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Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:27 PM

IF YOU BELIEVE UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT CHECK IN!

With the news of UPS cutting 15K folks from their health insurance plan, once again it hits me just how backward this nation is when it comes to health care. medicine and medical treatment should NEVER be a for profit endeavor. Once we decide to have our priorities correct in this issue, you will see a great reduction in bankruptcies and destitution. One should never have to choose between health, housing and or food!

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Reply IF YOU BELIEVE UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT CHECK IN! (Original post)
gopiscrap Aug 2013 OP
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #1
gopiscrap Aug 2013 #2
WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2013 #66
immoderate Aug 2013 #3
Bunnahabhain Aug 2013 #7
immoderate Aug 2013 #13
Safetykitten Aug 2013 #33
Omnith Aug 2013 #121
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pnwmom Aug 2013 #27
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gopiscrap Aug 2013 #181
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #182

Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:29 PM

1. absolutely. Single payer health care, free education for all, and living wages!!!!

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:31 PM

2. You and I are on the same page!

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:43 PM

66. Seems like the United Nations agrees with you.

Read the Universal declaration of Human Rights. Article 22 - 26

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

Now I know why right wingers hate the UN.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:32 PM

3. Well, that would be a feature of "civilization."

 

It remains to be seen whether living in civilization is a "right." It would be nice though.

--imm

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Response to immoderate (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:37 PM

7. This is so close to my position

 

I'm not a big fan of deeming this and that a "right." What I am a huge fan of is thinking about the type of civilization I want to live in and that I want my kids to live in. Universal healthcare would seem to me to be a prerequisite for the type of civilization I want to live in. It's like when people talk about taxes. I'm happy to pay my taxes as taxes are the cost of living in civilization...and I'm happy to be civilized.

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Response to Bunnahabhain (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:29 PM

13. Yep. The issue is mostly rhetorical.

 

If something is designated as a "right," it's a disconnect to have it withheld. "Rights" as such, are always difficult to deal with, because they have to be insured by a third party -- and what do you do if the right is determined, and the outside party can't or won't provide it?

Some friends that I talk politics with have consciously avoided speaking about rights, deeming the notion meaningless. You and I needn't go that far, as long as we know the limitations.

--imm

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Response to immoderate (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:22 PM

33. Yes, quite rhetorical. Nothing like a person dying for care that brings out the deep thoughts.

 

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Response to immoderate (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:32 AM

121. Agreed

Should we care for each other, absolutely. But, rights should not require force.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:36 PM

4. single payer is the moral and sensible thing to do so don't hold your breath

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:37 PM

5. Checking in. n/t

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:37 PM

6. Absolutely. It would be nice to live in a civilized society.

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:41 PM

8. Self-evidently it currently *isn't* a right in the USA at present, but I think it probably should be


The declaration of independence, while inspirational-sounding, is wrong - there are no such things as inalienable rights; it is only possible to meaningfully talk about rights in the context of a source, usually a body of law.

At present, Americans do not have any kind of right to state-funded free-at-point-of-use health care.

It would probably be a good thing if they did, for two reasons - firstly, first world countries where the state pays for health care seem to get comparable outcomes for a much lower fraction of their GDP, and secondly, the burden of paying for health care is more equitably distributed in such countries.

But the fact that it would be a good thing if Americans had a right to state funded free-at-point-of-use health care does not mean that there is any sense in which they currently do.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:41 PM

9. I don't think it's a right, but I do think enlightened societies should provide that

 

being treated for injury or illness is a right, and that is why hospital ER's should not turn away a patient who is in need of medical care.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:13 PM

25. And people ask what I am doing on a Democratic board.

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:32 PM

35. We have a right to life. Health care is essential to our right to life.

So yes. I think we have a right to health care. We just have to figure out how to pay for single payer.

The ER care is a band-aid.

And it is expensive.

