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Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:44 AM

Kerry Was Right, Egypt Was NOT a Coup, Instead it Was a Paid Hit By the Gulf Kingdoms



Follow the money... the Saudis and Emiratis despised the Brotherhood:

Saudi Arabia pledged $5 billion in grants and loans to Egypt's new government on Tuesday, a second major promise of aid from the Gulf after the ouster of the country's Islamist president.

Earlier, the United Arab Emirates pledged $3 billion to the cash-strapped country. Saudi Arabia and the UAE are leading critics of deposed President Mohammed Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/09/saudi-arabia-aid-to-egypt_n_3568635.html


The US was never going to support a Brotherhood Gov. over its 'allies' in the region.

The generals in Egypt were paid to destroy the Brotherhood and are doing such a good job, they will probably end up with a Civil War on their hands.

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Reply Kerry Was Right, Egypt Was NOT a Coup, Instead it Was a Paid Hit By the Gulf Kingdoms (Original post)
JCMach1 Aug 2013 OP
hobbit709 Aug 2013 #1
Scootaloo Aug 2013 #2
JCMach1 Aug 2013 #4
Scootaloo Aug 2013 #5
MADem Aug 2013 #3
JCMach1 Aug 2013 #6
MADem Aug 2013 #9
cali Aug 2013 #8
MADem Aug 2013 #10
cali Aug 2013 #13
MADem Aug 2013 #20
cali Aug 2013 #7
dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #11
JCMach1 Aug 2013 #21
malaise Aug 2013 #12
cali Aug 2013 #14
malaise Aug 2013 #15
cali Aug 2013 #17
bemildred Aug 2013 #18
malaise Aug 2013 #19
bemildred Aug 2013 #16

Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:45 AM

1. As always "Cui bono"

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Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:47 AM

2. No reason it can't be both

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:52 AM

4. Added the sarcasm icon...

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:54 AM

5. Sorry. My snark circuits are fried on this story.

 

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Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 08:50 AM

3. The Brotherhood is a hate group, wrapped in religious fervor.

This is not a secret.

When Mursi was elected, I predicted trouble. I wasn't wrong.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:04 AM

6. more like IRANlite, doesn't matter though as the GCC bullies found them an existential threat...

and they had the money to

'take care of the LITTLE problem'


(well the Sunni version of IRANlite anyway)

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:22 AM

9. They really are a hate group, and they have been so for decades.

Ironically, since they hate the Shi'a probably more than they hate the Copts and uppity women who dare to want equal rights from all strata of society, it would be lovely to just lock them in a room with the Persian Guardian Council and their crew, and they could tear each other to shreds.

They do have something in common with the Persians, though--they play the "bread and circuses" game with the very, very poor, who are on the edge of desperation, some of them, and since social services are lacking, the downtrodden pledge allegiance to ensure their survival. The most loyal and fervent acolytes move up in the organization and recruit others to it. It's like the Salvation Army giving people food in exchange for attendance at a prayer service--but on steroids. Hizb'allah did this in a big way in Lebanon, as well, and of course, the ulema did this from the git-go with the baseej in Iran.

When the ideologues in Iran and Egypt, who wield influence that exceeds their actual numerical strength, step to the side, the conversations become sane, rational and productive.

The Brethren in Egypt and ulema in Iran foment more than their share of hatred and violence--they need to sit down and shut up, because they aren't helping and their ideas are unwelcome to anyone save bitter, frightened, angry and threatened people who have the same "I got mine, you don't deserve yours" attitude that the Tea Partiers display.

Of course, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. This ain't gonna happen on my say-so, that's for sure! The Brethren aren't going to be convinced by words--they've had a taste of power, and they want more, even though the people don't want them.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:16 AM

8. That's simplistic- at best

 

I predicted mass slaughter by the vile Al-Sissi and the military. That's worse. I was right.

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:29 AM

10. No it's not. They hate Copts, Shi'as, Jews, uppity women,

Sufis, any faith that isn't their brand of reactionary Islam, and they don't believe in compromise. It's their way, or the highway.

They are not typical of Muslims -- they are ultra-zealots, fundies, living by the literal word of the Qur'an, and they want to drag Egypt, kicking and screaming, back to the 14th Century. The people of Egypt, quite sensibly, don't want to head in that direction, and who can blame them?

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Response to MADem (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:34 AM

13. Yes it is.

 

Why does the MB have such a large following? Try extreme poverty for one thing. And btw, not all those protesting are members of the MB by a long shot.

And YOU are wrong. There are multiple reports out today that there was a deal proposed by the U.S. and allies. The MB was willing to negotiate. Al-Sisi and the military? Nope. They wanted to kill. They wanted to set off this cycle of violence.

Your excuses for mass murder are disgusting and who the hell are YOU to speak for the people of Egypt? The people of Egypt are divided and its not only about religion.

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:30 AM

20. They don't have as large a following as you seem to believe.

Mursi didn't have a majority in the first round of elections--he got less than 25 percent of the vote, and only about forty percent of eligible voters even showed up to vote--not even a majority of the electorate.

The Egyptian system is one of those free-for-alls, where a zillion candidates can fracture the vote, and then there's a run-off between less than optimal "winners." If you group the two "Islamist" candidates on one team, and the "Secular" candidates on the other, the secular candidates took nearly sixty percent of the votes cast--so, that should tell you something about how the people of Egypt (or at least those who bothered to vote) think.

