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Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:23 PM

 

We are the "evil empire" we warned everybody about

We are the bad guys - WE are the "evil empire." America is an authoritarian, murderous, short sighted, genocidal empire.
We always HAVE been an empire: our history is written in the blood of those who we killed for "civilization."

We are not a kinder gentler empire - there is no such thing. The empire is spending our kids' future, and making us the most hated people on Earth. And right now we deserve that designation. We ARE the bad guys. We ARE the evil empire. We ARE the boogeyman that we scare people into joining the army. There has never, ever been a just war. The kind of people who want to keep the empire are either (a) crypto-fascists or (b) people who never read the final chapter on the history of empires. Guess what? Empires fall, always. And when they do, it is not pretty. We need nothing more than a national guard.

The army needs to be abolished, period. There is no need for anything beyond a national guard at this point. "But what about the terrorists?" you might ask. They're already dwindled down to nothing, and the new recruits are all the result of our actions.

Empires fall, always. And when they do, nasty shit happens.

It is not a matter of if but when.

I think our genocidal government needs to come out of the closet as crypto-fascists. That includes all of the Feinstein DINOs, John Kerry Hypocrites and "hawks."

161 replies, 15367 views

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Arrow 161 replies Author Time Post
Reply We are the "evil empire" we warned everybody about (Original post)
Taverner Oct 2013 OP
1000words Oct 2013 #1
Taverner Oct 2013 #3
kelliekat44 Oct 2013 #157
pintobean Oct 2013 #2
greytdemocrat Oct 2013 #70
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #4
Taverner Oct 2013 #5
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #6
Taverner Oct 2013 #8
Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #41
Skidmore Oct 2013 #107
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #7
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #9
Taverner Oct 2013 #16
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #22
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #18
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #26
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #29
RKP5637 Oct 2013 #36
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #43
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #61
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #66
ReRe Oct 2013 #140
pintobean Oct 2013 #25
DJ13 Oct 2013 #128
mr blur Oct 2013 #13
Taverner Oct 2013 #15
treestar Oct 2013 #139
brush Oct 2013 #120
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #10
Taverner Oct 2013 #12
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #19
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #46
Taverner Oct 2013 #55
Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #79
Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #31
LineLineLineReply .
sagat Oct 2013 #56
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #83
SidDithers Oct 2013 #127
SidDithers Oct 2013 #27
idwiyo Oct 2013 #146
beachbum bob Oct 2013 #11
Taverner Oct 2013 #14
Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #39
EX500rider Oct 2013 #91
SamYeager Oct 2013 #23
Taverner Oct 2013 #49
Post removed Oct 2013 #17
Seeking Serenity Oct 2013 #20
Taverner Oct 2013 #44
Seeking Serenity Oct 2013 #52
Post removed Oct 2013 #57
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #104
SamYeager Oct 2013 #21
Taverner Oct 2013 #47
BainsBane Oct 2013 #94
treestar Oct 2013 #24
pintobean Oct 2013 #28
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #30
choie Oct 2013 #34
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #37
stevenleser Oct 2013 #68
Incitatus Oct 2013 #88
choie Oct 2013 #89
stevenleser Oct 2013 #96
Incitatus Oct 2013 #106
choie Oct 2013 #113
treestar Oct 2013 #136
NuclearDem Oct 2013 #144
Taverner Oct 2013 #40
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #87
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #117
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #119
RobertEarl Oct 2013 #121
SidDithers Oct 2013 #132
treestar Oct 2013 #137
malaise Oct 2013 #126
SidDithers Oct 2013 #32
Taverner Oct 2013 #38
FSogol Oct 2013 #124
FSogol Oct 2013 #123
WeekendWarrior Oct 2013 #33
Taverner Oct 2013 #63
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #35
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #50
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #74
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #81
stevenleser Oct 2013 #98
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #101
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #116
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #118
pintobean Oct 2013 #122
antigone382 Oct 2013 #159
Taverner Oct 2013 #77
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #84
antigone382 Oct 2013 #160
a la izquierda Oct 2013 #92
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #97
a la izquierda Oct 2013 #105
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #109
Incitatus Oct 2013 #111
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #112
Incitatus Oct 2013 #141
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #142
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #42
Taverner Oct 2013 #45
Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #48
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #53
Taverner Oct 2013 #72
noiretextatique Oct 2013 #76
geek tragedy Oct 2013 #90
treestar Oct 2013 #138
Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #51
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #54
Taverner Oct 2013 #64
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #67
Taverner Oct 2013 #71
BlueJazz Oct 2013 #58
Taverner Oct 2013 #60
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #62
BlueJazz Oct 2013 #108
ProSense Oct 2013 #59
Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #65
Taverner Oct 2013 #69
ProSense Oct 2013 #73
Taverner Oct 2013 #75
ProSense Oct 2013 #78
Taverner Oct 2013 #82
ProSense Oct 2013 #85
pintobean Oct 2013 #93
Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #115
pintobean Oct 2013 #80
ProSense Oct 2013 #95
pintobean Oct 2013 #99
arely staircase Oct 2013 #86
BKH70041 Oct 2013 #100
Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #102
quinnox Oct 2013 #103
stevenleser Oct 2013 #110
FSogol Oct 2013 #125
pintobean Oct 2013 #143
FSogol Oct 2013 #148
pintobean Oct 2013 #149
FSogol Oct 2013 #150
pintobean Oct 2013 #151
pintobean Oct 2013 #153
FSogol Oct 2013 #154
MindMover Oct 2013 #114
WillyT Oct 2013 #131
WillyT Oct 2013 #135
90-percent Oct 2013 #129
Octafish Oct 2013 #130
Pharaoh Oct 2013 #133
pnwmom Oct 2013 #134
Throd Oct 2013 #145
bobduca Oct 2013 #158
JoePhilly Oct 2013 #147
BeyondGeography Oct 2013 #152
Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #155
tenderfoot Oct 2013 #156
dionysus Oct 2013 #161

Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:26 PM

1. Considering the only emotion most Americans seem comfortable expressing is outrage ...

 

the fall will likely be an ugly affair.

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Response to 1000words (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:39 PM

3. Yep. Hyperinflation and racism - fun

 

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Response to 1000words (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:16 PM

157. From our inception. nt

 

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:31 PM

2. Kinda early

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Response to pintobean (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:24 PM

70. Very.

I guess he'll be leaving the country after he sobers up.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:41 PM

4. which is why so many flock to our borders and apply to our institutions of higher learning

 

because we are the root of all evil that is unmitigated by anything good in this treacherous territory we call home.

I'm glad you got that bit of dystopic creative writing off your chest. You have street cred now.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:42 PM

5. It's better to be within the walls of the castle than outside it

 

Next inane point?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:45 PM

6. no. most inane points were made in your OP so I'm all tapped out.

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:46 PM

8. No - if you support the empire, then I want nothing to do with your bloodlust

 

With your desire to see more dead as a result.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:12 PM

41. You seem pretty comfortable inside the castle walls.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #41)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:05 PM

107. .......

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Response to Taverner (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:45 PM

7. What...

 

You don't like the hear no evil -- blah, blah, blah, head in the sand responses to your elemental wisdom? What are you, some kind of historian?

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:46 PM

9. the "empire"'s fall will be long after you are gone

 

so I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. But still, "BUY GOLD!!!"

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:54 PM

16. Not if I can help it

 

I see it dying in the next 50 years, after China stops lending us money for neverending wars.

Why do you love the empire so?

What has it done for you?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:57 PM

22. quit putting words in my mouth

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:56 PM

18. So you only care about yourself?

 

No concern to you at all for the suffering of the rest of the world? Your only wisdom is to hoard gold? Thanks a lot, bub.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #18)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:58 PM

26. I'm satirizing you. Not serious about gold. Gold prices are currently in a falling trend.

 

I care about others in the world, I just find this kind of thread a caricature and not really helpful to the plight of others in the world. just a preaching to the choir "rah rah, America evil" kind of boredom thread.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:03 PM

29. You should move to Iraq

 

Maybe Afghanistan, where your empire is ruling.

Your so called satirizing is just you making yourself look like an ugly-American.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:09 PM

36. +++ 1,000 +++ n/t

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:13 PM

43. I can be unhappy about some of our foreign policy choices without resorting

 

to calling our country the "evil empire". Would you not admit there is room somewhere between epic self-hate as an American and slavish devotion to all the U.S. military industrial complex does to overreach?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #43)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:20 PM

61. Epic self-hate?

 

Calling the kettle black is epic self-hate? Realizing the truth is epic self-hate? Not wanting the military to conquer and rule the world is epic self-hate?

You really need to stop think about what you write. You are all over DU preaching this and that, and now we see you are not really thinking, just scribbling.

You and Cheney have the same love for Snowden. You ever think about that sad fact? You and Cheney; two real epic haters.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #61)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:22 PM

66. Cheney and I also like cheese steaks

 

I guess I am just Cheney's long lost twin.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:39 PM

140. That's the word, Robert Earl...

+

... Ugly American. It was on the tip of my tongue.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:58 PM

25. Mother, did it need to be so high?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:03 PM

128. Ahhhhhhhh!!!!

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:49 PM

13. Well it's certainly not for the health care, minimum wage, paid vacations, left-wing politics,

 

gun-free streets, socialist care system or religion-free politics.