Getting an elderly woman to physical therapy BEFORE SHE FALLS could save Medicare so much money and a lot of grandchildren would have their grandmother much longer. In this time when women are working so long, that simple thing -- physical therapy before a fall -- would save so much.

Also, people in their 40s and 50s need regular check-ups. High blood pressure sometimes starts to show up during those years. So does diabetes and so do a lot of other problems. In the long run, money can be saved and health improved with preventive care early on when people need it.

Free preventive health care for all people of all ages is an investment our country should be making.

Most important is making sure all mothers have really good prenatal care when pregnant. That should include some group psychological counseling on how to care for the new baby. When I was young, girls learned how to care for a very small baby from their mothers and friends and from babysitting. That is not the case for many women today.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:37 PM

37. Nice post.

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:53 PM

10. It's part of the five national security concerns...

1. Health care
2. Energy
3. Education
4. The environment
5. Defense

...and shouldn't be left in private hands.

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Response to KansDem (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:22 PM

62. +1 and K&R n/t

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Response to KansDem (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:46 PM

165. Absolutely! This, too, is Homeland Security.

Consider: just how secure do YOU feel with the knowledge that you could lose the very roof over your head because of ONE illness or injury. How secure would YOU feel, knowing that everything you've worked for could be so easily wiped out - especially as you age and cycle out of the work force? (That's of course, assuming that you have a decent job to begin with - which a LOT of people don't have!) To me, that's a LOT more terrifying than any terrorist attack. A TRULY safe and secure population is one where the most essential needs for survival are taken care of. It has nothing to do with your freedom-freedoms - to gouge others in the marketplace, to act like an asshole, to be rude, to be greedy, to insist on your right to be a pig. Around our house, we sneer at the CONs and teabagger types who insist on a blanket freedom that basically boils down to their freedom to be a pig (of course, with apologies to the four-legged kind everywhere). We derisively call it their "freedom-freedoms." I think it came from a video clip from "The Newsroom" where the smug, pompous, doltish, wrong-winger ass seated onstage who's asked what the two best things about America are (or something like that) - and he says "freedom. And freedom (yuck-yuck-yuck)!"

Health care should be a public utility - a NOT-FOR-PROFIT essential. The damn profit motive should be taken out COMPLETELY. Seems just completely wrong, to me, to look at another person's suffering or illness as simply another way to make money.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:54 PM

11. I think it's the best policy and something we should shoot for. nt

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:59 PM

12. Count me in! If people are provided a lawyer if you can't afford one,

People should certainly be provided health care and public education (not vouchers)!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:43 PM

14. Checking in.

Medicare for all!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:58 PM

15. K&R

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:59 PM

16. It's the only approach that can be called a solution

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:01 PM

17. K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:02 PM

18. Plan E--get the bloodsuckers out: just patients, providers, and Medicare, the way everyone likes it

especially Republicans (it's just that they're not self-aware)

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:06 PM

19. Absolutely yes...

...HR676 would do it, Medicare for all.

K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:07 PM

20. Checking in. nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:08 PM

21. true

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:11 PM

22. A perfect right? No.

You could make an argument for it being an imperfect right. You could make a better argument for it being a derived right.

The best argument would be as a customary right. But that would require drawing precedents from other countries, as it is clearly not a customary right in the USA. Better to rephrase the question, in that case: Should Universal Single Payer Health Care be a customary right?

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:31 AM

158. I agree with your position.

In a world where such a thing(Health Care and the means to provide it) did not exist or ceased to exist and thus could not be provided declaring it a right does not do very much.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:12 PM

23. We had a big grocery strike in California a few years ago over health care....

 

All the union wanted was to keep what they had.

Health Care should be a non-issue in the richest country in the world.

BTW: As long as our government policy is to promote Capitalism than our government will be run by Wall Street.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:12 PM

24. ME!

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:14 PM

26. I don't think it's a "right" but it's certainly the right thing to do.

 

As I keep telling my few "conservative" friends... Not everything needs to be done for profit.
Healthcare, prisons, things like that.
This country has gone completely insane, and the disaster profiteers have taken over the place.
However, I don't think it will last much longer, as things are.
There will be a revolution soon enough, and chances are it will get MUCH worse after the people are crushed by the disaster-profiteering class.

