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Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:53 PM

Senator Obama, 12-20-2007..."The President does NOT have the authority..."

[font size=3]"The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.” [/font]---Senator Obama, 12-20-2007



Clear?

71 replies, 6928 views

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Reply Senator Obama, 12-20-2007..."The President does NOT have the authority..." (Original post)
bvar22 Aug 2013 OP
Dreamer Tatum Aug 2013 #1
cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #4
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #8
leftyohiolib Aug 2013 #14
AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #20
Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #2
global1 Aug 2013 #3
snappyturtle Aug 2013 #15
jberryhill Aug 2013 #56
n2doc Aug 2013 #5
City Lights Aug 2013 #6
KoKo Aug 2013 #7
tsuki Aug 2013 #12
KoKo Aug 2013 #24
Progressive dog Aug 2013 #9
snappyturtle Aug 2013 #16
leftstreet Aug 2013 #10
Divernan Aug 2013 #22
bvar22 Aug 2013 #23
jsr Aug 2013 #58
kath Aug 2013 #11
hamsterjill Aug 2013 #13
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #17
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #18
morningfog Aug 2013 #38
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #40
morningfog Aug 2013 #42
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #43
morningfog Aug 2013 #47
morningfog Aug 2013 #57
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #60
Seeking Serenity Aug 2013 #61
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #67
morningfog Aug 2013 #62
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #65
morningfog Aug 2013 #71
treestar Aug 2013 #63
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #69
DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #66
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #68
PoliticAverse Aug 2013 #19
Maedhros Aug 2013 #21
99Forever Aug 2013 #25
leeroysphitz Aug 2013 #26
MuseRider Aug 2013 #27
HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #28
WillyT Aug 2013 #29
rhett o rick Aug 2013 #30
Doctor_J Aug 2013 #31
RandiFan1290 Aug 2013 #32
Little Star Aug 2013 #33
The Straight Story Aug 2013 #34
joshcryer Aug 2013 #35
The Straight Story Aug 2013 #36
joshcryer Aug 2013 #37
The Straight Story Aug 2013 #41
joshcryer Aug 2013 #50
The Straight Story Aug 2013 #51
joshcryer Aug 2013 #52
rug Aug 2013 #39
nashville_brook Aug 2013 #46
Motown_Johnny Aug 2013 #44
Octafish Aug 2013 #45
Rex Aug 2013 #48
bvar22 Aug 2013 #49
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #53
budkin Aug 2013 #54
Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #55
Seeking Serenity Aug 2013 #59
bvar22 Aug 2013 #64
Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #70

Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:55 PM

1. Maybe his Nobel came with a couple of Free War coupons. nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:08 PM

4. Ouch!

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:28 PM

8. ...

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:05 PM

14. i think potus should give that back

 

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:48 PM

20. Goddamnit I shouldn't be laughing as much as I have been reading these threads...

I guess gallows humor brings out the best in me.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:55 PM

2. Crystal

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:07 PM

3. Maybe The President's Strategy Is To Go To Congress For The Authorization.....

and you know - everything he is for - the Repugs are against. So knowing that - they won't authorize a strike and then anything that happens henceforth would be blamed on the Repugs in Congress. (sarcasm)

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Response to global1 (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:18 PM

15. Congress is on vacation. Haven't heard any call for an

emergency session.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:32 PM

56. Haven't seen the president launch a strike either

 

He's still busy cutting social security.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:12 PM

5. Maybe that too has been erased from the official record

And of course, in the age of Terror(tm) EVERYTHING is an imminent threat to the USA.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:13 PM

6. Haha, that was then, this is now! nt

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:21 PM

7. His New Responsibilities weigh heavily on his head...

And...what can he do with Dick Cheney dogging him on the Sunday Shows every time a country in the ME has unrest because a Western Friendly Dictator causes the people there to rise up? To make sure he got the message on Syria, I read that Colin Powell was thrown in on this past Sunday's Show to verify Cheney's view, just for good measure.

What can he do? What can he do.....sigh. It's out of his hands now that he's President. A Senator has so much more power that a President.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 03:34 PM

12. With only 9% of the nation wanting war, you'd think he's listen to

something other than the Sunday Pun-Twits.

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Response to tsuki (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 06:46 PM

24. Rational People would think that! But, we haven't lived in

"Rational Times"....since...