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Response to mr blur (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:51 PM

15. Yep. If I lived in Afghanistan I would find Dearborn a safer place to live

 

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Response to mr blur (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:39 PM

139. Even with our terrible capitalistic health care system

People come from all over the world to use it - some are charitable cases. A lot of people here make more than minimum wage (I may think it should be raised but still it's not everyone making it), a lot have paid vacations. There is religious freedom here and people of every religion imaginable or none can follow as they choose.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:38 PM

120. Ahhh . . .

He's got some points there.

If you think terrorizing and killing people in countries thousands of miles from here with drones piloted remotely on screens by our military here in this country — like a video game — is not the stuff of evil empire, think again.

That kind of stuff creates hundreds of enemies of our country every day those drones kill.

Of course there will be blow back. There is no question of that. How is comes we don't know but denial is not shelter.

And the drones are just our latest. We've been involved in coups, assassinations, occupations and wars continuously since we assisted ex-pat American planters who wanted more acreage in Hawaii in the 1890s in overthrowing the Hawaiian monarchy.

And the coups, assassinations, occupations and wars have continued non-stop since then, all under the guise of spreading liberty and freedom, but really about using our military for corporations to gain access to other countries' (non-white countries) natural resources.

Read "Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change" by Stephen Kinzer. He lays it all out chonologically. There has not been a time since the 1890s that we haven't been involved in . . . well, evil empire behavior.

Sorry, but it's true. At least our current president has resisted getting involved in new and prime corporate war candidates like Egypt, Syria and Libya where much oil could have been reaped.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:47 PM

10. I hear Canada has plenty of room. Start packing your bags nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:49 PM

12. "If'n you don't LOVE 'Murica how bout you leave!"

 

Sorry, but your jingoism means nothing to me

I will put my heart into killing the American Empire

It deserves to die

Why do you love the empire? What has it done for you?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:56 PM

19. So, you're going to accomplish your goal by expressing your hatred of the USA

 

on the Internet?

you can do that from Canada

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:14 PM

46. lol. leave this guy alone. He worships Bill Hicks.

 

So you know he's legit. Oh wait. Bill Hicks wasn't a policy advisor but a comedian? Oh.......

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #46)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:18 PM

55. Ladies and Gentlemen, you will see above this post an ad hominem logical fallacy

 

That's what they look like

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Response to Taverner (Reply #55)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:29 PM

79. Wait, are you seriously accusing someone of a logical fallacy?



My comment about Bill Hicks was and is a non sequitur, not a retort. He sucks.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:05 PM

31. Oh bullshit. You're going to put your heart into seeking approval

for retread ideas like this.

And FYI - Bill Hicks might be the most overrated man in the history of this universe and probably most others.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:19 PM

56. .

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Response to sagat (Reply #56)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:30 PM

83. We should invade a town in Canada

 

And give that town an enema.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #83)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:01 PM

127. BeFree...nt

Sid

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:01 PM

27. Fuck that. We don't want him...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #27)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:25 PM

146. You are speaking for all Canadians now?

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:48 PM

11. handwringing at its best

 

People who think the world is a nice peaceful place.... Get real.

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:50 PM

14. We are in a state of perpetual war because of attitudes like yours

 

So keep your jingoism to yourself.

Some of us have consciences

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Response to Taverner (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:11 PM

39. Boredom is spelled b-o-r-e-d-o-m, not c-o-n-s-c-i-e-n-c-e-s nt

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Response to Taverner (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:36 PM

91. Right, the rest of the world would be a safe utopia..

...if not for the evil USA!

What a crock....without the USA the world would be a MUCH more violent place as North Korea attacked South and China attacks Taiwan and India, and Iran attacks the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia attacks Iraq and Greece and Macedonia get into it, then Russia takes back some old territories, etc, etc..

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:58 PM

23. It's like a reverse teabagger screed. n/t

 

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Response to SamYeager (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:15 PM

49. "'Murica, right or wrong!" Right?

 

People died in Iraq fighting for your freedom?

I bet you believe that too

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Response to Taverner (Original post)


Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:56 PM

20. Yeah yeah yeah

Whatever, dude.

Here's to the freedom enshrined in our Constitution that allows armchair warriors and interwebs rebels to say how much they hate the country that protects that freedom and how much they're gonna work to bring it down.

Woo hoo!

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Response to Seeking Serenity (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:13 PM

44. "Freedom" awash in the blood of millions

 

But some people insist on lying to themselves

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Response to Taverner (Reply #44)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:17 PM

52. Whatever, dude

Your over-wrought hyperbole does not impress.

On edit: Just for the record (and I'm not sure why I'm saying this), I did not alert on the below post.

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Response to Seeking Serenity (Reply #52)


Response to Seeking Serenity (Reply #52)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:54 PM

104. Too funny. Thanks for the laughs, Taverner.

 

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:56 PM

21. This has my vote for most ridiculous post in DU history. n/t

 

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Response to SamYeager (Reply #21)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:15 PM

47. And you are well acquainted with DU history after 309 posts?

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #47)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:39 PM

94. They can't seem to resist outing themselves

Now he's gone.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:58 PM

24. No we're not

We have not formally colonized any place. Empires colonize. And we are not evil. If we were, we'd have annexed Mexico to take their oil, colonized Venezuela. When we were the only remaining superpower, we didn't do a damn thing to conquer any other land.

