Leaving behind $7 billion worth of equipment in Afghanistan.--what an F'ing waste.

[trumad]

KANDAHAR AIRFIELD, Afghanistan — Facing a tight withdrawal deadline and tough terrain, the U.S. military has destroyed more than 170 million pounds worth of vehicles and other military equipment as it rushes to wind down its role in the Afghanistan war by the end of 2014.

The massive disposal effort, which U.S. military officials call unprecedented, has unfolded largely out of sight amid an ongoing debate inside the Pentagon about what to do with the heaps of equipment that won’t be returning home. Military planners have determined that they will not ship back more than $7 billion worth of equipment — about 20 percent of what the U.S. military has in Afghanistan — because it is no longer needed or would be too costly to ship back home.

<snip>
The most contentious and closely watched part of the effort involves the disposal of Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, the hulking beige personnel carriers that the Pentagon raced to build starting in 2007 to counter the threat of roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan. The massive trucks, known as MRAPs, came to symbolize the bloody evolution of wars that were meant to be short conflicts but turned into quagmires.

The Pentagon has determined that it will no longer have use for about 12,300 of its 25,500 MRAPs scattered at bases worldwide, officials said. In Afghanistan, the military has labeled about 2,000 of its roughly 11,000 MRAPs “excess.” About 9,000 will be shipped to the United States and U.S. military bases in Kuwait and elsewhere, but the majority of the unwanted vehicles — which cost about $1 million each — will probably be shredded, officials said, because they are unlikely to find clients willing to come pick them up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/scrapping-equipment-key-to-afghan-drawdown/2013/06/19/9d435258-d83f-11e2-b418-9dfa095e125d_story.html?hpid=z3

[Scuba]

1. How many feel safer now than before we invaded?

[kenny blankenship]

37. What - No hands? None?

Nobody wants to voluntarily identify themselves as a fucking idiot?

That's not the DU I know! Why you can just turn the page and you'll see several people sticking their hands up for Syria.

[Octafish]

2. Money trumps peace.

Someone made a killing off those MRAPs and MREs and FOBs...

[trumad]

4. Bingo

[Octafish]

22. You know who privatized modern warfighting?

Cheney's Multi-Million Dollar Revolving Door

News: As Bush Sr.'s secretary of defense, Dick Cheney steered millions of dollars in government business to a private military contractor -- whose parent company just happened to give him a high-paying job after he left the government.

By Robert Bryce
Mother Jones
August 2, 2000

EXCERPT...

In 1992, the Pentagon, then under Cheney's direction, paid Texas-based Brown & Root Services $3.9 million to produce a classified report detailing how private companies -- like itself -- could help provide logistics for American troops in potential war zones around the world. BRS specializes in such work; from 1962 to 1972, for instance, the company worked in the former South Vietnam building roads, landing strips, harbors, and military bases. Later in 1992, the Pentagon gave the company an additional $5 million to update its report. That same year, BRS won a massive, five-year logistics contract from the US Army Corps of Engineers to work alongside American GIs in places like Zaire, Haiti, Somalia, Kosovo, the Balkans, and Saudi Arabia.

After Bill Clinton's election cost Cheney his government job, he wound up in 1995 as CEO of Halliburton Company, the Dallas-based oil services giant -- which just happens to own Brown & Root Services. Since then, Cheney has collected more than $10 million in salary and stock payments from the company. In addition, he is currently the company's largest individual shareholder, holding stock and options worth another $40 million. Those holdings have undoubtedly been made more valuable by the ever-more lucrative contracts BRS continues to score with the Pentagon.

Between 1992 and 1999, the Pentagon paid BRS more than $1.2 billion for its work in trouble spots around the globe. In May of 1999, the US Army Corps of Engineers re-enlisted the company's help in the Balkans, giving it a new five-year contract worth $731 million.

CONTINUED...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2000/08/cheneys-multi-million-dollar-revolving-door

PS: I know you know, Trumad. It's for those new to the subject.

[KG]

3. mean while, the city of detroit is have to sell off its museum.

Last edited Fri Sep 13, 2013, 08:55 AM - Edit history (1)

and it's not a coincidence.

[libdem4life]

26. and Philadelphia can't pay the teachers...well any state for that matter if one considers "pay" a

living wage. And we can't afford to feed our poor...it's a damn long list of can'ts.

[peace13]

5. They destroy and abandon equipment like they are the ones who paid for it.

Agencies that destroy public property without regard and then turn around and use more money to replace equipment are the problem here. At the same time a food stamp recipient is admonished for being hungry. Something is very wrong here.

[Skidmore]

6. May I ask a question?

Would you rather lose equipment or more lives? Would you rather extend the deployments or get the troops out of there? This is addressed to all the people who appear to be lining up to wail about equipment loss. I could care less. Let's get these people home in o e piece. Sometimes the cognitive dissonance on this boards is clanging so loud that people can't process.

[trumad]

7. Well---

Number one: The point is--- it was a worthless war with no accomplishment.

To see money waisted on this worthless war sickens me to death.

