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Sat Aug 31, 2013, 06:21 AM

Obama's Quagmire

bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:16 AM
Original message

Welcome to the new NATO quagmire

The minute Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told the Anatolia news agency, "The coalition that was formed following the Paris meeting will abandon the mission and hand it over entirely to a single command system under NATO", the issue was settled.

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is about to enter the era of the double quagmire - as in Central Asia (Afghanistan) and northern Africa (Libya). And everyone thought NATO was supposed to be defending Europe from the commies. Libya now is an official victim of the endless war club.

This predictable coup de theater (see Endgame: Divide, Rule and roll with the oil Asia Times Online, March 25) does not alter the fact Odyssey Dawn remains an American war. Well, not a war, according to the White House, but a "time-limited, scope-limited military action".

For the moment it's a time-limited etc conducted by General Carter Ham, out of his Africom headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany (none among 53 African countries wanted Africom). Next week it will become a time-limited etc conducted by US Admiral James Stavridis, NATO's top military commander.


41. Welcome to Quagmire Libya.

Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 06:45 AM by Nossida

I watched an interview with Secretary General of NATO Mr Rasmussen
earlier this evening. The interviewer asked him if the objective of
NATO in Libya is Regime Change. No direct answer, except to say No
Qaddafi isn't a Target. I suppose that is the reason NATO bombed his
Compound and killed a Son and 2 Grandchildren. With billions invested
in Intel NATO knew exactly who was in the Compound when it was Hit.
Many see no problem with the killing of Qaddafi's Grandchildren. A
shining example of 'Humanitarian Intervention'.

Its a well known fact the 'Freedom Fighters' were financed, and armed,
by NATO, before any demonstrations even began in Libya. From Day 1.
Google it for yourself.

American Banks joke about ripping off Qaddafi's Libyan Fund openly in
the Western Media. This Humanitarian Intervention is another War for
Resources, and nothing else. Plus Qaddafi wanted to drop the US dollar
and institute a Gold Dinar.

Now the combined Air Power of England, France, Italy, and the US have
failed to bring Qaddafi down
, and they are screaming for help. Sounds
rather a Sticky Wicket.

bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message

11. I'm with you.

If the Pro-WAR people could point to a single Military Intervention in the Middle East that has ended well,
I might be willing to listen.
This one will not end well either.

Now that we have started killing Libyans, how do we stop?
What is the exit strategy?

(That should be the FIRST question asked & answered before even beginning to talk about another war.
You would think we might have learned something since 1964, but we haven't.)

The marketing being used to SELL our involvement in ANOTHER war
is the exact same marketing "they" used to sell the last WAR.

Does anyone seriously believe we will be OUT of Libya before Campaign 2012 begins?
After the "New War Smell" wears off this, and we face the realities of WHO we are supporting,
how many we kill, and how much it costs,
it will be a hard for Obama & The Democrats to sell this NEW Quagmire to America.

No specific Military Objective + No exit Strategy = Quagmire


one_voice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:05 PM
Original message

Rep. Dennis Kucinich: Defund Libya attack

Liberal Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich plans to offer up a measure that would defund U.S. efforts in Libya.

According to a letter blasted to his email list, Kucinich plans to offer an amendment to the next spending bill to ensure no federal funds go to the bombing campaign in Libya.

The amendment would give Congress a more concrete opportunity than they’ve had to challenge President Barack Obama on Libya, a subject that has riled both sides of the aisle.

In the letter Kucinich addressed to his fellow lawmakers, the Ohio Democrat said Obama scooted around the Constitution, “which gives only Congress the power to declare war.” He also says the no-fly zone will cost between $400 and 800 million.

“We have already spent trillions of dollars on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which descended into unwinnable quagmires,” Kucinich wrote in his letter. “Now, the president is plunging the United States into yet another war we cannot afford. While the administration assures us that that the U.S. will hand-off its lead role to coalition partners within days, we have not been notified of long-term plans or goals following initial air strikes in the country. The timeline the president gave to Congress was summarized with one word: ‘limited.’”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51736.html#ix...


alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-11 03:21 PM
Original message

Libyan bombing alone will not budge Gaddafi, UK officials warn

Source: The Guardian

Almost three months into the campaign of air strikes, Britain and its Nato allies no longer believe bombing alone will end the conflict in Libya, well-placed government officials have told the Guardian.

Instead, they are pinning their hopes on the defection of Muammar Gaddafi's closest aides, or the Libyan leader's agreement to flee the country.

"No one is envisaging a military victory," said one senior official who echoed Tuesday's warnings by Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope, head of the navy, that the bombing cannot continue much beyond the summer.

Stanhope, whose comments caused fury in Downing Street, was expressing publicly what many senior defence officials say in private, officials made clear.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/14/libyan-bomb...