Well...I can't remember..

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 03:01 PM

9. In answer to this question

. In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites -- a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)

President Obama has yet to bomb Iran, unless I missed it.

Just for accuracy, this is the rest of Senator Obama's reply.
As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.

As for the specific question about bombing suspected nuclear sites, I recently introduced S.J. Res. 23, which states in part that “any offensive military action taken by the United States against Iran must be explicitly authorized by Congress.” The recent NIE tells us that Iran in 2003 halted its effort to design a nuclear weapon. While this does not mean that Iran is no longer a threat to the United States or its allies, it does give us time to conduct aggressive and principled personal diplomacy aimed at preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

16. How is what the President seems bent on doing in defense of the U.S.? nt

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 03:03 PM

10. That's back when he was a Constitutional Scholar

DURec

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 05:20 PM

22. He was NEVER a constitutional SCHOLAR, never published a scholarly paper, wasn't on tenure track.

He was a "senior lecturer" - that's the lowest level of teacher at a law school, below Full, Assistant, Associate, Adjunct and or Visiting Professors - at University of Chicago. They are not on a tenure track. He never taught the basic, traditional course in Constitutional Law, required of all first year law students, and covered in detail in state bar examinations. He taught three courses:

At the school, Mr. Obama taught three courses, ascending to senior lecturer. His most traditional course was in the narrow constitutional area of (1) DUE PROCESS AND EQUAL PROTECTION of constitutional law. His (2) VOTING RIGHTS class traced the evolution of election law, from the disenfranchisement of blacks to contemporary debates over districting and campaign finance. His most original course, a historical and political seminar as much as a legal one, was on (3)RACISM AND LAW.


Nor could his views be gleaned from scholarship; Mr. Obama has never published any.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us/politics/30law.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Very interesting article on his years as a part-time instructor at the University of Chicago Law School. He was a popular teacher, but refused to intellectually engage with his fellow faculty. One sentence particularly sticks with me as showing that even at the beginning of his political career, he identified his future success and power as dependent upon wealthy whites.

Before he helped redraw his own State Senate district, making it whiter and wealthier, he taught districting as a racially fraught study in how power is secured.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 05:46 PM

23. Thank You for the History.

Filed away for future reference.

I would like to know a little more about his Community Organizing too.
So much of it now seems like a smokescreen,
and even grooming for a run at the White House

Even though I found him to be charismatic and inspiring at the 2004 Democratic Convention, I always wondered how a little known State Senator with NO record at all, landed such a coveted speaking spot so high on the Prime Time Democratic Party Convention schedule.
Politicians will KILL for that kind of PRIME Time National Exposure!

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Response to Divernan (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 11:07 PM

58. +1984

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 03:28 PM

11. How dare you compare CANDIDATE Obama to President Obama!

The nerve!!

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Response to kath (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:04 PM

13. Exactly!

I just heard a blip of John King (CNN) saying that "running for President is very different than being President".

Politics as usual. Say what they want to hear to get elected; then do what you want when you are.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:21 PM

17. Kicked and Recommended! nt

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:25 PM

18. What about the Syrian situation would be him unilaterally authorizing a military attack?

Because that's not what I'm seeing discussed anywhere.

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:24 AM

38. Lack of congressional authorization or a UN mandate.

 

I doubt he can even get a NATO resolution.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:27 AM

40. But they are seeking a UN resolution.

http://descrier.co.uk/world/2013/08/syria-uk-propose-un-security-council-resolution/

The UK is to propose a UN Security Council resolution today which would authorise "necessary measures to protect civilians" in Syria.


You were saying?

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #40)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:33 AM

42. Get back to me after it passes.

 

Seeking a resolution is good. But, getting one that authorizes force is necessary.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #42)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:35 AM

43. *beep beep beep* Goalposts coming through.... n/t

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 02:55 PM

47. Not in the least.

 

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 11:03 PM

57. Here you go:

 

Earlier, Washington bluntly signaled that a UN Security Council resolution proposed by Britain that could have given a legal basis for an assault was going nowhere, owing to Russian opposition.

“We see no avenue forward, given continued Russian opposition to any meaningful Council action on Syria,” State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf said.