Of course I want them home....but can't I be sick at the unbelievable waste of money that this fucking war caused?

[HappyMe]

9. I found this --

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/03/05/the_army_will_leave_6_billion_worth_of_gear_in_afghanistan_hagel_s_first_foreign


I don't know anything about the source, i.e. good, or bad.

[Blanks]

19. If these vehicles cost $1,000,000 a piece...

And they are not worth transporting home (one assumes because they aren't worth anything), they aren't really destroying equipment 'worth' $7 billion, the money was wasted on the front end.

I think the real question here is: how do you destroy a piece of equipment that is mostly some kind of metal?

We just need to get past the fact that someone benefitted excessively financially (hopefully with a plan to prevent it from happening again) from these vehicles and equipment, but they should be in the recycle stream. Military equipment becomes obsolete. Who knows what kind of depreciation they use on these things (to come up with this $7 billion estimate), if they were using 'actual value', the amount wouldn't be worth nearly as much.

[HappyMe]

8. I agree.

Just get them out of there.

If I can get ahold of my husband's son, I am going to ask him the reason for leaving the equipment behind.

[Lee-Lee]

10. Most of it is very worn out

Roads there are bad beyond the ability of most Americans to comprehend, after 2-3 years of use most of the vehicles require a complete tear down and rebuild.

Couple that with the high cost of shipping them back, including a complete cleaning to almost showroom new clean for customs purposes ( I oversaw this there for a year) and you end up with a higher cost to send it back and then refurbish it than it is worth when you are done.

[HappyMe]

12. Thanks.

I kind of figured it may have something to do with the stuff being fubar.

[bhikkhu]

30. Yep. I knew people who worked on vehicle rehab during the first part of Iraq II

and I remember the amazingly long trains packed with beat-up and busted military rigs coming through town. Just the "drive to Baghdad" was enough to put down a huge number of rigs, and the cost of shipping them back across the planet, plus the cost of rebuilding them, was probably mostly wasted.

Its a huge waste, but the alternative is also a huge waste. Its certainly not about someone making piles of money at this point, but about not throwing good money after bad.

[Blue_Tires]

32. Of course in a bizarro world where the military didn't exist just to

enrich contractors and gave a shit about controlling its budget, there would be some kind of mandatory buyback clause for the contractor that the Pentagon could invoke for situations like this...(especially when they are charged a million fuckin' dollars per unit)...I'll assume the MRAPs are operational but very beaten up, so that buyback figure could be conservatively put at say, 25% of the original value??

I know $7 billion in waste isn't the end of the world, but I hate to see stories like this pass when a few days later teabaggers in congress scream about needing new ways to shave nickels off the USPS or some social service...

[bahrbearian]

11. That ain't so much . considering It was a Trillion Dollar War, Its the Lives and Waste that do me in.

I always said attacking Afghanistan was wrong.

[morningfog]

13. How much would it cost to just move it all to Syria? That would be bound to save us some money.

[Progressive dog]

14. Keeping unneeded and worn out equipment saves nothing,

in fact it increases costs, You have to transport it and store it even though you will never use it. The $7 billion is already spent.

[X_Digger]

16. It's the principle of 'sunk costs'.

I see it in IT all the time. Because a bank of servers cost X dollars, running an app that a company paid Y dollars to a third party to build, companies will limp along on outdated hardware and software that takes more to maintain than it would to replace.

[trumad]

17. Yep---

[oldhippie]

20. The concept of sunk costs is one of the hardest ......

.... concepts for most people to grasp. I have run into many people in the financial field, even with MBAs in Finance, that just cannot grasp it.

[X_Digger]

44. In their heads, they know it, but they just can't get it in their hearts. n/t

[MineralMan]

23. Yup. It's also called throwing good money after bad.

I had a car like that. At some point, you have to stand back, look at the thing, and decide whether it's worth fixing again. Usually, it's not, if you have to ask. Shipping a armored vehicle close to the end of its service life back to the US from Afghanistan is much the same thing.

It's done. Leave it.

[kelliekat44]

15. This happens all the time. We know this stuff up front. It's been going in every war we have been

involved in in other places. It's how the MIC survives and makes money. If the MIC could salvage everything that isn't destroyed in war they would never need to make more stuff. That's why they are always pushing conflict instead of negotiation and resolution.

[bhikkhu]

31. On the other hand, if it were worth anything the MIC could sell it

to another country, as has happened in the past with surplus equipment. I think they are basically saying this stuff isn't worth selling.

[KoKo]

52. They could recycle it...and sell it off as scrap? Might give some jobs

to the folks we've been there to Democratize. Let Pakistan and Afghanistan use it for something else....even ship it to China. The already get most of our recyled mentals as scrap to reuse in the manufactured stuff they send back to us.

Only problem is if any of the waste is radioactive...which has been a problem with China sending products here...like Cheese graters and Can openers and stuff that is sold at Crate & Barrel and had to be sent back...but customs inspectors say it's sent back but returns again in another shipment.

[NCTraveler]

18. Just to put it into context.

I believe that comes out to 1,272,727,273 healthy meals through Meals on Wheels. 1,750,000,000 sandwich or breakfast meals, still healthy.

