General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerican gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene ?
Last week, Starbucks asked its American customers to please not bring their guns into the coffee shop. This is part of the company's concern about customer safety and follows a ban in the summer on smoking within 25 feet of a coffee shop entrance and an earlier ruling about scalding hot coffee. After the celebrated Liebeck v McDonald's case in 1994, involving a woman who suffered third-degree burns to her thighs, Starbucks complies with the Specialty Coffee Association of America's recommendation that drinks should be served at a maximum temperature of 82C.
Although it was brave of Howard Schultz, the company's chief executive, to go even this far in a country where people are better armed and only slightly less nervy than rebel fighters in Syria, we should note that dealing with the risks of scalding and secondary smoke came well before addressing the problem of people who go armed to buy a latte. There can be no weirder order of priorities on this planet.
That's America, we say, as news of the latest massacre breaks last week it was the slaughter of 12 people by Aaron Alexis at Washington DC's navy yard and move on. But what if we no longer thought of this as just a problem for America and, instead, viewed it as an international humanitarian crisis a quasi civil war, if you like, that calls for outside intervention? As citizens of the world, perhaps we should demand an end to the unimaginable suffering of victims and their families the maiming and killing of children just as America does in every new civil conflict around the globe.
The annual toll from firearms in the US is running at 32,000 deaths and climbing, even though the general crime rate is on a downward path (it is 40% lower than in 1980). If this perennial slaughter doesn't qualify for intercession by the UN and all relevant NGOs, it is hard to know what does.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/21/american-gun-out-control-porter
"One more figure. There have been fewer than 20 terror-related deaths on American soil since 9/11 and about 364,000 deaths caused by privately owned firearms. If any European nation had such a record and persisted in addressing only the first figure, while ignoring the second, you can bet your last pound that the State Department would be warning against travel to that country and no American would set foot in it without body armour."
cali
(114,904 posts)Perhaps the author is just trying to make some points and he does.
this is silly as well:
"...people are better armed and only slightly less nervy than rebel fighters in Syria"
I invite the author to Vermont where lots of people have guns, you don't even need a permit for concealed carry if you're over 16 and the greatest danger he'll face of being shot is wandering around in the woods without blaze orange during hunting season.
The gun problem in this country isn't just one problem- it's a web of problems. Starting with reasonable gun control is a start, but it's not the entire solution.
7962
(11,841 posts)The OP makes a trivial argument as many do. No one wants to look at that "web of problems" you mention. Its just the gun. Everyone is afraid to speak of the REAL problem, the PEOPLE who commit the crimes.
But I guess here on DU, you're just a "gun nut".
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)the "web of problems".
Igel
(35,300 posts)While we take a decade or two to "get the guns under control" millions of people are hurt by the "web of problems".
At the very least "let's do both." Otherwise you're saying, "While we do what I want, let adults and kids suffer. As long as we do what I want."
Then perhaps we can also deal with some of the peskier parts of the 1st and 4th amendments. Redefine terms, get outside help to supersede sovereignty, etc., etc.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)oh that's all, no biggie just some collateral damage done by duck hunters.
cali
(114,904 posts)no, it's not a biggie. I live here. In the 35 years I've lived here, I've never locked a house door. I've left my keys in my car hundreds of times while shopping.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)their chances in the woods. Im not a hunter myself so I wouldn't probably wear that thing you mention while in the woods. but it sounds like your version of woods is different than mine or rather mine different than yours. I would bet our woods are much smaller.
sounds nice where you are.
cali
(114,904 posts)accidentally and then killed himself several days later.
before that I think the last hunting accident fatality was 2005.
the woods here are beautiful, but it really is a good idea to wear some blaze orange if you're hiking during deer season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Kingdom
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)It's like that in every rural area during hunting season. Hunters are trained in classes before they get the permit for hunting, but regular forest walkers/hikers should always wear some blaze orange. And it's not just guns. I have encountered many hunters during Bow season. Same issue.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Vermont's largest city is a town of 40,000.
Connecticut has 4 million people. Vermont has 600,000.