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:01 PM

28. I think he's still

trying to recover from this.

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:04 PM

30. are you kidding?

you must be kidding.

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:08 PM

34. right....we only

played a role in the overthrow of other nations' democratically elected leaders (i.e. Chile's Allende, Iran's Mossadeq, etc.
killed god knows how many innocent people in illegal and immoral wars
blackmail other countries into doing unethical and undemocratic actions
help to privatize other nations' resources...

and you say we haven't colonized - we don't need to...we have 700+ bases all around the world

I could go on and on and on and on....

The truth is many on this board who are now so "America, love it or leave it", for some reason took off the rose-colored glasses when Bush was president. Take off the damn blinders...

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Response to choie (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:09 PM

37. +1000 this head in the sand, fingers in ears denial

is absurd.

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Response to choie (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:23 PM

68. You're going back 40 and 60 years to justify your point that our gov't is bad?

 

Why not go back 10 more years and say we need to refight WWII and invade Germany?

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:33 PM

88. We can go back about 10 years from today to the attempted coup in Venezuala.

Excuse me if I don't have much stock in the Bush administrations denial of involvement. Especially considering the stolen 2000 election and Iraq war.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:34 PM

89. uh...The Iraq invasion began 10 years ago and

the deadly repercussions continue to this day...

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Response to choie (Reply #89)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:44 PM

96. Which is still not the current administration. Your comment was present tense, not past tense. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #96)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:01 PM

106. The current administration's powers are limited as you know.

Last edited Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:39 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't see this as a thread to bash Obama. He is a hell of a lot better than the last guy and his previous opponents, but we should recognize there are some very powerful adversaries that don't care about anyone but themselves that must be defeated, and things that must be changed if we care about a prosperous country for future generations. As you have probably heard, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Don't think because this President hasn't orchestrated a coup or lied us into a war like Bush did that things will be hunky dory from now on.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #96)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:15 PM

113. Just because we have a Democrat as president doesn't mean

the U.S. is now a force for good in the world. OUR drone attacks are killing innocent people, we are still keeping innocent people imprisoned in Guantanamo without trial....that's under our CURRENT administration! How would you feel if you or your loved ones were locked away, their lives going by year after year in shackles...without the ability to prove their innocence. THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON NOW!!!

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Response to choie (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:32 PM

136. We have no colonies

All of those countries have their own governments.

Why exaggerate?

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Response to treestar (Reply #136)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:59 PM

144. You're clearly not familiar with the term neocolonialism.

 

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:11 PM

40. You are wrong: Hawaii, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Phillipines were former US Colonies

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:33 PM

87. Former. Hawaii is now a state that not only votes for our President, but

 

is the birthplace of our current one. Cuba and the Philippines are independent countries, and the main debate in Puerto Rico is whether to stick with being a territory or pursue statehood.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #87)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:32 PM

117. We need to colonize Canada

 

I hear there is a town there that needs an enema.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #117)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:35 PM

119. I would love it if Canada would become part of the US.

 

Enough Canadians would vote to give us single payer health care, gun registration, a vastly reduced military, and much better social policy.

Can we trade them for Texas?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #119)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:39 PM

121. Don't jump the shark

 

Lets see how the enema goes first. Then we can dither around with the rest.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #117)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:08 PM

132. BeFree...nt

Sid

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Response to Taverner (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:33 PM

137. And 3 of them aren't now

And one is a state. One wants to be a state.

An evil empire is one that hangs on, and we could have. Or gives the other areas lesser rights.

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:56 PM

126. Huh?

You did not write that

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:06 PM

32. Bring back Unrec...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #32)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:11 PM

38. Why do you love the empire?

 

Why do you think it should be beyond criticism?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #38)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:50 PM

124. I love the empire because that where I keep all my stuff.

The pale ales are pretty good too.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #32)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:49 PM

123. I second that. n/t

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:07 PM

33. And we have been for many decades. nt.

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Response to WeekendWarrior (Reply #33)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:20 PM

63. Since inception

 

Louisiana Purchase, Monroe Doctrine...

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:08 PM

35. well...half the country defends atrocity when their team does it

the other half is ignorant of america's murderous misadventures around the world: in central america, for example. you see both of those rationales right in this thread. and that, my friend, is the real reason why this empire is doomed. we can't even agree that much of what we've done around the world is in fact pure evil. many prefer to pretend we are benevolent and kindly, despite our many "burdens."