Pricing info:
https://feedmore.org/meals-on-wheels/meals-on-wheels-services/cost-of-meals/

Menu:
https://feedmore.org/images/uploads/sample-main-menu_8-14-13.pdf

[hughee99]

40. I wonder how many more meals it would cost to ship them back

and refurbish or dispose of them.

[NCTraveler]

41. Not sure how much it would cost.

With Obama and Bush thinking that war in Afghanistan is paramount to our national security, it is clear cost of this war is not a concern of theirs.

[Lurks Often]

21. So you want to spend even more ship it back?

Everything either has to be flown out by air or shipped through Pakistan and Pakistan charges us for what is shipped through their country. Much of it is worn out or nearing the end of it's service life.

Why throw spend more money to bring back worn out equipment that will never be used again?

[Scurrilous]

24. "The ashtrays are full. Scrap 'em and build another."

[n2doc]

25. Another end to another failed war

I guess we will never learn

[Blue_Tires]

29. Hurts my eyes to see...

If I had a time machine I would have gone back to adopt that little Bell helo....

[Blue_Tires]

27. You all are missing the good news from the story:

Some contractor gets to double their profits by selling the military brand new MRAPs to replace the ones they "lost"

[bluesbassman]

47. Bingo! Except the new MRAPS will cost $1,250,00 instead of $1,000,000...

Gotta account for inflation ya know.

[tammywammy]

53. MRAP is being replaced with JLTV.

Production of the MRAP has already stopped and JLTV is supposed to go into production in 2015. The military is already testing the prototype JLTVs delivered to them by the three contractors in competition.

[neverforget]

28. why keep worn out equipment when you can

buy brand new stuff? The MIC gets paid again and the military gets new stuff to play with in our next war adventure.

[Amonester]

39. And the workers who get weekly paychecks, pay income tax, and purchase groceries

to manufacture the brand new stuff the military gets to play with do keep their steady jobs, pay their mortgage, make their payments in time, feed their kids, and pets.

What else is new?

[Jesus Malverde]

33. wow..nt

[truebrit71]

34. Wait...NOW they're worried about the "cost"???

Surely it would have cost just as much to ship it there as it would to ship it back....??

[kenny blankenship]

35. I'm sure that's a pittance compared with the gear that's been worn out or blown up

and already had to be replaced.

[HooptieWagon]

36. The US burned the PT boats at end of WW2.

They were worn out, and would cost more than they were worth to ship back home, where they would just deteriorate as junk.
http://www.ptboats.org/20-11-05-fate-001.html

I suspect much the same for Afghanistan equipment. It probably costs more to ship it home than what it can be sold for. Yes, war is very wasteful.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

38. Ever heard of "sunk cost"?

As someone else in the thread pointed out, the waste was on the front end with decisions made years ago about building these hulks.

When making financial decisions about scrapping, salvaging, etc. One has to look at relative worth of vehicles in current state and analyze that against cost of transport, etc.

[Hutzpa]

42. Hence the beating of the drums to start another war.

so they can continue to waste tax payers money.

[Sunlei]

43. they gave those Afghan police we 'trained' several billion more in stuff. I hate that use of OUR $$

But the war profiteer corps LOVE it because they get a nice cut of our Federal billions to gear-up some other countries cowboys.

people like Cheney sitting on a couple billion of Americas money.

[mick063]

45. "Crunch all you want. We will make more"

This is by design. This keeps the military contractors in business. This type of policy is lobbied for.

Tanks and planes are like Doritos.

[Carolina]

46. So in addition

to the cost (to us taxpayers) of purchasing that equipment and shipping it over there, we are now just leaving it to litter the landscape.

Death, destruction, pollution and waste... we're #1, rah, rah

[Initech]

48. For the MIC, they don't care who or what gets destroyed as long as they make that $$$$.

[Rex]

49. We cannot fart without the IRS asking if it was us

YET our illustrious MIC gets to waste billions and billions of dollars with no penalty for such waste. Then again, the MIC was created for defense contractors and the revolving door for CEOs. They seem to be the TOP sources of waste and incompetence.

[kentuck]

50. Destroy this stuff...

and don't pay for flu shots, Headstart, or Meals on Wheels. Real bright!

[leveymg]

51. $2 billion dollars worth of trucks going to the shredder. But, they're closing school libraries.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

54. My high school biology teacher was in Saigon to the bitter end,

And while waiting for his flight home he was sent from office building to office building to smash brand new IBM typewriters, some still in their boxes and other office equipment with a fire axe.

[indepat]

55. This piddling $7 billion can be made up with further cuts in the social safety net

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. Yay! Another glorious victory by our best funded military..who will now ask for more money.

[bluedeathray]

57. The equipment is just the beginning.

Counting the value of construction projects that have been funded, are underway, and will be completed and then handed over to the Afghanis, we could have rebuilt Detroit at least 3 times over.

Quality facilities with modern conveniences. Brought to them by the American taxpayer.

[gopiscrap]

58. Business fuckers love this