“We cannot be held up in responding by Russia’s continued intransigence at the United Nations, and quite frankly the situation is so serious that it demands a response,” Harf said.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/international/obama-not-ready-to-order-syria-strike-but-gives-up-on-un/


I said get back to me because I knew there was no way in hell anything was coming from the UN Security Council.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #57)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 12:27 AM

60. But this isn't still acting unilaterally.

Even if it's just the UK and the USA, it's not unilateral. Words mean things. So take your sad little trump card and put it back in the deck.

Acting unilaterally is the point of this OP, morningfog. It's quoting Senator Obama's words as if to say that President Obama's being hypocritical. But that isn't what's happening here - even if the UN proposal comes to nothing, there is still no action unilaterally. Congress is being consulted. There are other partners involved in any proposed action. And when I point this out, you move the goalposts.

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #60)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:18 AM

61. No, "unilaterally" in this context means

the executive acting on his own authority without the approval or consent of Congress.

In 2007, then-Sen. Joe Biden thought a president using military force (or as he said, "taking us in to war" was an impeachable offense. See Post #59

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #60)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:50 AM

62. No, without the UN, it is an illegal war.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #62)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:14 PM

65. Bullshit. n/t

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #65)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 05:51 PM

71. Unless it is in response to an actual attack on the US or NATO,

 

without UN sanction is most certainly an illegal war. You saying "bullshit" is worth everything else you say and doesn't change the international law.

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #60)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:52 AM

63. They just want President Obama to be in the wrong

The only real goal.

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Response to treestar (Reply #63)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:22 PM

69. You'd think they could deal with what's actually happening

instead of making crap up, though. It would give their arguments more weight.

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #40)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:17 PM

66. I've got $5K that says Russia vetoes.

 

You were saying?

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #66)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:20 PM

68. Even so, the UK was presenting the proposal.

So it's still not unilateral.

Please proceed.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:41 PM

19. He didn't get congressional approval to attack Libya in March 2011...

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 04:48 PM

21. Yes, but Obama has stretched the concept of "imminence" to cover just about anything

 

or anyone that he wants to blow up:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo

But this rhetorical tactic is totally misleading. The memo is authorizing assassinations against citizens in circumstances far beyond this understanding of "imminence". Indeed, the memo expressly states that it is inventing "a broader concept of imminence" than is typically used in domestic law. Specifically, the president's assassination power "does not require that the US have clear evidence that a specific attack . . . will take place in the immediate future". The US routinely assassinates its targets not when they are engaged in or plotting attacks but when they are at home, with family members, riding in a car, at work, at funerals, rescuing other drone victims, etc.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 06:52 PM

25. I often wonder where the body of ...

... that Barack Obama is hidden. Seems that about the only thing that guy had in common with the Prez, is a name and physical appearance.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 06:53 PM

26. I'll bet the president changes his mind on that one... n/t

 

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 06:57 PM

27. He said that?

Well of course he said that. He has said many things that are 100% different than the way he has and is governing.

Thanks bvar, I have been reading, you have been doing some great posting.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 07:08 PM

28. I kind of liked that Senator Obama guy...

 

...whatever happened to him?

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 07:10 PM

29. Good Question...

 


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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 09:52 PM

30. The Powers To Be sat him down and told him what was what. nm

 

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 07:51 AM

31. the pre-2009 Obama was a completely different person than the post-2008 one

 

The current Obama is indistinguishable from the Republicans.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 07:59 AM

32. Now watch this drive!

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:03 AM

33. Rachel Maddow had a segment on this last night....

The clip starts off slow. The good part starts at the 7:00 mark.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#52861022

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:03 AM

34. He has already spoken with congress and we are talking to the UN on it

So I don't think he is planning on doing it unilaterally.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #34)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:06 AM

35. without UN it would be a war crime

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:16 AM

36. Maybe not:

R2P - Responsibility to Protect

If it comes to action, albeit limited, the British, French and Americans are likely to fall back on a number of arguments to legitimise the use of force.

Among them are the breaking of the Geneva Conventions, various treaties reacting to chemical weapons which date all the way back to 1925, and a concept known as R2P - Responsibility to Protect.

In 1999 US President Bill Clinton justified the bombing of Serbia on the ground of the moral responsibility protect large numbers of civilians.

