General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe'd be better off if Obama WAS a Marxist.
Let's leave discussions of electoral viability out of this. They aren't the point in this thread.
And obviously, he's not(and it was always silly for anybody to ever say that he was).
And let's be clear...I mean a Marxist, not a Marxist-Leninist(the term Stalin invented to turn his bloodsoaked perversion of Marx and Lenin's ideas-not that Lenin was a saint, but he wasn't THAT much of a psycho compared to "Uncle Joe" and his acolytes, although Lenin was to blame for giving Stalin the structural tools needed to carry out his plans)a Marxist being a person who agrees with Marx's original call for a genuinely socialist and genuinely DEMOCRATIC society.
If Obama WAS a Marxist, and had an actual legislative majority in place to carry out his program, we'd have
1)A fuil-employment economy:
2)A properly funded social welfare system for those who did end up needing help(especially children, the elderly, and the physically and mentally challenged)INCLUDING a universal public healthcare program
3)A foreign policy based on peace and reconciliation rather than "defending our 'national interests'" which are always simply the interests of the rich)
4)Democratic control of the means of production and democratic workplace management(with co-ops as part of the deal)
5)Access for all to the means of artistic creation and personal self-expression.
6)A media that actually reported the news, rather than simply acting as propagandists for the corporate order.
That's what we'd have if Obama was ACTUALLY a Marxist.
What's not to like?
(And, if he were actually a Muslim, at least we wouldn't have usury...)
Just thought it should be said.
JI7
(90,401 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I wasn't discussing how it would go with Obama having to face the Boehnerhaus.
stillcool
(32,695 posts)I would take advantage of executive orders, usurp Congress and pass my own laws. And then I'd be dead.
1000words
(7,051 posts)Not much of a beet fan. The copious amounts of vodka would be pretty sweet, though.
You could make borscht, but you'd be free to eat whatever ELSE you wanted.
Again, Marxism is NOT Marxist-Leninism, and it doesn't have to have anything at all to do with the Soviet Union.
1000words
(7,051 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)btw, you could make yourself some borscht right now. And they STILL eat it in Russia-even though the place is run by "White Russian" types now.
1000words
(7,051 posts)The Dude imbibes.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)With automation, simply speaking, a small minority of people can accomplish all the work that needs to be done. For example, in a few years there won't be human taxi drivers. Individuals perform tasks that occupied huge masses, and that power is growing exponentially.
Moreover, to create unnecessary tasks to employ people, will lead to destruction of resources that we, as a society, will need to preserve.
--imm
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Also, we could find a way to make sure that, if mundane tasks could be taken care of by machines or 'bots, that everyone would be paid to do work that was actually creative and fulfilling.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)A society organized with automation in mind, and with people's basic needs fulfilled, will not have to worry much about dreaming up busy-work for them.
The problem with work is it's destructive. And there won't be enough to go around. Although in some sense, we aren't too far apart either.
--imm
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If not work, than at least everybody would be given the chance to actually put their efforts into what they genuinely feel to be their own true purpose in life(something that never happened in any Marxist-Leninist society, btw, which is why what I'm saying here is nothing in common with any endorsement of the Soviet era).
The real point is, no one would be discarded and disrespected. No one would be considered valueless.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)I'm quite sure Marx would have nothing to do with Lenin.
--imm
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)When people on the right say "Marxism", they usually mean what the Stalinists got up to. I was trying to clarify the massive distinction.
If Marx had come back to life and showed up in Moscow during Stalin's era, Stalin would have had him shot.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)As it were...
--imm
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)(...well, depending how crazy he was that week...)
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)20 hours a week, we would. That would probably be the end result of full employment, 20 hours or so a week. And if you wanted to work more, I don't think there would be a problem with that.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)But we are in the same arena.
--imm
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)A lot of people want to work, want to have, if nothing else, somewhere to go each day and some purpose to fulfill. Few people, in my experience, really enjoy total idleness.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)But he's not - he's a Right leaning Centrist and corporatist
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)gopiscrap
(24,163 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)and the Marxist road not taken. His tendency he called Bolshevik-Leninist because it was based on the principles of the Bolshevik Party.
Thanks for the thread Ken.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)People should look their stories up, and read about what THEY stood for.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...considering you have no evidence from an actual political system to prove your claims.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)had to be confident that what hadn't been done before might be doable in the future.
"progressives" who don't believe that should just become conservatives and be done with it.
You defeat yourself when you assume that the future can only be a repeat of the past.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Marxist, it would take out the BIGGEST and most rabid anti-socialist force in the world for the last century of so. Which would actually ALLOW a socialist style system to develop normally and without being undermined 24/7, overtly and covertly, militarily and economically, by the capitalist bully boyz. I wonder what that would be like?
Initech
(101,732 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)for pissing off all the Right people!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Can you imagine his reaction if Obama really was a Marxist?
He would go from this;
To this;
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Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)he would've never gotten elected in the first place. Moderates are the majority in America, while self-proclaimed liberals barely make up 20% of the population.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And as far as that goes, a lot of people CALL themselves "moderates", but take positions on the issues that aren't moderate at all, but are, in many cases(such as the continued massive majority support for single-payer healthcare)quite liberal or even radical.
Americans use terms like "moderate", "centrist", or even "conservative" in some cases as short-hand for "common sense" or "practical", rather than as actual ideological markers.