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #35)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:16 PM

50. Most people in Central America don't hate the United States the way you do. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #50)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:26 PM

74. not anymore, perhaps

do you think the loved when we were propping up murderous dictators? do you think out ridiculous "war of terror" is creating a bunch of friends? you and rest of the BOG are just ridiculous in your defense of the indefensible.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #74)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:30 PM

81. 1) I don't post in the BOG; 2) what is your obsession with that group;

 

3) you seem unable to process the possibility that people can criticize a lot of US history without wallowing in hatred.

That people fail to share your hatred of the United States is not a poor reflection on them.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #81)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:46 PM

98. It's easier to pound on a scapegoat than to come up with good arguments. That's the BOG fascination

 

in a nutshell.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #98)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:48 PM

101. It's weird, they treat BOG as not only pro-Obama cultists, but also rightwing jingoists

 

who have zero criticisms of the United States's past abuses.

Which is a contradiction in terms.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #81)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:27 PM

116. oh please: the OP is not "wallowing in hatred" and neither am I

so forgive me for assuming you were a part of that idiotic group that constantly posts over-heated hyperbole just as you did above. who decided YOU are the arbiter of what is and is not "hatred?"

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #116)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:33 PM

118. The OP was pure hatred of the United States. Allow me to bold all of the hate:

 

We are the "evil empire" we warned everybody about [View all]
We are the bad guys - WE are the "evil empire."

America is an authoritarian, murderous, short sighted, genocidal empire.

We always HAVE been an empire: our history is written in the blood of those who we killed for "civilization."

We are not a kinder gentler empire - there is no such thing. The empire is spending our kids' future, and making us the most hated people on Earth. And right now we deserve that designation. We ARE the bad guys. We ARE the evil empire. We ARE the boogeyman that we scare people into joining the army. There has never, ever been a just war. The kind of people who want to keep the empire are either (a) crypto-fascists or (b) people who never read the final chapter on the history of empires. Guess what? Empires fall, always. And when they do, it is not pretty. We need nothing more than a national guard.

The army needs to be abolished, period. There is no need for anything beyond a national guard at this point. "But what about the terrorists?" you might ask. They're already dwindled down to nothing, and the new recruits are all the result of our actions.

Empires fall, always. And when they do, nasty shit happens.

It is not a matter of if but when.

I think our genocidal government needs to come out of the closet as crypto-fascists. That includes all of the Feinstein DINOs, John Kerry Hypocrites and "hawks."


Quite honestly, this is more over the top in its hatred of the United States than anything bin Laden wrote. Literally.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #118)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:44 PM

122. Not to mention a long history. /nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #118)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:33 PM

159. Well, genocide is an undeniable fact of our nation's history...

...and given current statistics on a variety of indicators of health and well-being, we STILL are nowhere near making right our oppression of indigenous people in this country. It may vary a bit from the strict definitions of international law, but to my mind, the failure to meaningfully accept responsibility for prior genocide, and moreover to adequately redress its effect on present-day members of that population, is to perpetuate that genocide.

In all honesty, where I think this OP wanders into error is that it limits criticism to the U.S., rather than to the Western/Developed World at large. Granted at this point the most powerful actor is the United States, but European imperialism is the source of much of the ideology and practice of international economic policy, which effectively facilitates the destruction of many cultures and the ecosystems on which they depend, around the world. The fact is that global economic powerbrokers, almost all of them Western or having adopted Western practices, have complete economic and military hegemony over the rest of the world, with results that are increasingly only describable in genocidal terms.

I don't have time to get into the whole history of colonialism and the various forms of neocolonialism that have arisen over time, but if you are unfamiliar with it (and I don't assume that you are) I would suggest case studies of some former colonies. Either the film or the book "King Leopold's Ghost," which focuses on the Congo, is a good place to start. I would suggest a thorough study of the history and effects of the Bretton Woods institutions (the IMF, World Bank, and what became the WTO). I would suggest a review of structural adjustment programs, bilateral trade agreements, and the legacy of debt in the third world.

Lastly, in weighing whether the U.S. is guilty of genocide, consider the effects that climate change will undoubtedly have on billions of ethnic groups in the regions that will be hardest hit. You may argue that climate change doesn't count, since there is no direct intention to harm these people. At the same time, we are abundantly aware that populations are going to be displaced. We have abundant evidence that many of the poorest and most marginalized members of global society will suffer and die, and indeed many already are (the Arab Spring, the related conflict in Syria, and the conflict in Darfur all have strong links to ecological disruptions brought about by climate change).

Yet we choose to privilege our economic engines, our right to disproportionate resource use and waste generation to maintain our "standard of living" over the lives of these billions of people. To say that we are not choosing to murder them is analogous to saying that a drone operator does not do the killing when he or she pushes the button that drops bombs on strangers halfway around the world. Indirect violence is every bit as real as direct violence.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #50)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:28 PM

77. Really?

 

Is that why you see graffitti all over Latin American countries saying "USA Enemigo del mundo"?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #77)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:31 PM

84. How many times have you been to Central America?

 

Talked to actual human beings there?