Nossida Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 10:29 AM
Response to Original message

9. NO US Troops

Then by all means England and France,
send your own Troops into Libya. The
US is quite busy with Afghanistan,
Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq, etc, etc, etc.
That French Midget Sarkozy is no where
to be found. This so called Humanitarian
Intervention was the brainchild of the
French, and the Brits. Let them send in
Troops, because if you had not noticed
Qaddafi has gone no where, and this
farce has become a Quagmire. Obama said,
"Days Not Weeks".

No US Troops for this French Colonial War.
Do it yourself, midget.


L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message

8. And, they said a few days is all it would take. LIARS as usual.


Why the US must not intervene in Libya - Democratic Underground

Intervention in Libya has all the makings of another Middle East quagmire. The
urge to intervene there, however, is not driven solely by factors ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az...all... - Similar
NATO ends Libya mission

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- More than seven months after the U.N. Security Council authorized NATO forces to protect demonstrators in Libya, the aerial bombing campaign operation that helped depose longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi ended here Monday at midnight.
"I think what has happened in Libya sends a very clear signal to autocratic regimes all over the world," NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told reporters earlier in the day after arriving in Tripoli from Brussels, Belgium.

"We have been mandated by the United Nations Security Council to protect civilians and that mission has been a great success," he told CNN during the flight. "We have prevented a massacre. We have saved countless lives. We have fully implemented the United Nations mandate. That was our mission and we have done what we promised to do."

Remarks by the President on the Death of Muammar Qaddafi
Rose Garden
2:07 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everybody. Today, the government of Libya announced the death of Muammar Qaddafi. This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya, who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya.

For four decades, the Qaddafi regime ruled the Libyan people with an iron fist. Basic human rights were denied. Innocent civilians were detained, beaten and killed. And Libya’s wealth was squandered. The enormous potential of the Libyan people was held back, and terror was used as a political weapon.

Today, we can definitively say that the Qaddafi regime has come to an end. The last major regime strongholds have fallen. The new government is consolidating the control over the country. And one of the world’s longest-serving dictators is no more.

One year ago, the notion of a free Libya seemed impossible. But then the Libyan people rose up and demanded their rights. And when Qaddafi and his forces started going city to city, town by town, to brutalize men, women and children, the world refused to stand idly by.

Faced with the potential of mass atrocities -- and a call for help from the Libyan people -- the United States and our friends and allies stopped Qaddafi’s forces in their tracks. A coalition that included the United States, NATO and Arab nations persevered through the summer to protect Libyan civilians. And meanwhile, the courageous Libyan people fought for their own future and broke the back of the regime.

So this is a momentous day in the history of Libya. The dark shadow of tyranny has been lifted. And with this enormous promise, the Libyan people now have a great responsibility -- to build an inclusive and tolerant and democratic Libya that stands as the ultimate rebuke to Qaddafi’s dictatorship. We look forward to the announcement of the country’s liberation, the quick formation of an interim government, and a stable transition to Libya’s first free and fair elections. And we call on our Libyan friends to continue to work with the international community to secure dangerous materials, and to respect the human rights of all Libyans –- including those who have been detained.

We’re under no illusions -- Libya will travel a long and winding road to full democracy. There will be difficult days ahead. But the United States, together with the international community, is committed to the Libyan people. You have won your revolution. And now, we will be a partner as you forge a future that provides dignity, freedom and opportunity.

For the region, today’s events prove once more that the rule of an iron fist inevitably comes to an end. Across the Arab world, citizens have stood up to claim their rights. Youth are delivering a powerful rebuke to dictatorship. And those leaders who try to deny their human dignity will not succeed.

For us here in the United States, we are reminded today of all those Americans that we lost at the hands of Qaddafi’s terror. Their families and friends are in our thoughts and in our prayers. We recall their bright smiles, their extraordinary lives, and their tragic deaths. We know that nothing can close the wound of their loss, but we stand together as one nation by their side.

For nearly eight months, many Americans have provided extraordinary service in support of our efforts to protect the Libyan people, and to provide them with a chance to determine their own destiny. Our skilled diplomats have helped to lead an unprecedented global response. Our brave pilots have flown in Libya’s skies, our sailors have provided support off Libya’s shores, and our leadership at NATO has helped guide our coalition. Without putting a single U.S. service member on the ground, we achieved our objectives, and our NATO mission will soon come to an end.

This comes at a time when we see the strength of American leadership across the world. We’ve taken out al Qaeda leaders, and we’ve put them on the path to defeat. We’re winding down the war in Iraq and have begun a transition in Afghanistan. And now, working in Libya with friends and allies, we’ve demonstrated what collective action can achieve in the 21st century.

Of course, above all, today belongs to the people of Libya. This is a moment for them to remember all those who suffered and were lost under Qaddafi, and look forward to the promise of a new day. And I know the American people wish the people of Libya the very best in what will be a challenging but hopeful days, weeks, months and years ahead.

Thank you, very much.

2:12 P.M. EDT

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arely staircase Aug 2013 OP
dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #1
kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #2

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Aug 31, 2013, 07:18 AM

1. NATO is an anachronism which should've been put to sleep years ago.


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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Aug 31, 2013, 07:20 AM

2. See my post on the solution. nt


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