I hope I'm wrong about that...

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:15 PM

27. Unfortunately, it's not a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

Maybe it needs to be amended, though it would probably easier to pass a single payer bill -- someday.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:15 PM

28. Some of the replies here are HILARIOUS! Well, when you think about it...uh...in a classical sense...

 

when in though about in a world where apes drove cars.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:16 PM

29. I just don't believe it will ever happen. The greed is to entrenched in the for profit health

"care" industry.

Sickening.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:16 PM

30. I'm not sure it's a right

 

but it's the most efficient and most equitable way for a society to pay for healthcare.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:21 PM

31. Yep. We need to get away...

From employer based, private insurance run health care.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:22 PM

32. Yes, it's a Right, except to Right Wingers.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:24 PM

34. Yes. And the UPS decision brings us closer to a national consensus that we need single payer

insurance with the money taken directly out of our paychecks.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:24 AM

157. The more businesses that drop health insurance, the more people will recognize the universal need.nm

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:32 PM

36. We're either a "first-world" country or not, which is it?

That's what I'd like to ask all the assholes in Congress - the assholes who enjoy great health care and still vote against it for the people.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:40 PM

38. Maybe not a "right" but a feature of a "first world" nation. The USA is not a first world nation.

I think a universal single payer health plan would cause a mass exodus of workers from the Dilbert world of stagnant corporations into innovative small businesses that would improve the lives of everyone.

This frightens the giant corporations. Employees who now stay on because they fear losing health benefits would leave and become direct competitors.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:42 PM

39. K&R

 

Should be a right for everyone, as in all those other countries less backwards than we are.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:52 PM

40. Yup

Consider me checked in.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:54 PM

41. Checking in

100% !

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:54 PM

42. check

As I said when the ACA passed Congress, I think it will have to be revisited sooner rather than later.

This is why.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:58 PM

43. Of course it's a right.

But the corporate cartels that run Suckmerica will never allow it to happen, and the useful idiots OF the corporate cartels carry their water with much subservient love.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 04:59 PM

44. checking in n/t

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:00 PM

45. I should be, but there are no "rights" unless you win them and can keep them. nt

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:01 PM

46. Check.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:04 PM

47. Rec #69.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:04 PM

48. Our Constitution allows Single Payer, Universal Health Care.

 

Preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America:
We The People "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Section 8.
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and PROVIDE FOR THE common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;..."

Twice in our Constitution it mentions "general welfare" What constitutes 'General Welfare'?
The old-age benefits provisions of the Social Security Act of 1935 is an example of providing for the 'general welfare'. Medicaid/Medicare are 2 more examples of providing for the 'general welfare'.
Government controlled, Single Payer, Universal health care for the people of the United States IS covered by the Constitution, because the relative health of our citizens does affect the general welfare of the Nation. 45,000 dead people a year are proof the profit driven, privately run systems we have in place now are not working to provide the necessary health care for our nation.
How can our present private health insurance system, with its many insurance companies (each with its own way of doing things), its own highly paid management, its own attention to the bottom line for its share holders, its own claims requirements, its own forms for submitting claims, each trying to maximize profits, etc., be more efficient than any government controlled single Payer system, with its single set of rules and forms?

Every other industrialized nation has a form of Universal Health Care. None of those other countries want to go back to what they had before. And for sure, absolutely none of them want what we have now for health care in this country.
So why is it so hard to go with the most obvious, the most humane course of action, which is what every other industrialized nation on the planet has already done? Single Payer, Universal Health Care. The hard work has already been done by these countries. All we have to do is cherry pick what works. What is so hard about that?
The United States pays twice as much for health care than any other country. See chart below
And yet 45,000 people a year are still dying for lack of access to basic health care. People are losing their homes, going deep into debt, going bankrupt for basic health care.