He assembled the Nato countries to give "international cover" on what was a US-led operation.

In 2005, the UN adopted R2P as an "international norm" but there is fierce debate about whether it can be invoked without a UN Security Council resolution.

http://news.sky.com/story/1133677/syrian-crisis-morality-of-war-and-jungle-law

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #36)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:20 AM

37. sovereignity

r2p can be invoked if all parties agree otherwise you need UN

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:30 AM

41. From the Air Force general counsel blog:

Syria & International Law

With increasing speculation about a possible U.S. action against Syria, along with a consensus that Russia would block any U.N. Security Council authorization for such an action, speculation has begun as to possible legal justifications for a U.S. action in the absence of U.N. authorization. Last night, Elise Abbott of CNN summarized this as follows:

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, in Indonesia Monday, said “if there is any action taken, it will be in concert with the international community and within the framework of legal justification.”

The United States is examining a variety of potential legal justifications for any type of military action. While three United Nations Security Council resolutions have failed to pass because of Russian veto power, officials say some in the administration believe it may be worth it to make the effort. But with Moscow already promising to declare any military intervention illegal, the United States and its allies would likely have to act without a U.N. mandate.

Officials have pointed to the 1999 conflict in Kosovo as a precedent, where President Bill Clinton used NATO backing and the “responsibility to protect” (R2P) as a legal basis for airstrikes without a U.N. mandate. Adopted by the United Nations, including Russia, as an international norm in 2005, the R2P seeks to justify outside intervention in a country’s internal affairs, if that state had failed to protect its population from atrocities.

Given that the use of chemical weapons is considered a crime against humanity and banned by the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention, the R2P could be applied to Syria, although its legitimacy in the absence of a U.N. mandate is debatable.

Meanwhile, Professor Julian Ku wrote this piece about some takes on the legality of a potential action from the UK, France, and Russia.

http://afgeneralcounsel.dodlive.mil/2013/08/27/syria-international-law/

There is precedence. I would not be surprised if they will use it since Russia will veto anything we put forth.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #41)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:01 PM

50. But limited airstrikes won't protect civilians.

They will result in the Syrian government going all out to destroy the anti-government threat, meaning that any civilians that support the anti-government threat will be massacred. And guess who gets the blame? Obama / the US.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #50)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:03 PM

51. So let him use chemical weapons or he will kill more people if we stop him

Obviously we are not dealing with a rational 'leader'.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #51)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:06 PM

52. He needs a pretext.

He can't kill massive numbers without the world looking elsewhere. Elsewhere will be the smoldering "orphanages" that the US is bound to be hitting.

Otherwise he has to keep the slow slog going, the back and forth, the "pew pew." This slow civil war is killing his regime slowly but surely, ala Algiers. He can't afford for it to go on for many more years. Better to end it with as much brutal force as possible. And he simply can't do that without the world saying something.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:27 AM

39. I wish that guy was elected.

 

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Response to rug (Reply #39)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 09:46 AM

46. +10000000

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:45 AM

44. True, the authority comes from the War Powers Resolution.

 

The Constitution does not directly grant him that authority. It is granted to the Congress, which in turn granted the authority to The President, within certain limitations.



http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1541

^snip^



(b) Congressional legislative power under necessary and proper clause

Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer hereof.


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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:51 AM

45. Well, that was just campaign rhetoric, you know, a slogan, a saying, a meme...

...once elected, he doesn't have to do anything he promised, you know, like Republicans say about "exit strategy" and "nation building." Just words. And commas. Ha ha.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 02:56 PM

48. As clear as the regulars that are avoiding this thread.

 

nt.

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Response to Rex (Reply #48)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 04:45 PM

49. That is pretty clear too.

Its easier to ignore this than it is to argue with the Man Himself,
though I was curious as to how this would be twisted and tortured by someone insisting that Obama did not mean what he said.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:06 PM

53. Key word...Unilateral...

 

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:16 PM

54. Not the same person

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:18 PM

55. knr

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 11:59 PM

59. Sen. Joe Biden, on Hardball in 2007

Stating that if the President of the United States took us to war without congressional approval, it would be an impeachable offense.

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Response to Seeking Serenity (Reply #59)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 11:41 AM

64. Thank You!

Adding to my library of clips.

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