And even when I was a kid in CT there was gun crime on a level unknown in Vermont.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)pam4water
(2,916 posts)intervene in Syria over chemical weapons, this guy is throwing back some of the USA's domestic problems. And Millard Fillmore was not the first president to have a bathtub!
Skittles
(153,150 posts)f*** them all
pintobean
(18,101 posts)with vulgar insults, as usual. Stay classy, Skittles.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)Coming next: parental guidance from Billy Ray Cyrus.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I learn something new about myself almost every day on DU.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)Decaffeinated
(556 posts)You can combine the two... but then it gets a little weird
Gun humper activist... kinda
Gun activist humper... depends what your wife is into I suppose...
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)All he needs is coffee with caffeine.
Igel
(35,300 posts)We can hear all the dog whistles you're blowing without noticing them, we can look past your false consciousness to see your true motives and how they correlate to your true interests.
One day you'll realize how much superior we are by comparison with you ... and find a danged good instance in daily life for using very large negative numbers.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)massacres are just to be expected but DON'T BE VULGAR!!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)and only divides. Can you show where a DUer actually said "massacres are just to be expected", or is that more divisive bs?
Skittles
(153,150 posts)that tells me they think everything is just FINE
BYE BYE NOW
pintobean
(18,101 posts)but you tried to insult other DUers. It says a lot about you and nothing about them. You obviously aren't paying attention, because I see most of them supporting changes.
It just doesn't meet your demands. All the shit slinging that takes place here isn't going to change anything. The sooner both sides realize that, the sooner we can have a discussion about measures that that will have some effect and be supported by most Americans.
Even if one doesn't doesn't believe in God, this can be very useful:
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Boring and predictable ... aside from being a danger to themselves and the community at large (insisting on opposing all legislation seeking to control guns and the nuts that love them)
Skittles
(153,150 posts)BIGGEST WUSSES ON THE PLANET
Initech
(100,063 posts)JI7
(89,247 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I certainly don't think the UN or anyone else would attempt "intervene," but the piece certainly does point out some of our absurdities in a pretty graphic way.
Regarding this one sacred cow of the Second Amendment, which almost no one today appreciates the historical underpinnings of, we are as a people illogical, contradictory, and quite willfully blind.
FUMCSDLCBDPOS
(41 posts)Now IMHO other countries have the right to intervene, USA Style, for what we did and are doing to their countries over the years. We regularly bomb the crap out of or destabilize some country for pretty much no reason, so that country has the right to bomb the crap out of or destabilize America in retaliation or get some pay back via some other method of their choosing.
Whats good for the goose
.
Don't like it? OK then America needs to stop being the worlds BULLY.
Perhaps an American anti bullying campaign is in order.
We have them for schools and on line why can't we have one for the nation?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I think I deciphered the rest of it.
Thanks in advance!
drynberg
(1,648 posts)Wouldn't you? Domestic, home-grown terror, y'know.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)I dont know why people that a pass.
They are as much of a killing machine as a Bushmaster.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)appropriate - Absolutely NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND - however if the U.S. agreed to an inspection process where the excessive weapons could be placed under international control - a diplomatic solution would be preferable and a military solution could be avoided provided a military solution remains on the table as an affective deterrence should it be necessary
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)I was waiting to see if this was the onion
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Except The Onion is intentionally funny...
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)malaise
(268,931 posts)from entering our borders wish someone would so something. Our governments are forced to have all sorts of American made security apparatus to protect the US while no one in the US gives a shit about the amount of US made weapons on our streets.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)The only thing better would have been to mention the UN.
LOL.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)qualifies as a cartoon.
ileus
(15,396 posts)"guns kill people" ???
Of course not, breaking them down fails their agenda...
drug and gang activity
criminal activity
suicides
domestic violence
rampage shootings
LEO induced
justifiable homicides by civilians
negligent shootings (accidents)
On a side note I'm sure the world could find a few areas/countries (with smaller populations) that warrant intervention before coming to America.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The author clearly has as much familiarity with causality as he does with what constitutes "civil war."
rl6214
(8,142 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)it is a NRA wet dream.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Just one example of the breathtaking inanity contained in that comedy-tier article...
flvegan
(64,407 posts)American gun use, that is.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Paladin
(28,252 posts)....for designating what constitutes an "NRA wet dream." Take the rest of the day off.....