[center]How can we be the Greatest nation on earth,
if we can't/won't even take care of our own citizens?
[/center]

How is it the same people that do not have a problem with however many wars we are engaged in at the moment, that are costing us, US, $16.5 trillion so far, have a problem with health care reform that will save us billions?

Health care in other countries is a social service. Here in the United States, it's big business. Your money or your life. No money? Die and get out of the way for someone with money.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:05 PM

49. K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:05 PM

50. DURec Profit OUT of healthcare !!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:09 PM

51. Yes

I see red when I see some health care company CEO making 15 million a year, why? Only in the US (at least among industrialized nations).

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:09 PM

52. Count me in

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:10 PM

53. check in...kick....rec....

and tomatoes!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:14 PM

54. K & R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:16 PM

55. Medicare for everyone

Obamacare should have been Medicare for everyone.

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Response to fjlovato (Reply #55)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:22 PM

61. That would have been one hell of a legacy

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Response to fjlovato (Reply #55)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:18 AM

150. Yes!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:18 PM

56. k&r

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:21 PM

57. still should be our goal, yes

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:21 PM

58. Not really a human "right" but it should def be a national priority.

Healthcare is what taxes are supposed to pay for. What else is there, if your society can't take of its own citizens health and well being? The USA can afford it.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:21 PM

59. K&R

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:21 PM

60. Here here! n/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:24 PM

63. agreed

 

I dont want Obama care, I want medicare. Why should we fund Obama care, lets fund medicare. The corporations will just send in a thousand lawyers to pick Obama care apart.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:24 PM

64. Checking in

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:28 PM

65. if health care reform were serious, insurance at least would have been converted to non-profit

so you'd get people at the top more concerned about delivering care than withholding it to goose profits.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #65)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:55 PM

80. Very important point.

Of course, Rahm Emanuel and Liz Fowler had to have legislation passed that would further their interests.

While Obama, circa summer 2009, pretended that "Our Constitution dictates that there be a strict separation of power, so that I cannot even comment on the health reform efforts until congress finishes voting on the matter." Yada Yada Yada.

I am glad so many here on DU can see the same guys behind the curtain that I see.



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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:53 PM

67. It would be far cheaper and more efficient,

But it would cut into insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry and health care services industry profits.

Funny how TPTB didn't mind sending whole manufacturing segments overseas, but they will protect these health care related industries to their death.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 06:36 PM

68. K&R for civilizing the USA.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 06:43 PM

69. YES! YES!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:06 PM

70. If we can't afford to educate our children, to heal our sick or care for our elderly ...

 

... just what is it the defense budget is defending?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #70)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:05 PM

84. Excellent

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:07 PM

71. Checking in.

I believe National Health Care, funded by taxes and free at point of service, is a right.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:19 PM

72. Health care and having good health is a right that everyone in this country must have,

regardless of their social status. Nothing degrades the human spirit worse than poor health.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:19 PM

73. Yes.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:41 PM

74. I think health care should be a right, regardless of how it is paid for.


Single-payer refers to the payment method.

It would be good compared to what we have now.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:48 PM

75. Why this is just a ploy to find common ground in GD



Checking in.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:49 PM

76. That's the way it's supposed to work...

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:54 PM

77. Me. nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:54 PM

78. Lived and worked in Canada.

Single payer rocks.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:55 PM

79. yep!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:56 PM

81. Best Solution All Around

eom

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 07:56 PM

82. Absolutely count me in.

I'be been saying it for 30 years now.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:00 PM

83. No brainer K&R n/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:09 PM

85. K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:11 PM

86. K&R!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:18 PM

87. Universal health care is a right. Single payer insurance is one of many ways to achieve it.

Don't mistake the means for the end here.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #87)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:38 AM

155. Exactly. Whether you use single payer or a national health service like in the UK or

some other mechanism, the goal should be universal health care.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:19 PM

88. Here!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:29 PM

89. Remove the age restriction from Medicare -

folks pay premiums, sliding scale based on income.

