Republican voted for the ACA as it is. So what do Republicans have to do with it?

 

Not one of them voted for the 'compromise'. So the blame goes to Blue Doggy Democrats who opposed a Public Option or any excellent legislation of any sort. 'Mediocrity in service to Moderation!'.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:20 PM

26. Yeah. The power of public pressure

If Americans knew the Democrats wanted to expand Medicare, GOPer phones and emails would have imploded

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:19 PM

24. Medicare is not free, personally I'm better off on the Silver

plan than on Medicare. Plus, on a PPO I can pretty much chose doctors.

Medicare costs my parents a pretty sum per year since they carry extra coverages.

I don't really know how all that works, gotta figure it out to make my case since I'm not all that certain.

That said it was Joe Lieberman who nixed the chance for the Medicare age to be lowered to 55

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:24 PM

27. I never said it was free.. But the inner-workings of the program are in place

it's time-tested and it's popular with the people.. it would have been an easy fold-in... and rates could have been set based on age (like all policies are)..

Jowl Lieberman is a turd in the punchbowl

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:25 PM

28. I've met a great deal of people who are on Medicare wanting to join the Marketplace...

And they can't. It's illegal, unfortunately. Medicare For All would have had its issues too.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:30 PM

29. There are some sweet spots in ACA

I do agree with some criticisms related to that but hope it's not changed!

If one has a very low income, one's assets are not considered and one can have super health insurance for a hundred bucks a month.

Yes, if I had basic Medicare only I'd be jealous!

However most people on Medicare now never got raked for horrible insurance as I have.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 10:56 PM

32. Everything happens for a reason. I am willing to wait and see. nt

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 05:32 PM

35. Blame Baucus, Liandreau, Nelson, Lieberman and Repukes

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 05:42 PM

36. Ive totally missed the generation shift you describe in your first sentence.

Thank you for pointing it out.

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