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)If you want gun owners to rally around a strong, protectionist 2nd Amendment and the NRA, just have the international community "intervene".
Even you have to admit it would be a windfall for the NRA.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Paladin
(28,252 posts)....wipe off your fevered brow (and any other moist portions of your body), and understand that I don't need any of your guns. I've got plenty of my own, and somehow I still manage to support rigorous control of firearms.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Mercifully they are few in number. They post en masse, but when you look it is the same few over and over.
hack89
(39,171 posts)perhaps Doctors Without Borders could help.
That would take care of 60% of the gun deaths.
For the rest, perhaps the UN can declare war on the drug gangs.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Apparently, this person is unaware that many, many Americans visit Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.
Only body armor we take is sunscreen and bug repellent,
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)and not countries the US has abused in the past.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Also, is Russia considered part of Europe? Its murder rate is twice ours, and lots of Americans visit there.
I have been to Hondo in full battle rattle, but worst thing I had to deal with was burning shit... Somehow my recruiter neglected to tell me the details on field hygiene. To this day the smell of diesel makes me wanna puke.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)World average homicides per 100K citizens: 6.9
US: 4.8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Address the causes of suicide, prevent suicide, eliminate suicide.
Hell, if we did that the 1/3 of homicides that are murders and accidents would probably drop, too.
Shame that we're too focuses on getting rid of legal gun ownership and not on the root problems that cause the overwhelming number of deaths.
~~~
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)But that just does not fit the narrative.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to traffic them.
Canada does it right--you can own guns, but you have to register them. That way, if they get used in a crime, we know who to talk to.
Gun registry would cut down on gun violence here.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and only handguns and a few rifles have to be registered. It was lower before any of those laws were passed. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)......why don't we start the UN with the 100 countries or so with a higher murder rate 1st and see how it works out?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)care to elaborate?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)this place is atrocity central. Maybe that's the price of "freedom", but if the moral authority to call air strikes is about protecting the innocent, we need an intervention.
hack89
(39,171 posts)two thirds of gun deaths are suicides. How does that fit into your world view?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I'm not serious. That said, I find our supposed superiority ironic.
hack89
(39,171 posts)sorry.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)When asked whether violence such as suicide bombing is justified to defend Islam from its enemies, 5% of the Malaysian Muslims surveyed said it is often justified, 22% said sometimes justified, 12% said it is rarely justified, 58% said it is never justified, while 3% indicated that they did not know or refuse to answer.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/sideviews/article/extremism-in-the-name-of-islam-and-malaysian-muslims-joshua-woo
In the US less than 1% of gun owners use them in a crime. Here we have at least 5% of a group they choose to be in believing suicide bombing is ok.
Based on how anti-choice folks are on DU about guns I expect the following "Muslim humpers, Islamic nut jobs, etc" To appear on any thread which discusses or mentions people who make the choice to be a member of that group.
All muslims are now suspect and we should fear them (Can you IMAGINE if there was a mulsim person walking around your kids' school and praying? How many of you would be afraid and call the cops, even if the person did every day? I know most folks here would, just to be safe and secure).
We need more safety. Limits on religion, alcohol, more war on drugs (since drugs fuel stealing/shootings/etc) - so let's start with the 99% who obey the laws on guns and work them over (surely new feel good laws will stop crimes! Just think, slap out a new law and suddenly people will throw their guns and drugs down and hold hands. Even if not, you might 'feel' more safe, and feelings are important).
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)NickB79
(19,233 posts)In fact, it's dropped PRECIPITOUSLY: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/07/181998015/rate-of-u-s-gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says
At the same time, the US population climbed by 60 million people, and tens of millions of new guns (many of them tactical-style, ie AR and AK, rifles and handguns) were added to the few hundred million already in circulation.
The author has no fucking clue what he/she is writing about, frankly. We've cut our murder rate almost 50%, and our nonfatal firearms crimes by over 75% in 30 years. There's definitely more we could do to get it even lower, but to suggest that the US is in need of external intervention because of a "firearms epidemic" is insane.
pam4water
(2,916 posts)of our domestic problems.