Small businesses won't have to worry about providing insurance. It won't matter if someone wants to work part-time - they'll still have health care.

It's way past time to do this.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:32 PM

90. This will only happen state by state

If you want single payer, get your state legislature to pass it, and be prepared to defend it from the insurance bloodsuckers.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:32 PM

91. As my wife says: WITHOUT our health how the HELL do we Pursuit Life Liberty and Happiness?

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:33 PM

92. I don't get why people don't see this.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:40 PM

93. We cannot continue to call ourselves a "civilised" nation...

...as long as health care remains a commodity to be bought and sold.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:53 PM

94. A "Right" with conditions.

 

I would prefer that if we got UHCare that we should increase the sin taxes on alcohol and cigs and have sin taxes on junk foods as well. This would help pay for the program and aqlso reduce consumption of these killers which is one reason the US has an epidemic of diabetes and obeisty related chronic diseases like heart disease and cancer etc.
Canada's alcohol tax is twice as high as ours and they use it to pay for their Universal Health care system.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #94)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:37 PM

162. Agreed, but...

Living in a border city, there are a LOT of businesses here that cater to Canadians...selling them Canadian cigarettes and booze at U.S. prices, without the taxes that go to fund their national health care.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:00 PM

95. ABSOLUTELY

A human right!!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:01 PM

96. Hellz yeah!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:02 PM

97. K & R

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:04 PM

98. Always have - K&R n/t

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:20 PM

99. This is a no-brainer....checking in.



Things will continue to get worse, and there will be more people without health insurance, not less, unless we fix the whole system. We have to get the for-profit insurance companies out of the mix.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:28 PM

100. I pay $8,200 per year just for insurance and no treatment

 

Treatment starts after the next $750. One year in my whole life (51 years) I have had more than that.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:30 PM

101. Not just the right thing to do, it's the right way to do it.

Obamacare=RENT EXTRACTION, not health care.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:41 PM

102. K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:41 PM

103. Yup.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:49 PM

104. And much cheaper for society

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:51 PM

105. Yes!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:32 PM

106. Check, where do we sign up? n/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:43 PM

107. Truth

 

I travel the world for my job; and the insanity that our health care system is truly evident. The "conservatives" small business chant is undermined by the lack of entrepreneurship due to the costs of health care. If you are lucky enough to have health care for your family why jeopardize it trying to chase a dream that may create more jobs? Also, US companies must budget the cost of health care into their products and try to compete with countries that don't have that expenditure.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:45 PM

108. Yes, it's hight time we join the rest

of the civilized world...

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:46 PM

109. it's a right.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:53 PM

110. Absolutely. N/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:25 PM

111. You mean like in real grown-up countries?

Sure it should be. But here where republicans (and their new-democrat friends) are trying to move America to third world status, it ain't gonna happen.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:28 PM

112. I absolutely agree

I live in South Korea and anyone interested should take a look at how insurance is handled here. We pay a premium that is fixed (5.8% I believe) if we are employed and if we are unemployed it depends on the circumstance, but I pay $70 a month which is still not bad (they take into account I own a car and a house). I can go to any clinic or hospital and pay a copay depending on what I have done. When I had a really bad allergic reaction (my face swelled up so bad I looked like a fucking balloon) a couple of months ago I had to go to the emergency room (it was a holiday). I was there for two hours and got a CT. In the end I was treated with what essentially is Benadryl and was there for two hours. It cost me $90.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:44 PM

113. K & R n/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:18 AM

114. I agree.

But I got jumped in the UPS thread when I dared to say so. What is happening to DU?