Sorry, but your delusion that people share your hatred is kinda sad if you're resorting to taking graffiti as a sign of the will of the masses. Graffiti is one guy with a spray can.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #84)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:45 PM

160. Well, I have been there once, and much of my social group are Mexicans and Hondurans...

I am not fully fluent, but competent in Spanish, enough that I worked at my friend's Mexican Restaurant, where most workplace talk was in Spanish...So here's my perspective:

My context is a tiny island off the coast of Honduras. In many respects the folks here don't represent typical Central America; A Caribbean Creole dialect of English is spoken by most island natives, although a majority of the current population is from the Mainland. There is some resentment of America as a global superpower. At the same time, the American lifestyle is also admired and sought after, and in that sense America is glorified.

At the same time, the people seeking to identify with America and share in its "standard of living" complain about empty nets and wonder where the fish have gone (fishery decline is a huge problem in the Caribbean). They sell burgers, fries and coke to tourists and they can take a quick ferry to visit the Kentucky Fried Chicken on the mainland, but they complain that their native foods have become so expensive that they can no longer afford to prepare them. They complain about the problems of crime and violence, and wonder why things are so unstable. They complain about the loss of self-sufficiency and the erosion of small-scale industries that supported them, such as the coconut industry; while at the same time they take jobs which carry them across the ocean on trade barges. They see more and more of their land being bought up to build fancy resorts and condos, more and more of their streets filling up with casual tourists, more and more of their natural resources being co-opted and destroyed for lazy eco-tourism that destroys the very landscape it purports to honor. Many people on the island see these connections; many more do not; they are on the subsistence level and they only want their lives to get a little better; and aspiring to be "American" is one way they dream of doing that.

I live in one of the poorest and least healthy counties in America. Conditions here literally rival the third world, with people lacking basic things like running water and indoor plumbing. Yet I see people here voting against their own interests because they identify with the wealthy and the dominant all the time. So when I see the same among poor Latinos and Mexicans abroad and at-home, I don't assume that their love for America in any way removes the oppression and dispossession they suffer under American economic and foreign policy.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #50)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:36 PM

92. Do you know most people in Central America?

I'm not sure the hundreds of thousands dead would agree with your assessment.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #92)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:45 PM

97. I know my own experiences having traveled there at least once per year, plus

 

empirical reseach.

http://www.americasquarterly.org/gringo-stay-here



Sorry to disappoint, but haters are a minority.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #97)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:59 PM

105. I guess it depends who you talk to and where

I won't argue with your graph, or the article, which I skimmed (I'm grading). My research is in the region. My experiences are different. But then, I work with leftist and indigenous communities, not middle class Latin Americans, with whom I've have very little in common. The younger generations, like ours, don't remember the wretched decades of the past. They don't remember what their grandparents and parents experienced, as a result of deluded, violent US policies.

If they did, as your article so astutely pointed out, they would make precisely Taverner's point.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #105)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:07 PM

109. At some point, the past stops being the present.

 

What happened up through Poppy Bush was truly awful. Stomach-turning stuff.

The end of the Cold War benefited Central America moreso than it did Eastern Europe, imo. After the US stopped its "oppose Communism regardless of the body count" policy due to the death of Communism, things got a lot better down there.

What strikes me when traveling there is how much Central Americans dislike people from other Central American countries and especially Colombians.

Was with a local guy in Costa Rica, along with a couple from Georgia. Guy from Georiga starts talking about Mexicans and "illegal immigrants" and sounding like a complete racist asshole, because he was a complete racist asshole. I'm feeling really embarrassed, thinking the Tico would be offended at the obvious bigotry towards Latinos. Instead, he says "I know. We have the same problem with the Nicaraguans. They come here, and they steal and kill people."



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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #97)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:10 PM

111. The rest of the world is over 50% ant-American? WOW! nt

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #111)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:13 PM

112. Taken from Pew surveys during GW Bush administration nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #112)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:52 PM

141. OK, that explains a lot.

I still think there is an issue with the power and influence of the MIC that cannot be ignored and needs to be diminished. Another Bush type administration could happen.