Many people who voted for Mursi held their nose; they weren't supporting him so much as disliking him less than the other guy. So the idea that Egypt "chose" him is false--he simply was the last man standing in a shitty system that doesn't choose the best candidate.

When he got into power, he pledged to be a humble servant of the people, then wiped his ass on the Constitution and started murdering his enemies.

The military, like it or not--and this is something that is hard for people in the west to understand--is expressing the will of the Egyptian people. They want the MB gone. Sooner beats later.

Your last paragraph tells me that you're invested in outrage, anger and lashing out--and that's your problem, not mine. Rather than getting shitty and personal with me, like that's going to "help," why don't you do a little reading, and learn how the people of Egypt--the vast majority, dealing with this shit--actually feel about the situation? They don't want to return to sanctioned pedophilia and murder in the name of Islam, abrogation of women's rights, and persecution of tens of millions of Copts, shi'as, and other sects in favor of a fundamental Islamic state. Names will never hurt ME, but they do make you look woefully uninformed about the situation on the ground in Egypt, a country I have some familiarity with--and I suspect you do not.

Start here: http://www.npr.org/2013/08/17/212862415/despite-violence-many-egyptians-support-military

Egypt witnessed the bloodiest day in its modern history this week. More than 600 people were killed, most during a security crackdown on supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi.

And it isn't over. Dozens more have died since, some in citizen-on-citizen violence. A standoff is going on at a central Cairo mosque...Much of Egypt has little sympathy for Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood or their supporters....To many here, the Muslim Brotherhood is just a bunch of terrorists. The group propelled Morsi to power through elections last year, and few outside of the pro-Morsi marchers have sympathy for them. It is a narrative that's been, in part, shaped by local TV channels.

....Morsi committed human rights violations during his rule, critics say. He tried to fill the state with his own supporters and exclude others. The bloodbaths today, no matter how horrific, are widely accepted, Akl said.

"We will not necessarily see a civil war, but what we're seeing right now is probably a state of social aggression that the Islamic movement has never known before in Egypt," he says....."The Muslim Brotherhood says they'll burn Egypt if they don't get what they want," Mohammed Badr, the head of the group, told a local station. "But this country is bigger than them."


Read this entire article--snippets cannot do it justice, but it explains quite clearly why the people of Egypt have had enough of Mursi's bullshit:

http://www.alternet.org/world/5-things-you-need-know-about-egypts-new-revolution?paging=off

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Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:14 AM

7. From what I'm reading, there was a deal on the table

 

brokered by the U.S. and some allies to end the sit in in exchange for a pledge by the military of nonviolence against the MB and its supporters. The military rejected it. The MB apparently was willing to accept it.

The military wanted violence and they want to wipe out the MB and its supporters. They knew that the violent attack on the protesters would would serve up violent retaliation. they set the table with friends like the UAE.

Mass slaughter will continue.

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Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:31 AM

11. US credibility 'in tatters' over Egypt crisis

On the streets of Cairo it's not just a fledgling democracy that lies in ruin. US policy too is in tatters - in the eyes of many - or at least America's reputation and credibility.

Since the ouster of Hosni Mubarak in 2011, the US has struggled to strike a balance between support for the tenuous progress towards democracy and protection of its national security interests.

The White House has tried hard to work with whoever is in power in Egypt but has ended up with no friends and little influence in Cairo.

Washington's recent diplomatic efforts in Egypt have failed one after the other. Up until his removal from power, the US tried to counsel Mr Morsi to accept a compromise with the army and the protesters.

>

The US refrained from calling Mr Morsi's removal a coup for fear of upsetting the country's generals and the millions who demanded Mr Morsi's departure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23721918

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:02 PM

21. That story is wrong on almost all counts...

1. We did have 'some' influence over the MB largely because we control the purse strings that kept their gov. going.

2. US interests lie in the Gulf for two big reasons... OIL and IRAN (not Egypt)... Since Camp David, Egypt has pretty much just been the side-show that keeps Israel out of a broader regional conflict. Consequently, the Gulf States hatred of the MB is steering the our foreign policy.

3. With the MB, we only controlled about 1/2 the cards in Cairo... MB was playing games with DC too. Now we hold about 90% of the cards... cards which are tightly controlled in Riyadh and Abu Dhabi.


Shockingly ( ) Egypt still doesn't have a government that can legitimately press for democracy... MB couldn't do it and definitely now the generals can't.

This week was a watershed... the level of violence was horrific. I can really only see two directions now. A second Egyptian revolution with the liberals AND the MB taking to the streets and tossing the generals. Or, something akin to civil war will take root... a slow festering insurgency.


My student who was killed this week covering the MB for her paper was both a democrat and a feminist... thought also a Muslim. She died trying to cover the massacre of the MB. In the ME, the situation is never simple and is almost always analyzed wrong by those 'experts' in the MSM.

Something is afoot in Egypt... the only thing I thing that is sure about it is there will still be more blood.

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Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:32 AM

12. Could be n/t

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Response to malaise (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:35 AM

14. JCMach lived in the region for years.

 

When he speaks on this, I give it weight.

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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:36 AM

15. And could be doesn't? n/t

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Response to malaise (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:39 AM

17. huh?

 

Doubtful. He's credible if you actually read his posts over the years.

Maybe you don't live in Jamaica.

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Response to cali (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:44 AM

18. The birch in Aspen have roots that meet deep under the dead leaves.

(leedoo leedoo leedoo ...)

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Response to cali (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:46 AM

19. ROFL

It's the easier option

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Response to JCMach1 (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:38 AM

16. Looks that way.

An old story really.

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