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:19 AM

115. I have and love it.

Canadians do not have to stay at a job to get the basic health care. ALL canadians get this, those who work, kids, seniors. We pay through our taxes and our employers pay through taxes. Many employers have the extra benefits of prescription, visual, audio , therapy and dental. Seniors pay $100. Annual for prescriptions.
We are in better health because we have annual check ups and go see the doctor at the first sign of not feeling well. That often prevents things from getting worse.

The system works. My 25 year old son was always healthy until one day at work he had seizures. 3 days later he was getting a brain operation. One of the 3 he would get for his glioblastma multiform brain tumour. 2 months later his 53 year old dad found a lump that turned out to be non - Hodgkin's lymphoma. They both had chemo, radiation, therapist and palliative care in the hospital. . Our son was in intensive care unit for 4 weeks. There were no medical bills. Just parking at the hospital. They died, but nothing was denied. And I got $2300 for each of their funeral costs. No bankruptcy. Unheard of up here.

harper will be voted out because he wants to privatize our health care. Won't happen.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:28 AM

116. I'M IN .. So how are we going to make this happen. Medicare does not pay for every cost.

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:29 AM

117. Here, here! 100% agreed. nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:39 AM

118. Medicare for all!

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:44 AM

119. Medicare part E, for Everyone!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:17 AM

120. Hell ya......

and a great way to save this budget.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:51 AM

122. Checking in. Getting sick of it at this point. nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:53 AM

123. K&R

I wish this had been done as soon as it became clear that the Rs were not going to work with us on health-care, (or any issue for that matter).

Since the POTUS and Dems in Congress have been getting all kinds of grief for Obamacare, in hindsight, they might just as well have gone all the way to pass Single Payer. Provided that there were enough votes for it (obviously).

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:14 AM

124. +1

As mentioned upthread, health care is an implied right in the constitution under "general welfare".

Our govt. is too stupid to see the long term goal, in that if it keeps us alive with health care, and keeps us from going bankrupt in trying to pay for it, then more of us will be alive to pay our taxes toward the only thing govt. cares about -- wars of choice. The US is a dying empire. Nevermind health care is a civilized and humane thing to do.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:53 AM

125. knr

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:25 AM

126. K&R

Hopefully the RepubliKlan is right for once and Obamacare/Romneycare is just the first step towards a "socialist" single-payer system.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:30 AM

127. I don't believe in rights,

but I do think the term is good for rhetorical reasons. Saying something is a right is a persuasive act, and can be very effective.

I very much support the concept of universal, single-payer health care.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #127)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:51 AM

142. Just wondering here...

...why do you not believe in rights?

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #142)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:26 PM

170. Rights are first imagined,

then communicated to others, and then either believed or rejected by the majority of people in an area. We don't prove that people have a right to this or that, we only convinced others that the rights exist. New rights are an act of persuasion, as opposed to an act of discovery.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #170)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:27 PM

171. Ya know.....

 

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Response to Safetykitten (Reply #171)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:29 PM

172. Your reply made me smile in confusion.

What are you trying to communicate?

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #170)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:54 PM

173. Please forgive my earlier less than clear reply.

I trying to find out if your objection to "rights" is a semantic one. AFAIK (have inferred) from your replies in thread, you favor single payer but oppose calling it a "right". I'm trying to understand why. Please elaborate.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #173)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:03 PM

175. I very much support a single-payer system.

I think rights are good as a persuasive device, but I don't believe rights exist outside of our imagination. I believe that anything that exists solely within our imagination is strictly imaginary, such as the world of Harry Potter.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #175)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:19 PM

178. Thank you

I don't want to hijack this thread but I have a sincere interest in pursuing this discussion. If you would be interested in such an exchange, perhaps we could begin this in the Philosophy group or maybe the Civil Liberties group.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)



Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:09 AM

130. Ditto

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:20 AM

131. checkin in

yes

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:23 AM

132. yes it's a right ! nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:59 AM