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #141)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:54 PM

142. Sure, it's kind of like seeing someone when they're drunk.

 

You see what they're capable of at their worst. So, once they sober up, they're more appealing than when they were drunk, but ya still gotta be cautious.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:12 PM

42. why do you hate america?

i see some people are asking that question without the sarcasm thingy

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:14 PM

45. I know. As long as the guy has a D next to his name...

 

He could strangle puppies on live TV and they'd be 100% behind him

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Response to Taverner (Reply #45)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:15 PM

48. Let's see the puppies first nt

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:17 PM

53. Well, he does hate America, but I agree he explained that hatred pretty well, so

 

not sure why people are asking.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #53)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:25 PM

72. By that logic, I could say you LOVE war

 

You LOVE death, especially brown people dying

See how logic works, you do an ad hominem attack, and you look like an idiot

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Response to Taverner (Reply #72)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:28 PM

76. this sounds exactly like the wingnuts

who attacked us for not supporting the war on iraq.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #72)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:34 PM

90. No, I don't express admiration for war or death or killing brown people.

 

You did express hatred for the United States.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:36 PM

138. The right wingers were right in some cases

When they said we hated America because we didn't want war with Iraq, they were wrong. But in a few cases, inadvertently, they were right.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:16 PM

51. LOL

 

That's reassuring.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:17 PM

54. what is a crypto fascist?

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #54)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:21 PM

64. Someone who is secretly fascist

 

Rand Paul is a great example. He promotes "liberty" but if you read between the lines, he is a very authoritarian person

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Response to Taverner (Reply #64)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:23 PM

67. ahhhh....secret fascists. why not just say that?

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #67)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:25 PM

71. Crypto Fascist sounds cooler

 

I know we don't agree on this issue, but you can't tell me it's not a cool word....

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:19 PM

58. I agree and support your views,Taverner. We or should I say, the powers-that-be, have..

 

...turned the USA into that Cruel, stupid Bully that we hated in School.
We hurt people, just to hurt them.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #58)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:20 PM

60. Yep. And bullies here on DU are cheering the killing

 

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #58)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:20 PM

62. your view of how many countries view the U.S. is cartoonish.

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #62)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:06 PM

108. It's how this Australian sees the USA. (and I'm a citizen of both)

 

My European friends see the USA as "Churchy Dull Ants) They don't work like slaves 50-52 week per year. They have lives.
Americans are like people from Minnesota. They don't know any place different.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:19 PM

59. I guess

Empires fall, always. And when they do, nasty shit happens.

It is not a matter of if but when.

I think our genocidal government needs to come out of the closet as crypto-fascists. That includes all of the Feinstein DINOs, John Kerry Hypocrites and "hawks."

..."empires fall" just like stupid shit, huh?

"The empire is spending our kids' future"

Huh? Isn't this a RW talking point?

Oh, I forgot...





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Response to ProSense (Reply #59)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:22 PM

65. Also, if you come out of the closet as a cryptofascist

Does that mean you're coming out of the closet as something else?

Because if you're a cryptofascist and you come out of the closet, the "crypto" part goes away.

Of course, it sounds so much cooler to say "crypto," especially when, as in Taverner's case, you have
no idea what it means.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #59)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:23 PM

69. Ad hominem attacks...take a logic class bro

 

Oh yeah, it's YOU

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Response to Taverner (Reply #69)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:26 PM

73. LOL!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #73)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:27 PM

75. IT sure is funny when three year olds try an act like adults

 

But among us grown ups we use something called logic

Something you've never heard about

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Response to Taverner (Reply #75)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:28 PM

78. Is that why the OP makes no sense?

I mean, stringing a bunch of doomsday cliches together isn't "logic."

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Response to ProSense (Reply #78)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:30 PM

82. Dude, you really should let the adults talk

 






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Response to Taverner (Reply #82)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:32 PM

85. I'm not a "dude," and

repeating it doesn't make you an "adult."

In fact, the OP isn't screaming "adult" either.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #85)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:37 PM

93. The "adult" can no longer talk.

A jury didn't think he was being an adult.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #93)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:15 PM

115. that is the best point in an over the top thread like this

 

when the OP can no longer add to it but it still stays kicked.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #69)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:29 PM

80. Where did you take your logic class?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #80)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:43 PM

95. "Ron (and Rand) Paul are cryptofascists"

Ron (and Rand) Paul are cryptofascists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023859295

Who knew a word could be so broad to include "Ron (and Rand) Paul" and "Feinstein DINOs, John Kerry Hypocrites and 'hawks'"?





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Response to ProSense (Reply #95)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:47 PM

99. So... it was

Crypto Night School, and he went there because it sounded so cool.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:32 PM

86. hysterical nt

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:48 PM

100. If this is the end of the empire...

... then it's every man for himself.