133. knr

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:22 AM

134. FWIW, yes. n/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:05 AM

135. I hope I live to see the day!

I really do.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:22 AM

136. Indeed!

kick for creating universal healthcare in the USA, and preserving it in the UK

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:36 AM

137. K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:38 AM

138. Yes. nt

 

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:50 AM

139. I'm not sure about it being a right, but it's certainly a good idea!

A healthy population is a national strength.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:22 AM

140. Checking in. k&r

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:27 AM

141. Informed our health insurance premiums going up 22%

The insurance agent for our company's Blue Cross plan just informed us that our premiums for next year would be going up another 22%. Soon, the majority of my paycheck will be going for health insurance. National one-payer NOW!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:54 AM

143. Single payer, absolutely.

rec...

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:00 AM

144. I just don't understand how we don't have at least 95% of Americans for universal health care?

Even fairly well to do families have to worry about health care. Makes no sense to me, they are already paying for the health care of others, why not make it better and more cost effective?

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:05 AM

145. checking in

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:17 AM

146. Good thing we all voted for a POTUS who at least supports a Public Option!

 

Oh wait....

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:47 AM

147. Hell yeah. n/t

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:14 AM

148. YES

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:14 AM

149. Single payer, the only way to go

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:19 AM

151. Checking in!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:22 AM

152. I believe....

 

I believe healthcare is a right. That doesn't necessarily mean single-payer, but everyone who has done any serious work on the matter will tell you single payer has the best chance of controlling costs.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:29 AM

153. K & R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:30 AM

154. Checking in!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:12 AM

156. Yes! Count me in.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:33 AM

159. Whether or not it's a right

it's the sort of thing a decent society would afford. A culture, people, or nation is known by how it treats its most vulnerable.

We're not doing very well in that regard.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:07 PM

160. check, check, check. k&r

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:10 PM

161. agreed

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:38 PM

163. Damn Ayn Rand permeates the political thought

Her "virtue of selfishness" is one thing that blocks true UHC.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:46 PM

164. It not only is a right

But anyone opposing it should be ostracized, made a pariah, hopefully audited byt the IRS every year of the rest of their life, and, ideally disenfranchised, deported and their name stricken from all records.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:55 PM

166. Giddeyup!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:55 PM

167. Checking In!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:00 PM

168. Checking in! nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:17 PM

169. UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE IS the only way our country survives the next 50 years

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #169)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:15 PM

177. Agree.

 

K&R

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:57 PM

174. Double kicked and recommended.........nt

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:14 PM

176. So many hard working people I know will now be able to afford

health care for the first time thanks to Obamacare (Affordable Health Care).....tens of millions of white Americans as well as people of color will now have health insurance.

Cheers to Obamacare - It's a start- hopefully to universal health care for ALL Americans (as every other country have for their citizens except for the poorest nations) health care is a right. As we see in every civilized nation in the world except the US simply because the the fucking slimy lying greedy selfish compassion-less corporate republicans.....

And do expect the republicans to sabotage Obamacare anyway they can, and in many different ways to point their ugly republican finger and say 'see Obamacare doesn't work" as they continue to sabotage it!!

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:07 PM

179. Not a right but it is right

Single payer makes too much sense so I don't expect it to be implemented anytime soon. Probably the best scenario is that it is enacted in a forward-thinking state. Vermont is the closest. Once it works then it will spread. ObamaCare might actually speed things along.

The obstacle are the insurance lobbies. Obviously single-payer would seriously impact their business models. In other words, much of the inefficiency would get squeezed out of the system. Private insurance can still have a place in a single-payer world but the gravy train would be derailed.

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:48 PM

180. America the only country where guns saves lives and Health Care kills.

Universal health care is a fundamental human right and not a product that can be exploited for billions in profits.

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Response to Chisox08 (Reply #180)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 06:25 PM

181. Exactly

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Response to gopiscrap (Original post)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 06:30 PM

182. Kick for a civilized society where 'national security' actually means protecting American lives

rather than killing people all over the world making us less safe.

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