I'm in.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:51 PM

102. Agree. We are currently the biggest mass murderers on the planet.

 

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:51 PM

103. We are certainly getting there at any rate. Thanks for the post, K&R

 

All the "Rah!" "Rah!" "Go USA!" types are not surprising either.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:08 PM

110. Hyperbole + negative nationalism + simplistic arguments. The trifecta.

 

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

George Orwell

Notes on Nationalism

Somewhere or other Byron makes use of the French word longeur, and remarks in passing that though in England we happen not to have the word, we have the thing in considerable profusion. In the same way, there is a habit of mind which is now so widespread that it affects our thinking on nearly every subject, but which has not yet been given a name. As the nearest existing equivalent I have chosen the word ‘nationalism’, but it will be seen in a moment that I am not using it in quite the ordinary sense, if only because the emotion I am speaking about does not always attach itself to what is called a nation — that is, a single race or a geographical area. It can attach itself to a church or a class, or it may work in a merely negative sense, against something or other and without the need for any positive object of loyalty.
.
.
.
It is also worth emphasising once again that nationalist feeling can be purely negative. There are, for example, Trotskyists who have become simply enemies of the U.S.S.R. without developing a corresponding loyalty to any other unit. When one grasps the implications of this, the nature of what I mean by nationalism becomes a good deal clearer. A nationalist is one who thinks solely, or mainly, in terms of competitive prestige. He may be a positive or a negative nationalist — that is, he may use his mental energy either in boosting or in denigrating — but at any rate his thoughts always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. He sees history, especially contemporary history, as the endless rise and decline of great power units, and every event that happens seems to him a demonstration that his own side is on the upgrade and some hated rival is on the downgrade. But finally, it is important not to confuse nationalism with mere worship of success. The nationalist does not go on the principle of simply ganging up with the strongest side. On the contrary, having picked his side, he persuades himself that it is the strongest, and is able to stick to his belief even when the facts are overwhelmingly against him. Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception. Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty, but he is also — since he is conscious of serving something bigger than himself — unshakeably certain of being in the right.
.
.
.
Negative Nationalism
[examples]
(i) Anglophobia. Within the intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the Axis powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Alamein, or the number of German planes shot down in the Battle of Britain. English left-wing intellectuals did not, of course, actually want the Germans or Japanese to win the war, but many of them could not help getting a certain kick out of seeing their own country humiliated, and wanted to feel that the final victory would be due to Russia, or perhaps America, and not to Britain. In foreign politics many intellectuals follow the principle that any faction backed by Britain must be in the wrong. As a result, ‘enlightened’ opinion is quite largely a mirror-image of Conservative policy. Anglophobia is always liable to reversal, hence that fairly common spectacle, the pacifist of one war who is a bellicist in the next.

.
.
.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #110)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:55 PM

125. Exactly. And from DU's Terms of Service

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #125)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:59 PM

143. Account status: Flagged for review

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Response to pintobean (Reply #143)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:51 AM

148. Interesting. Looks like 2 people had accounts flagged for review yesterday.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #148)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 07:03 AM

149. Did you see this thread last night

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Response to pintobean (Reply #149)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 07:09 AM

150. Nope. Geeze, what a mess. n/t

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Response to FSogol (Reply #150)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 07:11 AM

151. And there's this

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Response to pintobean (Reply #153)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 07:56 PM

154. Trumad survived being flagged for review. Wonder what

will happen to this angry crew?

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:15 PM

114. Executions on Monday Night Football ...

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Response to MindMover (Reply #114)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:07 PM

131. Yep...

 




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Response to MindMover (Reply #114)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:24 PM

135. And...

 

Now, to balance the scale, I'd like to talk about some things that bring us together, things that point out our similarities instead of our differences. 'Cause that's all you ever hear about in this country. It's our differences. That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about--the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money! Fairly simple thing. Happens to work. You know? Anything different--that's what they're gonna talk about--race, religion, ethnic and national background, jobs, income, education, social status, sexuality, anything they can do to keep us fighting with each other, so that they can keep going to the bank! You know how I define the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class. Keep 'em showing up at those jobs.

- George Carlin


Link: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Carlin


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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:06 PM

129. Here's a link to a very pertinent article

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:06 PM

130. Bush Family Evil Empire

The two "president" Bushes each lied America into war with Iraq. Poppy's daddy Sen. Prescott Bush had his eyes on Iraq's oil since the Shah was a pup and didn't much care for FDR, being named as one of the 1933 coup plotters. Their ancestors made big bucks off war. Smirko summed it up:

"Money trumps peace."

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:11 PM

133. What about the terrorists?

 

We "ARE" the terrorists!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:23 PM

134. Wow, that's original. n/t

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 08:37 PM

145. I like to smoke weed and listen to Rage Against The Machine too.

No, I really do. But I find that going off on crypto-Chomsky rants kills a good buzz and chases everyone else out of the room.

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Response to Throd (Reply #145)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:23 PM

158. anyone who uses "crypto-Chomsky rants"

goes on the list. (plonk)

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:27 PM

147. another end times prediction.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 07:19 AM

152. I'm afraid it's a just little more complicated than that

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:00 PM

155. You may be interested in which country provided the most aid, by far, to the 2004 tsunami victims.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:12 PM

156. I think the "power brokers" that run the US are the "evil" element, which makes us all look bad.

And many of those "power brokers" are outright sociopaths.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:50 PM

161. please share your chronic with me. nt

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